Do you believe in God?

[der Astronom]

It's not that, but you're not even explaining in detail why you believe what you believe. All you've done is express disgust for what we believe, and I suppose we could do the same because we don't exactly buy the idea of an omnipotent God who desires love, yet won't show himself, but at least we'll explain why we choose not to believe, as I guess we already have in a non circular way. However, you can't expect we won't listen just because of what we believe. If you do, then you're just committing an ad hominem.

 

[Soul Saver]

I'm not a religious person at all and I find just about every aspect of religion laughable. Sure, it encourages people to do well in life and gives them basic principles to follow in order for them to become better people, but religion also blinds them, it makes people ignorant. I find it very hard to believe that one man built the world and everything that inhabits it in seven days, as I find omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience and omnibenevolence impossible. I belive that an extraordinary set of events triggered something and everything evolved into what it is now.

In short: I do not believe in God or any other form of deity that is deemed a "creator". I believe solely in science and what it theorises with regards to the "big bang" theory.

I believe that science will soon prove all religions false.

Laughable? Religion gives people hope and comfort in the belief of life after death. It is of benefit to a person's wellbeing to have such beliefs. Religion, in its core form, provides an answer to ultimate questions, to answer that which is not yet known, and a refuge for all humans, even the smartest and most informed, who one might expect to take a "rational" view towards death. In such an instance, faith in a higher power can act as a shield to protect a person's mental integrity.

As for the possibility of a higher being or force, I do not believe that such can be proven or disproven under the current status quo. We DON'T know everything, far from it. Is it not folly and closed-mindedness in itself to simply say that the existence of God is impossible, despite such a lack of knowledge? It limits us. We are but a speck in the universe. We haven't even scratched the surface of what's out there. If something uses technology, powers, or forces outside our sphere of perception, that we can't detect, then what? Those who don't believe and tell others that such a being does not exist only have a lack of physical evidence to support their assertion that a supreme being or unknown force does not exist. By its nature, this theoretical being can keep itself hidden in a dimension or form outside our perception and the detection of our tools. How can we logically disprove such a being despite being so insignificant? We can't. It takes faith to believe that such a being does not exist.

Religion will likely last as long as human emotion remains. Some can embrace the prospect of nothingness, but others cannot.
Faith has a powerful effect upon the human mind, so they say. Sometimes "positive", sometimes "negative".

 

[der Astronom]

It is a misconception that science exists to tell us everything we should and can know; but this is false. Science can tell us many things, but by no means should any scientist profess to know everything by the means of science. This is not a limiting factor though, as science is a growing body of knowledge rather than a static one, nor is it authoritative. I don't understand why people say the fact that we don't know everything undermines our credibility; just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything--that's just plain illogical and too black and white. The problem is with asserting or assuming that something which you have no evidence for exists--maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't, but you can say nothing about it until you have some evidence that it exists or it doesn't. In the sense of evolution and the big bang, the Christian God as described of in the bible did not create the world in a mere 6 days, nor did he create a flat Earth that was only 6000 years old--such a notion may be confined to fairy tales, as sad as it is that I have to say this--if the bible is nothing more than a metaphor, then it tells us nothing, and no one can make any conclusion off of it. Simply put, it's evidence of nothing scientific or physical. Just because you can think of something does not mean it exists. You'll either have to prove it or find evidence for it.

But as you say, faith can be positive and negative; it's like flipping a coin. But that makes it unreliable, and in my opinion, unworthy of trusting.

 

[Crazee Dayzee]

I don't really believe in God, but I think that the belief in a higher power is healthy, especially to people who are very frightened to accept being "nothing" after they die. When a particular person says that God helps them through everything, they are probably unaware (or aware, and in denial) of the fact that Faith alone helps people get through daily life, and that most humans are weak and have a very strong desire to feel as though they are being compassionately watched over. When they have this in their minds, the psychological response is a feeling of assurance and a more positive outlook on life. Obviously, these two reactions are likely to lighten up the emotional pain and negativity associated with shit people go through.

