Poor Xemnas?

Davey Gaga

Davey Gaga

Under you like a G.U.Y.
Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
7,134
Age
33
Location
Glasgow City Centre, Scotland.
Gil
0
This thread can be used to analyse and further understand Organization XIII.

I decided to make this thread, because something that happened at the end intrigued me:

Xemnas: I need more rage ... I need ... more hearts
Sora: Xemnas, there's more to a heart than anger and rage. Don't you remember?
Xemnas: Unfortunately ... I dont.

Do you think we are supposed to feel, even the slightest bit of, sympathy for Xemnas? He doesn't remember what it's like to have a heart, he doesn't remember his past life. Are we supposed to feel compassion for him (or any other member of the Organization) or is this line merely used to attract some dropped jaws?

You decide.
 
Not really if their heart was strong in the first place and didn't give in to the darkness he would never have turned into a heartless and nobody
 
rasengan said:
Not really if their heart was strong in the first place and didn't give in to the darkness he would never have turned into a heartless and nobody
Click to expand...

But the point of the matter is: should we feel sorry for these people who have lost their hearts, and only want them back?

Xemnas, the most desperate, tried to enter Kingdom Hearts, probably in order to FIND his heart. Should we sympathise with him? His entire goal, while evil, will result in the non-existence of Nobodies, it will result in the Nobodies becoming whole again.

To become a heartless, one doesn't necessarily have to give in to the darkness, their heart mat not have been as strong as another. Is this possibly another reason why we should feel sorry for them?

A final question in this post: does anyone actually understand where I'm coming from? :P
 
I felt some pity for Xemnas, but like all Nobodies, and as Sora states, they're not even supposed to exist. They are begrudged by Light and Darkness for that very reason, and if both elements have absolutes, then I cannot help but think that the disposal of Xemnas was only out of righteous action.
 
Vegnya said:
I felt some pity for Xemnas, but like all Nobodies, and as Sora states, they're not even supposed to exist. They are begrudged by Light and Darkness for that very reason, and if both elements have absolutes, then I cannot help but think that the disposal of Xemnas was only out of righteous action.
Click to expand...

They exist, but they're not meant to. How do you think that makes them feel? Again, sympathy vote, because they DO exist, know they shouldn't and thus are unhappy. All they want is to be whole again. Wasn't Roxas and Namine' in the same position? Yes. So why do we like them better?

EDIT:

Take these lines, for example:

[Sora] You're ... fading away?
[Axel] Well... that's what happens when you put your entire being into an attack. Not that nobodies actually HAVE beings, right?

******************

[Axel] Let's meet again, in the next life.
[Roxas] Yeah, I'll be waiting.
[Axel] Silly. Just because you have a next life.

******************

[Axel] My heart just wouldn't be in it, you know? Haven't got one.

******************

[Sai'x] And when that time comes, we can truly, finally exist!

******************

[Sai'x] Why... Kingdom Hearts... where is my heart?
******************
[Sai'x] If I had a heart, this is where I would die of laughter.

Through all of these quotes from the game, I have attempted to show that we are to feel sympathy for the Organization. Feel free to oppose this. I really want some good views on this.
 
Riku said:
They exist, but they're not meant to. How do you think that makes them feel? Again, sympathy vote, because they DO exist, know they shouldn't and thus are unhappy. All they want is to be whole again. Wasn't Roxas and Namine' in the same position? Yes. So why do we like them better?


Through all of these quotes from the game, I have attempted to show that we are to feel sympathy for the Organization. Feel free to oppose this. I really want some good views on this.
Click to expand...

Nobodies do not have emotions because they lack a heart (by the way, this is canceling out the Kingdom Hearts novel, in which, for some reason, it states they have emotions, but yet feel incomplete). Of course, it is easy to say that I am majorly wrong, but that is because the Nobodies, mainly those of Organization XIII only pretend to show emotion and thus even fool themselves and those around them. They actually know this: Wanting something so bad (a heart) and but not feeling anything with it, which is why they try to substitute that with goals and personal agendas such as manipulation, sadism, and heck, even gambling (Luxord).

On a side note, I disliked Roxas and Naminé, for personal reasons which I believe are inappropriate to mention. But my take on them is that Roxas decided to leave Organization XIII, and Naminé was not a part of it. I guess it almost goes without saying that the reason why people would like them better is just because they weren't enemies of anyone, and as Diz states a "tool at best."
 
