Aerith and her Faith

[GalaxyFlare]

Listless

So emphatic was your ignored post you posted it again?
I think Ill ignore it a second time

Of course I know Calis stance, she is the main proponent we have argued and debated for well over 2 months on this subject I think should be aware!!!!

And Cali argued Well as did the rest of you guys but there is no evidence strong enough presented beyond faith of a few to try and persuade people, its not enough how could it be? Yes Imagery and actions............but no words no reverse dogma to ascertain an undefinable truth about this subject.

My opinion is not based on Imagery or transferred believe in a god its just not, some people look for the smallest thing thing to connect what they believe in on to other platforms.................but transferred believe in a false god makes Aerith about as much of a christain as I am freaking dinosaur.

Roar!

 

[Terra Branford]

Listless

So emphatic was your ignored post you posted it again?
I think Ill ignore it a second time

I'm sorry, but what does that say about your stance in this thread? Why are you ignoring her posts? Please direct and answer her post. Its belongs here as much as your posts, mine, Cali's or anyone else's posts....

Is it because what she says proves that Aerith is Christian

My opinion is not based on Imagery or transferred believe in a god its just not, some people look for the smallest thing thing to connect what they believe in on to other platforms

I'm sorry, but you're right. It isn't based on evidence. Its just based on opinion. I know we all have the opinion in this thread, but at least we've given our "opinion" thought and evidence.

As my last post said (one page back, can't be seen now...) where is your evidence besides personal statement? I don't see it and I haven't seen it through this entire thread.

A capitulation is out of the question Faith Vs reason and logic never goes down well.

Galaxy...through this whole thread you have (not just you, though...) done nothing but mock us and our Faith and insult us for our Faith. You told me through PM you didn't mean for it to come off that way and I believed you because we're friends, but you continue to do this through the thread and its getting really frustrating. How can I believe you don't mean it when you continue to do this?

 

[Squid]

PMs are private messages...

our side has given proof (go back and read a lot of TTT's posts)
And we have retaliated to your 'proof' but you wont listen to that... you'll only go by what you think and not accept what other people have stated.

EDIT: Sorry let me rephrase this: "IF PEOPLE ARE MOCKING YOUR RELIGION ITS BECAUSE:" you wont acknowledge anything other than what you believe... and its a little frustrating.
I haven't actually seen any one mock your religion yet.

As been said before, we believe that Christianity in the real world has been dissected and placed as religious reference in FFVII but that does not mean that Chrisianity is the religion in FFVII it just means SE wanted to give off the idea that religion plays a big part... and Christianity is the worlds most known religion so everyone can relate when they see a church or a blurry halo and understand that Aerith is religious.

Except instead of believing in God or jesus, she believes in The Lifestream and the Planet.

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Because i can separate myself from my beliefs and just be friends, if you cant get past your self and your religion mores the pity, im not limited by anything here, Im not mocking Christain religion, i respect the way it invites people to treat each other and respect one another.

I do however stop at the belief of a singular "God" figure.

If you want me to mock you for your beliefs I am more than capable of making you cry, but I dont wont to Im trying to argue and if you dont like the way i do it Kacey Im sorry,
but to hold a position founded or not you must be willing to hear other "truths" against it and hold form to your own position as you have done.

I just believe every one who argues against the majority of of posters in this thread are:

Monumentally Wrong. Hugely wrong.Enormous even!.

But tis just my opinion. not everything has to be shared in friendship Kacey

 

[Terra Branford]

I've read all of TTT's posts. There is no evidence other than the statement of "its just imagery." or "if she was Christian, SE would have said it" That's all you guys have been saying to us.

And no, you didn't refute our evidence other than replying with "but it just looks like it" or "well, it could be ANY religion!" and the finally agreeing there is religion but "it can't possible be Christianity but it could be anything, as long as its not Christianity."

If you did it once, do it again. I'd love to see what you guys have said. (wasn't in the debate the whole time )

(v Edited in)

You've had attitude this entire thread.

Please don't just shove your side onto everyone and try and take in what other people have to say.

If SE wanted Aerith to be a christian, they would have said "Aerith is a christian" and Aerith would believe in god and Jesus not the Lifestream and the planet.

Look at what religious people go through just in this thread. They are accused of not having logic because of Faith, basically we told we are stupid because we have Faith. Heck, there was even mock threads created to mock us. Do you think SE would have taken the chance in losing money to people who hate religion? No, because they are being smart. They are a company after all....

The fact is, Aerith is seen doing Christian/Catholic practices only in the C/C religion. She visits a Church, something only for C/C. She prays to a book called The Gospel to get the aid of Catholic Angels, again something only in C/C religion. From a window broke out of the church, we see a man with brown hair with a golden halo.

