Which FF villain/villainess is the strongest?

[ACardAttack]

I have to go Kefka, what ever he did, by the time he got to the end, he was the only villain who was strong enough to reach his goal

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which would be becoming a god, and he also destroyed the world while he was at it

, and did have some very good magic at the end. Also he was the smartest, and when you combine that with his magical skills, he is top notch.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

Sephiroth is a villain for only a few short hours before being defeated originally, then he returns for a relatively short time before being defeated again, and then he returns for a few more hours before being sent back again.

Although persistent, Sephiroth doesn't actually stay around long enough for me to consider him the strongest villain. Now if he continues this for thousands of years and actually manages to stay around for months to years on end, then he would be the most fearsome and strongest villain.

I'm not saying that Sephiroth is the strongest villain, but he's definitely more powerful than Sin. Remember Sin was being fought by people who never really tried to stop it forever because they thought it was impossible, and he fought much weaker foes. Sephiroth was first taken down by someone with the power of an elite 1st class SOLDIER and a man with the power of Chaos within him, and later was only defeated because he was too arrogant to take his opponent seriously.

And considering that the link from VII and X has yet to be developed aside from a brief acknowledgment that it exists, I would hold off on any "best/strongest/weakest in the universe" arguments until that link is actually explored. Who knows, maybe the creators would find a link between Yevon and Jenova/Sephiroth. So until more is known about how that universe actually works... I'll stick with Sin as the most powerful villain.

The details aren't of any consequence here, we know that they occur in the same universe and that Sephiroth is he most powerful thing in that universe, meaning Sephiroth > Sin.

Besides, for all its years roving about, all Si.n ever did was take out some buildings. It had to go into overdrive to do anything more than that, and even then all it did was make some big craters. Sephiroth, on the other hand, was a threat to the entire planet, and later other planets he'd travel to, despite only being around for a few months each time. Heck, looking at other villains' accomplishments makes Sin look pretty weak comparatively.

Ultimecia and Exdeath were threats to not just their planet, not just their universe, but all of existence throughout all universes. Sin can't even destroy its own planet.

Kefka became a literal god, ruined the world overnight, and ruled as he saw fit for one year. He accomplished far more than Sin in 1/1000th of the time.

Sephiroth is a human/Jenova hybrid and was absorbing all of the planets power, making himself more powerful than even Chaos or Omega, planet destroying entities.

Cloud of Darkness was capable of returning the world of FF III into nothingness.

Kuja glassed the surface of a planet in the span of less than an hour.

Emperor Mateus conquered hell and became its ruler, as well as becoming a powerful being in heaven.

Zeromus was the embodiment of pure hatred, incapable of being destroyed permanently.

Sin ranks above villains like Garland or Golbez, but he just doesn't have the powerset or feats to put him anywhere near the top of the list.

 

[The Crystal]

I really don't know who is the strongest.
Ultimecia was absorbing the universe, and after finishing it she would have all of it's power. But Neo-ExDeath was going to destroy the universe, implying that he was "stronger" than the universe, if you understand what I mean.
But then, Neo-ExDeath isn't the real Ex-Death, just the incarnation of the Void. Problem is... Cloud of Darkness is the incarnation of the Void too, so shouldn't she/it be equal to Neo-ExDeath?
Then we have Mateus. Most villains were killed and went to hell, never returning again. But Mateus was so powerful, that he conquered Hell... With just a half of his soul. And the other half conquered Heaven. That made him the Devil and God of his universe.
Kuja was very powerful too. He was able to open a portal to the dimension where all life started in the universe, and was going to destroy the Crystal of Life.

It's hard to decide who is the strongest.

Also he was the smartest, and when you combine that with his magical skills, he is top notch.

Kefka wasn't smart at all. If Ghestal wasn't there telling everything he needed to do, to take power of the Espers and reach the Floating Continent later, Kefka would never been succeessful.

 

[CHIP]

I'm not saying that Sephiroth is the strongest villain, but he's definitely more powerful than Sin. Remember Sin was being fought by people who never really tried to stop it forever because they thought it was impossible, and he fought much weaker foes.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Sephiroth can summon entire planets to drop on your head, what on God’s green earth could be better than that? Let’s not forget that when Cloud defeated Sephiroth he hadn’t fully completed his transformation into a demi-God. So, just imagine how powerful Sephiroth would have become if he had completed the transformation. Basically, he would have been unstoppable! Sin was just an angry lumbering over-sized whale. Powerfull? Pfft.

