Square Enix has been disappointing to me for the past few years or so. They promised Type-0 for an international release yet we've not received it or any info as to when it's gonna happen yet. They also promised Versus XIII yet no info as to when it's coming out has been released yet either. Not sure whether or not they've scrapped these ideas but it's getting rediculous to me.
What is going on Square Enix?
- Thread starter FFturn-based80
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Saying that I haven't played other games in the series - LOL. Even if I hadn't, my initial point would still be correct. Everything you're complaining about, that's your opinion. Not fact. "13 doesn't have many fans" - you don't have any evidence to back this up. 6 million sales and 2 million for XIII-2 isn't a lot of people? And if you're going to go the percentage route and claim they're just a small part of the fandom, you still wouldn't be able to claim that's a small group. I never said XIII doesn't have flaws - I think it has a ton, linearity being one of them. But reviews of XIII have NOTHING to do with what I'm saying, which is that Square has always, does, and always will target a teenage audience. Get it through your head that those of us who still like playing FF games in our 20's/30's ARE A MINORITY. That includes game reviewers, that includes the most vocal of the fanbase on sites like this (Forums are much less popular these days, another sign of the times). I'm not playing Devil's advocate, I'm being completely objective and don't let bias sway what I say. From everything you've posted your argument to me is basically "FF SUCKS BECAUSE IT'S NO LONGER WHAT I'M USED TO AND OTHERS AGREE WITH ME SO I'M RIGHT JUST SHUT UP STOP TALKING". Newsflash, maybe I'm not so happy with the series either (I haven't said anything about my own views on it so far), but I know that my opinions are just that, opinions.
You're using your opinions as fact and the fallacious 'others agree with me so you're wrong' argument, and have ignored my warnings against using that in my other posts. Let's get something straight. I'm not arguing XIII is a good or bad game. I'm not going to get into this pathetic 'you're wrong because I'm right' debate that you seem intent on turning it into. The only thing I've ever said from the beginning is that Square targets teenagers, and that the 20+ crowd is no longer that audience. END OF STORY. You haven't shown me any evidence to refute this, you've just been pushing your opinions about XIII.
Here, the proof of my statement. Unfortunately, the source article linked to in that forum has long since been 404'd, but a poster on Neogaf references the same article (from Edge, which also 404'd).
http://z12.invisionfree.com/Final_Fantasy_Ap/index.php?showtopic=2568
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15412905#post15412905(Nirolak's post, end of page)
Yoshinori_Kitase said:
Sure, it's not like ALL new players would suddenly love any game unconditionally. But I'm not arguing whether XIII is good or bad, I just used it as an example of how Square is targeting a younger audience than the 20+ bracket. Their strategy for doing that is up for debate, but it stands to reason that's what they're doing, and it falls in line with Japan's cultural expectations that people outgrow 'childish' things, of which video games are considered one (and again, this is changing gradually).
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black_eclipse
Ex-Soldier
Whether the game is good or bad was not the point. I'm just telling that many gamers today would prefer more action packed games than Final Fantasy. And not to be rude to younger guys ,but they want a simple gameplay. I think the mechanics of FF was ummmm..... complicated for them?
I remember playing FFVII on the mall. My classmate saw me and he was like "WTF are you playing? That look stupid!". He doesn't understand the mechanics so he just consider it lame. Some of newbies would get lost in the mechanics. Even I did when I was new to the series. I just mash the attack command and never use healing items and magics. Then I read the tutorials and finally understands it.
Another problem was they most gamers around that age don't want to read text (or listen to a lengthy conversation for this gen.). Sure, you can now skip the cutscene but you might miss something if you did. Some mission objectives and such or plot developments.
Tell what are the numbers of Shooters and action gamers compared to RPG's today. That explains everything. And about the sales you are talking about, XIII was just riding the pine of success of the previous FF's. The reason it sales much was because of marketing. I'm sure demographics has nothing to do with it. I'm also sure many who bought XIII and XIII-2 are disappointed and made them skeptical for the next FF title.
