Why does everybody have to bash XIII???

[Razberry Knight]

I personally do not understand the hate for this game, While I admit it has flaws, it is no way near as bad as people have made out. I for one found the game exhilarating from start to finish.

Because some of the PROs you mention are seen as CONs but overall, the worst part is whether you love the game or hate it, you can tell the game develop (or diirector) is stroking his ego.

PROS: + Characters with Charisma - This in itself is a miracle after the drab character's from Final Fantasy XII, the majority who had no motive or purpose to be within the story at all. I can not pin point anything remarkable in XII, While in XIII I can think of many moments which we're very emotive, I can't be the only one who wept during the conflict between Hope & Snow when it exploded at Palumporum.

You see XII deviates from all FF series with that aspect and it was INTENTIONAL. XIII had no more (physical) charisma then any other cast in other FF games. XII's style is all about being "truely" humble rather than ttrying to make an epic FF story. If you've played Tactics or Vagrant Story, you would appreciate XII's style more.

+ A story that progressed - Once again, after Final Fantasy XII's slow progression of it's story XIII's frequent cutscenes was very refreshing. XII you would travel through landscapes/ temples from 5 - 10 hours with no progression in the story. Even when you entered a new town you would just go straight through it. While XIII had cutscenes every 30 minutes at least where the characters would talk to one another, which really built their characters.

It progressed about the same, actually. The first half of the game was incredibly slow. Sure things moved quickly, but most of it was nothing. Characters is what people hate. We have Lightning, who is such a jerk, plays her role on a little too thick in the beginning and then makes a 180 and apologizes to Snow far too easily. Hope also forgave his father far too easily. Fang is in the same boat as Lightning. Vanille is incredibly cheesy even when we find out her realself (as if any of it changed.

+ Battle system - I have to say, I found XIII's battle system to be one of the most engaging in the series. Most people seem to miss the point of the Paradigm system. It's not so much focused on what attacks you use, it's more about having the right paradigm pack for the right moment. I found myself on guard every battle which is more than I can say for some previous FF's. Then of course you have the stagger system too, which was a really addictive system.

Thats where people also hated. The game was too easy! For one, paradigm shift was virtually useless. It was only good to evade a huge attack. But it was stupid?

Ok lets see the point of Paradigm shift. You controlled 1/3 of the party that made probably most of the damage. Then when you were harmed, you used paradigm shift for 2/3 of the party you hardly control at all to heal you or play defensive role. So basically providing strategy between healing and attack and defense

Back in ff4-ff6 era with regular ATB that was basically the point but 10x more engaging because you controlled the whole party. They made battles incredibly difficult, using attacks that can instantly kill all and leaving one member alive making it difficult.

That type of gaming provided use of quick action to. Make a false move maybe once or twice (for example for getting to press a different attack rather than using "protect" or "shell"

But with this system theres no specific strategy, theres no tactics involve. But whats worst of it all is the lack of variation between attacks. This system provided no form of optimization at all when it came to strategy. Example: you can use the three different attacks given to you but they wont make any signficant change. Libra doesnt give you weakness of the monsters. Libra shows you where their weakpoints are, and will be remembered through the rest of the game. As if anyone can control where to hit!

+ The Art Direction & Graphics - It has to be noted, I still think XIII is one of the best looking games this gen, the graphics were far better than even XIII-2. I really liked the sci-fi route of XIII's art design, but then I enjoyed VIII for the same reason. It was just visually striking.

greta graphics? Yes. Great visuals? Sure. But it all comes at a price. Not un.derstanding a F****ing thing about the world. When it came to all other worlds of FF, those were the most cosice and understandable.

The WORLD of Xiii is not a world. The story of XIII didnt need all these visuals, all of it was saucy extra(but thats the issue, its not extra, 70% of the game's charisma is the style) It looks like the visuals were meant to hide what the game lacked which was almost everything.

now for the CONs

- Hiding the depth of the story in the Datalog - A lot of the details we're hidden in these datalogs, which made everything seem very vague, which is why it is hard to connect to XIII's story. Nothing about the God's is ever explained properly in the custscenes. I should not have to read up datalogs or novella's just to make up for a poor presentation of the story.

this is obvious.

- Lack of a personal connection between the party and the antagonist - Like Vayne, Barthanderlus had no personal connection with any of the party, many of the best FF Villains have had such a connection to the lead character tend to be the most memorable (Cloud/Sephiroth, Tidus/Jetch etc.) XIII-2 did make up for this with Noel & Caius Which was one of the best features of the game.

Thats not specifically a flaw, not every good story or good RPG has to have a personal antagonist to the protagonist.

