EnigmaPhenomenon
Chocobo Breeder
your callily on the clerith forums right? has aerithbunny/evil emporer told you about our site yet?
Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII
- Thread starter The Witch
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your callily on the clerith forums right? has aerithbunny/evil emporer told you about our site yet?
EnigmaPhenomenon
Chocobo Breeder
@ Ishtar
Sorry I just realized I haven't responded to you yet x.x I'm not ignoring you but I've been busy so it'll take me a while to get back to you so we can continue our debate, so just hold tight!
Sorry I just realized I haven't responded to you yet x.x I'm not ignoring you but I've been busy so it'll take me a while to get back to you so we can continue our debate, so just hold tight!
Hope I can still post in this thread!!!! Kinda the reason why I joined...
I think both are/were cannon. To me, Cloud got over his childhood crush of Tifa when we played him in the game. Then he met Aeris. I think if it weren't for her death, Cloud would have definitely gotten together with Aeris. But by the end of the game, I thought it was pretty obvious that Cloud wanted Tifa, as they grew closer. One of the producers did say that it probably would have worked out better with Aeris, but that Marlene and Denzel would help Cloud and Tifa work things out. That could be saying what I'm saying - that Aeris was cannon, but she...you know...and then it became Tifa.
I don't like to go off from the game, because I think all the spin-offs including the movie sequel don't actually apply to the story, or at least I don't like to think of them as part of the original, but if you wanna include the sequel, it's true - Cloud really does ignore Tifa, but they probably made it that way so that the LTD could keep going. I read Lifestream-whatever.com's explanation of the LTD and why they chose Tifa and it's true - they COULD just have a complicated relationship. Not EVERY relationship is perfect.
But if he were to be with Aeris, I think it would have been perfect because she has that soft, open personality that makes up for Cloud's closed-off ways and we do see in the game that it's true, as she was the only one who made Cloud laugh and famously smile at the end of Advent Children, while Tifa is just as closed off as Cloud, you could say, which makes for a difficult partnership. AGH! How difficult this is! To me, Cloud and Tifa deeply care for one another, but they don't directly express it. Aeris was direct, Cloud's not, and I believe that because of that directness, they would've put themselves together somehow.
Going back to the producer's quote, I'd say Aeris WAS cannon, but that now Tifa is, just that their relationship is made vague to keep us into the LTD. But if I'm gonna go with who THE cannon one is/was in general, obviously, I think, Aeris.
All of you seem to forget that it wasn't just Cat Saith who predicted that Aeris is perfect for Cloud, but also Cloud's mother. When you sleep in Aeris's house to leave for Sector 7 the next morning, Cloud dreams of the past with his mother when he went back to Nibelheim as a Shinra guard. She tells him: "There are a lot of temptations in the city...I'd feel a lot better if you just settled down and had a nice girlfriend. You should have...an older girlfriend, one that'll take care of you. I think that would be the perfect type for you." After Cloud states his famous uninterested lines, the dream slowly closes and slowly opens up to reveal Aeris on the screen in the next room, swinging her feet, minding her own business. Who was Cloud's mother talking about? In this case, AERIS. The way the scene slowly opens up to reveal a woman who is, in fact, OLDER THAN CLOUD BY A YEAR and VERY WISE AND CARING/MOTHERLY considering she is an Ancient and has been through a lot of tragedy and loss in her life, that dream and what followed it pointed toward Aeris. And you can't go wrong with mother's intuition, especially Cloud's own mother who I'm sure loved him dearly and knew him better than anyone else. That's what moms are there for, and she predicted someone who Aeris matches as his type. Coincidentally, Cloud meets a woman who fits that description. Tifa is A YEAR YOUNGER. And no, none of this is optional.
Then when Aeris is gone, Cloud and Tifa grow closer in their non-optional lifestream scene and I thought I saw them holding hands as they went up afterward. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. It was like as Cloud kept shifting through his past, his feelings for Tifa came back. Then that famous Highwind scene near the end. So I think that's why it eventually ends up as Cloud and Tifa. And don't forget that Nomura originally wanted it to be "THAT" kind of scene.
But to those calling Aeris and/or Tifa a slut: Aeris didn't know Cloud and Zack were friends and she's the one who opens Cloud up the best and makes him happy. She did become attracted to Cloud because of the resemblence, but grew to love Cloud for himself, more so than she ever did with Zack, I think. She moved on a long time ago. Zack was just someone she went out with because she liked him at the time, as many people do. Tifa acted on her feelings, if you can really say that about whatever happened at the Highwind, like many people do when they have feelings for someone. I think the REAL culprit (slut) here is Cloud, but of course no one says anything about him because he's the "God-almighty" guy. See how bad our society is? I say this in terms of when it comes to Tifa, mostly. He's this really vague, unshowing kind of guy when it comes to Tifa. Why would you want him for her? I feel bad for her! Especially if they really did have a one night stand near the end but behaves the way he does in AC, making their relationship vague and untrustworthy. Cloud's that kind of guy that unless he's NOT vague with you, you DON'T want him, or SHOULD NOT want to be with him in a relationship. Of course, I know part of that is Tifa's fault, but Cloud is in the wrong here, too, but no one's saying anything about it. You know what I mean.
But supposedly it's not vague because Aeris was cannon, but now Tifa is. That's how I see it, anyway. But I'll admit, Cloud and Tifa have a weird relationship making it hard to completely go with that. It's like they're just pushing and pulling, compared to with Aeris where Cloud pushes for it all the way, Aeris just having to push a little bit.
I think both are/were cannon. To me, Cloud got over his childhood crush of Tifa when we played him in the game. Then he met Aeris. I think if it weren't for her death, Cloud would have definitely gotten together with Aeris. But by the end of the game, I thought it was pretty obvious that Cloud wanted Tifa, as they grew closer. One of the producers did say that it probably would have worked out better with Aeris, but that Marlene and Denzel would help Cloud and Tifa work things out. That could be saying what I'm saying - that Aeris was cannon, but she...you know...and then it became Tifa.
I don't like to go off from the game, because I think all the spin-offs including the movie sequel don't actually apply to the story, or at least I don't like to think of them as part of the original, but if you wanna include the sequel, it's true - Cloud really does ignore Tifa, but they probably made it that way so that the LTD could keep going. I read Lifestream-whatever.com's explanation of the LTD and why they chose Tifa and it's true - they COULD just have a complicated relationship. Not EVERY relationship is perfect.
But if he were to be with Aeris, I think it would have been perfect because she has that soft, open personality that makes up for Cloud's closed-off ways and we do see in the game that it's true, as she was the only one who made Cloud laugh and famously smile at the end of Advent Children, while Tifa is just as closed off as Cloud, you could say, which makes for a difficult partnership. AGH! How difficult this is! To me, Cloud and Tifa deeply care for one another, but they don't directly express it. Aeris was direct, Cloud's not, and I believe that because of that directness, they would've put themselves together somehow.
Going back to the producer's quote, I'd say Aeris WAS cannon, but that now Tifa is, just that their relationship is made vague to keep us into the LTD. But if I'm gonna go with who THE cannon one is/was in general, obviously, I think, Aeris.
All of you seem to forget that it wasn't just Cat Saith who predicted that Aeris is perfect for Cloud, but also Cloud's mother. When you sleep in Aeris's house to leave for Sector 7 the next morning, Cloud dreams of the past with his mother when he went back to Nibelheim as a Shinra guard. She tells him: "There are a lot of temptations in the city...I'd feel a lot better if you just settled down and had a nice girlfriend. You should have...an older girlfriend, one that'll take care of you. I think that would be the perfect type for you." After Cloud states his famous uninterested lines, the dream slowly closes and slowly opens up to reveal Aeris on the screen in the next room, swinging her feet, minding her own business. Who was Cloud's mother talking about? In this case, AERIS. The way the scene slowly opens up to reveal a woman who is, in fact, OLDER THAN CLOUD BY A YEAR and VERY WISE AND CARING/MOTHERLY considering she is an Ancient and has been through a lot of tragedy and loss in her life, that dream and what followed it pointed toward Aeris. And you can't go wrong with mother's intuition, especially Cloud's own mother who I'm sure loved him dearly and knew him better than anyone else. That's what moms are there for, and she predicted someone who Aeris matches as his type. Coincidentally, Cloud meets a woman who fits that description. Tifa is A YEAR YOUNGER. And no, none of this is optional.
Then when Aeris is gone, Cloud and Tifa grow closer in their non-optional lifestream scene and I thought I saw them holding hands as they went up afterward. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. It was like as Cloud kept shifting through his past, his feelings for Tifa came back. Then that famous Highwind scene near the end. So I think that's why it eventually ends up as Cloud and Tifa. And don't forget that Nomura originally wanted it to be "THAT" kind of scene.
But to those calling Aeris and/or Tifa a slut: Aeris didn't know Cloud and Zack were friends and she's the one who opens Cloud up the best and makes him happy. She did become attracted to Cloud because of the resemblence, but grew to love Cloud for himself, more so than she ever did with Zack, I think. She moved on a long time ago. Zack was just someone she went out with because she liked him at the time, as many people do. Tifa acted on her feelings, if you can really say that about whatever happened at the Highwind, like many people do when they have feelings for someone. I think the REAL culprit (slut) here is Cloud, but of course no one says anything about him because he's the "God-almighty" guy. See how bad our society is? I say this in terms of when it comes to Tifa, mostly. He's this really vague, unshowing kind of guy when it comes to Tifa. Why would you want him for her? I feel bad for her! Especially if they really did have a one night stand near the end but behaves the way he does in AC, making their relationship vague and untrustworthy. Cloud's that kind of guy that unless he's NOT vague with you, you DON'T want him, or SHOULD NOT want to be with him in a relationship. Of course, I know part of that is Tifa's fault, but Cloud is in the wrong here, too, but no one's saying anything about it. You know what I mean.
But supposedly it's not vague because Aeris was cannon, but now Tifa is. That's how I see it, anyway. But I'll admit, Cloud and Tifa have a weird relationship making it hard to completely go with that. It's like they're just pushing and pulling, compared to with Aeris where Cloud pushes for it all the way, Aeris just having to push a little bit.
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GreyGardens
Newbie
50 Epic Reasons to Support Cloud x Aerith
50 Epic Reasons to Support Cloud x Aerith
1. “Cloud was her friend, her *koibito* (lover in Japanese) - a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White, Square Enix
2. Nomura of Square Enix doesn’t know the nature of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship *AFTER* the Highwind scene:
“For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don’t have any clue.” ~Nomura, Dorimaga interview, published at Flaregamer
3. Of the love triangles on SE’s “For The One I Love Page” (FTOIL), Cloud Strife is the only hero involved in a love triangle pictured with both of his romantic love interests in two canon scenes of romance (see the first row of images). Since Cloud is pictured with both Aerith and Tifa on a page discussing romantic love, the FFVII love triangle is the only unsolved Final Fantasy love triangle.
Some say that because the caption under Cloud and Aerith’s date doesn’t directly mention Aerith by name, it somehow invalidates Cloud and Aerith’s presence on the FTOIL page. However, the Cloud x Aerith date *IS* canon. Therefore, the caption is irrelevant. The caption under Cloud and Aerith’s was there to represent *ALL* the dates on the FTOIL page because *ALL* the dates are romantic (ie: because they are *DATES*). However, SE pictured Cloud and Aerith’s date because it is the *canon* date, and because we are meant to apply the FTOIL page directly to their canon date. The reason we only see the HA Highwind scene on the FTOIL page is because it would have been inappropriate to discuss or include the LA Highwind scene on a page titled “For The One I Love”. But if you could get different characters for the HA Highwind scene like you can for the date, that would have also been included on the FTOIL page. SE lists a reference page above Cloud and Tifa’s image on the FTOIL page so readers can find out that the HA version is not the *only* version, the HA version is simply the only appropriate version of the Highwind scene to include on the FTOIL page. Since Cloud is pictured with both of his love interests in two canon scenes of romance on a page titled, “For The One I Love,” Cloud can love either Aerith or Tifa. In other words, all the other love triangles have been solved *EXCEPT* for Final Fantasy VII because Cloud Strife is the only hero involved in a love triangle pictured with *BOTH* of his romantic love interests.
4. Denzel and Barret are apart of the same family, it’s just that Denzel is not *living* with Barret, which is why Barret does not appear in any of the quotes that talk about Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel *living* together. Remember this quote?
“After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the “Seventh Heaven” bar. Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together.” ~Case of Tifa
It says that the, “three of them [Cloud, Tifa, Marlene]” began *living* together *AFTER* Barret set off on a “journey”. This unequivocally proves that when the words “live”/”living”/”lived” are used to describe Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, it is ONLY excluding Barret because Barret is not TECHNICALLY “living” with them.
5. According to Square Enix’s *relationship charts* found in the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends *only* in both the Final Fantasy VII relationship chart and the Advent Children relationship chart. In addition, Cloud and Tifa never have mutual favor arrows, either.
The FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania provides two relationship charts. One for FFVII and one for AC. By including two charts it is meant to compare and contrast relationships in FFVII to relationships in AC. Essentially, having two charts helps highlight the *changes* the relationships have gone through between FFVII and AC. However, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship does not go through any *changes* because they are referred to as “childhood friends” in both charts. However, that is not the case for Cloud and Aerith. The FFVII chart states Cloud is Aerith’s “bodyguard.” Then, for the AC chart, it states Cloud feels a, “sense of guilt” towards Aerith. That’s because Cloud failed to protect Aerith — meaning he failed as her bodyguard. The difference between Cloud and Aerith’s two charts was the perfect way for SE to show us how their relationship changed between FFVII and AC — Cloud failed as her “bodyguard” in FFVII, so he feels a sense of “guilt” towards her in AC. Why did SE not show any changes between Cloud and Tifa’s relationship? Answer: because Cloud and Tifa’s relationship did not change between FFVII and AC.
6. Cloud, Tifa, and Barret create a family together after the HAHW scene. Marlene is Barret’s daughter and invites Cloud into their family. The family formed was not created for romantic reasons or formed from a romantic place like most families are.
Marlene: “I’ll put Cloud in our family too.”
Cloud: “I appreciate that.” ~Revised Case of Tifa
7. The Cloud x Aerith Golden Saucer date is confirmed as canon within the compilation:
8. Cloud has a separate bed in his private room during Advent Children:
Cloud: “I want to drink alone.”
Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.” ~Case of Tifa
People often say that because there is a lack of other furniture in Cloud’s room (like a dresser), it somehow invalidates the fact that Cloud has a bed in his room. But how does not having other furniture mean Cloud can’t sleep in that bed? The point is, I find it hard to believe that SE would include a random bed in Cloud’s room just for the hell of it. If Cloud doesn’t sleep there, who does? Until we see Cloud and Tifa sleeping together, it only makes sense that Cloud sleeps in the bed found in his room. This is evidence that a romantic relationship did not begin between Cloud and Tifa after the Highwind scene.
9. “Each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day…” ~Nomura, Square Enix
When *undying* is applied to a feeling or emotion that someone has, it is eternal and forever. So although you can make the argument that *undying* when applied to a fictional creature doesn’t mean eternal and forever, when the word “eternal” is applied to a human emotion or feeling, it *IS* eternal and forever. Therefore, it does not make sense that Nomura would be referring to Cloud’s guilt as *undying* when the entire point of Advent Children is to rid Cloud of his guilt.
10. Cloud and Tifa living together in Advent Children does not mean a romantic relationship exists. Remember Cid and Shera in FFVII? Also, remember that Cloud has a separate bed in his private room and that the family formed was formed with Barret and Marlene.
11. “There’s no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in Final Fantasy VII might be answered.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
Nomura specifically says that although the two universes of Kingdom Hearts and FFVII are separate, the Kingdom Hearts universe might help answer questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith as it pertains to Final Fantasy VII’s universe. Cloud and Aerith are seen together at the end of Kingdom Hearts similar to other romantic couples.
12. Tifa admits to not knowing if Cloud loves her *AFTER* the HAHW scene:
“Do you love me?”
Cloud opened his eyes. He looked perplexed.
“Hey, Cloud. Do you love Marlene?”
“Yeah. But… sometimes I don’t know how to act around her.” ~Case of Tifa
13. Aerith Gainsborough: “A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud’s heart for the rest of his life” ~DoC Japanese game manual, Square Enix
14. Love beyond death is a common theme in Final Fantasy (Tidus x Yuna, Shuyin x Lenne, Laguna x Raine, Ashe x Rasler, etc.) Plus, in Final Fantasy VII, you have Vincent’s bond with Lucrecia. Vincent can see her and speak with her in DoC, similar to the way Cloud can interact with Aerith in AC/ACC.
15. Tifa’s jealously over Cloud and Aerith’s relationship:
“The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.
One of the lines specifically says that Tifa let her “peevish feelings” slip when she saw Cloud and Aerith developing their “own world” together. Why would Tifa be jealous if Aerith was only developing a world of friendship with Cloud? It is clear that Tifa is jealous of the world her “love rival” is forming with Cloud because the world he is forming with Tifa’s “love rival” is romantic, which is exactly why Aerith is considered Tifa’s love rival in the first place. Tifa continues to be jealous of Cloud and Aerith’s “world” during Advent Children, probably because she admits she doesn’t know if Cloud loves her.
16. “Looks good. You are perfect for each other!” “Aerith’s star and Cloud’s star! They show a great future!” — “Poor Tifa!”~Cait Sith, Final Fantasy VII
“After solving the puzzle about Cait Sith’s replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith’s affinity. Cait Sith’s lines, which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith’s wedding, now makes it more painful.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
The argument about Cait Sith’s prediction should not revolve around how reliable he is. The argument should be about what was SE’s intent for including this wedding prediction in the game. SE could have had Aerith ask Cait Sith about her future and Cait Sith could have said, “You will have a bright future full of many happy times!” — this would have set the player up to get their heart broken when she was killed by Sephiroth. Instead, they specifically decided to include a prediction about Aerith’s romantic future with Cloud. It was a romantic prediction about her future with Cloud, not just a generic prediction about her future. So given the context of the game and how things were progressing between Cloud and Aerith, it is obvious why SE included this wedding prediction — so the gamer would have the idea in their head that Cloud and Aerith had the possibility of sharing a romantic future together, which would then be destroyed by the hands of the evil Sephiroth. A generic prediction about Aerith’s future would not have been nearly as meaningful or impactful to the gamer, which is why they specifically made the prediction about Aerith’s romantic future with Cloud. The romance that was clearly developing between Cloud and Aerith, in addition to a prediction about a their romantic future together, makes her death all the more sad. SE killed off a romantic love interest to Cloud because it would be more impactful to the gamer. If SE had killed Barret, I can guarantee you that it would not have been as memorable or as impactful to the gamer. One of the biggest reasons Aerith’s death is so sad is because she wasn’t just a friend to Cloud. Aerith had a possible romantic future with Cloud, which is exactly what SE wanted us to think, so that when they killed her, it was that much more painful and heartbreaking for those of us playing the game. Luckily, their love transcends traditional barriers and continues in the spiritual world. Furthermore, SE refers to this prediction as a wedding prediction. Why would they refer to it as a wedding prediction if it was not meant to highlight the romantic connection Cloud and Aerith have in the game?
17. Final Fantasy VII: After Cloud and Aerith share a spiritual connection, Cloud says in the final moments of the game, “An answer from the Planet… the Promised Land… I think I can meet her… there.”