Sales =/= fanbase
Gamers are widely spread and there are all kinds. It isn't fair to say 'gamers want action now' or 'they want simple' - that's just too wide of a generalization. Yeah, using sales is fallacious and I shouldn't have made the assumption that sales equate to fans, but the XIII fanbase is not small by any measure. Demographics does have to do with XIII's sales, even if it was riding off the name - every game has a target demographic. From all the posts here it seems like people think I'm some sort of Square apologist, but I'm not - I'm just offering an explanation for why perhaps many are no longer into FF or its newer iterations. Obviously it's not the only reason, but growing out of it is a factor. I just refuse to throw out negative or positive connotations about Square, because I want to remain neutral and I will not jump on a hate bandwagon or a hype train or whatever fanboy/hater label flies around the internet. Non-negative post about Square or FF =/= positive. I was actually just trying to be informative, but apparently that information rubbed people the wrong way.
black_eclipse
Ex-Soldier
Believe it or not, majority of gamers today wants an action-packed games and it's evident on what I see in game centers. People play Call of Duty, Resident Evil, God of War, etc. but you can rarely see guys who play Tales of Xilia, Xenoblade Chronicles or Last Story.
Even if they had a target demographics, the older generation still have something to do with the sales. I'm sure many who bought XIII was already a FF fan before playing it. They may have attract new audience but the old fanbase was still part of the sales.
The fanbase is not black and white. There's a graduation between old and new fans, more like a sliding scale than a yes/no option, and there are subdivisions for fans of each entry in the series. Yes I know that many who were familiar with FF bought XIII - that wasn't something I was arguing against, never did I say that all (or even a majority) of XIII's sales are from newer players - I just said that it was aimed at a specific age group (which is a demographic). There was an uproar among older players when VII released, but it attracted new players. There was an uproar when X released, but it attracted new players. XII did it as well, and it's only been recently that the tirade of hate has come to a shockingly near-stop and the game is getting praise now. I remember quite clearly my time on these forums in 2009, when hate about XII was spewed vehemently and showed up in topics that weren't even related to the game.
No, the majority of gamers today are not just CoD types. There are all kinds, from facebook farmville gamers (yes, they are gamers) to FPS to tactical shooters to action games to SRPG to RPG to RTS to fighting games to puzzlers. It is possible to like more than one genre of games. RPGs have declined in popularity not just because 'gamers are simple and want CoD now', there are many factors that come into play and I'm not willing to get into that debate right now.
black_eclipse
Ex-Soldier
Yes, the hate with the new games is not new and i'm used to it. I can understand the hate of XIII because even XII was much superior to it when it comes to content. XI and XIV are hated because not all can play online games and have to pay for monthly subscription (I'm one of them). The system will never change: Make a new game = attracts/detracts old/new audience.
Unless you can play facebook games on consoles , i'm not ready to name it hardcore gaming. I might consider angry birds or plants vs zombies since they are playable on consoles. Okay, it might not be action-packed, but the gameplay is simple compared to Final Fantasy or other RPGs. Like I said, gamers today would prefer simple games rather than a complex ones. It's not difficult to learn how to shoot in shooter games. It's not difficult to learn how to smash your opponents in HnS games.
Yeah, facebook/mobile games aren't hardcore (we really need a new set of distinctions for hardcore/casual...). The people who play them are technically gamers though, albeit I can't have a conversation with someone who only plays mobile games because we have literally nothing in common to talk about gaming-wise >_>;;
We could have a long discussion about simple vs complex game design (and I don't necessarily disagree with you), but I'm about pooped after this thread.
you only play devils advocate. Gaining newer fans was never that difficult. Im sorry but youre wrong. For one, how will SE know what the new fans want?
Youre not correct because you only state the obvious but thats not the reason why older fans are turned off. You say i have no proof of 13 not having many fans but do you need evidence? Shall i count the millions of rage posts? The first time ff players review?
Do you have proof that its indeed the older fans that dont like the new way of making games? You werent just saying Final Fantasy is targetting new audience but thats the reason older fans dont like it?
Things changed from 12 and i personally welcomed it. But theres a bigger reason why the fans dont like it.
