Universal Health Care

[TheDoctor]

If the government could properly manage it (I doubt a Labour government could) then, hell yeah, privatise everything. None of it has to be so expensive that only the super rich can afford anything. If a government was committed to privatisation they could easily put a cap on the cost of healthcare and education.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, but the current government can't even keep the economy in check so I doubt they could manage privatisation.

 

[Soul Saver]

No way. Privatisation would drive up actual costs, as most companies will want to turn a profit. It will also reduce the quality of care, and divide the care gap even further. Prepare for heavy healthcare advertising and bogus care, as well.

Just look at the US system.

The tax reduction would be outweighed by the personal costs in the long run, and overheads would go right up. Healthcare is not something that should be privatised. Yes, there should be a private medical and education industry as well, but privatisation simply doesn't work as well for some things. State health insurance and some affordable contributory fees would help to reduce taxes, but privatisation would lower the general quality and coverage of healthcare. That's why America spends a larger percentage of its GDP on healthcare than anywhere else, and yet an obscene amount of Americans are uninsured.

Haven't you taken the Hippocratic oath, Mr Doctor?

 

[TheDoctor]

It would only drive up costs if it hadn't been planned well. As I said, the government can put a cap on how much companies can charge for healthcare costs and, if privatisation was the route the government wanted to take, then they'd have to do it right and set the cap at a reasonable price. They could offer some support to the people who needed it most and I mean the really poverty stricken people, not just anyone.

The American system doesn't do very well because it isn't run very well. Such a system needs to be very closely monitored at all times and the current US administration is obviously too busy waging a war on terror and whatnot. The government needs to be committed to change and improvement and I don't think any of the current Western governments are.

As for the Hippocratic Oath, it's outdated and I'm not that kind of Doctor anyway.

 

[Gray Fox]

This is a topic in which I feel very strongly about.
I Highly support universal healthcare.
With no exaggeration, I owe over $500,000 and I am only 21. And that number only started rising 3 years ago at the age of 18.
I am in the hospital quite often, mainly because my stomach is lined with hundreds of bleeding ulcers. Last month I spent a few days in the hospital and that bill itself ran me $45,000 just for a few days.

Outside of hospital bills, my monthly medication runs me around $900 a month and that's me accepting the cheap stuff and totally skipping things I can live without.

So yes, in the end I deeply wish for there to be universal health care. But sadly I do not think it will happen anytime soon here in the US.

 

[Soul Saver]

It would only drive up costs if it hadn't been planned well. As I said, the government can put a cap on how much companies can charge for healthcare costs and, if privatisation was the route the government wanted to take, then they'd have to do it right and set the cap at a reasonable price. They could offer some support to the people who needed it most and I mean the really poverty stricken people, not just anyone.

The American system doesn't do very well because it isn't run very well. Such a system needs to be very closely monitored at all times and the current US administration is obviously too busy waging a war on terror and whatnot. The government needs to be committed to change and improvement and I don't think any of the current Western governments are.

Really now.

Healthcare can be bloody expensive, and low and middle earners will be hard pressed to afford healthcare or private health insurance. True, capping costs would be essential. Price controls are under-used, unfortunately. Ever since the 1970s stagflation, they have been shoved aside. They can, however work wonders if the right prices are controlled correctly.

I don't think that privatisation would solve anything. Investors aren't going to invest if they can't make a profit. This would result in under-coverage. There would not be a universal standard of providing the best treatments, either. Private medical companies most often have a base purpose of turning a profit, whereas public health trusts have the purpose of treating the general public. You would see the priorities of many hospitals shift with privatisation.

It would work much, much better to introduce not-for-profit state health insurance, and introduce minimal, relative contributory fees to go towards the applicable costs. Then taxes might be lowered or spent elsewhere. Privatisation would be regression.
The NHS works well. The problem, I think, is with the overgenerous welfare system, wastage, and junk spending. Excessive bureaucracy, too.

I agree with the last post, as well. It's extortion. People can be driven to bankruptcy through such medical costs.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Yeah right. All sorts of people have to go to the doctors. A fair portion, my arse. The majority of people in this country get state healthcare. You might have worked very hard and exercised frequently, and yet . Genetics.
Hahaha.

Shouldn't be under obligation to pay for others?

Let's see... so you want a private education system? Private healthcare? Let's just do away with most of the state and turn the whole country into a free-for-all, by that logic.


The American system is bull****. A large amount of people are uninsured, through no fault of their own. American healthcare costs are inflated, much more expensive because companies need to turn a profit. Many hard-working people are excluded from healthcare,
through no fault of their own.

I must agree, however, that lazy people who don't want to work, but can, are paid too much in benefits. Thus, they should be given an incentive and push to work. Benefits should be just enough to get by on, and less than you'd earn from working at the minimum wage for say, 30 hours, after taxes. Removing benefits altogether would be counterproductive, and would cause crime levels and the suffering of children to skyrocket.
There should be plenty of jobs to ensure that everyone can get employment.

