What does that even prove? Who told you it has to be mentioned in every Square project to make it official? Who says they even have to supervise him to make it official? You're just putting more criteria to it than what's necessary. He was hired by Square to write in full detail on what happened after Aerith died. He did just that and got approve.
That several of the points she raised are incorrect, explicitly. Implicitly, it can prove other things.
I did not say it had to be. I said it was omitted from two sources where every other source in the compilation was included. This is what is referred to as a telling omission, and dovetails with other points. It is not the crux of my argument.
No one, but she said it was supervised, and she was wrong.
Benny Matsuyama wrote Maiden, which takes place entirely within the timeline of FF7, and ends with Aerith's appearance to the crew at the end of the game. Case of Tifa begins mere hours thereafter.
I'm not looking for more criteria. I note that they've been retconning it all to hell, and generally neglect it, and conclude that what importance it might have had is by now whittled away by being contradicted by games and guidebooks.
Do you have a source to prove this?
How is MOTP being contravened? I haven't seen anything that contradicts the idea that Aeris loves Cloud more than Zack, which is what MOTP states.
In the original game, he simply picks her up, moves her to the side of the stairs, and runs to fight Sephiroth. It's only in CC and LO that they have changed that scene, which contradicts with what was in the original game. Plus LO has been confirmed to be not canon anyway, if MOTP is supposidly "not canon", then why hasn't SE confirmed that also as being not canon?
His own blog. But before all that, as initial claimant, you have your own burden of proof as well. Now, while I go dig up the statement, you dig up where they said he was writing to their standard.
Actually, MOTP contradicts that on its own when everything Aerith thinks makes Cloud unique is the stuff he cribbed from Zack. But I speak of things like the age she met Zack (MOTP says 17. CC says 15), when Hojo died (MOTP says before Sephy died, and aided his cause, Dirge says he held on to life until after Sephiroth's death), and the way the lifestream was led (MOTP says she was aided by a multitude, 10th aniv says she worked alone).
Because the way the scene is selected, you have to neglect Tifa in both battle and Date mechanic. If she is even in your party a little beyond absolute necessity, you're nearly guarunteed to get the date. And I do not speak from theory. I have gotten the High highwind after an Aerith date, and once manually borked around with the values on a save just prior to the scene. It takes very low values to get the low. As you mention Reminiscence, it's worth noting that in it and most shots of gameplay that the sourcebooks use, Tifa is included in the party whenever possible.
I am aware. I am also aware that it is Tifa who expresses interest in going, not Cloud.
And? How does this contradict that it's in reference to fallen comrades, of whom Aerith is a prime example? They're reserving themselves to their fate, not jumping for joy.
Is quoting the Devotioner's spin pages supposed to convince me of anything? In fact, what they translated, outside of the quote- and again, her is an interpolation still- makes no reference to Aerith at all.
In dismantling, when they talk about the process by which the game was developed. And you misunderstand. I never said they didn't go with Amano's art (though he was NOT the designer, Nomura was), I said they are not official. They do not decide pairings. As for why they use them... They're pretty. They LIKE Amano.
It is to some.
She said she loved him in Maiden of the Planet, and it really didn't matter whoever he is.
How does Tifa's insecurities as Cloud retreats into his paranoia shell the same as Aerith never knowing Cloud?
Source?
Yes, now watch for about another minute. You'll see that this is clarified using the fillial examples I spoke of.
You think they give two craps about the LTD? It's a hell of a lot smaller than you seem to think it is. The only reason they haven't said who is canon or not is because they don't plan on handing you the answers on a silver platter. They aren't treating the fans with kid gloves.
Um, the CC version still stands, however, which is why I referenced it. And in the original, he does more than 'move her to the side of the stairs', he places her in an alcove, props her up, and then goes to deal with Sephiroth, who is, yes, still a threat to her. As for LO, it is canon, but the nibleheim sequences are the reports of the turk who was observing, and thus subject to error, thus making them less authoritative than CC. It is still discussed and included in sourcebooks.
Where in the story does it state that Tifa is insecure, and how would you know what the character is feeling at that time?
I don't really see the point when Square Enix have pretty much confirmed this by asking him to write for them, and publishing his work which was to their satisfaction in their offical book.
