Have you noticed?

[L]

Yeah in our society it's wrong to do alot of things, but people still do this. Isn't one of the lessons these games teach us is to rebel against unjust laws and to fight for what's right for everyone?

You've entirely missed the point of my post.

Games are not reality.

Things that are present in our reality may not be present in games.

 

[HighwindPilot]

No gays? Here's a small list for your thoughts: Cloud (spikey metro-sexual hair), Sephiroth (bondage slave outfit), Squall (whiny emo), Tidus (belly shirt...nuff said), and Vaan (every god forsaken thing about him). I think Square makes plenty of homosexual characters maybe no lesbians, but they definitely support the gay community.

Metrosexual is just that, metrosexual. Squall's not emo, and I don't see how either that or "whiny" would qualify him as gay? That's like saying a gay man that's tough and abbrasive isn't actually gay. Lastly, an outfit is just that, an outfit. At least three of the characters you mentioned had some kind of romantic feelings for or relationship with women.
-

Anyway, of course Square's not going to have gay main characters. Why? Because it's likely always going to stir up controversy, and I'm sure they'd really rather not deal with the backlash of that (can you imagine some conservative household filing a lawsuit against them for exposing their child to homosexuality? I can.)

I don't mind if they include a gay character, but like Argor, I don't want them to have to bend over backwards for the character. If it becomes a disruption to the plot, or they go out of their way to have him/her say "gay" things, it'd be stupid.

 

[CassinoChips]

I think the main reason not to would be that it just won't contribute much to the story to go out of there way to explain that a character is homosexual.

The story doesn't have to go 'out of its way' to explain if a character is heterosexual. There are ways to reveal information about characters without blatantly saying 'This guy is gay.'

If it was a supporting hero who was homosexual how would they display this through the game? I know there are many ways but it doesn't make sense for them to do it solely for being statistically accurate.

The same way you display the sexuality of heterosexual characters throughout a game. Allude to a previous relationship that was disrupted by certain important events, for example.

There are not many native american characters either. So the only way to go about it is to put it in as just some random thing which doesn't make much sense to do in every game.

There aren't many Native Americans in Japan. But there are quite a few gays and lesbians in Japan.

Moreoever, Red XIII's character has a distinctly Native American feel to him.

So from a business perspective putting it in most of the game just doesn't make sense. They either lose money or time, and loss of time is loss of money to them.

It's an aspect of a character's background. It's no different than making them Al Bhed, or from Nibelheim, or whatever else. It doesn't have to be a major story arc, because it shouldn't be.

 

[Catnip]

Well Brother's an incest, so they have that covered.

I'm not a HUGE OMFGZ!!1!! fffag but I don't recall any homosexual characters.

 

[Apparent Amarant]

It's an aspect of a character's background. It's no different than making them Al Bhed, or from Nibelheim, or whatever else. It doesn't have to be a major story arc, because it shouldn't be.

If it will turn fans off then it makes no business sense. That's really all there is to it. Capitalism and fair have nothing to do with each other. Until they are marketing it towards a gay audience it doesn't really make sense, because they are trying to market to the majority no include a minority. I'm sure they will eventually have a gay character, but they aren;t going to go out of their way for something that will not draw extra money in. They are a company whose sole purpose is to maximize gain.

The same way you display the sexuality of heterosexual characters throughout a game. Allude to a previous relationship that was disrupted by certain important events, for example

They almost never allude to previous relationships. They usually only use current ones. Even in FFVIII Rinoa and Seifer were a current relationship during the game. If it's a current thing then it will have a big impact on the overall story. The only one I can think of is Zack and Aerith which would not have had the same impact if it was a homosexual relationship because people wouldn't have become as attached to the games and it would have completely changed the game. Also if they planned on doing spin offs in advance then it would actually be a main part of the story for Crisis Core. Basically the most popular FF of all time would have been the least. Maybe the do in the earlier games before VI.

Moreoever, Red XIII's character has a distinctly Native American feel to him

So the only Native American is a feline? I don't think he is Native American at all. Just because he has a feather doesn't make him Native American. Apart from that the only similarity is the music played in cosmo canyon. A cat with a feather is a terrible attempt at a way to portray an entire race.

There are plenty of people left out of FF as main character. Homosexuals definitely arent the minority thats been left out the most. If there wasn't a single white man I would still play it. I still played San Andreas. I'm not against there being one in the game. I'm all for equality. I just don't think this really matters. It's not going to change societies perception that being gay is wrong. That will happen over time and already has made progress and continues to.

 

[.A N G E L .]

Barbariccia from FFIV was also rumored to have a crush on Kain, think it says in the Japanese translation Barbariccia fancies Kain but Kain is uninterested because of Rosa..
But have no proof to back that up, expect she maybe be possibly Bi- Sexual..