The Bible, I believe, is hogwash, in a literal sense. Taken literally, so many things are illogical. But I do believe, like most nonreligious people, that it was originally intended to be merely metaphorical. But people take this, along with the Old Testament literally (perhaps because of confusion, deception, and the lack of keeping records of the past), which is understandable for a few hundred years ago (because when people don't have a clue to something, they tend to grasp onto anything), but is laughable in the eyes of modern day Atheist Science-freaks. We have enough evidence to say that most religions are illogical in many ways.

 

[der Astronom]

Maybe it does sound reassuring to believe that there is someone watching over you, but when you're in trouble, it's not like they're going to appear and help you out--if you believed that there was someone watching you, and they did nothing, then what good is that? You only feel good because you believe they are there, but nothing confirms their presence when you actually need help. I mean sitting there believing someone is watching you isn't going to solve your problems. I would think that knowing that someone isn't watching you is good enough motivation for you to get up off of your ass and do something than mourn about how you have problems and expect someone to fix them for you.

 

[Crazee Dayzee]

Maybe it does sound reassuring to believe that there is someone watching over you, but when you're in trouble, it's not like they're going to appear and help you out--if you believed that there was someone watching you, and they did nothing, then what good is that? You only feel good because you believe they are there, but nothing confirms their presence when you actually need help. I mean sitting there believing someone is watching you isn't going to solve your problems. I would think that knowing that someone isn't watching you is good enough motivation for you to get up off of your ass and do something than mourn about how you have problems and expect someone to fix them for you.

It depends on the person, honestly.
Some people feel more confident to be able to face their problems. When they're really in trouble, they're likely to respond with less of a panic. But even that depends on the way in which they believe in God. If they just believe that something will poof out of nowhere (which might make them want to have things slide as well), then it's pretty probable that that would have a negative effect on them. But there are a lot of people who believe that this God is watching over them, and that he supposedly gives them his strength to deal with their problems, when they need it, and if they manage to die, then they'll be sent to heaven (if they tried their hardest to be a good person). That would have a good effect on the person, apart from the fact they would be unaware that it wasn't God that would have given them the strength, but rather the assurance they bore.

 

[Deleted member 176]

The problem with religion is that it offers people easy answers, and escape.

The people who are drawn to things like that, are also the people who will be easily influenced.

And many religions have aspects which could easily be twisted to negativity.

God demanding that babies be killed because their parents don't believe in him for example (city of ai)

Even just the whole "kill the disbelievers" theme that permeates the "good book"

Religion breeds intolerance. People will abuse and misuse the words in these books to unfluence and corrupt the weakest and most malleable of people, because those same people are drawn to the false promises of the religions.

Religion has started and perpetuated more war and more killing than any amount of greed, insults or even just plain evil ever has or will.

People quote the same books now as the way to live as their ancestors, and their religions ancestors, did 50 years ago when silently condoning slavery, or having a platoform of non-involvement during the holocaust, or further back, when they would drown "witches" or further back again, when they would murder babies on the direct say so from god. According to the bible anyway.

Just my 2 cents

 

[der Astronom]

Which would mean that you would have better luck proving the point about pretending god exists helps you get through the day if it didn't come from a book and it was your own personal belief that you came up with by yourself, that you didn't force on other people. One would think that it helps you get through your day, and on the other hand, doesn't piss off others.

In other words, if you just needed to believe someone was watching over you, and not worry about whether or not he watches over others, then you don't need for this being to be intolerant, racist, violent, contradictory or omnipotent--if he were omnipotent, then you depend on him too much, and all the other stuff is disgusting and redundant. In fact, you don't even need to have Jesus die either; you just need to believe that someone is watching over you to give you strength.

Even though such an idea still stands at odds with me rationally speaking. If it works for other people, I'll be happy for them.