Cloud wants to reunite with Aerith in the Promised Land.
18. “You should have… An older girlfriend, one that would take care of you. I think that would be the perfect type for you.” ~Mrs. Strife (Cloud’s Mom)
I’m looking at this quote from SE’s intent. Obviously Cloud’s Mom saying this means nothing. But what was SE’s intent for including this? Why would they choose for Cloud to have this flashback while he was sleeping in Aerith’s house? Just to provide some context: Cloud had just met Aerith. He agreed to be her bodyguard for the price of one date. He had just spent time laughing with her. Protecting her. Then while Cloud is sleeping in her house, SE decides to throw in this flashback where Cloud’s Mother talks about girlfriends and dating someone older. Then right after this flashback is over, you see Cloud in his room and Aerith in her room. Clearly this was meant to set these two up as romantic love interests.
19. “Marlene is a sharp girl - Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.” ~Final Fantasy VII, 25th Anniversary Ultimania
Therefore, this is the canon version of this scene:
Marlene: “Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!”
Cloud: “Let’s hope so.”
Marlene: “I won’t tell Tifa.”
20. “The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times. But, even if someone who has watched it interprets it differently, then that is just another answer.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
21. “As for Cloud… He sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness lives on inside him.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
22. Cloud and Tifa expressing mutual feelings =/= romantic relationship.
Although this is a reasonable assumption, it is *NOT* always the case that expressing mutual feelings means a romantic relationship begins. As we can see, Cloud and Tifa are living in a world of very rare and unique circumstances that I believe prevented them from ever turning their mutual feelings into a romantic relationship.
23. “The place where he awakens. That is Cloud’s Promised Land……” ~Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Square Enix
Cloud says he wants to find Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of FFVII.
Then, during AC, Cloud realizes that Aerith will always be with him, so his Promised Land is wherever Aerith is — which is why it says Cloud’s Promised Land is the place where he awakens (ie: the place where he sees Aerith)
And the reason I connect this quote more to Aerith is because of Cloud’s line at the end of FFVII where he says he thinks he can meet Aerith in the Promised Land.
24. “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Tifa’s profile, FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, pg. 42-47
25. “I never blamed you. Not once. You came for me. That’s all that matters.”~Aerith Gainsborough
26. “A story of a love that could never be…” ~Official Square Enix commercial referring to Cloud x Aerith
27. “I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
28. Cloud to Aerith in Cosmo Canyon: “But, I’m -I mean- we’re here for you, right?”
29. “Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.”~page 31, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix
30. “First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture… I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII
31. Cloud agrees to be Aerith’s bodyguard for the price of one date.
32. Cloud visits Aerith’s Church frequently after her death (even before being diagnosed with Geostigma).
When Tifa finds out she says, “Which is it? A memory or us?”
33. In Advent Children, when Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes the most, the first person that comes to his mind is Aerith.
34. Cloud and Aerith share their first of two dates at Green Park in the Sector 6 Slum: “Date in the Park: In Scene 04-10, Zack and Aerith have a date in Green Park in the sector 6 slum. An identical situation is seen in “FFVII” as well, which features a scene of Cloud and Aerith on a date in the same park.”~CC Ultimania, Square Enix
35. “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII Story Playback, Page 111
36. Cloud x Aerith have official SE artwork together, similar to other canon Final Fantasy couples
37. “It was the sound of Cloud’s heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith’s death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth…There was nothing she could do about Cloud’s suffering and the pain ached in her heart.”~Maiden of the Planet, Square Enix
Cloud’s heart broke when Aerith died.
37. “First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same…” ~Nojima interview about On the Way to a Smile at the Square-Enix website
38. Final Fantasy VII Advent Children: During the ending credits, Cloud is shown riding his motorcycle through numerous flower fields. Although Cloud is a delivery boy, he is shown riding his motorcycle through flower fields.
Nomura said in the Reunion Files that, “…we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors - yellow and white - are the same as the flowers in Aerith’s church.”
In addition, Nomura states, “With Aerith, ‘flowers’ have been her image throughout the series.”
39. Final Fantasy Dissidia: At the end of Dissidia, Cloud is seen entering a flower field. This flower field is eerily similar to the flower fields Aerith has appeared in, and the flower field shown during the ending credits of Advent Children. Cloud is also holding Aerith’s Holy materia. Before this takes place, it is stated by Zidane that each character is, “…returning to where we’re supposed to be.” Cloud is supposed to be with Aerith, which is why he returns to a flower field. Interestingly, Squall of Final Fantasy VIII is seen leaving when a white feather falls from the sky. This feather represents Rinoa. The parallels between Cloud x Aerith and Squall x Rinoa are obvious. During the game Cloud also says, “The one I really want to meet is…” And although he doesn’t finish his sentence, given the ending scene of Dissidia and the ending of Final Fantasy VII, it is clear who Cloud has a desire to meet in the Promised Land.
40. Final Fantasy IX: The Flower Girl calls Knight VII “cute” and Knight VII calls the Flower Girl “beautiful”. Their entire conversation is very flirtatious and romantic.
41. “At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, FFVII Dismantled
42: Final Fantasy Tactics: Cloud meets a Flower Girl. Cloud essentially has the same conversation with this Flower Girl as Cloud has with Aerith during the beginning of Final Fantasy VII.
Please read these similar quotes between FFT and FFVII:
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling… My eyes…they’re burning.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “I lost…a very important thing…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud lost Aerith in Final Fantasy VII.
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “Ever since, I’ve been lost. Who am I? What should I do?
What about this pain…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud:“What about US… what are WE supposed to do?”
Cloud “What about my pain?”
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud “Must go…to the Promised Land.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “The Promised Land…I think I can meet her… there.”
43. The hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith in Advent Children is referred to as a “homage” by SE, which highlights the romantic relationship between Cloud and Aerith that has continued into the spiritual world.
“The ending scene of the battle with Bahamut, the scene where Aerith reaches out her hand, is homage to the last scene from a previous production. It was Tetsuya (Nomura)’s idea….” ~Nojima, Reunion Files
44. Cloud: “Here I met a flower girl. She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or older by one or two years but the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger. (…) Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled
45. Cloud Strife: “The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don’t mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry…… or get angry…… What about us…… what are WE supposed to do?”
46. “After stopping Hojo from going amuck, the conversation with Tifa before they rush into the Northern Crater diverges into two conditions, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud. When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says “Were you listening?” and stamps on tiptoe. On the other hand, when degree gets higher, the conversation of the scene that they spend the night will have strong emotions. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa will say “Were you watching?” and feels terribly shy” ~page 198, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega
47. “Deviation – Two versions of the conversation before the final battle. Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa’s affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two’s conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly.” ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania
48. “Another event is when the party was dismissed and after everyone left for their own places separately, Cloud and Tifa spent the night together. At that moment, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud, the event of “dialogues exchanged between them from dusk to dawn” and “Tifa’s reaction and lines when she found out that everyone might see (or hear) that circumstance” will be different.” ~FFVII Dismantled, page 201
49. “And having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.” ~Interview with the creators, pg. 8-13, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
50. SE officially named Cloud and Aerith the Emperor and Empress in Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade.
LINK
50 Epic Reasons to Support Cloud x Aerith
1. “Cloud was her friend, her *koibito* (lover in Japanese) - a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected.” ~Case of Lifestream: White, Square Enix
2. Nomura of Square Enix doesn’t know the nature of Cloud and Tifa’s relationship *AFTER* the Highwind scene:
“For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don’t have any clue.” ~Nomura, Dorimaga interview, published at Flaregamer
3. Of the love triangles on SE’s “For The One I Love Page” (FTOIL), Cloud Strife is the only hero involved in a love triangle pictured with both of his romantic love interests in two canon scenes of romance (see the first row of images). Since Cloud is pictured with both Aerith and Tifa on a page discussing romantic love, the FFVII love triangle is the only unsolved Final Fantasy love triangle.
Some say that because the caption under Cloud and Aerith’s date doesn’t directly mention Aerith by name, it somehow invalidates Cloud and Aerith’s presence on the FTOIL page. However, the Cloud x Aerith date *IS* canon. Therefore, the caption is irrelevant. The caption under Cloud and Aerith’s was there to represent *ALL* the dates on the FTOIL page because *ALL* the dates are romantic (ie: because they are *DATES*). However, SE pictured Cloud and Aerith’s date because it is the *canon* date, and because we are meant to apply the FTOIL page directly to their canon date. The reason we only see the HA Highwind scene on the FTOIL page is because it would have been inappropriate to discuss or include the LA Highwind scene on a page titled “For The One I Love”. But if you could get different characters for the HA Highwind scene like you can for the date, that would have also been included on the FTOIL page. SE lists a reference page above Cloud and Tifa’s image on the FTOIL page so readers can find out that the HA version is not the *only* version, the HA version is simply the only appropriate version of the Highwind scene to include on the FTOIL page. Since Cloud is pictured with both of his love interests in two canon scenes of romance on a page titled, “For The One I Love,” Cloud can love either Aerith or Tifa. In other words, all the other love triangles have been solved *EXCEPT* for Final Fantasy VII because Cloud Strife is the only hero involved in a love triangle pictured with *BOTH* of his romantic love interests.
4. Denzel and Barret are apart of the same family, it’s just that Denzel is not *living* with Barret, which is why Barret does not appear in any of the quotes that talk about Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel *living* together. Remember this quote?
“After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the “Seventh Heaven” bar. Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together.” ~Case of Tifa
It says that the, “three of them [Cloud, Tifa, Marlene]” began *living* together *AFTER* Barret set off on a “journey”. This unequivocally proves that when the words “live”/”living”/”lived” are used to describe Cloud, Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel, it is ONLY excluding Barret because Barret is not TECHNICALLY “living” with them.
5. According to Square Enix’s *relationship charts* found in the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends *only* in both the Final Fantasy VII relationship chart and the Advent Children relationship chart. In addition, Cloud and Tifa never have mutual favor arrows, either.
The FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania provides two relationship charts. One for FFVII and one for AC. By including two charts it is meant to compare and contrast relationships in FFVII to relationships in AC. Essentially, having two charts helps highlight the *changes* the relationships have gone through between FFVII and AC. However, Cloud and Tifa’s relationship does not go through any *changes* because they are referred to as “childhood friends” in both charts. However, that is not the case for Cloud and Aerith. The FFVII chart states Cloud is Aerith’s “bodyguard.” Then, for the AC chart, it states Cloud feels a, “sense of guilt” towards Aerith. That’s because Cloud failed to protect Aerith — meaning he failed as her bodyguard. The difference between Cloud and Aerith’s two charts was the perfect way for SE to show us how their relationship changed between FFVII and AC — Cloud failed as her “bodyguard” in FFVII, so he feels a sense of “guilt” towards her in AC. Why did SE not show any changes between Cloud and Tifa’s relationship? Answer: because Cloud and Tifa’s relationship did not change between FFVII and AC.
6. Cloud, Tifa, and Barret create a family together after the HAHW scene. Marlene is Barret’s daughter and invites Cloud into their family. The family formed was not created for romantic reasons or formed from a romantic place like most families are.
Marlene: “I’ll put Cloud in our family too.”
Cloud: “I appreciate that.” ~Revised Case of Tifa
7. The Cloud x Aerith Golden Saucer date is confirmed as canon within the compilation:
- “#111: The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A PROMISED date [there is only one promised date in the game] that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now…Aerith: “I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different… No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…” ~Final Fantasy Art Collection
- “In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally,the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled
- “Oh, Cloud…I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
8. Cloud has a separate bed in his private room during Advent Children:
Cloud: “I want to drink alone.”
Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, “Then drink in your room.” ~Case of Tifa
People often say that because there is a lack of other furniture in Cloud’s room (like a dresser), it somehow invalidates the fact that Cloud has a bed in his room. But how does not having other furniture mean Cloud can’t sleep in that bed? The point is, I find it hard to believe that SE would include a random bed in Cloud’s room just for the hell of it. If Cloud doesn’t sleep there, who does? Until we see Cloud and Tifa sleeping together, it only makes sense that Cloud sleeps in the bed found in his room. This is evidence that a romantic relationship did not begin between Cloud and Tifa after the Highwind scene.
9. “Each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day…” ~Nomura, Square Enix
When *undying* is applied to a feeling or emotion that someone has, it is eternal and forever. So although you can make the argument that *undying* when applied to a fictional creature doesn’t mean eternal and forever, when the word “eternal” is applied to a human emotion or feeling, it *IS* eternal and forever. Therefore, it does not make sense that Nomura would be referring to Cloud’s guilt as *undying* when the entire point of Advent Children is to rid Cloud of his guilt.
10. Cloud and Tifa living together in Advent Children does not mean a romantic relationship exists. Remember Cid and Shera in FFVII? Also, remember that Cloud has a separate bed in his private room and that the family formed was formed with Barret and Marlene.
11. “There’s no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in Final Fantasy VII might be answered.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
Nomura specifically says that although the two universes of Kingdom Hearts and FFVII are separate, the Kingdom Hearts universe might help answer questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aerith as it pertains to Final Fantasy VII’s universe. Cloud and Aerith are seen together at the end of Kingdom Hearts similar to other romantic couples.
12. Tifa admits to not knowing if Cloud loves her *AFTER* the HAHW scene:
“Do you love me?”
Cloud opened his eyes. He looked perplexed.
“Hey, Cloud. Do you love Marlene?”
“Yeah. But… sometimes I don’t know how to act around her.” ~Case of Tifa
13. Aerith Gainsborough: “A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins who is engraved in Cloud’s heart for the rest of his life” ~DoC Japanese game manual, Square Enix
14. Love beyond death is a common theme in Final Fantasy (Tidus x Yuna, Shuyin x Lenne, Laguna x Raine, Ashe x Rasler, etc.) Plus, in Final Fantasy VII, you have Vincent’s bond with Lucrecia. Vincent can see her and speak with her in DoC, similar to the way Cloud can interact with Aerith in AC/ACC.
15. Tifa’s jealously over Cloud and Aerith’s relationship:
“The thing which she is unable to hide in her irritation towards Cloud is the fact that he isn’t merely dragging the past around, but because that reason might perhaps be related to Aerith.
- FFVII: Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings.
- AC: Upon knowing that Cloud had been residing in Aerith’s church after leaving the place they had been living in together, her expression becomes complex.” ~Tifa’s character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
One of the lines specifically says that Tifa let her “peevish feelings” slip when she saw Cloud and Aerith developing their “own world” together. Why would Tifa be jealous if Aerith was only developing a world of friendship with Cloud? It is clear that Tifa is jealous of the world her “love rival” is forming with Cloud because the world he is forming with Tifa’s “love rival” is romantic, which is exactly why Aerith is considered Tifa’s love rival in the first place. Tifa continues to be jealous of Cloud and Aerith’s “world” during Advent Children, probably because she admits she doesn’t know if Cloud loves her.
16. “Looks good. You are perfect for each other!” “Aerith’s star and Cloud’s star! They show a great future!” — “Poor Tifa!”~Cait Sith, Final Fantasy VII
“After solving the puzzle about Cait Sith’s replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith’s affinity. Cait Sith’s lines, which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith’s wedding, now makes it more painful.” ~Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
The argument about Cait Sith’s prediction should not revolve around how reliable he is. The argument should be about what was SE’s intent for including this wedding prediction in the game. SE could have had Aerith ask Cait Sith about her future and Cait Sith could have said, “You will have a bright future full of many happy times!” — this would have set the player up to get their heart broken when she was killed by Sephiroth. Instead, they specifically decided to include a prediction about Aerith’s romantic future with Cloud. It was a romantic prediction about her future with Cloud, not just a generic prediction about her future. So given the context of the game and how things were progressing between Cloud and Aerith, it is obvious why SE included this wedding prediction — so the gamer would have the idea in their head that Cloud and Aerith had the possibility of sharing a romantic future together, which would then be destroyed by the hands of the evil Sephiroth. A generic prediction about Aerith’s future would not have been nearly as meaningful or impactful to the gamer, which is why they specifically made the prediction about Aerith’s romantic future with Cloud. The romance that was clearly developing between Cloud and Aerith, in addition to a prediction about a their romantic future together, makes her death all the more sad. SE killed off a romantic love interest to Cloud because it would be more impactful to the gamer. If SE had killed Barret, I can guarantee you that it would not have been as memorable or as impactful to the gamer. One of the biggest reasons Aerith’s death is so sad is because she wasn’t just a friend to Cloud. Aerith had a possible romantic future with Cloud, which is exactly what SE wanted us to think, so that when they killed her, it was that much more painful and heartbreaking for those of us playing the game. Luckily, their love transcends traditional barriers and continues in the spiritual world. Furthermore, SE refers to this prediction as a wedding prediction. Why would they refer to it as a wedding prediction if it was not meant to highlight the romantic connection Cloud and Aerith have in the game?
17. Final Fantasy VII: After Cloud and Aerith share a spiritual connection, Cloud says in the final moments of the game, “An answer from the Planet… the Promised Land… I think I can meet her… there.”
Cloud wants to reunite with Aerith in the Promised Land.
18. “You should have… An older girlfriend, one that would take care of you. I think that would be the perfect type for you.” ~Mrs. Strife (Cloud’s Mom)
I’m looking at this quote from SE’s intent. Obviously Cloud’s Mom saying this means nothing. But what was SE’s intent for including this? Why would they choose for Cloud to have this flashback while he was sleeping in Aerith’s house? Just to provide some context: Cloud had just met Aerith. He agreed to be her bodyguard for the price of one date. He had just spent time laughing with her. Protecting her. Then while Cloud is sleeping in her house, SE decides to throw in this flashback where Cloud’s Mother talks about girlfriends and dating someone older. Then right after this flashback is over, you see Cloud in his room and Aerith in her room. Clearly this was meant to set these two up as romantic love interests.
19. “Marlene is a sharp girl - Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.” ~Final Fantasy VII, 25th Anniversary Ultimania
Therefore, this is the canon version of this scene:
Marlene: “Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!”
Cloud: “Let’s hope so.”
Marlene: “I won’t tell Tifa.”
20. “The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times. But, even if someone who has watched it interprets it differently, then that is just another answer.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
21. “As for Cloud… He sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness lives on inside him.” ~Nomura, Square Enix
22. Cloud and Tifa expressing mutual feelings =/= romantic relationship.
Although this is a reasonable assumption, it is *NOT* always the case that expressing mutual feelings means a romantic relationship begins. As we can see, Cloud and Tifa are living in a world of very rare and unique circumstances that I believe prevented them from ever turning their mutual feelings into a romantic relationship.
23. “The place where he awakens. That is Cloud’s Promised Land……” ~Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Square Enix
Cloud says he wants to find Aerith in the Promised Land at the end of FFVII.
Then, during AC, Cloud realizes that Aerith will always be with him, so his Promised Land is wherever Aerith is — which is why it says Cloud’s Promised Land is the place where he awakens (ie: the place where he sees Aerith)
And the reason I connect this quote more to Aerith is because of Cloud’s line at the end of FFVII where he says he thinks he can meet Aerith in the Promised Land.