As I have said before, I liked XIII while it is around the middle of my FF list, I still regard it as one of the best games I have played this gen. I think another reason for the hate is that they have lingered on XIII for so long now. One of the joys of Final Fantasy is that they're all different when a new Final Fantasy comes along it brings a new world along with it. Sequels do not offer this experience & While I generally enjoyed XIII-2 it was not up to the FF standard in my opinion.

I think you need to get familiar with FFs first if your claiming XIII was more upto standard than XIII-2 which fixed certain things (but not enough).

 

[Starships]

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy I saying that it's too old ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy II saying that the battle system is retarded ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy III saying that it's too hard ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy IV saying that the storyline is not that good and SE loves it too much ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy V saying that the storyline is dry and too much like FF III ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy VI saying that only lame Kefka fanboys like the game ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy VII and say that only nostalgic babies who whine too much only like this game ?
Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy VIII saying that the Junction and Drawing system is shitty ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy IX saying that the characters are weird and Zidane has a tail, so it's dumb ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy X moaning that the game is too linear ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy X-2 complaining that it's more Charlie Angels than a Final Fantasy ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy XI saying that it's "online so it sucks " ?

Why do people have to bash Final Fantasy XII saying that it's more of a online game than a Final Fantasy game ?


Point is, every single FF game gets the bash one way or another. Not just FF XIII.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Yes but XIII deserves it the most. And SE wwill not let us move on, this whole gen has been dedicated to FFXIII.

 

[AuronX]

I'll readily admit that XIII was not the best game in the series, but I wouldn't treat it like the worst as some people do. For me what sold it was the atmosphere. Yes the pathways were linear and that got rather boring at times, but the reason they were so linear was to show off the environments in very particular ways, and if you can appreciate the artistry there enough, that will be sufficient to make you happy with the game. If not, yes, you'll probably be disappointed. Me, I'm pretty easy to please. I don't go after a FF title specifically for a certain style of gameplay or certain art direction or certain degree of linearity/nonlinearity. XIII wasn't a total departure from the rest of the series--it's still recognizable as a FF game, and to me that's good enough. Just so long as I can trust the Final Fantasy brand to bring me one form of good experience or another, I don't mind if it's a great battle system or great graphics or great music that really defines the game. If it's a good experience in one regard, it's a good experience to me. Hopefully I'm explaining myself well.

I've actually been thinking about firing up XIII again and playing through the first few areas at least. It's just got a great feel to it that I'd like to see again. If I'm in the mood for a deep battle though, I'll fire up XII instead.

Each one has its strength, and personally I enjoy each game for the strength it has and don't spend so much time judging it by the strengths of other games in the series.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I'll readily admit that XIII was not the best game in the series, but I wouldn't treat it like the worst as some people do. For me what sold it was the atmosphere. Yes the pathways were linear and that got rather boring at times, but the reason they were so linear was to show off the environments in very particular ways, and if you can appreciate the artistry there enough, that will be sufficient to make you happy with the game. If not, yes, you'll probably be disappointed. Me, I'm pretty easy to please. I don't go after a FF title specifically for a certain style of gameplay or certain art direction or certain degree of linearity/nonlinearity. XIII wasn't a total departure from the rest of the series--it's still recognizable as a FF game, and to me that's good enough. Just so long as I can trust the Final Fantasy brand to bring me one form of good experience or another, I don't mind if it's a great battle system or great graphics or great music that really defines the game. If it's a good experience in one regard, it's a good experience to me. Hopefully I'm explaining myself well.

I've actually been thinking about firing up XIII again andplaying through the firstfew areas at least. It's just got a great feel to it that I'd like to see again. If I'm in the mood for a deep battle though, I'll fire up XII instead.

Each one has its strength, and personally I enjoy each game for the strength it has and don't spend so much time judging it by the strengths of other games in the series.

It is definitely the worst. Unless we compared it to ff14 (which is attempting to redeem itself).

You can't just take 1 strength to overcome all flaws and say "it was worth it over that 1 strength" And its not even a good strength for FF XIII. If you bought and played XIII for the sake of visuals, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous and waste of money.

XIII obviously had great visuals, but the atmosphere wasn't solid at all and this had to do with the fact that we knew nothing of this world. No first hand experience. It's like this whole game was going through a wormhole. You move from point A to point B with all these pretty glowing visuals around but no real room for exploration, no room to understand this world, and hardly any room to interact. You can hearr others in the distance but you can't get your character to interact with them.

I highly doubt linearity can be defended by showing visuals in specific ways. More like "limiting" ways.

What you like is the "glitter" of the game. You turn on the TV and POOF a cannonball of glitter hits your face, and you enjoy it. But others hate getting glitter in their eyes and mouth and move some of it out of the way only to see that the gold they were looking for is very small tiny piece. And then when you grab it. Turns out to be condensed glitter.


