Feminism

[Ultimaja]

You've obviously never been a woman, talking the way you are.

Yeah, it's called being a man. And part of being a man is being able to make observation and accountability, something that feminism apparently depraves one of.

 

[Six]

It's misused by people, not just women. Let me just point that out there.

This is why the word was created, a women bash fest. So far for equality? I'm sorry but I'm a firm believer in both sexes having equal rights, and I'm definitely not detached from reality on that.

For those of you who want to say that the word itself is nonsense, you should really read up on it, and know what you're talking about. Because the opinions you're giving here, slamming and bashing the word cause it's negative, you're all misled by people abusing the word, both men and women giving it a bad name.

I thought we all had our own brains, stop being sheep and look the word and it's meaning up. It may open your eyes a little.

And this friends, is why I feel bad for certain groups of men being given a bad name by their own sex. WELCOME TO OUR WORLD OF PMS, etc.

 

[Sheechiibii]

I used to call myself a feminist. I feel very strongly about equality for everyone, and I hate people being treated with anything other than respect and kindness due to a cause that is completely out of their control, like their gender, sexuality or race. For a long time I spent time in feminist groups and truly believed that I was a feminist, and most of the other feminists were radicals. Over time I've realise this is not the case. What feminism used to be - the desire for equality - it no longer is. Feminism is now an excuse for misandry and an excuse for women to blame others for everything. Plain and simple. I wasn't surrounded by radical feminists, I was just surrounded by plain old regular modern day feminists. When people say they are for equal rights for everyone, they are not a feminist, by definition or by the standard that feminism holds today, they are egalitarian. Egalitarian is a term I'd never heard of before, but once I did, and once I researched what it was, I realised that I didn't have to call myself a feminist any more and I didn't have to feel like I was 'wrong' or fighting against the very people I thought shared the same values. Because I didn't share the same values as feminists.

They wanted 'equality' for women, and only women. If it was a problem that hurt anyone else other than women then feminism would still ignore everyone else it happened to and focus solely on the women. If it was a problem that effected only men they would often straight up refuse to believe it was a problem at all, or say that it didn't matter because men are 'privileged'. In fact, any problem that happened to anyone ever, was usually blamed on the 'patriarchy' and so even when women themselves had done wrong, it was still mens fault. This is not the definition of what feminism used to be, but it is cerainly what the majority of feminisms use as the basis for everything they do. Anyone who says they want equality for everyone, if they truly want that then they are egalitarian, not feminist, and they probably just don't understand the difference between prioritizing one gender and revolving the entire cause around them (which in itself is the opposite of equality) and fighting for the rights of everyone, regardless of gender or race or sexuality or anything else a person has no control over.

Just wanted to add since I caught up on the comments and saw a few people talking about humanitarianism. I just want to clear up what humanitarianism is: it's not about equal rights for everyone. Although that can be a part of what some humanists do, humanism is actually a doctrine, like a religion, that is about serving humans instead of gods. Hence why I don't call myself a humanist, I call myself egalitarian, because that is about promoting the equal treatment of everybody.

 

[Six]

A dog doesn't change because people make it out to be a donkey.

Just like the word Feminism, people have tried to twist it, people have tried to shame it, degrade it, all things in the book. The true origin of the word is nothing sexist towards men, nothing degrading towards men, nothing in that sort. The word Feminism would've been better off like Dan called it as Huminism, that way people wouldn't choke on there being "Fem" in it, because THAT must be sexist.

Come on now, guys. Any one here saying all women or all men are innocent clearly need to get checked.

Feminism doesn't lose it's original respect just because people want to abuse it, that says something about the people doing so, not the word itself.

 

[iSmiff]

Feminism doesn't lose it's original respect just because people want to abuse it, that says something about the people doing so, not the word itself.

I think it does a little.. When people use a word so much in a new context of course it can change. If I called you gay you wouldn't be assuming I meant 'happy'

 

[Sheechiibii]

A dog doesn't change because people make it out to be a donkey.

Just like the word Feminism, people have tried to twist it, people have tried to shame it, degrade it, all things in the book. The true origin of the word is nothing sexist towards men, nothing degrading towards men, nothing in that sort. The word Feminism would've been better off like Dan called it as Huminism, that way people wouldn't choke on there being "Fem" in it, because THAT must be sexist.

Come on now, guys. Any one here saying all women or all men are innocent clearly need to get checked.

