Stoic Hero
The Leading Man
Regardless, they shared their feelings for each other. Which makes Cloud not gay.
Have you noticed?
- Thread starter Exoskeleton
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I wasn't saying he was xD I was justmaking my point clear on him. Besides, if him and Tifa 'did' anything, it'd just screw up why Cloud becomes so depressive in Advent Children, geostigma aside 
But ya, it's made clear he has incredibly caring feelings towards Tifa and Aerith throughout the game, yet nothing like that for the male characters, and if there is it's not the same strength as Tifa's and Aerith's.
But ya, it's made clear he has incredibly caring feelings towards Tifa and Aerith throughout the game, yet nothing like that for the male characters, and if there is it's not the same strength as Tifa's and Aerith's.
HighwindPilot
White Mage
What? His entire past with Tifa is one giant implication. They did every possible thing to tell you he likes/loves her without actually saying it. What's the alternative? He wanted to be her best friend? But then you have things like:
"......I was devastated. ......I wanted to be noticed."
"I thought if I got stronger I could get someone to notice........." - Cloud
"Someone has to notice you...? ......who?" - Tifa
"Who.........? ......You know who! ......You, that's who." - Cloud - (Disc 2)
Or singling her name out with his town and mother when he
stabbed Sephiroth.
Why did Zack, who seemed to be his closest friend, not receive the same treatment if Tifa wasn't someone special to him? He longed to be with her growing up.
And yet their entire relationship was a subplot of the game. Which is more likely:
Square paying so much attention to detail on the interactions and dialogue between an anti-social, closeted, gay man and his new BFF? Or Square focusing in on the interactions and dialogue between an anti-social tough guy and his new found love?
You mention relatability, so let's apply this same idea to the above. While some dialogue or interactions in their respective relationships can be perceived as a feed to friendship, the more likely interpretation is of love and intimacy, because the norm of society is that comments like the excerpt above are idealistically towards a love interest. Knowing this, Square is likely to have the same intent, given that productions often look for relatability and believability in things like that. They even enforce this by having characters react to the relationships similarly:
"I never imagined you two would end up together. I mean... You guys are complete opposites. So I didn't think Rinoa's straight-forward approach would work. I'm glad I was wrong!" - Selphie (@ Edea's)
Neither relationship is or should be an interruption. If anything, like in VIII, it'd be a subplot. The comment about it becoming an interruption was based on the idea that they'd go out of there way to remind us that the character's gay.
It seems like you're grasping to try and find gay aspects about them.
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Apparent Amarant
Blue Mage
I wasn't saying he was xD I was justmaking my point clear on him. Besides, if him and Tifa 'did' anything, it'd just screw up why Cloud becomes so depressive in Advent Children, geostigma aside
But ya, it's made clear he has incredibly caring feelings towards Tifa and Aerith throughout the game, yet nothing like that for the male characters, and if there is it's not the same strength as Tifa's and Aerith's.
What happens in Advent Children really has no bearing on what happens in VII the game because VII was made well before Advent Children and I'm sure the story hadn't been written yet. They don't always make things tie together perfectly, but that doesn't mean anything.
I don't think it would screw up why Cloud became so depressed anyway. Cloud and Aerith didn't really have a relationship or anything so a lot of people in that situation would still be "doing something" with Tifa. They may not be in the state to actively pursue it, but she seems like the type who is willing to come on to the man as well.
It doesn't really matter if anything happened or not though, and I'm not saying something did.
LittleMissDismissed
Chocobo Breeder
That flashback probably was one of the biggest influences to me thinking Cloud was gay, to me it looked like a "if women won't like me, I won't like them" kind of persona. Also let me just say Tifa was shallow as hell, she only liked Cloud when he became a stud, in my opinion Zack had much much much more of a loving relationship with Cloud. That scene still doesn't put a direct implication of loving women in the present and only strengthens that "trapped in the closet" persona I see in Cloud. Also, Cloud only just met Zack and he was friends with Tifa since childhood it makes perfect sense that Zack didn't get the same treatment as Tifa.
Also don't forget the whole relationship aspect in FF7, they let you pretty much choose who Cloud liked the most by frequently talking to them (Aeris, Yuffie, Barret, Tifa) it's very safe to say love didn't play a major part in FF7 at all...So why is it wrong for me to perceive Cloud as gay? It appeared to me vengeance and honor were the main themes of the entire game.
As for Squall and Rinoa, I still see them as biffles...I understand everything in the plot, but they never connected to me. I may be missing some important point, but I'm just gonna say you ever see the relationship between a girl and a (not obnoxious) gay friend? When they act all closet like Squall it's just so cute, which is why I can see their "strong relationship" as just a friendship.