24. “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s. Tifa’s complicated feelings continue even in AC, two years after Aerith had departed the world.” ~Tifa’s profile, FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, pg. 42-47
25. “I never blamed you. Not once. You came for me. That’s all that matters.”~Aerith Gainsborough
26. “A story of a love that could never be…” ~Official Square Enix commercial referring to Cloud x Aerith
27. “I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, Final Fantasy VII Dismantled, Square Enix
28. Cloud to Aerith in Cosmo Canyon: “But, I’m -I mean- we’re here for you, right?”
29. “Although in the beginning Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.”~page 31, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega, Square Enix
30. “First off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. Two completely different people, but look exactly the same. The way you walk, gesture… I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different…” ~Aerith, Final Fantasy VII
31. Cloud agrees to be Aerith’s bodyguard for the price of one date.
32. Cloud visits Aerith’s Church frequently after her death (even before being diagnosed with Geostigma).
When Tifa finds out she says, “Which is it? A memory or us?”
33. In Advent Children, when Sephiroth asks Cloud what he cherishes the most, the first person that comes to his mind is Aerith.
34. Cloud and Aerith share their first of two dates at Green Park in the Sector 6 Slum: “Date in the Park: In Scene 04-10, Zack and Aerith have a date in Green Park in the sector 6 slum. An identical situation is seen in “FFVII” as well, which features a scene of Cloud and Aerith on a date in the same park.”~CC Ultimania, Square Enix
35. “After the explosion of First Reactor, Cloud met Aerith while running away alone. Cloud left the place, remembering the mysterious feeling he had for Aerith from the small conversation. He then reunited with AVALANCHE safely, and left for their base…” ~Final Fantasy VII Story Playback, Page 111
36. Cloud x Aerith have official SE artwork together, similar to other canon Final Fantasy couples
37. “It was the sound of Cloud’s heart cracking. It was the cry of his heart that could never be healed of the grief he had towards Aerith’s death, the blame towards himself and the hatred he had for Sephiroth…There was nothing she could do about Cloud’s suffering and the pain ached in her heart.”~Maiden of the Planet, Square Enix
Cloud’s heart broke when Aerith died.
37. “First off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same…” ~Nojima interview about On the Way to a Smile at the Square-Enix website
38. Final Fantasy VII Advent Children: During the ending credits, Cloud is shown riding his motorcycle through numerous flower fields. Although Cloud is a delivery boy, he is shown riding his motorcycle through flower fields.
Nomura said in the Reunion Files that, “…we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors - yellow and white - are the same as the flowers in Aerith’s church.”
In addition, Nomura states, “With Aerith, ‘flowers’ have been her image throughout the series.”
39. Final Fantasy Dissidia: At the end of Dissidia, Cloud is seen entering a flower field. This flower field is eerily similar to the flower fields Aerith has appeared in, and the flower field shown during the ending credits of Advent Children. Cloud is also holding Aerith’s Holy materia. Before this takes place, it is stated by Zidane that each character is, “…returning to where we’re supposed to be.” Cloud is supposed to be with Aerith, which is why he returns to a flower field. Interestingly, Squall of Final Fantasy VIII is seen leaving when a white feather falls from the sky. This feather represents Rinoa. The parallels between Cloud x Aerith and Squall x Rinoa are obvious. During the game Cloud also says, “The one I really want to meet is…” And although he doesn’t finish his sentence, given the ending scene of Dissidia and the ending of Final Fantasy VII, it is clear who Cloud has a desire to meet in the Promised Land.
40. Final Fantasy IX: The Flower Girl calls Knight VII “cute” and Knight VII calls the Flower Girl “beautiful”. Their entire conversation is very flirtatious and romantic.
41. “At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack.” ~Aerith’s monologue in Gongaga, FFVII Dismantled
42: Final Fantasy Tactics: Cloud meets a Flower Girl. Cloud essentially has the same conversation with this Flower Girl as Cloud has with Aerith during the beginning of Final Fantasy VII.
Please read these similar quotes between FFT and FFVII:
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling… My eyes…they’re burning.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “I lost…a very important thing…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud lost Aerith in Final Fantasy VII.
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud: “Ever since, I’ve been lost. Who am I? What should I do?
What about this pain…”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud:“What about US… what are WE supposed to do?”
Cloud “What about my pain?”
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Cloud “Must go…to the Promised Land.”
Final Fantasy VII:
Cloud: “The Promised Land…I think I can meet her… there.”
43. The hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith in Advent Children is referred to as a “homage” by SE, which highlights the romantic relationship between Cloud and Aerith that has continued into the spiritual world.
“The ending scene of the battle with Bahamut, the scene where Aerith reaches out her hand, is homage to the last scene from a previous production. It was Tetsuya (Nomura)’s idea….” ~Nojima, Reunion Files
44. Cloud: “Here I met a flower girl. She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or older by one or two years but the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger. (…) Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.” ~Final Fantasy Dismantled
45. Cloud Strife: “The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don’t mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry…… or get angry…… What about us…… what are WE supposed to do?”
46. “After stopping Hojo from going amuck, the conversation with Tifa before they rush into the Northern Crater diverges into two conditions, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud. When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says “Were you listening?” and stamps on tiptoe. On the other hand, when degree gets higher, the conversation of the scene that they spend the night will have strong emotions. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa will say “Were you watching?” and feels terribly shy” ~page 198, Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega
47. “Deviation – Two versions of the conversation before the final battle. Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa’s affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two’s conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly.” ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania
48. “Another event is when the party was dismissed and after everyone left for their own places separately, Cloud and Tifa spent the night together. At that moment, according to Tifa’s affection rating with Cloud, the event of “dialogues exchanged between them from dusk to dawn” and “Tifa’s reaction and lines when she found out that everyone might see (or hear) that circumstance” will be different.” ~FFVII Dismantled, page 201
49. “And having two heroines, Aerith and Tifa, and having the hero waver between them, at the time that was something new.” ~Interview with the creators, pg. 8-13, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
50. SE officially named Cloud and Aerith the Emperor and Empress in Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade.
LINK
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
no. just no. i mean no offense at all (and ive heard somewhere that forums dont like being "bumped" so if i have bumped this in any way i guess...sorry? :T) but this has to be the worst thread of all the love triangle debates. the one on neoseeker.com is MUCH better i must say. (http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/116...love-triangle-does-everyone-hate-aeris/29.htm)
before i go into a rage i have to give some kudos to Sheechiibii and Six. they are cloti-THE TRUE COUPLE OF FFVII. but what you guys have wrong is that you think cloti is your opinion. dont worry, cloti is very well canon. S/E has repeated us this multiple times for even a fool to know. i know i may seem rude (especially since this is my first post) but i must go to the chase. firstly i have read (excruciatingly) all the pages and none of them ever include this brilliantly done article done by squall. all clotis go to this, and i have witnessed cleriths (although i pronounce it aeris, i will type up aerith for the sake of anyone who wants to complain about it) instantly go to cloti when reading this. currently i am working on my own cloti and zerith proof but im still thinking of where to post it. but i digress. squall is right. he isnt spouting his opinion like 80% people do on this thread. he gives proof from S/E theirselves. here it is. http://thelifestream.net/lifestream...angle-of-ffvii-an-analysis-by-squall_of_seed/
i have also seen the phrase "dim crush" when using clouds love for tifa as a child. absolutely wrong. cloud's "dim" crush on tifa was reaching near high stalker levels of obsession with her because he was dealing with a feeling that was too big for an 8 year old. romantic love. yup thats right, and ill repeat it again. ROMANTIC LOVE. a "dim crush" is blushing when you're around that person and sneaking looks at said person. cloud was gazing out his window (the subconscious scene gave us a clue that he apparently did it every day like it was normal), following wherever she went, thinking tifa blamed him for her almost fatal fall when she didnt even know he was there, and even taking the promise to points of putting his life on the line with no hesitations. now, im not saying tifa wasnt his main support to making the promise, the ultimania even says that tifa "strong armed" him into doing it. but it also says that it was 100% clouds choice to take it to such a level that he was obsessed with THAT too. in fact "obsession" is the exact word S/E uses. also on the matter, they say that because of cloud's obsession with the promise he misses direct orders from higher rankers in before crisis. did any one play/look at crisis core (cleriths have also been converted at this too)? when a week before the incident he nearly got killed for her? and when tifa was going to uncover his helmet he begged her not to? he had already fulfilled the promise. then a week later he slices sephiroth's side and dashes back to tifa (dont tell me you didnt see him lovingly and tenderly stroking her face in that scene or you are crazy) and thinks she maybe is dead. he had already fulfilled the promise TWICE now. then he attacks sephiroth in a rage and ultimately kills him, making his fulfillment a total of three times, DOUBLE the amount of the promise. and remember when cloud tells tifa in the highwind scene that NOTHING'S CHANGED and he will STILL keep the promise? this proves that from the start when cloud swore he would save tifa he secretly intended (and intends) to keep it no matter what. if he fulfills it 8 billion times he will keep it to this day.
also there was an unneeded annoying subject that was more than 8 pages long about the date. because no-one had gave links to squalls article (if they had even read it in the beginning), nobody knew that the the dates are officially stated as NON-CANON. it is based absolutely on your gameplay, proving that aerith's (as well as everyone's, even tifa's) date is as real as frodo the hobbit. if someone had just posted squall's answer it would have stopped a lot if useless squabbling.
and that "logic" that "cwowd lawfed wit awif foist" is wrong. first cloud never laughed with aerith. ever. the fake cloud did though. this is even explained in clouds profile that he laughed under JENOVA'S CONTROL at that point. go on cleriths. give any points when REAL cloud loved aerith romantically, because all ive seen are quotes when hes fake cloud.
furthermore, the ridiculous argument over "did cloud and tifa have sex" would have been over in half the amount of pages it has now if someone had only posted squall's argument (if they had even read it) that yes indeed, they did have sex. there is also the argument of "on rocks....really? no they didnt."
1. you cant argue on S/E's statements.
2. if its the last day on the planet they have with each other i think they could push aside the fact that it was "uncomfortable". anyway there was grass to be seen. it wasnt on a pure rocky mountain. stop being nervous and in denial. yes, cloud and tifa made love that night. hence clouds unusual happy demeanor when talking with yuffie, who thinks he's "sick". and both tifa and cloud got teased the next day. kissing is hardly something to tease about with two adults. sex is though. and before you say "there are two versions so therefore its not canon" squall also explains that the ultimania only notes the HIGH affection scene and doesnt even hint the low version, making it canon. on the next page is about the DATES being non-canon though.
and in the profile of cloud's official character aerith isnt even talked about until the look-through of cloud's timeline and all i see is
aaaand thats all we see. there is nothing romantic written with cloud and aerith. at all. if clerith was canon wouldnt you think there would have been SOMETHING on it? but it does say
(http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/348/cloud-strife-character-profile-p36-41/)
there is still LOADS for me to say but its 1 in the morning and i kinda have to sleep. but it goes to say with this proof that cloud loves tifa. and always will. and same for tifa.
(this was originally a huge paragraph but i edited it. sorry for the people who read the original paragraph. ipods dont have the enter button so i couldnt have separated the subjects.)
before i go into a rage i have to give some kudos to Sheechiibii and Six. they are cloti-THE TRUE COUPLE OF FFVII. but what you guys have wrong is that you think cloti is your opinion. dont worry, cloti is very well canon. S/E has repeated us this multiple times for even a fool to know. i know i may seem rude (especially since this is my first post) but i must go to the chase. firstly i have read (excruciatingly) all the pages and none of them ever include this brilliantly done article done by squall. all clotis go to this, and i have witnessed cleriths (although i pronounce it aeris, i will type up aerith for the sake of anyone who wants to complain about it) instantly go to cloti when reading this. currently i am working on my own cloti and zerith proof but im still thinking of where to post it. but i digress. squall is right. he isnt spouting his opinion like 80% people do on this thread. he gives proof from S/E theirselves. here it is. http://thelifestream.net/lifestream...angle-of-ffvii-an-analysis-by-squall_of_seed/
i have also seen the phrase "dim crush" when using clouds love for tifa as a child. absolutely wrong. cloud's "dim" crush on tifa was reaching near high stalker levels of obsession with her because he was dealing with a feeling that was too big for an 8 year old. romantic love. yup thats right, and ill repeat it again. ROMANTIC LOVE. a "dim crush" is blushing when you're around that person and sneaking looks at said person. cloud was gazing out his window (the subconscious scene gave us a clue that he apparently did it every day like it was normal), following wherever she went, thinking tifa blamed him for her almost fatal fall when she didnt even know he was there, and even taking the promise to points of putting his life on the line with no hesitations. now, im not saying tifa wasnt his main support to making the promise, the ultimania even says that tifa "strong armed" him into doing it. but it also says that it was 100% clouds choice to take it to such a level that he was obsessed with THAT too. in fact "obsession" is the exact word S/E uses. also on the matter, they say that because of cloud's obsession with the promise he misses direct orders from higher rankers in before crisis. did any one play/look at crisis core (cleriths have also been converted at this too)? when a week before the incident he nearly got killed for her? and when tifa was going to uncover his helmet he begged her not to? he had already fulfilled the promise. then a week later he slices sephiroth's side and dashes back to tifa (dont tell me you didnt see him lovingly and tenderly stroking her face in that scene or you are crazy) and thinks she maybe is dead. he had already fulfilled the promise TWICE now. then he attacks sephiroth in a rage and ultimately kills him, making his fulfillment a total of three times, DOUBLE the amount of the promise. and remember when cloud tells tifa in the highwind scene that NOTHING'S CHANGED and he will STILL keep the promise? this proves that from the start when cloud swore he would save tifa he secretly intended (and intends) to keep it no matter what. if he fulfills it 8 billion times he will keep it to this day.
also there was an unneeded annoying subject that was more than 8 pages long about the date. because no-one had gave links to squalls article (if they had even read it in the beginning), nobody knew that the the dates are officially stated as NON-CANON. it is based absolutely on your gameplay, proving that aerith's (as well as everyone's, even tifa's) date is as real as frodo the hobbit. if someone had just posted squall's answer it would have stopped a lot if useless squabbling.
and that "logic" that "cwowd lawfed wit awif foist" is wrong. first cloud never laughed with aerith. ever. the fake cloud did though. this is even explained in clouds profile that he laughed under JENOVA'S CONTROL at that point. go on cleriths. give any points when REAL cloud loved aerith romantically, because all ive seen are quotes when hes fake cloud.
furthermore, the ridiculous argument over "did cloud and tifa have sex" would have been over in half the amount of pages it has now if someone had only posted squall's argument (if they had even read it) that yes indeed, they did have sex. there is also the argument of "on rocks....really? no they didnt."
1. you cant argue on S/E's statements.
2. if its the last day on the planet they have with each other i think they could push aside the fact that it was "uncomfortable". anyway there was grass to be seen. it wasnt on a pure rocky mountain. stop being nervous and in denial. yes, cloud and tifa made love that night. hence clouds unusual happy demeanor when talking with yuffie, who thinks he's "sick". and both tifa and cloud got teased the next day. kissing is hardly something to tease about with two adults. sex is though. and before you say "there are two versions so therefore its not canon" squall also explains that the ultimania only notes the HIGH affection scene and doesnt even hint the low version, making it canon. on the next page is about the DATES being non-canon though.
and in the profile of cloud's official character aerith isnt even talked about until the look-through of cloud's timeline and all i see is
aaaand thats all we see. there is nothing romantic written with cloud and aerith. at all. if clerith was canon wouldnt you think there would have been SOMETHING on it? but it does say
(http://thelifestream.net/lifestream-projects/translations/348/cloud-strife-character-profile-p36-41/)
there is still LOADS for me to say but its 1 in the morning and i kinda have to sleep. but it goes to say with this proof that cloud loves tifa. and always will. and same for tifa.
(this was originally a huge paragraph but i edited it. sorry for the people who read the original paragraph. ipods dont have the enter button so i couldnt have separated the subjects.)
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NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
yes im very sorry for that. i was on an ipod and i really wanted to make it "read-able" but i couldnt. the problem was that i wasnt on the computer. i changed some of the words, took out the typos, added something else, and most importantly made paragraphs. : D so nao you can read.
TL;DR
I don't know if this has been posted before... But I'll just leave this here...
Poor Cloud x Aerith fans
If anything, it's Cloud x Tifa and Zack x Aerith, looking at all everyone has been through...
I don't know if this has been posted before... But I'll just leave this here...
Poor Cloud x Aerith fans
If anything, it's Cloud x Tifa and Zack x Aerith, looking at all everyone has been through...
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
honestly its not that long. it wouldnt even qualify as 2 and a half pages lol
LOL I READ THIS BEFORE!!!! XD so funneh : D
LOL I READ THIS BEFORE!!!! XD so funneh : D
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
ok i can talk some more. : D as i thought, those quotes are when cloud is ZACK cloud. not the real cloud. in fact, zach cloud made next to no moves compared to aerith's.
"but cloud agreed on the date!" yeah, and tried to DITICH her in the dead of night in her OWN HOUSE. that some dedication isnt it? and cloud was also leaving her house to go to who do you think? tifa.
"but cloud was broken when she died!" um, yeah. im sure he did. you guys sure do state the obvious a lot dont you? cloud was clearly devastated when she died. but was he the only one? no. everybody felt horrible. and when he talks about aerith, switch "she" with "he". does cloud seem gay? no. he seems perfectly fine. there is nothing romantic about this. cloud is angry and sad for his friend.
"but cloud has undying feelings for her!" you mean he DID have undying feelings. squall says that this statement came out BEFORE advent children,and in the movie, we see his "undying feeling" is nothing but guilt, paired with zack's. last i check, cloud wanted to get over his guilt to he could get to what he truly felt happy with, TIFA and the children. his FAMILY.
"but clouds mother! remember what she said?" that he should have an older girl to take care of him? sure i remember. do you also remember that she said "I think that would be good for you?" is clouds mother her son? no. so this is HER view on what girl cloud should be with. this does sound like aerith, no doubt, but do you also remember that cloud said he WASNT INTERESTED into what his mom said? in case you forgot, cloud is still obsessed with tifa at this point, who is technically not even one year younger than him. only by months.
"ok, cant you at least admit that there COULD have been a relationship with cloud and aerith?" no. because there wasnt. the idea that cloud and aerith were going to end up together was the RED HERRING of the game. cloud -the REAL cloud - was (and is) very passionately in love with tifa. it was ALWAYS tifa. like i said before, please give me anything the real cloud wanted from aerith but forgiveness, right along with zack.
"why didnt we see cloud and tifa hug or kiss then?"did cloud and aerith? no. but your question is did cloud and tifa hug or kiss, right? well, we didnt SEE cloud and tifa hug or kiss, but what we CAN be sure of is, thanks to the highwind scene, we KNOW plenty well cloud and tifa did not only hugging and kissing, but they did a lot more than those things that night.
"oh yeah? then why does aerith love cloud more than zack?" i dont think this is true at all, but that is aerith's business. what we are dealing with is CLOUD. not aerith. we get the idea that aerith likes him. what we dont get is cloud mirroring that feeling - as REAL cloud.
"he said he liked her eyes and smile!" BS. you could CHOOSE whether to say that or completely diss her off like whore she is (just kidding dont get offended). also, CLOUD doenst tell her this. the fake one does.
"but the date is shoooo romantic!" no its not. all the dates are one sided and aerith does all the work on the date on hers, just as much as everyone's, even tifa's. anyway none of them are canon. once again even if cloud was being romantic on the date, he wouldn't be reacting out of his OWN feelings. it would be JENOVA'S control and zach. the real cloud DOES react out of his feelings for tifa very clearly in the highwind scene, though. come again cleriths!
