...hahaha

[The Witch]

the advantage of living life as an atheist is that you don't care about sinning, and sinning is undoubtedly what makes things fun. i don't mean like murder and all that, but being 'immoral' as some people would say, is interesting and exciting. i think it's worth risking burning in hell for

Well, honestly, I think you can have just as much fun without sinning.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

If I make a woman pregnant without ever touching her or implanting the 'seed', is this a sin?

 

[The Witch]

I don't know. I'm not God. But I personally don't think it counts.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Awesome.

Cali.

You are pregnant.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

It's got nothing to do with what I believe.
Math is a universal language because the principles and foundations of math are the same everywhere around the world(or universe). Ten plus ten equals twenty if you write it as Arabic numerals 10 + 10 = 20 or Roman numerals X + X = XX. The concept of 20 items is the same no matter where you are in the world or universe.

When I first found out that Math was a universal language(or notation) I was about 11 or 12 and I had watched the Jodie Foster film "CONTACT"--a film where scientist use SETI to find messages from significant lifeforms in the form of prime numbers -- Jodie's character explained other life forms would do so because math is a universal language. I asked my mom and dad how that could be true(I was 11 after all) and they gave me the example that if an "alien" on another planet in a far off galaxy needs to see if they have the same amount of offspring they will use math to do so.

They might have different words, symbols, and systems for their math but it's still math. 1 egg to them will be 1 egg to us. Two space ships to them will be two space ships to us as well. Whether or not they call "two" another word and write it out differently does not matter. Because the aliens will still be using math--proving that math is a universal language/notation. So it's not what I believe. It's what science shows is a fact. If there are intelligent lifeforms out there in other galaxies on other planets they will encounter math one way or another. Whether it's them counting their offspring or getting measurements for their space ships or homes--they will undoubtedly use math to do so.

Just look at animals on earth. If math is a human concept that exists just so we(humans) can make sense of things... then why do mother birds count their eggs? why do mother wolves count their pups?

Any professor in a math course in college will tell you the exact same thing that I am. It is not a belief system... it's a universal language.

its a bold statement to say that any maths or physics professor will tell you that math is discovered therefore there is a god. being able to quantify and calculate is necessary for animals to survive, the fact that we call it maths is irrelevant. the romans had a weak system for calculating and quantifying, the greeks had a better one. birds and monkeys probly have a much more primitive one, but again, it is necessary for them to quantify and calculate to survive. in short im saying that quantifying and calculating is innate in all animals (which would be an argument for evolution). the system by which we do that is different and i am arguing that the system(s) were not created by god and then discovered but they were created by their respective species and cultures. i put it down to your belief because you have to believe that god created everything, and apparently you do

Of course his crucifixion doesn't prove he performed miracles by itself. It proves that he had a criminal act behind his name and that the courts condemned him to the cross to die and pay for his "crimes". That's what that proves. However, the crime he had tagged to him is what tells me he performed miracles.

You say these uneducated peoples of those countries were easy to fool with trickery. You think a man(Jesus) can mislead people with his "tricks". Jesus' miracles or "tricks" include healing a paralyzed man, raising the dead/again/, healing blind and the mute, etc...

Those sorts of tricks are what people followed Jesus for. Those tricks are what won him a large enough following of people to make the empire start to get worried. These people who Jesus' had performed miracles on/with/for didn't know him... so they weren't apart of his "tricks" either. It wasn't like Jesus said "Hey, friend go act like your blind for your whole life so I can trick people into thinking I cured you" What I'm saying is, for Jesus to have successfully played out his trickery it would have to include that he knew the strangers he performed them on... and he didn't know the paralyzed man... the dead son or dead daughter... nor the blind and mute folk he healed.

They saw him perform his miracles and they followed him. Again, during this time, following "tricksters" like you say Jesus could have been is pretty unlikely. Those people knew what it meant to do something like following a new savior--they new the dangers in yet they still followed him. It would take some seriously heavy convincing to get these skeptics and fearful people to do so and do it so boldly against the roman courts.

