Best President

[Daenerys]

I think the original president would've rebuiilt the company immediately instead of sitting on his ass for two years.

You have to take into account that Rufus had Geostigma, and therefore probably couldn't restore his company, all the while keeping Jenovas head secret from Kadaj and co. I think that if president Shinra got Geostigma, he'd be using money everywhere to try and find a cure - but only for himself, and he'd probably sacrifice the head of Jenova to Kadaj if he lied and said he could cure Geostigma in a trade for the head.

 

[JDawg]

Advent Children aside...in the actual game...

President Shinra was far more successful than Rufus. He built Shinra to what it was, and while Rufus might have eventuall done just as much, he didn't have the chance. You can't "what if" this one. It's just like saying John Kennedy was the best President...you simply can't know, because there wasn't enough time.

 

[Vivi-Gamer]

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[Skill Saw]

Hmm... I'd honestly have to say Rufus.

President Shinra liked to keep the masses under control using his money... Rufus saw this as a waste of resources, so when he became the president, he decided to resort to military force. After all, the Wutai war began when he was 6, and he was constantly sent on so called business trips to Junon -- which is Shinra's main Military base, so its not a suprise that Rufus became military minded as he grew older. Anyway, you can't say that President Shinra was a better president, since at the moment he was killed, Shinra had hell on their hands. Rufus had to deal with Sephiroth at the same time as preventing the masses from getting out of control. During Before Crisis, his father had to deal with an AVALANCHE rebellion after the war, but during that time he nearly went out of his mind, while Rufus, during meteorfall (his presidency), remained composed as possible. In Advent Children, Rufus cleverly took on Kadaj, which eventually lead to his brave showdown by jumping off the building. After that, Kadaj gets the head, he depended on Cloud to take on him. I mean seriously, how could he have held onto the head for any longer -- he would have gotten killed.

I'm not saying that President Shinra was a dumb-ass, though. He was great at predicting human nature, and built Shinra from the ground up in very little time. However, he was frivilous and uptight, unlike Rufus. He was also easily sweet-talked by Heidegger, while Rufus saw through his incompetence and treated him coldly.

his father also didn't go power hungry over some "promised land"

Quite on the contrary, really. President Shinra's main concern was to capture Aeris, in order to find the promise land. With the abundant mako there, he would be able to carry on with his plans to build a Neo-midgar. Very greedy indeed. It was right there in the script -- you can't miss it.


And Ultima, you can learn a lot about the both of them, by reading FFVII Ultimate Omega, and the script to Before Crisis.

 

[Edward Elric]

i liked rufus much better. his father was just a power-hungry maniac driven by his stupid selfish ambitions. sure, he was responsible for shinra's rise to power, but look how he ended up...face down on his desk with a masamune in his back. rufus was actually a normal human, with morals, who actually cared about the planet.. as we see in AC. also, if you read MoTP, i don't see how you could like president shinra in the least bit.

 

[Sephirothalpha]

I think its a bit unfair to judge,we never really learnt much about President Shinra iin FF7......come to think of it i dont even know is name!, i think what this topic coems down to is do you like Rufus or not.

I think his name is actually President Shinra, the game doesnt give another name. Maybe Crisis Core will give more info on him.

 

[JDawg]

President Shinra liked to keep the masses under control using his money... Rufus saw this as a waste of resources, so when he became the president, he decided to resort to military force.

The whole problem with that POV is Rufus' decision to go with military might rather than money and influence cost him everything. Rufus' tenure as President amounted to nothing, while his father built the company from the ground up. President Shinra was by far the better president. No question.

The only argument you can make against President Shinra is that he doomed the company (and nearly the world) by involving Hojo. It could be said that Rufus didn't have a chance to change anything for the "better", because his father had, by proxy, introduced Sephiroth to the world.

 

[eisprinz]

I don't see how people say that Rufus had any better morals. Rufus didn't care about the Planet until Meteor, and I'm pretty the old president would've felt repentant as well under that situation.

The old president did keep the people opressed using his money. But he actually attempted to win them over - you can see this at Kalm where people talk about how much they appreciate ShinRa and Mako energy.

Rufus explicitly states during the battle at the top of ShinRa HQ that he doesn't care about what the people think of him. He thinks winning over the people takes too long, and outright says that he will control the world using fear.

Both the old president and Rufus are equally corrupt, so it comes down to what you think is worse: a president lying to you so you'll be happy and like his company, or a president who'll have you shot on the spot if you say something bad about ShinRa.

 

[eisprinz]

I would say Rufus.

Wasn't his father a moneyhog/user? When Rufus said he was going to control the people with fear,and not money,he seemed like he knew what he was doing and as a president,you should know what your actions are.

I guess it depends on whether you think of the question as "Who filled the job of president better" or "Who was a better person during their presidency".

 

[JDawg]

They were both scumbags, though.

When Rufus said he was going to control the people with fear,and not money,he seemed like he knew what he was doing and as a president,you should know what your actions are.

You mean to say that the first President didn't know what his actions were? I don't get it. Makes no sense.

Anyway, Rufus lasted about a week as President, and he didn't accomplish anything at all. He said he'd control with fear, but how much controlling did he do? Almost none.

It wasn't Rufus.

 

[Sephirothalpha]

Rufus lasted longer than a week, he is still president in Advent Children.

 

[JDawg]

Ah, I see that we're accepting Advent Children into the cannon, despite the fact that it isn't a game and that it sucked butt royally.