If you're going to defend XIII, at least defend it for whatever is gold about it. (in which I highly doubt any fan can ever be proud enough to defend XIII to a logical point. I've seen XIII fans attempt to defend Lightning but then realize she's just a glorified feminist with little backstory to make her who she is).

I suggest you get higher standards for RPGs. And just to put the level of reasoning out there, I personally am a completionist at OCD level (I received Dead or Alive Paradise as a prank and the vulgar, bad mechanics, and excessive breast bouncing irritates me but the fact that I turned it on and made 2% progress urges me to keep playing it until I get 100%) and I know when a game is good or bad, when its the best and the worst even if I have to beat the game 100%. I played XIII, and this game offers little to no room for my OCD completionism to take over, not only that but the characters are ones that I hate. Making it incredibly easy for me to set it down (after 10 hours!). And this is after playing FF1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 (I played 5 after 13).

FF13 was the first to limit over 70% of the game. You had no choice where you went, you had little control of your party (offering no quick strategy changes), Crystarium system may look like it offers freedom but in the end you'll get the same result once its complete. Most of the lore and mythos was trappend into data logs.

To me, XIII is like one of those cartoons that make someone's body bounce excessively for each movement. You get the basic structure of the visuals, but constantly moving in such an odd way, you can't tell what the proportions are.

XIII's strength is also its flaw. Didn't you read? Some of the game's content didn't fit in XIII and moved it to XIII-2. Why do you think that game finished so quickly compared to XIII and LR? Why do you think time travel was implemented? The sequel was basically a way to give the full fledge XIiI game they wanted to but couldn't.

 

[AuronX]

Umm, it's not a waste of money if I enjoyed it

Here's me logically defending the game: I liked the characters, I liked the storyline, I liked the world/graphics it was all set in. Should I quietly bow my head and mumble "ok" when someone tells me I shouldn't enjoy a game just because they didn't?

I'm the sort of person to take a gaming experience and enjoy it for what it is rather than look for a specific something to get out of it--I'm not the 100% completionist type. Sure, I've come across some real stinkers that were just so bad in one way or another I put them down and never looked back, and I've come across some games that are so good I replay them frequently. FFXIII is somewhere in the middle for me. The visual style was the best part for me, but that's not to say it's the only thing about the game that I thought was interesting. We can spend all day analyzing what causes me to like the game and what causes you to hate it, but in the end the fact that I like it and you don't will be the same.

The glitter analogy was still awesome though

 

[Razberry Knight]

Umm, it's not a waste of money if I enjoyed it

why buy something for its visuals if you can watch it on youtube?

Here's me logically defending the game: I liked the characters, I liked the storyline, I liked the world/graphics it was all set in. Should I quietly bow my head and mumble "ok" when someone tells me I shouldn't enjoy a game just because they didn't?

You're not defending the game, your just stating what you liked without proper explanation.

Or rather you're saying "I like it, Idk why, but I do". Which I personally believe its all that glitter affecting you to find what makes the game gold (or solid)

I'm the sort of person to take a gaming experience and enjoy it for what it is rather than look for a specific something to get out of it

You see that's what ticks me off. Its like saying "You FFXIII haters are looking for something specific and that's why you hate it".
You will LITERALLY play anything just like I do.

You see FFXIII haters know what their saying, know what exactly the problem I with the game is. There's no room for freedom.

And I'll say why that's an issue. Unlike FFX, this is far too linear for one to experience the world first hand. One person cannot enter this world and know the concrete basics of the world's mechanic. Pulse and Coccoon (ironic names considering Pulse is the floating moon-like world and Coccoon being the bigger world) l'cie and Falcie. That's all we get, but we don't see the society aspects, we don't get that extra feel that makes us part of the world. You can't possibly say we're looking for something specific, we're looking for something

--I'm not the 100% completionist type. Sure, I've come across some real stinkers that were just so bad in one way or another I put them down and never looked back, and I've come across some games that are so good I replay them frequently. FFXIII is somewhere in the middle for me. The visual style was the best part for me, but that's not to say it's the only thing about the game that I thought was interesting. We can spend all day analyzing what causes me to like the game and what causes you to hate it, but in the end the fact that I like it and you don't will be the same.

The glitter analogy was still awesome though

Tell me which games you've played that you consider a complete stinker. I believe the visuals are hyping up all other aspects of the game.

The fact that you didn't mention that you liked gameplay shows a lot. That's the core aspect of what makes an RPG and not some movie.

I'm fairly convinced all FFXIII fans like it for its visuals over everything else. And it overshadows so much, they don't see it until they play it for the fifth time.

