It's okay Sheechiibii has already cleared it up.
Yush
welcome. i hope the lions dont bite as much as they support clerith.
Cleriths are Lions ?
Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII
- Thread starter The Witch
- Start date
- Tagged users None
It's okay Sheechiibii has already cleared it up.
Yush
Cleriths are Lions ?
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
alright ; D
haha! gotta use that phrase XD
LOL XDDDDD well, when they apply their "canon" views.....it gets pretteh gross lol
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
another article i am most eager to talk about is below : D
alright, so one of the clerith points is of tifas platonic feelings towards cloud; as a mother.
they get this idea from these quotes:
(1.
(2.
obviously, i shall go in chronological order of the quotes.
for one thing, in english, the words say "she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud", while in japanese, it says "Also looks after Cloud" like marlene and denzel. a woman would do that naturally, due by her feelings for anyone she loves. secondly, if you would like to keep all the english translation, there are quite a few things that should be pointed out.
i shall requote nomora's sayings:
1. what does he mean by aerith's maternal feelings? if you look into aerith's profile (http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/604/aerith-gainsborough-character-profile-p48-51/) you will see this:
alright, so we know aerith's motherly feelings, so how does tifa's differ? she most certainly does not watch over the entire planet, and we can hardly expect her to do so.
but she does have a motherly way of looking over marlene and denzel, and watches over cloud with a certain motherly bond with him, specific, or special, motherly feelings. if it was purely motherly feelings, there would have been absolutely no need to place "certain" before it, we can all be sure of that. in case this doesnt make sense, nomura says right after this that cloud is a "big kid" himself in some respects, or sometimes his personality is of that way. if one refuses to admit tifa's not-so-completely motherly feelings for cloud, they would also have to agree that cloud acts 100% like a child, which - although quite hilarious and/or enjoyable to think about - is quite silly.
2. tifa's motherly feelings may come to a surprise to you coming from a cloti such as me, but i welcome this. in fact, its absolutely wonderful she feels this way. i 100% support this feelings.
why? because this is what a woman (in this sense, wife) should feel about her love (or husband). it is in no way weird for a wife to feel these things. sometimes (my mother would argue most of the time) men just act like nothing but children. tifa should feel this way. its only natural. there are just too many jokes about marriage to ignore this. such jokes about men were very, very popular in comedies in the '50s and '60s.
for example, there is an episode from an insanely popular show in the '50s called "I Love Lucy" when Lucy's husband gets a sore throat or cold (the point of it was that it wasnt a serious illness and could be cured within the week) and basically acted like a 5yr old who had caught it for the first time in his life. he exaggerated his sickness by wheezing his voice around, and acted as if his throat illness had something to do with his physical strength.
Ricky (Lucy's husband) then retired to bed (as if it's that bad) and whined for her nursing for every single thing: water, breakfast (his breakfast menu kept getting bigger and bigger despite his fatal attitude towards his illness), juice, and even "required" a heating pad for his stomach. Lucy listened and followed his whims, all the while talking with her best friend about how babyish he was acting, straight up like a toddler, and how men act like this all around. she was - almost literally - acting out a mother figure to Ricky.
most childishly - and the pin point of the comedy part of the show - Ricky was actually being forced to eat his medicine with a spoon, frantically moving his head like a baby would if it was trying to escape the terrible taste of baby food. in the end, his wife had to hold his nose, making him open his mouth in a last attempt to get air, and shove it in. of course, Ricky's face turned to a face of utter disgust and complained some more. although reluctant to help her sickly, almost "tortured" husband, Lucy helped him anyway because she loved him. plus, there times when she enjoyed this little switcheroo of her role.
to think Lucy would forever want a motherly relationship with her husband from that point on would be a bit silly, even though she enjoyed it. she had a moment of motherly feelings, but there was no reason for her to have to continue them from that day on.
another example is a cartoon of the '60s, The Flintstones, which is very well known for making marriage jokes. in fact, on this 6th season episode im referring to was especially about marriages and spouses. although most things like this is very frequent in every season of the episodes, the main character, Fred, had found out that his newspaper didnt arrive at his house, and broke out into a fitting cry of "I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT!!!!!!!" and cried like a 2yr old. his wife, Wilma, then treated him in a motherly way and said in a very patronizing tone, "Ok, sweetie, just wait until dinner is ready and then you talk to Arnold, alright?"
"Ok Wilma," Fred replied, as if all the problems in the world were solved.
of course, this is exaggerated a lot, but for what reason would this joke be in The Flintstones if it were not that men sometimes (or most of the time, take your pick) act like children? the joke would be fruitless. nobody would get it.
it would hardly be expected for Wilma to keep wanting a child-like Fred (as frequent as that is) for the rest of her marriage.
future tip for marriages: if your husband acts likes a child, its not just your husband. its just what goes with growing marriages and probably wont end.
as i have said before, clouds acting like a child and tifa catching onto it and emerging herself in the motherly feeling is absolutely natural and is very good in relationships like this. in fact, i doubt cloud would act like that with - or to - anyone else. acting in such a way shows he is very comfortable (and maybe even vulnerable) around tifa. in a way, he trusts her completely, if not a lot. he depends a lot on her,thus is why S/E says she has an incredibly strong personality to match her strength, and cloud sometimes acts like a "big kid". and i silently applauded her in my heart when i read it her "new" feeling.
now, to support my reason of tifas motherly feelings about cloud, ill move onto this quote:
1. as we can see, tifa was still struggling to understand the family feelings about cloud, and she thought maybe this was how it felt. but she had only experienced a bit of the relationship. she still wasnt sure, though, because she thought that maybe this is what she should feel like. as we can tell from multiple times in the book, she makes all these guesses what families should be like, and everytime she thinks of them, her views change constantly. so it wouldnt be surprising that her feelings would, too. tifa's platonic feelings - as expected - wore off fast, and she could no longer hold onto her ideal of seeing cloud like a little kid (or "big kid", as nomura said it). she wanted to take walks together just with him, but pushed down her "selfishness". she tried to start up conversations but didnt know exactly what to say. then she couldnt take it anymore and just straight out asked him did he love her.
this should be proof enough that tifa's platonic feelings are gone, or very, very dormant. there is nothing in the book that proves that tifa was satisfied with her motherly feelings forever and told cloud. if she truly felt motherly about him, this is incredibly important. a serious change has happened with the relationship, and tifa would have been sure to report to cloud of how she felt now.
but she didnt. therefore the question of "Do you love me?" isnt "Do you love me as a mother?" it was seen as "Do you romantically love me anymore?" or else it would have been insanely stupid for her to think cloud thinks of her question as platonic when she didnt say a word about her new feelings, making the relationship change.
this is just a terrible idea of a family in general. so tifa is living as a single mother now, with a perfectly capable 21 year old man living with her with two children? this is enough to make someone laugh of throw up. this is utterly ridiculous to think this as an idea of a family, let alone how tifa wants it. i mean, tifa isnt stupid. most likely she knows of johnny, and she could have easily asked him to be the father figure. no doubt he would have happily joined her. but she didnt. the ideal of the book was tifa's desire to have a family with only one man: Cloud Strife. thus the joke of love,marriage, and family being noted - with no pressures to - while talking about her book.