But that's completly untrue. Aerith knew the "real" Cloud because of her inate ability as a Cetra. Also just because Cloud took some of Zack's traits didn't mean he turned into Zack. He had his own personality, as seen by him being cold and aloof to his team mates when Zack was the complete opposite.
Could I have the quotes that say this, i'm sure it never specified that Aerith was 15 when she met Zack. But I haven't read it for a long time, i'll go re-read.
Aeith's date has been confirmed to be the offical one because her and Cloud had a deal for "one date" as payment. This was also confirmed in an Ultimania.
What's that quote? If it's the one i'm thinking of, I think I can rebuttle it
And? Cloud dosn't need to specificlly say "I can GO meet her there." This is a quote of Sakei who is very adapt with the Japanese language
Japanese loves to imply~ They do not spell out every single thing. They would not say something like "I want to go meet Aerith there, tifa. I think I can meet her there". That is just bad japanese to them. Thats why they omit stuff, to japanese, they dont need to spell everything out becoz they will definitely understand what the other is implying~So when Cloud says そこで…会えると思うんだ (I think i can meet her there), he is expressing his interest to go meet her there which is supported by Tifa's うん、会いに行こう (Yes, Let's go meet her). Her "yes" in that sentences is refering to Cloud's expressing the possibilities of meeting Aerith's "there", then accompanied by Tifa suggesting them to go meet her there. そこで…会えると思うんだ (I think i can meet her there) the "ん" that Cloud use in this sentence is to imply the significance of the possibilities of meeting her there. It shows that being able to meet her there is important to Cloud
It's undeniable~~
Because Cloud is referring to Aerith specifically. If it was just a general "let's go meet our fallen comrades", why only refer to Aerith? Why does Cloud make it so personal...something just between himself and Aerith?
So Amano draws whatever he feels like? Square don't have any input in what he draws for them? And, according to you, even though Clerith is not the pairing, they still used his artwork of Cloud and Aerith because they like him, rather than asking him to draw new artwork of Cloud and Tifa because that is the new couple? I find that hard to belive, I mean, they were paying him, so I think they'd want their artwork to be correct, no?
But that's completly untrue. Aerith knew the "real" Cloud because of her inate ability as a Cetra.
What other reason does she have to ask such a question of the man she considers the father of their family unit and who she is sharing a room with?chance said:
You made the bed. You lie in it.I don't really see the point when Square Enix have pretty much confirmed this by asking him to write for them, and publishing his work which was to their satisfaction in their offical book.
Not according to Maiden she didn't. And if you're referring to the quote I think you're referring to, you're overstating what it says.
And that's completely irrelevant. According to Maiden, the majority of what Aerith saw as unique in Cloud actually came from Zack. By arguing that very little in Cloud was Zack, yet affirming Maiden, you do realize it means she's focusing that much more on the Zack in him, yes?
It seems I was remembering that in error, or read a mistranslated version, as I cannot find that specific statement, though it is worth pointing out that in CC, their relationship is anything but a 'light taste', which makes the statement of such in MOTP most odd, and she is shown visibly reacting to the death of Zack in the ending of CC, so she really ought to know he's dead, unless you subscribe to the denial theory, but few C/A supporters do, and even then, it seems a bit subdued.
Things like Aerith's relationship with Zack, Hojo's death, and the way the lifestream was moved are not small contradictions. Moreover, it's not just the contradictions. It's both them being contradicted so readily and often, along with the non-inclusion of it in the guidebooks where it would be the most relevant. SE has simply given it absolutely zero credit, period, and even BC's jade weapon chapter was considered worthy of the 10th aniv ulti.
Which renders all the original versions of those scenes invalid, yes. MOTP contains numerous contravened scenes, plus being disregarded, etc... As for CoT, Cloud telling Elmyra about Aerith's death is not an explicit contradiction. If it had said that's how she learned about it, then yes, that's a contradiction, but Cloud forgetting that Reeve had told Elmyra is not a continuity error.
Because it's been rather loudly omitted in a book that contains every single other instance of the compilation, including the also contradicted- yet officially rationalized- Last Order. Until this, we were content with keeping what of the novella was possible, but when it was omitted from an otherwise complete listing of events the compilation, it was generally decided that SE had stricken it from the canon.
