arsehole muslim extremists burn poppies

[Marquis of Granby]

Can't agree with this at all. We'd still be a British colony and/or a Native American homeland if the colonists had followed this mantra. People say things like this when they're the ones they want people to agree with. But as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, they're ranting and raving. (cross-reference: Conservatives pre-Obama and currently)

If you don't like the way something is done, you should speak out. Now, granted, these idiots are going about it in a horrendously tactless and distasteful manner. But they should have the right to voice their collective opinion, even if it flies in the face of the majority.

the voice of reason as ever. i have to agree with this generally, though not in this particular case. britain is a doormat. and the thing is these people (and other foreigners in general) come here and they get everything, benefits, housing the lot all at the expense of the taxpayer. they dont complain about our so called "crusades" then do they? if theyre not happy they should fuck off back to their own countries. our government bends over backwards to accommodate foreign people to the point where we're actually losing our national indentities just so that we arent seen as "racist". im all for freedom of speech but where religion is concerned there's no such thing. people should not be protesting in the name of their god. its pointless, it doesnt achieve anything.

assuming these people work - theyve actually taken time off work to do this and theyre SO brave some of them had to cover their faces. the british government need to get a fucking grip and close the borders otherwise its gonna get to the point where the majority will be more than willing to see a bnp government. i know i would after reading this. these people are so hellbent on changing britain into whatever shithole theyve crawled out of, maybe we should punish them in the same way theyd be punished in their own countries. lets round them up and shoot them, or stone them to death, blow them up, gut them, hang them. it might make them think twice about the western world and the people who fought specifically in world war 2, since i dont think they fully conform to hitler's white, blond hair, blue eyed master race.

if they want to protest against soldiers being present in the middle east fair enough. i dont agree with it myself, but thats not what theyve done at all. this shit shouldnt be allowed at all, i can only speak for myself but its infuriating and im sure - in keeping with the general pattern - innocent, peaceful muslims will suffer for a small minority of idiots.

 

[Harlequin]

The gesture is trivial and says more about the protesters than those who are on the receiving end of the protest.

Ashes to ashes, I don't give a fuck if someone decides to be 'disrespectful' to me when I'm dead. As a Christian I believe I only have to answer to God.

If someone wants to mock those who can't respond to their protests what does that say about them? I say let them, the worst thing we can do is pay them the attention they so blatantly crave.

If no one responds to a protest that in all fairness, is neither here nor there, they've failed miserably in their protest.

 

[CassinoChips]

the voice of reason as ever. i have to agree with this generally, though not in this particular case. britain is a doormat. and the thing is these people (and other foreigners in general) come here and they get everything, benefits, housing the lot all at the expense of the taxpayer. they dont complain about our so called "crusades" then do they? if theyre not happy they should fuck off back to their own countries. our government bends over backwards to accommodate foreign people to the point where we're actually losing our national indentities just so that we arent seen as "racist". im all for freedom of speech but where religion is concerned there's no such thing. people should not be protesting in the name of their god. its pointless, it doesnt achieve anything.

assuming these people work - theyve actually taken time off work to do this and theyre SO brave some of them had to cover their faces. the british government need to get a fucking grip and close the borders otherwise its gonna get to the point where the majority will be more than willing to see a bnp government. i know i would after reading this. these people are so hellbent on changing britain into whatever shithole theyve crawled out of, maybe we should punish them in the same way theyd be punished in their own countries. lets round them up and shoot them, or stone them to death, blow them up, gut them, hang them. it might make them think twice about the western world and the people who fought specifically in world war 2, since i dont think they fully conform to hitler's white, blond hair, blue eyed master race.

if they want to protest against soldiers being present in the middle east fair enough. i dont agree with it myself, but thats not what theyve done at all. this shit shouldnt be allowed at all, i can only speak for myself but its infuriating and im sure - in keeping with the general pattern - innocent, peaceful muslims will suffer for a small minority of idiots.

The burning of the flowers, though, is just a symbol. (I'm assuming we mean poppies as in the flowers, yes? I'm not hip to this particular British style, so correct me if I'm wrong.) Again, tactless and so forth, but ultimately harmless.

And as far as the South Park "dey tuk our jerbs (and benefits)" argument, that doesn't really have anything to do with British soldiers being in the Middle East, which is what they're protesting. If I move to France, then French soldiers invade the U.S. (I know, just go with it.), just because I'm living/working/paying taxes/sending my kids to school in France doesn't mean I lose my ties to my homeland. And if I feel that the French are wrong, you damn right I'm going to say I'm against it. So to begrudge these Middle Easterners for doing the same would be hypocritical.

The British Government has no business stepping in on anything in this situation (assuming no violence or physical/property damage, etc.) because you can't legislate against opinion, and that's to what suppressing these people would equate.

 

[Harlequin]

The British Government has no business stepping in on anything in this situation (assuming no violence or physical/property damage, etc.) because you can't legislate against opinion, and that's to what suppressing these people would equate.

