Aerith Overrated?

[The Witch]

Okay.. firstly, being a significant counter-part to the main character automatically makes you valid. Yeah, she dies before the games over, why shouldn't she. Cloud loves her, everyone loves her, she's the most innocent character in your crew. Her death was one of the single most significant events in VII that it's remembered for, Sephiroth comin down on her like that, smilin while she died, Holy bouncin prolongedly into the water. One of the few events that are more important then that is the fact that, lmao, hello, Meteor was eventually stopped by Aeris' 'prayer' (Holy materias magic) so without Aeris, Meteor would've smashed Earth, Sephiroth wouldve gotten his way, game over, sad ending.

Id say that Aeris is pretty fuckin vital to the plot. Underrated, not at all. Just gives you bragging rights when you've got Great Gospel unlocked using her ultimate weapon, like yeah, Im the shit.

Lmao, yes! Exactly it.
I was just trying to word that Meteor was stopped by Aerith.

When I got Great Gospel, I was so freaking happy. It took forever.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Ok, I agree.
FFVII's story couldn't have gone on at all without Aerith. She was a huge part in VII. She is why Cloud got caught up in the Midgar building where Sephiroth came and killed everyone. Without Aerith ever asking Cloud to be her bodyguard, Cloud would have never went after Aerith when she got kidnapped by ShinRa (when her and RedXIII were supposed to 'mate' (??)).

Therefor he would have never really started his "battle with Sephiroth".
Causing there to be no FFVII. Otherwise it would be us fallowing Barret, Tifa, Jesse, Bigs, and Wedge around while watching them try to blow up Midgar.

Cloud would have started his journey to find Sephy sooner or later. It was inevitable. Literally. Reunion and all.

It's a huge over statement when someone says Cloud couldn't exist with out Tifa. Because that's not true. Cloud was headed for Midgar with Zack, remember?

And without Tifa he would have remained a senseless mind shattered vegetable at the train station, eventually just plodding over to the reunion as a vegetable, much like #3 in the tube.

Tifa didn't even exist in the game until wayyy later on in development. It was, Barret, Aerith, Cloud, Red XIII, and Tifa was an add on.

Tifa was added to the story well before the story as we knew if finally took shape, and if anything, it is the character of Aerith as she is now that is the add-on, as her role Prior to the creation of Tifa was given to Tifa upon her creation.
This is all in Dismantling, like the 'Two Heroines and one of them would die' quote.
BTW, for someone who is an 'add-on' to the story, she sure did manage to get involved most of the game's FMVs...

Cloud would have eventually met Aerith with Zack.

Except for the whole Zack being dead thing.

And without Aerith's death Cloud wouldn't have wanted to fight Sephiroth as much.

Cloud and Tifa were the only people to have a personal reason to fight Sephiroth before Aerith died, actually.

The same crisis still existed. So the same story would have played out, just with fewer characters.

Yes, including Cloud. Minus Tifa, Cloud never recovers his mind. Setting that aside, though, he also never gets invited to join AVALANCHE as a pretense of keeping a closer watch on him, thus he never goes on the missions, never falls from the walkway onto the church, never meets Aerith. Even setting all THAT aside, once he does go ga-ga again, there is no one in the world who can set it mind straight, only Tifa will do. As you love Maiden so much, this idea is echoed there as well.

And since it was brought up. Tifa couldn't have helped Cloud in the Lifestream without Aerith's guidance. Proving that Aerith is a HUGE character in the story. Because if it wasn't for Aerith helping Tifa be able to enter Cloud's mind, there would virtually be no Cloud. He would be in a coma state for ever.

Aerith only shielded her from the mako poisoning on the way in, according to Maiden. On the other hand, the Ultis say it was Cloud who pulled her inside to shield her from that.

Just like Aerith wouldn't have been able to help Cloud find his true self without Tifa physically being there to do the deed.

Aerith wasn't able to help Cloud because she wasn't allowed inside, nor did she aid him in recovering his true self.

If Aerith would have lived, and say Yuffie died. The story would be A-ok without her.

Minus the whole "Oh shit Holy didn't work we're all doomed anyways" bit (or the equally lackluster "Oh yay it worked without a hitch", but I think Sephy would have halted it regardless.)

If Aerith lived and Tifa died, the story would be lacking a physically strong female character but would remain the same.