 

[Exoskeleton]

Umm, it's not a waste of money if I enjoyed it

Here's me logically defending the game: I liked the characters, I liked the storyline, I liked the world/graphics it was all set in. Should I quietly bow my head and mumble "ok" when someone tells me I shouldn't enjoy a game just because they didn't?

I agree with most of your post. I liked the characters, and the world, and the atmosphere. I even think the story was very well written. Some people disagree. FF13 is a good game, but the unneeded datalog(I got through the whole game understanding everything I needed to know without it) and the terrible battlesystem/ level up system really screwed up my opinion of the game. Travelling was tedious and the linear halls did not help.

I think people hate on this game so much because it lacks the feel of exploration and customization, which were the big staples of the final fantasy series. Not only was the only "open world" section of the game repetitive and short, the paradigms were basically the same for every party member with slight differences in between, ruling out customization ability wise. Also, what made me extremely disappointed in the game was lightning. She was marketed as being a badass, having a personality and being a "female cloud" which she was not at all in the game. And lets not even mention the recolored/reused enemies and the so-so soundtrack.

I think these things really threw myself and many others off. I loved the graphics and the story, but the cons for me were much greater than the pros. So my experience was certainly not good in my view. If the game were named "L'Cie" instead of "Final Fantasy" I'd be totally okay with it. It's just not a good FF game to me.

 

[AuronX]

why buy something for its visuals if you can watch it on youtube?

I did. And it convinced me to buy a PS3 and the game so I could experience it properly. I'm glad I did, too!

You're not defending the game, your just stating what you liked without proper explanation. Or rather you're saying "I like it, Idk why, but I do".

Dude, I've defended the game from every conceivable approach to you at one post or another. At this point I just gave you the "I like it because I like it" ultimatum because, as I said before, at the end of the day it's clear I'm going to like the game and you aren't.

The fact that you didn't mention that you liked gameplay shows a lot. That's the core aspect of what makes an RPG and not some movie.

I do like the gameplay, but also as I've said before, I would agree it's not the best ever. XIII-2 even had way better gameplay. I guess I would call it "enjoyable gameplay" rather than "good gameplay" because there were some rather obvious shortcomings (e.g. only being able to use the Eidolon of the lead character, not being able to revive the lead character, etc.) that should have been different regardless of connections to past FF games. But I still had loads of fun with it, and figuring out how to take the most advantage of the battle system was a rewarding challenge.

ZOMG IT WASN'T A REWARDING CHALLENGE! PLAY A REAL JRPG!

Ok, so nobody actually said that one, but I'm just anticipating the response

And lets not even mention the recolored/reused enemies...

Erm...hasn't every FF had recolored/reused enemies?

I loved the graphics and the story, but the cons for me were much greater than the pros. So my experience was certainly not good in my view. If the game were named "L'Cie" instead of "Final Fantasy" I'd be totally okay with it. It's just not a good FF game to me.

It's a fair estimation of the game based on your personal experience and you aren't trying to tell everyone else to burn their copies of FFXIII because of how bad it is in your perspective. I can respect that

 

[Razberry Knight]

i recommend everyq to burn ff1e. plot isnt as solid as any other ff side game, lets say dissidia duodecim. the thing i hate most is this is the producers stroking their ego. they made no effort to please their customers or rather long term fans that know what makes a quality ff game. so yeah, theres strong hate for this game.

and no, youhavent given me any good conceivable reasons. eexample for fftwelve, i can at least ask people whove hated in the past to give it a chance. it is the worst ff game ever. you dont agree? tell me onenumbered ff game that sucked harder than this game for its era.

 

[Zeroxys]

I personally loved 13 and 13-2. it was really fun, yeah there was some things that didnt please me (not so wide open areas/ lack of free roam) but it was still a good story, good plot, gameplay, combat was different, but got used it to. you really shouldnt compare FF games to eachother because of course your gonna think one is shit compared to the others. its just one of those things that people will always do and itll never do it justice. all the FF games r great IMO, except for maybe duodium. never really got all into that.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I personally loved 13 and 13-2. it was really fun, yeah there was some things that didnt please me (not so wide open areas/ lack of free roam) but it was still a good story, good plot, gameplay, combat was different, but got used it to. you really shouldnt compare FF games to eachother because of course your gonna think one is shit compared to the others. its just one of those things that people will always do and itll never do it justice. all the FF games r great IMO, except for maybe duodium. never really got all into that.

The story was dumb, the motives of the falcie were stale and making you question why would did it take them forever to achieve what they wanted? The idea of l'cie forces the entire cast to do what the falcie want.