 

[Sexy Beast]

i cant say that i believe in god but i cant say i do, because there is no proof that there is a god.at lest to me ther isn't . although there is myths of jesus back in the time where people were religious and predijus about everyone, like theytought jesus was a monster to destroy them all and nobe their savor, but in order to convince them he crucified himself. that as the only way to provehe was no monster.he was their saivor and the one who will bring peace to te world.

well that is what i believe

 

[Donald Trump]

So much hypocracy, where to start?

The Bible, I believe, is hogwash, in a literal sense. Taken literally, so many things are illogical. But I do believe, like most nonreligious people, that it was originally intended to be merely metaphorical. But people take this, along with the Old Testament literally

Romans were in charge around the time most of the bible was written, which means they couldn't write exactly what they meant. A lot of it is allegorical. Revelations for example, is imo almost exclusively allegorical. A microscopic amount of people believe the bible to be a literal text, but there are so few of them, that to use them as stereotype for religious people is extremely moronic.

I would think that knowing that someone isn't watching you is good enough motivation for you to get up off of your ass and do something than mourn about how you have problems and expect someone to fix them for you.

I've not met any religious people who expected god to solve their problems, nor do they lack motivations. Many of them take strength from knowing that god is wathcing them and helping them.

The problem with religion is that it offers people easy answers, and escape.

Yes, that is exactly what religion is, a form of escapism.
That doesn't really deserve more of a response.
So you're saying that people who go to religion are all weak as they are willing to except these easy answers?
And all they are doing is escaping from reality because they are too weak to face it.
I'm sure you've heard of Dr Martin Luther King?
Who was a reverend as well? And who lead a civil rights movement, who was one of the most influential and famous people of the 20th century. He was just escaping huh? Giving all dem coloured folk some easy answers.
Is that proof enough that religion is not about easy answers and escape? I can give you plenty more examples if you so wish.

Religion breeds intolerance. People will abuse and misuse the words in these books to unfluence and corrupt the weakest and most malleable of people, because those same people are drawn to the false promises of the religions

No, it doesn't. People don't get along well with each other, husbands murder wives, mothers murder their children, brothers murder their sisters. Religions are organisations that present a certain message. They have their own beliefs and customs, and they may clash with other people's beliefs and customs. However the same is true about countries, even with soccer teams. Religions don't always get along, but they aren't unique in this aspect. Far too many groups don't get along with each other. You're just singling out religion, plenty of other organisations could be singled out, so that point only highlights you're bias.

Religion has started and perpetuated more war and more killing than any amount of greed, insults or even just plain evil ever has or will.

No
Religions don't start wars, some members might start wars and claim religion as the cause. However that is different. That would be the same as saying all muslims are evil as Osama Bin Laden is a muslim.
More killing eh?
That is why religions raise so much money for charity every year, because they are out murdering people. Religions raise billions per year to help people, and you criticise them, do you raise billions per year? No, and therefore you cannot take the moral high ground. Religionsdo so much good in the world and all you can come up with is a pathetic statement with no facts to back it up saying religion kills more people than anyone else.

Stalin wasn't religious, how many did he kill? Over 20 million.

No more religion bashing kthnx

 

[Misty]

I've spotted condescending comments from both sides already, within the last few pages, but I can't stop people from thinking what they think.

I'm Christian, have been for a while. I won't stay here to condemn or whatever, say you're wrong and all that, I have other things to do. Plus, it's not something I would do either.

 

[SaShman]

I personally don't believe in any gods or deities in religion. However, I don't rule out the possibility of the existence of a higher power. I just don't believe that any man or woman would ever be able to find evidence supporting the existence of a 'god' and therefore for that reason I don't believe in Jehovah, Allah, Brahman ect...