And then we look at Yuffie's town where they are very clearly Buddhist. This planet has our solar system. This planet has Texas, Hawaii and others. This planet has cars, something we made. This planet has churches, something in the C/C religion. This planet as a Holy book called The Great Gospel in which Aerith sits to pray to and receives the aid of Catholic angels.

You say she worships a planet, yet her own actions and that of SE contradicts it. She is seen praying to the Bible, aka The Great Gospel. lol

(^ Edited in)

I think people are only 'mocking' your religion because you wont acknowledge anything other than what you believe... and its a little frustrating.

How does that make it okay? So I can insult you because you disagree, right? That's the logic you're trying to apply right now.... >.>

No, what's frustrating is the continued mockery and insults on us for being Faithful that's being ignored. That's frustrating.

We are getting frustrated, but I assure you, we'd never go mock you, insult you or anything else. Or we would have done what you guys have done.

I would never because its wrong and leaves a horrid feeling in my heart.

PMs are private messages...

And....?

@Galaxy:

If you want me to mock you for your beliefs I am more than capable of making you cry, but I dont wont to Im trying to argue and if you dont like the way i do it Kacey Im sorry,
but to hold a position founded or not you must be willing to hear other "truths" against it and hold form to your own position as you have done.

I'm sorry Galaxy, but you have been mocking us. This isn't arguing, this isn't debating. You refuse to meet Baby's posts for some odd reason and you can't provide proof to refute our evidence. You guys sit here and basically spam with personal opinions with nothing to back it...

But tis just my opinion. not everything has to be shared in friendship Kacey

I'm not angry or frustrated at your opinion Galaxy, far from it. I'm getting frustrated on how everyone here is allowed to mock us and insult our intelligence because we have Faith in our God. That's what I'm frustrated about.

Our opinions don't have to be the same to be friends. But I would never mock you for what you believe in and insult you for having Faith. Or in your case, for not having Faith in a religion....

Instead of all that, how about we actually stick to the topic and actually read everyone's post? Picking through posts isn't really helpful, it just causes problems and then later, misunderstandings.

Let's start it off again for those who will want to stay:

Why do you feel she isn't Christian? Please provide evidence for it.
Why do you feel she is Christian? Please provide evidence for it.

@Pink:
Well, I suppose since you're going to "ignore us" and stay away from the thread, there is no point in debating with you. I won't waste my time on someone who won't be here

 

[Harlequin]

Why are people trying to win the thread? This is about understanding and sharing our interpretations. I believe Aeris' character was modelled into that of your average, pious Christian. It's fair enough that people would suggest she's not a Christian, but no one is bothering to explain their reasoning, so far it's been post after post of "no it isn't", "yes it is".

I don't want this thread to die

No, what's frustrating is the continued mockery and insults on us for being Faithful that's being ignored. That's frustrating...

...I'm getting frustrated on how everyone here is allowed to mock us and insult our intelligence because we have Faith in our God. That's what I'm frustrated about.

Not that I wish to take the thread in this direction, but I agree with what Terra's said here, mocking Christian belief is senseless and it's happened quite a few times already. Can't we just bury the hatchet?

 

[Saints&Storms]

No, your "ide" hasn't given proof, it has simply stated what else it could be and argued Plato's Republic, saying that something looks like something but is only similar in name or title. I read all of TTT's posts, I need not to reas them again. Arguing the number three is not retaliating proof, quite the opposite actually. I won't and have not listened because its been baseless and factless opinion.

Now they are mocking our religion? I thought they were just mocking the thread but, wow, you learn something new everyday. So then, you believe that a just reason to incult people? You think we aren't a bit frustrated by getting insulted for a thread on a forum?

Islam is nearly just as big as Christianity, why not use that imagery? If it truly were JUST to show religious intent? No one has over disected anything; so has been done as much as the Number three's been argued.

Where in the world has it ever been stated or shown that she worships the Lifestream? The Lifestream is simply a life force of the planet, and the Planet? Simply a planet. She does NOT worship or pray to it, ever.

But once again; This was ignored -

In Final Fantasy VII When you get the mythril so you can get the book for Aerith's Limit Break, her book is called "The Great Gospel", the book Aerith reads to learn her last and Final Limit Break. Every final limit for each character is achieved when you get their book. Aerith BOOK is called "The Great Gospel". So not not only is she praying for Divine/angelic aid, but she achieved so by reading a book called The Great Gospel. That's what praying to the Gospel is. Her Limit is achieved by reading a book called the Great Gospel.

I don't know it kinda sells itself How many other book are called the Gospel?