"but cloud agreed on the date!" yeah, and tried to DITICH her in the dead of night in her OWN HOUSE. that some dedication isnt it? and cloud was also leaving her house to go to who do you think? tifa.
"but cloud was broken when she died!" um, yeah. im sure he did. you guys sure do state the obvious a lot dont you? cloud was clearly devastated when she died. but was he the only one? no. everybody felt horrible. and when he talks about aerith, switch "she" with "he". does cloud seem gay? no. he seems perfectly fine. there is nothing romantic about this. cloud is angry and sad for his friend.
"but cloud has undying feelings for her!" you mean he DID have undying feelings. squall says that this statement came out BEFORE advent children,and in the movie, we see his "undying feeling" is nothing but guilt, paired with zack's. last i check, cloud wanted to get over his guilt to he could get to what he truly felt happy with, TIFA and the children. his FAMILY.
"but clouds mother! remember what she said?" that he should have an older girl to take care of him? sure i remember. do you also remember that she said "I think that would be good for you?" is clouds mother her son? no. so this is HER view on what girl cloud should be with. this does sound like aerith, no doubt, but do you also remember that cloud said he WASNT INTERESTED into what his mom said? in case you forgot, cloud is still obsessed with tifa at this point, who is technically not even one year younger than him. only by months.
"ok, cant you at least admit that there COULD have been a relationship with cloud and aerith?" no. because there wasnt. the idea that cloud and aerith were going to end up together was the RED HERRING of the game. cloud -the REAL cloud - was (and is) very passionately in love with tifa. it was ALWAYS tifa. like i said before, please give me anything the real cloud wanted from aerith but forgiveness, right along with zack.
"why didnt we see cloud and tifa hug or kiss then?"did cloud and aerith? no. but your question is did cloud and tifa hug or kiss, right? well, we didnt SEE cloud and tifa hug or kiss, but what we CAN be sure of is, thanks to the highwind scene, we KNOW plenty well cloud and tifa did not only hugging and kissing, but they did a lot more than those things that night.
"oh yeah? then why does aerith love cloud more than zack?" i dont think this is true at all, but that is aerith's business. what we are dealing with is CLOUD. not aerith. we get the idea that aerith likes him. what we dont get is cloud mirroring that feeling - as REAL cloud.
"he said he liked her eyes and smile!" BS. you could CHOOSE whether to say that or completely diss her off like whore she is (just kidding dont get offended). also, CLOUD doenst tell her this. the fake one does.
"but the date is shoooo romantic!" no its not. all the dates are one sided and aerith does all the work on the date on hers, just as much as everyone's, even tifa's. anyway none of them are canon. once again even if cloud was being romantic on the date, he wouldn't be reacting out of his OWN feelings. it would be JENOVA'S control and zach. the real cloud DOES react out of his feelings for tifa very clearly in the highwind scene, though. come again cleriths!
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Not to be rude or anything but is this still a big deal ? I can maybe see way back in 1997 and maybe a few years ago it being a big impact but these days people ship people with almost anything and crack ships are pretty common and there's enough Cloti and Clerith fanart and fanfiction out there to supply a fan for a while.
A pairing being canon or not canon isn't so big because even if your choosen preferred couple looses your still going to get fanfic and art that supports your side.
I don't know.
I just ship the hell out of Clerith not caring what anybody says. Does this make me a bad Clerith supporter ? I don't know. To be honest I prefer not to fight and let other shippers enjoy who they enjoy Cloud with or Aeris or Tifa. I've even seen some Aeris x Tifa fanart and Cloud getting none of them lol !
Even if somebody ships Cloti and you don't and somebody ships Clerith and you don't. Imo the game and movie and such has enough support to hold up both ship camps.
Plus it's always Cloud.
Nobody gives a shit about who Bartz loves or who Firion loves ?
No ?
I think that Cloud gets too much attention already, let alone this.
Siiiiiiiiiigh I hate this debate always been seen like a war like the winning shipping camp gets to take back a huge trophy. Say your prefer ship becomes canon. Nothing much is going to happen. Big whoop. But if you want to see Cloud's love life like a big prize to win okay I guess I can't stop you.
Lotto seems like a more bigger deal.
A pairing being canon or not canon isn't so big because even if your choosen preferred couple looses your still going to get fanfic and art that supports your side.
I don't know.
I just ship the hell out of Clerith not caring what anybody says. Does this make me a bad Clerith supporter ? I don't know. To be honest I prefer not to fight and let other shippers enjoy who they enjoy Cloud with or Aeris or Tifa. I've even seen some Aeris x Tifa fanart and Cloud getting none of them lol !
Even if somebody ships Cloti and you don't and somebody ships Clerith and you don't. Imo the game and movie and such has enough support to hold up both ship camps.
Plus it's always Cloud.
Nobody gives a shit about who Bartz loves or who Firion loves ?
No ?
I think that Cloud gets too much attention already, let alone this.
Siiiiiiiiiigh I hate this debate always been seen like a war like the winning shipping camp gets to take back a huge trophy. Say your prefer ship becomes canon. Nothing much is going to happen. Big whoop. But if you want to see Cloud's love life like a big prize to win okay I guess I can't stop you.
Lotto seems like a more bigger deal.
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
no its not a big deal at all even with me. i just havent been in this argument before and i like to debate a lot (it can gt annoying with my family most of the time) the funny thing is that i usually find out things waaaaaaaay to late and i guess im too late for this (yet again....>.>). ive only found out the love triangle debate not even 3 months ago. but no, if nobody cares, i cant force them to. *shrugs*also cloud IS in the most popular FF game so it would be natural for him to be spammed up. : P and no offence taken!
@NothingToSeeHere, I'LL GET BACK TO YOUR POST SOON 
I didn't bother reading those walls of text in full for two reasons; one, I don't have time and two, I can guess what "arguments" people claim to have (after debating this LTD for so long it gets predictable
).
However, a few things that have always proved clerith is canon are the following;
1. Cloud and Aerith were depicted as a love story in almost all the commercials, including the French and European commercials.
2. Cloud and Aerith actually dated in the game (two times).
3. Cloud said that he wanted to be there for her, he never says this to anyone else, including Tifa.
4. Cloud says that Sephiroth destroying the world doesn't matter now that Aerith is gone. Cloud says this even though his supposed true love (tifa) is still alive. Why would Cloud say the world's destruction doesn't matter anymore IF he loved Tifa rather then Aerith? It makes no sense. If he loved Tifa, he would have still cared but he didn't. He loved Aerith so much that he didn't care what the hell happened to the planet or the people on it all because AERITH was gone. That's deep.
5. Cloud says he wants to be with Aerith in HIS promised land (aka heaven).
6. Nojima said Cloud is Aerith's "KOIBITO" which is Japanese for "lover" or "girlfriend/boyfriend".
7. Nomura said Cloud has an "undying feeling" for Aerith that is opposite of their friend's platonic love for her. Only two emotions can be undying; love & hate--we know Cloud does not hate Aerith so it has to be love. What kind of love? Well, since Nomura says Cloud's feelings are DIFFERENT from their friends' platonic love that means his love is romantic.
8. It's been said more than once that Aerith lives on in Cloud's soul and is engraved in his heart.
9. Cloud says in VII that he feels and hears Aerith in his soul.
10. For fun: Cloud and Aerith were depicted as EMPEROR & EMPRESS in an official game called Brigade. Emperor and Empress are HUSBAND & WIFE.
Why the hell would Square Enix portray Cloud and Aerith as husband and wife UNLESS they were doing it because they know they're the canon couple? Makes no sense for them to make this sort of thing IF Cloud supposedly loved Tifa.
11. Cloud and Aerith were predicted to be married and were said to be perfect for each other. Nothing more to debate after that.
12. Cloud adores Aerith's laugh, smile, and eyes as shown in Dismantled. That is RO-MAN-TIC, folks!
I didn't bother reading those walls of text in full for two reasons; one, I don't have time and two, I can guess what "arguments" people claim to have (after debating this LTD for so long it gets predictable
). However, a few things that have always proved clerith is canon are the following;
1. Cloud and Aerith were depicted as a love story in almost all the commercials, including the French and European commercials.
2. Cloud and Aerith actually dated in the game (two times).
3. Cloud said that he wanted to be there for her, he never says this to anyone else, including Tifa.
4. Cloud says that Sephiroth destroying the world doesn't matter now that Aerith is gone. Cloud says this even though his supposed true love (tifa) is still alive. Why would Cloud say the world's destruction doesn't matter anymore IF he loved Tifa rather then Aerith? It makes no sense. If he loved Tifa, he would have still cared but he didn't. He loved Aerith so much that he didn't care what the hell happened to the planet or the people on it all because AERITH was gone. That's deep.
5. Cloud says he wants to be with Aerith in HIS promised land (aka heaven).
6. Nojima said Cloud is Aerith's "KOIBITO" which is Japanese for "lover" or "girlfriend/boyfriend".
7. Nomura said Cloud has an "undying feeling" for Aerith that is opposite of their friend's platonic love for her. Only two emotions can be undying; love & hate--we know Cloud does not hate Aerith so it has to be love. What kind of love? Well, since Nomura says Cloud's feelings are DIFFERENT from their friends' platonic love that means his love is romantic.
8. It's been said more than once that Aerith lives on in Cloud's soul and is engraved in his heart.
9. Cloud says in VII that he feels and hears Aerith in his soul.
10. For fun: Cloud and Aerith were depicted as EMPEROR & EMPRESS in an official game called Brigade. Emperor and Empress are HUSBAND & WIFE.
Why the hell would Square Enix portray Cloud and Aerith as husband and wife UNLESS they were doing it because they know they're the canon couple? Makes no sense for them to make this sort of thing IF Cloud supposedly loved Tifa.
11. Cloud and Aerith were predicted to be married and were said to be perfect for each other. Nothing more to debate after that.
12. Cloud adores Aerith's laugh, smile, and eyes as shown in Dismantled. That is RO-MAN-TIC, folks!
LOL...
@GreyGardens: That was a very interesting post. Some things that I had not heard of before. One of my points that you had in your post was in AC when Tifa asks, "Which is it? A memory or us?" And he IGNORES her for Aeris, turning away into his world of her, thinking of her.
I forgot to mention that even as a kid, when I first played FFVII, when Cloud met Aeris and he laughed for the first time after appearing so harsh...the music that was playing, the atmosphere they had when they were together...I felt that "this is romantic" and began to believe from there on out that Cloud and Aeris were THE romantic couple. Then Aeris...you know...and only after that did I feel things get stronger between Cloud and Tifa and felt, "Okay, Cloud and Tifa are *it* now."
As for the "family" business that people mention all the time with Tifa, Cloud, Marlene, and Denzel - Go back and play the game and you will realize that Tifa *been* considering Cloud as part of "family" when you first meet her after the bombing of the no. 1 reactor and she says, "Welcome home, Cloud!" But did he even consider himself as part of a "family" or "home" with THEM at this time? No. He could have cared less about THEM and that showed very much shortly afterward. By THEM, this so called home-"home" typically used for/to families-was/is AVALANCHE, consisting of Barret, Tifa, Marlene, Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. From what I can tell, that doesn't change later in the game or in AC. In the game, that family tightens because of the deaths of Biggs and the others, then expands when the new AVALANCHE is formed by everyone you later meet. Then it tightens again after the game because Barret, Tifa, Cloud, and Marlene somehow decide they're the ones only living with each other while everyone else goes back to their own towns. But the thing is, Barret is out looking for coal or whatever, hence why he is not with them. But if he were, he would also be included in this "family", not just it being Cloud and Tifa with the kids, just the way this "family" has always been.
You may question that before the final battle, Cloud and Tifa stayed together because they were the only family they had left. That's only because they came from the same hometown and "grew up together". I guess for Cloti you can argue that it's why they are special to each other, and that they may view each other as only their other "family" with the kids, secretly, but that depends on how you feel and think, just like almost everything else about this LTD.
I always felt like Cloud and Aeris had their own world. They're the only ones who seem to truly understand each other, and Cloud seems to be the only one who understands Aeris when she hears or is dealing with the Ancients; he...responds to it better than the others.
@NothingToSeeHere: I feel like you don't understand the importance of that scene with Cloud's mother. He just met Aeris and suddenly he has this reminiscence of a dream of his mother saying that a woman like Aeris is his type. We, the player, then awake with Cloud on a screen with Aeris in the next room, this screen slowly opening up to reveal her there just right after that kind of dream that is now reflecting reality. Sure, in the dream Cloud states his uninterest, but that's how Cloud is ALL the time when it comes to women and other subjects that are supposed to be redeemed as "what guys should be thinking about". Cloud isn't a very stereotypical person. Plus, that was when he was 16 and didn't even meet Aeris yet. Just because he wasn't interested then, doesn't mean that he can't be interested now. The importance of that scene is that it makes it clear to the player that Aeris is a, if not the, romantic interest (or PROSPECTIVE romantic interest). And that his own mother mentioned it - mothers are caring, understanding, know their children. She was Cloud's only family left. I think her saying that along with everything that happened in this scene made it pretty important.
Also, (I know this may sound like random points, but I really just want to get out all the thoughts that I ever had about this LTD) don't you guys think it's funny or noticed how similarly FF8's romance reflected the FF7 LTD? Squall is the closed-in protagonist like Cloud; Rinoa is the open, free spirited woman who in the end harbors the sorceress ability or whatever like Aeris and her inheritance of the Ancients; and Quistis having feelings for Squall but being a bit closed-in herself when it came to those feelings, also trying to open up Squall with her closed approaches, not working, like Tifa with Cloud. Who gets the guy? Rinoa. Therefore, if you think about it in the sense that FF8 was following the success of FF7 and the creators were probably mooching off a bit of FF7 in to 8, you can see that FF8 may be telling something about the FF7 LTD. I know those who don't like the idea of Cloud and Aeris are gonna find that a heck of ridiculousness, but I don't because I noticed that similarity off the bat when I played FF8. And just remember - this followed FF7's success, Squall appearing to many as a copy of Cloud in a different form, so why can't the love story in FF8 be a copy of FF7's LTD in different form, possibly revealing the true cannon, especially when it is very possible as possible as Squall being a copy of Cloud's famous loved character?
We see in FF8 that Rinoa opens up and reaches Squall the best due to her open approach compared to Quistis's indirect attempts to try and open Squall up and attract him, just the way Aeris works for Cloud but Tifa doesn't. FF8 shows who the better match for Cloud would/could have been (Aeris), while at the same time showing why Tifa isn't, almost as if doing what FF7 couldn't do in its story. And don't even get me started about how Seifer is similar to Zack - you know the deal. See what I mean? FF8 may be holding the answers. I *KNOW* that EVERYONE who has played FF8 knows what I'm talking about because I *KNOW* that they've seen, experienced, and felt the *SAME* similarities. FF8 is almost like a mirror revealing FF7 and you know it. And like I already said, FF8 followed FF7's famous release using famous things in FF7 (the things I mentioned), which is why I think it is a necessary point(s) to the LTD.
I am confused about one thing, though. I read, in support of Cloti, that somewhere in the books the characters ask Barret or something if Cloud and Tifa are "together" and he or whoever said yes. If so, doesn't that make Cloti cannon now?
I don't care who is cannon. I believe that both are suitable for Cloud. And, no, I don't think Cloud's love interest lies in other women on the planet because the creators have made it clear who the two choices are, so it is very common and makes sense why people don't look beyond Aeris and Tifa. But for me, I can see Cloud looking past Tifa. If she was alive, Aeris? Not a chance could I see Cloud doing that to her.
@GreyGardens: That was a very interesting post. Some things that I had not heard of before. One of my points that you had in your post was in AC when Tifa asks, "Which is it? A memory or us?" And he IGNORES her for Aeris, turning away into his world of her, thinking of her.
I forgot to mention that even as a kid, when I first played FFVII, when Cloud met Aeris and he laughed for the first time after appearing so harsh...the music that was playing, the atmosphere they had when they were together...I felt that "this is romantic" and began to believe from there on out that Cloud and Aeris were THE romantic couple. Then Aeris...you know...and only after that did I feel things get stronger between Cloud and Tifa and felt, "Okay, Cloud and Tifa are *it* now."
As for the "family" business that people mention all the time with Tifa, Cloud, Marlene, and Denzel - Go back and play the game and you will realize that Tifa *been* considering Cloud as part of "family" when you first meet her after the bombing of the no. 1 reactor and she says, "Welcome home, Cloud!" But did he even consider himself as part of a "family" or "home" with THEM at this time? No. He could have cared less about THEM and that showed very much shortly afterward. By THEM, this so called home-"home" typically used for/to families-was/is AVALANCHE, consisting of Barret, Tifa, Marlene, Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie. From what I can tell, that doesn't change later in the game or in AC. In the game, that family tightens because of the deaths of Biggs and the others, then expands when the new AVALANCHE is formed by everyone you later meet. Then it tightens again after the game because Barret, Tifa, Cloud, and Marlene somehow decide they're the ones only living with each other while everyone else goes back to their own towns. But the thing is, Barret is out looking for coal or whatever, hence why he is not with them. But if he were, he would also be included in this "family", not just it being Cloud and Tifa with the kids, just the way this "family" has always been.
You may question that before the final battle, Cloud and Tifa stayed together because they were the only family they had left. That's only because they came from the same hometown and "grew up together". I guess for Cloti you can argue that it's why they are special to each other, and that they may view each other as only their other "family" with the kids, secretly, but that depends on how you feel and think, just like almost everything else about this LTD.
I always felt like Cloud and Aeris had their own world. They're the only ones who seem to truly understand each other, and Cloud seems to be the only one who understands Aeris when she hears or is dealing with the Ancients; he...responds to it better than the others.
@NothingToSeeHere: I feel like you don't understand the importance of that scene with Cloud's mother. He just met Aeris and suddenly he has this reminiscence of a dream of his mother saying that a woman like Aeris is his type. We, the player, then awake with Cloud on a screen with Aeris in the next room, this screen slowly opening up to reveal her there just right after that kind of dream that is now reflecting reality. Sure, in the dream Cloud states his uninterest, but that's how Cloud is ALL the time when it comes to women and other subjects that are supposed to be redeemed as "what guys should be thinking about". Cloud isn't a very stereotypical person. Plus, that was when he was 16 and didn't even meet Aeris yet. Just because he wasn't interested then, doesn't mean that he can't be interested now. The importance of that scene is that it makes it clear to the player that Aeris is a, if not the, romantic interest (or PROSPECTIVE romantic interest). And that his own mother mentioned it - mothers are caring, understanding, know their children. She was Cloud's only family left. I think her saying that along with everything that happened in this scene made it pretty important.