Another reason why I don't believe in any religions (particularly Christianity) is this

The Arabs of Algeria were said to be excited to rebel against French colonialists by false miracles performed by their religious leaders. In 1856, Napoleon III's Second French Empire sent Robert-Houdin there, hoping that he might perform tricks that were far more impressive, thereby dissolving the excitement of the rebels. Robert-Houdin's tricks, it is said, succeeded in breaking up the influence of the mullahs. Moreover, the Arabs became afraid of Robert-Houdin. In one trick, he allowed an Arab to shoot at him with a marked bullet, but instead of killing him, the bullet was found between his teeth. After that, they believed he could do anything.

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Houdin)

Now, while this doesn't disprove anything the bible has said, it does provide an alternative explanation to Jesus' miracles. If Robert Houdin was able to convince the Algerians that he was performing miracles through simple magic tricks, technically Jesus could have done the same thing.

That is why religions raise so much money for charity every year, because they are out murdering people. Religions raise billions per year to help people, and you criticise them

I agree, I don't consider myself religious but I agree that religion does more good than bad today. It provides hope to people and as you said raises money to help people.

Wow, that is the saddest thing I've ever heard, so this is what people believe? You think some cosmetic dust or some scientific crap like that formed and created what is known as Earth?

I found it kinda funny how you said that.......then said this

so if you people won't be at all open minded to other possibilities other than just what you believe

 

[Coco]

Thank God I'm not alone in being Christian. Oh and I don't believe in religion either. That's a load of smelly dung.

But I do believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus.

Having said that, I believe and love Him because I have personally seen for myself how alive he is in my life. Now, I cannot and will not be one of those people who force others to convert, mainly because I believe its entirely one's choice to listen to the whole of God's Word, believe some parts or not at all.

I suggest though that if there is a Christian church near you to take an hour off and just see how it is. If you still don't feel anything for it, that's okay. You lose 60 minutes, big deal. You spend more time than that posting in FFF.

If you belive, you gain everything and more.

And I suggest you try praying.
(Look, I know you're gonna go about how one-sided praying is. I thought so too. Don't do it if you don't want to then. But I can say that it...works. I was a big skeptic before and I always asked the pastors, "But why?" and somehow, having a spiritual family and praying gradually changed me (it's not a snap your fingers and it be true! kind of thing)

Good luck.

 

[Aerius Sygale]

Thank God I'm not alone in being Christian. Oh and I don't believe in religion either. That's a load of smelly dung.

But I do believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus.

Having said that, I believe and love Him because I have personally seen for myself how alive he is in my life. Now, I cannot and will not be one of those people who force others to convert, mainly because I believe its entirely one's choice to listen to the whole of God's Word, believe some parts or not at all.

I suggest though that if there is a Christian church near you to take an hour off and just see how it is. If you still don't feel anything for it, that's okay. You lose 60 minutes, big deal. You spend more time than that posting in FFF.

If you belive, you gain everything and more.

And I suggest you try praying.
(Look, I know you're gonna go about how one-sided praying is. I thought so too. Don't do it if you don't want to then. But I can say that it...works. I was a big skeptic before and I always asked the pastors, "But why?" and somehow, having a spiritual family and praying gradually changed me (it's not a snap your fingers and it be true! kind of thing)

Good luck.

That's all true, I'm glad to see there's someone here who believes, and I suppose it isn't really right to try force people to convert, I'd stick with what you said, go to a Christian church sometime, give it a chance, and if you still feel the same about it, well, at least you were open enough to go to a church service and listen.


With that being said, I don't think I'll be trying to force anyone into anything here, if something happens that has you decide to believe, great, if not, that's your choice, you're entitled to your opinion, I won't like it much either if someone was persistently trying to make me believe something I don't believe.

So, well put Iris, I am happy for you. And I respect other's thoughts and opinions as well, though I am glad to see there's another Christian here, when I thought all of the FFF community was against it.

I have started reading the Bible again, and since I've started, I've been happier, I've felt a certain emptiness within me fill up, I've been more at ease than I have in a long time, it is very nice, that is just what Jesus can do, he can comfort you.

