Why are you an atheist or agnostic?

[The Welsh Paddy]

SiderealPassing

There is no difference other than my choosing to believe in one over the other.

It could very well be down to blind faith, but when I think of how we live, there's so much that I just don't understand. For example, human emotions. Science explains how it all works, but as far as I am aware it doesn't explain why. Science doesn't explain why we feel happy, or feel sad. I find it kinda hard to believe that it's all just a massive random occurence. I think if that were to be the case, we'd be more like zombies. Everyone has their own faiths, beliefs, opinions, personality. I believe that there is some guiding force behind all that, otherwise what reason is there for any of that?

Okay, so believing in God doesn't provide any answers as to why any of this happens. But it does account for my belief in there being something that guides us towards being who we are today.

EDIT: I really should just quote people.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

A true Atheist imo wouldnt debate or discuss about Religion or God at all imo.

it's an important thing to discuss. it isn't so sacred to us all that we're scared to talk about it. but because of the nature of faith when the topic comes up people are often offended when they shouldn't be. i'm not criticising you, i'm criticising your belief and there isn't any malice intended. the wishy washy vaguely religious people (ie they believe in a god and some form of heaven) aren't necessarily hurting anyone because of their beliefs. but organised religion and religious institutions are doing real damage. especially where education and human rights are involved. that is something that needs to be discussed.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

You never thought that any of those things you experienced were just a coincidence?

Yes many many times. Thing is at some point I couldnt ignore it anymore. I accepted them. I have experienced it so many times that I truly felt someone wanted me to be save like some guardian angel. I did stupid things in the past while the people around me were sinning to the fullest while basically infecting me with their negativity. Coincidence is something I now truly dont believe in anymore. Its easy to shrug it off and just say oh its just a coincidence.

 

[SiderealPassing]

it's an important thing to discuss. it isn't so sacred to us all that we're scared to talk about it. but because of the nature of faith when the topic comes up people are often offended when they shouldn't be. i'm not criticising you, i'm criticising your belief and there isn't any malice intended. the wishy washy vaguely religious people (ie they believe in a god and some form of heaven) aren't necessarily hurting anyone because of their beliefs. but organised religion and religious institutions are doing real damage. especially where education and human rights are involved. that is something that needs to be discussed.

^This guy.

I always say that as long as people refuse to keep their religion(s) to themselves, it's important to stay outspoken about it.

That isn't to say that I walk out on the streets telling random people that their religion is a lie but I'm willing to stand my ground whenever a debate comes my way. Social networking sites also provide a great medium for bringing up issues regarding religion.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

You guys should ask yourself what the point of this really is. You want to make believers disbelievers? You just want to debate for the lulz of it? You like wasting energy on subjects you dont even believe in? You like to make fun of people that believe in something you dont? You want to be convinced perhaps? You want proof?

Proof you wont find anyway. I dont see the point of Atheists debating about religion stuff seriously...

What do you want to accomplish? I dont see no win win situation with all the religious talk.

 

[SiderealPassing]

Yes many many times. Thing is at some point I couldnt ignore it anymore. I accepted them. I have experienced it so many times that I truly felt someone wanted me to be save like some guardian angel. I did stupid things in the past while the people around me were sinning to the fullest while basically infecting me with their negativity. Coincidence is something I now truly dont believe in anymore. Its easy to shrug it off and just say oh its just a coincidence.

Guardian angel? Come on. I know we're on a Final Fantasy board but you should learn to distinguish between fiction and reality. Sorry if I'm being snide but I can't help but chuckle when people say stuff like this. It's like a cinematic view of reality.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Guardian angel? Come on. I know we're on a Final Fantasy board but you should learn to distinguish between fiction and reality. Sorry if I'm being snide but I can't help but chuckle when people say stuff like this. It's like a cinematic view of reality.

You are implying I cant distinguish between fiction and reality. You are incredible shortminded like most Atheists. I dont blame your ignorance.

 

[SiderealPassing]

You guys should ask yourself what the point of this really is. You want to make believers disbelievers? You just want to debate for the lulz of it? You like wasting energy on subjects you dont even believe in? You like to make fun of people that believe in something you dont? You want to be convinced perhaps? You want proof?

