Zack or Cloud

This at first glance sounds like a question which we'd expect to have heard so many times by now, but I actually don’t think I’ve thought much about it before, and it is a very good question.

Cloud and Zack are very different, and Cloud becomes more complicated by the fact that aspects of Zack's personality and roles were incorporated into Cloud's image of himself.

I personally must go with Cloud. I dislike him in Advent Children and the spin-offs, but I did like him in FFVII. Despite most people, I actually could relate to Cloud more than I could with Zack. But what I relate to in Cloud is quite different from what people might take to represent Cloud on the surface.

Zack was very upbeat and optimistic, and has very positive traits. He’s almost stereotypically chirpy, though Lirael reminds me how he does have his moments where he cries and shows other emotions – and he does this well if I recall correctly. Zack represents the human consciousness when it is more pure and on the right track. Zack is socially and mentally healthy and the sort of person that society would want to promote.

What I found interesting about Cloud is how he was battling himself throughout the whole game. He was falling in and out of Zack’s positive, confident, cocky and sometimes humorous persona, and sometimes slipped into his more insecure and darker side. Cloud represents the human soul during a crisis. Cloud is socially and mentally ill, but he is not malicious. He is the type of person that society doesn’t really want, but he means and wants to be good. It takes much more for Cloud to prove himself to be a hero.

Cloud is a shy and quiet kid who wanted to prove that he could be as great as anybody else who might shout out about things more than him and generally be more assertive. He lacked the charisma of Zack, and outwardly appeared an oddity and a loner, but he’s a human being nonetheless. He liked people, such as Tifa, but never understood how to communicate with them effectively. When he failed to rise up the ranks of SOLDIER as he’d planned to, and following the trauma of the Nibelheim incident, he incorporated Zack into his personality. This mix is quite interesting. It isn’t real and doesn’t even seem quite real to him, but he’s able to exert himself a bit like Zack at times, and experiences what it is like to be like that. He’s still got his insecurities, but he forgets for a while that he was as shy as he was. It shows at some times, but he at least gets a taste of that life… However it then all unravels and he crashes and burns, and ends up in a wheelchair. It ends very badly for Cloud when he remembers what he is. Unfortunately for him he doesn’t seem to cheer up after that. He spends the rest of his time being sad that Zack and Aerith are dead. This is where I dislike what Advent Children did for Cloud, as I personally think that Cloud should have taken more from his experience of roleplaying Zack, learned from it all, and then moved on. It seemed as if (to me at least) he was going to do this towards the end of FFVII, but in Advent Children he appeared to be more mopey than he had ever been before.

All of that said I’m basing my perceptions of the two characters on my memories of two entirely different games (both of which I haven’t played in many years). While I’m not 100% content with the portrayal of Cloud in the later games and media, Zack isn’t given any serious character development in the original game. What we have to do instead is unravel Cloud’s personality to get to what we can paint as ‘Zack’. Crisis Core fills much needed gaps here, and is similar to how it would be if we were to unravel Cloud from the original game.

Therefore… I found that they represented very different types of character. Zack is more of a hero in the truest sense. He’s a hero which the vast majority of people could easily like, because he is more positive. Cloud is a troubled individual who steps up to be a hero, does very well, and has identity issues when he remembers that he was the quiet kid from down the road who was too shy to have any friends. Cloud wants the same things as Zack, ultimately, and he is just as much a hero as Zack is. However, due to his nature he is not likely to receive the same hero worship as Zack did, or even as Sephiroth did. Cloud remains an enigma. People, I guess, are probably grateful for Cloud, but he doesn’t inspire in the same way.

Cloud in FFVII is a hero for lonely, isolated and insecure people, but because he doesn’t effectively cure himself I do not think he is very successful, and not really a very good role model. He seems to have lost his humour and any essence of happiness within him when he realised that he wasn’t the person who Zack was. At least Kimahri in FFX smiled and laughed awkwardly when prodded. I’m sure Cloud possibly did towards the end of Advent Children, but it wasn’t as impressive as Kimahri’s – and that is worrying. Whilst I don’t expect Cloud to (consciously this time) slip entirely back into the shoes of Zack, I do think he could have learned from it. He’d know now from experience what it is like being like that, and that could have been Zack’s gift to Cloud. Cloud could have taken the good from that experience and mixed it with his own more reserved personality, thrown away the insecurities, and became a better hero yet.