Granted, some people don't take enough responsibility for their own lives. So, perhaps the healthcare system does need to be reformed. However, it should not be privatised. Rather, perhaps a state health insurance system would work quite well. However, denying healthcare because they can't afford it is inhumane, even if they are on the dole. They still have families which will needlessly suffer.

Hello Piedmon, I'm still waiting for you to pay for mah Ticket!

The American System is NOT <insert bad word here>, thats your opinion, not a fact. Theres facts that claim both systems are flawed. Medicaid is a non-profit organization dedicated to giving those who cant afford healthcare, zomg healthcare! All you do is apply, and you get it, granted its not the amazing solution.

I bolded the part I agree with you on, if there were less restrictions on bussiness's they would do better, and ultimately more jobs would be available, but I don't know the situation in the UK. I do know that in Spain where i went on vacation, and this comes purely from my observations there were very few jobs available.

Im not a rich man, in fact I still got mah bills to pay, but I have healthcare. Not to mention alot of doctors treat people for free anyway. A woman from the UK who i worked with had cancer, she under your system couldn't be treated right away, she was put on a 1 month waiting list. She came here and got treatment right away. Again its all + and -'s. Both systems have their ups and downs.

Micheal Moores claim on CNN that this person wasn't treated because he/she(I forget) had cancer of the pancreas, according to my father who is a Cardiologist, and other medical info, cancer of the pancreas is untreatable. Man I wish I could've been in the crowd behind him and proved him wrong >.

Well, in the mean time I want my ticket! .

- Kuja

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

This is a topic in which I feel very strongly about.
I Highly support universal healthcare.
With no exaggeration, I owe over $500,000 and I am only 21. And that number only started rising 3 years ago at the age of 18.
I am in the hospital quite often, mainly because my stomach is lined with hundreds of bleeding ulcers. Last month I spent a few days in the hospital and that bill itself ran me $45,000 just for a few days.

Outside of hospital bills, my monthly medication runs me around $900 a month and that's me accepting the cheap stuff and totally skipping things I can live without.

So yes, in the end I deeply wish for there to be universal health care. But sadly I do not think it will happen anytime soon here in the US.

I'm sorry to hear that, but..ulcers dont magically grow on their own, could you expand on how they came to be? And no i'm not saying its your fault that they got there , if its something personal, then I respect your right to privacy.

As far as money is concerned you won't be saving any on the UHC system especially if your in the high-income bracket.

And on a side note, Eryth you beat me yet another political thread, gte out of my brain! XD.

- Kuja

 

[Gray Fox]

Ulcers can come about in many ways. Main things doctors claim is it comes from Stress. Well going to the hospital on a weekly bases and getting that bill at the end doesn't help with the stress either.

Other is bacteria. When I was 18 I had bacteria eating away at my stomach, causing cuts, at the same time I was going through stress because I lost my track scholarship because of a broken neck. So the stress caused acid to build up in my stomach. Overbuild of acid + cuts from the bacteria in my stomach caused them to open up worse and for me to bleed out.

Over the years doctors keep blaming it on stress and telling me to chill out, but its quite hard to when every month something new happens, my child died, fiance killed herself after wards, best friend gets shot to death, and so on.

I was on Medicaid for a while, but they sent a package for me to fill out to the wrong address. Because I never got that on time I was kicked off and I cannot get it back. So I am just basically screwed insurance wise and cannot get help no matter where I turn.

Edit: And the kicker, Bush recently passed a rule, where even if you declare bankruptcy, you still have to pay it off...so doing so is quite useless for me now.

 

[Donald Trump]

It's not beyond the realms of possibility, but the current government can't even keep the economy in check so I doubt they could manage privatisation.

Lulz, governments aren't to blame for economy.
Firstly it's more the governor of the Reserve/Federal bank(whichever you have in Britain).
Secondly, it's due to the credit crunch, something that no one in Britain had any control over, there were very few people in the US either. So the government is not at fault. As for rising inflation, that is cost push inflation due to the increasing price of oil, which is due to greatly increased demand from Asian countries. So, no blame for the government.

Also, privatisation with a price ceiling? Olol, not going to happen. How many investors do you think are going to be willing to invest in healthcare when there is a limit on prices? Not many, if any. Also let's adress the maximum price. It still excludes people from healthcare, what's that, some lady who has worked very hard for over 25 years now has a kind of treatable cancer, I'm sorry dear, you are going to die because you can't afford healthcare. Natural selection?
Of course not, it just rewards people that were born with rich parents. It condemns people born to poor parents. It's a regression to Dickensian Britain.