Also, (I know this may sound like random points, but I really just want to get out all the thoughts that I ever had about this LTD) don't you guys think it's funny or noticed how similarly FF8's romance reflected the FF7 LTD? Squall is the closed-in protagonist like Cloud; Rinoa is the open, free spirited woman who in the end harbors the sorceress ability or whatever like Aeris and her inheritance of the Ancients; and Quistis having feelings for Squall but being a bit closed-in herself when it came to those feelings, also trying to open up Squall with her closed approaches, not working, like Tifa with Cloud. Who gets the guy? Rinoa. Therefore, if you think about it in the sense that FF8 was following the success of FF7 and the creators were probably mooching off a bit of FF7 in to 8, you can see that FF8 may be telling something about the FF7 LTD. I know those who don't like the idea of Cloud and Aeris are gonna find that a heck of ridiculousness, but I don't because I noticed that similarity off the bat when I played FF8. And just remember - this followed FF7's success, Squall appearing to many as a copy of Cloud in a different form, so why can't the love story in FF8 be a copy of FF7's LTD in different form, possibly revealing the true cannon, especially when it is very possible as possible as Squall being a copy of Cloud's famous loved character?
We see in FF8 that Rinoa opens up and reaches Squall the best due to her open approach compared to Quistis's indirect attempts to try and open Squall up and attract him, just the way Aeris works for Cloud but Tifa doesn't. FF8 shows who the better match for Cloud would/could have been (Aeris), while at the same time showing why Tifa isn't, almost as if doing what FF7 couldn't do in its story. And don't even get me started about how Seifer is similar to Zack - you know the deal. See what I mean? FF8 may be holding the answers. I *KNOW* that EVERYONE who has played FF8 knows what I'm talking about because I *KNOW* that they've seen, experienced, and felt the *SAME* similarities. FF8 is almost like a mirror revealing FF7 and you know it. And like I already said, FF8 followed FF7's famous release using famous things in FF7 (the things I mentioned), which is why I think it is a necessary point(s) to the LTD.
I am confused about one thing, though. I read, in support of Cloti, that somewhere in the books the characters ask Barret or something if Cloud and Tifa are "together" and he or whoever said yes. If so, doesn't that make Cloti cannon now?
I don't care who is cannon. I believe that both are suitable for Cloud. And, no, I don't think Cloud's love interest lies in other women on the planet because the creators have made it clear who the two choices are, so it is very common and makes sense why people don't look beyond Aeris and Tifa. But for me, I can see Cloud looking past Tifa. If she was alive, Aeris? Not a chance could I see Cloud doing that to her.
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
@NothingToSeeHere, I'LL GET BACK TO YOUR POST SOON
I didn't bother reading those walls of text in full for two reasons; one, I don't have time and two, I can guess what "arguments" people claim to have (after debating this LTD for so long it gets predictable
However, a few things that have always proved clerith is canon are the following;
1. Cloud and Aerith were depicted as a love story in almost all the commercials, including the French and European commercials.
2. Cloud and Aerith actually dated in the game (two times).
3. Cloud said that he wanted to be there for her, he never says this to anyone else, including Tifa.
4. Cloud says that Sephiroth destroying the world doesn't matter now that Aerith is gone. Cloud says this even though his supposed true love (tifa) is still alive. Why would Cloud say the world's destruction doesn't matter anymore IF he loved Tifa rather then Aerith? It makes no sense. If he loved Tifa, he would have still cared but he didn't. He loved Aerith so much that he didn't care what the hell happened to the planet or the people on it all because AERITH was gone. That's deep.
5. Cloud says he wants to be with Aerith in HIS promised land (aka heaven).
6. Nojima said Cloud is Aerith's "KOIBITO" which is Japanese for "lover" or "girlfriend/boyfriend".
7. Nomura said Cloud has an "undying feeling" for Aerith that is opposite of their friend's platonic love for her. Only two emotions can be undying; love & hate--we know Cloud does not hate Aerith so it has to be love. What kind of love? Well, since Nomura says Cloud's feelings are DIFFERENT from their friends' platonic love that means his love is romantic.
8. It's been said more than once that Aerith lives on in Cloud's soul and is engraved in his heart.
9. Cloud says in VII that he feels and hears Aerith in his soul.
10. For fun: Cloud and Aerith were depicted as EMPEROR & EMPRESS in an official game called Brigade. Emperor and Empress are HUSBAND & WIFE.
Why the hell would Square Enix portray Cloud and Aerith as husband and wife UNLESS they were doing it because they know they're the canon couple? Makes no sense for them to make this sort of thing IF Cloud supposedly loved Tifa.
11. Cloud and Aerith were predicted to be married and were said to be perfect for each other. Nothing more to debate after that.
12. Cloud adores Aerith's laugh, smile, and eyes as shown in Dismantled. That is RO-MAN-TIC, folks!
well if you hate big posts, you are really going to hate this one : D
you are looking awwwwwfuly like some girl i know in deviantart. either you are her or she is stalking you (like cloud did because he loved tifa) for your proof.
1. and europe sure has the same canonity as S/E right? im sure if they said "cloud and tifa are the true love" and S/E said "no its not! clerith is!" you'd all of a sudden want to listen to japan wouldnt you? fail.
2. no they did not. the dates arent canon. S/E said so. its purely based off of game mechanics. even TIFA'S date isnt canon. and if they did, guess what? this means that aerith is still alive, and this means that cloud isnt the real cloud because hes the real cloud when aerith is DEAD. the real cloud finds out he has loved tifa ever since he was 8yrs old and has never stopped. he did practically everything for her-even unconsciously as fake cloud. his love was that powerful, true, and faithful. cloud deafeated SEPHIROTH (the first time), the strongest guy in all of the village, because he thought sephy killed tifa.
3. BS. he was still fake cloud since aerith is alive. the real cloud loves tifa. ZACK wants to be there for aerith, because HE loves her romantically. not cloud. do you know what he says to tifa right before they get it on under the highwind? "ill still keep the promise." this is when he is REAL cloud, when they found out the memories he already had. cloud had already fulfilled the promise three times- DOUBLE the amount of what tifa asked him. he fulfilled the promise in CC when he sacrificed his life for her by fighting a monster. when tifa was about to pull off his helmet he begged her not to, because of his shame. he fulfilled the promise a second time when he saw tifa on the floor and slashed sephiroth. then he fulfilled it AGAIN by using his love for her to kill sephiroth. this is also when cloud is real cloud. why the heck would cloud talk about keeping the promise if he fulfilled it well over the times tifa asked him to? the only way we have to say is that he loves her too much to stop the promise. the only promise he made to aerith was to be her bodyguard: AS FAKE CLOUD. yea, some romantic dedication right?
4. again, fail. cloud isnt the real cloud when he says this. thats not deep at all LOL! but you know whats truly deep? when cloud and tifa fall in the lifestream and he yells for her from the love in his heart, and the instinct of keeping the promise so he could keep her safe in his mind. tifa called too. they both did it at the same time, but didnt hear each other actually calling from their mouth-they just heard each other's names being called. THATS deep. very deep. do you need to play the game again or are you 12 or something so you dont understand FFVII? also, cloud is the REAL CLOUD when he calls for her and tifa calls for him. did he call "aerith" unconsciously and instinctively from his heart?and even then was it real cloud? i think not.
5. his promised land was to meet her again: WITH ZACK. did you even WATCH AC/CC? stop putting off zack just to have your silly little clerith. you might want to read this if you love S/E so much.
The place where he awakens--- That is Cloud's Promised Land. As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet. When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma-- his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live. He realizes that he was able to forgive himself. And when he turns around--- "she" is starting to leave. Together with the friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness... And so they too go back to where they belong. Back to the current of life flowing around the planet---.
who ELSE would be that second voice if it wasnt zack? cloud loves aerith, just not the way he does tifa (like displaying his love with her under the highwind and starting a family).
6. no he didnt. he never said this. the maiden of the planet is FAN-MADE but just published under S/E's name. it isnt even canon because if you love aerith so much you would know her book OR the word itself isnt even noted in her entire official profile. it does say she was intimate -VERY intimate in fact- with zack. furthermore her book is on what SHE thinks of cloud. cloud has never been said to give back her feelings as real cloud. its like sephy's book. it was said that he would eventually take over the world and he would rule over everything. did he? no. but did you know that nomura says TIFA is clouds lover by OFFICIAL S/E statements?
"There are many dimensions to Tifa’s character. She’s like a mother, a koibito, and a close ally in battle."
if you can find any other guy tifa loves ill eat a cow. he means cloud just as much as denzel and marlene when it comes to mother, and barret,yuffie,cid,and cait sith as friends. and did you also know in tifa's official profile it notes HER book? making her book canon and not aerith's since it wasnt noted at all. the relationship of how closely romantic aerith was with ZACK came up, though.
also read this on the "koibito" ideal. www.killthemongoose.com/koibit…
7. wrong. his undying feeling is love of his friend. he called her "mother" in AC and CC remember? who would want to get laid with their mother? unless you are saying cloud loves incest now. also:
"From Aerith's For Cloud, and the world once again faced with danger, she reaches out and offers her aid. In that sense she is like a mother watching over the entire planet, and it gives the feeling that she lives in every part of the world."
she feels motherly too. and wouldnt you think clouds feelings for aerith WOULD be different since after HE MET HER FIRST AND HE FEELS LIKE HE LET HER DIE? clouds friends dont hold that feeling. only cloud does,therefore making it different. although he healed, he still holds her in his heart as much as zack is. the ultimania said aerith AND zack are dear to him. BOTH of them. he feels the same good ol' platonic love for both of them. cloud already has displayed aerith is like his mother/deep friend. there is nothing romantically "different" with cloud and aerith. cloud isnt in love with aerith.
And speaking of balance, one really has to ask: If there were no Tifa, would there still be enough evidence post-FFVII to suggest that Cloud is in love with Aerith? He loves her, sure, but would he otherwise seem romantically interested?
...........
On the other hand, were there no Aerith, I don’t think anyone would question what’s established by the Highwind scene, the CoT and CoB dialogue, and the family structure with Tifa.
cloud is living with tifa because he LOVES HER. tifa is doing the same. clouds "undying feelings"-however different- is NOT romantic for aerith. we can be sure of that. try again XD
8. do you also know what is in clouds memories (or heart)? his promise. to tifa. that he would save her. that he fulfilled 2 times over in the first place.
A Promise to Tifa, Etched in his Memory.
When Cloud left the village dreaming of being a SOLDIER, he swore to Tifa that he would come running to her rescue if she was in trouble. While it was Tifa who strong-armed him into making the promise, it seems that the idea that he must keep this vow was forever in Cloud’s mind. In BC he is obsessive about protecting people, and if he runs out of strength part way though he will mention the “promise.”
[BC] If he runs out of strength part way through the story, he will say regretfully that he “couldn’t come through on my promise to her.” come again?
9. he said that about sephy too. so he loves him romantically? NOW you not only say cloud loves incest, he is also gay. way to go. *facepalm*. if cloud said "i love eating ice cream with aerith because the cream gets all on her face and its so funny!" you cleriths would twist it and make it romantic.
10. and what in the WORLD does that prove? its not in the S/E compilation and not even in KINGDOM HEARTS so its not canon. just shut up the BS inside your uncanon box already.
11. and after that he wanted to sleep with tifa on the last night on the planet. seems like cloud is a bit of a cheater right? no they werent. if the marriage was "predicted" it WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. aerith died. SHE WAS NOT GOING TO GET MARRIED WITH CLOUD. are you that blind to see that you cant marry a dead woman? cloud was zack cloud at this point. cait sith either lied so he wouldnt spread bad news, was wrong, or he predicted the marriage of aerith and ZACK since aerth died soon after to join him in the lifestream (because cloud was zack at the moment).
12. and that proves.....>.> yea, so he likes her smile. proof please? also do you know what cloud also adores too, tifa's lips. you know, when in the highwind scene he was kissing them all night and tifa was more than glad to return his. i havent forgotten that you know, but looks like you have.
lets look: cloud liking aerith's smile, and cloud finally making love to tifa to express his feelings for her from the time he made the promise (maybe even earlier)on the last night in Gaia. cloud having undying feelings for aerith or cloud making a happy family with tifa. cloud having aerith in his heart or his promise to tifa that he believes he must keep and fulfilled it DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF TIMES TIFA ASKED HIM TO. asking aerith for forgiveness or placing tifa as an IMPORTANT WOMAN TO HIM (this wasnt said at all about aerith) and in his family. which one is more "RO-MAN-TIC folks"? moreover aerith is only talked about TWICE in then ENTIRE profile of cloud. wouldnt you think if clerth was real she would appear more than that? tifa is talked about over 4 times though. ; )
and what can you say about this?
From Cloud's profile. The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…
..........
With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward. From Tifa's profile She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding.
"Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged.”- pg. 70 Reunion Files
Cid:"Good for you. Whole world's clappin' you on the back. So Cloud's with Tifa?"
"Yeah. Tifa opened a bar, just like the old days. Cloud was helpin' out, but it sounds like he's got his own business keepin' him tied up now. A delivery service."
"Cloud? Run a business?"
"You can bet it's Tifa kickin' his ass into shape."
"I see. In the end, it's the women wear the pants." -Case of Barret
Crisis Core Ultimania Tifa's profile In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.
I want to see Cloud — Marlene’s honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge.
"First off, there's the premise that things won't go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don't really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family (laughs). After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith, but I think there is a great burden from Aerith."
why in the world would he talk about love,marriage,and family if cloud and tifa werent in that kind of relationship? also he says things "COULD have been well with aerith" but that wasnt even the point. he wasnt even thinking about clerith when he wrote he book. he decided cloud and tifa. if they have "things dont go well" and he said it "MIGHT be the same", there is no guarantee that cloud and tifa will forever have problems and there is no guarantee they will live a perfect happily ever after. ALL relationships go through problems, not just this kind. in DoC there isnt anything that looks like they are struggling. they are doing just fine.
i also suggest you look at this. thelifestream.net/lifestream-p… it also gives proof on what S/E says.
believe it or not, i have even MORE proof. PAGES of it. this is a true canon picture of the canon couple.
thelifestream.net/lifestream-p…
"Cloud, you’re smiling.”
"I am?”
"Yeah.”
“It all starts now. A new…” Cloud looked for the right words. “A new life.” “I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things… happened.”
“That’s right…”
“But when I think about how many times I’ve thought about how I was going to start a new life, it’s funny.”
“Why?”
"Because I’ve always failed everything.”
"That’s not funny.”
“After this … I think I’ll be okay.”
Cloud was silent for a long time before he spoke again. “Because I have you this time.”
“You’ve always had me.”
“What I mean is kind of different,” Cloud answered with another smile.
it was also said that clouds mother suggested an older girl for him. it says so in tifa's profile that she was already mature for her age so its like her being older. and even if im wrong CLOUDS mother told him what girl he should have. cloud already showed us what girl he wanted the whole time thanks to the highwind scene. most of your points are when cloud is fake cloud so basically you are saying cloud has always loved tifa ever since he was young when he is real cloud. please note: im not trying to change your opinion: im merely stating what S/E says. i prefer lots of couples that arent canon, but i dont try to find reason to make it true. its cloudxtifa, the canon couple. sorry :/
I feel like this is going where what I originally posted: Aeris WAS cannon, but then Sephiroth killed her. Tifa was left and therefore got closer to Cloud, especially since she held the answers to his past. I've always supported Cloud and Aeris, but when she passed away, I found myself, of course, pining for Cloud and Tifa.
The last time I played FF7, I did notice how nothing goes on between Cloud and Aeris throughout the whole game until Cosmo Canyon. They don't really interact, but neither do Cloud and Tifa until the end. Cloud is ambiguous in the game; it really is up to the player to choose.
But I will say that, in support of Cloud and Aeris, the reason why I believe so many people cried when Aeris died is because they saw and believed in the potential romance between Cloud and Aeris. I remember thinking in that moment, back when I first played FF7, "Oh, no! Now Cloud and Aeris won't get together! This is so sad!" I think this is what other people thought, too, inside of themselves, and that's why they cried, even people who usually wouldn't, lol. I feel that romance was the reason why her death was so tragic.
And that whole part when Cloud asked, "What about US? What are WE supposed to do?" I always thought it meant he was asking Aeris what is going to happen between the two of them now, now that she is gone, because now nothing can happen between them. Correct me if I'm wrong - I'm actually asking what he meant by that. That whole speech, actually, really was very romantic, because Cloud really did say that everything that they had been fighting for up to that point didn't matter anymore because Aeris is now gone.
But in support of Cloud and Tifa...they did get closer after retracing and putting back together Cloud's real past. That's why I started to feel a more romantic connection between them. Then in AC, they live together...like I previously said before, maybe they are cannon now with a difficult relationship, but SE is just making it ambiguous again. But then why is it that people claim that in DC (or whatever it's called, that game with Vincent), he was still not going home to Tifa? If it's not Aeris, why does he drive through flower fields in his time not going home to Tifa?
I'm confused because there is evidence for both. I just want it to be Aeris, lol, but like I said before, I am good if it's Tifa, too. I support both.
The last time I played FF7, I did notice how nothing goes on between Cloud and Aeris throughout the whole game until Cosmo Canyon. They don't really interact, but neither do Cloud and Tifa until the end. Cloud is ambiguous in the game; it really is up to the player to choose.
But I will say that, in support of Cloud and Aeris, the reason why I believe so many people cried when Aeris died is because they saw and believed in the potential romance between Cloud and Aeris. I remember thinking in that moment, back when I first played FF7, "Oh, no! Now Cloud and Aeris won't get together! This is so sad!" I think this is what other people thought, too, inside of themselves, and that's why they cried, even people who usually wouldn't, lol. I feel that romance was the reason why her death was so tragic.
And that whole part when Cloud asked, "What about US? What are WE supposed to do?" I always thought it meant he was asking Aeris what is going to happen between the two of them now, now that she is gone, because now nothing can happen between them. Correct me if I'm wrong - I'm actually asking what he meant by that. That whole speech, actually, really was very romantic, because Cloud really did say that everything that they had been fighting for up to that point didn't matter anymore because Aeris is now gone.
But in support of Cloud and Tifa...they did get closer after retracing and putting back together Cloud's real past. That's why I started to feel a more romantic connection between them. Then in AC, they live together...like I previously said before, maybe they are cannon now with a difficult relationship, but SE is just making it ambiguous again. But then why is it that people claim that in DC (or whatever it's called, that game with Vincent), he was still not going home to Tifa? If it's not Aeris, why does he drive through flower fields in his time not going home to Tifa?
I'm confused because there is evidence for both. I just want it to be Aeris, lol, but like I said before, I am good if it's Tifa, too. I support both.
NothingToSeeHere
ShinRa Guard
(to your first reply)
no offense, but you dont seem notice on how important it is: for cloti.
you dont seem to understand exactly just how cloud was crazy for this girl. thats right: he was completely obsessed with her. no way in gaia can he follow this girl around even since EIGHT YEARS OLD and had such a strong feeling for her that even when she fell and didnt even know HE WAS THERE he felt like she blamed him,then he heard of sephy, and then tried to impress her and was inclined to believe when he swore to save her he felt he HAD to and wouldnt let go of it. by this time he was 14, making his strong love for her 6 whole years with no cares about any other girl. then when he came back to the village. he STILL loved her, making it 8 years. he hadnt seen her in two years but yet his feeling wasnt weakened-he went to shin-ra in the first place and the reason why he went to the village was because of that- in fact his feelings were stronger, so much he didnt even want to show his face to her, and only did when she wasnt even CONSCIOUS of him. then the real cloud with his real feelings was buried for five years, possibly making his love for her even more powerful since he left her previously and felt stronger feelings towards her. when he reaches 21 (the dormant cloud had loved her for 13 years now) cloud all of a sudden falls for aerith? this makes zilcho sense. he overcame his over decade long crush in just a couple of months???? i mean really?
mrs strife was wrong on her views on what woman is right for cloud. although motherly - there is nothing wrong with this - cloud wasnt in love with that kind of woman. he never was. at least how she literally meant it. when mrs strife said "older" she didnt literally mean "older" and thats it. she meant "older" as in mature,dependable and responsible. guess what? the woman cloud loved (and still does) HAS the qualities. she makes up for her 1 year age difference with maturity. S/E says tifa is mature for her age. but that wasnt what clouds mother meant of course. she meant a literal older girl, and cloud didnt want that. he wanted tifa (and still does). and yes, when his mother suggested that right after aerith appeared, we were supposed to think he liked aerith. we didnt know cloud was zloud at the moment so yes it did look like clerith, im not denying this. but this was part of the red herring of the game. it was clerith (when it really was zerith) until tifa reveals (victoriously i might add) that cloud loved her at 8yrs old and never stopped. does that help you understand? : D
and yes, about your question. it came from the Case of Barret.