2. furthermore, lets not forget this part of her book:
if tifa had finally decided that she would take over the entire family by herself, she most definitely wouldnt have said "our home". she would have said "this home" or "my home". one cant expect a person to take care of a home he isnt even head of.
moreover she began to find excuses for denzel not paying special attention to her as much as cloud as in "maybe this is just families". then seeing cloud with denzel and marlene, she recognized that he looked like a "young father with his two children", and her feelings were awoken, if they werent already.
3. and for the people who will insist on tifas motherly platonic feelings for cloud, this undoubtedly turns it otherwise. look at the following quotes:
notice that when S/E says that tifas feelings are still complicated even when aerith was dead, and immediately explains its not because of his wanting to be with aerith more than her - in fact, its quite the opposite. tifa doesnt know this (who would?) and therefore thinks not only is his guilt making him leave, but maybe aerith is involved more than she wants it to be.
quote 2:
now for some questions: this is loads after her "new" feelings. so why would tifa - who still supposedly feels motherly towards cloud - act jealous of the connections of cloud and aeriths? although we know cloud just feels a mammoth amount of guilt for her, she thinks its just preferring. why would she feel this way? if she thinks of him as a son or friend, absolutely no jealously should be there. yet she is. tifa had clearly given up on her 100% motherly ideal long ago. sure she wants him home, but wouldnt you think she would worry less about aerith and more on family? yet she is struggling about both.
and we have this quote: (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=122&more=1)
or take this quote:
surely tifa shouldnt be that hurt to be left by her man if she no longer feels that way about him. and what about this?
as i have said above, tifa gave zilcho reports to cloud that she felt motherly/platonic towards him. so these "plainly expressed feelings" would have to be love, following common logic.
one last point: its also been said that marlene has some of tifa and aerith inside of her. would that mean she is completely like them? so she has no personality of her own? would that mean she is motherly towards denzel all the time, if at all? she just has some elements of them both, with her own.
so yes, there is no denying tifa has motherly feelings towards cloud - specific feelings, but - like any wife would (and should) behave - she wants more than just that. thats not saying she doesnt get it, but my point is that she desires more than a platonic relationship with cloud.
alright, so one of the clerith points is of tifas platonic feelings towards cloud; as a mother.
they get this idea from these quotes:
(1.
(2.
obviously, i shall go in chronological order of the quotes.
for one thing, in english, the words say "she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud", while in japanese, it says "Also looks after Cloud" like marlene and denzel. a woman would do that naturally, due by her feelings for anyone she loves. secondly, if you would like to keep all the english translation, there are quite a few things that should be pointed out.
i shall requote nomora's sayings:
1. what does he mean by aerith's maternal feelings? if you look into aerith's profile (http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/604/aerith-gainsborough-character-profile-p48-51/) you will see this:
alright, so we know aerith's motherly feelings, so how does tifa's differ? she most certainly does not watch over the entire planet, and we can hardly expect her to do so.
but she does have a motherly way of looking over marlene and denzel, and watches over cloud with a certain motherly bond with him, specific, or special, motherly feelings. if it was purely motherly feelings, there would have been absolutely no need to place "certain" before it, we can all be sure of that. in case this doesnt make sense, nomura says right after this that cloud is a "big kid" himself in some respects, or sometimes his personality is of that way. if one refuses to admit tifa's not-so-completely motherly feelings for cloud, they would also have to agree that cloud acts 100% like a child, which - although quite hilarious and/or enjoyable to think about - is quite silly.
2. tifa's motherly feelings may come to a surprise to you coming from a cloti such as me, but i welcome this. in fact, its absolutely wonderful she feels this way. i 100% support this feelings.
why? because this is what a woman (in this sense, wife) should feel about her love (or husband). it is in no way weird for a wife to feel these things. sometimes (my mother would argue most of the time) men just act like nothing but children. tifa should feel this way. its only natural. there are just too many jokes about marriage to ignore this. such jokes about men were very, very popular in comedies in the '50s and '60s.
for example, there is an episode from an insanely popular show in the '50s called "I Love Lucy" when Lucy's husband gets a sore throat or cold (the point of it was that it wasnt a serious illness and could be cured within the week) and basically acted like a 5yr old who had caught it for the first time in his life. he exaggerated his sickness by wheezing his voice around, and acted as if his throat illness had something to do with his physical strength.
Ricky (Lucy's husband) then retired to bed (as if it's that bad) and whined for her nursing for every single thing: water, breakfast (his breakfast menu kept getting bigger and bigger despite his fatal attitude towards his illness), juice, and even "required" a heating pad for his stomach. Lucy listened and followed his whims, all the while talking with her best friend about how babyish he was acting, straight up like a toddler, and how men act like this all around. she was - almost literally - acting out a mother figure to Ricky.
most childishly - and the pin point of the comedy part of the show - Ricky was actually being forced to eat his medicine with a spoon, frantically moving his head like a baby would if it was trying to escape the terrible taste of baby food. in the end, his wife had to hold his nose, making him open his mouth in a last attempt to get air, and shove it in. of course, Ricky's face turned to a face of utter disgust and complained some more. although reluctant to help her sickly, almost "tortured" husband, Lucy helped him anyway because she loved him. plus, there times when she enjoyed this little switcheroo of her role.
to think Lucy would forever want a motherly relationship with her husband from that point on would be a bit silly, even though she enjoyed it. she had a moment of motherly feelings, but there was no reason for her to have to continue them from that day on.
another example is a cartoon of the '60s, The Flintstones, which is very well known for making marriage jokes. in fact, on this 6th season episode im referring to was especially about marriages and spouses. although most things like this is very frequent in every season of the episodes, the main character, Fred, had found out that his newspaper didnt arrive at his house, and broke out into a fitting cry of "I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT!!!!!!!" and cried like a 2yr old. his wife, Wilma, then treated him in a motherly way and said in a very patronizing tone, "Ok, sweetie, just wait until dinner is ready and then you talk to Arnold, alright?"
