how would you feel if this happened to you?

[Razberry Knight]

ZaXo Ken'Ichi

I'm going to ignore most of that due to one key issue. And that is misunderstanding a point. Unfortunately no one is putting their bias aside.


For example: Lunafreya loves Lunafreya the characTer despite not knowing anything. And she vouches for this character by instances of where she isn't playing the princess role. Me? I require less superficial things out of a character.


Ashe is a great character not just because of who she is (Princess) but what her personality is in ff12 I saw Balthier react to Ashe, Penelo and Vaan. I saw Vaan influence Ashe and Balthier. I saw characters react to each others personalities and I saw how that effected the story.

Ff13 felt forced, and I have yet to see the dedication of seem less and influential personalities in FF. Before ff12, final fantasy has been associated with more Anime style plot. We see the typical characters act and react the same way they do in anime.

When I saw versus xiii, it gave me hope. And then when new ffxv it reverted back to a more tyoical anime style personalities.

Thats what I loved about the Stella / Noctis scenes. Also Stella felt like a real character. There was nothing plot wise to add to her personality, you see it before the plot begins.


For ffxv? There's so much exposition involved. She is an oracle, she had rough childhood, she is a political figure. She's hitting allk the notes I expect but none of the ones that matter.


How does she affect Noctis? What makes her likable if we just talked to her, not just talking as if we we're talking to a cosplayer in some convention. But if these characters we're actually real.

With Stella I can imagine having a real conversation just by seeing how she carried herself with Noctis. Luna? She's stiff, overly dignified, and has baggage.

I really detest it when I feel like characters are trying to take the spot light. But I just don't see how she works with Noctis at all. She feels like a stronger plot device because the antagonists we're only trying to use her to take advantage.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

I dunno. I just feel that you're trying to use a double standard to your advantage. Not to mention, I think you're choosing to look for subtleties in how Stella was shown in order to inflate the importance of the examples you use, while completely disregarding the same sort of subtleties with Luna. Honestly I don't care either way. But I think it's foolish to get caught up in Stella, because she doesn't exist anymore, and we realistically didn't know anything about her.

 

[AuronX]

Lunafreya loves Lunafreya the characTer despite not knowing anything.

...

With Stella I can imagine having a real conversation just by seeing how she carried herself with Noctis.

You're right, we don't know anything about Luna...so who's to say she's so different from Stella? We haven't even heard Luna speak, so presuming anything about her personality at this point is unfair. We'll know if she's a good replacement for Stella or not when the game releases. I get the feeling she's quiet in the trailers because her character will be important and SE doesn't want to reveal how just yet, not that she's been reduced to such a shallow character that she has no lines at all. If that was the case, they wouldn't have gotten a high-profile actor to play her role in Kingsglaive. Luna has depth--we just don't know in what way yet.

But we also never knew much about Stella. Feeding a personality and character development into her that was never there doesn't make for a fair comparison to Luna. Yes we had the dinner party scene, but that's basically it. And personally I hope we still get this scene in some form in FFXV. It seemed really nice and it was a good way to introduce Stella. So far literally every other scene that we saw from Versus XIII has been revealed to also be in XV, so I'd say there's a high chance we will see Luna and Noctis interacting in a similar way.

Actually, let's take a look at the English fan dub.

Literally the only thing about this that doesn't fit in FFXV's world is the allusions to the Fabula Nova Crystallis mythology, which at this point we don't know how much of that will be kept or thrown out for FFXV. Everything else is a perfect match. Noctis and Stella talking about their childhood, Noctis mentioning a near-death experience (which we see in the anime and Platinum Demo), Stella being knowledgeable about the legend, and so on. Sure some of the smaller details have changed, but only in ways that make sense. Luna is now an oracle, so her knowledge runs a bit deeper, and this would no longer be the two characters' first meeting as is implied in the scene above. But there's nothing stopping Luna and Noctis from having conversations like this. We don't know if she will, but we also don't know that she won't. So far the trend is that more has been kept from Versus XIII than we expected, so can't we just wait until September and then see how things actually are in the game? Luna may be more what everyone wanted from Stella than we think.