Feminism doesn't lose it's original respect just because people want to abuse it, that says something about the people doing so, not the word itself.

Actually many times definitions change because of a majority. It happens a lot. The word gay used to mean happy. Now primarily it means homosexual. The word feminist used to mean equal rights. Now it means prioritising women's issues and pretending others don't exist or aren't important or that every issue is a women's issue.

Anyway, I don't know if you were replying to me or not, but if you were then I want to clear something up. I was actually not talking about feminism degrading men or anything of the sort. I was talking about how feminism prioritises women's issues and women's issues alone. Even if it is a cause that men suffer from too, feminism focuses solely on the women's side.

Even if you are to take the very definition, unchanged despite the fact that the majority of feminists do not adhere to it, it is still solely about women. It's about equality for women and women alone. So anyone who wants equality for everyone is not a feminist, they are by definition an egalitarian. That's without even having to see the behaviour and the issues the feminists of today fight for.

It's kind of ironic actually. A few months ago I would have been saying a totally different thing here, I would have been in complete agreement with you and I'd have tried to convince everyone else that being a feminist means being for equality. But back then I was wrong, and I was fighting a losing battle because the truth was I was not a feminist, I never was, and I was trying to convince people that what I believed in was what other feminists believed in, and it's just not true.

 

[Ultimaja]

A dog doesn't change because people make it out to be a donkey.

Just like the word Feminism, people have tried to twist it, people have tried to shame it, degrade it, all things in the book. The true origin of the word is nothing sexist towards men, nothing degrading towards men, nothing in that sort. The word Feminism would've been better off like Dan called it as Huminism, that way people wouldn't choke on there being "Fem" in it, because THAT must be sexist.

Come on now, guys. Any one here saying all women or all men are innocent clearly need to get checked.

Feminism doesn't lose it's original respect just because people want to abuse it, that says something about the people doing so, not the word itself.

The breakdown of the word feminism is 'pertaining to females'.
When the word was brought to life, it was during a time before women suffrage and the like, and people perceived the word in light of that. That doesn't mean that the word is unambiguous, and has no other meaning then 'equality for women'.

It can just as easily simply mean to serve the interests of women.

And it's a redundancy seeing so many men allegedly being 'feminists'. How many white people are in the NAACP? How many of any people are in any specialty group that they are not biologically a part of?
Not many.

But feminism?
It's not hard to see that men are feminists out of inherent adoration for women. It's also why a lot of them have about as much accountability as a bat in a sandstorm- they're only there to please the women, and that is a problem to men collectively because it hinders their own interests.

 

[Six]

@Sheechiibii, no I wasn't, I was talking in general.

I completely understand what you are saying, but I still feel like just because the majority does it because it's popular it doesn't mean the word itself loses respect... Not for me anyway. I still see it as one sex being equal to the other, I'd support the same thing for men, dogs cats, you name it.

The thing is, you have people that shame something, and you have people that respect something, just because the shamers have a more popular group it doesn't automatically make you a shamer.

I strongly believe, and just as well as any of you, this is just my opinion, which I'm not trying to force on anyone, that if you see the word, and use the word in it's respective manner, you give respect to both men and women. You don't favour one by saying one is better, smarter, etc.

I am sorry that people that do use the word in a negative light have ruined it for some of us, and even ruined the beliefs of people or what they stood for. As long as you know it's true, and it keeps it's original meaning, no one can say otherwise, because they're just "slut-shaming it".

@iSmiff, no, when people use a word so much in context, it makes people think it changed, they get used to the imaginary meaning shamers are trying to give it. That's just my two cents on it though. Gay means gay to me, not happy, like Feminism means equal rights, not HUZZAH POWER TO THE FEMALES, SUCK IT MEN!

@Ultimaja, no it is not hard to see men supporting Feminism at all. There are plenty. I wouldn't say the so called "good guys" but the ones that have a pretty solid working brain. (Just kidding, guys!)

But seriously, men who support women not being downed on or degraded, and those men supporting street walks in short skirts, and heels? "She didn't ask for it." yes, those men. All the more power to those men and women who support each other.

Lady POTUS, lol, wtf?

 

[CassinoChips]

It's about equality for women and women alone.

How does this make the slightest bit of sense? To have equality for women, there literally has to be something to which women must equate. The only other option other than woman is man, thus it's the equality of women to men, meaning elevating women's status so that it is equal to men.