That's a very naive attitude. Legislation is formed on perception and opinion. If the majority of the voting public (the British government) decide to kick these people out purely by virtue of having made the issue their business, it will happen and it will certainly be within their powers and business.

You might find it immoral, but the bottom line is if the gov want to take a hard line approach to it your argument doesn't hold water.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

If I move to France, then French soldiers invade the U.S. (I know, just go with it.), just because I'm living/working/paying taxes/sending my kids to school in France doesn't mean I lose my ties to my homeland. And if I feel that the French are wrong, you damn right I'm going to say I'm against it. So to begrudge these Middle Easterners for doing the same would be hypocritical.

just to make that particular bit clear. in all likelihood they are NOT working or paying taxes. theyre here at the expense of taxpayers. the relevance of this to what they think theyre protesting against is that if they dislike what our country has done/is doing so much why the fuck are they scrounging off us?

and the poppy may just be a symbol, but it isnt a religious symbol. at least in britain you'll find it very difficult to find someone who hasnt had relations killed in any of the wars before this sham in the middle east. they arent just insulting people of a specific religion or whatever, theyre insulting just about every british person in the world. if you were to go to a muslim country and do half the things these extremists do here, youd probly be jailed at the very least.

edit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html

Asad Ullah, 23, a spokesman for the group who would only say he was from London, said: "The British soldiers you remember on this day are soldiers who have taken innocent lives in illegal occupations and unjust wars.
"Our aim is not violence but if people come to us with violence, Muslims will defend themselves."
He added: "We will do this again. Until the British people condemn the British Government for these illegal wars, we will not stop protesting."
Posters bore slogans including "Hands off Muslim lands" and "Islam will dominate", and flags bore Arabic writing with the words "There is no God but Allah".


this has NOTHING to do with what theyre supposed to be protesting against. if people in this country want to believe in a god then they have that right, these people are coming here and trying to islamify everything. put them out their misery in the most painful way possible is what i say. anyone who bugs my happiness in the name of religion can "fuck off and die" for lack of a better phrase.

 

[Harlequin]

if you were to go to a muslim country and do half the things these extremists do here, youd probly be jailed at the very least.

I used to feel the same, but the bottom line is if you're a mug why shouldn't you be taken for one?

If Britain's gonna be a little bitch about it and let these kind of people walk all over them why should we feel sorry for ourselves?

Hiding behind the "we wouldn't be allowed to do it to you" excuse is weak and tired.

Ironically, this is the liberal Britain those very soldiers they protest against fought to give them.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

well its not as if the people can actually do anything. the government is a law unto itself. if it listened to the people we wouldnt have soldiers in the middle east. so its not a weak, tired "excuse". we cant do anything BUT complain about these arseholes and the arseholes we have for a government. bring on the bnp, yeah they might be racist but at least theres more chance of them sorting one of this country's biggest problems. none of the other cunts bother their arses with it.

 

[CassinoChips]

That's a very naive attitude. Legislation is formed on perception and opinion. If the majority of the voting public (the British government) decide to kick these people out purely by virtue of having made the issue their business, it will happen and it will certainly be within their powers and business.

You might find it immoral, but the bottom line is if the gov want to take a hard line approach to it your argument doesn't hold water.

I meant you can't legislate AGAINST opinion. As in just because someone is voicing an opinion you disagree with doesn't mean you have the right/authority to shut them down.

in all likelihood they are NOT working or paying taxes.

And it's just as likely they are working and paying taxes. Without proof either way, I don't see the validity of the argument. And even still, it's virtually an ad hominem argument. Their employment status doesn't change their argument. Either the British government is in the wrong for undertaking military actions in the Middle East, or they aren't. The status of a handful (or more) of Arab immigrants has no bearing on the actions of the military.

anyone who bugs my happiness in the name of religion can "fuck off and die" for lack of a better phrase.

I don't disagree.

 

[Harlequin]

I meant you can't legislate AGAINST opinion. As in just because someone is voicing an opinion you disagree with doesn't mean you have the right/authority to shut them down.

I think you've misread my post.

You can legislate AGAINST opinion, examples include but aren't limited to: Facist Spain and Italy, the Third Reich.

It can happen. If the British public decide to take this line of approach they can vote to gain the right/authority to do so. When you say you can't you're speaking from a moral angle, not a literal one.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Can't agree with this at all. We'd still be a British colony and/or a Native American homeland if the colonists had followed this mantra. People say things like this when they're the ones they want people to agree with. But as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, they're ranting and raving. (cross-reference: Conservatives pre-Obama and currently)

If you don't like the way something is done, you should speak out. Now, granted, these idiots are going about it in a horrendously tactless and distasteful manner. But they should have the right to voice their collective opinion, even if it flies in the face of the majority.

Do the goings on of the event somehow effect the rights and/or well being of everyone around it? Is it affecting these Radical Muslims somehow for these people to remember lost ones?


Obviously in a political situation; Yes, everyone needs to speak up.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

surely that would be legislating against the expression of certain opinions and not the actual opinions themselves.

you cant make it illegal for someone to think something because you dont know what theyre thinking...well you could but theres no way you could enforce the law unless they expressed the opinion.