And he does answer prayers, but not so much unnecessary, luxurious ones like "Let me win that lottery lord.", but more so things you really need.

"Ask, and you shall receive."

 

[Kei]

I don't believe in God in the time being, because I have thoughts that everything existed from something, but when we think of god there isn't any proof of how this "GOD" existed.
I'd like to add there are some who says pray and god will answer, well I believe all of that is crap, it's you who do things not "GOD" if you want something just do it yourself instead of wasting your time praying.

 

[Hera Ledro]

Time for me to get back in here. I've been too inactive for too long.

That's all true, I'm glad to see there's someone here who believes, and I suppose it isn't really right to try force people to convert, I'd stick with what you said, go to a Christian church sometime, give it a chance, and if you still feel the same about it, well, at least you were open enough to go to a church service and listen.

That's essentially what I did: I went to church of my own free will, read up on the Bible a bit, and decided religion wasn't for me. It seems too illogical to rely upon a deity that may or may not exist. It's all in the faith, really. I just prefer to put my faith in logic vice illogic.

I have started reading the Bible again, and since I've started, I've been happier, I've felt a certain emptiness within me fill up, I've been more at ease than I have in a long time, it is very nice, that is just what Jesus can do, he can comfort you.

Hmm. What about people who feel this way when they read books like Eragon, then? Eragon is OBVIOUSLY fiction, but for some people, it is so inspiring and well-written that it pulls them into a somewhat-cultist fervor. They love the idea, and they love how it happens, to the point where they follow it faithfully. A lot of Eragon is backed up by more logic than the Bible was, as well. For example, Eragon's magic takes energy to use based on how much the task would exact were he to do it manually. Jesus' actions, such as the bread basket, were not illustrated to have taken any energy whatsoever, denying the logical law that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Now, I don't follow Eragon like that, but it is a good example of a current fictitious book that has religious implications. I mean, dear god look at Sephyism! It's on a video game character, and it is a (highly exaggerated) miniature religion.

What I'm getting at is that faith here is all objective. Just because you believe in it doesn't make it real.

And he does answer prayers, but not so much unnecessary, luxurious ones like "Let me win that lottery lord.", but more so things you really need.

Then why doesn't he answer pleas for world peace? I'm all for having humanity learn from its own mistakes, but there is a line to be drawn. What gave God the right to stand idly by while the Crusades were going on, BETWEEN TWO OF HIS OWN PEOPLE? It makes no sense that he would stand by while the people HE created continue to slaughter each other over such trivial things as land and faith.

Why doesn't he answer pleas to help those who intend to help others? Why not give somebody a certain talent that will help them to directly aid other people in need?

In prediction to an answer, I'm going to say flat-out that "because they are not faithful" does not roll with me. That isn't what a God should be about, what they should depend on. If God is really on a higher standard than humans, then we should hold him to higher standards, and his actions should be more accountable than our own. Saddam was in power, yet that made his actions all the more heinous. God is in power, so we must hold his actions several times more accountable than our own.

 

[Casanova]

Laughable? Religion gives people hope and comfort in the belief of life after death. It is of benefit to a person's wellbeing to have such beliefs. Religion, in its core form, provides an answer to ultimate questions, to answer that which is not yet known, and a refuge for all humans, even the smartest and most informed, who one might expect to take a "rational" view towards death. In such an instance, faith in a higher power can act as a shield to protect a person's mental integrity.

Faith when implicated rationally can be a very good thing indeed, I agree. Faith helps people to grow mentally, it encourages people to be better, to work for something that they believe in, I agree.