"Ok Wilma," Fred replied, as if all the problems in the world were solved.
of course, this is exaggerated a lot, but for what reason would this joke be in The Flintstones if it were not that men sometimes (or most of the time, take your pick) act like children? the joke would be fruitless. nobody would get it.
it would hardly be expected for Wilma to keep wanting a child-like Fred (as frequent as that is) for the rest of her marriage.
future tip for marriages: if your husband acts likes a child, its not just your husband. its just what goes with growing marriages and probably wont end.
as i have said before, clouds acting like a child and tifa catching onto it and emerging herself in the motherly feeling is absolutely natural and is very good in relationships like this. in fact, i doubt cloud would act like that with - or to - anyone else. acting in such a way shows he is very comfortable (and maybe even vulnerable) around tifa. in a way, he trusts her completely, if not a lot. he depends a lot on her,thus is why S/E says she has an incredibly strong personality to match her strength, and cloud sometimes acts like a "big kid". and i silently applauded her in my heart when i read it her "new" feeling.
now, to support my reason of tifas motherly feelings about cloud, ill move onto this quote:
1. as we can see, tifa was still struggling to understand the family feelings about cloud, and she thought maybe this was how it felt. but she had only experienced a bit of the relationship. she still wasnt sure, though, because she thought that maybe this is what she should feel like. as we can tell from multiple times in the book, she makes all these guesses what families should be like, and everytime she thinks of them, her views change constantly. so it wouldnt be surprising that her feelings would, too. tifa's platonic feelings - as expected - wore off fast, and she could no longer hold onto her ideal of seeing cloud like a little kid (or "big kid", as nomura said it). she wanted to take walks together just with him, but pushed down her "selfishness". she tried to start up conversations but didnt know exactly what to say. then she couldnt take it anymore and just straight out asked him did he love her.
this should be proof enough that tifa's platonic feelings are gone, or very, very dormant. there is nothing in the book that proves that tifa was satisfied with her motherly feelings forever and told cloud. if she truly felt motherly about him, this is incredibly important. a serious change has happened with the relationship, and tifa would have been sure to report to cloud of how she felt now.
but she didnt. therefore the question of "Do you love me?" isnt "Do you love me as a mother?" it was seen as "Do you romantically love me anymore?" or else it would have been insanely stupid for her to think cloud thinks of her question as platonic when she didnt say a word about her new feelings, making the relationship change.
this is just a terrible idea of a family in general. so tifa is living as a single mother now, with a perfectly capable 21 year old man living with her with two children? this is enough to make someone laugh of throw up. this is utterly ridiculous to think this as an idea of a family, let alone how tifa wants it. i mean, tifa isnt stupid. most likely she knows of johnny, and she could have easily asked him to be the father figure. no doubt he would have happily joined her. but she didnt. the ideal of the book was tifa's desire to have a family with only one man: Cloud Strife. thus the joke of love,marriage, and family being noted - with no pressures to - while talking about her book.
2. furthermore, lets not forget this part of her book:
if tifa had finally decided that she would take over the entire family by herself, she most definitely wouldnt have said "our home". she would have said "this home" or "my home". one cant expect a person to take care of a home he isnt even head of.
moreover she began to find excuses for denzel not paying special attention to her as much as cloud as in "maybe this is just families". then seeing cloud with denzel and marlene, she recognized that he looked like a "young father with his two children", and her feelings were awoken, if they werent already.
3. and for the people who will insist on tifas motherly platonic feelings for cloud, this undoubtedly turns it otherwise. look at the following quotes:
notice that when S/E says that tifas feelings are still complicated even when aerith was dead, and immediately explains its not because of his wanting to be with aerith more than her - in fact, its quite the opposite. tifa doesnt know this (who would?) and therefore thinks not only is his guilt making him leave, but maybe aerith is involved more than she wants it to be.
quote 2:
now for some questions: this is loads after her "new" feelings. so why would tifa - who still supposedly feels motherly towards cloud - act jealous of the connections of cloud and aeriths? although we know cloud just feels a mammoth amount of guilt for her, she thinks its just preferring. why would she feel this way? if she thinks of him as a son or friend, absolutely no jealously should be there. yet she is. tifa had clearly given up on her 100% motherly ideal long ago. sure she wants him home, but wouldnt you think she would worry less about aerith and more on family? yet she is struggling about both.
and we have this quote: (http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=122&more=1)
or take this quote:
surely tifa shouldnt be that hurt to be left by her man if she no longer feels that way about him. and what about this?
as i have said above, tifa gave zilcho reports to cloud that she felt motherly/platonic towards him. so these "plainly expressed feelings" would have to be love, following common logic.
one last point: its also been said that marlene has some of tifa and aerith inside of her. would that mean she is completely like them? so she has no personality of her own? would that mean she is motherly towards denzel all the time, if at all? she just has some elements of them both, with her own.
so yes, there is no denying tifa has motherly feelings towards cloud - specific feelings, but - like any wife would (and should) behave - she wants more than just that. thats not saying she doesnt get it, but my point is that she desires more than a platonic relationship with cloud.
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NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
*facepalm*
so i have to repeat myself AGAIN huh? well fine......
i could note that aeriths death was based off a death of a platonic loved one during the teams' production of the game, but i wont go there.
i have absolutely no harm saying that cloud loves aerith. in fact, i have used those EXACT words kitase used. "very much". its you cleriths that think if cloud blinks twice at her and winks "ZOMG ITS TRUE LOVE!!!!" yes, he loves her. yes he loves her very much.
but its been said by S/E theirselves that aerith is a friend and companion to all of them. nothing else. if such a personal word as "lover" was actually true for cloud, why is it that its not noted at all? why is it that the two people dear to him that arent on gaia anymore are aerith AND zack? why is it that he feels the same colossal guilt about zack as much as aerith? and why is it that mostly everyone knows that cloud has his love for aerith but its not romantic? why is THIS asked if clerith was "obvious"?
it has been (and always will be) blatantly obvious that cloud loves tifa. in fact, so much that the interviewer has admitted to saying that cloud does, and asks if there WERE no tifa - meaning if she was taken out completely - WOULD there even be enough evidence to show he is IN love with aerith how he is with tifa. basically he asked could there be a CHANCE for clerith IF tifa was dragged out of the game. we know full well cloud loves aerith "very much". if he didnt love her he wouldnt have felt guilty! but he has his love for her as the same as zack, because he felt guilty about him too. but then again it must be hard to imagine he feels the same for zack since cleriths basically ban him from the history of VII like he doesnt exist to make it seem like cloud cares only for aerith.
in fact, when cloud thinks or sees aerith, there is almost always zack next to her. he feels the guilt about someone he loves very much, as well as zack. news flash: you dont feel guilt over someone you dont give two owl hoots about. moreover his feelings for her are instantly put next to zack, them being two people that were very dear to him (again using the word "very"). and the idea that aerith gave denzel to him - this is simply a theory from cloud and tifa, it has not been literally proven that she actually has done this - as a son for her and cloud is wrong, because cloud has been said his feelings for tifa,marlene, and denzel are his family. it said nothing of only denzel and aerith being in his family. the word "family" isnt even associated with aerith at all, and only when he utters "mother" is given how cloud feels about her differs from zack. if you want aerith to be in his family in the least,(to me, he was simply kidding) this is it.
that being said, when nomura said when cloud and tifa would be together AFTER he said he was 100% sure of this, he says after this "everybody would be where they belonged". at the end of the movie, cloud is with his family, friends, and aerith goes back to the lifestream with zack, where they belong, signifying their re-reunion at the end. its rather obvious that they are back together without even noting what nomura said.
i may add more to this later on.
=============
speaking of adding later on.....
I'm Blue where are you? you said you would add more to your points....but you havent talked since. if its being tentative if the LTD i understand though.
hope you havent forgotten me Callisto, because i sill await your reply.
oh gosh dont tell me you are offended....because...i didnt mean it....