But… Miserable and emo’ish characters with big swords were very popular at the time of Advent Children, I believe, and so this aspect of Cloud was, I felt, exaggerated for this image.

In short… Who was cooler? Zack for sure. He sends out the right signals where Cloud, though he means well, does not really know how to.

Who is the better character? I found Cloud had more to him, and I could empathise and almost relate with some of Cloud’s little-known life. I think saying that he relied too much on his party is not entirely fair though. He needed to in FFVII due to the nature of the gameplay of that game. FFVII was a party-based game. He’s more of a lone badass, like Zack was able to be (in a positive way), in Advent Children (when putting aside the Bahamut scene, which really was just a way to get all of the old party-members to have their 5 seconds of cameo).

Those are, however, my perceptions of the characters based only on my own irrational memory. I willingly invite Tifa into my own mind to unravel the truth.
 
The only thing better than a hero is an anti-hero. At least, that's what I always said. He teeters between the edge of sanity and madness, and is a mind that only barely managed to sterp It's way into the hero side, and even then, he still had another metamorphosis to to through.

Cloud, in regards to character, development, etc... is the better character, no doubt about it. I'm really not talking about likeability here, as Zack is more likeable than Cloud 90% of the time to people.
I also think many people are confused about what Cloud's character is about, or people that focus on his love relations, since Zack's was a bigger portion of his character, while Cloud's are almost always downplayed.
That being said, Strife's character has all to do with one thing: finding yourself when you are lost. And, chip away everything surrounding Cloud's character, that will always be his core. He is a broken mind in a crisis, an empty puppet, looking for the person he once was, while living in the illusion his pupeteer created for him. And, of course, breaking away from the illusion, his master, and his own insecurities near the end. Becoming who he truly is.

And that's why, I say, he's a better character. His story simply has far more to it. Simbolicaly and in the literary sense. Zack's story is more in-depth with the purpose of other character's(namely Genesis and Aerith). It's still wonderful, but It can't hold a candle to the enormity of Cloud's. That's why the most important relationship of Cloud's story isn't Tifa, or Zack, or Aerith; it's Sephiroth. Sephiroth, the one who controls him like a puppet, the one who controls all the puppets, puppets like Jenova and Kadaj who often find themselves submitted to his will, and becoming heartless, emotionless: hollow.
Cloud could have shared that same fate, but he is the represantation of coming back from the brink, so he is the puppet that broke away from it's pupeteer. And try as he might, the pupeteer never managed to get back that control.

I would go more in-depth to analyse what his mind went through during Advent Children, but that post would be too long as It would have to touch Cloud's relationships with his family, and all other than himself's. I will say though, that the hate and claim of inconsistancy to his character during AC are unfounded. There was nothing inconsistant with what happened in the movie, and it was simply a continuation of Cloud's character study, the Compilation's main plot-point. Aside from the fact it's an integral part of VII's examination of heroism when dealing with an anti-hero, the real Cloud is buried during AC, you don't see him except when nearing the end.


Of course, if people's hate is in the fact they didn't get to see a whole lot the real Cloud(the one at the end of FFVII and at times, the one in CoT), that's understandable, what you got to see most was depressed!Cloud finding his real self again, though this time the barrier was not a literal alternate personality created by the strenght of Sephiroth's will, but a projection of his own mind and insecurities.