The American system doesn't do very well because it isn't run very well. Such a system needs to be very closely monitored at all times and the current US administration is obviously too busy waging a war on terror and whatnot. The government needs to be committed to change and improvement and I don't think any of the current Western governments are

America, the land of business. "the business of America is business" is what President Calvin Coolidge said.
Do you really think that the UK could do a better job?
Look what happened when then the train system was privatised? Epic fail, and seeing that, you want to privatise healthcare?

Micheal Moores claim on CNN that this person wasn't treated because he/she(I forget) had cancer of the pancreas, according to my father who is a Cardiologist, and other medical info, cancer of the pancreas is untreatable. Man I wish I could've been in the crowd behind him and proved him wrong

It's not often that I agree with Michael Moore, but this time I do. Treatment doesn't have to mean a cure. For people dying, they get to go to hospices. Where they get pumped full of Morphine and die a painless death. Just because someone is dying doesn't mean we should just send them off to their homes to die.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Ulcers can come about in many ways. Main things doctors claim is it comes from Stress. Well going to the hospital on a weekly bases and getting that bill at the end doesn't help with the stress either.

Other is bacteria. When I was 18 I had bacteria eating away at my stomach, causing cuts, at the same time I was going through stress because I lost my track scholarship because of a broken neck. So the stress caused acid to build up in my stomach. Overbuild of acid + cuts from the bacteria in my stomach caused them to open up worse and for me to bleed out.

Over the years doctors keep blaming it on stress and telling me to chill out, but its quite hard to when every month something new happens, my child died, fiance killed herself after wards, best friend gets shot to death, and so on.

I was on Medicaid for a while, but they sent a package for me to fill out to the wrong address. Because I never got that on time I was kicked off and I cannot get it back. So I am just basically screwed insurance wise and cannot get help no matter where I turn.

Edit: And the kicker, Bush recently passed a rule, where even if you declare bankruptcy, you still have to pay it off...so doing so is quite useless for me now.

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope everything works out for you .

It's not often that I agree with Michael Moore, but this time I do. Treatment doesn't have to mean a cure. For people dying, they get to go to hospices. Where they get pumped full of Morphine and die a painless death. Just because someone is dying doesn't mean we should just send them off to their homes to die.

/sigh, Theres a difference between compassion, and moral obligation. I neglected to mention the man who wasn't treated was cuban.

 

[aerocrystal]

Ulcers can come about in many ways. Main things doctors claim is it comes from Stress. Well going to the hospital on a weekly bases and getting that bill at the end doesn't help with the stress either.

Other is bacteria. When I was 18 I had bacteria eating away at my stomach, causing cuts, at the same time I was going through stress because I lost my track scholarship because of a broken neck. So the stress caused acid to build up in my stomach. Overbuild of acid + cuts from the bacteria in my stomach caused them to open up worse and for me to bleed out.

Over the years doctors keep blaming it on stress and telling me to chill out, but its quite hard to when every month something new happens, my child died, fiance killed herself after wards, best friend gets shot to death, and so on.

I was on Medicaid for a while, but they sent a package for me to fill out to the wrong address. Because I never got that on time I was kicked off and I cannot get it back. So I am just basically screwed insurance wise and cannot get help no matter where I turn.

Edit: And the kicker, Bush recently passed a rule, where even if you declare bankruptcy, you still have to pay it off...so doing so is quite useless for me now.

\

Holy crap dude...this is off topic from the debate, but seriously, I hope your luck starts to improve. I would probably have a ton of ulcers too. Perhaps you could try to write to a politician or somebody somewhere with your story? Maybe a news program?

Yeah...I'm starting to think some of these programs are poorly managed. My friend who is really sick right now had the medicaid people fuck up things so he has to reapply and an all sorts of other things. It really makes you wonder...

 

[Megalo]

I live in Holland so I am pretty lucky, we are known for having one of the best health care systems in the world. But I also went to Italy once and I was shocked at how little care was given to the sick and needy, I don't care what numbers say, I have never seen such depression. Sure on TV it might look like this cool vacation destination, but that's a mask for what happens behind the scenes.

 

[Socrates]

Okay, this is a subject about which I feel -very- strongly. I bet most people don't really care, but I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinions.

What does everyone think about universal health care? As you may know, the United States currently does not have universal health care; Europe and Canada do. There are a few politicians who are interested in implementing the universal health care system in America, and probably fashioning it out of the Canadian system.

Personally, I think universal health care fucking sucks. I have a bit of experience with it because my parents are from Quebec. To me, it's like communism-- it looks great on paper, but realistically, it doesn't work very well. While it is true that under universal health care, everyone has access to medical care, the medical care provided is sub par.

(Just as an aside: I don't think President Bush should have vetoed the health care bill that would have provided health care to working class family's children. I think that was a good bill. I'm just against universal health care that would essentially deprivatize the medical industry.)

Agreed, it wouldn't work here since the rich dont pay taxes.

~ Socrates the Great