Cid:"Good for you. Whole world's clappin' you on the back. So Cloud's with Tifa?"
"Yeah. Tifa opened a bar, just like the old days. Cloud was helpin' out, but it sounds like he's got his own business keepin' him tied up now. A delivery service."
"Cloud? Run a business?"
"You can bet it's Tifa kickin' his ass into shape."
"I see. In the end, it's the women wear the pants." -Case of Barret
(i just noticed this.) i would also like to note that CID brought up the subject in the first place ("So Cloud's with Tifa?"). why would he even bring that up if it wasnt expected? why would he even ask such a question if cloud and tifa didnt do anything to make him think so? thus the highwind scene comes up again. seems like cid saw something more than he should have when he happened to look down his ship. thus even confirming even MORE that cloud and tifa did something entirely very intimate.
and its not that i blame them. it IS the last day on the planet (supposedly) and they both love each other.
.........................................
(to your second reply)
ARRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!! >.< no no no no no! this is not so! (hey that rhymed) i HATE the default mentality. SO. MUCH.
1. if this were true, that would made cloud a skirt chaser. just because aerith died, he had to end up with tifa? so now cloud just choses girls that are at his convenience?
this doesnt seem like cloud: fake or not.
2. there is also the suggestion of cloud healing over aerith and "realized" tifa was there or something. no, cloud didnt heal over aerith anymore than he did zack. this is proven in AC when he cant forgive himself over both of them. so no,cloud didnt heal over aerith and it would be ridiculous for him to heal THAT FAST and move onto tifa. he and aerith we close friends, and the relationship was so deep even as real cloud he still loved her.
3. it was ALWAYS tifa. that was the point of the game. it was looking clerith was going to win out but according to clouds subconscious it was tifa the whole time. even unconsciously as fake cloud he realized he did things for her. there was never a time when real cloud moved to aerith romantically. as a matter of fact someone one the team said the reason why cleriths stretch out the highwind scene is because of aerith because they still believe in the red herring of clerith (when its actually zerith). cloud doesnt, didnt and wont love aerith romantically. this isnt meant to be mean.
And speaking of balance, one really has to ask: If there were no Tifa, would there still be enough evidence post-FFVII to suggest that Cloud is in love with Aerith? He loves her, sure, but would he otherwise seem romantically interested?
.............
On the other hand, were there no Aerith, I don’t think anyone would question what’s established by the Highwind scene, the CoT and CoB dialogue, and the family structure with Tifa.
also i dont think cloud said anything romantic to aerith when she died. but thats my opinion. ok, lets say it was romantic. this is as the fake cloud anyway. so this doesnt count for real cloud.
i honestly dont see why people dont see the blatant obviousness of cloti. ESPECIALLY the highwind scene. the original scene was very, VERY blatant. maybe the should have stuck with it. lol as a matter of fact S/E SAID that lol! i forgot!
and thats all i want you to say (as well as all cleriths). "i prefer clerith, but i know cloti is canon." personally cloti is perfect but i cant change your opinion. i just aim to change the views of "facts".
( i have no idea where you are Six, but thanks for liking my comments. they really are true.)
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Hmm...you make sense...
But I don't think Cloud faked Aeris's "death speech", romantic or not.
And as for Cloud only moving onto Tifa because Aeris had passed away - that's not what I meant. Obviously, Cloud isn't like that and that's not what happened. Yes, it seemed that with Aeris in the picture, it was going to be Aeris romantically, but once she moved out of the picture, the opportunities for Tifa arrived. What were those opportunities? The fact that she held the key to Cloud's past and, therefore, got to grow closer to him. I wasn't saying that Cloud was only drawn to Tifa because he saw that Aeris was gone and decided to go to the next girl for that reason.
As for his buried feelings for Tifa...I would say that when I first played FF7, I noticed what you said. It was like once they revealed Cloud's true past, his feelings for Tifa came out. But there is the argument that Cloud was never "fake Cloud"; that he was always Cloud, just that he didn't remember, or blocked out, what really happened. What is the truth?
Here is my new answer to the LTD: AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!
But I don't think Cloud faked Aeris's "death speech", romantic or not.
And as for Cloud only moving onto Tifa because Aeris had passed away - that's not what I meant. Obviously, Cloud isn't like that and that's not what happened. Yes, it seemed that with Aeris in the picture, it was going to be Aeris romantically, but once she moved out of the picture, the opportunities for Tifa arrived. What were those opportunities? The fact that she held the key to Cloud's past and, therefore, got to grow closer to him. I wasn't saying that Cloud was only drawn to Tifa because he saw that Aeris was gone and decided to go to the next girl for that reason.
As for his buried feelings for Tifa...I would say that when I first played FF7, I noticed what you said. It was like once they revealed Cloud's true past, his feelings for Tifa came out. But there is the argument that Cloud was never "fake Cloud"; that he was always Cloud, just that he didn't remember, or blocked out, what really happened. What is the truth?
Here is my new answer to the LTD: AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!
Okay, first off--PLEASE separate your paragraphs better. Please, it's very hard to follow when there are giant walls of text like that. No offense. Also, I was trying NOT to post in here because I'm trying this thing where I don't completely tear down people's ships... but what you're saying is SO far from the truth I HAVE to reply. As mama clerith, I owe it to my clerith squad across the internet.
Second, you seem to be making Cloud out as if he's some creepy stalker when that wasn't the case. I mean, just read over what you say here;
He was not "obsessed" with her. He had a dim crush on her just like many of the other boys in their hometown. Cloud's crush on Tifa was generic, it was the same as all the other boys. She was the cliche popular girl in town, literally every single boy was crushing on her and became infatuated by her.
In FFVII Ultimania Tifa even admits that she went on dates with all the boys in town, read for yourself:
TIFA'S DIARY: "I wonder if Wel, Dan, Meiday, and the other boys who left the village are doing alright?
All the boys left for the city. They all called me out to the water tower. They all said the same things."
Notice how they all called her out to the well, making Cloud's invitation to the well generic and just the same as the other boys. Also notice how Tifa shows concern for those boys. This proves that Cloud's canon DIM and immature crush wasn't something as special as you believe it to be. His feelings for her were just the same as the other boys.
Thirdly, the creators of the game and story have said Cloud's crush on Tifa was DIM, as in weak. They've recently also said that his crush was "fleeting" and "immature"--neither of those adjectives define everlasting love nor are they words you'd use if you want to convey lasting feelings.
QUOTE 1: The promise with a childhood friend: Before leaving Nibelheim, Cloud said that “I’ll be a SOLDIER” to a village girl, Tifa, WHOM HE DIMLY FELL IN LOVE WITH, and made a promise to protect her. Such a pompous declaration turns out to be false - considering this, Cloud conceals his identity and coldly sweats under his helmet when he confronts his hometown.
******
QUOTE 2: “The True Wish Revealed: When Cloud was very young, he had no friends from others around his age, so he tried to believe himself special, he was an alienated child. Such as, when regarding him Tifa was important—the FLEETING AND ALSO IMMATURE LOVE was divulged in the spirit world.”— FF7 25th AU
As I said above, these two quotes clearly tell us the degree of Cloud's crush on Tifa, it's been described as fleeting, immature, and DIM--so you're interpretation of Cloud's crush on Tifa is pointless and holds no substantial importance in this debate because Nomura has already told us that his crush was childish, dim, and fleeting.
A fleeting and immature crush is not lasting—it is exactly as it said it is, fleeting; as in ceasing to exist. So the childhood crush that he used to have for Tifa has officially died out, meaning his dim feelings for her stopped.
If he continued to “love” her in the present time, then his love for her in present day would be considered a continuation of his childhood crush, meaning his crush would have had to never ended in order for love to develop in the future. If love did develop in the future then his crush would have just grown into love, meaning his previous feelings would still be involved in present day feelings and they would have just grown into something more…but not die out, though.
If Cloud’s crush ended (which this quote proves), then love couldn’t have developed from Cloud>Tifa in the future. The crush would be the basis, or foundation, of his could-be-future-love for her… And because he held that dim crush in the past that means if he were to continue on into the future loving her then his future love would be a growth stemming from his previous crush, which would involve his crush still existing...
However, as this official quote clearly points out, Cloud’s crush—which is the entire foundation of any possible future feelings he could have for her—has ceased to exist, that means he doesn’t carry romantic feelings for her in present day. Again, if he did, his crush wouldn’t be described as “fleeting” and “immature”, it would be a continuation.
All of this proves that his dim, fleeting, and immature crush that you claim is so important, actually isn't as important or long-lasting as you think it is.
So, yes it is completely plausible and possible that Cloud moved on from his DIM, IMMATURE, and FLEETING crush for Tifa and developed romantic interest in Aerith. I'm sorry you think this makes no sense but the creators are the ones who said Cloud's crush was dim and fleeting (as in, it disappeared after so long) and it was the creators who made Cloud willingly go on TWO dates with Aerith when Tifa's throwing herself at him.
Cloud's crush ENDED, Nomura said Cloud's crush was DIM, IMMATURE, AND FLEETING--stop saying he was still interested in her. The creators have said otherwise.
I think you need to replay the game. Cloud was NOT Zack. Cloud did not have Zack's feelings, all Cloud had was Zack's OCCUPATIONAL legacy and a few memories. IF Cloud took on Zack's feelings and life like you claim, Cloud would have called himself ZACK FAIR and he would have instantly known who Aerith was and resumed dating her as if he was Zack, but instead neither happened.
IF Cloud was "Zack" during the time he knew Aerith, the Jenova cells in Cloud would have mimicked Aerith's memories and Cloud would have called himself Zack Fair and acted as if he and Aerith had been together already, Cloud WOULD HAVE resumed Zack's feelings and romantic stand-point.
Did you see Cloud calling himself Zack Fair?
Did you see Cloud recalling memories only Zack and Aerith would know?
Did you see Aerith acting as if Cloud was Zack?
Did you see Cloud or Aerith acting as if they knew each other?
Did you see Cloud or Aerith recalling any of Zack and Aerith's previous romantic interactions?
Cloud took Zack's legacy and a few traits of his, but that's where it ends. And what he did mimic from Zack was possible only from CLOUD'S memory, not anyone else. So no, Cloud did not start showing interest in Aerith because he was "Zack"--he was not Zack and never was. The game CLEARLY proves this.
Victoriously? Did you just use that word on a woman that lied to Cloud about his past all so she could have a little longer to think about what she wanted to do (as if she even had to think about such a thing, she should have told him immediately)? Tifa was keeping Cloud's past from him, for whatever reason, she did what she OWED him, what anyone would owe ANYONE. You're glorifying this and it's... it's really strange. :/
I just imagined Cid watching Cloud turn Tifa down.... awkward.
Nomura already said that he has NO idea whether or not Cloud and Tifa got together at the end of VII or during AC.
QUOTE 3: Nomura: I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don't have any clue. ~Nomura, Dorimaga interview, published at Flaregamer
So even if you think that quote has any significance it's nullified by Nomura's comment here. If the creator doesn't know if they're together, then neither to the characters. Besides that, the HAHW scene isn't a canon outcome. It's optional. So even IF it was romantic, it's an optional scene that isn't the canon outcome.
Cloud felt guilt for Zack, yes that is true--but his guilt for Aerith was IMMENSE and FAR FAR GREATER. Let's just recap some things, shall we.
VII
1) Cloud never speaks of ANY guilt or emotions about Zack after learning of him.
2) Cloud says that the world being destroyed doesn't matter all because AERITH was gone now.
3) Cloud says that he thinks about Aerith A LOT, if he felt the same guilt for Zack why isn't he thinking about him a lot as well?
4) Cloud says that above everything else he is fighting to unfreeze Aerith's smile (said in Dismantled)
CONCLUSION IN VII: Cloud never speaks of Zack but ALWAYS speaks of Aerith, Cloud shows guilt only for Aerith during VII--meaning: he did not put his guilt for them on the same level.
AC:
1) Cloud is able to go to Zack's grave very easily.
2) However, Nomura said Cloud AVOIDS the forgotten city because the pain Cloud feels is too immense.
3) Cloud only seeks AERITH'S forgiveness, not Zack's. Automatically proving which of the guilt Cloud cares for more.
4) Nomura said only AERITH can lift the immense sadness and pain from Cloud, if Zack's death weighed on him just as much then it would have taken BOTH of their "forgiveness" to lift that sadness.
5) Cloud said that he wanted AERITH'S forgiveness more than anything.
6) Cloud was willing to give up on his promise to Zack and die because of how depressed and sad he was about Aerith's death.
CONCLUSION IN AC: While Cloud can visit Zack's grave, he simply cannot bare to revisit the place where he and Aerith parted because it overwhelms him with sadness and emotion--Nomura said the forgotten capital was the one place Cloud avoided simply because of the pain and sadness he felt when there. It's been stated that only Aerith's forgiveness can heal Cloud's pain (not Zack's) and it was stated by Cloud himself that he wanted AERITH'S forgiveness more than anything, that means even over forgiveness from Zack. The fact that Cloud was willing to give up on his promise to Zack proves that his guilt for Aerith was far more important.
All of this proves that Cloud's "guilt" for Zack was not anywhere near as large or immense as his guilt and sadness for Aerith was.
Cloud's crush ENDED before VII even began, Nomura said Cloud's crush was DIM, IMMATURE, AND FLEETING--please stop saying he was still interested in her when I've provided quotes proving that the creators have said otherwise.
Is that because you say so? It's coming off like it is.
Cloud accepted TWO dates from Aerith, TWO--one in which ended "magically" after Aerith confessed her feelings to him. And YES the Clerith date IS canon.
I can prove the Clerith date is canon with one quote... are you ready?
QUOTE 4: Aerith : Oh, Cloud… I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud… --- DISMANTLED
Take notice to the very very very important detail in that sentence. What is it that jumps out at you? What wins the utmost attention? If it’s not “I enjoyed our date at Gold Saucer” than you probably just can’t believe something as inarguable as this could exist. It’s like Square Enix really really did not want anyone to have any ounce of confusion about which date is canon, and boy! did this quote hammer home which girl Cloud went on the magical date with in the city of desire.
Keep in mind this is a non-optional scene that includes Aerith recalling her and Cloud’s date in the Gold Saucer and it definitely canonizes the Clerith date, just like AC canonizes Yuffie and Vincent's existence.
So yes, the clerith date IS canon. And this proves that Cloud DID develop romantic interest in Aerith.
You can read my full essay here...
Another thing that proves Cloud developed feelings for Aerith is the fact that Cloud’s Romantic Interest In Aerith Is Spoken Of In Marlene’s 25thAU Pages!
The original scene which shows Cloud’s romantic interest in AERITH is the following;
Marlene: ”Guess what? Guess what? Aerith was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!”
Choices that you can make Cloud reply with: ”I don’t know” OR "Let’s hope so" If you choose “Let’s hope so" this happens;
And now thanks to Furybrand of the Clerith forums for first mentioning this to us and a thanks to TLS for the translation, here is the significant quote that proves Cloud says "let's hope so" about Aerith liking him;
"Marlene is a sharp girl
"Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.”
マリンはおませんな女の子
まだ4歳なのに、マリンはおしゃまで女心に敏感。エアリスがクラウドに好意を持っていることを見抜いて彼に報告し、「ティファには内緒にしておく」と一人前に気をまわすひ と幕も。
IMAGE PROVIDED BY TLS * SOURCE
One can say that this canonizes that Cloud tells Marlene that he hopes Aerith likes him— this shows IMMENSE significance because it shows that CLOUD wants Aerith to like him, which shows his romantic interest in Aerith. This page canonizes this outcome not simply because it merely mentions it, but it says this particular scene is needed to show Marlene's growth as a character.
And real quickly, I want to tell you that in DISMANTLED Cloud says Aerith's smile is a good purchase, he says she has impressive eyes, and he misses her laugh and smile and compares her smile to a flower---all of this clearly indicate romantic interest. Not to mention the only person he says he wants to be there for is AERITH.
Kitase: "The event on the airship the night before the final battle was done by Katou as well, wasn't it."
Nojima: "Oh, the bit with that risqué/suggestive dialogue? I wasn't the one who wrote that, that was Katou too."
Interviewer: “Words aren't the only way to tell someone how you feel", that line, right? That's a rather mature conversation for a FF game.
Kitase: "Although I remember we had to tone down a version that was too strong."
Nojima: "The original idea was more extreme. The plan was for Cloud to walk out of the chocobo stable in the airship, followed by Tifa leaving while she kept looking around, but Kitase rejected it. But I think perhaps no one expected that line to be so important [laughs]"
Just to clarify, SE never said that Kato wanted a chocobo stable sex scene. All SE said was that the original scene with the risque dialogue was supposed to have taken place in a chocobo stable. Some fans jump to the conclusion that SE is saying sex happened but it seems people forget that just because something is "risque"(AKA suggestive of something sexual) doesn't mean anything actually happened. For all we know, maybe SE toned down the scene by changing the setting because they didn't want people to absolutely think something did happen.
Also, notice how Nojima said the line ISN'T important. If in that scene Cloud and Tifa supposedly boinked then why are the creators so shocked when someone makes the scene out to be something important? They never thought it would be important to people because the scene isn't important, especially to the creators.
Are you shitting me.
Cloti is not canon. Nojima called Cloud AERITH'S lover... on top of all the other facts i've posted... You seem to think that just because you INTERPRET something a certain way then it means what YOU think it does. However, that's flawed logic. There's NO debating the fact that CLoud was defined as Aerith's lover. Cloti cannot be canon when Cloud's the lover of Aerith.
This is just getting ridiculous.
Now, I have to go--I'll probably edit this and add more later.
Second, you seem to be making Cloud out as if he's some creepy stalker when that wasn't the case. I mean, just read over what you say here;
He was not "obsessed" with her. He had a dim crush on her just like many of the other boys in their hometown. Cloud's crush on Tifa was generic, it was the same as all the other boys. She was the cliche popular girl in town, literally every single boy was crushing on her and became infatuated by her.
In FFVII Ultimania Tifa even admits that she went on dates with all the boys in town, read for yourself:
TIFA'S DIARY: "I wonder if Wel, Dan, Meiday, and the other boys who left the village are doing alright?
All the boys left for the city. They all called me out to the water tower. They all said the same things."
Notice how they all called her out to the well, making Cloud's invitation to the well generic and just the same as the other boys. Also notice how Tifa shows concern for those boys. This proves that Cloud's canon DIM and immature crush wasn't something as special as you believe it to be. His feelings for her were just the same as the other boys.
