Feminism

[Sheechiibii]

Then go walk outside then without a shirt or bra. Mosey up to the store and buy a Slurpee or something. And when you come back, tell me about how they aren't equivalent.

That's actually a good example of how not everyone is equal. If you can go to the shops without a shirt on why can't I?

But by extension, if you're egalitarian aren't you by defintion a feminist? If you believe in equality for everyone, you believe in the equality of the sexes.

I'm not an advocate for women's rights. I'm an advocate for people's rights. I don't distinguish whether a person should be treated a certain way because of what is between their legs. For example, when it comes to the issue of rape, I feel very strongly about it and it was an issue that came up a lot back when I used to say I was a feminist and was a part of many feminist groups, and every time it did the fact that women are not the only victims went entirely ignored and any victims other than women were totally disregarded. The idea of finding a way to help put a stop to rape became not about stopping rape, but about stopping men, despite the fact that not all rapists are men. I feel that this and many other issues (including the equal pay issue) are hindered by feminisms total prioritisation of women.

There's also that I feel that what feminism is has changed. I don't think it is about equality any more. I think it is just about helping women, whether they are looking for equality or not. If the majority who call themselves by a label use a different definition, doesn't that definition change? It certainly has in many other cases.

 

[Six]

Men have breasts and nipples too, they walk around shirtless with their nips out, double standard? Feminism needed? I believe so.

 

[iSmiff]

Men have breasts and nipples too, they walk around shirtless with their nips out, double standard? Feminism needed? I believe so.

Women can walk around without a shirt on all they like and will get no complaint from me

 

[Ultimaja]

That's actually a good example of how not everyone is equal. If you can go to the shops without a shirt on why can't I?

That's not a good example at all, that's more like making shit up to feel unequal which is what 98% of feminism is.

 

[Sheechiibii]

That's not a good example at all, that's more like making shit up to complain about which is what 98% of feminism is.

"Making shit up" it's not made up if it actually happens is it? As it happens I have no desire to walk around without a top on, I come from a country where the weather really does not permit that sort of thing. But I get to oggle guys who are shirtless, I mean, I think men are missing out lol

 

[CassinoChips]

The idea of finding a way to help put a stop to rape became not about stopping rape, but about stopping men, despite the fact that not all rapists are men. I feel that this and many other issues (including the equal pay issue) are hindered by feminisms total prioritisation of women.

1 in 6 men have perpetrated or will perpetrate a sexual assault. Women are nowhere near that number. And the argument is actually to no longer teach women not to be raped, but instead teach men not to rape. It's not zOMG MEN ARE ALL RAPISTS; it's no longer allowing people to blame the victim.

There's also that I feel that what feminism is has changed. I don't think it is about equality any more. I think it is just about helping women, whether they are looking for equality or not. If the majority who call themselves by a label use a different definition, doesn't that definition change? It certainly has in many other cases.

Except it hasn't changed. The idiots get the media attention. The vast majority aren't in the extreme.

 

[Sheechiibii]

1 in 6 men have perpetrated or will perpetrate a sexual assault. Women are nowhere near that number. And the argument is actually to no longer teach women not to be raped, but instead teach men not to rape. It's not zOMG MEN ARE ALL RAPISTS; it's no longer allowing people to blame the victim.

Except it hasn't changed. The idiots get the media attention. The vast majority aren't in the extreme.

So those 5/6 men are also rapists? The fact is, women rape too, and men get raped. If the reason rape happened was completely because men have something inside them that makes them do it, then it would only be men who do it. That's not true, which means there is more wrong than just a persons genitals. Instead of blaming the victim, it's about blaming all men. I really don't see how that is any better. In fact I often think it makes the situation worse. Feminism actually argues that women should be careless and should put themselves in dangerous situations, because on principle they should be allowed to. While that's true, there's still a thing called personal responsibility. If you know a neighbourhood is dangerous and there have been a lot of murders there, are you going to go walking alone at night there? If you know you live in a poor area where there are a lot of burglaries, are you going to leave your house unlocked and your expensive car unlocked in the street? If you meet a man who is bigger and stronger than you and he's a stranger, are you going to let him walk you home alone when you're drunk? That's not victim blaming, that's safety. Of course people deserve to be allowed to do whatever they please and not be hurt, but that's not the world we live in, and we have to accept that and try to protect ourselves. Teaching girls not to protect themselves, and teaching all men that they are rapists deep down inside is not helping anything.