Cloud loves Aerith because Nomura said Cloud has his own undying love for her that is different from their friend's platonic love. Cloud loves Aerith because Nojima said Cloud was Aerith's LOVER in an official novella. Cloud loves Aerith because three commercials say they're a love story. Cloud loves Aerith and not Tifa because Cloud accepts and goes on not one but TWO dates with Aerith. Cloud loves Aerith because he said the world's destruction (which includes Tifa dying) didn't matter to him any more now that Aerith wasn't alive--this means Cloud essentially did not care if TIFA died due to Seph's plan all because AERITH was dead. Cloud did not care if Tifa died all because Aerith was gone. Cloud has said that the only reason he wanted to save the planet was FOR Aerith. I know, I know... the HW scene shows Cloud boinking Tifa on pointy rocks while everyone watched and yanked it to them. That's totally what happened! Whatever you have to tell yourself. When Clotis apply their "canon" views I have to admit, it gets pretty gross! 
Oh, and of course the mods ignore my reports and you get away with acting the way you do and I'm expected to just suck it up.
Golly gee, now I wonder why the majority of members have now left the forum! Couldn't possibly be because of the way certain people handle these situations!
EDIT: also since some genius deleted my post allow me to inform you why I don't reply to you; you are hard to follow with the way you write, you are condescending, you do not know how to debate (all you do is repost the same thing over and over again or c&p what someone else said), you won't accept canon information, and you refuse to reply to what I've said.
tl;dr: you're not worth my hard work.
Oh, and of course the mods ignore my reports and you get away with acting the way you do and I'm expected to just suck it up.
Golly gee, now I wonder why the majority of members have now left the forum! Couldn't possibly be because of the way certain people handle these situations!
EDIT: also since some genius deleted my post allow me to inform you why I don't reply to you; you are hard to follow with the way you write, you are condescending, you do not know how to debate (all you do is repost the same thing over and over again or c&p what someone else said), you won't accept canon information, and you refuse to reply to what I've said.
tl;dr: you're not worth my hard work.
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
hold your pants missie. he said it was an undying FEELING, not love (romantic anyway). that was said before AC, and we later find its nothing - absolutely nothing - but guilt.
that was said according to aerith. how HER feelings for cloud are. wasnt that said in maiden? i dunno :T but anyway it was from her views of things.
where is the word "lover"?
reaaaaally. :/ come on 'listo. you can do better than that. now you KNOW commercials do NOT count. and there is overflowing proof of commercials lying right to your face. if you demand proof about it, ill give it gladly.
wasnt it one? and didnt S/E say that, unlike the HA HW scene, all of the dates are optional? anyway aerith MADE cloud come with her for the dates. cloud never proposed this idea to her.
and i find it funny that cloud and tifa didnt date at all but started a family with each other soon after their feelings for each other were revealed and confirmed. XD just sayin'.
really now? >.> because i have the script right here.
so...when did cloud say that?
uh, no. he was certainly saving the planet for aerith, he said so, but it wasnt only for her. his true reason for fighting was for tifa.
"boinking"...that word is being thrown around here a lot. at least to me :T
.......whatever im telling myself?
.....seems pretty straight forward to anyone.
and it wasnt on rocks. i never said it was.
and i didnt say that everyone watched. nobody watched. they all got the idea. i mean, they were the only ones left, and the last time they saw him was him saying "find your reason." and the next day they see him grinning and acting warmly to people. they didnt need to watch anything. cid was teasing them because he knew. he just saw both of them very close to each other and put 2 and 2 together. dear gosh do you think everyone watched? really?
im very sorry to hear that.
i didnt know. its not my fault! >.<yea i wonder why......
not my fault.
how?
it i think swearing up a storm is slightly more offensive when your very first post on this thread said no cursing.
dude, i made 2 whole articles with 90% of my own works.
oh yes i will!
thats why im a cloti i spent 2 hours replying to you (pg 46) and you didnt say a thing (maybe because your post was deleted). i waited for you to reply for three weeks and i didnt get one notification. and tell me one time when i have refused to reply to you or i havent replied to you. i have always guaranteed my reply to you. i just take a long time to get around to it because i dont have a computer with me like that. ive told you this twice.
too long? too long? what did i post that was too long?
:T no offense but what hard work?
oh and maybe you should join here. if you dont like me there are some other clotis that would be glad to talk to you and listen. (they're really bored and want some action.)
http://thelifestream.net/forums/showthread.php?p=541035#post541035
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Oh, and of course the mods ignore my reports and you get away with acting the way you do and I'm expected to just suck it up.
Golly gee, now I wonder why the majority of members have now left the forum! Couldn't possibly be because of the way certain people handle these situations!
The mods check the reports and decide whether or not it is something that warrants a warning. We get so many reports from this silly thread that unfortunately, some must be ignored because everyone takes a few jabs at one another in this thread. We either live with it or we'd have to close it.
It's a shame that people can't have a simple rational debate about this considering it is a video game and the characters are not real. People want to discuss this and that's fine but please grow up and act like adults.
Cloud's guilt for Aerith's death is not undying. Nomura said his guilt was healed at the end of AC--if something vanishes that means it is not undying, therefore it can't be his undying guilt because his guilt isn't fucking undying.
No it wasn't. it was said in case of lifestream: black and white. I've already said this to you, like, 10 times now. Please pay attention. And no it was not according to aerith. The narrative voice said cloud was her friend & lover, Aerith would not just think of Cloud as her lover unless they were actually lovers. Despite what you people think, Aerith isn't some psycho bitch. If she says Cloud is her lover, it's because it's true.
Are you trolling me??
That isn't the quote I'm talking about. Read what I'm actually saying. Cloud is called her lover in CASE OF LIFESTREAM: BLACK & WHITE. Also, the quote that DOES describe Cloud as Aerith's lover also says he is her friend, just because a quote says she's his friend as well doesn't mean they're not also romantic, ffs.Why don't commercials count? because you say so? I don't care what other commercials say, the ff commercials have always portrayed the love story. For vii it was cloud and Aerith, for viii it was squall and rinoa, and for ix it was garnet and zidane, and for x it was tidus and yuna. Every commercial for THOSE games portrayed the love stories. Not to mention, you expect me to believe that square published three commercials that were created for the sole purpose of SELLING THE GAME and they somehow are "meaningless"? Yeah, no that's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard.
If square didn't like what those commercials said or conveyed, they would have changed them or never approved of them. Just accept the facts.and stop using nicknames on me, it's really weird and if you're going to be condescending at least man up about it.
No, if it was "one" I would have said one. I said two because there were two dates, again--that's why I said it. haha, you don't even know about their first date.
Their first date happened in the moogle park right before tifa tries to sell her body to the don for information. Here's the quote;“Date in the Park: In Scene 04-10, Zack and Aerith have a date in Green Park in the sector 6 slum. An identical situation is seen in “FFVII” as well, which features a scene of Cloud and Aerith on a date in the same park.” ~CC Ultimania, Square Enix
^ READ THAT BLUE SENTENCE -- THAT IS AN OFFICIAL QUOTE THAT TLS EVEN TRANSLATED ^
What in the hell are you talking about? Square has NEVER said anything like that about the highwind scene.