I can EASILY compare ff games with eachother. Only people who aren't familiar with FF say that.

Obviously we are not going to compare the things that can't be helped such as graphics. However, FF1-FF12 offers more freedom, more first hand experience to the world, and better gameplay. Granted ff2's weapon mastering system wasn't that great and ff12's gambit system was hated (although optional).

If I think one sucks among all the rest because I compared it to other games among the series, then I'm being smart.

Gameplay was horrible. If you don't really care for a challenge or just don't care about having gameplay at the edge of your seat, then yeah, FF13 did good on not offering those. But for long term FF fans, we like a challenge.

Also story and plot are practically the same and it SUCKED. I understood it, it just didn't click and part of it is related to the lack of first hand experience. The only two I sympathized were hope and Sahz, in fact, if the game had Hope as the main character over the rest, it would've been better.

Gameplay was great but combat took some getting used to? Yeah, again practically the same. Combat was literally pressing one attack and R whenever you needed to heal. No roomfor any real strategy or even trying to find a way to make gameplay easier (and who would? This game is insanely easy)

And as much as people LOVE ff13 music, it sounded like a standard sci fi RPG. Nothing special compared to other FF games that have their own signature tracks. But that's to be expected from every sci fi RPG.

You probably haven't played all FFs before. So I suggest you play all of them (or at least ff6, ff7, ff8, ff9, ff10)

You see Vagrant Story had similar style to ff13, however offered great gameplay and an incredible dark story.

Ff13 has weak plot, weak gameplay, with offering virtually nothing what ff usually offers.

Its like each year a bar makes a new drink andd each one tasting better and maybe just ok. But then there's the year where it taste bland. Do u say, it taste bland or it taste good? I say it sucks, every year we get something good but this one just sucked.

 

[ff1-10]

@Razberry Knight: Whoa! Let people have their opinion, lol. It looks like you're attacking people for liking FF13. Yes, the majority of fans don't like it and some are in disbelief when they find people who do like it, but they just like it because they found our said horrid-ness to be likable. How can they possibly like such a horrid thing? People just have different tastes, which is what LukeLC was trying to say about his liking it. He defended the game based on his own likingness/tastes - you don't need evidence for that. Everyone likes different things and sometimes because it's just who they are. A lot of our tastes are shaped and integrated inside of us, sort of like DNA, like when something tastes good to us but bad for someone else.

That being said, honestly I can't say much because I didn't play FF13 from end to start - only a teeny bit of the beginning. From what I DID play, though...well, starting from the trailer, I realized how extremely cheesy the game seemed. The English vocal track for it was...ugh. I was cringing through the whole thing. Then when I got to play the game, the characters really were cheesy, except Sazh, it seemed. Lightning isn't "badass", and she's not another Cloud - that's what we were hoping for and what she SEEMED, which would have been great if she was, but they just made her into a cheesy, woman-stereotypical badass. I dislike how it ended up her fighting for her sister instead of for the world and her identity like what it seemed, like Cloud; that would've been a better story, of course different from Cloud's please, and would've made her non-stereotypical. As for Snow, I wish they were just allies and that he was big and protective, yet goofy, too, like Barret and Wakka but with his own personality like how he did in the game. I dislike how they came up with his cheesy love story. Imagine if he had fallen for Lightning? LOL. As for Serah, she should have never been a character. I prefer a Lightning with no family who is looking for her original roots because she *somehow* got amnesia like how we were told before and is just called "Lightning" in replacement of not knowing who she is. Imagine what a good story that would have been! I thought this game was going to be a mix of 7 and 10 with its own personal twist, but it didn't come out that way. If it had, it would have obviously been way better and a more worthy note of the series.

My brother was the one who played it to the point of almost finishing it, but only to say he beat it, yet he did not have the drive to do so in the end. He and I both agree that it does not live up to the other FF's. For him, there was too much battling, but he DID like the battle system because it was much faster. And...that's it, lol? And the graphics were obviously a plus but they weren't all that different from FF10's to me since they were very vibrant in the same way. I'm the type who would rather have good stories and characters with old graphics not just because of that itself, but because I think graphics that are too real take away from the fantasy. They also make me dizzy! So to have the story and characters be bland, too, is worse. One day I might pick it up again just so that I can really judge it, but honestly every time I watched my brother play it, there was just battle after battle after battle; I rarely saw a cut scene.

