Hal Otacon
Expert Hacker
He was a really clever creation of a villian..
possibly there hasn't been or never will be a villian like him..
possibly there hasn't been or never will be a villian like him..
Your thoughts on Sephiroth
- Thread starter Darkblade
- Start date
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LordofInfinity
Blue Mage
I used to think he was the best villain ever. But after taking a look at other villains from different companies, now he seems a bit... lacking.
First thought that popped into my head about Sephiroth: He's is one hard man to beat in the Kingdom Heart series. Y.Y
Senor Senior
Banned
Hiya Leki! But yes, Leki brings up a great point. He just doesn't die. Sephiroth. No matter what he gets put through, no matter how many times y'all kill him, he just pops back in another game/ movie. That alone is indicative of his serious quality as a great villain.
Warm regards,
~The Legendary Wullfe
Warm regards,
~The Legendary Wullfe
Cecil The Paladin
Blue Mage
sephy is the greates villian ever there is no arguement on that so CRAMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ser strife
Newbie
omg..... sephiroth is like the best villain ever!!(my oppinion 
).
he is not a wuss would a wuzz burn a village down? would a wuzz assasinated the founder of shin-ra? would a wuzz fight cloud?
).he is not a wuss would a wuzz burn a village down? would a wuzz assasinated the founder of shin-ra? would a wuzz fight cloud?
TheHeartlessDarkness
Take My Hand...
See...at first...I thought he was a pretty cool bad ass in the beginning, killing random people, having psychedelic scenes, etc. But...as soon as he killed Aeris...I hated the prick for the longest time...
Then...I beat him...so I forgave him and now he is probably even more of a BAMF than ever...
Then...I beat him...so I forgave him and now he is probably even more of a BAMF than ever...
Chaos Theory
MY 360 DIED! ='(
Sephiroth is the only reason that I somewhat like FF. He's one of my all-time favorite baddies. Gotta love that sword and his ruthless attitude.
he stabbed her from behind because he was afraid of cloud if you look cloud hass always been there to stop him and when he stabbed him for killing zach (if i am correct on what flashback it was) he was wounded pretty bad. and i think seperoth was more than slightly cool
Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII. There have been two threads like this in the past on this forum but both lacked a nice thorough evaluation of each character. I will provide this as the start for this topic.
SEPHIROTH
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.
Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.
Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?
Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!
So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.
But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.
Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.
Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.
KUJA
Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.
Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...
And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.
That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.
Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!
His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.
Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!
Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!
Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.
Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!
He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.
Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?
So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...
Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?
Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!
To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.
He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.
Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.
Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.
Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.
conclusion
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.
SEPHIROTH
Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.
Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?
Short time later...
Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.
From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.
Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.
So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.
But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...
Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.
Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.
Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.
Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?
Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!
So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.
But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.
Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.
Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.
KUJA
Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.
Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...
And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.
That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.
Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!
His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.
Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!
Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!
Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.
Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!
He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.
Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?
So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...
Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?
Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!
Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World
Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!
To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.
He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.
Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.
Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.
Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.
conclusion
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.
~HysteriaN~
Ex-Soldier
i have to agree with mbaherak
he by far the best villain in all final fantasy that ive played
he is the dominate character in FF7 to,
vincent cloud and sephiroth are all equal in the way they present themselves
he by far the best villain in all final fantasy that ive played
he is the dominate character in FF7 to
,vincent cloud and sephiroth are all equal in the way they present themselves
LordofInfinity
Blue Mage
Hey, people have their own opinions and can argue about it whenever they want.
The Crystal
Ex-Soldier
Nikkolas said:
This is just your opinion. And this is my opinion.
Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, and intelligence.
But not in appearance, power, accomplishments, and aura.
Sephiroth's appearance is better than Kuja. His mixture of black and white/silver, a giant sword, and muscular body give him the victory, to me. His appearance is much more threatening than Kuja.
Sephiroth is more powerful than Kuja. Kuja have the power of some souls, Sephiroth have the power of the majority of the Lifestream in AC.
And in FFVII we have beings like Zirconiade, Omega Weapon, etc. that can destroy all life in the planet. SE already said that Sephiroth is above all of them.