Proof you wont find anyway. I dont see the point of Atheists debating about religion stuff seriously...

What do you want to accomplish? I dont see no win win situation with all the religious talk.

Debating and perhaps convincing people not to support ideas that cause physical and social damage to human beings makes it worth a try. Sure I poke fun at what people believe every now and then but I'm mainly here to present my case towards something I feel strongly against.

You are implying I cant distinguish between fiction and reality. You are incredible shortminded like most Atheists. I dont blame your ignorance.

You brought up a guardian angel watching over the miracles that occur in your life. Those things are a work of fiction unless you are able to prove otherwise. I don't see how that's short-minded.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Debating and perhaps convincing people not to support ideas that cause physical and social damage to human beings makes it worth a try. Sure I poke fun at what people believe every now and then but I'm mainly here to present my case towards something I feel strongly against.

Physical and social damage to human beings aye? There are worse things than Religion that cause physical and social damage like drugs,alcohol,cigarettes,even smartphones and internet. You are also convinced all believers are the same, but they are not all the same. Some are genuine and kind people.

Just because you dont agree means its fact or people should change to your liking.

"Sure I poke fun at what people believe every now and then" Well if that makes you happy please continue on.

You brought up a guardian angel watching over the miracles that occur in your life. Those things are a work of fiction unless you are able to prove otherwise. I don't see how that's short-minded.

To you a guardian angel is an entity with wings? like described in the bible etc? Well not to me. Perhaps I believe in souls and or God or some higher being that watches over me. That doesnt control me but tries to convince me to stay on the right path.

Even science is filled with fiction or theories.

I could also believe in destiny that people have a certain path and wander off too much some entity might persuade you to stay on track. Perhaps drugs and alcohol diminishes this.


EDIT:

Entity
Higher Being

These could be an energy or some type of unknown element. The Universe is still an enigma. Im not saying its literally a person as described in the books. It could be a force like gravity.

I dont believe in religion but I do believe in spirituality and lets just give it a name thats so familiar God.

 

[SiderealPassing]

Physical and social damage to human beings aye? There are worse things than Religion that cause physical and social damage like drugs,alcohol,cigarettes,even smartphones and internet. You are also convinced all believers are the same, but they are not all the same. Some are genuine and kind people.

Just because you dont agree means its fact or people should change to your liking.

"Sure I poke fun at what people believe every now and then" Well if that makes you happy please continue on.

Drugs, alcohol and tobacco are consumed by the individual. It's their choice to put potentially harmful substances into their bodies. That's a little different than Christians having an over-arching say in whether or not gay people can get married. I don't even know what you're on about with the internet and smartphones. How exactly are they harmful to society?

When did I say that all believers are the same? I have religious friends.

Actually, there is a difference between what someone believes to be true and concrete fact.

 

[greenyxi]

This seems to have gone off-topic. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted. Any personal debates that anyone wishes to have can either be placed in a separate thread, or via PM.
Thank you

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Drugs, alcohol and tobacco are consumed by the individual. It's their choice to put potentially harmful substances into their bodies. That's a little different than Christians having an over-arching say in whether or not gay people can get married. I don't even know what you're on about with the internet and smartphones. How exactly are they harmful to society?

When did I say that all believers are the same? I have religious friends.

Actually, there is a difference between what someone believes to be true and concrete fact.

"Debating and perhaps convincing people not to support ideas that cause physical and social damage to human beings" THIS. Isnt this you implying religion cause physical and social damage to human beings? You are talking about the extreme cases. Extremists. Not all believers are the same, but you stated it so that its like you are implying all believers suffer physical and social damage. You have religious friends so am I twisting your words or not?

Not all christians are "forced" to believe. Shit I met many people that came from religious families but are atheists now.

Gay marriage I support cause I dont follow the teachings made by filthy corrupted human hands.



Internet and smartphones are actually really harmful. Internet caused this major Lust sex porn industry to skyrocket. Smartphones are damaging little children to be socially inadequate. I could point more arguments but thats not the point.

 

[SiderealPassing]

"Debating and perhaps convincing people not to support ideas that cause physical and social damage to human beings" THIS. Isnt this you implying religion cause physical and social damage to human beings? You are talking about the extreme cases. Extremists. Not all believers are the same, but you stated it so that its like you are implying all believers suffer physical and social damage. You have religious friends so am I twisting your words or not?