Some people might not have been satisfied with how little of the real!Cloud was seen after his second metamorphosis(namely, his smile at the end of AC and his scene with Denzel after the credits) but I actually kinda prefer the use of imagination in this, I see exerpts of real!Cloud in various pieces of the compilation, and that's why I think the contrast of puppet!Cloud and depressed!Cloud to real!Cloud are so good, because the paradigm is inverted. Ususally the 'negative' bits are the ones which we see little of, not the 'positive' ones. I think that's what makes Cloud an unlikeable character to most people, you only see his real, 'positive' self fleetingly. And yet, you know him deeply, since all the compliation was a character study of his alternate ego's and 'negative' personalities becoming his 'positive' self, which is real!Cloud.

So yea, Cloud's story and character is much more grand, developed, well-written, and that's why i like him better. I do agree he's not a likeable character, generally, but I can understand that he is a better character. And that's why I like him better, I guess. I believe that story is conflict, and Cloud Strife is one of the many personifications of conflict and disparity.
 
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im team cloud as zack just wasnt as interesting a character for me and i loved cloud going crazy for a bit in the game.
 
Cloud because he has cool moves and strong personality..
Zack is quite good but he is beaten by sephiroth so I prefer Cloud...

OMNISLASH rocks!!!!!!
 
Cloud is a walking shadow of Zack, the sword, the uniform etc. I love Cloud he is my all time favourite character but Zack deserves mention because he had such a lovely well woven story with aerith and well you feel for him throughout his journey. Cloud has the moves and has the combat straight to the point, no bullshit personality which I think i prefer more. So it's Cloud for me :)
 
...Zacks better than cloud, cloud trys to be zack after he died..
Cloud would've died if it wasnt for zack any ways, but i preffer cloud..
 
You know about the Cloud being all serious and quiet stuff, if you reply FF7 again you'll notice he makes quite a bit of sarcastic jokes and sometimes comes off as arrogant. Could that just be Zack's last wishes and personality imprinting on him or is that really how Cloud was before all the Sephiroth mindfuck?

and X-Wing it's just that when Zack was dying he basically made Cloud become like him and "help him leave his legacy behind" that's mainly what affected him in regards to being a Zack
 
Ahh it's such a hard choice, they're both great characters and they act completely different. But i say im on the Cloud train here.
 
personally I'd say Zack.

Why?

I love how cheerful he is even in the worst of times. I love how he's able to pick himself up after a disaster and doesn't lose hope. He's kind-hearted, he doesn't try to be something he's not, he can be very sincere, he's caring, and basically he's the anti-Cloud. I like Zack a lot more.
 
Always Cloud.
It is not to say that Zack wasn't someone most people can relate to.He in fact is a more appropriate main character.He has all the traits of a hero.
But Cloud is Cloud.He was there before Zack(the Crisis Core one I mean).He made FF7 what it is today and I think gave rise to many characters after him to adopt certain character traits of his or the tramatic past kind of story.
I loved Zack in Crisis Core and was diply moved by him,but I think Cloud will always be the one who'll best deserve 1st place.Unlike Zack,Cloud is rather private and doesn't share his thoughts.His internal turmoil after a number of events,while it is realized it is not made public.It is limited in him and later Tifa who is able to access his memories in the lifestream.Cloud was more flawed than Zack and not as ideal.He had dreams which he failed to succeed and made him feel very shameful as far as to not show his face.
I don't think there are words to describe about my attachment to Cloud.Although he's not in my top 10 list of all time video game characters,when it comes specifically to FF7 I don't think anyone can fill his shoes and take his place.
 
I'm assuming you skipped all the FFVII scenes when Cloud was talking...
If he had no personality then he would not have any dreams of his own either.
 
As much as i love Zack, Cloud in general just has more history to himself. I dont really see the similarities in Zack and Cloud during the original when i played Zack in CC. He seemed way too happy and hyper. A bit of a lady's man too as cloud doesnt try to get any girl he sees though in-game he was just as popular. I like Cloud more, he changes a lot and gets better.

Cloud is just harder to read. Doesnt mean he has no personality. For example: Rei Ayanami.
 
Morrigan

Your right, I did. I thought Cloud was a terrible character and that FFVII was a terrible game.

But that's a war for a different thread, let's not get off topic.