 

[Razberry Knight]

AuronX You have to look at why they changed her in the first place. Please, I beg everyone to think about it before you speak. (Ill show you why). I wanted her personality to challenge Noctis' and that's what I saw in Stella. There's no more of her being a reoccurring rival to Noctis as well. I wanted to see her motivations and determination to go against the protagonist despite not actually being an antagonist.

Now she's romantically involved rather than being a friend, now she's a political figure , an oracle, and an arranged marriage to noctis as trap. Lets also look at the fact that she had a bad childhood. So we are already seeing what kind of person Se wants to make out of her before ever seeing her speak (and yes we did see her speak). There's more typical aspects being revealed and this is things that Se wants us to like. Also let's look at everything else she's done that Se wants us to see and whats us to praise about her.

So far they have been focusing on how strong she is despite not actually doing anything strong. We've seen her brush a gun, we've seen her sit around. We've seen paintings of her walking away from a desolated city, and now we've seen her just stand up to Leviathan.

We've read interviews on how much strength she shows off by brushing guns away. how she's better than Stella because shes strong.

AuronX, you know a thing or to about a story. So far I haven't been wrong about a character. When I know a character sucks, I know (Lightning). So far with what we know about Luna, it's the same old things we are familiar with.

now everything that I see so far, I'm expecting forced dialogue and a forced romance. Everything already feels forced.

TLDR look at how they're being promoted, I don't give Se that much credit when it comes to surprises. And no this isn't about just Stella/Luna. All the characters are more and more typical. Noctis is the only original one.

ZaXo Ken'Ichi trust me that I am looking at both subtleties for both characters. But the subtleties for Stella say far more in personality and how she was impacting characters than that of Luna.

Also, I also just don't have any faith in Hajine Tabata in creating original characters. The last time he made characters was in Type-0 and they we're all steereotypical. Even for characters I was hoping we're to be original like Ace.

 

[AuronX]

To be fair, Type-0 was taken from Tabata's hands and given forced integration into the Fabula Nova Crystallis mythology. You could almost say it's the same situation as Nomura with Versus XIII. And Type-0 was a portable game with different expectations--don't forget Tabata was also behind Crisis Core.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong. I'm just saying we won't know until we see Luna 'in person'. Same for the other characters. Honestly I felt the FFXV cast displayed more character in 10 minutes of anime than in all the trailers we've had since the re-announcement in 2013. There's 50 hours of gameplay to look forward to. I've got to imagine Luna will get some development in all of that.

 

[Razberry Knight]

To be fair, Type-0 was taken from Tabata's hands and given forced integration into the Fabula Nova Crystallis mythology. You could almost say it's the same situation as Nomura with Versus XIII. And Type-0 was a portable game with different expectations--don't forget Tabata was also behind Crisis Core.I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong. I'm just saying we won't know until we see Luna 'in person'. Same for the other characters. Honestly I felt the FFXV cast displayed more character in 10 minutes of anime than in all the trailers we've had since the re-announcement in 2013. There's 50 hours of gameplay to look forward to. I've got to imagine Luna will get some development in all of that.

Based on what I'm seeing, Luna's becoming more of the supporting then the main. Shes playing a typical role. But again what I liked about Stella was that she surprised people. There was clear vision going on. So that role has completely changed I can expect the typical outcomes. why should iassume for something I know isn't going to happen?tis isn't cynical negativity too. This is speaking from experience from actually bringing works and seeing how trailers, promotions, and other things. As a content Creator you have to sell a point of view to your audience.I've been right about final fantasy xiii and it's sequels, I've been right about final fantasy explorers, and I've even been right about Final Fantasy Mobius (and I honestly wanted that to be good!). People are starting to see my point of view on Theathrhythm.And once the game is over, people will see about how record keepers isn't that great of a game.

Also fftype 0 had extensively lacking characters. None of them we're good. None of the playable ones.