A deal Cloud never agreed to, and which is irrelevant. As for 'an' Ultimania, which one? I know in the 10th aniv, They show Tifa's date sequence, and in others, they've described the various dates, but which one affirms Aerith as official.
I sorely doubt that. Partly because Rebuttle isn't a word, and Rebuttal is not a verb. However, give it a try. I need a chuckle.What's that quote? If it's the one i'm thinking of, I think I can rebuttle it
You'll forgive me if after Resha, Naru, Chibica, et. all, I'm hesitant to accept this at face value. Furthermore, this is still all interpolation. Dismantling says it refers to meeting fallen comrades. Sakei's little spin doctor assumptions are simply too weak to overturn what is essentially fiat. And yes, the Japanese are often less than explicit, but you're still reading things into the text. If you wish to do this, fine, but do not be surprised or upset when people read things into the game in return.
Because he wasn't. He didn't say anything about Aerith in the original text. Prime source has authority over translations.
Because he doesn't. He just says that despite the answer from the planet, he thinks there will be a meeting in the lifestream. If he was trying to make it personal, if he HAD the intent as you and your weaboo buddy claim, why does he not hop into the lifestream? Why does he LEAVE the crater, and tell Tifa he wants her by his side, then move in and start a family with her?
In a lot of case, yes. But again, you strawman me. He drew concept art. Preproduction stuff. He was not involved in the production process beyond that, and was not there for the later changes to the story. He's also not the actual character designer for FF7. Nomura is.
Actually, I'm saying his art is irrelevant to the coupling. They used pictures of Yuna and Brother for FF10-2, and Squall and Selphy for FF8. They use his art because he's iconic. He's also quite busy. It was not until much later that he drew characters who existed outside of the very early drafts.
I think they'd want their art to be pretty, and represent characters in the game. I think your issue is that you look at his art and see a couple. I look at his art and see the characters from the game. As I've said, Square and SE do not give FF7's love triangle the insane weight you would claim they do. They see it as the sub sub plot, where it should be.
1. Where in the story does it state that she considers Cloud the father of their family?
"It was night and the bar was closed. While cleaning up in the galley, Tifa looked up towards the centre table. There sat the manager of Strife Delivery Service, Cloud and his two assistants, Marlene and Denzel. Denzel often suffered because of Geostigma but on the days when he didn't have a fever or any pain, he would hang around with Cloud. Everyday, Cloud would spend half his day out. So once he was home, it was Denzel's precious time to spend with his hero. Yes, Cloud was a hero to Denzel. Riding on his bike, saving Denzel as he fought with terrors of death when the symptoms of Geostigma erupted... It was everything that Denzel had been yearning for. Denzel wanted to know ask Cloud about everything. He would keep asking Tifa questions that she could answer until Cloud returned home. Once, Tifa half jokingly said to Denzel that she was the one cooking their meals everyday. Denzel also said in an grown up manner that he cleaned the house and the bar everyday too.
She's in there after dark, with Cloud asleep and Cloud accepts this without so much as a raised eyebrow. If she's not literally sharing the room, she's got complete free reign inside it.
That's actually not how you use occam's razor. Even if it were, the razor necessitates a sufficient explanation that fits the data. Knowing why a character asks something is actually quite relevant. What people do is not the whole story. Why is an important factor as well. So, intent from C towards A? Anyone?
I could never understand why you guys keep leaving Barret out of the picture, but point taken. She's still doesn't know wether Cloud loves her or not though.
Did they specify what room it is? Living room?
No not really, that's another question. Which complicates the situation. You said she was insecure, how do you know what she feels at that time?
She's asking if Cloud loves her. That means she wants to know the answer to it. That's Occam's Razor. Whatever she's feeling is secondary and is up to assumptions unless you can provide something that backs it up. I'm talking about how B is the direct effect from A. Not A's intent, since it's N in the equation.ques⋅tion
/ˈkwɛs
tʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation
[kwes-chuh
n] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to someone in order to get information in reply. 2. a problem for discussion or under discussion; a matter for investigation.