Yeah, you're twisting my words. I wasn't implying that all believers suffer physical and social damage. I was trying to say that I get into debates hoping to convince people to discontinue their support of religious organizations that cause physical and social damage to people in general.

Not all christians are "forced" to believe. Shit I met many people that came from religious families but are atheists now.

I never said that they were.

Gay marriage I support cause I dont follow the teachings made by filthy corrupted human hands.

Great. Finally something we agree on.

Internet and smartphones are actually really harmful. Internet caused this major Lust sex porn industry to skyrocket. Smartphones are damaging little children to be socially inadequate. I could point more arguments but thats not the point.

How is someone jerking off to internet porn harmful to society? Support your argument.

Do you have any proof that smartphones are damaging to little children's social skills or did you just pull that out of your ass?

 

[Paddy McGee]

I personally feel no feelings toward any specific- or non specific - deity, or a higher power. I just feel we exist because well... We do. I don't feel there is any higher power controlling or altering our destinies or guiding us to the afterlife. I do respect religion though, due to the many good ideals which specific sects gives its followers in relation to life. I know it isn't all good, etc... But, my lack of belief in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist...


However..


That doesn't mean I can tell you weather YOU can believe in this higher power, or if you can express it or keep it to yourself. It's your business if you happen to believe in the Christian God, Allah, Vishnu, Shiva or just a doctrine of life. It's easy to get blinded and mixed up by blaming specific religions over those who are members of said beliefs, in my opinion. Obviously, many religions have questionable commandments and ideals(Christianity is relation to Homosexuals could be an example).


nevertheless,

I feel we all deserve the chance to believe in WHATEVER we want, without someone else questioning why we believe in that preference. If a person wants to follow Christian teachings, go for it! Islamic? Sures! All the others? fine by me.


I don't classify myself into any of these "Anti-theist" or atheist or agnostic groups. Though I probably fit into the atheist niche, I don't class myself into anything- I follow my own moral compass. Others follow a moral guideline by others? Does this give me any sort of right to damn their beliefs? Of course it doesn't.

Just my insight into this. I won't spend all week arguing this with someone over it.

 

[CassinoChips]

If you're double posting, you're doing it wrong. Use the edit button and/or multi-quoting, please and thank you.

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Agnosticism is for people who don't want to be labeled atheists and/or haven't come to terms with the fact that they're losing faith.

Actually, no. As an agnostic, I believe I have a very specific outlook that is distinct from that of an atheist. Agnosticism in its truest, most Huxley-istic form, is the idea that it is impossible to know whether god/s exist/s or not (a- meaning "without", gnosis meaning "knowledge"). Thus, without objective proof one way or the other, the entire argument between theists and atheists is largely irrelevant and exceedingly pointless. Neither side can prove itself correct, and neither side can prove the other wrong, so it becomes one giant circle jerk. (inb4 no ur a circle jerk)

That is a markedly different position than explicitly stating there are no such things as gods. And that is why I'm agnostic. Until you have objective data one way or the other, pending a blood test......... whatever.

 

[ff1-10]

I am an atheist because I find it completely and utterly delusional to believe in an all mighty man in the sky. I am not quite sure I believe in the big bang either but in my head that makes a little more sense than Jesus and God.

I also find it annoying and unsettling that this all mighty being is sitting up there wherever the fuck he is mean to be judging my every move and if i do not live up to his expectations in every little way he will smite me and send me to Hell.
I don't like that some God is commanding love and loyalty when he created diseases and natural disasters and allows children to starve because of stupid things like adam and eve eating the apple when told not to. He sure does hold a grudge and enjoys punishing people
So I guess that's another reason I don't believe in a God. Because if he is real he's one incredibly mighty cunt.

I don't really ever think about religion or why we're here or anything like that ever unless it is brought up like in this thread or something. I find that it's a bit of a waste of time worrying about something like that.

I'll also not judge another person if they are religious unless they're shoving it down my throat, but I do find it very hard to understand how they can believe in the strange things religion teaches them and why they bother to waste their life trying to please someone no one is even sure exists.