 

[.Mosh]

As far as I am concerned who cares if your right or wrong to be honest. We all just want to play and enjoy the game. We all know after a million times of you beating it into our heads that you have no hope for Luna.

I still think it is far too soon to judge her when she has a movie role as well. Maybe she will have a scene where she blocks a fatal blow hitting Noctis or the scene with leviathan she slaps it out of the way. We don't know hardly anything. Maybe all the scenes you want to see to change your opinion can't be shown because they would purely be spoilers and S-E don't want to show that. This statement could be in regards to any character in this game.

Also has their been many FFs where you have liked the entire cast? For me there isn't one game where I liked all of them. Also saying you have been right about certain games and their characters is just silly you may think your right to a select group of people but your view is not the view of the entire community or fan base of Final Fantasy.

Keep responding or whatever I grow tiresome of the predictable responses. I just want the game, sit back, relax and enjoy it.

 

[Razberry Knight]

As far as I am concerned who cares if your right or wrong to be honest. We all just want to play and enjoy the game. We all know after a million times of you beating it into our heads that you have no hope for Luna.

Do you know why I don't? I don't think you do because of the following statement.

I still think it is far too soon to judge her when she has a movie role as well. Maybe she will have a scene where she blocks a fatal blow hitting Noctis or the scene with leviathan she slaps it out of the way. We don't know hardly anything. Maybe all the scenes you want to see to change your opinion can't be shown because they would purely be spoilers and S-E don't want to show that. This statement could be in regards to any character in this game.

facepalm.....

How many times do I have to say what makes a good character? I'm not looking for "scenes" I'm looking for story. A scene is a single event that can be forgotten.

You think flashy bad ass scenes helped lightning? It didn't.

You have no idea what my problem is with Luna. You don't read. you come in pick a point and start acting.

Also has their been many FFs where you have liked the entire cast? For me there isn't one game where I liked all of them. Also saying you have been right about certain games and their characters is just silly you may think your right to a select group of people but your view is not the view of the entire community or fan base of Final Fantasy.

I know you don't read .Mosh. i know that because ive addressed this. Yes, normally there is one character i hate in each party. but theyre usually on the sidelines. Recently with ff13, important characters that move the story along are the ones that i hate.

Stella was going to be a character that moved the story along just as much as noctis. So to have a character replace with "this" is a problem if I hate her.

You don't read anything.

Keep responding or whatever I grow tiresome of the predictable responses. I just want the game, sit back, relax and enjoy it.

versus the unpredictability of how little you grasp? Im repeating the same damn answer because you dont get the picture. No, dont effing act like you do. you dont.
Im tired of playing nice to a fandom that likes to put a blind eye, act smart, and then in the end of the day forget it ever happened. I'm serious. AuronX you know how real of what I'm saying is. Maybe the others don't, but you do.

I put all the pieces together, i follow up on my points, and it is YOU who is stuck on repeat. You dont follow the conversation and repeat what has already been clarified.


you dont worknin an indusrry where it is shady. Do not even think about rebuttling. Because if you do, you are admitting.
and thats the worst of it all. How can I be supporting a series that isn't willing to be honest, upfront and not lie to me and others.

No Se wants you to believe that versus died in 2011 not in 2014. They want you to believe they did everything they could and the obvious choice wasn't there.


There is no legal issue for them to have Nomuras opinion. If they say it is, they are admitting he's not happy with it. I'm sorry, but this is bull crap.


Come back when youre all ready to have a real conversation. I put my pride on the line and also my knowledge on the industry that we all know has had shady and if you are happy with that. All the more power to you. But don't hide the mess they made.

 

[AuronX]

Calm down people, this thread is escalating to borderline personal insults, which will not be tolerated.

How many times do I have to say what makes a good character? I'm not looking for "scenes" I'm looking for story.