No, it would not. The character dynamics are different, Cloud would have never recovered from his coma, and again, "Oh shit Holy didn't..."

A list of reasons why FINAL FANTASY VII needed The Ancient, Aerith.

1. Cloud would have never opened up to people at all. (He was mean before, then nice(er) after meeting her.)

This is not true. He begins opening up to people immediately after Tifa's lecture (to say nothing of the quality time Sec7 thinks he and Tifa were spending together) This is not to say Aerith didn't help, but to say it is solely because of her is mistaken.

2. Cloud wouldn't have stuck around with AVALANCHE.

Um... No... TIFA is why Cloud stuck around with AVALANCHE. She asked, he stayed. Stated in plain text in several places.

3. Marlene would have been killed by the explosions of the plate if it wasn't for Aerith. (Barret asked Aerith to take Marlene to a safe spot)

This is true, but technically irrelevant. Unless ShinRa decided to capture her, which seems their style, which technically invalidates part 1 of point 5.

4.Because Cloud would have never found Tifa in the Honey bee in. (Aerith brought Cloud to the park which led to them seeing Tifa.)

If not for Aerith's delaying him, Cloud would have gotten back to 7th heaven before Tifa even left. Also, Tifa was never in the Honey Bee Inn.

5. Cloud would have never seriously got involved with ShinRa without being Aerith's bodyguard. (When Aerith got kidnapped by one of the turks, Cloud decided that he was going to break into SHinRa's headquarters -with lots of guards-and take her back. Leading him to find Sephiroth. And if Cloud never would have saved Aerith there would be no Cloud VS Sephiroth.)

There was ALREADY a Cloud v Sephiroth, from five years prior.

6. We would have never met Red XIII without Cloud becoming Aerith's bodyguard and going to Shinra to save her. (An other character gone without Aerith. Not to mention if Red XIII was gone, we would have never found out the information about the Anciants in Cosmo Canyon. A huge chunk of the story gone, again.)

Not as vital as the main character missing entirely though.

7. If Cloud never met Aerith he probably wouldn't have been forced out of Midgar -he was on the run- Causing Cloud to never meet any other future AVALANCHE members. (ShinRa started chasing Cloud because Cloud stole the Anciant -Aerith- back. Cloud did so because he met Aerith.)

Helping AVALANCHE and being an EX-SOLDIER and furthermore an escaped research subject wouldn't get them on his tail?

8. The Anciant's history/information would have probably never been spoken of -during Cosmo Canyon- without Aerith existing. (Actually it wouldn't have any reason to come up at all without Cloud and Aerith meeting)

Interestingly enough, this also means the Black Materia would have never been activated, as no one would know where it was, thus nullifying the entire story arc.

9. Aerith held the Holy materia, which -at the time; to her- was the only thing that could have saved the planet from Meteor.

Which actually isn't a problem if Sephy never gets Meteor. Of course, if she didn't exist, one begs the question of where it would have gone instead. Bugen seems reasonably likely.

10. Aerith's death was a huge push in Cloud to defeat Sephiroth.

Eh, no more than the rest of the party. Probably less. He already had a personal vendetta, and Aerith's demise merely added to that. For the rest, she was a very personal reason to now seek vengeance against the man. Not saying he didn't give two dingleberries about her death, but I think calling her death a 'huge push' in his reason to kill Sephy both understates his previous reason and just plain ignores the effect it had on everyone else.

11. Tifa wouldn't have EVER been able to help Cloud in the Lifestream without Aerith guiding her into Cloud's mind. (And without Aerith helping Cloud with his mental state in the Lifestream, Cloud would still be in a coma sate of lies he was fed by people around him.)

Aerith shielded her TO Cloud's mind, not INTO Cloud's mind. Aerith was not able to contact, much less get inside Cloud while he was in the lifestream. She also did not help Cloud with his mental state in the lifestream. Tifa did. No Tifa, no Cloud.

12. Aerith's death led Cloud to realize that Holy was prayed for and was going to try and save the world. (Remember, Cloud and Co. were trying to find Holy, so they could prey with it and attempt at saving the world? But then Cloud saw that Aerith had already prayed, so she did the hard part for the world.)

True, but this would not have materially altered the course of the plot for the party to be unaware of this.

13. Without Aerith, the Lifestream would have never saved the world from Meteor. (Which means everyone would have died, including Cloud. And if the world got destroyed there would be no story/life of FFVII.)