 

[Sheechiibii]

@Sheechiibii, no I wasn't, I was talking in general.

I completely understand what you are saying, but I still feel like just because the majority does it because it's popular it doesn't mean the word itself loses respect... Not for me anyway. I still see it as one sex being equal to the other, I'd support the same thing for men, dogs cats, you name it.

The thing is, you have people that shame something, and you have people that respect something, just because the shamers have a more popular group it doesn't automatically make you a shamer.

I strongly believe, and just as well as any of you, this is just my opinion, which I'm not trying to force on anyone, that if you see the word, and use the word in it's respective manner, you give respect to both men and women. You don't favour one by saying one is better, smarter, etc.

I am sorry that people that do use the word in a negative light have ruined it for some of us, and even ruined the beliefs of people or what they stood for. As long as you know it's true, and it keeps it's original meaning, no one can say otherwise, because they're just "slut-shaming it".

@iSmiff, no, when people use a word so much in context, it makes people think it changed, they get used to the imaginary meaning shamers are trying to give it. That's just my two cents on it though. Gay means gay to me, not happy, like Feminism means equal rights, not HUZZAH POWER TO THE FEMALES, SUCK IT MEN!

Sorry I wasn't sure. Like I said though the definition of feminism is about females. I don't want equality for females, I want equality for everyone, because that is what equality should be. By prioritising one gender, feminism is being unequal itself. This was not such an issue when women were very much struggling in a male-dominated and patriarchal society, but that is not the case any more, and while I know there is still not equality for all women, they are not any more worse off than many men, and they are about as discriminated against as certain races, and they are nowhere near as badly treated as people with a sexuality that is anything other than heterosexual. So while once it made sense to specifically target women's issues, in the modern day I don't see how it makes sense to focus solely on women, when really there are so many others with worse problems, or even men with the same problems.

Also your point about gay/feminism doesn't really work because originally the word gay meant happy, and only happy. It changed because so many people used it in a new context. Much like the new way the word feminism is used.

How does this make the slightest bit of sense? To have equality for women, there literally has to be something to which women must equate. The only other option other than woman is man, thus it's the equality of women to men, meaning elevating women's status so that it is equal to men.

Because women are not the only group of people who do not have equal rights. Men don't always have equal rights. Certain sexualities (Re: not straight) do not have equal rights. Certain races do not have equal rights. Equal rights for women is prioritising women's rights, and so is not for equality in general, it is only for equality for women.

 

[Six]

It's all good.

The reason one gender got prioritized, is because the other had a hand held above it's head for a long time. Therefor Feminism means the right to have equality to men. Once you have reached that, it stops there, you don't become better, or superwoman in this case.

 

[iSmiff]

@iSmiff, no, when people use a word so much in context, it makes people think it changed, they get used to the imaginary meaning shamers are trying to give it. That's just my two cents on it though. Gay means gay to me, not happy, like Feminism means equal rights, not HUZZAH POWER TO THE FEMALES, SUCK IT MEN!

Youre proving my point though. Gay meant happy before it meant homosexual . You choose to use it in that way just like many people choose to use feminist in its new meaning rather than it's original one. That's one of the reasons why there's a problem.

 

[Six]

I'm pretty sure the term "Gay" has had two meanings from the start though? Unlike feminism which only changed in the imaginary world of those who abused the word.

 

[CassinoChips]

Because women are not the only group of people who do not have equal rights. Men don't always have equal rights. Certain sexualities (Re: not straight) do not have equal rights. Certain races do not have equal rights. Equal rights for women is prioritising women's rights, and so is not for equality in general, it is only for equality for women.

But.... that's... not the argument women's rights is making. Women's rights specifically refers to women's rights, but it doesn't by its nature exclude other rights movements. In fact, the women's rights movement of the Civil War Era was firmly attached to the African-American suffrage movement. Women figured that if they gave blacks the right to vote, surely the women couldn't be far behind. Except they were, because they were women.

You can be a feminist and a gay rights advocate and a racial equality advocate and a religious tolerance advocate all at the same time. /points to self

Youre proving my point though. Gay meant happy before it meant homosexual . You choose to use it in that way just like many people choose to use feminist in its new meaning rather than it's original one. That's one of the reasons why there's a problem.

By the 14th century it meant "an uninhibited lifestyle" with a heavy connotation of sexual promiscuity/hedonism.