All im saying what we see now isnt because of target audience. If they did, it wouldve been alot more action oriented.
The audience is people who like RPGs. Which is alot more specific. SE changed to gain new audience which wasnt that big. But the problem is now that they focused on fining new audience and not realizing they were already getting younger audience.
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Wrong about what? My only point has been that Square targets a specific age group and people will grow out of it which causes a generation gap, which you have yet to even try to counter, only dodging (yeah, you say it's 'obvious' now, yet you continue to argue) and accusing me of shit I haven't said. Did I ever say that SE knows what its new fans want? No. Did I ever say it's just the older fans that don't like the new style? No. Did I say FF targeting a new audience is THE reason older fans don't like it now? No. Did I say anything about getting new fans to be difficult? No.
Did I say that everything that changed from XII to XIII is because of target audience? No. That was part of square's design for the game, of which yes they were targeting teenagers (and I believe XII was aimed a bit older, but that's debate-able), but they've always targeted a young audience regardless. Millions of rage posts and reviews - what does that have to do with anything about what I've been saying? I've said time and again that I'm perfectly aware that XIII is flawed and has many detractors, and I'm not defending it because that isn't what I'm arguing, but you keep trying to paint me as a defender. Regardless of how you spin it, XIII does have a large fan base, and just because they don't make 'millions' of posts proclaiming their love for it online doesn't mean they're small. FF becoming action-oriented - for what, because Square is appealing to teenagers like always?
It seems to me you don't even understand what you're arguing against, you seem to think I'm saying SE changed FF because they've abandoned their 'old' fans for their 'new' fans, which is not what I've said at all. The audience is people who play RPGs yeah. A SPECIFIC AGE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO PLAY RPGS. Read the quote from Kitase I posted above. If all you can say about that is that it's 'obvious', then you have no argument. I am not debating whether XIII is good/bad. I am not debating whether the current generation of players is good/bad. I am not debating XIII anything.
Enough. Im not gonna respond to everything because you already said what was wrong. I cant possibly quote that and give specific answers to it all but i know what you were saying. Im not saying SE abandoned their old fans but you sure as heck are saying the reasons why we dont enjoy them is because their targeted to a younger demographic that we apparently outgrew. So rather kitase is saying is that he wants to broaden it, so age may play a significant role but not just age is what he's referring to.
The reason why we see games like ff13 isnt because of demographic and targeted for younger audience. Though yes that was one of their intentions its not the sole key reason.
Read what you initially posted. Up until recently the discussion was getting more shallow because you refused to elaborate but even then you changed your opinion to being more nuetral.
The reason why we see games like ff13 isnt because of demographic and targeted for younger audience. Though yes that was one of their intentions its not the sole key reason.
Read what you initially posted. Up until recently the discussion was getting more shallow because you refused to elaborate but even then you changed your opinion to being more nuetral.
Yes, I'm saying Square has always targeted the teenage group and that outgrowing this group is a factor in not liking the newer games since we didn't grow up with them and are more critical. I never said it was the only reason. Note that I said 'may alienate', not 'this is THE reason'. Re-read Kitase's quote again - he never says he wants to broaden the audience. He said specifically that he wants to keep focus on the young generation. Yes, age IS what he's talking about. As for XIII, re-read what I said right there, in my first post - it went back to targeting the young audience as I believed XII was targeted a bit older, but even before that Square has ALWAYS marketed to the teens. The rest of XIII's design was up to the development team and I am not arguing that, and never have.
Now look at my first post another time - how the f*** did you think I was anything BUT neutral? Getting more shallow? I've been elaborating the whole damn time, I've stated my point over and over and given plenty of explanation, even including the source that I based it off, it has never changed. The one ignoring all of that and continuously asserting their own opinions as fact, shoving words in my mouth and pigeonholing me into some apologist for Square and XIII is you, not me. You misinterpreted my first post and then started this whole nonsense with 'That's not the case. Otherwise Mario would be an FPS' which makes absolutely NO sense when juxtaposed against what I typed, and now you're claiming 'oh NOW you're neutral!' as if I haven't been from the start. Seriously man, what the hell?