You can believe that these people were stupid and were easily fooled but I'm going to believe that these people knew what they were risking (knew not to cause a problem or they'd be punished most definitely for it)... in yet they decided to risk their life to continue to follow him. Why? because they had solid reasons to see Jesus as their king of kings.

well thats part of your faith. there is no evidence present for me to believe that, if he existed, he performed miracles. for me it is much more likely that he was a trickster than a performer of miracles. its a bit of a jump for me to say "well people did silly things therefore jesus was the son of god". people do silly things, uneducated people do very silly things. following him because he supposedly performed miracles does not prove that he performed miracles. my point is that you cannot know that phil the blindman wasnt a fake, and while i also cant know that he wasnt genuinely blind i have to think is it more likely that a few people lied or that the laws of the natural world were suspended so that phil would no longer be blind? and for me that does not happen, it happens for you because you accept and believe that supernatural events can occur. i dont believe that if god was as loving and caring as he's supposed to be he would, through his son, cure phil of his blindness, and frank of his deafness, but ignore all the truly unjust things that have happened in the world since then. apart from being (to my mind) improbable to the point of impossibility why would that make sense to anyone?

(And the whole earth darkening during Jesus' death is more than enough proof for me that Jesus was a miracle man. )
Yes I do.
Can you tell me how making a man who had been paralyzed being able to walk again at the sound of Jesus' words can be a trick? Jesus didn't know this man...(nor did he know the others he performed miracles on)... so how can he play his tricks?

on the word of the bible jesus did not know them. on the word of jesus himself. on the word of god - you cannot pull that one on me as you already know i do not believe in god, i do not accept the bible as fact, and while im not sure whether jesus existed or not, im fairly sure he did not perform miracles. the earth darkens at the end of every day - its called night. thats how i would choose to interpret that line from the bible. a nice romatic scene setter in a piece of literary fiction is how i choose to view that and i would invite you to prove that the entire earth fell dark when jesus died. beyond taking a quote from the bible which, if it isnt already clear, i do not consider to be evidence of any sort.

You have every right to that, and I see your point. But I still don't think groups of people would choose death or criminal punishment at the mere rumors of others. It started somewhere.

It is enough proof for me. I can know something and not force it down someone's throat. If I didn't believe in what I was saying I wouldn't be wasting my time discussing it in a spam section on a forum.

Just because I can accept that others don't believe something that doesn't mean I don't wholeheartedly believe in it. It's like you and conor saying math isn't universal and that me accepting your choice in opinion on the matter somehow makes me less sure about math actually being a universal language... when it doesn't. You guys obviously don't believe what I'm saying but I know sure as heck it is. I'm just respecting that I don't have a right to shove anything down someone's throat no matter if it's true or not. It's their decision and choice and I can respect that. So when I say I can understand why something isn't enough for someone that's not me having a lack of assurance in what I'm saying, it's the whole... hakuna matata sort of thing.

if you knew (or thought you did) something wholeheartedly, as i imagine any normal person would, you would not want to have another person telling you that you were wrong, if you felt so passionate about it surely you wouldnt be so submissive when you have someone saying they think youre delusional?

Wrong for me... yes.
I know what you're getting at here. You're going to say how Muslims/Buddhist/others think I'm wrong in my religion just as much as I do about theirs... but so what? It's free will. That means free will to mess up or do something right. I believe that Christianity is the true religion and I pray everyone will one day see the light on their own terms. That might sound corny or crazy or a bit of both to others, but as a Christian it's all I can do. I've got to accept that others have a God given right to free will... whether it's a bad or good choice.

So yes, by my book, they are wrong religions(at least with Scientology and Islam) and I'd be lying if I said I didn't pray for those people of those religions to one day see Jesus as their true savior. Jesus is life and I want everyone to have a chance at eternal life.