BUT (and this is a big but) when people take religion so seriously as to call anyone blasphemous who wishes to disprove their faith, to inject a little rational thinking into their clouded minds - that is when faith is a bad thing. That is when faith blinds people and makes them ignorant. That is when too much faith effects a religious person so badly that they just DO NOT want to hear a bad word against their beliefs because they are so brainwashed they can't think for themselves. They can't stand back and think for two seconds in front of their own face because they're scared of what they will find. Why are they scared? I'll tell you why, it's because their religion tells them it's wrong to think that way, their religion tells them it's blasphemous to even consider for a second that anything they believe in is false. And should they find anything that would disprove their faith, that would make them hypocrites.

Laughable indeed that someone should allow themselves to be sucked in so deep. I truly believe that religion is evil in this aspect because I'll be damned if I'll let ANY religion stop me from thinking freely.

 

[professor13]

They can't stand back and think for two seconds in front of their own face because they're scared of what they will find. Why are they scared? I'll tell you why, it's because their religion tells them it's wrong to think that way, their religion tells them it's blasphemous to even consider for a second that anything they believe in is false. And should they find anything that would disprove their faith, that would make them hypocrites.

Actually, this is incorrect. It is not the religion that makes us this way, it is the "religious leaders" that simply want mindless followers. It is a common enough mistake to confuse the doctrine and those that are supposed to follow it. Let me say that the Crusades were not reflective of the Christian doctrine, but of the self-righteous zealotry of politically minded religious leaders. In as much, it is not reflected in the Bible that you should ignore potentially contradictory evidence, but rather you should embrace it and see if there is even the slightest contradiction to your faith. After all, it doesn't reflect well on one's faith if one can't be open to reality.

A lot of Eragon is backed up by more logic than the Bible was, as well. For example, Eragon's magic takes energy to use based on how much the task would exact were he to do it manually. Jesus' actions, such as the bread basket, were not illustrated to have taken any energy whatsoever, denying the logical law that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Careful, Hera. You're comitting a logical fallacy in asserting that we know all the universe's rules. Yes, we live in a cause and effect world, but not necessarily in a closed system. It isn't so hard to imagine a cause and effect universe as an open system, open to interaction from God. I wish I could claim these arguments, but they are largely based off of the speaking of Ravi Zacharias, a highly intelligent man for whom I have great respect.

Then why doesn't he answer pleas for world peace? I'm all for having humanity learn from its own mistakes, but there is a line to be drawn. What gave God the right to stand idly by while the Crusades were going on, BETWEEN TWO OF HIS OWN PEOPLE? It makes no sense that he would stand by while the people HE created continue to slaughter each other over such trivial things as land and faith.

Though difficult, try and put yourself in God's position. Yes, He could have come down and caused a flood that halted the march of the crusaders, but that would not do anything for what the men in the crusades had in their hearts. I can hardly imagine the lament God felt in His heart while people marched in His name to slaughter for His glory. However, God created us in His image. We were given the gift of free will, and, with the shedding of Jesus's blood, the gift of salvation. God could not change the hearts of His children, but it was our responsibility to seek change for ourselves. Again, do not confuse the church with the Word.

Why doesn't he answer pleas to help those who intend to help others? Why not give somebody a certain talent that will help them to directly aid other people in need?

In answer to part one, who says He doesn't? Look at 'Doctors without Borders'. This is an excellent way for Humans to take the initiative to help those who help others. It is a common mistake for Christians to beg God to help those in need, then never volunteer or donate money. Christians are supposed to be the hands of God. Unfortunately, we sometimes become self-centered and look only after ourselves.

Part two: What else do we need? Hearts that can feel compassion; hands that can build, support, write, and give; minds that can problem solve; and wills to strenghten us when it looks hopeless. He's given us all the tools to change the world. Now I'm no idiot. I know that the world isn't going to pull a sudden 180, but that's what resolve is for. I'm an optimist, and I say the future looks bright (expensive, but bright)!

 

[Hera Ledro]

Careful, Hera. You're comitting a logical fallacy in asserting that we know all the universe's rules. Yes, we live in a cause and effect world, but not necessarily in a closed system. It isn't so hard to imagine a cause and effect universe as an open system, open to interaction from God. I wish I could claim these arguments, but they are largely based off of the speaking of Ravi Zacharias, a highly intelligent man for whom I have great respect.