Anyway, To elaborate a little bit more. Cloud with his: "Oh leave me alone to cry" was SO. GRATING. It got to the point that half his personality was just whining and the other half was a blank slate for little kids to envision themselves.

Zack actually had a endearing Personailty and was a pretty chill guy. He had his morals and he never slid into a vegative state to allow necomers to envision themselves. Zack had a good personality. Cloud had...zip.
 
Razberry Knight said:
As much as i love Zack, Cloud in general just has more history to himself. I dont really see the similarities in Zack and Cloud during the original when i played Zack in CC. He seemed way too happy and hyper. A bit of a lady's man too as cloud doesnt try to get any girl he sees though in-game he was just as popular. I like Cloud more, he changes a lot and gets better.

Cloud is just harder to read. Doesnt mean he has no personality. For example: Rei Ayanami.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that Cloud has a personality. Just because it's not the most likeable, exuberant, or apparent, does not mean that it is nonexistent. That's like people who say that shy, introverted children simply don't have a personality or don't know how to have fun. There's more to people than meets the eye, and Cloud's complex character is the perfect example of that. ;D

Personally, I choose Cloud over Zack. I've played Crisis Core so I know how awesome and well-rounded Zack's character is. He has a very upbeat and likable personality. He really manifests a heroic persona. However, it sort of stops there for me. He is a cliched hero - from the start to the finish of the game. And although he can be seen as an inspiring figure for Cloud, I don't find "one-dimensional" characters to be all that interesting. Sorry if that sounds harsh. ^^;


 
I think thats one reason why I chose cloud over Zack. Zack was one dimensional while cloud had mysterious side. One was predictable in certain ways the other we couldnt tell what was in his mind. But he was almost as predictable.
 
I'd have to say Cloud, probably. Zack was awesome, no doubts there, but he didn't have to fight through a lot of self-hatred and madness to save the world. Strength of character is just as important as strength of mind and body, and Cloud is probably the strongest character I've ever known.

Besides, he may be an oldie, but he's a goldy!

(Oh, see what I did there? :tehe:)
 
Zack was the "original template" of Cloud, as I see it. Zack was the idol, and proved to be the hero he wanted to be. He had goals, ambitions, dedication, spirit, etc.

We all knew how his story would end (and it was quite a tear-jerking one), but I found his story much more interesting. His journey proved to be a rigorous one.
 
I liked Cloud's attitude more than Zack's in Crisis Core. It's just my taste. I like the quiet and shy characters more. He was more warm and friendly, now he's all depressed, but he has motives. I cried at the end of Crisis Core, but not for Zack, for Cloud, because Zack went to Lifestream, his pain was over, but Cloud's pain was just beginning. Mourn the living, not the dead.
 
I'd have to say Zack, personally. While his optimism did get a bit irritating at times, his sense of humor and strong moral compass was the entire reason I was able to push through Crisis Core's confusing story and perplexingly slot machine-based combat.

My history with Cloud was not the fairest when I later encountered him in Dissidia (damn good game) and Advent Children (......). He was a little more personable in Dissidia, but I couldn't stand him in Advent Children. This was thanks to how I saw his character develope all throughout FF7 into a reasonably well-rounded broody-guy with a soft-spot for his friends get thrown right out the window in favor of the lone introvert. I didn't understand why he regressed back to his pure broody side. The air of mystery that he had about him at the start of FF7 is gone; we KNOW why he mopes. He has a good sum of reasons to do so. Then why is he being moody again all of a sudden? SquarEnix just didn't seem to GET what made Cloud an endearing character: He was likeable because you saw him overcome his issues, find his own identity, and become better for it. All of these traits are indicative of having relatable human characteristics, not pouting all the time and pushing your friends away.

...I apologize, that rant was NOT meant to sound so negative! At any rate, all I'm saying is that I like Zack for his consistancy and Cloud for his redemption story, but Zack just exhibits more personality traits that I adore in a protagonist: Optimism, Justice, Courage, and a Sense of Humor to boot.
 
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