In accomplishments, is a tie between Kuja and Sephiroth. Kuja suceeded in gaining a great power and killing Garland, but failed in destroying existence. Sephiroth suceeded in gaining controll over the Lifestream in AC, but failed in transforming the planet in a vessel and travel the universe.
And Sephiroth's aura is better than Kuja. Kuja have an aura of mistery surrounding him, for most of the game. Sephiroth have an aura of fear(because everyone is afraid of him, and he have impressive feats).
You watch Kuja and say "who is this guy, and what he want?". You watch Sephiroth and say "Dammit is Sephiroth! I don't want to fight against him."
And, Ex-Death and Ultimecia in their final forms >>>>>> Kuja
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And we have beings like Odin who can blow up entire cities and Atomos who can swallow whole sections of cities...they're all vastly weaker than Bahamut who Kuja let have a free shot on him and all it did was make him bleed.
Sephiroth never did anything that impressive in durability pre-powerup.
Second, Kuja has the power of Trance and some souls. With this, he managed to destroy a planet, travel across dimensions under his own power, kill the party, revive the party...
Kuja never lost a fight. Sephiroth has lost several times. He also never destroyed a planet on his own.
If we tally up everything Kuja did, he has far more accomplishments than Seph. He's been manipulating and orchestrating things for years. He started a whole war for his own ends. Created a whole race of powerful golems. Then re-enslaved them when they rebelled.
Sephiroth killed some people in the Shinra building.....
Ultamecia's final form was defeated by some kids. I'm not impressed. Squal and his group don't exactly have much in the way of showings of how uber they are.
And Neo X-death has no feats. We can theorize by dialogue but we saw nothing to support his power.
The power rankings is this.
1. Trance Kuja
2. God Kefka
3. Neo Exdeath
Kefka and Kuja both showed far more impressive displays of power than any other FF antagonist.
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~HysteriaN~
Ex-Soldier
lol we wanted to know your thoughts on sephi not ur obsession with him hehe
My thoughts on Sephiroth?
Probably one of the best villains in the series, or anywhere for that matter.
Doesn't mean I agree with him, of course........
But his character was, and still is, a triumph for the character designers of Squaresoft.
So there....there you go.
Probably one of the best villains in the series, or anywhere for that matter.
Doesn't mean I agree with him, of course........
But his character was, and still is, a triumph for the character designers of Squaresoft.
So there....there you go.
Unfortunately VII wasn't my first FF, but after playing the others and then playing VII, I kinda though Sephiroth was overrated as a villain. I really never saw any of the hype that everyone was giving him.
The Crystal
Ex-Soldier
Nikkolas, i don't agree with some things you said and i want to talk about them.
Beings that can destroy cities aren't more powerful than beings that can destroy the planet(Zirconiade, Omega, etc).
And i don't remember of being stated in FFIX that the other Summons are vastly weaker than Bahamut.
Sephiroth lost many times because he was arrogant and NEVER fought seriously. Not because he was weak.
Come on, we both know he did much more than that.
She was defeated, because she was the villain and they were the heros. If you replaced them with ants, they would still win, because they have plot-protection. The same with the Returners and Kefka, Avalanche and Sephiroth, etc.
You cannot judge a villain's power by the heros that defeated him/her, because in most cases, the heros win by plot-device, or the villain's arrogance, or etc. You have to judge the villain by his/her feats in the story.
Some people believe Ultimecia was defeated because, destiny > anything in FFVIII, and the heros were destined to kill her. Other people believe she was arrogant and lost because of that. But the fact is: SeeD didn't won because they were more powerful. They were just "normal" humans and a sorceress fighting against... A being that was absorbing the entire universe to inside herself. Seriously, you cannot believe they are more powerful than THAT.
And what we "saw" of Kuja, was Mikoto saying he destroyed a planet. Your point is?
Of the villains i know, i would say:
1. Final Ultimecia, Neo Ex-Death
2. God Kefka, AC Sephiroth, Super Trance Kuja
To say that, first you have to know all FF antagonists. And i don't want to offend you, but i doubt you know.
In my opinion, Sephiroth summoning the Tainted Lifestream to cover the sky and attack the planet to destroy it, was in the same level of power of Kefka destroying the world, for example.