What several of us are trying to say is that we don't know yet what Luna's story is. Just because we haven't been given the kind of information or character development you're looking for doesn't mean we won't ever get it. However you define story or character, that will remain true until we get the game in September. Tempering your expectations is fair, trying to get everyone else to form their impressions of a character based on your predictions isn't.

you dont worknin an indusrry where it is shady.

And just because you might doesn't mean Nomura or anyone at SE does. Again, you can't feed your own situation into someone else's. Anything you think you know about legal proceedings within SE is hearsay, it's a different company from your own in a different country with different business practices.

How can I be supporting a series that isn't willing to be honest, upfront and not lie to me and others.

SE is not required to divulge every last detail of every product they create and how it is created months before it is released. Secrecy leading up to a product launch is normal, and to be honest SE has been unprecedentedly transparent about the development of FFXV over the past couple of years. Assuming that because certain details are under NDA those details must be dark, corrupt secrets is a common error I see many people making who follow the videogame industry closely. Sometimes it has proven true that NDAs have been issued to hide broken ports and such, but many more times once the embargo has lifted people see exactly the product they were hoping for or even better. The FFXV Uncovered Event is a good example, actually. A few of the surprises planned got leaked ahead of time and spoiled the moment of unveiling, plus earned Gamespot a legal suit for millions of dollars in damages. There are legitimate reasons for withholding details, especially in a product where story is important.

I won't ask for you to like Luna or even FFXV in general, but for goodness sakes, at least give the game a chance to launch before you decide how you feel about it. What if FFXV comes out and still has all the elements of Stella you liked, and it turns out Nomura's vision is almost completely intact? Until we can play through it for ourselves there's no guarantee that won't happen.

In any case, insulting people over their takes on Nomura's involvement with FFXV and Stella's character change to Luna will not be tolerated. Keep the discussion civil or politely bow out.

 

[Razberry Knight]

AuronX, .Mosh, ZaXo Ken'Ichi

First things first. No more wishy washy. You have stance on the situation you say, you try to convince me, but no more treading on warm water.


If you firmly believe I'm wrong, then prove me wrong.

I know better.I haven't been wrong and some of you know that. Some of you should know when I have stance it's not because of one thing. You all treat it like answer A or answer By or answer C. Its not one thing. And your reasons never line up.

Again AuronX, we both know better. To say Se is unfamiliar on this situation is contradicting the reason that Nomura should've been prepared. It contradicts the idea this is common in the industry and we all have to accept it.

You need a stance when trying to convince me. I don't play with ideas like this. Here's my challenge to all of you. Prove it.

If you can't. Don't bother talking to me EVER. I'm done talking to people trying to feed me lies. I'm done trying to see someone cover up other peoples shady behavior. Ignorance is not an excuse especially for a company as old as Square Enix. For the record, people at GameFAQ see right through it.

And it's the fans there that just don't want to talk. They don't want to be challenged. they want to like something, surround themselves with lies and brush it all off.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

When your opponent is saying there is not enough information to prove any answer correct, that means it's your job to prove yourself correct. It's not our jobs to prove you wrong, because we've already established that we believe the information required to do that doesn't exist.

If I said that there may or may not be intelligent life on another planet somewhere, and then you say that there is and you have proof, you're the one who needs to prove yourself right. But that's impossible. Nobody here on either side of the argument will ever agree until the game is released, because we've reached an impasse where some of us believe more information is required, and some of us don't. That doesn't make any of us 100% right or wrong. So I would ask that you settle down a bit, and try to be civil. Because right now you're acting so closed off that I feel there's no reason for me to even continue in this conversation. Conversation and debate is a two way street. I haven't seen you actually debate any of my points, so much as use guerilla logic as a way to dismiss them. And that's not fair.