The logic has been laid out, however many people keep arguing whether or not the actual existence is something else altogether and would rather it simply shares the name alone, that the Day of The Sabbath in FFIX rather than being religious "shares the name alone", even though there are priests and churches in the game as well, no matter how many thing we prove exist in the games and they very well may be these things, it doesn't matter because the opposers of this thread will say what they have always said; they are symbols, or they only share the name or resemblance.

 

[Terra Branford]

@Harlequin:
I thought I was the only one seeing it xD

It's fair enough that people would suggest she's not a Christian, but no one is bothering to explain their reasoning, so far it's been post after post of "no it isn't", "yes it is".

In all fairness Harlequin, Cali, Baby and I have been. The posts are ignored and so is the evidence and our explanations of why it is so. See the statement that Baby's posts would be ignored...D

As I said above:

Instead of all that, how about we actually stick to the topic and actually read everyone's post? Picking through posts isn't really helpful, it just causes problems and then later, misunderstandings.

Let's start it off again for those who will want to stay:

Why do you feel she isn't Christian? Please provide evidence for it.
Why do you feel she is Christian? Please provide evidence for it.

Please anyone, if I'm wrong (post was ignored a page ago) then please prove it. I don't want to see "cause its not" I want to see your factual evidence as to why she is not a Christian and if you have it, I'll believe its right.

Can someone direct the last post of mine on the last page? Or Baby's? Because they keep getting ignored and if you can provide reasons why its not as it is, then please do

 

[Rapture]

EDIT: Sorry let me rephrase this: "IF PEOPLE ARE MOCKING YOUR RELIGION ITS BECAUSE:" you wont acknowledge anything other than what you believe...

I'm sorry but there's no excuse for bashing someone's religion. Ever. The whole point of this thread is to debate whether or not Aeris is Christian or not and if thats something that they strongly believe in and attempt at furnishing reasonable proof of, then by no means should they refrain from sticking up for what they believe in and holding to it...only to turn around the next day and state the opposite because they are affraid of being bashed by someone or offending someone else. I assume you hold some religious beliefs yourself, if this thread involved your religion or possible lack there of being ridiculed softly in the background then you'd be a little heated yourself? Cali shouldn't have to drop it, its what she believes...and on a separate note the fact that she's Christian herself has nothing to do with this, this is about Aeris's beliefs and not Cali's.

As far as Aeris being Christian, Terra, Baby Doll, and Cali have referenced some very obvious symbols of Christianity in the game. The church, the gospel, angels, the figures in the church, crosses and etc...Symbolisms that correlate primarily with CHRISTIANITY. However with people only wanting a concrete answer by SE stating that Aeris is Christian then people are going to deny it because they don't want a concrete religion in a game or whatever...I don't presume to know. All I do know is that if something walks, quacks, and looks like a duck...chances are its a duck.

 

[Daenerys]

A few staff members have been discussing this thread, and, we have decided that it is going no where. The thread has become circular, with the same arguments repeating themselves, and despite posting numerous warnings, the subtle digs and attacks have increased.

The thread may be re-opened on a later date, but for now;

-Thread Closed-

 

[CassinoChips]

Hey look, I can still post.

Couple things, and these go for both sides of the debate.

1) Stop saying you've "proven" something. It comes across as pompous and arrogant. This is a debate involving religion, no one's going to be able to objectively prove anything. Especially when you haven't actually proven anything. Both sides have provided evidence that supports their side. That's as far as it goes.

2) Stop accusing people of "ignoring" posts. A person can read your post, digest the information contained therein, and still completely disagree with you. It goes back to point 1. With religion, there comes a point where it's no longer objective. (Personal Note: The only posts I purposely haven't read are Terra's posts from today, but not because of what they say or don't say, but because your font is annoyingly small, and I don't feel like squinting for 15 minutes straight.)

3) On the Logic v. Faith thing. Faith, at some point, becomes illogical. That's not to say that a person who is religious is not or can not be logical, or use logic, but at some point, a person who chooses to believe in a deity must suspend disbelief and step away from logic entirely.

Also, he said he didn't mean it how it came across, and he's said in the thread that he doesn't have anything against people of faith, it's just not for him. So stop raking him over the coals for it. Christianity preaches forgiveness, no?

4) Taking a shot at someone because of their religion is unnecessary, yes. But taking a shot at religion in general isn't necessarily ..... bad .... for lack of a better term. Nothing is sacrosanct. You don't have to laugh, but you shouldn't get bent out of shape if somebody says something you don't like. Within reason, of course.

5) Accusing someone of having an "attitude" is unnecessary, and a logical fallacy, with no real place in a debate.