 

[Harlequin]

well yeah exactly jim

i had made the argument on the assumption that he and i both meant the expression rather than simply thinking it up, seeing as the example was an expression (protest).

obviously if he decides that he didnt actually mean that he'll be right

....and boy will i have egg on my face

 

[coffeecup]

That's a very naive attitude. Legislation is formed on perception and opinion. If the majority of the voting public (the British government) decide to kick these people out purely by virtue of having made the issue their business, it will happen and it will certainly be within their powers and business.

You might find it immoral, but the bottom line is if the gov want to take a hard line approach to it your argument doesn't hold water.

Not necessarily true. I'm not too familiar with the governmental structure of England, but if Congress or the state legislature in the USA passed a bill or law that pretty much silenced protesters like this...it would quickly get killed by the judiciary (or more specifically the SCOTUS) as unconstitutional.

TTT is supporting one of the tenets of a liberal society (freedom of speech, expression, etc.. whatever) that CANNOT be limited by the government. Even where the majority wants to (unless by Amendment or something...which is really hard) do this, the Constitution disallows grevious infringements on individual rights by majority rule.

 

[Harlequin]

The constitution and the processes you've mentioned only exist as long as the people allow them to. If Americans decide to abolish the constitution it will happen, it's not as if it's impossible.

Of course you'd be talking about a complete reworking of the system, but it's not as if it's set in stone as 'fact' - like Mathematics for example.

 

[alternate]

ok 1st i want to say tht im muslim and im not racist and im not proud of what those ppl did , and tht kind of people gives bad rep to us.
so don't don't judge us for what they do and don't think we r all like tht cuz we r not there's good ppl like there's bad ones , and tbh there r extremists everywhere and in every religion , cuz it doesnt' depend on the religion it's on the person

 

[coffeecup]

The constitution and the processes you've mentioned only exist as long as the people allow them to. If Americans decide to abolish the constitution it will happen, it's not as if it's impossible.

Of course you'd be talking about a complete reworking of the system, but it's not as if it's set in stone as 'fact' - like Mathematics for example.

:/ Anything is possible. But when people are talking about solutions, you have to put them in perspective of what could actually be implemented in the world we're living in today. Not some alternate dimension where all the people magically unify toward some random view that doesn't reflect anything like the real world.

 

[Harlequin]

I agree, but the sentiment in Britain is indeed stopping the message these protesters are conveying. I'd say they're fully within their rights to do so, but from what I hear the vast majority of Britain want to silence them using legal processes, which flies in the face of the freedoms they trumpet.

It can happen, but not without a hint of hypocracy from those who would implement such legislations.

 

[CassinoChips]

coffeecup hit it head-on. Curtailing the liberties of a group of protestors simply because of what they are saying is a step backwards in the evolution of government. In a society based on a Constitution that protects individual liberties, which I'm fairly certain England's does, though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, you cannot suppress an opinion in that manner. Disagree, counter-protest, call them idiots, do whatever you like. But the government should go nowhere near this.

Do the goings on of the event somehow effect the rights and/or well being of everyone around it?

No. It might make them angry, uncomfortable, sad, or whatever. But it does not prevent them from participating in the holiday, or going about their daily business. Unless they choose to allow it to do so.

Is it affecting these Radical Muslims somehow for these people to remember lost ones?

They have made the choice to protest. They have chosen to allow it to affect them.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

But does every nation not say: If you dont like it, get the hell out"? It's all the same ballgame. You either deal with 'it' or deal with the 'consequences'// or get out

 

[Shu]

Not necessarily true. I'm not too familiar with the governmental structure of England, but if Congress or the state legislature in the USA passed a bill or law that pretty much silenced protesters like this...it would quickly get killed by the judiciary (or more specifically the SCOTUS) as unconstitutional.

And this is how Hitler came to power. He thought it was a good idea to rebel against the system, and then rallied a few people and marched on his own land to the very gates. History can not be taken lightly. No offense these people should be silenced in every fashionable measure.

It's one thing to think it, it's another thing to display forms of disrespect. 1) If these people did come to the UK to get jobs, and by these people I mean the foreigners, how the hell do you think they should have the right to burn poppies and disrespect the dead?

There are lines crossed in this instance in every form of fashion. As Jim said at the very least would you be put in jail if you did this in their country. In my opinion at the very least would your head be severed from your body.

I understand ya'lls logic with.. well what if I was a foreigner, and my country was at war with your country.. well I would have my opinions, but I wouldn't burn a damn poppy on anti-armistice day or come at the entire government that's sheer ignorance. I agree foreigners have rights too, but when lines are crossed, then only then should they be silenced. In my "OPINION!" these folks crossed several lines with this. I don't think they should have the "Shielding" rights of a home grown UKer does.

I close this by saying.. Ignorance should not be rewarded, and this is very ignorant:

Asad Ullah, 23, a spokesman for the group who would only say he was from London, said: "The British soldiers you remember on this day are soldiers who have taken innocent lives in illegal occupations and unjust wars.