But to answer the question...I guess FF13 was just too much, in a bad way. It tried too hard, making it cheesy. I may not have played much, but then why is it that I got the same sense from it that the majority did just in that little amount of time? I also think that it may receive a lot of bashing because, of course, longtime, original fans of FF are biased. Try it unbiased, and who knows? But, Final Fantasy is such a legendary title that an FF game must be decent enough for you to want to finish or play through and be excited at what comes next in order for fans to say mostly good things about it and/or have "OK" feedback, like FF8 similarly, I think. FF8 was definitely NOT perfect and probably, to me, not even good, but there *IS* something about it that just makes you want to play it and like it. It has that *something*, you know? And it's probably that original FF quirkiness. FF13 was cheesy, not quirky. FF10, for example - it DEFINITELY had those awkward moments, but it got through because it had the "right" kind of cheesy. It was awkward, but in a likable/enjoyable way that appeals to a vast majority of our emotions and humor. FF13, not so much. It just made it obvious that it was trying to, but because of that, didn't make the cut for the majority of people.

Though it receives a lot of bashing (even my own, lol), I'm glad that there are people who like it and cried at some of the moments in the game. More FF fans, right? I'm sure that there were enjoyable things for you, but it just doesn't appeal to many people for the many reasons already said. And, it doesn't mean that you're wrong for liking it, but I think if the vast majority of fans who have been with FF don't like it and even SE knows that it was a mistake, then it really wasn't that great of a game, either by itself or compared to other FF's which is what their aim is or perhaps should be because that's what fans are here for, or both. Fans want and have stayed for an FF game, not a game that has nothing to do with what the series is or has been. But everything and everyone has its down moments and FF13 may be one of those for the series right now. The bad thing is, they didn't learn from it, since they're making that new FF13 "dark" title. If you wanna make a good, dark title, why don't you just please put all that time, money, and effort for FFVersus13? The one we've been waiting for and hyping up for so many years now, especially after FF13's release?

It's sad to like something when the majority of people don't, but it comes down to vast appeal VS. minimal appeal, and FF13 is minimal. You just have to realize and accept that.

Also, in a way it's bad for people to like it, because NO WAY does the other side want SE making games like FF13 EVER AGAIN, lol, sorry to say. If there are people who like it, they'll just end up doing what they've been doing, milking the thing, just cuz they know there are people who do like it and spend less time on what we think they SHOULD be doing with FF (like what I said about Versus and how most of us want them to go back to days like 7 and 10). I miss how FF used to be with good, real, emotional characters, development, and a great story. Once they made and gave us FF12, we knew something was wrong.

 

[Zeroxys]

The story was dumb, the motives of the falcie were stale and making you question why would did it take them forever to achieve what they wanted? The idea of l'cie forces the entire cast to do what the falcie want.

I can EASILY compare ff games with eachother. Only people who aren't familiar with FF say that.

Obviously we are not going to compare the things that can't be helped such as graphics. However, FF1-FF12 offers more freedom, more first hand experience to the world, and better gameplay. Granted ff2's weapon mastering system wasn't that great and ff12's gambit system was hated (although optional).

If I think one sucks among all the rest because I compared it to other games among the series, then I'm being smart.

Gameplay was horrible. If you don't really care for a challenge or just don't care about having gameplay at the edge of your seat, then yeah, FF13 did good on not offering those. But for long term FF fans, we like a challenge.

Also story and plot are practically the same and it SUCKED. I understood it, it just didn't click and part of it is related to the lack of first hand experience. The only two I sympathized were hope and Sahz, in fact, if the game had Hope as the main character over the rest, it would've been better.

Gameplay was great but combat took some getting used to? Yeah, again practically the same. Combat was literally pressing one attack and R whenever you needed to heal. No roomfor any real strategy or even trying to find a way to make gameplay easier (and who would? This game is insanely easy)

And as much as people LOVE ff13 music, it sounded like a standard sci fi RPG. Nothing special compared to other FF games that have their own signature tracks. But that's to be expected from every sci fi RPG.

You probably haven't played all FFs before. So I suggest you play all of them (or at least ff6, ff7, ff8, ff9, ff10)

You see Vagrant Story had similar style to ff13, however offered great gameplay and an incredible dark story.

Ff13 has weak plot, weak gameplay, with offering virtually nothing what ff usually offers.

Its like each year a bar makes a new drink andd each one tasting better and maybe just ok. But then there's the year where it taste bland. Do u say, it taste bland or it taste good? I say it sucks, every year we get something good but this one just sucked.

Ive played most of the final fantasy games, and yeah i do know what im talking about. every final fantasy game is different, and if you think theyre all the same and comparable thats your opinion. but if all final fantasy games were the same and comparable they would all be sequals to each other, but theyre not. sounds like someone offended you when they had a different opinion than you. and for that, i feel sorry for you being so close minded

 

[Razberry Knight]

Ive played most of the final fantasy games, and yeah i do know what im talking about. every final fantasy game is different, and if you think theyre all the same and comparable thats your opinion. but if all final fantasy games were the same and comparable they would all be sequals to each other, but theyre not. sounds like someone offended you when they had a different opinion than you. and for that, i feel sorry for you being so close minded

Obviously their different, but that doesn't make it incomparable. I'm not close minded. I've given final fantasy XIII a chance about 3 times, each time made me hate it even more.