EDIT: Looking back, I did say that people outgrew FF 'precisely' because it changed for the new generation, so in that comment I can be called out on not being consistent. I should have said that the changes in FF from what we grew up with were what made us detach from it, not that it changed for new players.
EDIT2: Look dude, I'm open to the possibility that I could be wrong. I like to debate (a lot, probably more than is healthy). I was civil right up until the 'You're DEAD WRONG', and it just escalated. I admit I'm not the best at controlling my temper when I perceive a slight. Right now I don't even know what you're trying to argue, or what your own theory about Square is.
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Ramen noodles, rotfl.
Dontcha like it when people squabble ?
I've pretty much given up on FF and Square.
I don't believe the games are made to appeal so much to a younger audience as it is that Toriyama and Kitase have their own vision that in many ways runs counter to what the vision was when Sakaguichi and Matsuno were the prime movers at Square.
What may seem juvenile and unbalanced to us now is evidently fine to Toriyama and Kitase and as long as their bosses are satisfied with their performance and the game sells well in Japan and Asia then our opnions here in the west don't matter to them.
So for those of us who are older and started out way back when it seems to be time for us to move on to other rpg companies and other IPs.
CD Projekt Stuff and Bioware and Project Eternity and so on and so forth.
Sad as that may seem.
Dontcha like it when people squabble ?
I've pretty much given up on FF and Square.
I don't believe the games are made to appeal so much to a younger audience as it is that Toriyama and Kitase have their own vision that in many ways runs counter to what the vision was when Sakaguichi and Matsuno were the prime movers at Square.
What may seem juvenile and unbalanced to us now is evidently fine to Toriyama and Kitase and as long as their bosses are satisfied with their performance and the game sells well in Japan and Asia then our opnions here in the west don't matter to them.
So for those of us who are older and started out way back when it seems to be time for us to move on to other rpg companies and other IPs.
CD Projekt Stuff and Bioware and Project Eternity and so on and so forth.
Sad as that may seem.
I feel pretty bad now that I look back on it >______> not proud. I didn't intend for my theory to run counter to other beliefs. I agree with you on Japan...they're the primary market, not us, and that may have more to do with FF not being well-received here with recent entries than what I posted. I don't know much about what the popular preferences for RPGs are over there, though, so I can't make any claims on that.
JCE3000GT
Chocobo Breeder
[mindless rant]
I would be at least accepting of the new style-Final Fantasy games if Square aka SQUEENIX (what I refer to them now as) would actually produce quality RPG's for people that aren't obsessed with social media, tablets/phones, and flashy play-it-for-me style games (aka any FF for the PS2/PS3/XBOX360). The average "gamer" now is in their late teens through mid 20's. The average "console gamer" is more like late 20's to mid/late 30's. I don't want my RPG to be played for me, have obsessive amounts of cut scenes (text will do!), and the unfortunate habit of stuff too much fluff and gimmicks. While I love FF12 overall it is quite the exception for my opinion. It has just enough substance to have me love it. Now FF's 6 through 13 minus 12 have not been something I consistently liked. FF8 was good enough for me to like it but way too easy--way way too easy. FF7 was a crock then and a crock now. FF9 bored me to tears so bad I never played it past ~5 hours. FF10 made me want to throw-up. FF11 doesn't count because it was an MMORPG--so I give it a pass. FF13, I cannot even begin to tell you how much I hate this game already even after only seeing a couple of hours. The battle system, characters, and story line are annoying. FF6 was mostly ok, I just didn't like half of the characters and I hated the cookie-cutter style character stat and magic growth that it introduced. Everyone was the bloody same with a different graphical skin.
Sad thing is Square had winning formulas with several RPGs released during and after the SNES/SFC. Hell with the way things are now they could just contract TOSE to remake those old jRPG's that were on the Japanese Super Famicom that never made it to English. Square would make a killing without having to really do any work.