I understand that you might feel backed into a corner, because most people here are disagreeing with your stance. But that's not the intention of anyone here, I don't think. It's definitely not my intention. We're just trying to explain to you why we can't personally come to the same conclusion as you, because we require more proof. So chillax

 

[AuronX]

Then to reiterate:

Here's a compilation of everything we ever saw of Final Fantasy Versus XIII. Notice how the early teaser scene is almost identical to the city we see at the end of Platinum Demo. Notice how at the 12:00 mark we see Noctis running through a vast, open world and even visiting a gas station very similar to what we have in XV. We see him fighting Behemoth with a similar moveset. We see a realtime day-night cycle. We see a battle on top of a flying ship with Aranea Highwind. For all we know XV will even have a similar dinner party scene. Sure, characters have gotten redesigns, names have been changed, gameplay elements have changed, the plot has evolved--but really, based on what evidence we have, XV looks to be pretty faithful to the spirit of Versus XIII.

let's take a look at the English fan dub.

Noctis and Stella talking about their childhood, Noctis mentioning a near-death experience (which we see in the anime and Platinum Demo), Stella being knowledgeable about the legend, and so on.

In addition, Square Enix has repeatedly come forward to say that fans' impression of Nomura's departure is inaccurate. Interviews with Nomura himself make it clear that his ideas for the game as FFXV are at the root of what we have today. The battle system is his, the characters are his, the road trip theme is his, the major scenes we've seen are his. Even putting the game on PS4 and Xbox One is due to his influence. Nomura has Kingdom Hearts III and now the Final Fantasy VII Remake on his hands, the latter of which he didn't know he was going to be directing until the game was announced at E3--a big honor to him, by the way, not some evil scheme to get him off the FFXV chair. In fact, his departure was not sudden or unplanned at all, and it was always the team's intention to maintain Nomura's vision for the game even when his work was finished so he could move on to other projects. Nomura didn't just start Versus XIII. He started XV as well, and everything that the game is to this day stems from it.

Please provide more convincing proof that Nomura got shafted than your own personal experience with a completely different company. Literally everything we know about Final Fantasy XV including official statements from SE and Nomura himself points to exactly the opposite. If you don't like what we have, that's your choice, but then the reality is you dislike the work of the very man you're trying to vindicate.

If you can't. Don't bother talking to me EVER.

Please treat those who take the time to interact with you with a little more respect.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Then to reiterate:


In addition, Square Enix has repeatedly come forward to say that fans' impression of Nomura's departure is inaccurate. Interviews with Nomura himself make it clear that his ideas for the game as FFXV are at the root of what we have today.

I've said this I don't know how many times, but what my opening post shows is that he left in good terms. This is why I suspect no one reads what I'm saying. And it's more insulting for me than you think. Because everyone claims they're reading what I say to the T and they don't even come close. not even half way.


So if you read the opening post, if you re read what I've been saying. Then you know his departure was never the problem. Its what happens "after his departure".

The battle system is his, the characters are his, the road trip theme is his, the major scenes we've seen are his.

and the story which youve conveniently ignored because you know that changed. He was the original story crrator as well. That was established before. And look at the characters if they're "his". One was replaced, another modified heavily and shifted the tone that Nomura had confirmed he intended.

Even putting the game on PS4 and Xbox One is due to his influence.

You're side lining. You are mentioning what remains in order to defuse what has changed. But to be completely fair, I don't care gam play wise. I knew that was going to remain regardless because they can't throw those assets they spent so much on. They are alrady commited to making a game using those assets. So we both know that doesn't matter. It was going to remain regardless. it's a bad business move to start over. What they could change at the time is the story.

Nomura has Kingdom Hearts III and now the Final Fantasy VII Remake on his hands, the latter of which he didn't know he was going to be directing until the game was announced at E3--a big honor to him, by the way, not some evil scheme to get him off the FFXV chair. In fact, his departure was not sudden or unplanned at all, and it was always the team's intention to maintain Nomura's vision for the game even when his work was finished so he could move on to other projects. Nomura didn't just start Versus XIII. He started XV as well, and everything that the game is to this day stems from it.

The fact that Hajime Tabata has removed Stella, changed Regis, also created new characters such as Cidney doesn't tell me a lot on keeping true to the vision. Even then he altered his design for the film as well.