No, I never assumed that I knew the rules of the universe, I simply stated that the law of physics that we know denies the actions of the Christ. With current logic (as limited as it may be), it is not possible to form matter in the ways that he did without an extreme tax on one's energy, much less create an entire basket of bread out of thin air. It's the same reason that those idiotic teleporters in Star Trek cannot become a reality - they assume one of two things: that matter can either be created out of thin air at one end of the conduit, or the matter reconstruction requires very little energy to do. Both of these assumptions, strikingly similar to those in the bread-basket miracle of Jesus, are logically faulty. They assume the creation of matter and/or a lack of due energy tax.

Though difficult, try and put yourself in God's position. Yes, He could have come down and caused a flood that halted the march of the crusaders, but that would not do anything for what the men in the crusades had in their hearts. I can hardly imagine the lament God felt in His heart while people marched in His name to slaughter for His glory. However, God created us in His image. We were given the gift of free will, and, with the shedding of Jesus's blood, the gift of salvation. God could not change the hearts of His children, but it was our responsibility to seek change for ourselves. Again, do not confuse the church with the Word.

That IS coming from his position. To make a more relatable argument, if I were the father of an entire clan, as you claim God to be to Humanity, I would be sure to aid in teaching them what is shown to be right. Now, I will not be so arrogant as to claim knowledge to the intricacies of ethics and morals, but I do know that intolerance is an abhorrent crime, no matter how many people say otherwise; there's just no logic to it, and it makes people feel horrid. I won't deny that it could simply be a warping of my Law that incited my people to go to war with each other, but I, as the father of my clan, would not only feel compelled to put an end to the war personally, but a responsibility to put an end to the fighting. It is by my own hand that my people are here to war, so I must put an end to the war.

God is no different. He may be an extremely distant father, but he is still THE father of Humanity. It is his responsibility (even moreso because it is claimed that he is omnipotent and omnipresent) as the father of Humanity to put an end to the fighting.

We were created in His image indeed; God is an amoeba Evolution ftw

DISCLAIMER: As to that previous statement, it was simply a joke. I understand that the Catholic Church, as well as other Christian, Jewish, and Islam denominations, support the idea of Evolution.

In answer to part one, who says He doesn't? Look at 'Doctors without Borders'. This is an excellent way for Humans to take the initiative to help those who help others. It is a common mistake for Christians to beg God to help those in need, then never volunteer or donate money. Christians are supposed to be the hands of God. Unfortunately, we sometimes become self-centered and look only after ourselves.

Aye, that is my view of what Humanity SHOULD be as well, but that is optimism to the point of foolishness, I believe. I'm all for hoping that is what humanity becomes, but at this point, humans are far too greedy and selfish to really give a rat's ass about anything but themselves, especially in Western culture. We in Western society are so focused on the idea that making ourselves better will make the world better that we don't stop to think exactly what WILL benefit the world.

This also happens to be strikingly similar to the doctrines followed by Christians. Throughout history, the focus of Christianity has not been to benefit others, only themselves. They enslaved other people to make their lives easier, to use one example. I would never claim that Christians alone are guilty of this, but they are, still, a much more prominent figure in these issues. In fact, the very base of Western laws and culture is Christian law.

Part two: What else do we need? Hearts that can feel compassion; hands that can build, support, write, and give; minds that can problem solve; and wills to strenghten us when it looks hopeless. He's given us all the tools to change the world. Now I'm no idiot. I know that the world isn't going to pull a sudden 180, but that's what resolve is for. I'm an optimist, and I say the future looks bright (expensive, but bright)!