 

[ACardAttack]

Kefka wasn't smart at all. If Ghestal wasn't there telling everything he needed to do, to take power of the Espers and reach the Floating Continent later, Kefka would never been succeessful.

Dont know where you got that impression, but Kefka was always scheming...sure he attacked what he was told to, but behind Ghestal was attacking towns and draining the power of Espers that if my memory serves me correctly were suppose to be used by the empire, Ghestal had no idea that Kefka was building up all this power for himself

 

[The Crystal]

Dont know where you got that impression, but Kefka was always scheming...sure he attacked what he was told to, but behind Ghestal was attacking towns and draining the power of Espers that if my memory serves me correctly were suppose to be used by the empire, Ghestal had no idea that Kefka was building up all this power for himself

IIRC Kefka drained the Esper's powers, in front of imperial soldiers. That means Ghestal knew.
And even if Ghestal didn't know, so what? Kefka is smart because he killed some people and Espers, when no one was looking? Don't make me laugh!

All FF villains have some plan to reach power, and most of them manipulate other people to achieve it.
Kefka's "plan" on the other hand, was to wait for Ghestal to lead him to the Floating Continent, and betray him in the last second.

Kefka just killed people for fun. Ghestal was the mastermind planning everything(he was the one who told Kefka to let Terra ally with the Returners in order to have them open the gate, he was the one who had Kefka imprisoned as a ploy to earn the trust of the Returners, and etc).

 

[Dionysos]

IIRC Kefka drained the Esper's powers, in front of imperial soldiers. That means Ghestal knew.
And even if Ghestal didn't know, so what? Kefka is smart because he killed some people and Espers, when no one was looking? Don't make me laugh!

All FF villains have some plan to reach power, and most of them manipulate other people to achieve it.
Kefka's "plan" on the other hand, was to wait for Ghestal to lead him to the Floating Continent, and betray him in the last second.

Kefka just killed people for fun. Ghestal was the mastermind planning everything(he was the one who told Kefka to let Terra ally with the Returners in order to have them open the gate, he was the one who had Kefka imprisoned as a ploy to earn the trust of the Returners, and etc).

This isn't a debate about their intelligence though... It's about how strong they are.
And I wouldn't say Kefka was stupid, but he was insane. He was ran by more than logic. He used other peoples plans, and at the last second turned them around to his favour, so much so that you suddenly were unsure if they were part of his plan or not. But that is the beauty of Kefka. Why he is unique in the FF universe, and he actually gets more character development than any other villain.

Anyway, back on topic... Strongest? That is tough. I can tell you all that Sin isn't a patch on most FF villains though. Kefka, Ultimecia, Ex-Death and dare I say it Sephiroth would have defeated Sin at relative ease.

I'd go with Ex-Death perhaps... Though he never learned to control the Void which he had access to. The potential he had, however, would have been phenomenal.

But Kefka was powerful too... Very powerful... I could cheat here and go by number of people killed alone, but I shan't do that as it would reach the millions! But the power Kefka gained,

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supreme magical capabilities and the ability to smite whole towns

that pee'd him off was a lot more than Sephiroth ever attained....

Sephiroth spent his days (following Nibelheim)

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stuck underground manipulating his mothers headless corpse and killing a flower girl

... Still, something to put on his CV I suppose.

 

[Busta]

Ex-Death gets my vote.

Sure you can look at these villains who destroy numerous towns, burn them down, rain fire from the god's eyeballs, and turn characters into Popsicles with the snap of their fingers, but what Ex-Death did was so much more.

He took any little village or big city, and simply for rid of it. It went into The Void, and it wasn't coming back. he left no chance for re-building or reconstruction; he simply "got rid of it".

 

[Zeromus]

Must I address this Kefka thing again?

Kefka did not

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destroy the world with his own power.

Again, he

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moved the Warring Triad statues out of their perfect alignment,

which anyone could do if they got the opportunity. As for power: He was

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smiting whole towns. Yes, but how big are they? They're quite small.