Its a horrible RPG. Its like its trying to slap Heavy Rain's cover with Final Fantasy XIII only taking out the multiple endings.

Previous final fantasy offered more customization and bigger range of attacks and options. With Paradigm Shift, players are restricted, not only in controlling the party but choosing attacks. You had about 4-5 options to choose from depending on what paradigm you are using. With Paradigm shift, it even lowered the difficulty level. No way are there going to be monsters or bosses that give one-hit kill. And with three members only? This game offered no real challenge, no strategy development.

So with little options, picking three attacks fast is easy. And yet, we have to wait for the ATB bar to load just to use all three or two attacks. The ATB bar is incredibly slow. The only time it mattered the most was with Eidolons.

Too Linear. Now let's forget that this game offers nothing of free roam. It still made no attempt to hide it. The auto jump may work fine for Ocarina of time, but this game doesn't allow you to take different routes, find the optimum spot to view the background. It had the potential to at least explore these areas by allowing players manually climb bigger areas. But no, this game only allowed you to walk and jump to the next area. Not only was it annoying but it made the game look cheesy and unrealistic.

The game offered so much less than any other FF game out there. Even the FF side games. And I'll go as far to compare it to Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus. Because DoC was linear but offered alternate routes, hidden objects to shoot to unlock bonus levels and cutscenes, sure the gameplay wasn't to players liking however it wasn't because it had tedious gameplay, and sure maybe the story wasn't a hit for most, but it wasn't outright terrible. Crisis Core also offered linearity but with in-story mini games, missions, and newgame+, it still allowed players to find out things that others didn't know about or find ways to unlock certain things.

Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest is better than XIII. You think about that.

 

[Zeroxys]

Obviously their different, but that doesn't make it incomparable. I'm not close minded. I've given final fantasy XIII a chance about 3 times, each time made me hate it even more.

Its a horrible RPG. Its like its trying to slap Heavy Rain's cover with Final Fantasy XIII only taking out the multiple endings.

Previous final fantasy offered more customization and bigger range of attacks and options. With Paradigm Shift, players are restricted, not only in controlling the party but choosing attacks. You had about 4-5 options to choose from depending on what paradigm you are using. With Paradigm shift, it even lowered the difficulty level. No way are there going to be monsters or bosses that give one-hit kill. And with three members only? This game offered no real challenge, no strategy development.

So with little options, picking three attacks fast is easy. And yet, we have to wait for the ATB bar to load just to use all three or two attacks. The ATB bar is incredibly slow. The only time it mattered the most was with Eidolons.

Too Linear. Now let's forget that this game offers nothing of free roam. It still made no attempt to hide it. The auto jump may work fine for Ocarina of time, but this game doesn't allow you to take different routes, find the optimum spot to view the background. It had the potential to at least explore these areas by allowing players manually climb bigger areas. But no, this game only allowed you to walk and jump to the next area. Not only was it annoying but it made the game look cheesy and unrealistic.

The game offered so much less than any other FF game out there. Even the FF side games. And I'll go as far to compare it to Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus. Because DoC was linear but offered alternate routes, hidden objects to shoot to unlock bonus levels and cutscenes, sure the gameplay wasn't to players liking however it wasn't because it had tedious gameplay, and sure maybe the story wasn't a hit for most, but it wasn't outright terrible. Crisis Core also offered linearity but with in-story mini games, missions, and newgame+, it still allowed players to find out things that others didn't know about or find ways to unlock certain things.

Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest is better than XIII. You think about that.

Im just saying that i personally love 13 and 13-2. im on my second playthrough of 13-2 atm and going for full 100% completetion. and it just sounded like every1 should hate the game because its not like the other final fantasy games. which is true, ill give you that. the customization isnt that good and the linear maps r flustering because it lowers the exploration aspect. but i personally like it because its a game i can pick up and play for 20-30 mins and get some stuff done. whereas in other FF games you cant. you NEED a good hour or 2 of complete freetime to even progress even a lil bit in the others, which for someone like me who is busy alot is hard to find. i think the 13 series is great but thats my opinion. i have beatin 7, played 8, got to the final bosses of 9, i can write the book on X and ive beatin 13 and 13-2. dirge of cerberus, and crisis core were all decent games, spinoffs nonetheless but they were interesting. but overall i think 13-2 offered something for the more casual gamers which is nice, but it wouldve been nice to see is bigger and more elaborate. I personally enjoy them though and cant wait for Lightning Returns FF 13