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Sabin from FFVI.. Sabin is rumored to be a gay character that is apart of the main team and almost one of the main characters ( or a brother of one, Edgar ) there is hints throughout the game that Sabin Figaro * could* be possibly Gay. Like he likes to be called a Bear, and he enjoys collecting China plates and flowers and the fact that he seems be unaffected by the woman in the Bar while Cyan in the other corner is trying to escape while blushing a deep red pink. =3

Cloud is probably Bi and sometimes wonder about Bartz from FF V.

 

[Dionysos]

I think sexuality differs from racial representation anyway.

I'm guessing the reason they don't touch on it a lot is because they don't want to confuse teenagers about their own sexuality. With some people sexuality can be seriously confusing, people might not know what they are and it can lead to depression, and some people might have doubts about their sexuality for a large portion of their life. So I think part of the reason they avoid putting things like this in is not because they're deliberately trying to avoid representing homosexuals, but more because they don't want to add content to a confused teenage boy / girls mental battle.

Then again... I look at Japan and see all sorts of content that would be adding to many kinds of mental battles in many peoples heads.

So it's touchy. I do believe it wouldn't be a bad thing if they decided to add homosexuality, I just think they might be a bit concerned about that.

On the whole, I don't think sexuality is that relevant for an FF game though. Love relationships only really happen between the lead roles anyway, and the leads are usually created to appeal to the majority of players, and perhaps a few other characters who either have stories of past loves (Freya + Sir. Fratley, Lulu + Chappu, Vincent + Lucretia, Locke + Rachel etc) or have a kind of family love (Barret + Marlene, Strago + Relm, Sazh + Dazh). Perhaps for these supporting leads then a homosexual relationship could be slotted in, so long as (like the other kinds of relationship) they build up a strong storyline for it.

 

[LittleMissDismissed]

Metrosexual is just that, metrosexual. Squall's not emo, and I don't see how either that or "whiny" would qualify him as gay? That's like saying a gay man that's tough and abbrasive isn't actually gay. Lastly, an outfit is just that, an outfit. At least three of the characters you mentioned had some kind of romantic feelings for or relationship with women.
-

Anyway, of course Square's not going to have gay main characters. Why? Because it's likely always going to stir up controversy, and I'm sure they'd really rather not deal with the backlash of that (can you imagine some conservative household filing a lawsuit against them for exposing their child to homosexuality? I can.)

I don't mind if they include a gay character, but like Argor, I don't want them to have to bend over backwards for the character. If it becomes a disruption to the plot, or they go out of their way to have him/her say "gay" things, it'd be stupid.

They never directly imply the fact that Cloud was involved with women and I saw Squall and Rinoa more as biffles rather than lovers. Square doesn't imply these things so the characters can be more of a blank palette and easier for the player to relate to. I saw them more as homosexuals making a difference in the world, rather then metro-sexuals with self-control. To me the outfits gave me the feeling they had other "urges", but that's just my opinion. And a serious hetero romance in game is just as disruptive as a homo romance to a plot, so one is a little more shocking but they both would have equal amounts of interruptions.

Ok so maybe I stereotyped it a bit for those characters, but other characters whom I thought were homosexual was Auron, Zell, Vincent (he never made a move on Seph's mom and "trapped in a coffin" come on it's obvious), and Firion, some of those characters aren't girly or dress metro. Honestly I played through all those games just fine thinking some of the main characters were homosexual and I took the plots seriously.

 

[Apparent Amarant]

They never directly imply the fact that Cloud was involved with women and I saw Squall and Rinoa more as biffles rather than lovers. Square doesn't imply these things so the characters can be more of a blank palette and easier for the player to relate to. I saw them more as homosexuals making a difference in the world, rather then metro-sexuals with self-control. To me the outfits gave me the feeling they had other "urges", but that's just my opinion. And a serious hetero romance in game is just as disruptive as a homo romance to a plot, so one is a little more shocking but they both would have equal amounts of interruptions.

Ok so maybe I stereotyped it a bit for those characters, but other characters whom I thought were homosexual was Auron, Zell, Vincent (he never made a move on Seph's mom and "trapped in a coffin" come on it's obvious), and Firion, some of those characters aren't girly or dress metro. Honestly I played through all those games just fine thinking some of the main characters were homosexual and I took the plots seriously.

Squall nor Cloud were metro in the original games. Squall definitely implies he loves Rinoa and I think you are probably the only person in the world who says he doesn't. He comes very close to telling her a few times and then stops him self. It's painfully obvious.

To the bolded part. No one said the plot wouldn't be able to be taken seriously, but you only thought those characters were homosexual in the games because you wanted to. None of them were, and there was really no evidence for any of them being homosexual. If they were that would be fine, and if in your game when you are playing through it you like to imagine them be that's fine too. The thing is though most of them have hints to the fact that they are in fact straight in the games.