Finally, not once did I imply that Square wrote down every single detail to make these characters "closeted gay men", I've been trying to explain how they don't imply any major sexuality on ALL their characters (stating that some do have a set sexuality), I would think they would want their characters to be a little more universally relatable...Basically if you think a character is gay that's cool, if you think they're straight that's cool too.
I'm not trying to find any gay aspects if anything I'm trying to find what makes them automatically straight...Why do people get so touchy on this kind of stuff?
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I'm really failing to see why people think Squall is gay?! I mean, when does he ever show any affection towards the male characters in FFVIII?
And, the ending sequence to the game shows Squall and Rinoa kissing, I think that should give it away that they're together. It doesn't matter that he never says he loves her, I mean, all Final Fantasy characters seem to have an aversion to the 'L' word, and nobody will say it to anybody else. Even Zidane and Garnet won't tell each other they love each other, and this is the most obvious FF couple ever :3
As for Cloud, well, I can see (sort of) why he could be percieved as gay, but I definitely think he is straight. The fact that he is living with Tifa in AC says that he feels strongly for her, and the whole thing with Cloud being ashamed of not making it into SOLDIER because he wanted Tifa to notice him, kind of tells me that he likes her. Not Zack. But, it's a matter of opinion, and how you percieve the character's actions, I suppose.
And, the ending sequence to the game shows Squall and Rinoa kissing, I think that should give it away that they're together. It doesn't matter that he never says he loves her, I mean, all Final Fantasy characters seem to have an aversion to the 'L' word, and nobody will say it to anybody else. Even Zidane and Garnet won't tell each other they love each other, and this is the most obvious FF couple ever :3
As for Cloud, well, I can see (sort of) why he could be percieved as gay, but I definitely think he is straight. The fact that he is living with Tifa in AC says that he feels strongly for her, and the whole thing with Cloud being ashamed of not making it into SOLDIER because he wanted Tifa to notice him, kind of tells me that he likes her. Not Zack. But, it's a matter of opinion, and how you percieve the character's actions, I suppose.
ScratchCardGlory
Ambush Reality
Does Clouds cross-dressing count?
*Mod Edit: Please try and put more effort into your future posts. Thanks.
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*Mod Edit: Please try and put more effort into your future posts. Thanks.
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HighwindPilot
White Mage
How?
Cloud and Zack did not "just meet" prior to Nibelheim. Cloud and Tifa weren't "childhood friends" either. She was the girl next door who never socialized with him (that above flashback showed us this much as well). Cloud calling Tifa to the well was probably the longest conversation they'd ever had with one another up to that point.
So, sorry, but I fail to see how it makes sense for Cloud to single out Tifa over Zack unless he had feelings for her, especially if he and Zack had the "loving relationship" you claim.
This reminds me of your previous argument. You mentioned the whole Barret possibility thing, but why do Cloud's multi-choice options for Tifa or Aeris seem more romantic or direct than anything given in favor of Barret?
There's a pretty big between "Next to you, who wouldn't?" and "Barret's snoring kept me up", the first of which being directly flirtatious. You really think it's gay that a man can't sleep while crammed in a room with a snorer? Would it have been "straight" if he were a white noise sleeper who actually fancies something like that?
And while we're on the multi-choice subject, why is it that Cloud was given dialogue possibilities like, "That girl in the bakini....not a bad view", but never something like, "That guy over there... Great buns" if the developers intended it to be that open to interpretation?
But thank you for bringing up the date mechanic system, as it is(speculation alert) probably the only thing that kept them from making anything so direct towards any one girl.
I'm sorry, I said you were wrong for doing so? When? No, I suggested that you seemed to be stretching and questioned your reasoning (or lack thereof) behind certain claims.
They shared a long, intimate kiss underneath the night sky, alone, on a dock. "Biffles" do that too?
You must not have caught the meaning of my post. I apologize if I was not clear on the matter.
I did not say that Square detailed a supposed gay characters' friendly relationships with females, nor did I ever suggest that this is what you claimed.
In turn, I was suggesting that it is unlikely that Square would invest so much in a relationship like that. It was meant to strengthen the idea that the Squall-Rinoa subplot was a romantic one, given all the attention it was given.
[
And while I think this is respectable and reasonable, I don't really see this as the case, and I don't really feel that the things you've mentioned supports this idea. Things like "metrosexualism" and "clothing" would seem secondary to dialogue, content, and dynamics.
Also, with certain characters you've mentioned, it just doesn't seem to add up. VIII made it pretty clear that Zell had a crush on that library girl, and VII gave Vincent a direct relationship with a woman Lucrecia, whom he even claimed to love and so forth. This is why I really don't understand your basis for certain claims.
Lol, I didn't get "touchy" about anything.