Just so we're clear here, that's a no. And also, all of the dates (including the hw scenes) are optional, no one is denying that. However, square has made it very plainly clear that the clerith date is canon. I've already given you the proof but here it is again. QUOTE 1: This is the payment she suggests when Cloud says that it’ll cost her to hire him to be her bodyguard. This line shows the composed and mischievous side of her. It may be because of this promise that it’s easier to have Aerith be the other party in Cloud’s date when they’re in the Gold Saucer. ~pg. 30, FFVII Ultimania Omega
QUOTE 2: 1. In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.
QUOTE 3: Aerith : Oh, Cloud… I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful.
I’ll never forget it.
I’ll never forget you, Cloud… -- DISMANTLED
and if that's not good enough for you, then read this in depth essay I wrote.
The quote from dismantled includes Aerith recalling their date at gold saucer in a non-optional scene meaning it's canon because of it.
Aerith did not "make" Cloud do anything. She is much smaller then him and a helluva lot weaker, Cloud accepted the date because he wanted to. And when Aerith suggests she goes on a date with him for his protection Cloud nods his head in approval and then begins to act as her bodyguard:
Cloud clearly nods his head UP and then DOWN. Which means he accepted her offer because HE wanted to. And also, he WILLINGLY jumps up with her on top of the moogle slide during their first date. He even sits close by her as she leans towards him, I'd even argue that his arm is around her. But, it doesn't matter if he didn't propose the idea of a date to her, he STILL accepted and actually went on two dates with her. That is all that matters. Stop avoiding the issue.
And here we go again. You can't give a good argument for something I said so you go off on a tangent about some "cwoti proof" you have. Stop doing that. Argue what I'm saying, don't just go off topic and say something irrelevant. However, since you brought it up. Barret and TIFA started a family together with Marlene, and then MARLENE (Barret and Tifa's child) ADOPTED Cloud into their family. This was stated in Case of Tifa: revised.
However, Tifa herself says she views their family as a family of friends, not to mention, she views Cloud as a child and she enjoys feeling like a mother to him. Yep, SO romantic. You're right, any normal person would definitely enjoy feeling like a mother to a man she had sex with and supposedly romantically involved with....
And, no. Their feelings were not revealed. Case of Tifa shows Tifa unsure about Cloud's feelings and she herself doesn't even know what their feelings are. If she doesn't know then that means... what? That's right, that means they never revealed any feelings for each other, let alone romantic.
No matter what feelings Cloud and I have between us, we can’t drag Marlene into it, Tifa thought to herself. -Case of Tifa
But you're right, the reuinion files says Tifa has told Cloud how she feels more than once... AND CLOUD STILL ISN'T WITH HER.
She needs to take a hint. Are you kidding me? you just posted it yourself.
Cloud "The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing."
Cloud "Aerith is gone."
Cloud "Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry..."
Cloud says that Sephiroth's "stupid" plan of destroying the planet and killing everyone on it DOESN'T matter now that Aerith is gone. Are you, like, trolling here or something?
What? Where in God's name did you get that idea?
There's nothing that ever says anything about him fighting for Tifa. Cloud says so himself that above all else he was fighting to unfreeze Aerith's smile. He said during her death that he didn't care about what happened to the planet all because Aerith was gone. What on earth are you talking about?! Um, yes you did. You don't even pay attention to what you say--here's where you said Cid watched;
NOTHINGTOSEEHERE said:
You also argued it further with this post that you totally weren't being mean in!
And also here where you called me a pervert (even though you're the person saying Cid watched Cloud and Tifa have sex)
See that? ^ So you did say Cid watched. Now answer my question. If Cid supposedly watched Cloud and Tifa fuck, then why is Cid and Red XIII curious about it? C'mon, answer me.
(Red XIII looks at Cid, who still is operating the controls.)
Red XIII "But, you know, Cid."
(He looks at Cloud. Cid leaves the controls and stares at Red XIII.)
Cid "Hey, Red XIII."
Cid "If you butt in now, you never know what they'll say later..."
Tifa "...Were you watching?" - HAHW scene
Cid’s comment alone proves that NOTHING romantic happened. In fact, Cid’s comment proves that after Cloud’s “…..” comment both of them did not speak or do anything that would give a conclusion of romantic implications. If Cloud and Tifa kissed Cid wouldn’t be curious. If Cloud said “I love you” to Tifa or something along those lines then Cid wouldn’t be curious to know what they say. In fact, this comment by Cid proves that Cloud did not reply in ANYWAY to Tifa’s “words aren’t the only way” comment.
If even the people who witnessed this moment saw nothing happen between Cloud and Tifa, then that means NOTHING happened during the scene.
See, if their friends saw what they did and not even THEY saw anything happen between them then that means NOTHING happened.
Deal with it.
Your grammar.how?
See above. I have no idea what you're talking about.
So... you're a cloti because Cloud went on two dates with Aerith, said the world's destruction didn't matter because Aerith was dead, feels Aerith in his soul, has an undying love for her, wants to be in HIS promised land with Aerith, has a marriage prediction with Aerith, because he tells Aerith that HE'LL be there for her, says Aerith's eyes were impressive, misses her laugh and smile, because Cloud compares her smile to a symbol of beauty, and because he was called Aerith's lover...?oh yes i will! >
Riiight, that makes sense.
Again, just because you write back doesn't mean you ANSWER what I've said. 99% of the time you make a post, all you do is repost the same 6 quotes over and over again as a means to counter ANYTHING I've said as if that is correct to do. I'll talk about Cloud's undying love and you'd talk about the OPTIONAL HW scene as a way to counter the evidence I've provided instead of refuting what I said. That is not debating. All you do is avoid the issues I bring up by saying something else and expecting me to debate what you've said even though you haven't done the same for me yet.
Please, pay attention when you read my posts. I never said you wrote anything too long. I said MY post was too long; didn't read.
Look through this thread, I've got hundreds of posts. And they all make grammatical sense and use actual facts, too! You should read them, might learn a thing or two!
Why would I go from this forum (a well constructed place) to that cesspool forum full of morons just to debate someone that can't even properly read what I'm saying and write up an equally well constructed reply to me?
None of this matters, though. If Cloud and Tifa aren't even good friends then they sure as hell aren't lovers, and they sure as hell didn't confess love at any point during VII.
I'm closing this for now. It seems we can't really play nice, and instead resort to name calling like 6 year olds. So you're all in time out.
It will/may be reopened the near/never future.
It will/may be reopened the near/never future.
Roshidon
Blue Mage
Marlene is actually Barret and Myrnas child. Barret and Tifa were never romantically involved.
First of all, like wow, when did this get open again! 
Cloud is like another child in the family, that's all I'm saying.
Yes, I know that. And I never said Barret and Tifa were romantically together. I simply said it was Barret and Tifa raising Marlene together LONG before Cloud was adopted into their family. Barret and Tifa were raising Marlene together at the start of FF7, and then by the time of CoT Marlene (aka Barret and Tifa's kid that they were raising) ADOPTED Cloud into Barret, Tifa, and her family.