Let me reiterate, when it comes to Square Enix Production teams, you have an assigned director (which is usually concept Creator, character design/not always illustrator, and story) who leads the writing the production. He has appointed writers and appointed producer to help with the heavier work. There are others who assist but not "lead".

So again, yes it was confirmed that Nomura left in "good terms". He left the ground work, but that was back then. OK all the quotes in the world came from Nomura defending his departure.

The changes to final fantasy xv came some time after he left (please I cannot stress this enough. please read the opening post again).

Please provide more convincing proof that Nomura got shafted than your own personal experience with a completely different company. Literally everything we know about Final Fantasy XV including official statements from SE and Nomura himself points to exactly the opposite. If you don't like what we have, that's your choice, but then the reality is you dislike the work of the very man you're trying to vindicate.

OK you bring up a lot of Nomura. But those quotes were from 2013 when he was still director. You don't have a quote of him saying " I approve of the changes" "I think Luna is better than Stella" or "I love Regis redesign" or "I think the flying car is amazing! Good idea!"

Remember where the name "Versus XIII" came from. At the time was to go against normal conventions of an ff. some of that was game play but also themes as nomura and writer mentioned they wanted it be dark and sad (but not too sad).


In "late" 2014 (heavy emphasis on late), Final fantasy XV was going through major changes. He says that clear as day here: http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/0...l-fantasy-versus-xiii-any-more-says-director/

In another interview when asked if this was still the darkest Final Fantasy yet, Hajime Tabata pushed back saying this is no longer versus xiii. It has other themes. I'm currently looking for the interview but it was around 2015/2014.

Since then it's been sounding more and more like Hajime Tabatas project and his vision since. Because all he's concerned is making the grandest most accessible ff game to date. And it shows, it all feels more like a brandless FF now. Each ff had followed certain rules but also had it's own flavor. I'm not seeing a unique flavor for the new trailers of ffxv vs old. It either feels like bad execution (dawn) or Gods of Egypt (Uncovered).


The Dawn trailer was to reintroduce the NEW Final Fantasy XV but it didn't work, because it involved forgetting what we saw before. They had to make Dawn 2.0 to make up for it.

Are we forgetting how controversial gamescon was? Due to that controversy March event as to push more and give us clearer view in which all it did was present a new trailer and the only game changer was a flying car.




There has been more opportunity to clear up these issues. For example, Hajime Tabata never credits or asks Nomura for these changes ever. Second we haven't heard of Nomuras answer on how he feels about it. Nd let's be honest, Hajime Tabata has turned this into his project.

Third I see Square Enix doing everything in their power to avoid confronting the elephant in the room. Yes they addressed he left in good terms when there was no controversy but when changes came about to final fantasy xv, that's where Nomura has gone silent. Thats also where claims of it being a legal issue to gain his opinion.

I repeat...when he left, there was no problem. He needed to work on other games to increase productivity. Thats it.

 

[AuronX]

I've said this I don't know how many times, but what my opening post shows is that he left in good terms. This is why I suspect no one reads what I'm saying. And it's more insulting for me than you think. Because everyone claims they're reading what I say to the T and they don't even come close. not even half way.

We are reading. In my last post I covered both his departure and what has developed since, because all are connected. The most major changes we've seen since he left were made by Nomura himself before departing the project--that's what I was getting at.

But also, you posed the question 'how would you feel if this happened to you,' 'this' being defined as your impressions of what happened to Nomura. Except, before that question can be answered, we have to further ask what exactly happened to Nomura that we're supposed to be sympathizing with. And for that we challenge your assumptions about Nomura's situation because we found that evidence suggests a different story. Since you say we should be willing to accept challenges to our viewpoints, I hope you're willing to do the same.

Now, as to why his departure is relevant (even though you are talking about what happened after): saying Nomura left on good terms and was legally restricted from having any further input on FFXV is self-contradictory. That's not very good terms. And since it appears very little has changed outside of his design, it also doesn't make sense to say he got shafted significantly later. Nomura did his part and other people filled in the gaps. That involved minor alterations to make everything work together, but they've kept the spirit of Nomura's work in-tact.