Old people like me (who still do exist BTW Square!) that prefer a more traditional jRPG or at least something that is designed with more strategy, thought-provoking puzzles, and the actual use of "classes" for the characters rather than making everyone the same ass statistical engine with a different name and visual skin added are still out there. Games are not being made for us--and there is a market for games to be made for us. The greatest thing is, it wouldn't take much to please us. Right now I'm surviving my famine off of remakes and playing the originals. This is why I modify games and have been for 15 years. New games suck, and unfortunately with the proliferation of the iPhone and now android gaming will NEVER be the same. It has and will continue to get worse.
I pray every day for another gaming crash like we had in the 80's.
[/mindless rant]
I would be at least accepting of the new style-Final Fantasy games if Square aka SQUEENIX (what I refer to them now as) would actually produce quality RPG's for people that aren't obsessed with social media, tablets/phones, and flashy play-it-for-me style games (aka any FF for the PS2/PS3/XBOX360). The average "gamer" now is in their late teens through mid 20's. The average "console gamer" is more like late 20's to mid/late 30's. I don't want my RPG to be played for me, have obsessive amounts of cut scenes (text will do!), and the unfortunate habit of stuff too much fluff and gimmicks. While I love FF12 overall it is quite the exception for my opinion. It has just enough substance to have me love it. Now FF's 6 through 13 minus 12 have not been something I consistently liked. FF8 was good enough for me to like it but way too easy--way way too easy. FF7 was a crock then and a crock now. FF9 bored me to tears so bad I never played it past ~5 hours. FF10 made me want to throw-up. FF11 doesn't count because it was an MMORPG--so I give it a pass. FF13, I cannot even begin to tell you how much I hate this game already even after only seeing a couple of hours. The battle system, characters, and story line are annoying. FF6 was mostly ok, I just didn't like half of the characters and I hated the cookie-cutter style character stat and magic growth that it introduced. Everyone was the bloody same with a different graphical skin.
Sad thing is Square had winning formulas with several RPGs released during and after the SNES/SFC. Hell with the way things are now they could just contract TOSE to remake those old jRPG's that were on the Japanese Super Famicom that never made it to English. Square would make a killing without having to really do any work.
Old people like me (who still do exist BTW Square!) that prefer a more traditional jRPG or at least something that is designed with more strategy, thought-provoking puzzles, and the actual use of "classes" for the characters rather than making everyone the same ass statistical engine with a different name and visual skin added are still out there. Games are not being made for us--and there is a market for games to be made for us. The greatest thing is, it wouldn't take much to please us. Right now I'm surviving my famine off of remakes and playing the originals. This is why I modify games and have been for 15 years. New games suck, and unfortunately with the proliferation of the iPhone and now android gaming will NEVER be the same. It has and will continue to get worse.
I pray every day for another gaming crash like we had in the 80's.
[/mindless rant]
black_eclipse
Ex-Soldier
Oh please. Only ffvii fans wants the remake. SE should give way to other classic titles not coming from the 3d era.
I-IV already have a remake. Its time for V and VI to have one. They already milked VII to death. Time to give it a rest.
I-IV already have a remake. Its time for V and VI to have one. They already milked VII to death. Time to give it a rest.
ConZa
Other Son of Jecht
UUGH... I wish i wasn't reading this thread... then I wouldn't have to join in. :s
A. "SQUEENIX" Does produce quality RPG's. Just not in your opinion, or the opinion of lots of other Final Fantasy Fan's... Because it completely different. SQUEENIX (I'm liking this name) are trying to change the Final Fantasy franchise and they have been since FFX (i'll get to your disliking of FFX later...). Every game after IX has been extremely different to the previous games. All of them have had their own unique battle system. All of them have done just as well if not better in terms of sales as the past games. And EVERY ONE OF THEM is a good game in their own right (Cept X-2.... that was shite).
Can't agree with this. I know too many people my age that don't game, and too few that do. I agree with the majority of what Tmoo has said and you guys are taking what he said out of context. I think the average gamer would range from early teens (13-14) to early 20's (what else do highschool kids do? THEY PLAY GAMES
)
Your.... OVERLY biased opinion. Just because the game tries to control stuff for you does mean that the game is being "played" for you. I don't know how to approach the next point....... text will do..... wtf. I have no problem with text to let me know what's up, but why would a game fore go the use of the amazing graphical advancements since times when they couldn't make good cutscenes so that the player can read, instead of watch. Please tell me why you think they should use text AND NOT cutscenes.