We should be fighting against rape. By labelling all men potential rapists, feminism is doing worse than victim blaming. It's labelling all women as victims, and that would include the women who are rapists, and it would include labelling the men who have been raped as potential rapists themselves. How about we just blame the people who actually deserve it? We don't blame people for murder before they've done it. We don't try to teach a certain group of people not to murder.

The vast majority of what I experienced are in the extreme. Not extreme as in "all piv is rape", but extreme as in no longer about fighting equality, but rather about fighting men.

 

[Ultimaja]

1 in 6 men have perpetrated or will perpetrate a sexual assault.

Yeah, what counts as sexual assault these days? You dress in a way that dares men to hit on you, and all you gotta do is act like a victim if you don't like it.

*boom*

Sexual assault.


If you honestly think that 20% of all the damn men in the world are raping women, then you seriously need to just throw away those inept statistics and read some good catholic or something.

 

[CassinoChips]

Yeah, what counts as sexual assault these days? You dress in a way that dares men to hit on you, and all you gotta do is act like a victim if you don't like it.

*boom*

Sexual assault.


If you honestly think that 20% of all the damn men in the world are raping women, then you seriously need to just throw away those inept statistics and read some good catholic or something.

Blaming the victim Exhibit A.

 

[Ultimaja]

Blaming the victim Exhibit A.

It's not blaming the victim, because often times there is no damn victim.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Ultimaja: you're describing sexual harassment, not sexual assault. Unless you meant 'hit on' in a more literal sense.

 

[Shaissa]

With looking through this I can see where this is going, but I shall still give my 10 cents. Yes 10 not 2.

Do females get discriminated in jobs and life in general? Yes. In every part of the world. Because frankly for thousands of years, it was the mans "job" to take care of their family, and the females job was to have kids, get married and take care of the house.

Now for only... less than 100 years in many places of the world, females are able to do more than just have kids and take care of the house. Do some woman abuse this? 100% absolutely. At the same time, men do take advantage of this also. To say that they don't is 100% out right a lie.
With these laws that protect woman, both sides can take advantage of it, whether it is in the courtroom or in ever day situations. It happens.

Now if people wanna be 100% equal in everything then there shouldn't be laws to protect one party or the other. So the "woman equal money" shouldn't be a law cause that shouldn't be an issue... and for Men having to pay the woman and lose his kids. The man shouldn't of expected her to stay home and take care of the kids while he worked...

 

[Ultimaja]

Saying one and six men will sexually assault a woman is nonsense.

It comes from the 'statistic' that 17.6% of all women are victims of either completed or attempted rape.

And that's bullshit. Who would even buy into that? Lay off the statistic sauce.

 

[Shaissa]

Saying one and six men will sexually assault a woman is nonsense.

It comes from the 'statistic' that 17.6% of all women are victims of either completed or attempted rape.

And that's bullshit. Lay off the statistic sauce, there's a million of them out there that will tell something different.

Yet statistics have been proven correct time and time again, granted you do have to take into affect where these studies are taking place... country, and if it is a city or a small urban town... but you do have to take that into effect when reading statics, both men and woman

Also are you saying that there is never no victim? cause I am sure many rape victim would disagree

 

[iSmiff]

Yeah, what counts as sexual assault these days? You dress in a way that dares men to hit on you, and all you gotta do is act like a victim if you don't like it.

*boom*

Sexual assault.


If you honestly think that 20% of all the damn men in the world are raping women, then you seriously need to just throw away those inept statistics and read some good catholic or something.

Eurgh, it pains me to agree but I have to, to a certain degree.I know someone accused of Rape unjustly and it destroyed him, especially knowing he was innocent. He was proven innocent eventually but that's not something you can shake from your reputation, and all the way through the trial he was treated like he was guilty. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply anymore. If he had gone to the police and said he had been raped would they have taken it seriously? I'm unconvinced.