Thirdly, the creators of the game and story have said Cloud's crush on Tifa was DIM, as in weak. They've recently also said that his crush was "fleeting" and "immature"--neither of those adjectives define everlasting love nor are they words you'd use if you want to convey lasting feelings.
QUOTE 1: The promise with a childhood friend: Before leaving Nibelheim, Cloud said that “I’ll be a SOLDIER” to a village girl, Tifa, WHOM HE DIMLY FELL IN LOVE WITH, and made a promise to protect her. Such a pompous declaration turns out to be false - considering this, Cloud conceals his identity and coldly sweats under his helmet when he confronts his hometown.
******
QUOTE 2: “The True Wish Revealed: When Cloud was very young, he had no friends from others around his age, so he tried to believe himself special, he was an alienated child. Such as, when regarding him Tifa was important—the FLEETING AND ALSO IMMATURE LOVE was divulged in the spirit world.”— FF7 25th AU
As I said above, these two quotes clearly tell us the degree of Cloud's crush on Tifa, it's been described as fleeting, immature, and DIM--so you're interpretation of Cloud's crush on Tifa is pointless and holds no substantial importance in this debate because Nomura has already told us that his crush was childish, dim, and fleeting.
A fleeting and immature crush is not lasting—it is exactly as it said it is, fleeting; as in ceasing to exist. So the childhood crush that he used to have for Tifa has officially died out, meaning his dim feelings for her stopped.
If he continued to “love” her in the present time, then his love for her in present day would be considered a continuation of his childhood crush, meaning his crush would have had to never ended in order for love to develop in the future. If love did develop in the future then his crush would have just grown into love, meaning his previous feelings would still be involved in present day feelings and they would have just grown into something more…but not die out, though.
If Cloud’s crush ended (which this quote proves), then love couldn’t have developed from Cloud>Tifa in the future. The crush would be the basis, or foundation, of his could-be-future-love for her… And because he held that dim crush in the past that means if he were to continue on into the future loving her then his future love would be a growth stemming from his previous crush, which would involve his crush still existing...
However, as this official quote clearly points out, Cloud’s crush—which is the entire foundation of any possible future feelings he could have for her—has ceased to exist, that means he doesn’t carry romantic feelings for her in present day. Again, if he did, his crush wouldn’t be described as “fleeting” and “immature”, it would be a continuation.
All of this proves that his dim, fleeting, and immature crush that you claim is so important, actually isn't as important or long-lasting as you think it is.
So, yes it is completely plausible and possible that Cloud moved on from his DIM, IMMATURE, and FLEETING crush for Tifa and developed romantic interest in Aerith. I'm sorry you think this makes no sense but the creators are the ones who said Cloud's crush was dim and fleeting (as in, it disappeared after so long) and it was the creators who made Cloud willingly go on TWO dates with Aerith when Tifa's throwing herself at him.
And Tifa is not mature, dependable, or responsible. She left a four year old child in a bar while Midgar was going to hell in a shit basket, but Aerith sacrificed herself to save that same little girl, only Aerith didn't know Marlene. But this is WAY off base since it comes down to interpretation.
Cloud's crush ENDED, Nomura said Cloud's crush was DIM, IMMATURE, AND FLEETING--stop saying he was still interested in her. The creators have said otherwise.
I think you need to replay the game. Cloud was NOT Zack. Cloud did not have Zack's feelings, all Cloud had was Zack's OCCUPATIONAL legacy and a few memories. IF Cloud took on Zack's feelings and life like you claim, Cloud would have called himself ZACK FAIR and he would have instantly known who Aerith was and resumed dating her as if he was Zack, but instead neither happened.
IF Cloud was "Zack" during the time he knew Aerith, the Jenova cells in Cloud would have mimicked Aerith's memories and Cloud would have called himself Zack Fair and acted as if he and Aerith had been together already, Cloud WOULD HAVE resumed Zack's feelings and romantic stand-point.
Did you see Cloud calling himself Zack Fair?
Did you see Cloud recalling memories only Zack and Aerith would know?
Did you see Aerith acting as if Cloud was Zack?
Did you see Cloud or Aerith acting as if they knew each other?
Did you see Cloud or Aerith recalling any of Zack and Aerith's previous romantic interactions?
Cloud took Zack's legacy and a few traits of his, but that's where it ends. And what he did mimic from Zack was possible only from CLOUD'S memory, not anyone else. So no, Cloud did not start showing interest in Aerith because he was "Zack"--he was not Zack and never was. The game CLEARLY proves this.
Victoriously? Did you just use that word on a woman that lied to Cloud about his past all so she could have a little longer to think about what she wanted to do (as if she even had to think about such a thing, she should have told him immediately)? Tifa was keeping Cloud's past from him, for whatever reason, she did what she OWED him, what anyone would owe ANYONE. You're glorifying this and it's... it's really strange. :/
I just imagined Cid watching Cloud turn Tifa down.... awkward.
Nomura already said that he has NO idea whether or not Cloud and Tifa got together at the end of VII or during AC.
QUOTE 3: Nomura: I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don't have any clue. ~Nomura, Dorimaga interview, published at Flaregamer
So even if you think that quote has any significance it's nullified by Nomura's comment here. If the creator doesn't know if they're together, then neither to the characters. Besides that, the HAHW scene isn't a canon outcome. It's optional. So even IF it was romantic, it's an optional scene that isn't the canon outcome.
Cloud felt guilt for Zack, yes that is true--but his guilt for Aerith was IMMENSE and FAR FAR GREATER. Let's just recap some things, shall we.
VII
1) Cloud never speaks of ANY guilt or emotions about Zack after learning of him.
2) Cloud says that the world being destroyed doesn't matter all because AERITH was gone now.
3) Cloud says that he thinks about Aerith A LOT, if he felt the same guilt for Zack why isn't he thinking about him a lot as well?
4) Cloud says that above everything else he is fighting to unfreeze Aerith's smile (said in Dismantled)
CONCLUSION IN VII: Cloud never speaks of Zack but ALWAYS speaks of Aerith, Cloud shows guilt only for Aerith during VII--meaning: he did not put his guilt for them on the same level.
AC:
1) Cloud is able to go to Zack's grave very easily.
2) However, Nomura said Cloud AVOIDS the forgotten city because the pain Cloud feels is too immense.
3) Cloud only seeks AERITH'S forgiveness, not Zack's. Automatically proving which of the guilt Cloud cares for more.
4) Nomura said only AERITH can lift the immense sadness and pain from Cloud, if Zack's death weighed on him just as much then it would have taken BOTH of their "forgiveness" to lift that sadness.
5) Cloud said that he wanted AERITH'S forgiveness more than anything.
6) Cloud was willing to give up on his promise to Zack and die because of how depressed and sad he was about Aerith's death.
CONCLUSION IN AC: While Cloud can visit Zack's grave, he simply cannot bare to revisit the place where he and Aerith parted because it overwhelms him with sadness and emotion--Nomura said the forgotten capital was the one place Cloud avoided simply because of the pain and sadness he felt when there. It's been stated that only Aerith's forgiveness can heal Cloud's pain (not Zack's) and it was stated by Cloud himself that he wanted AERITH'S forgiveness more than anything, that means even over forgiveness from Zack. The fact that Cloud was willing to give up on his promise to Zack proves that his guilt for Aerith was far more important.
All of this proves that Cloud's "guilt" for Zack was not anywhere near as large or immense as his guilt and sadness for Aerith was.
Cloud's crush ENDED before VII even began, Nomura said Cloud's crush was DIM, IMMATURE, AND FLEETING--please stop saying he was still interested in her when I've provided quotes proving that the creators have said otherwise.
Is that because you say so? It's coming off like it is.
Cloud accepted TWO dates from Aerith, TWO--one in which ended "magically" after Aerith confessed her feelings to him. And YES the Clerith date IS canon.
I can prove the Clerith date is canon with one quote... are you ready?
QUOTE 4: Aerith : Oh, Cloud… I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful. I’ll never forget it. I’ll never forget you, Cloud… --- DISMANTLED
Take notice to the very very very important detail in that sentence. What is it that jumps out at you? What wins the utmost attention? If it’s not “I enjoyed our date at Gold Saucer” than you probably just can’t believe something as inarguable as this could exist. It’s like Square Enix really really did not want anyone to have any ounce of confusion about which date is canon, and boy! did this quote hammer home which girl Cloud went on the magical date with in the city of desire.
Keep in mind this is a non-optional scene that includes Aerith recalling her and Cloud’s date in the Gold Saucer and it definitely canonizes the Clerith date, just like AC canonizes Yuffie and Vincent's existence.
So yes, the clerith date IS canon. And this proves that Cloud DID develop romantic interest in Aerith.
You can read my full essay here...
http://astoryofalove.tumblr.com/clerithdate
I’ve seen quite a few people claim that it’s Cloud and Tifa who are the default date for a few reasons. And hopefully I can somewhat prove it’s Aerith who is the default date. And yes, I know. I’m going to be trampled underfoot for writing this, but hey, what can a girl do?
Argument 1. “The U20 & VII’s 10th AU shows a picture of Cloud and Tifa’s date.”
Yes, it’s true. The U20 and 10th AU do show Tifa’s date. In the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile page, it has this;
[FFVII] “Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.”
And in Tifa’s U20 profile this is said;
[FFVII] “She is shy when it comes to love. She’s getting better at plainly expressing her feelings to Cloud, though, and can do so more easily now.”- translated by TresDias
As you can see, neither of those quotes says anything about which girl is easiest to get or is thenormal choice. It just goes on about how Aerith is able to tell Cloud her feelings when Tifa cannot. But there’s no evidence that supports the idea of Tifa being the default date. Nothing like one of the creators saying she’s easiest to get or is the normal choice. Nothing.
Argument 2. “The song that plays during that scene is “Interrupted by fireworks/Drowned by fireworks” which matches Tifa best because Tifa doesn’t get to finish telling Cloud her feelings because she is literally interrupted by fireworks.”
The second and most known argument used. The song that plays on the gondola is indeed a song named “Interrupted by Fireworks.”
But this song doesn’t just play on the date. In a matter of fact, it plays many other times that I can think of right off of the bat.
First, when you are walking the train-tracks in Coral. Second, is when Caitsith tells everybody that he’ll solve the puzzles in the Temple of the Ancients. And most importantly, this song plays when Cloud and Aerith have their stars being perfect for each other and then their affinity predicted. It’s clear that this song, “interrupted by frieworks/drowned by fireworks,” plays in other scenes besides the date.
So if the song’s name held any meaning at all to any of the scenes it appears in, why isn’t anyone being interrupted when Caitsith solves the puzzle or when you’re walking the train-tracks of Coral?
Because, the song is just a song that appears in the game, it has no meaning behind it. Another thing, Tifa is interrupted just as much as anyone else on the date is. Aerith says she wants to meet Cloud as the fireworks start, and then nothing more is said. That’s being interrupted.
If anything, this song matches Cloud and Aerith more than anyone else. It not only plays during their affinity prediction, but also any time Cloud remembers Aerith. So it makes much more sense that the song is a Cloud and Aerith tune rather than a song made simply for Tifa, to which it has no connection to.
Argument 3. ” Is because Tifa was interrupted on the date, it matches the Highwind scene—since she is able to finally make her feelings obvious. Therefore it matches the storyline better for it to be Tifa.”
This has to really be the only argument to me that makes any sense at all.
First and foremost, both Highwind scenes, whether low or high, hasn’t been confirmed to be default or canon. So even if Tifa’s date matches the High affection Highwind scene it doesn’t matter because the High affection highwind scene isn’t canon nor default. But if we’re going to claim a certain date is default because it plugs in with the story better. Aerith being Cloud’s date outweighs the reasoning for Tifa easily.
First of all, in the beginning of the game, Aerith asks Cloud to become her bodyguard, in which Cloud replies by telling her “it’ll cost her”, which she then promises a date and Cloud Agrees.
Aerith: “Say, Cloud. Have you ever been a bodyguard?”
Aerith: “You DO do everything, right?”
Cloud:”Yeah, that’s right.”
Aerith: “Then, get me out of here. Take me home.”
Cloud:”OK, I’ll do it… but it’ll cost you.”
Aerith:”Well then, let’s see……”
"How about if I go out with you once?"
(Cloud makes an affirmative nod. He confronts the person.)
I know some will try and claim that Cloud doesn’t agree. But if Cloud didn’t accept the date as payment, then why would he be protecting her? He just got finished telling her that it would cost her for his protection. She offers the date for his protection and Cloud immediately confronts Reno, A Turk coming after Aerith.
If Cloud didn’t accept her date as payment for his protection, then he really wouldn’t have started to protect her so quickly. If he didn’t accept the date, then he should have at least told her they’d figure out how else it will “cost her” after he rescues her from Reno. But he didn’t. Instead, after he hears how she plans on paying him back, he nods his head and quickly turns and faces Reno—the person who Aerith is running from, protecting her in the process.
You can find the video of Cloud accepting the date as payment; Go to the time of 6:54-7:02
{if GIF is not working, click here}
It’s very clear that Cloud nods his head in that scene to accept Aerith’s date as payment for him protecting her. But, still, some would still ignore Cloud’s affirmative nod. This gif, however, proves he does in fact nod to her proposal of one date for his protection. Moving on…
To add to this, both Cloud and Aerith speak of their “promised date" through out the game; the scene when they’re locked in the Shinra jail; they speak of their promised date and how it was the deal they made in return for Cloud’s protection.
Aerith:”I knew that Cloud would come for me.”
Cloud:”Hey, I’m your bodyguard, right?”
Aerith:”The deal was for one date, right?”
So, here they are speaking about how the deal for Cloud to be her bodyguard is for one date in exchange. Again, if Cloud didn’t accept the date, why are they speaking about how the “deal was for one date?” And if Cloud didn’t accept her date, then he should have surely said so here, shouldn’t he? Did he? No. Of course not. Because the date with Aerith is exactly what he wanted from her. Not money like he forced Tifa and Barret to pay him with… just one magical date.
The date is reinforced by the fact that Aerith calls Cloud her bodyguard in these scenes;
-As they’re crossing the rooftops after leaving the Church:
Aerith “…Your eyes. They have a strange glow…”
Cloud “That’s the sign of those who have been infused with Mako…”
"A mark of SOLDIER."
"But, how did you know about that?"
Aerith “……..Oh, nothing.”
Cloud “Nothing….?”
Aerith “Right, nothing!”
"Come on, let’s go! Bodyguard!"
-When Aerith introduces Cloud to Elmyra:
Aerith “I’m home, mom.”
(Her mother, Elmyra, walks over.)
"This is Cloud, my bodyguard."
Elmyra “Bodyguard…..? You mean you were followed again!?”
"Are you all right!? You’re not hurt, are you!?"
As they’re leaving Midgar (an optional response):
<CHOICE> Really? …You worried?
It’s dangerous. You sure you want to go?
Cloud: “Really? …You worried?”
Aerith: “A little,… no, maybe a lot. But I have my bodyguard, right?”
Why would Aerith be calling Cloud her bodyguard if he wasn’t her bodyguard? And more importantly, why is Cloud allowing her to call him bodyguard? Perhaps, because, he IS her bodyguard? And for Cloud to be her bodyguard that would involve Cloud accepting Aerith’s date as payment. Since, payment is what Cloud wanted to be her body guard in the first place.
Well, Aerith’s words obviously don’t mean anything in the LTD. How about Cloud’s own words, then? Through the game, we see Cloud even believes he is Aerith’s bodyguard. And this is not only reinforced by all the times he protects her, but also by this quote found in the FFVII Dismantled. Page 141.
Well, it’s midnight already, seems about time to leave for the 7th Street.
Aerith declared that she’ll show me the way. But if I let her, it seems hard to tell who’s the bodyguard. I’m gonna slip out of here.
It seems as though, Cloud does think of himself as Aerith’s bodyguard, meaning, he did accept her date, otherwise he wouldn’t be calling himself her bodyguard if he didn’t get payment.
More evidence to support this notion is found in the same book, Dismantled, this is said;Page 148
Aerith: Well, as for the one-date payment, I think I should make it two!
Why would Aerith say this if Cloud didn’t accept the date in the first place? Simple, because he did.
Also, Aerith being the default date is further proven by the following scan and translation of a FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania page.
Translation done by Saeki of the CxA forums:
Top left :
Cloud, come and rescue me okay?
Top Middle :
Are you okay?
Top right :
Aerith : I’m looking for you.
Centre :
FFVII has always been in our hearts ~
This page is showing significant scenes from the game. And as you can see, the date that is shown is Aerith’s along with her line “I’m looking for you”. To think, if Tifa’s was the default date one of her lines would appear on this scan?
And, from the Final Fantasy Art Collection, an official collection of collector’s cards;
#065 AERITH GAINSBOROUGH
Going to the Promised Land The fated meeting with Cloud wavers the fate of Aerith. The Cetra language that Aerith heard from her mother when she was young. A person who nurtures the Planet. As the last of the Ancient race, she takes it as her responsibility to go to the Promised Land that she has not seen. Aerith sees traces of Zack in Cloud and her very pure heart leads her to develop a liking for Cloud.
Well then, let’s see…… How about if I go out with you once?
(Payment for Cloud.)
No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…
(First and last date.)
For it to have been Tifa as the default date, that means Cloud and Aerith’s date couldn’t have been said to be their last. Because, supposedly, Cloud and Aerith’s date never happened—so again, how can a date that never occurred be their last? This alone might not canonize the date, but it definitely gives us more detail as to what happened between Cloud and Aerith on this date in the city of desire.
#111 The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A promised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now…
I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different… No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…
The first heavy font part—A promised date that ends in a magical night—could only be talking about the date Aerith promised Cloud for his protection. If it was Tifa who was supposed to be the date, it wouldn’t be described as a “promised date.” As we all know, no where in the game does Cloud or Tifa everpromise the other a date. The only person to promise a date is Aerith to Cloud. No one else. Aerith promising Cloud a date is also reinforced by Nomura in the following VIIUO quote:
This is the payment she suggests when Cloud says that it’ll cost her to hire him to be her bodyguard. This line shows the composed and mischievous side of her. It may be because of this promise that it’s easier to have Aerith be the other party in Cloud’s date when they’re in the Gold Saucer. ~pg. 30, FFVII Ultimania Omega
Notice how it says because of Aerith’s promise to Cloud for one date it makes her as the date easiest to get? As said above, the “promised date" in the "city of desire" that "ends magically" isindeed Cloud and Aerith’s date.
You’ve all read it yourself, the promise of paying Cloud with one date, makes it easier to get Aerith as Cloud’s date. Again, if Tifa was the default date, it should be Tifa who is the easiest date to get, not Aerith. But, this isn’t all we should look at. There’s also this DISMANTLED quote:
1. In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith. ~FFVII Dismantled
So there’s also a quote saying that Aerith is the girl to come as the date if you play the gamenormally. If Tifa was the default date, why is Aerith the date you get if you play the gamenormally? Shouldn’t it be Tifa? Why is Tifa an abnormal date to get if she is in fact the default/canon date for Cloud?
And if the song “Interrupted by Fireworks” had any meaning or significance to the date at all, especially if the song only fits Tifa, it should be Tifa who is easiest to get on the date. It should be Tifa who comes if you play the game normally. Not Aerith.