My dad doesn't exactly believe in a religion (he grew up in a jehovah witness house though) but I still pray that he'll find a way to God. I'm not disrespecting my father when I pray for him to come to Jesus I'm just praying for the better. You or anyone else may say it's belittling for me to do so to someone else as if they aren't smart enough or whatever... but my only intention in praying for their souls is that I want them to have happiness and a shot at eternal life... whether your Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or Buddhist... if your intentions are pure I see no problem with it. My muslim friends might pray that I become a muslim but I wouldn't take that offensively, it'd show me they care(even if I believed their religion to be wrong).

It's like when someone you know wants to commit suicide and you say to them "I hope you live a long and healthy life"--is that a bad thought even if the other person doesn't want it? No. It's the same for religion. If someone wants to do something positive and wish something good for me, I won't turn it down or take it negatively.

So, Yes. I think their religions are wrong. But that doesn't mean I kick them and force my religion down their throat.

you say about not forcing your belief down other peoples' throats but there you are saying how i have a god given right to free will. i do what i want because i want to do what i want, not because any god has bestowed it upon me. thats not a harmless phrase, im not a puppet, and i dont want your beliefs forced down my throat either.

(I'm not speaking about anyone I personally know here, but more so about debates I've seen over religion.)

We're sort of forced to justify our religion and specifically Jesus. Atheist have this tendency to want to go to any length to disprove a God or religion... and when they beat us over the head about how delusional we are we can do one of two things a.) shrug our shoulders and let them have their opinion or b.) try to inform them why we have faith... both in which atheist get angry about.

i dont think its fair to say atheists get angry about that. if you read what you've just said your two options are to be ignorant. rather than look at what has been presented to you shrug it off. rather than look at what has been presented to you tell people what you believe again.

I have given it thought, Jim. I did not believe in a God or even knew who Jesus was until I was 12 or 13. When I first heard of Jesus I did give it thought. I asked questions and I looked for answers. After giving it thought I felt it was right. Now, 8 years later, my faith is stronger than ever and it's through my faith that I take it as fact.

I can be reasoned with. I'm just not hearing anything conclusive.

Can you assure me 110% that you know for a fact that there is no deity or an after life? No. Just like I can't pin point you to physical/inarguable proof that there's a God. Both are opinions based on faith.

i cannot assure you of that, but ive never claimed to be able to. what i suggested is that i have seen no evidence to suggest that there is a higher being that cares about me or has a plan for the human race. what you present as evidence and say is proof enough for you (and thats fine i suppose) is literally not evidence at all. its either something from the bible or something that you claim to just know or just feel, the former is the equivalent of me saying i know that firebreathing, flying dragons exist and then quoting one of the harry potter books, the latter means nothing for me, because what i "just know" or "just feel" isnt the same as what everyone else just knows and just feels.

It's not fact to you. But it is a fact of life for me. It's fact that I live in the south but just because you don't doesn't mean I don't, right?

It's the same thing.

its not the same thing, because i accept that both north and south exist.

Who has faith in something without holding it as a personal fact? I get what you're saying and I guess I'm doing a poor job expressing my answer on a forum. I've seen miracles and it's that reason I see it as fact. The faith factor comes in with the part of the whole debate about being able to physically prove God--that we need faith for. But once you have that faith you take it as a fact.

if its a fact then you dont need to call christianity your faith anymore. you can call it your ultimate truth. if you KNOW god exists then you dont have to believe he exists, because he exists. you cant not believe in apples. because they exist regardless of whether you believe in them or not. they are part of our reality.

Say I have faith in my boyfriend that he'll never cheat on me, we end up getting married and growing old together and as it turns out he never ever cheated--that's faith & fact.

he didnt not cheat because you had faith he wouldnt. the fact that you believed he wouldnt isnt relevant. it didnt become true because you believed it. and if you knew absolutely, 100% knew that he would not cheat you would not have had to have faith that he wouldnt.

I don't know, Jim. That's for God to know. It's His job, he'll judge your heart. I can't condemn you to hell solely because you don't believe in God--because, I'm a sinner by the bibles standards as well and I have no right to cast the first stone.

I hope you'll be in heaven, though.

thats not what i asked. i want to know what you believe will happen to me. what does you god say will happen to me?