Remember that Kingsglaive has been in development since when Nomura was director of FFXV. No, he's not the director of Kingsglaive, but you will notice that King Regis and Luna bear their current designs in the film. Visuals like that don't happen overnight. This means their redesigns had to be determined long before they made their way into FFXV and the public eye. The previous models were simply Versus XIII leftovers--a project which, I remind you, Nomura himself rebooted as FFXV.

Since then it's been sounding more and more like Hajime Tabatas project and his vision since.

This is where it all hits home: Nomura was director when 90% of the changes were made. Therefore, doesn't make sense to pin 75% of the changes on Tabata.

Hajime Tabata never credits or asks Nomura for these changes ever.

Because the changes were already planned before he took over. Tabata's main focus is getting code made--bringing Nomura's story to life, in essence.

Second we haven't heard of Nomuras answer on how he feels about it.

Because he famously doesn't use a lot of social media personally and is busy with KH3 and FFVII.

Third I see Square Enix doing everything in their power to avoid confronting the elephant in the room.

Because to Square Enix there's no controversy. Nomura is happy, Tabata is happy, (most) fans are happy. What is there to confront?

You don't have a quote of him saying " I approve of the changes" "I think Luna is better than Stella" or "I love Regis redesign" or "I think the flying car is amazing! Good idea!"

Because he made the changes himself. The flying car was probably a last-minute addition, I'll give you that, but that one element alone isn't enough to alter the game's vision. It's a game mechanic first, not so much a story element.

nomura and writer mentioned they wanted it be dark and sad (but not too sad).

And Hajime Tabata said he hopes fans cry at the end of the game. Sounds like they have the same goal.

I'm not seeing a unique flavor for the new trailers of ffxv vs old.

Up until the Uncovered event I would've agreed with you here. I blame that on Square Enix's internal restructuring, though. Tabata has even admitted FFXV lacked a clear sense of brand identity (even as far back as when it was still directed by Nomura) and that creating that brand identity has been a challenge for them. I'd say with the latest trailers they've done it. I'm actually reminded of late 90s movie trailers--you could even compare it to the Spirits Within trailer. There's just this sense of seeing something you've never quite seen before, a marvel of modern technology at work in a new media experience. I'm still curious how the moment-to-moment character of the game will come out, but I think it's safe to say the game has just about figured out its identity.

 

[Shaissa]

My big and final point on top of what AuronX said that wasn't really mentiond is the fact that Nomura stepped down to work on two major projects. Kingdom Hearts III and FFVII remake. both of which can be argued to be just as big if not bigger than FFXV. Kingdom Hearts is Nomura baby. He is the director of I and II so it makes sense that he wants to be on that, and FFVII remake is like the biggest remake in recent history. A game that has sold 10 million plus copies that no other JRPG can really reach, and with that in mind he left XV to a person he really trusted and realized that things will change in it, I think maybe Nomura accepted changes before he left, not like he was fired and ignored his original vision.

 

[Razberry Knight]

My big and final point on top of what AuronX said that wasn't really mentiond is the fact that Nomura stepped down to work on two major projects. Kingdom Hearts III and FFVII remake. both of which can be argued to be just as big if not bigger than FFXV. Kingdom Hearts is Nomura baby. He is the director of I and II so it makes sense that he wants to be on that, and FFVII remake is like the biggest remake in recent history. A game that has sold 10 million plus copies that no other JRPG can really reach, and with that in mind he left XV to a person he really trusted and realized that things will change in it, I think maybe Nomura accepted changes before he left, not like he was fired and ignored his original vision.

Sigh.....it's like beating a horse that doesn't need to be beaten....