Not too impressive in all honesty...

 

[Dionysos]

Must I address this Kefka thing again?

Kefka did not

Spoiler

destroy the world with his own power.

Again, he

Spoiler

moved the Warring Triad statues out of their perfect alignment,

which anyone could do if they got the opportunity. As for power: He was

Spoiler

smiting whole towns. Yes, but how big are they? They're quite small.

Not too impressive in all honesty...

Well if you want to cast aside pre-WOR Kefka... What he achieved in the game WITHOUT

Spoiler

the warring triad

was still an achievment.

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Burning castles, poisoning whole water supplies, killing 10+ Espers in one go without breath (while laughing his head off!), suprise killing many people, including Gestahl.

I could equally apply this to Ex-Death. Without the powers of the void, he'd be less of a threat. Hell, he'd probably

Spoiler

be burned as firewood

eventually.

But Kefka DID gain

Spoiler

control of the statues

. He DID gain their power. It's unfair to imagine him not, as he DID do it! It might not have been his power originally, but he DID gain it after moving them, and hence the power became his own to utilise.

And not anybody could move them given the opportunity either...

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The empire had to work really hard to gain access to them. They had to access the land of the Espers in order to raise the floating continent and gain access to the statues

. Wandering Jim couldn't do that!

I think size of town is irrelevant really. Town smiting wasn't the worst that Kefka inflicted. That was mere firework displays in comparison to the long term damage that he inflicted... The millions that would have died by his actions. Take the small island

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Celes and Cid were on as an example, there were a small group of survivors on that island, many died, went mad and commited suicide, others got sick and died, and only Celes remained.

Multiply those effects to the whole world. The world was ruined. Wrecked.

 

[Zeromus]

Well if you want to cast aside pre-WOR Kefka... What he achieved in the game WITHOUT

Spoiler

the warring triad

was still an achievment.

Spoiler

Burning castles, poisoning whole water supplies, killing 10+ Espers in one go without breath (while laughing his head off!), suprise killing many people, including Gestahl.

I could equally apply this to Ex-Death. Without the powers of the void, he'd be less of a threat. Hell, he'd probably

Spoiler

be burned as firewood

eventually.

But Kefka DID gain

Spoiler

control of the statues

. He DID gain their power. It's unfair to imagine him not, as he DID do it! It might not have been his power originally, but he DID gain it after moving them, and hence the power became his own to utilise.

And not anybody could move them given the opportunity either...

Spoiler

The empire had to work really hard to gain access to them. They had to access the land of the Espers in order to raise the floating continent and gain access to the statues

. Wandering Jim couldn't do that!

I think size of town is irrelevant really. Town smiting wasn't the worst that Kefka inflicted. That was mere firework displays in comparison to the long term damage that he inflicted... The millions that would have died by his actions. Take the small island

Spoiler

Celes and Cid were on as an example, there were a small group of survivors on that island, many died, went mad and commited suicide, others got sick and died, and only Celes remained.

Multiply those effects to the whole world. The world was ruined. Wrecked.

But uh, isn't this a thread about the power of these villans? I said anyone could

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move the Warriang Triand

if they got the opportunity. Wandering Jim could if he got the chance.

As for

Spoiler

poisoning water

: Anyone could do that if they had access to enough of the stuff, which Kefka did because of his position in the empire. It has nothing to do with his individual power.

As for the Esper pwnage, other villains could probably do that too. Trance Kuja

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nuked Terra in a couple minutes.

Exdeath apparently has insane durability because it was stated in flash back that

Spoiler

no matter how much they beat on him, he won't stay down.

Exdeath is also adept in magic too. Besides, those Esper were pretty much fodder.

 

[Dionysos]

But uh, isn't this a thread about the power of these villans? I said anyone could

Spoiler

move the Warriang Triand

if they got the opportunity. Wandering Jim could if he got the chance.

As for

Spoiler

poisoning water

: Anyone could do that if they had access to enough of the stuff, which Kefka did because of his position in the empire. It has nothing to do with his individual power.

As for the Esper pwnage, other villains could probably do that too. Trance Kuja

Spoiler

nuked Terra in a couple minutes.

Exdeath apparently has insane durability because it was stated in flash back that

Spoiler

no matter how much they beat on him, he won't stay down.