Can I ask you a few questions? I know this has been questions for me but I just wanna ask a few things. Of course, if you don't want to that's just fine.

absolutely. youve answered all my questions, even when i got a bit aggressive, my pal!

Let's say there isn't a God and every religion is wrong--what harm does believing in an afterlife do to me?

So I go thinking the rest of my life that there's an afterlife and when I die there ends up being nothing... so what? As long as I didn't commit mass murder to prove a religion or harm others verbally/physically... why does it matter if I went to my death bed believing it? If someone wants to have a happy ending in their mind, let them die with it don't stomp on them. It's like looking in the eyes of your war pal and knowing s/he's gonna die... what do you say? Try and comfort them... or give them the brutal scary truth? Most people will choose the comforting one. If there isn't an after life... why does everyone who doesn't believe in one have to make everyone else see it their way too?

theres nothing wrong with wanting a happy ending and if you enjoy wishful thinking thats fine. Im partial to a bit of it myself, but i don’t live my life by it. I try to live in the real world as much as possible. I would be offended if my war buddy expected me to give him the happy ending story. If he asked me what i thought would happen to him i’d tell him i didn’t know for sure but i would imagine he was going to die and rot in the ground, and if he was truly my pal he would share a laugh about that. i know it wasn’t part of the question but i think this is where the need or the want for a god and an afterlife comes in. people are scared of dying and they want there to be something more because they cant imagine not being able to imagine or theyre scared they might go to a place that isn’t the best. i don’t happen to believe theres a life after this one, but if there is when i die itll be a pleasant surprise. i’ll live it just live im living this one and make the cunts regret making an eternal jim.

Another question...
After you've lived a very long and healthy life, you pass over--and to your surprise there you are at gates of Heaven and you're in the presence of the highest judge of all--God. What do you do?

Honestly think about it.
Between the two choices, being an atheist or religious person has two "bad" outcomes at the end of your life, one outcome is worse than the other.

see my answer above. i think that covers it adequately. i’d be a bit miffed tbh, but i wouldn’t feel bad for saying i didn’t believe in it. because i’d still feel there was no sufficient evidence to suggest it existed.

Live a life as a religious person and the worse thing that happens at the end of your life is that you don't get the afterlife because it's "not real"(but then again what do you care... you're dead and have no thinking mind anymore so you can't comprehend the lie you lived.) So virtually, there's no negative for living religiously while alive.

However, live a life as someone who doesn't believe and you die...you get judged.

At least if you live as a religious person you stick to the safe side and lose nothing... as apposed to the atheist view; you're out of luck in both instances if there is or isn't a God.

Believing in a God is a win-win whether it's true or not. Being an atheist is a lose-win--are those odds you'd like to take?

it is an offence to the tooth fairy, to the unicorns, to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, to pinocchio, to the bogey man, to allah, shiva, krishna and everything else i say i do not believe in. wishful thinking yes, but very specific, cherry picking wishful thinking. if i cannot believe in the tooth fairy, i cannot believe there is a god who created everything and has a plan for me and loves and cares about me. its not a win win situation for me, because to believe in something “just in case its true i’ll get something good when i die” goes against who i am. i have my beliefs based on what i am experiencing and have experienced in the real world, to ignore that would be to ignore myself and my opinion of myself is more important to me than whether or not a heaven or a god exists. after all, there’s always a hell, if god is feeling particularly loving and caring maybe he can send me there.

 

[moogling]

Wouldn't the Christian god be pretty pissed off at me if I believed in Allah? Provided Allah is really satan and practicing Islam is "living religiously"

 

[Donald Trump]

Christians believe in Satan, they just don't worship him. Unless they are witches, then they should be executed.

 

[Marquis of Granby]

hal http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/showthread.php?t=51110

 

[The Witch]

Awesome.

Cali.

You are pregnant.

Who would be the father?

Also, I'm answering everyone in my next post. So if you weren't serious in your questions say so now before I type up another tl;dr

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

 

[Will Graham]

Deuteronomy says stoning for sinners is a must, and Jesus was against it

Both things are stated in the bible, how do you choose which to follow?