As much as I wish, and hope, that this were true, I don't think that it will happen, for reasons outlined above. Yes, humans have all of that to make others better, but with exception to few people throughout history, the main focus of the human when making extremely important decisions has always been focused on "What will benefit ME the most and make MY life easier." They have the ability to make people's lives better, but when it comes to the more important things that make them choose whether it will detriment their life or that of another, they will choose the other. Logical, but extremely selfish and immoral.

 

[professor13]

No, I never assumed that I knew the rules of the universe, I simply stated that the law of physics that we know denies the actions of the Christ. With current logic (as limited as it may be), it is not possible to form matter in the ways that he did without an extreme tax on one's energy, much less create an entire basket of bread out of thin air. It's the same reason that those idiotic teleporters in Star Trek cannot become a reality - they assume one of two things: that matter can either be created out of thin air at one end of the conduit, or the matter reconstruction requires very little energy to do. Both of these assumptions, strikingly similar to those in the bread-basket miracle of Jesus, are logically faulty. They assume the creation of matter and/or a lack of due energy tax.

Ah, but Star Trek didn't have access to an infinite energy source, aka God . That is not to say that that is the solution to the matter/energy parodox, but it is a possibility that discounts a total contradiction to Christ's actions.

That IS coming from his position. To make a more relatable argument, if I were the father of an entire clan, as you claim God to be to Humanity, I would be sure to aid in teaching them what is shown to be right. Now, I will not be so arrogant as to claim knowledge to the intricacies of ethics and morals, but I do know that intolerance is an abhorrent crime, no matter how many people say otherwise; there's just no logic to it, and it makes people feel horrid. I won't deny that it could simply be a warping of my Law that incited my people to go to war with each other, but I, as the father of my clan, would not only feel compelled to put an end to the war personally, but a responsibility to put an end to the fighting. It is by my own hand that my people are here to war, so I must put an end to the war.

It is not His responibility. Think of the Old Testament as Humanity's school years. During this time, God guided us and gave us moral and ethical codes by which to live by. Returning to the Father metaphor, this was the 'My house, My rules' era. He was shaping a people to be the carriers of His truth. Thus, he played a highly active role in our lives during this time so we would not stray as easily from the path. Then, we reach the New Testament, aka graduation. God gives his parting words through Christ and his parting gift of Salvation. It then became our responsibility, not His, to make our own choices, be they good or bad, and to suffer the consequences thereof. God still sends the occasional 'care package' and we still call him up from time to time (perhaps not as often as I should *cough*), but for the most part, we are our own responsibility. It is by our hand that we wage war, so we must put an end to it.

This also happens to be strikingly similar to the doctrines followed by Christians. Throughout history, the focus of Christianity has not been to benefit others, only themselves. They enslaved other people to make their lives easier, to use one example. I would never claim that Christians alone are guilty of this, but they are, still, a much more prominent figure in these issues. In fact, the very base of Western laws and culture is Christian law.

Not doctrine. C'mon, I already made this point. We have a history of being idiots, but that doesn't reflect what our Father taught us. The church has a really tough time of setting a good example for some reason...

As much as I wish, and hope, that this were true, I don't think that it will happen, for reasons outlined above. Yes, humans have all of that to make others better, but with exception to few people throughout history, the main focus of the human when making extremely important decisions has always been focused on "What will benefit ME the most and make MY life easier." They have the ability to make people's lives better, but when it comes to the more important things that make them choose whether it will detriment their life or that of another, they will choose the other. Logical, but extremely selfish and immoral.

This is true. The majority of us will always say "me first!" Sadly, many of these people hold positions of authority in the church. That is why those of us with talent and and ethical backbone, such as you Hera, are so important to the world! Hera, you are an incredible writer and debater! You also have a strong sense of right and wrong. Please don't give up on the world. The world needs people like you to inspire them to put the needs of others before their own. Even if you never darken the door of a church, you really could be an ethical asset to humanity. All it takes is a love for your fellow human, as much as he/she stinks, and a will to help Humanity help themselves.