Cloud is like another child in the family, that's all I'm saying.
Twilight Sky
Blue Mage
After watching Advent Children, Cloud needs to let go of dead shadows and get with the chick that makes it obvious that she doesn't wont to be "the one that got away" in his life. Him and Aeris were'nt even that close, thanks to Seph, there was no time for them to get really serious.
Cloud went on dates with Aerith (more than one), more importantly he accepted and wanted those dates from Aerith, meaning he had an attraction to her, especially when we know from canon materials that Cloud shows adoration for Aerith's smile, eyes, and laugh (which he's never done for Tifa). If Cloud was off accepting dates and adoring another woman's physical features, not to mention, growing close to her and creating a two person world with her (that Tifa was jealous of)... then does it make sense that he "liked" Tifa? would he go after another woman if he was at all interested in Tifa during VII?
It makes no sense to say that Cloud and Aerith weren't that close for quite a few reasons;
1) Cloud & Aerith ACTUALLY dated more than once
2) Cloud was gallantly willing to risk getting caught by Shinra just so he could save Aerith (after the plate falls)
3) Tifa was even jealous and uneasy about how Cloud & Aerith got so close so quickly (quote found in Dismantled)
4) The ultimanias say Cloud & Aerith developed their own two person world that Tifa was jealous of
5) Cloud & Aerith were said to be perfect for each other, and even had a wedding prediction
6) Cloud tries to tell Aerith that HE will be there for HER, something he NEVER did for ANYONE else in the game
7) Cloud said that sephiroth's plan to kill the planet and all its people (which included Tifa at the time) meant NOTHING now that Aerith was gone.
8) Tifa says that Cloud becomes more reticent after Aerith died.
9) Cloud says that he thinks about Aerith A LOT
10) Cloud says above all else, he's fighting to unfreeze Aerith's smile (stated in Dismantled)
11) Cloud wants to MEET/FIND Aerith in HIS promised land
And then in the official Case of Lifestream novel, Cloud was said to be Aerith's "friend and lover" (japanese word used was koibito). And then in Advent Children, you see Cloud wanting AERITH'S forgiveness more than anything (including more than being with Tifa or finding a cure for geostigma). Cloud was said to "suffer in loneliness" until he realized Aerith was always with him. And on top of that, it's been said by nomura that Aerith's soul lives on inside of Cloud's, and that she is engraved in his heart for eternity, and that he has an "undying" feeling for her.
Throw in the fact that Tifa is extremely jealous and uneasy about everything Cloud does, thinks, says regarding Aerith... and you say that Cloud and Aerith "were'nt even that close"? If they weren't "that close" do you honestly think ANY of the above would have occurred?
AND let's not forget that Cloud is supposedly "best friends" with Zack and yet he has NEVER shown as much devotion, concern, love, or development for Zack... like, ever.
Cloud's actions, thoughts, ect all prove how MUCH Aerith means to him. For goodness sake, Cloud was willing to let himself DIE because of how tormented and in pain Cloud was over Aerith's death.
If Tifa meant so much to him, he wouldn't have ignored her completely while seeking refuge in the church of the dead woman that he wasn't even supposedly close to. If he loved Tifa like you say he does, he would have wanted a cure for geostigma more than anything, NOT Aerith's forgiveness.
Bottom line; Cloud wouldn't have her engraved in his heart for eternity, harbor an undying feeling for her, think about her "a lot", want her forgiveness more than anything, or be called her "lover" IF they weren't close.
EDIT:
I mean, damn--if you think that Cloud wasn't even close to Aerith even with all the above facts, then that must mean Cloud & Tifa aren't even friends!
Oh, wait....
Marlene: 'Cloud and Tifa aren't very good friends.' - Case of Tifa: REVISED
『 クラウドとティファがあんまり仲良しじゃないの』
『 クラウドとティファがあんまり仲良しじゃないの』
Twilight Sky
Blue Mage
I should have pointed out that I never got very deep into the compilation of FF7, or all that other info spread across the internet about the inter dealings with the characters.
Even so, the point stands that he needs to let go. And it's natural, and even understandable for Tifa to be jealous(as well as a bit frustrated at the fact that he doesn't want her).
As for your other points that outline him obsessing over Aerith(although I prefer Aeris). You can be so stuck in the past, that it becomes your reality but only in your mind. Meanwhile.. time in the outside world is just passing you by.
She's in the the promised land with Zack. I think you know where that goes from here.
Have you played the game or at least read the novellas?
Tell that to Tidus and Yuna, Barret, Dyn and his wife, Vincent & Lucrecia, and other couples that don't "move on". Just because YOU would move on, doesn't mean that's what CLOUD wants to do. And from the way Cloud's acting, he doesn't exactly seem like he wants to move on, either (let alone with a woman that used to alienate him and sorta manipulate him and is now annoyed and irritated by him, including by his simple quirks).
Tifa has straight up asked Cloud if she was enough, Cloud didn't answer her. Tifa asked Cloud if he loved her, he didn't answer. Tifa asked to just join him while drinking and Cloud said no. Cloud began visiting AERITH's church (before he got geostigma) and ignoring Tifa for MONTHS, even Tifa says Cloud "never calls". Tifa has voiced her feelings more than once, and Cloud STILL isn't "with" her.
Case of Tifa shows that Cloud isn't interested in Tifa in a romantic sense, and here's the excerpts that I'm speaking of;
1 - TIFA ASKS CLOUD IF SHE CAN "JOIN HIM" AND HE SAYS NO;
During their holiday, Tifa and Marlene were cleaning the room that was now Cloud’s office. There were many slips that laid scattered about unsorted. One of them caught Tifa’s eye.
Client Name - Elmyra Gainsborough
Delivery Item - Bouquet
Destination - The Forgotten City
Tifa put the slip away with the others as if nothing happened, but she was trembling severely. Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn’t protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.
It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.
“Shall I join you?” There was something she wanted to talk to him about.
Cloud: “I want to drink alone.”
Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.”
2 - MARLENE EVEN POINTS OUT THE TERRIBLE QUALITY OF THEIR FRIENDSHIP;
Barret called often. Most of the time, he hardly talked about himself and asked more about how Marlene was doing. Every time, he would talk to Marlene at the end. As Marlene wondered if Tifa was listening or not, she told Barret in a sad voice, “Cloud and Tifa aren’t very good friends.”
3 - EVEN AFTER FF7, TIFA HAS NO IDEA WHAT CLOUD'S "FEELINGS" ARE;
No matter what feelings Cloud and I have between us, we can’t drag Marlene into it, Tifa thought to herself.
4 - TIFA HAS TO FORCE HERSELF TO TALK TO CLOUD;
Tifa forced herself to talk to Cloud. When Marlene was near, she would pick something positive, something that wouldn’t turn the conversation into a serious matter. Cloud was bewildered at the way Tifa changed, but guessing at what she was doing, he went along with the mood and talked to her. They got Marlene to join in with the conversations. I thought it went pretty well, but I couldn’t talk about what I really wanted to talk about. I didn’t know what to say.