The main reason they probably don't have a ton of homosexuality in the game is because the story writers probably just haven't written it in. They aren't going to look at the story after they've written it in and say "oh man we forgot to include homosexuals in out story" and then change the story to include them because it really shouldnt even matter whether they are or are not in the game.

When they create the story I'm sure they don't say "ok guys lets make sure no one feels left out". Maybe they will get boycotted soon like Avatar did.

 

[bequiaboit]

But if they did declare a character gay, what good does that do to the storyline? Why would they go through the trouble of introducing a gay character? So there can be more variety in the myriad of characters?
I just can't see why they would do that and I would never do that if I were a developer of a video game. I would be busy improving the graphics or storyline or battle system.

 

[CassinoChips]

I went to a funeral yesterday, and was talking to my girlfriend's college roommate, who is currently in Japan teaching English to students there. We were talking about something completely unrelated - a J-pop band, if memory serves - and she was saying that in Japanese culture, it is a huge stigma to openly discuss one's homosexuality. I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that Japan is not the most tolerant of cultures.

But, to sum up, there's the most likely reason they don't/won't have an openly gay character. It's wildly taboo in the Japanese culture.

 

[LittleMissDismissed]

Squall nor Cloud were metro in the original games. Squall definitely implies he loves Rinoa and I think you are probably the only person in the world who says he doesn't(didn't know I was that unique, pretty sure I wasn't the only one). He comes very close to telling her a few times and then stops him self. It's painfully obvious(close doesn't cut it in my book).

To the bolded part. No one said the plot wouldn't be able to be taken seriously, but you only thought those characters were homosexual in the games because you wanted to. None of them were (and to your bolded part I have to say that is a very close minded asumption), and there was really no evidence for any of them being homosexual (I beg to differ). Blah blah the entire bottom section was a recap of the top.

The main reason they probably don't have a ton of homosexuality in the game is because the story writers probably just haven't written it in (of course that's for the player to decide). -The sentence formerly here was denial- When they create the story I'm sure they don't say "ok guys lets make sure no one feels left out". Maybe they will get boycotted soon like Avatar did.

Ok, I see what you're saying about Cloud and Squall not being homosexuals (don't agree but I understand), but you seriously don't think they are metrosexual? It's really one or the other for some of these guys...And Squall never said anything about "loving" Rinoa directly, I mean even at the dance he was leaning on the pillar like his life depended on it when she asked him to dance. Also the fact that he never said that loved Rinoa made me believe he was homosexual even more than I already did, but again that's just my opinion of how Square never actually forces a sexuality on a character...Except for some of their older stuff, like FF4 and FF6, but that's beside the point. I see Square's characters more as clean palettes for the user's imagination.

 

[Apparent Amarant]

Ok, I see what you're saying about Cloud and Squall not being homosexuals (don't agree but I understand), but you seriously don't think they are metrosexual? It's really one or the other for some of these guys...And Squall never said anything about "loving" Rinoa directly, I mean even at the dance he was leaning on the pillar like his life depended on it when she asked him to dance. Also the fact that he never said that loved Rinoa made me believe he was homosexual even more than I already did, but again that's just my opinion of how Square never actually forces a sexuality on a character...Except for some of their older stuff, like FF4 and FF6, but that's beside the point. I see Square's characters more as clean palettes for the user's imagination.

A lot of straight men act the way Squall did. Secluded and self motivated. He wasn't metro either. He didn't dress metro, you never see him apply make up or shave for that matter. In fact you never once here him mention that he cares about his outward appearance. Someone who is metro dresses, and acts feminine. They also take care of their hygiene in a feminine way. Squall doesn't do any of those things.

It seems like you think every guy who doesn't act like a lust driven player is homosexual. They certainly aren't. If you think Squall didn't love Rinoa you are missing one of the most important parts of the game. If you think that Squall being a homosexual wouldn't have taken away from the plot of FFVIII I have to disagree. The fact he came to love Rinoa is what drives the story after a certain point. It have nowhere near the impact on most players if it was a platonic love.

Zell also has a woman in his love. There is a side quest called Zell's love quest and she is female.

Trying to call Squall a clean palette is a really big reach and I think Cloud is too. Just because a guy shows emotion doesn't make him homosexual or metro. That's not part of either of the definitions of those terms.

This is the definition of metrosexual- a heterosexual male who has a strong aesthetic sense and inordinate interest in appearance and style, similar to that of homosexual males.

Thats the definition copy and pasted from dictionary.com. Neither of the characters in question really show too much of an interest in their outward appearance at all.