 

[Ultimaja]

Do you even know what breasts are? Breasts on women are just a show of sexual differentiation, and believe it or not, you have breasts too! That's right you modest male, you! Every time you've gone outside without a shirt you have belittled yourself to the less-modest level that all us nasty women are on! Or is it only less modest when the fatty tissue on your breast region are thick?

Your 'balls' (as you so eloquently put it) and penis' only purpose is either to urinate or for sexual reproduction.
On the other hand, the breasts sole purpose is for either breast feeding.... or breast feeding! D: People may view/use them however differently they'd like if the woman so pleases, but it's scientific purpose is to feed our offspring--not to use them as sexual objects. Hell, even back in our earliest of days (thousands of years ago before we were civilized), the female breasts signaled to men that we were ready to bare children, not to satisfy their sexual needs.

That's all just nonsense through and through. It doesn't matter what the practical purposes are of such body parts, they are endowments of men and women- titties and balls.
That is the going rate, and it has been that way forever. A 'private part' is anything that will get you indecent exposure for, even the general concensus of the 1st and 2nd worlds are against you.

Your argument is worthless, and oddly something that has flung right out of the 'feminazi' conventions before. You know, for you to be against them and all.

Why are you looking at 13 year old girls wearing miniskirts?

Why would anybody want people looking at their 13 year old wearing a miniskirt? That's the real question.
Way to dodge the point, by the way. Go figure.

I'm pretty sure the term "Gay" has had two meanings from the start though?

Unlike feminism which only changed in the imaginary world of those who abused the word.

I'm almost sure calling homosexuals gay was a way to amuse the thought of 'super happy men'.

 

[Sheechiibii]

@Six: no gay used to only mean happy. It didn't get adopted to mean 'homosexual' until the 1960s. Before that (for centuries) it only meant carefree or happy.

@Ultimaja: breasts are not genitalia. A man walking around with his balls hanging out is the equivalent of a woman walking around with her vagina on show, not her breasts.

But.... that's... not the argument women's rights is making. Women's rights specifically refers to women's rights, but it doesn't by its nature exclude other rights movements. In fact, the women's rights movement of the Civil War Era was firmly attached to the African-American suffrage movement. Women figured that if they gave blacks the right to vote, surely the women couldn't be far behind. Except they were, because they were women.

You can be a feminist and a gay rights advocate and a racial equality advocate and a religious tolerance advocate all at the same time. /points to self

I didn't say it exclude others rights. I said it was only for women's rights, which is true. While you can certainly be all those things, there is actually a seperate definition for someone who supports the equal rights of everyone, not just women, and that is egalitarianism.

Egalitarianism:
Believing in or based on the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.

Feminism:
The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

 

[Six]

Then on the term Gay I stand correct. I didn't know that, have done my research, I failed.

However, I'm pretty sure the term Feminism is still only "officially" applied to equal rights, not to degrade men.

 

[CassinoChips]

@Six no gay used to only mean happy. It didn't get adopted to mean 'homosexual' until the 1960s. Before that it meant carefree or happy for centuries.



I didn't say it exclude others rights. I said it was only for women's rights, which is true. While you can certainly be all those things, there is actually a seperate definition for someone who supports the equal rights of everyone, not just women, and that is egalitarianism.

Egalitarianism:
Believing in or based on the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.

Feminism:
The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

But by extension, if you're egalitarian aren't you by defintion a feminist? If you believe in equality for everyone, you believe in the equality of the sexes.

 

[iSmiff]

By the 14th century it meant "an uninhibited lifestyle" with a heavy connotation of sexual promiscuity/hedonism.

Hmm. That doesn't mean exclusively homosexual though does it? A third different meaning.. Further proof that words change meaning over time, which is clearly what feminism has done; I'm not disputing the deeper levels of the topic I'm just saying there's a lot of negativity surrounding it because the word has been misused and that in itself is an issue.

 

[Ultimaja]

@Ultimaja: breasts are not genitalia. A man walking around with his balls hanging out is the equivalent of a woman walking around with her vagina on show, not her breasts.

Then go walk outside then without a shirt or bra. Mosey up to the store and buy a Slurpee or something. And when you come back, tell me about how they aren't equivalent.

Breasts are sexual assets. They may not be reproductive, but they are sexual in every other way- it's why they are specific to women.