5 - CLOUD AND TIFA DON'T EVEN PAY ATTENTION TO EACH OTHER OR SHOW INTEREST IN ONE ANOTHER;
One morning, Tifa shared a story she heard from a customer that seemed funny.
“That’s really something that can’t be done,” Cloud thought aloud.
“It can’t be done!” Marlene shouted.
All the adults were surprised and looked at Marlene.
“You’ve told us that story before and Cloud just gives the same answer!”
6 - TIFA HERSELF SAYS THERE WEREN'T MANY CONVERSATIONS OR SMILES BETWEEN THEM;
It didn’t go well. But we were together. It was because we were family. We lived in the same house and we were living by uniting our strength. Maybe there wasn’t much conversation or many smiles, but we were family, Tifa thought to herself. No, it was what she made herself think.
7 - CLOUD DOES NOT ANSWER TIFA'S QUESTION ABOUT IF HE LOVES HER;
After making certain that Cloud was asleep, she spoke to him.
“We’ll be all right, won’t we?”
Of course, there was no answer. I only heard the sound of him sleeping. I wondered if the fact that he was sleeping here meant that he was part of the family.
“Do you love me?”
Cloud woke up, a perplexed look on his face.
*in the original publication of this novella it said Cloud woke up with a dubious look on his face, the revised edition supposedly changed it to perplexed. Also, it's up for debate whether or not Cloud actually heard her or not.
8 - TIFA ISN'T ENOUGH FOR CLOUD / CLOUD IGNORES TIFA WHEN SHE ASKS HIM TO WORK HARD TOGETHER WITH HER;
Tifa: “Even we aren’t enough for you?”
Cloud didn’t answer.
Tifa: “Sorry for asking some strange things.”
Cloud: “Don’t apologize. It’s my problem.”
Cloud closed his eyes.
Tifa: “Let’s work hard together.”
Tifa waited for his answer, though she couldn’t hear it even if she waited until the morning. -- CASE OF TIFA: REVISED
9 - CLOUD WAS GOING TO BRING DENZEL BACK TO 7TH HEAVEN, EVEN WITHOUT TIFA'S APPROVAL;
Cloud: “I heard Geostigma wasn’t contagious.”
Cloud said as if he presumed her hesitation. Then, she realized that Cloud wanted to bring this child home.
“Yeah, bring him with you.”
“I’ll bring him through the back door. Is there anyone that can look after Marlene?”
“Yeah.”
Hanging up the phone, Tifa thought it odd that Cloud was aware of Marlene and the bar. In the end, she understood.
Cloud thought that Tifa would oppose. Even so he wanted to bring him back.
10 - CLOUD BELIEVED IT WAS AERITH WHO BROUGHT DENZEL TO HIM;
Tifa: “Hey, do you remember what you said when you brought Denzel here?”
Cloud: “What did I say?”
Tifa: “A lot of things. Even if I opposed it, you would bring him back with you. I could just feel it.”
Cloud: “That…”
Cloud was making a face like a kid who thought he would get scolded.
Tifa: “Tell me. I’ll decide whether I’m angry or not after I listen.”
Cloud nodded and continued.
Cloud: “Denzel had collapsed in front of Aerith’s church. That’s why I thought Aerith lead him to me.”
11 - TIFA LAUGHS AT CLOUD & REALIZES IT'S WRONG;
Barret was sipping his wine in a corner. Maybe he was planning to be the bouncer. Cloud’s job was to obtain the ingredients they needed for their food and alcohol. He didn’t know most of the names of the fruit and vegetables. At first, Tifa was surprised, but when she thought about the life that Cloud had, she realized it couldn’t be helped.It was funny when she thought how Cloud’s new life was going to start by remembering the names of vegetables. No, I can’t laugh, Tifa thought to herself.
*This is especially messed up because Tifa is laughing at Cloud's life and what he has to "learn" because of the years lost during his Jenova-experiments, which she also lied to him about for the first two discs of the game.
12 - TIFA HERSELF SAYS THEIR FAMILY IS A FAMILY OF FRIENDS;
Friends were a necessity to me so that I could live on without being suppressed by the sins in my consciousness. Even if they were fellow companions that had the same wounds. Even if they were fellow companions who were burdened with the same sins. We couldn’t live without comforting each other and encouraging each other.
Maybe you could call that family. We just had to keep the family together and do our best. Tifa thought she could get over anything while being with friends that she could call her family.
13 - MARLENE ADOPTS CLOUD INTO BARRET & TIFA & HER OWN FAMILY;
“A family.” (Tifa)
“Yeah.” (Marlene)
Marlene cheerfully answered in response to Tifa’s murmur.
“I’ll put Cloud in our family too.” (Marlene)
“I appreciate that.” (Cloud)
14 - TIFA IS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT CLOUD & TIFA'S RELATIONSHIP IS, EVEN AFTER VII;
After Cloud thanked Marlene’s innocent offer with his serious face, he looked at Tifa. Tifa nodded a little. Would there be various problems arising after this? However, Tifa decided that she whould stop worrying about the relationship between the two of them.
15 - TIFA ENJOYS HAVING MOTHERLY FEELINGS TOWARDS CLOUD;
Tifa burst out in laughter. Cloud went on about how he got paid a little for delivering items. He explained to her how he felt guilty spending it all on the modifications for the bike. Tifa thought he was just like a kid. It may have been a little sad that Cloud had found another world that I didn’t know about but, the fact that his world was expanding was a welcoming thought. Yes, it was similar to the feelings a mother would have. Tifa walked Cloud outside, enjoying the new feeling that was welling up inside her.
16 - TIFA SAYS THEIR FAMILY LIFE "WASN'T TOO GOOD";
After Cloud started his delivery service, their “family” life changed greatly. It wasn’t too good. Besides morning and late night, Cloud was usually not at home. And of course, there were less chances for the three of them to have conversations together.
17 - CLOUD IGNORED MARLENE & ACTED DISTANT TOWARDS THEM BOTH;
During that time, it was Marlene who noticed a change in Cloud. She told Tifa how Cloud would sometimes look up at the sky and not listen to her. Cloud never really approached Marlene to talk in the first place.I’m sure he never ignored her when she talked to him. I knew that Cloud had his own ways of getting along with Marlene. I thought about how there were people everywhere that weren’t good with children but had their own ways of coping with them.
I told her that Cloud was probably tired, but it bothered me. Marlene was a child who was sensitive about the changes in adults.
And much more from the ultimanias and stuff. Yes, Cloud started to be "happier" after Denzel arrived, but that's because he thought it was Aerith who brought him the child. Before then, Cloud was irritated, distant, depressed with Tifa and Marlene.
Yes, it is natural. But she can't FORCE Cloud to love her. You love who you love. And for Cloud, he loves Aerith--hence why Tifa is irritated, uneasy, and jealous about it. She likes Cloud and she knows his heart belongs to another woman and it hurts her, as it would to anyone. But just because Tifa wants Cloud doesn't mean Cloud has to be with her because of it.