 

[Shaissa]

Sigh.....it's like beating a horse that doesn't need to be beaten....

sigh............ it's like showing someone all the proof they need to be proven wrong yet still ignores it all.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I give up.....there are clear contradictions that are being ignored. But no one acknowledges them. Now I admit KingsGlaive I was wrong about. However Luna was designed by Roen (not nomura) conceptualize by Hajime Tabata because they couldn't understand Stella. Thats his words. Stella is at least 30% of ffxv was. Lets also look at what Nomura has said that the vision for XV hasn't changed when the name changed. And then once again Hajine clearly saying otherwise after he left. I also want to point out that Nomura did mention Stella before in 2013 and why she looked so different. So while he was director, Luna wasn't in the picture yet.As response to contradiction you claim, Nomira cannot give negative pR to any works if it means impacting sales. So if SE is really calling it a legal issue, then guess what? That means it's highly possible he has nothing positive to say. Additionally, this is the most common in all industries. Fant4stic didn't get any criticism by the actors right up until the premiere where they no longer had to give it positive light. Also the same for Twilight series. The actors ate it, but before it's released, they all said they loved the book.So again, either I'm giving FFXV too much credit and they're really just don't care how info is revealed OR you don't give them enough and there's more to it. You can't deny how open it is. And even though I'm the minority, I'm not the only one.But AuronX, whether you agree with me or not, I'm tired of repeating the same thing. In tired of hearing this crap where people constantly bring up how nomura left in good terms. That was my point from the beginning. I dont want people using it as a point against if I'm using it for mine.

 

[AuronX]

Well I do have to admit I've said all I have to say at this point and then some--and it hasn't been only about Nomura's departure, that's just the most compelling point of evidence to support the rest.

So if SE is really calling it a legal issue...

You feel we've been repeating ourselves, and I suppose we have, but this is what you keep repeating. You say you have proof of this, but I have yet to see anything beyond pure speculation (which is all anyone can offer at this point, really). If you have such compelling proof then please don't hesitate to present it. Otherwise I'd say this discussion has drawn to a close--and there should be no hard feelings on any side over what was said. We're discussing the work situation of someone half a world away from us who'd probably be surprised to find that people care so much as to spend 6+ pages of forum posts so passionately debating it. If you have a concern and no solid evidence, find some: email Square Enix, email Hajime Tabata, email Nomura himself and see what comes of it. The worst they can do is not reply. I'm sure they're all used to receiving English emails.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Well I do have to admit I've said all I have to say at this point and then some--and it hasn't been only about Nomura's departure, that's just the most compelling point of evidence to support the rest.

You feel we've been repeating ourselves, and I suppose we have, but this is what you keep repeating.

How many times have I had to mention that him leaving Final Fantasy XV wasn't the problem. he had to go due to company needs for the other games. The opening post recognizes this. So when you all come in on a high horse saying the very point I'm already making but as a huge game changer to the discussion it pisses me off. Read the thread. Or do in have to quote?

You say you have proof of this, but I have yet to see anything beyond pure speculation (which is all anyone can offer at this point, really). If you have such compelling proof then please don't hesitate to present it. Otherwise I'd say this discussion has drawn to a close--and there should be no hard feelings on any side over what was said. We're discussing the work situation of someone half a world away from us who'd probably be surprised to find that people care so much as to spend 6+ pages of forum posts so passionately debating it. If you have a concern and no solid evidence, find some: email Square Enix, email Hajime Tabata, email Nomura himself and see what comes of it. The worst they can do is not reply. I'm sure they're all used to receiving English emails.

you just ignore points. If I ignore them, I openly state that i do and "why". But here's the problem. You have an interpretation. If it wasn't for Kingsglaive, you wouldn't have any solid evidence. But there is legitimate, explicit and solid proof that the Stella/Luna scenario wasn't created by Nomura. Recently in the form someone said "why have nomuras opinion when we have the father of ff". And I say, why did they need to go that far considering most people were supporting it. Like I said, there's two claims youre theory supports that Se is ignorant, mine +based on everything we know about ) suggest there not ignorant, they're arrogant. But, there's jot a situation where they are neither. They are either one or both. So can you at least admit that if your theory was true, Se has handled it the qorst way possible. Specifically Tabata.