 

[LittleMissDismissed]

A lot of straight men act the way Squall did. Secluded and self motivated. He wasn't metro either. He didn't dress metro, you never see him apply make up or shave for that matter. In fact you never once here him mention that he cares about his outward appearance. Someone who is metro dresses, and acts feminine. They also take care of their hygiene in a feminine way. Squall doesn't do any of those things.

It seems like you think every guy who doesn't act like a lust driven player is homosexual. They certainly aren't. If you think Squall didn't love Rinoa you are missing one of the most important parts of the game. If you think that Squall being a homosexual wouldn't have taken away from the plot of FFVIII I have to disagree. The fact he came to love Rinoa is what drives the story after a certain point. It have nowhere near the impact on most players if it was a platonic love.

Zell also has a woman in his love. There is a side quest called Zell's love quest and she is female.

Trying to call Squall a clean palette is a really big reach and I think Cloud is too. Just because a guy shows emotion doesn't make him homosexual or metro. That's not part of either of the definitions of those terms.

This is the definition of metrosexual- a heterosexual male who has a strong aesthetic sense and inordinate interest in appearance and style, similar to that of homosexual males.

Thats the definition copy and pasted from dictionary.com. Neither of the characters in question really show too much of an interest in their outward appearance at all.

I never said anything about the amount of lust required to be hetero, what I meant was that if they "love" these women so much how come they don't outright say it or at least imply it a LITTLE.

Cloud never said anything about ever wanting to be in a relationship with women unless you made him I.E

Tifa:

Did you sleep well last night Cloud?

Cloud:

Next to you, who wouldn't

Barret's snoring kept me up all night (Sorry I was paying too much attention to Barret to actually sleep)

Also, don't forget the date with Barret in Gold Saucer

And still I still see Rinoa as Squall's biffle rather than lover and what you said about straight men acting like Squall applys the same to some gay men (gay people don't have a set persona you know). I got the "trapped in the closet" feeling from many of the guys I wasn't influenced by how much lust they had for women, to me they just gave off that type of persona. Squall's journey with Rinoa to me was a quest of undying friendship and also the Zell side quest was just that A SIDE QUEST, I never took it into the story's consideration. Personally I thought he had more of a connection with Raj or Seifer, I thought that girl was so bland.

For the metrosexual comment you put in there, you ever see how much Cloud flicks his hair or does that one pose? Squall does the same thing as well, also their styles show that they are definitely some sort of "fashionistos". (Yes Cloud wears a uniform, but the undercover women mission shows he definitely knows a thing or two about fabulous styles) Come on if you think they're hetero you have to admit that they act a bit femme.

 

[Apparent Amarant]

I really didn't agree with any single thing you said at all but that's ok. No point in saying my opinion on it because I don't we are going to be getting anywhere. You're entitled to you opinions and to interpret things how ever you want. I'm pretty sure you could find information coming straight from Square saying you are wrong if you looked though.

 

[Stoic Hero]

Cloud homosexual? Hahahahahaha. Tell that to Tifa, since they slept together under the airship and started their own family in Advent Children. Also, Squall is no way in hell homosexual. There's no reference anywhere at anytime in the game to Squall even remotely liking males. In fact, most of the males in the game are his rivals/enemies, or he's annoyed with them. The only two people he shows any interest in at all are Quistis and Rinoa, and in the end he falls in love with Rinoa. Have you played VIII? He nearly dies trying to get to her in space. He gives her his ring. He rescues and embraces her before she could be locked up. You don't know what you're talking about, man but keep your opinion if it makes you feel better.

I don't care whether there are homosexual characters or not, just not the main character, please.

 

[Rorolina Frixell]

Technically it was more a relax than anything, though Cloud and Tifa didn't do 'anything' together, and the family thing was essencially a small orphanage and Cloud was away most of the time anyway.

And I agree about Squall, he shows far too much (though vague at times) interest in women to be homosexual, in my eyes. And i've never felt any of the other characters have been homosexual either. Zidane would probably be the furthest things, since being a ladies man was part of his appeal

 

[Stoic Hero]

Technically it was more a relax than anything, though Cloud and Tifa didn't do 'anything' together

Then please explain why Tifa fell out in the floor embarrassed when Barrett mentioned they saw what went on? And, to further this, in an interview the creators joked that they had originally planned for Cloud and Tifa to appear out of the chocobo's stall together. Yes, something did happen.

 

[Cricket]

I haven't really played enough to notice any of this. But that thing with Cloud sounds hot! I wouldn't mind seeing more male flirts with male in FF!

What?! Now you're saying I can't dream?!

 

[Rorolina Frixell]

Actually, it depends on your 'affinity' to Tifa.

Low afinity makes her say 'you were listening!?'

High affinity makes her say 'you were watching!?'

However, as far as we see it, they merely laid in the moonlight, talking about the past etc, perhaps she was embarrased because of that? Plus, sex on the jagged rocks? Sounds painful