I wouldn't call it obsessing, but whatever. If you admit he's "obsessing" over Aerith, then you must see that he loves her, right?
Was Yuna stuck in the past when she waited two years for Tidus? Also, you know Aerith can physically manifest herself, right? She has been shown physically interacting with the living world, especially Cloud--much like Sephiroth does.
No, actually--Aerith's in the LIFESTREAM, but she's not with Zack. Maiden of the Planet (the novella) shows Aerith turning Zack down;
Zack: "It's not over yet but, I'm going to sleep for a while. It seems there's nothing I can do just now. But whenever you feel lonely, call me Aerith."
Aerith: "Only if I get really lonely. Goodnight, Zack."
&
Aerith was in even greater pain when she thought about Cloud.
She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn't get away from danger. She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him. She wanted to stay by his side forever if she could. She really wanted to.
And in Case of Lifestream (a novella set right before AC), the narrative voice says Cloud is her "lover" (the Japanese word used was koibito). And in Dismantled, Aerith says she undoubtedly loves Cloud much more than she ever loved Zack. So, yeah... She is completely over Zack.
It's funny you mentioned promise land's, though. Nomura said that Aerith's church is Cloud's promised land, not only that but Cloud tells Tifa at the end of the game that HE wants to MEET/FIND Aerith in HIS promised land. If you think it's romantic that both Aerith and Zack are dead and in the lifestream, then you must think it's also romantic that Cloud wants to be with Aerith in his promised land.
Twilight Sky
Blue Mage
Uh Lady Liberty, I'm not gonna bother reading all of that. Clearly you are an Aeris sympathizer extremist. It simply isn't that serious to break down every thing I said and go up the deep end about it in such an analytical unreasonable way.
Ok, I'll put it simply.
1) Read case of Tifa and you'll see how much Cloud and Tifa can't get along.
2) Yuna still loved Tidus after years of being "gone". So did Barret, Dyn, Vincent and other characters that lost their loved ones. Which means Cloud can still love Aerith, too.
3) Cloud wants to be with Aerith in his promised land.
4) Cloud's promised land is Aerith's church.
5) Aerith says she is completely in love with Cloud, not Zack.
6) Zack and Aerith are not together in the promised land, they're in the lifestream... separated.
And um... if you didn't want an extensive read, you probably should head over to the fanclubs... this thread's purpose is to debate so that's why my post was larger than yours.
If I had known you didn't want facts or tl;drs I would have just responded by saying you're wrong.
Also, I seriously laughed at the Aerith sympathizer extremist thing. Aerith isn't even my favorite character lmao
You need to relaX!Even though I do like and enjoy Clerith I do agree with Twilight Sky here. It would be so unhealthy for Cloud mentally to not move on and not be stuck in the past. That could really ruin him and wouldn't help him and would just make him go back to being really depressed again, if not worse.
(I swear it's Dyne Liberty xD ) and after DOC yeah Vincent and Lucrecia do move on. They settle things, apologize and then Vincent walks away from the place where Lucrecia is hidden and he moves on. Moving on doesn't really mean forgetting either, it just means what it says, moving on. And it can take possibly years for somebody to move on. It took like Locke like five or six years to get over Rachel and he needed her back alive again to help him.
Squall was never really over loosing Ellone as a child, he didn't loose her per say, but they were still separated. Squall was a much happier person when he moved on, he was less grumpy, less anti- social, less negative and a all- around healthier mentally person. It's like that for RL people too.
But if you really like Cloud's character and his story; then you'll want him to move on and let go of his past. Not saying that we can't enjoy Clerith though, just not for the future.
Tidus and Yuna just spent two years apart, that's a really short time to try and get over somebody that you loved deeply. Yuna was lucky though.
Yeah after a few years of crying and feeling depressed and miserable. We would move on alright. Otherwise we would be stuck in the past and would be feeling miserable and even more depressed. It would make you sick.
And whoa ? Are you saying that Tifa was and is manipulative ? Leave Tifa hate outside the LTD thanks.
Also this doesn't sound like he's annoyed with Tifa or hates to be around her. Not in the slightest.
So Cloud DID actually try and want to move on from Aerith before, but he wasn't ready and hence the breakdown and depression and Geostigma. So Cloud actually did actually try and live a new life. Only for life to say no. And it was hinted that the new life he was planning was with Tifa. As good friends or lovers, I believe that it's up to the player to choose. The LTD is about who do you think Cloud loves or Loved ? I believe that he once upon a time during Final Fantasy VII he loved Aerith; but fate said no. As much as I would like Cloud/ Aerith to be a forever couple, they can't and it wouldn't be healthy for Cloud's character for him to be stuck in the past. As Cloud says himself in the original game " Aerith died with a smile, but that smile is frozen, we have to move on and move that smile ". Well basically among those lines, anyways. 2 lazy to look up official quote.
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Roshidon
Blue Mage
First off I wanna say I think SE has purposefully added so much more material to the FF7 universe just so that fans would fight about who Cloud loves or what is going to happen. There is no real way to tell since they don't just come out and say it you have to make your own conclusions and everyone's will be different.
So I just read the case of Tifa OtWtaS and I really think that you (Lady Liberty) are just taking all the bad parts out of the story and reciting them as proof that Cloud and Tifa arn't right for each other and will never end up together. Any family is going to be dysfunctional, that's just real life, and that must have been what the writers were going for when they wrote it. I mean Cloud literally just saved the world, and he hasn't really done anything else with his life other than create an alter-ego which he still probably hasn't recovered from.
Your quotes on what aerith feels for Cloud are also incorrect because shes stating she loves that Cloud is direct and confident, both of which are qualities of his alter-ego, so in fact Aerith has fallen in love with Cloud's alter-ego.
So I just read the case of Tifa OtWtaS and I really think that you (Lady Liberty) are just taking all the bad parts out of the story and reciting them as proof that Cloud and Tifa arn't right for each other and will never end up together. Any family is going to be dysfunctional, that's just real life, and that must have been what the writers were going for when they wrote it. I mean Cloud literally just saved the world, and he hasn't really done anything else with his life other than create an alter-ego which he still probably hasn't recovered from.
Your quotes on what aerith feels for Cloud are also incorrect because shes stating she loves that Cloud is direct and confident, both of which are qualities of his alter-ego, so in fact Aerith has fallen in love with Cloud's alter-ego.
FantasyDesigner
Newbie
I think the beauty of this is that its open to interpretation, i think it probably says more about who we are, i'm a hopeless romantic that loves the idea of cloud being in love with Tifa as a child, they made a promise together and will always have a special bond. there are hints he loves Aeris but I think cloud is too much of a stoic character to give one more value than the other, I really wanted to see cloud and Tifa together at the end of the game and since they are still uninvolved in advent child, maybe cloud cares more for Aeris then I would like to believe oh well, in my head ill always be cloudxtifa. xxxxx
oh well, in my head ill always be cloudxtifa. xxxxx