 

[Razberry Knight]

Im just saying that i personally love 13 and 13-2. im on my second playthrough of 13-2 atm and going for full 100% completetion. and it just sounded like every1 should hate the game because its not like the other final fantasy games. which is true, ill give you that. the customization isnt that good and the linear maps r flustering because it lowers the exploration aspect. but i personally like it because its a game i can pick up and play for 20-30 mins and get some stuff done. whereas in other FF games you cant. you NEED a good hour or 2 of complete freetime to even progress even a lil bit in the others, which for someone like me who is busy alot is hard to find. i think the 13 series is great but thats my opinion. i have beatin 7, played 8, got to the final bosses of 9, i can write the book on X and ive beatin 13 and 13-2. dirge of cerberus, and crisis core were all decent games, spinoffs nonetheless but they were interesting. but overall i think 13-2 offered something for the more casual gamers which is nice, but it wouldve been nice to see is bigger and more elaborate. I personally enjoy them though and cant wait for Lightning Returns FF 13

But that's a small aspect to the failure of FFXIII/XIII-2. There was no customization to the commands for these paradigm shift. So if we wanted to optimize it, we wouldn't get to. But again, who would want to? The game's a breeze.

I can tolerate someone saying "decent, good, ok, fine" but "great" is giving too much credit. The game's lore still pushed into long datalogs.

And you usually didn't need over 2 hours to progress a little for the rest of the games. Not for me at least.

7, 8, and 9 weren't even the most time consumng when it came to the 16-bit era. Such as ff6 and ff4.

I can also understand if meant for casual players, but the game virtually offered nothing. I hate XIII-2 but mainly on story and how it deviates its world even more. We still get no clear picture of what this world is. XIII-2 offered more.

FF isn't meant to be so "casual" (I don't really believe casual players is its target). I love Dirge of Cerberus, but I recognize its not the greatest spin off. Plot didn't exactly stay true to the original and was targetted to those who wanted to try out fps type of games.

I think ffXIII fans should recognize its not a great game. "I like it, but I know it technically sucks"

 

[Zeroxys]

i think its a great game. how can you tell someone how they should/shouldnt feel about a game? thats your own opinion, not everyone shares the same opinion as you, is pretty much what im trying to get across to you. just because you think its a bad game, doesnt mean every1 else should feel the same. I know most people didnt like 13 series, but i do, i think its sweet. and im wrong for that? no im not.

 

[Razberry Knight]

i think its a great game. how can you tell someone how they should/shouldnt feel about a game? thats your own opinion, not everyone shares the same opinion as you, is pretty much what im trying to get across to you. just because you think its a bad game, doesnt mean every1 else should feel the same. I know most people didnt like 13 series, but i do, i think its sweet. and im wrong for that? no im not.

Yes to enjoying the game (that's uncontrolable) but stating its a great game is like saying "Final Fantasy is the worst RPG series of all time" just because it offers too much.

Some opinions are too obscure not to challenge.

That's why I don't defend Final Fantasy XII for being a great game, just a good one. I defend it for having good qualities and still agree for its bad. (However I do consider XII higher than XIII and I will defend that as a commonly accepted opinion)

 

[Blank]

Sorry, but I have to address the OP.

You pointed a couple of the bigger flaws and said "So what?" Sorry, but that's exactly WHY. You answered your own question. Well done!

Seriously, your only defence is that it's a "good story" and even that's a stretch. It's confusing as fuck and doesn't actually make any sense when it comes to crunch time. The storytelling is atrocious. It races off with these characters knowing everything that's going on and they start throwing around terms without anyone there to ask what any of this means or what it means for the characters. That's why a protagonist is useful. Final Fantasy X had its flaws but still had Tidus who did not know anything about Spira, just like the audience. Then Tidus could ask the questions we wanted to ask and get the answers for us. That was well handled in X.

So in XIII you run through corridors, fight a boss battle, have a cutscene which was usually about them not knowing what their Focus was and bitching about how they had no idea how to find out what their Focus was... which is just a stupid concept anyway. Seriously, if the Fal'Cie want these tasks completed, fucking TELL your operatives what they need to do!

Urgh.. come on, just admit you like pretty graphics and stupid flashy anime fighting. It's not a good story and even a game has to be a good game to present its story well. The previous entrants to the series were well crafted games as well as stories. If your only defence is that it's a shit game but a good story then you may as well tell people to buy a book instead. I fucking guarantee that if FFXIII were a book and these people started babbling on about Fal'Cie without anybody explaining what the fuck was going on, you'd put it down and start reading something good instead.