Exdeath is also adept in magic too. Besides, those Esper were pretty much fodder.

Well it depends if you want to take the question as meaning base power. The power the villain is born with, rather than develops. In that case then most villains no longer apply really.
Kefka gained unrivaled power by means other than natural, but he still had that stength when he acquired it.
And about the Esper being fodder... They were to Kefka and the empire, but I always saw them as supremely powerful beings to most people. Against Wandering Jim they'd fry him up if he ever tried to access their realm.

But for absolutely innate complete strength on birth... I'd say only a few villains REALLY apply for this, and that isn't what I thought the thread was, rather who was the strongest in general.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

But uh, isn't this a thread about the power of these villans?

Yes it is, but you seem to be forgetting a major issue here. Kefka didn't simply push the statues, he rearranged them and then received all of their power. Kefka has within him the power of all three of the previous gods of magic, making him the new god of magic. Their power became his power on the floating continent.

Your argument here is akin to saying Sephiroth isn't powerful, he just had Jenova injected into him as a fetus and then fell in the lifestream.

 

[Zeromus]

Yes it is, but you seem to be forgetting a major issue here. Kefka didn't simply push the statues, he rearranged them and then received all of their power. Kefka has within him the power of all three of the previous gods of magic, making him the new god of magic. Their power became his power on the floating continent.

Your argument here is akin to saying Sephiroth isn't powerful, he just had Jenova injected into him as a fetus and then fell in the lifestream.

Well, I was just addressing the whole "

Spoiler

Lawl kefka destroyed teh w0rld! thing.

"

I was simply saying that he didn't do that with his own power.

And even with the power of the those 3 gods, the most he's shown was smiting village sized towns...

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

I was simply saying that he didn't do that with his own power.

Almost no villain did that, so its a moot point. Garland used the fiends, Emperor used the powers and monsters of Hell, Exdeath used the Void, Kefka used the Triad, Sephiroth used Jenova cells and the lifestream, Ultimecia used Ellone, Kuja used the souls he absorbed, Jecht used Sin's power, etc. FF villains are all about obtaining some other power before they try to destroy and/or rule the world.

And even with the power of the those 3 gods, the most he's shown was smiting village sized towns...

Not true. We know for a fact that the size of the towns in the older games is not a reliable source of its actual size. Take Kalm from VII for example. In VII its like 6 buildings, but in Dirge of Cerberus we see its actually quite a sizable city. Kefka raped towns/cities with a single attack, even Kuja, touted by many to be the most powerful, only took out a few buildings at a time with each use of Ultima.

 

[Dionysos]

Well, I was just addressing the whole "

Spoiler

Lawl kefka destroyed teh w0rld! thing.

"

He did.

Whether you want to say that he is the strongest because of it is down to personal opinion.

But he DID

Spoiler

wreck the face of the planet. He DID destroy a lot of towns, wrecked whole communities of people.

It had to be the most visible damage done by an FF villain that I can recall.

Kuja

Spoiler

blowing up Terra was impressive. But it was a dead planet anyway, and most of it was barely stable crystaline towers. If I remember rightly, the plan was for the Terran souls to inhabbit Gaia eventually because the planet Terra had ran dry. It was either that, or they were planning of somehow merging the planets and absorbing the planet Gaia into Terra to make it stronger. That is irrelevant, what I am getting at is that the planet was on its last knees anyway.

But just look at the surface of the planet after kefka got to it... It's hard to deny that it is wrecked. What would the effects on agriculture and other systems worldwide be, when

Spoiler

most grass has turned to dust, rubble and rock? When the sky is no longer clear? When most buildings have suffered a great amount of damage from the change alone? Places that were underwater, rose to the surface. Some places that were on the surface, sank underwater. And a large tower built up of debris of different places he had destroyed rose in the middle as a massive monument to his destruction.

I could not live in that world and pretend that I was living a peaceful life. The signs are just so visible that this is doomsday. The closest an FF game has got to actual armageddon.

In some of the other games some NPC characters could live happily normal lives while the events of the game unfold, sometimes completely oblivious to the villain, or if not, at least able to have some form of normality in their lives. Kefka changed EVERYBODY's lives... I can't think of an example where a person lived an unbroken lifestyle following the

Spoiler

transition between WOB and WOR..