You've gone and pissed me off here. I know this is a mindless rant, but I'm thinking that you may in fact, be mindless. Something you consistently liked. Way way too easy. why keep going? you were fine there. FF7... a crock? one of the best games ever made.. I could link you top lots of top (some random number) lists and FFVII would be on most of them. FF9 another one I see on many best games ever made lists. FF10... ITS AMAZING. I don't have anything to back this up with.. it's just my personal favourite (I wish I had something).
FFXIII, Theres nothing wrong with the battle system, a little bit wrong with the characters and the story is just kinda weird but still good. The only thing that I can see the battle system benefiting from is a touch up in terms of the way the auto-battle options works. For example when you're using a COM with good physical attack and a certain enemy is weak against fire why does it use both the physical fire attack and the magical one (or maybe it's like that with a RAV, I can't remember. It was a fair while ago).
The characters for the most part were just like any other Final Fantasy, they had lots of problems. Lightning was struggling with the fact that she used to belong to the people she was fighting against and the world that she used to help protect was now against her and they were out in force to put a stop to her existence, adn then theres her sister and snow and having to "mother" Hope. Snow was trying to be strong for everyone sake and had to leave behind the resistance (and all of the people he felt he needed to protect to save his fiancee). I cant actually remember hope's story. at all. I liked hope though and I'm pretty sure lots of people hate him because he's annoying, but basically he's trying to mature and become strong so that he can protect everyone like snow does, but then snow betrays him somehow (again can't remember). Vanille and Fang are trying to find out what on earth they're purpose is and there's a whole heap of vanille/Sazh side story that I've forgotten. And Sazh has to get his son back, not only because he love him but for his wife's sake or something. I can barely remember much about the character development in game but i managed to get all of that. not bad for shitty characters aye?
Not a proper sentence, but if it was I would reply with something like: XIII-2 had thought provoking puzzles............ I'm kidding, chill. But seriously, If you're referring to XII and XIII (I say those two because I don't know about IX and X had nothing like that. VII and VIII had materia and the junction thing which gave people spells but some characters were CLEARLY better suited than others for certain materia etc.) then in terms of "classes" or "roles", the entire point of the newer game. More freedom. They might not give you freedom to go where you please as is the case in XIII but you can build your characters and your team how you please.
You would've been like 3. Don't talk about it like you were there.
Apologies if I seem like a dick but you make no sense and you sound (to me, at least) like you are trying to tell everyone the facts, when your just saying your own biased opinions. No matter what Square does they are ALWAYS going to piss people off. As is the case with EVERY gaming company on the planet. So really.... the only right decisions that they can make are one that make them money (within reason... obviously).
A. "SQUEENIX" Does produce quality RPG's. Just not in your opinion, or the opinion of lots of other Final Fantasy Fan's... Because it completely different. SQUEENIX (I'm liking this name) are trying to change the Final Fantasy franchise and they have been since FFX (i'll get to your disliking of FFX later...). Every game after IX has been extremely different to the previous games. All of them have had their own unique battle system. All of them have done just as well if not better in terms of sales as the past games. And EVERY ONE OF THEM is a good game in their own right (Cept X-2.... that was shite).
Can't agree with this. I know too many people my age that don't game, and too few that do. I agree with the majority of what Tmoo has said and you guys are taking what he said out of context. I think the average gamer would range from early teens (13-14) to early 20's (what else do highschool kids do? THEY PLAY GAMES
)Your.... OVERLY biased opinion. Just because the game tries to control stuff for you does mean that the game is being "played" for you. I don't know how to approach the next point....... text will do..... wtf. I have no problem with text to let me know what's up, but why would a game fore go the use of the amazing graphical advancements since times when they couldn't make good cutscenes so that the player can read, instead of watch. Please tell me why you think they should use text AND NOT cutscenes.