Well, I don't take AC into account, because it isn't a game. It's a movie adaptation of what happened after the Meteor, but it isn't a sequal. Not in my opinion.

I believe that Rufus died in FFVII.

 

[Sephirothalpha]

Advent Children is great and part of the FFVII franchise. Whether you like it or not Rufus survived.

 

[JDawg]

OK, it being "great" is your opinion. And it's completely up to ME if I want to include it in the mythos. It's not a video game, and was SUCH an afterthought that I don't have to consider it as a part of the FFVII story.

And as far as the game goes, we don't know if Rufus survived.

 

[eisprinz]

Yeah, like anybody could really believe that Rufus avoided WEAPON's attack. "Duck and cover" doesn't always work, mind you.

 

[Sephirothalpha]

Advent children is a continuation of the FFVII story and in it Rufus survives. Its official.

 

[JDawg]

I never questioned the fact that Square was behind it. But my whole point is that in the game, it is made clear that Rufus and his crew dies.

LATER, for monetary purposes, the idiots at Square decided to make a movie, and brought Rufus back. It's all BS, in my opinion. It's validity as a continuation isn't in question--but I don't have to like it, or accept it.

TO ME...TO ME...IN MY OPINION...FFVII ends at the end of the game. Forever. That's how I want to remember it. And I'm not one of the idiotic fanboys who just drools over some half-assed piece of crap flick that was only made for them to jerk off to. It is complete garbage compared to the game, and the story is weak. Rufus should not have lived, Geostigma is stupid, and Cloud having a delivery service is pretty lame, too. Gunblades in FFVII just proves that they weren't trying to be true to the mythos, rather that they were just trying to be "cool".

The film sucked. The people who like it are generally the same people who want to see VII remade, as if it wasn't good enough the way it is.

 

[Sephirothalpha]

Where in the game does it make clear that Rufus dies? You see weapon shoot at him but you dont actually see him lying dead.

And the film didnt suck, loads of people like it. I know people who havent played VII and love it because of the fight scenes. You obviously dont know a good movie when you see one.

 

[eisprinz]

And the film didnt suck, loads of people like it. I know people who havent played VII and love it because of the fight scenes.

There's a difference between a good movie and eye-candy. Fight scenes don't equate to a good movie - perhaps entertaining, but ultimately if they had no true plot value, then they don't say much about anything thematic. Otherwise people would win academy awards all the time for two-hours worth of car crashes and graphic sex.

Hardly anything in that movie really meant something. There was a bit of symbolism, intentional ambiguity, and the tone was consistent and developed... but just barely. The plot was nothing better than a wet dream for a FFVII fanboy.

 

[JDawg]

I admit that the enjoyability of Advent Children comes down to a matter of opinion. That's fine. But as Eisprinz says, the movie wasn't really intended to be a "good movie" as much as it was intended to be a doped-up anime. It was masturbatory and hollow. That is a fact.

Where in the game does it make clear that Rufus dies?

You obviously don't see Rufus dead, but why would you have to? Before you saw Advent Children, what would you have said Rufus' fate was? At the very, very least you would have to say that his death was strongly implied.

You see weapon shoot at him but you dont actually see him lying dead.

Well, what more do you want? The point was to show that the earth was stronger than the forces that tried to exploit it--namely, Shinra. And honestly, aside from showing a body, what more could they have done to show that he was dead?

Advent Children wasn't something they planned from the start. It was just a sign of Square's new approach to business. They wanted to capitalize on the success of the game, and so they finally appeased the fanboys by making a movie. If you asked them at the completion of FFVII, I doubt even the developers would have said Rufus survived.

And the film didnt suck, loads of people like it

That is an oxymoron, my friend. Popularity does not indicate quality. Loads of people liked N'Sync, too, but were they good? No, they were a creation of the industry, singing lyrics they didn't write, on tracks that are vocally-enchanced by computers.

Just because a bunch of people liked Advent Children does not mean it was a good movie.

I know people who havent played VII and love it because of the fight scenes.

If that's all they liked about the game, then they missed what made the game great: The story. Final Fantasy VII was the first game on the Playstation to tell an adult story with such depth, and make no mistakes along the way. Clearly, these characters have lasted longer in the fan's hearts than any other characters in gaming history, and if your buddies only liked it because of the fight scenes, I'm sorry that they missed the point.

The battle system reached its creative peak, and was executed to perfection, and the cinematic scenes in the game were top-notch and beautifully done. There was plenty to love about the game along with the story, but take the story out, and what have you got?

...come to think of it, you've got Advent Children!

[You obviously dont know a good movie when you see one./QUOTE]

Let's not make this personal. Like I've already said, if you enjoyed the movie, that's wonderful. I'm glad for you, honestly. The most I've accused anyone who liked this movie of is of being the same breed who want to see a remake of the original game, and nothing else. If anything, poor taste is implied, but even then, it's all a matter of opinion.

I would lke to think I know quality when I see it. At the same time, I admit that I enjoy things that are hokey and cheezy just as much as anyone else. I like pro wrestling, and watch Kevin Smith movies, no matter how much they are critically hammered. But the difference is that I know when something I'm watching or playing is bad. I don't sugarcoat it or defend it by accusing others of not knowing good movies when they see them...

I own up to my corny tastes when the time comes. People who enjoy Advent Children need to do the same, and also need to understand the unqillingness of some to accept it as cannon. Some dismiss it as a shallow cash cow with no artistic value, and you guys need to understand that.