. It completely upset the balance and order of the world, and everyone became a part of its struggle to survive.


Perhaps I may have been off topic there a little bit. But what I am getting at is that Kefka gained the ultimate power of magic.

Spoiler

He attained the power of 3 goddesses of magic, and proceeded to use it to turn himself into a god and cause absolute havoc

. The damage he caused... He DID

Spoiler

destroy the world

.

 

[Zeromus]

He did.

Whether you want to say that he is the strongest because of it is down to personal opinion.

But he DID

Spoiler

wreck the face of the planet. He DID destroy a lot of towns, wrecked whole communities of people.

It had to be the most visible damage done by an FF villain that I can recall.

Kuja

Spoiler

blowing up Terra was impressive. But it was a dead planet anyway, and most of it was barely stable crystaline towers. If I remember rightly, the plan was for the Terran souls to inhabbit Gaia eventually because the planet Terra had ran dry. It was either that, or they were planning of somehow merging the planets and absorbing the planet Gaia into Terra to make it stronger. That is irrelevant, what I am getting at is that the planet was on its last knees anyway.

But just look at the surface of the planet after kefka got to it... It's hard to deny that it is wrecked. What would the effects on agriculture and other systems worldwide be, when

Spoiler

most grass has turned to dust, rubble and rock? When the sky is no longer clear? When most buildings have suffered a great amount of damage from the change alone? Places that were underwater, rose to the surface. Some places that were on the surface, sank underwater. And a large tower built up of debris of different places he had destroyed rose in the middle as a massive monument to his destruction.

I could not live in that world and pretend that I was living a peaceful life. The signs are just so visible that this is doomsday. The closest an FF game has got to actual armageddon.

In some of the other games some NPC characters could live happily normal lives while the events of the game unfold, sometimes completely oblivious to the villain, or if not, at least able to have some form of normality in their lives. Kefka changed EVERYBODY's lives... I can't think of an example where a person lived an unbroken lifestyle following the

Spoiler

transition between WOB and WOR..

. It completely upset the balance and order of the world, and everyone became a part of its struggle to survive.


Perhaps I may have been off topic there a little bit. But what I am getting at is that Kefka gained the ultimate power of magic.

Spoiler

He attained the power of 3 goddesses of magic, and proceeded to use it to turn himself into a god and cause absolute havoc

. The damage he caused... He DID

Spoiler

destroy the world

.

I'm not denying that Kefka

Spoiler

destroyed the world

lol. I was saying that he didn't

Spoiler

destroy the world with his own individual Magic power.

When the power of the

Spoiler

Warring Triad was added to his own

, he got quite a bit stronger, but again, he only showed to be able to

Spoiler

smite towns

with his power, not planets with his own, individual power.

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

he only showed to be able to smite towns with his power, not planets with his own, individual power.

Once again, Kefka showed more power than Kuja ever did with this. Kefka can wipe a city off the map with oner blast of his Light of Judgment. Ultima only take out between one and five old building with each use. If Kefka spammed LoJ like Kuja spammed Ultima, he would have nuked his world much master than Kuja nuked Terra.

 

[Zeromus]

Once again, Kefka showed more power than Kuja ever did with this. Kefka can wipe a city off the map with oner blast of his Light of Judgment. Ultima only take out between one and five old building with each use. If Kefka spammed LoJ like Kuja spammed Ultima, he would have nuked his world much master than Kuja nuked Terra.

And yet it was Kuja who actually

Spoiler

killed the party

. LoJ probably can't be spammed on the level of Kuja's Ultima, otherwise he may have. Kuja's Ultima can be spammed like a automatic weapon though, making him very dangerous. =D

 

[SOLDIERis1337]

And yet it was Kuja who actually killed the party. LoJ probably can't be spammed on the level of Kuja's Ultima, otherwise he may have. Kuja's Ultima can be spammed like a automatic weapon though, making him very dangerous. =D

It actually can be spammed, Kefka flippantly fires it off a few times in a row right before the final boss fight. One zap of it destroys a city easily, and he can fire it off as much as he wants. He would have nuked both Terra and Gaia in the time it took Kuja just to nuke Terra.