And if you use Scan in Ultimecia's final form, you will read this:
Absorbing existence itself is more impressive than anything Kefka or Kuja ever did. Kuja came close to that, but only because of a plot-device(the Original Crystal), not using his own power like Ultimecia did.
Beings that can destroy cities aren't more powerful than beings that can destroy the planet(Zirconiade, Omega, etc).
And i don't remember of being stated in FFIX that the other Summons are vastly weaker than Bahamut.
Sephiroth lost many times because he was arrogant and NEVER fought seriously. Not because he was weak.
Come on, we both know he did much more than that.
She was defeated, because she was the villain and they were the heros. If you replaced them with ants, they would still win, because they have plot-protection. The same with the Returners and Kefka, Avalanche and Sephiroth, etc.
You cannot judge a villain's power by the heros that defeated him/her, because in most cases, the heros win by plot-device, or the villain's arrogance, or etc. You have to judge the villain by his/her feats in the story.
Some people believe Ultimecia was defeated because, destiny > anything in FFVIII, and the heros were destined to kill her. Other people believe she was arrogant and lost because of that. But the fact is: SeeD didn't won because they were more powerful. They were just "normal" humans and a sorceress fighting against... A being that was absorbing the entire universe to inside herself. Seriously, you cannot believe they are more powerful than THAT.
And what we "saw" of Kuja, was Mikoto saying he destroyed a planet. Your point is?
Of the villains i know, i would say:
1. Final Ultimecia, Neo Ex-Death
2. God Kefka, AC Sephiroth, Super Trance Kuja
To say that, first you have to know all FF antagonists. And i don't want to offend you, but i doubt you know.
In my opinion, Sephiroth summoning the Tainted Lifestream to cover the sky and attack the planet to destroy it, was in the same level of power of Kefka destroying the world, for example.
And if you use Scan in Ultimecia's final form, you will read this:
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Absorbing existence itself is more impressive than anything Kefka or Kuja ever did. Kuja came close to that, but only because of a plot-device(the Original Crystal), not using his own power like Ultimecia did.
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Except...did any of them actually destroy a planet?
From what I remember, Omega doesn't destroy the planet. It takes all the Lifestream up into space. It doesn't blow the planet up or anything.
And I'm sorry but Sephiroth never came remotely close to blowing up a city let alone a planet.
And I repeat: taking a shot froM Bahamut > anything Sephiroth ever took in ways of durability.
True enough but it's at least a good bit deal stronger since it was the one summon Garnet and Brahne thought be best to take down Kuja.
So...he's an idiot.
I guess idiots can be pretty strong but if all they do is act like idiots and get beaten time and time again...then I'm not gonna say "ignore that. He's DAMN POWERFUL1!"
I already listed everything he did in that long post.
And none of it comes close to Kuja's showings.
When all we have to go on in regards to Ultamecia's power at this point, yes, I can thoroughly bash her for being owned by Squall and everyone. There's nothing else to really guage her power on, is there? All she did was slowly screw with time through Elione. There's nothing to suggest she became more powerful at this point.
This I agree with.
And in terms of feats, Ultamecia has nothing on Kuja.
She wasn't absorbing jack. She was slowly compressing time. She wanted to crush all of time so only she existed, IIRC.
And no one ever mentioned a universe. For all we know her magic only effected the planet.
True enough. But that was a statement on what he -did-. Not what he could potentially do. Which still amounts to Kuja destroyed a planet and Neo Ex-death never got a chance to do much of anything.
Kuja and Kefka would beat the living hell out of Sephiroth with ease.
One Light of Judgment and we don't have to worry about there being anything left of him to come back.
They were just black clouds. They did nothing except add atmosphere. They didn't "attack" the planet.
A. Where did you get that quote from?
B. And hello? Elione = Plot Device. Ultamecia couldn't do shit on her own on that level without Elione's gift.
I do, actually.
Name one FF character who blew away a planet besides Kuja?
Name one FF character who re-arranged the face of the planet and could leisurely vaporize cities with his power?
None? Yeah...
Kuja and Kefka > All other FF villains by showings.
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