True, but then again, without her, Sephy wouldn't have been able to get the Black Materia, as the chain of events that set all this in motion would have never happened.

Now, none of this is to say she's worthless or any of that, just to A: point out that when you begin changing events, everything starts chain reacting to the change, and B: point out that certain things would have happened anyways without her presence, and other things wouldn't without it, and C: To correct some materially wrong data you presented.

Why do you always bring it up, man?

Because it's true. She is the literal girl next door. It is also true he had a crush on her, thus fitting the cliche further.

lol, YAY!
Someone brought up Naruto. I agree with you.

'Cept Tifa managed to get it out within less than half a year after finally meeting Cloud again... Hinata's taken how long now?

I wouldn't call her "promiscuous". But she definitely dated a lot.

Based on...?

How do you know it's midnight?
Midgar is always dark.

No it isn't. There's natural sunlight streaming down from above at Aerith's, both in FF7 and in CC, especially in the ending FMV which takes place three months before FF7.
Moreover, I know it's midnight because the time is announced on the train just moments after Cloud gets on, and that time is just after midnight, 12:23 AM to be precise. Furthermore, the reactor explosion is said to have occurred the same day as the news report on it when Cloud wakes up, so it too happened post midnight.

Spoiler

I sense LTDs in the near future *dream song plays*

Smeg off, sunshine. I'm just here to halt the spread of Bull, like I do in the other subforums. The LTD doesn't come into it unless it comes into it.

Im thinking he meant the gold saucer date....it was pretty late.

No, I mean Midgar, post reactor, pre-train, Aerith with the basket walking up to men and asking them to buy flowers.

 

[EVA]

What, no love for Rosa?

She's so ignored. -tear- At least he mentioned Celes, though. I'm going off topic, but I never got what so many people saw in Rydia.

e, feel free to enlighten me some on Rosa...

Rosa not only had beauty, but brains, and the purest of hearts. She is the most devoted to the one she loves, imho. And, she was quite useful in battle because she was not only capable of white magic, but archery as well.

It's a huge over statement when someone says Cloud couldn't exist with out Tifa.

Cloud can exist just fine without Tifa, he'd just be his fake persona for the rest of his life.

And without Aerith's death Cloud wouldn't have wanted to fight Sephiroth as much.

His Mom, Tifa, and his Hometown seemed to be enough before Aerith came along. The only thing we'd miss without Aerith in the story, is her amazing character and her tragic death. Also, we might not have gotten to know as much about the Ancients as we'd like, and there would have to be a different way to find the holy materia, and to summon it.

Just like Aerith wouldn't have been able to help Cloud find his true self

Considering Tifa is the key to Cloud's past, I think not. Also in Maiden, Aerith says she's jealous she can't be the one to help Cloud. In which Zack responds, Tifa is the one who can do it. Besides all that, the Ulti pounds it into your head that Tifa is the only one to help Cloud in this instance. Though, I do like the idea of Aerith protecting Tifa from Mako poisoning. How nice of her.

But she definitely dated a lot.

Since when?

Aerith is quite an introverted character.

I can't agree with that AT ALL. The creators describe Tifa as the one to hide her feelings, and Aerith as the one who is able to express her feelings openly. If you get Tifa's date scene, she says "I bet Aerith would be able to just come out and say it..."
Also in the Ultimania, it states:
"Aerith who is forthright and Tifa who is demure"
Aerith was able to ask Cloud for a date and flirt with him to an obvious degree, while Tifa hid her feelings as stated in her FFVII profile.
Also, in Aerith's Ulti profile:

Although Aerith had miserable circumstances, her mind still overflows with brightness and sometimes mischief

How does this point to a woman who is shy? What makes Aerith such a remarkable character, is her ability to touch others with her friendly and secure nature. Aerith was bubbly and flirty, really quite cute. The only time I see her being more timid, is in CC. I saw Zack getting her to open up more and more as the game progressed.

 

[Serah]

I'm closing the thread. I think there's been enough discussion on whether Aerith is overrated or not. All it's doing is is going off topid and turning into another Aerith vs Tifa debate. I am so NOT in the mood to deal with this bullshit since people seem effing incapable of keeping their mouths shut about particular subjects prohibited from here as that is exactly what it's stemming around.

*closed*