(fuck this thread)

 

[Sheechiibii]

The trouble with rape statistics is the amount of people who do not report it. Then there are the amount of people who make false claims. Then there are the sad reality of people who do not even get believed. We have no real way of knowing any of these statistics, so it's very hard to get any sort of reliable statistic for the actual percentage of rapes that occur.

In my life I know of one person who was raped, and they were not believed and they did not report. I know of 4 cases where there was a false claim made, 3 of which were taken to the police, whether they were recorded or not I don't know but they were all proven to be lies. There's another case where I know someone who I think lied about being raped, but I can't know for sure, but considering they said they'd been raped by a guy who wasn't even in the county at the time, and then changed their story so many times nobody could keep up, I'd say it's a pretty sure thing it was lies.

Now, I'm not in any way saying that this is the norm, at all. But what I am saying is that there were 6 claims of rape there, 3 of which went to the police, and none of those were actually rape. So...how reliable are rape statistics? I can't find them reliable at all.

Just re-reading my comment I know most probably will not believe what I have said, but I swear it is the truth, and it is because of my experiences that I feel so strongly about this subject, and why I got into so many arguments with feminists who wanted to insist that rape is a women-only issue and that rapists are male-only. Some even suggested and sometimes outright told me that false claims do not happen. Well they do. They happened to me.

 

[Ultimaja]

Yet statistics have been proven correct time and time again, granted you do have to take into affect where these studies are taking place... country, and if it is a city or a small urban town... but you do have to take that into effect when reading statics, both men and woman

And what statistics would those be? Is it this one in particular?
Statistics are not collectively substantial, each one can be just as wrong, misleading, right, whatever, as the next.

And whoever buys into the statistic at hand is in need of a real reality check. It's why I don't even use statistics even if it 'defends' my argument, because most of them are just crap.

 

[Shaissa]

And what statistics would those be? Is it this one in particular?
Statistics are not collectively substantial, each one can be just as wrong, misleading, right, whatever, as the next.

And whoever buys into the statistic at hand is in need of a real reality check. It's why I don't even use statistics even if it 'defends' my argument, because most of them are just crap.

Yet you can't just ignore them either. To just say "100% of statics are not accurate" is also misleading. Can't say one without the other.

Also way to ignore what I said about you have to take into effect what country and where it was taking place... should also add who or what group is taking the statics..

 

[Ultimaja]

Yet you can't just ignore them either. To just say "100% of statics are not accurate" is also misleading. Can't say one without the other.

Also way to ignore what I said about you have to take into effect what country and where it was taking place... should also add who or what group is taking the statics..

I'll use statistics, but very rarely. Because in doing so, I also fully orchestrate the odds and ends of the statistic.

For example, with the one brought up on here- I have met quite a few women in my lifetime who have stated they have been sexually abused. And what I mean by a few, I mean a lot.
I would even go as far to say *drumroll* 17% of them.

Do I actually believe all of them?
No.

But these surveys and counselors and whatnot know no difference, they just want to build a case. And they even include the actual cases that go to the justice system. So again, why should such a statistic be considered to have any merit?

 

[Shaissa]

I'll use statistics, but very rarely. Because in doing so, I also fully orchestrate the odds and ends of the statistic.

For example, with the one brought up on here- I have met quite a few women in my lifetime who have stated they have been sexually abused. And what I mean by a few, I mean a lot.
I would even go as far to say *drumroll* 17% of them.

Do I actually believe all of them?
No.

But these surveys and counselors and whatnot know no difference, they just want to build a case. And they even include the actual cases that go to the justice system. So again, why should such a statistic be considered to have any merit?

So you just choose to ignore statistics because you can prove times when they are wrong?

Yet there many many...many times they are right... you can't just ignore them... or say they are wrong... they are statics for a reason.... they need the data to help people... now do people use them for their benefit... in this case Feminism, yes... but you can't ignore that people take advanatage if it either... so it is a lose/lose ignoring or not ignoring it.