IrezumiTabori
Newbie
If Kuja isnt at least bi, i'll eat my copy of FF9, including the case.
Just a small reminder guys that this IS the post count section. Let's try and put a little more effort into our posts for those of you who keep posting one liners. Another thing, I've noticed some CloudxTifa/CloudxAerith talk going on in here. Just another reminder that we do NOT allow the LTD to be discussed on these forums at all. There is a rule in regards to that you can read here: http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/final-fantasy-vii/regarding-the-love-triangle-debate-28875.html Thank you!
LittleMissDismissed
Chocobo Breeder
I'll try to answer this without stepping too much on that LTD, that scene to me just looked like Cloud held resentment at his childhood rather than wanting love. That flashback was from his "past" self and even when all 3 flashbacks add up it still doesn't make any major implication on Cloud romantically and I'm pretty sure the meaning for the flashbacks were to help Cloud understand himself as a person, not prove his heterosexuality.
In the original story Cloud and Zack did "just meet" and even in Crisis they only had about two short talks. Tifa was in Cloud's eyes a childhood friend and they both knew each other pretty well from the start.
Zack just seemed to care about Cloud more overall, they got along great for being practically new aquaintances. Also, in the flashback Zack was ready to start a life with Cloud and everything despite the short time they knew each other. Also, I saw none of this "singling out" Cloud never singled out anybody.
I thought the Barret scene was pretty romantic.
Until I have proof that Barret snores, that arguement is invalid.
I saw that more as a joke (pretty sure you would agree), he was trying to annoy Aeris not come out of the closet.
Or guy
It's ok I forgive you, apology accepted.
It's called "experimenting" a lot of biffles do that, also from where I was watching it looked more like a hug. They just don't mesh to me, I look at things on more of an emotional level and to me Squall just seemed closet. I see your point, it just doesn't sit well with me.
Be more clear then?
You did imply it and I felt it was worth mention
Sentence above cleared that up
I feel that I supported the idea just fine...Maybe not for Square on a universal level, but some of their characters seem to not show any major signs of leaning one way or the other, which makes sense since love isn't the main plot point in every FF game.
Deja vu. The Zell crush was a rather small irrelevant side-quest and I disliked how the girl was so bland. Like I said, I enjoyed his communication with Raj or Seifer much more, so to me he seemed more compatable with them.
As for Vincent, I took the time he was in the coffin into consideration seeing he was in there for a while. People change Vincent looked to have given up on Lucrecia romantically and was focusing more on his past. In general he didn't seem to be as much the ladies man that he probably once was and he didn't show any other signs of leaning one way or the other.
You sure did come across as touchy on the subject, whatever I probably over-read the post.
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HighwindPilot
White Mage
You act as though it couldn't do the latter in the process.
Cite any quote of an identity-solved Cloud stating this. There are none. He knew that they were not friends, and even discusses this in the "child memory".
As for the Zach thing: Even in the original, there's absolutely no proof that they "just met". And based on CC's account of the two, Zack was Cloud's first actual friend.
Read. I provided a quote and explanation 2 posts prior. And that particular quote was not the only one of it's kind. Every time Cloud got riled up in the Nibelheim incident, it was always Tifa he was concerned about. He singled out her name in confronting Sephiroth and tended to her when she was hurt. What was the most said between he and Zack? "Cloud, kill Sephiroth"? Lol.
So basically, you consider the multi-options as a means for the developers to allow people to identify with the characters by "swaying their preference", but in instances like these there's some type of excuse or alterior motive attached? Got it.
See, and this is why I said it seems like you're stretching a bit. Never did I say you were wrong. But it seems in each instance that would provide some clear sign of sexuality, you have a chain of explanations that would lead to the character being gay. Whereas, on the other hand, simply taking the scene for what it is would likely imply otherwise.
Or you could read clearer?
I'm starting to notice this trend of yours. You don't like the girl, but you like the type of relationship the male character has with other men. Are you sure these factors aren't affecting your outlook on their sexuality? It might be a case of the "wishuwerghey"s.
Anyway, I'm gonna stop here because this debate's headed nowhere and--like all those of it's kind--starting to go circular as a result. There's no real right or wrong, it's all about interpretation; yours differed from the norm so it sparked my curiousity.
It's been fun. Au revoir.
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If their were openly gay/lesbian characters in the games, people might want to stay away from the games, thus, the game would lose sales. The creators must have realized that people have different views on different things, so they didn't incorporate any gay characters in their games.
Although, other games have had gay characters and sold well, so maybe in the future, the FF series can experiment and put one in. Would be a sight to behold
Although, other games have had gay characters and sold well, so maybe in the future, the FF series can experiment and put one in. Would be a sight to behold