Hrm hopefully that made sense

^This is kind of me right here right now. I've been wondering lately: wouldn't God be sin itself if he created it? I hate to think that or bring that to question, but it's true. It doesn't make sense; he creates these sins and then makes rules that says they are bad and we shouldn't do or have them when he ingrains those qualities in us. I don't get it.

I wouldn't say that I don't believe in him, though...Christianity is such a big religion that it's hard for me to not listen to Christians and try to believe or have faith in that there is a God. When I feel down, I speak to him sometimes to make me feel better. Maybe it's just to feel better because it feels like someone is actually there listening to me, but...I do feel a sense of heaviness like he's there and listening, and I feel better afterward. Then again, maybe it's just because people have made him such a big icon that I "feel him there".

I don't know WHAT I am, but I can accept the idea of a religion and respect it if it sounds reasonably good, like Christianity, Buddhism, etc.... but other "religions" that encourage stuff like suicide bombers or the Nazis (if that was even a religion or type of) I don't believe.

I also believe in the spiritual world of ghosts, energy, and stuff like that. I've only experienced something minor, but there have been too many other cases to deny it.

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

I'm an atheist (stop capitalizing it, seriously) because religion makes no sense. No evidence has been given to me to state that there is a god. Yet, at times I'm asked to prove there isn't one. That's not my job to do. When you come to me with a theory that there is an invisible man wizard in the sky that grants wishes and blows shit up, I want to see some proof. I can't go up to you and tell you that I shit solid gold without proof. You'd probably say something along the lines of "nonsense, prove to me that you can shit solid gold", and I would reply, "prove that I can't."

You see, that's kind of what it sounds like to me. I don't need to show you proof of what I don't believe in, but if you're going to come up to me and try and get me to find Jesus, I'm going to want some kind of proof. Not coincidences, not "something totally strange and weird" that happened to you one time; I want proof. Of course, I'll never get that. But that's okay. All in all, I don't give a shit what you believe in. If you're not hurting yourself or others, I'm cool with it. But for the love of solid gold shit, please don't ask me for proof there isn't one. Holy fuck, that's annoying.

 

[SiderealPassing]

If you're double posting, you're doing it wrong. Use the edit button and/or multi-quoting, please and thank you.

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Actually, no. As an agnostic, I believe I have a very specific outlook that is distinct from that of an atheist. Agnosticism in its truest, most Huxley-istic form, is the idea that it is impossible to know whether god/s exist/s or not (a- meaning "without", gnosis meaning "knowledge"). Thus, without objective proof one way or the other, the entire argument between theists and atheists is largely irrelevant and exceedingly pointless. Neither side can prove itself correct, and neither side can prove the other wrong, so it becomes one giant circle jerk. (inb4 no ur a circle jerk)

That is a markedly different position than explicitly stating there are no such things as gods. And that is why I'm agnostic. Until you have objective data one way or the other, pending a blood test......... whatever.

Atheists don't say that they know that there is no god. Atheists say that there is no scientific evidence for the existence of a god so they therefore do not believe in it. I've already said this several times in the thread, would you be agnostic towards the boogeyman or any other mythological creature? The burden of proof does not lay in the hands of an atheist who isn't making any claims about something's existence. In other words, it's not an atheist's job to prove that something doesn't exist.

 

[Will Graham]

Like I said before there are a/gnostic theists and atheists.

Gnostic means to be certain, Agnostic means to be uncertain

A gnostic theist believes there is undoubtedly a god

An agnostic theist believes there is a God, but does not know for sure there is one

An agnostic atheist does not believe there is a God, but does not know 100% that there isn't one

A gnostic atheist thinks that there is definitely no God

 

[CassinoChips]

I've already said this several times in the thread, would you be agnostic towards the boogeyman or any other mythological creature?

You mean would I think that arguing the existence or non-existence of the boogeyman or any other mythological creature was an irrelevant and pointless endeavor? Yeah, pretty much.

The burden of proof does not lay in the hands of an atheist who isn't making any claims about something's existence. In other words, it's not an atheist's job to prove that something doesn't exist.

I'm not sure I ever placed the burden of proof on atheists. Or, for that matter, on theists. I said the entire argument is pointless, simply for the fact that no tangible objective proof exists or can exist. If there is no extant proof, there can be no burden.