You've gone and pissed me off here. I know this is a mindless rant, but I'm thinking that you may in fact, be mindless. Something you consistently liked. Way way too easy. why keep going? you were fine there. FF7... a crock? one of the best games ever made.. I could link you top lots of top (some random number) lists and FFVII would be on most of them. FF9 another one I see on many best games ever made lists. FF10... ITS AMAZING. I don't have anything to back this up with.. it's just my personal favourite (I wish I had something).
FFXIII, Theres nothing wrong with the battle system, a little bit wrong with the characters and the story is just kinda weird but still good. The only thing that I can see the battle system benefiting from is a touch up in terms of the way the auto-battle options works. For example when you're using a COM with good physical attack and a certain enemy is weak against fire why does it use both the physical fire attack and the magical one (or maybe it's like that with a RAV, I can't remember. It was a fair while ago).
The characters for the most part were just like any other Final Fantasy, they had lots of problems. Lightning was struggling with the fact that she used to belong to the people she was fighting against and the world that she used to help protect was now against her and they were out in force to put a stop to her existence, adn then theres her sister and snow and having to "mother" Hope. Snow was trying to be strong for everyone sake and had to leave behind the resistance (and all of the people he felt he needed to protect to save his fiancee). I cant actually remember hope's story. at all. I liked hope though and I'm pretty sure lots of people hate him because he's annoying, but basically he's trying to mature and become strong so that he can protect everyone like snow does, but then snow betrays him somehow (again can't remember). Vanille and Fang are trying to find out what on earth they're purpose is and there's a whole heap of vanille/Sazh side story that I've forgotten. And Sazh has to get his son back, not only because he love him but for his wife's sake or something. I can barely remember much about the character development in game but i managed to get all of that. not bad for shitty characters aye?
Not a proper sentence, but if it was I would reply with something like: XIII-2 had thought provoking puzzles............ I'm kidding, chill. But seriously, If you're referring to XII and XIII (I say those two because I don't know about IX and X had nothing like that. VII and VIII had materia and the junction thing which gave people spells but some characters were CLEARLY better suited than others for certain materia etc.) then in terms of "classes" or "roles", the entire point of the newer game. More freedom. They might not give you freedom to go where you please as is the case in XIII but you can build your characters and your team how you please.
You would've been like 3. Don't talk about it like you were there.
Apologies if I seem like a dick but you make no sense and you sound (to me, at least) like you are trying to tell everyone the facts, when your just saying your own biased opinions. No matter what Square does they are ALWAYS going to piss people off. As is the case with EVERY gaming company on the planet. So really.... the only right decisions that they can make are one that make them money (within reason... obviously).
kratoscar2008
Final Master
Im with you TC i want Turn Based goodness again, SE has kingdom Hearts and the Star Ocean series for that. I dont know where people got that an action based gameplay is the future of RPGs, FFX and to a lesser extent FFXII showed the turn based gameplay can be reinvented. SMT3 Nocturne has a great turn based system with lot of depth and strategy, so there is no excuse to use Action gameplay appart for being flashy.
As what happened with FF? Well SE run out of ideas.
As what happened with FF? Well SE run out of ideas.
black_eclipse
Ex-Soldier
As good as SMT are, it never rivaled the popularity of FF. Ask many gamers about RPG games and the first thing on their mind will be FF. And how old is Nocture? It's 8 years old already. Not that new of a game. I prefer that you use Persona 3 or 4 as an example.
As much as I love the turn-based system, it has to go now. XII isn't really a turn-based, it's more of a MMO style of play. We, the JRPG fans will always love the turn base but I think the SE is targeting the casual audience to broaden up the sales.
And as for newer generations, like I always say, prefer flashy, action-packed, fast paced games. Hate it or love it, they now dominate today's gaming population. Look at Skyrim, it have those shooter games vibe with that first/third person view. I even heard that the next FF is heading towards that direction.
Go to gaming centers and see what I mean. Go find a gamers that plays JRPG and you will find few to none. It's not that JRPG's quality is going downhill, it's just a matter of taste. Fast paced or slow one? And this generation prefers the former.