One last detail one must keep in mind is this last quote published in FINAL FANTASY VII DISMANTLED that takes place during Cloud’s dream in the forgotten forest:
Aerith : Oh, Cloud… I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful.
I’ll never forget it.
I’ll never forget you, Cloud…
Take notice to the very very very important detail in that sentence. What is it that jumps out at you? What wins the utmost attention? If it’s not “I enjoyed our date at Gold Saucer” than you probably just can’t believe something as inarguable as this could exist. It’s like, Square Enix really really did not want anyone to have any ounce of confusion about which date is canon, and boy! did this quote hammer home which girl Cloud went on the magical date with in the city of desire.
The wonderful thing about this specific quote is that many many Cloti fans use the fact that the High Affection Highwind scene is referenced many times throughout the ultimanias that that must mean the HAHW scene is the canon outcome. Surely if THAT logic officializes the HAHW scene in their opinions, than a nonoptional scene including Aerith recalling her and Cloud’s date in the Gold Saucer definitely canonizes the Clerith date.
So, what’s the conclusion?
That Aerith is Cloud’s default/CANON date.
One last thing I’d like to point out; in the scan from the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania Clotis have claimed that Cloud and Tifa are canon because they *think* that the high affection version of the Highwind scene is default-despite there not being any supporting evidence to prove that-
They like to ignore that Cloud and Aerith’s date is also shown on that same exact page. And would you guess what scene is shown? The magical date in the city of desire that Cloud and Aerith go on. Clotis like to say it doesn’t mean anything because all the date quote speaks of is how multiple people can appear on the date. However, Clotis ignore that the highwind scene is also said to be optional with no canon outcome.
But if the obvious default date is Aerith, and the default highwind scene still hasn’t been made clear like the way the date has been spoken about, isn’t it kinda obvious which couple of the two has more significance in that scan?
The default and canon date for Cloud and Aerith on a page about love and romance VS anoptional scene with no canon outcome?
Kinda self explanatory, isn’t it?
____________________________________
Thank you for reading. Comments are appreciated.
I’ve seen quite a few people claim that it’s Cloud and Tifa who are the default date for a few reasons. And hopefully I can somewhat prove it’s Aerith who is the default date. And yes, I know. I’m going to be trampled underfoot for writing this, but hey, what can a girl do?
Argument 1. “The U20 & VII’s 10th AU shows a picture of Cloud and Tifa’s date.”
Yes, it’s true. The U20 and 10th AU do show Tifa’s date. In the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud’s profile page, it has this;
[FFVII] “Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.”
And in Tifa’s U20 profile this is said;
[FFVII] “She is shy when it comes to love. She’s getting better at plainly expressing her feelings to Cloud, though, and can do so more easily now.”- translated by TresDias
As you can see, neither of those quotes says anything about which girl is easiest to get or is thenormal choice. It just goes on about how Aerith is able to tell Cloud her feelings when Tifa cannot. But there’s no evidence that supports the idea of Tifa being the default date. Nothing like one of the creators saying she’s easiest to get or is the normal choice. Nothing.
Argument 2. “The song that plays during that scene is “Interrupted by fireworks/Drowned by fireworks” which matches Tifa best because Tifa doesn’t get to finish telling Cloud her feelings because she is literally interrupted by fireworks.”
The second and most known argument used. The song that plays on the gondola is indeed a song named “Interrupted by Fireworks.”
But this song doesn’t just play on the date. In a matter of fact, it plays many other times that I can think of right off of the bat.
First, when you are walking the train-tracks in Coral. Second, is when Caitsith tells everybody that he’ll solve the puzzles in the Temple of the Ancients. And most importantly, this song plays when Cloud and Aerith have their stars being perfect for each other and then their affinity predicted. It’s clear that this song, “interrupted by frieworks/drowned by fireworks,” plays in other scenes besides the date.
So if the song’s name held any meaning at all to any of the scenes it appears in, why isn’t anyone being interrupted when Caitsith solves the puzzle or when you’re walking the train-tracks of Coral?
Because, the song is just a song that appears in the game, it has no meaning behind it. Another thing, Tifa is interrupted just as much as anyone else on the date is. Aerith says she wants to meet Cloud as the fireworks start, and then nothing more is said. That’s being interrupted.
If anything, this song matches Cloud and Aerith more than anyone else. It not only plays during their affinity prediction, but also any time Cloud remembers Aerith. So it makes much more sense that the song is a Cloud and Aerith tune rather than a song made simply for Tifa, to which it has no connection to.
Argument 3. ” Is because Tifa was interrupted on the date, it matches the Highwind scene—since she is able to finally make her feelings obvious. Therefore it matches the storyline better for it to be Tifa.”
This has to really be the only argument to me that makes any sense at all.
First and foremost, both Highwind scenes, whether low or high, hasn’t been confirmed to be default or canon. So even if Tifa’s date matches the High affection Highwind scene it doesn’t matter because the High affection highwind scene isn’t canon nor default. But if we’re going to claim a certain date is default because it plugs in with the story better. Aerith being Cloud’s date outweighs the reasoning for Tifa easily.
First of all, in the beginning of the game, Aerith asks Cloud to become her bodyguard, in which Cloud replies by telling her “it’ll cost her”, which she then promises a date and Cloud Agrees.
Aerith: “Say, Cloud. Have you ever been a bodyguard?”
Aerith: “You DO do everything, right?”
Cloud:”Yeah, that’s right.”
Aerith: “Then, get me out of here. Take me home.”
Cloud:”OK, I’ll do it… but it’ll cost you.”
Aerith:”Well then, let’s see……”
"How about if I go out with you once?"
(Cloud makes an affirmative nod. He confronts the person.)
I know some will try and claim that Cloud doesn’t agree. But if Cloud didn’t accept the date as payment, then why would he be protecting her? He just got finished telling her that it would cost her for his protection. She offers the date for his protection and Cloud immediately confronts Reno, A Turk coming after Aerith.
If Cloud didn’t accept her date as payment for his protection, then he really wouldn’t have started to protect her so quickly. If he didn’t accept the date, then he should have at least told her they’d figure out how else it will “cost her” after he rescues her from Reno. But he didn’t. Instead, after he hears how she plans on paying him back, he nods his head and quickly turns and faces Reno—the person who Aerith is running from, protecting her in the process.
You can find the video of Cloud accepting the date as payment; Go to the time of 6:54-7:02
{if GIF is not working, click here}
It’s very clear that Cloud nods his head in that scene to accept Aerith’s date as payment for him protecting her. But, still, some would still ignore Cloud’s affirmative nod. This gif, however, proves he does in fact nod to her proposal of one date for his protection. Moving on…
To add to this, both Cloud and Aerith speak of their “promised date" through out the game; the scene when they’re locked in the Shinra jail; they speak of their promised date and how it was the deal they made in return for Cloud’s protection.
Aerith:”I knew that Cloud would come for me.”
Cloud:”Hey, I’m your bodyguard, right?”
Aerith:”The deal was for one date, right?”
So, here they are speaking about how the deal for Cloud to be her bodyguard is for one date in exchange. Again, if Cloud didn’t accept the date, why are they speaking about how the “deal was for one date?” And if Cloud didn’t accept her date, then he should have surely said so here, shouldn’t he? Did he? No. Of course not. Because the date with Aerith is exactly what he wanted from her. Not money like he forced Tifa and Barret to pay him with… just one magical date.
The date is reinforced by the fact that Aerith calls Cloud her bodyguard in these scenes;
-As they’re crossing the rooftops after leaving the Church:
Aerith “…Your eyes. They have a strange glow…”
Cloud “That’s the sign of those who have been infused with Mako…”
"A mark of SOLDIER."
"But, how did you know about that?"
Aerith “……..Oh, nothing.”
Cloud “Nothing….?”
Aerith “Right, nothing!”
"Come on, let’s go! Bodyguard!"
-When Aerith introduces Cloud to Elmyra:
Aerith “I’m home, mom.”
(Her mother, Elmyra, walks over.)
"This is Cloud, my bodyguard."
Elmyra “Bodyguard…..? You mean you were followed again!?”
"Are you all right!? You’re not hurt, are you!?"
As they’re leaving Midgar (an optional response):
<CHOICE> Really? …You worried?
It’s dangerous. You sure you want to go?
Cloud: “Really? …You worried?”
Aerith: “A little,… no, maybe a lot. But I have my bodyguard, right?”
Why would Aerith be calling Cloud her bodyguard if he wasn’t her bodyguard? And more importantly, why is Cloud allowing her to call him bodyguard? Perhaps, because, he IS her bodyguard? And for Cloud to be her bodyguard that would involve Cloud accepting Aerith’s date as payment. Since, payment is what Cloud wanted to be her body guard in the first place.
Well, Aerith’s words obviously don’t mean anything in the LTD. How about Cloud’s own words, then? Through the game, we see Cloud even believes he is Aerith’s bodyguard. And this is not only reinforced by all the times he protects her, but also by this quote found in the FFVII Dismantled. Page 141.
Well, it’s midnight already, seems about time to leave for the 7th Street.
Aerith declared that she’ll show me the way. But if I let her, it seems hard to tell who’s the bodyguard. I’m gonna slip out of here.
It seems as though, Cloud does think of himself as Aerith’s bodyguard, meaning, he did accept her date, otherwise he wouldn’t be calling himself her bodyguard if he didn’t get payment.
More evidence to support this notion is found in the same book, Dismantled, this is said;Page 148
Aerith: Well, as for the one-date payment, I think I should make it two!
Why would Aerith say this if Cloud didn’t accept the date in the first place? Simple, because he did.
Also, Aerith being the default date is further proven by the following scan and translation of a FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania page.
Translation done by Saeki of the CxA forums:
Top left :
Cloud, come and rescue me okay?
Top Middle :
Are you okay?
Top right :
Aerith : I’m looking for you.
Centre :
FFVII has always been in our hearts ~
This page is showing significant scenes from the game. And as you can see, the date that is shown is Aerith’s along with her line “I’m looking for you”. To think, if Tifa’s was the default date one of her lines would appear on this scan?
And, from the Final Fantasy Art Collection, an official collection of collector’s cards;
#065 AERITH GAINSBOROUGH
Going to the Promised Land The fated meeting with Cloud wavers the fate of Aerith. The Cetra language that Aerith heard from her mother when she was young. A person who nurtures the Planet. As the last of the Ancient race, she takes it as her responsibility to go to the Promised Land that she has not seen. Aerith sees traces of Zack in Cloud and her very pure heart leads her to develop a liking for Cloud.
Well then, let’s see…… How about if I go out with you once?
(Payment for Cloud.)
No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…
(First and last date.)
For it to have been Tifa as the default date, that means Cloud and Aerith’s date couldn’t have been said to be their last. Because, supposedly, Cloud and Aerith’s date never happened—so again, how can a date that never occurred be their last? This alone might not canonize the date, but it definitely gives us more detail as to what happened between Cloud and Aerith on this date in the city of desire.
#111 The Planet’s largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A promised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now…
I think I must have seen him again, in you… But you’re different. Things are different… No, Cloud… I’m searching for you…
The first heavy font part—A promised date that ends in a magical night—could only be talking about the date Aerith promised Cloud for his protection. If it was Tifa who was supposed to be the date, it wouldn’t be described as a “promised date.” As we all know, no where in the game does Cloud or Tifa everpromise the other a date. The only person to promise a date is Aerith to Cloud. No one else. Aerith promising Cloud a date is also reinforced by Nomura in the following VIIUO quote:
This is the payment she suggests when Cloud says that it’ll cost her to hire him to be her bodyguard. This line shows the composed and mischievous side of her. It may be because of this promise that it’s easier to have Aerith be the other party in Cloud’s date when they’re in the Gold Saucer. ~pg. 30, FFVII Ultimania Omega
Notice how it says because of Aerith’s promise to Cloud for one date it makes her as the date easiest to get? As said above, the “promised date" in the "city of desire" that "ends magically" isindeed Cloud and Aerith’s date.
You’ve all read it yourself, the promise of paying Cloud with one date, makes it easier to get Aerith as Cloud’s date. Again, if Tifa was the default date, it should be Tifa who is the easiest date to get, not Aerith. But, this isn’t all we should look at. There’s also this DISMANTLED quote:
1. In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith. ~FFVII Dismantled
So there’s also a quote saying that Aerith is the girl to come as the date if you play the gamenormally. If Tifa was the default date, why is Aerith the date you get if you play the gamenormally? Shouldn’t it be Tifa? Why is Tifa an abnormal date to get if she is in fact the default/canon date for Cloud?
And if the song “Interrupted by Fireworks” had any meaning or significance to the date at all, especially if the song only fits Tifa, it should be Tifa who is easiest to get on the date. It should be Tifa who comes if you play the game normally. Not Aerith.
One last detail one must keep in mind is this last quote published in FINAL FANTASY VII DISMANTLED that takes place during Cloud’s dream in the forgotten forest:
Aerith : Oh, Cloud… I enjoyed our date at the Gold Saucer. The view from the gondola that night was really beautiful.
I’ll never forget it.
I’ll never forget you, Cloud…
Take notice to the very very very important detail in that sentence. What is it that jumps out at you? What wins the utmost attention? If it’s not “I enjoyed our date at Gold Saucer” than you probably just can’t believe something as inarguable as this could exist. It’s like, Square Enix really really did not want anyone to have any ounce of confusion about which date is canon, and boy! did this quote hammer home which girl Cloud went on the magical date with in the city of desire.
The wonderful thing about this specific quote is that many many Cloti fans use the fact that the High Affection Highwind scene is referenced many times throughout the ultimanias that that must mean the HAHW scene is the canon outcome. Surely if THAT logic officializes the HAHW scene in their opinions, than a nonoptional scene including Aerith recalling her and Cloud’s date in the Gold Saucer definitely canonizes the Clerith date.
So, what’s the conclusion?
That Aerith is Cloud’s default/CANON date.
One last thing I’d like to point out; in the scan from the Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania Clotis have claimed that Cloud and Tifa are canon because they *think* that the high affection version of the Highwind scene is default-despite there not being any supporting evidence to prove that-
They like to ignore that Cloud and Aerith’s date is also shown on that same exact page. And would you guess what scene is shown? The magical date in the city of desire that Cloud and Aerith go on. Clotis like to say it doesn’t mean anything because all the date quote speaks of is how multiple people can appear on the date. However, Clotis ignore that the highwind scene is also said to be optional with no canon outcome.
But if the obvious default date is Aerith, and the default highwind scene still hasn’t been made clear like the way the date has been spoken about, isn’t it kinda obvious which couple of the two has more significance in that scan?
The default and canon date for Cloud and Aerith on a page about love and romance VS anoptional scene with no canon outcome?
Kinda self explanatory, isn’t it?
____________________________________
Thank you for reading. Comments are appreciated.
Another thing that proves Cloud developed feelings for Aerith is the fact that Cloud’s Romantic Interest In Aerith Is Spoken Of In Marlene’s 25thAU Pages!
The original scene which shows Cloud’s romantic interest in AERITH is the following;
Marlene: ”Guess what? Guess what? Aerith was asking me lots of questions. Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!”
Choices that you can make Cloud reply with: ”I don’t know” OR "Let’s hope so" If you choose “Let’s hope so" this happens;
- Marlene: ”I won’t tell Tifa!”
And now thanks to Furybrand of the Clerith forums for first mentioning this to us and a thanks to TLS for the translation, here is the significant quote that proves Cloud says "let's hope so" about Aerith liking him;
"Marlene is a sharp girl
"Even though she’s only 4 years old, Marlene is perceptive and well attuned to the woman mind. The scene where she ascertains that Aerith has favor for Cloud and tells him so, then says “I won’t tell Tifa!” demonstrates this grownup behavior.”
マリンはおませんな女の子
まだ4歳なのに、マリンはおしゃまで女心に敏感。エアリスがクラウドに好意を持っていることを見抜いて彼に報告し、「ティファには内緒にしておく」と一人前に気をまわすひ と幕も。
IMAGE PROVIDED BY TLS * SOURCE
One can say that this canonizes that Cloud tells Marlene that he hopes Aerith likes him— this shows IMMENSE significance because it shows that CLOUD wants Aerith to like him, which shows his romantic interest in Aerith. This page canonizes this outcome not simply because it merely mentions it, but it says this particular scene is needed to show Marlene's growth as a character.
And real quickly, I want to tell you that in DISMANTLED Cloud says Aerith's smile is a good purchase, he says she has impressive eyes, and he misses her laugh and smile and compares her smile to a flower---all of this clearly indicate romantic interest. Not to mention the only person he says he wants to be there for is AERITH.
W-what?
Highwind scene... which one? Both haven't been declared the canon outcome so this is stupid talking about an optional scene. Cot shows Cloud and Tifa fighting constantly, lying to each other, being annoyed by one another... how is that a good thing for you? Also, you realize that Barret and Tifa raised Marlene together BEFORE Cloud even was introduced in VII right? And you also realize that Marlene ADOPTED Cloud into Barret and Tifa's family, making him like Tifa's child?
It was not "fake" Cloud--and yes... when someone screams at the top of their lungs that they don't care if the world is destroyed now that a certain someone isn't with them anymore, then yes... it is freaking inarguably romantic. Keep in mind, Cloud said he didn't give a shit about what happened to the planet or its people when TIFA was still alive. If he loved her then he should have wanted to protect the planet FOR HER but instead Cloud wanted everything to end just because Aerith was gone.
I'm beginning to think you've never read that quote...
Kitase: "The event on the airship the night before the final battle was done by Katou as well, wasn't it."
Nojima: "Oh, the bit with that risqué/suggestive dialogue? I wasn't the one who wrote that, that was Katou too."
Interviewer: “Words aren't the only way to tell someone how you feel", that line, right? That's a rather mature conversation for a FF game.
Kitase: "Although I remember we had to tone down a version that was too strong."
Nojima: "The original idea was more extreme. The plan was for Cloud to walk out of the chocobo stable in the airship, followed by Tifa leaving while she kept looking around, but Kitase rejected it. But I think perhaps no one expected that line to be so important [laughs]"
Just to clarify, SE never said that Kato wanted a chocobo stable sex scene. All SE said was that the original scene with the risque dialogue was supposed to have taken place in a chocobo stable. Some fans jump to the conclusion that SE is saying sex happened but it seems people forget that just because something is "risque"(AKA suggestive of something sexual) doesn't mean anything actually happened. For all we know, maybe SE toned down the scene by changing the setting because they didn't want people to absolutely think something did happen.
Also, notice how Nojima said the line ISN'T important. If in that scene Cloud and Tifa supposedly boinked then why are the creators so shocked when someone makes the scene out to be something important?
They never thought it would be important to people because the scene isn't important, especially to the creators.
Are you shitting me.
Cloti is not canon. Nojima called Cloud AERITH'S lover... on top of all the other facts i've posted... You seem to think that just because you INTERPRET something a certain way then it means what YOU think it does. However, that's flawed logic. There's NO debating the fact that CLoud was defined as Aerith's lover. Cloti cannot be canon when Cloud's the lover of Aerith.
This is just getting ridiculous.
Now, I have to go--I'll probably edit this and add more later.
Didn't you just say Cloud loved Tifa a page ago... of course a cloti post makes sense to you. they haven't made any sense in regards to the LTD yet. They've used fan interpretations but that's it.