Vegnya said:
Nobodies do not have emotions because they lack a heart (by the way, this is canceling out the Kingdom Hearts novel, in which, for some reason, it states they have emotions, but yet feel incomplete). Of course, it is easy to say that I am majorly wrong, but that is because the Nobodies, mainly those of Organization XIII only pretend to show emotion and thus even fool themselves and those around them. They actually know this: Wanting something so bad (a heart) and but not feeling anything with it, which is why they try to substitute that with goals and personal agendas such as manipulation, sadism, and heck, even gambling (Luxord).

On a side note, I disliked Roxas and Naminé, for personal reasons which I believe are inappropriate to mention. But my take on them is that Roxas decided to leave Organization XIII, and Naminé was not a part of it. I guess it almost goes without saying that the reason why people would like them better is just because they weren't enemies of anyone, and as Diz states a "tool at best."
Click to expand...

And now, I must ask the question (in hopes of aiding my argument): why did the feel the need to "pretend" to have hearts, or "pretend" to have emotions?
 
Like I said, they know that they no do not have emotions which a heart gives, and it makes them feel empty and inadequete. That is what causes them to create the pretense of having emotions and ambitions. I like to think of it as trying to "fit in".
 
in a way i feel bad for him. But if u look into it deeper xemnas is only xeanorts nobody and xeanort brought this upon himself. there fore in a way i dont feel bad for him. not to mention he was hard to beat on the game in proud mode, so that didnt help my judgement on him any
 
Vegnya said:
Like I said, they know that they no do not have emotions which a heart gives, and it makes them feel empty and inadequete. That is what causes them to create the pretense of having emotions and ambitions. I like to think of it as trying to "fit in".
Click to expand...
"Makes them feel empty and inadequate" is a bit of a contradiction, no? ;)


darkbain said:
in a way i feel bad for him. But if u look into it deeper xemnas is only xeanorts nobody and xeanort brought this upon himself. there fore in a way i dont feel bad for him. not to mention he was hard to beat on the game in proud mode, so that didnt help my judgement on him any
Click to expand...
That there's some funny shit ^ :D

I read on Wiki about Xemnas in particular. It said that he wanted to piece together Kingdom Hearts, one heart at a time, so that they may be "whole" again. Once again, this helps to convey that these beings are half of a person. All they want is to get their other half back, come on people! Where is the love!? :P
 
Riku said:
"Makes them feel empty and inadequate" is a bit of a contradiction, no? ;)



That there's some funny shit ^ :D

I read on Wiki about Xemnas in particular. It said that he wanted to piece together Kingdom Hearts, one heart at a time, so that they may be "whole" again. Once again, this helps to convey that these beings are half of a person. All they want is to get their other half back, come on people! Where is the love!? :P
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed that too late, but even so, I cannot help but think that was a cheap shot on your part. But in anycase, I worded it wrong and didn't mean to say "feel" but rather "believe" they are very much lacking. That I can almost sympathize for the I've suffered a similar concept of belief and paranoia: My religion and faith.

I really do not understand what is to love about these Nobodies other than that they were all together fine characters with incredible abilities. I do believe there is quite the fanbase on these characters too, but perhaps for the wrong reasons like worshipping their appearance and hardly their back story.

On another note, yes, one would think Xemnas's goal had some nobility to it, but you have to remember that they also do not know that lack of morality behind their actions, and thus they'd do anything to attain that goal. What's the problem with that you might ask? Xemnas is without morality, and has proven to be manipulative and dangerous. It's just not someone whom I would comepletely trust.
 
Last edited:
Vegnya said:
Yeah, I noticed that too late, but even so, I cannot help but think that was a cheap shot on your part. But in anycase, I worded it wrong and didn't mean to say "feel" but rather "believe" they are very much lacking. That I can almost sympathize for the I've suffered a similar concept of belief and paranoia: My religion and faith.

I really do not understand what is to love about these Nobodies other than that they were all together fine characters with incredible abilities. I do believe there is quite the fanbase on these characters too, but perhaps for the wrong reasons like worshipping their appearance and hardly their back story.

On another note, yes, one would think Xemnas's goal had some nobility to it, but you have to remember that they also do not know that lack of morality behind their actions, and thus they'd do anything to attain that goal. What's the problem with that you might ask? Xemnas is without morality, and has proven to be manipulative and dangerous. It's just not someone whom I would comepletely trust.
Click to expand...

Cheap shot? With what, and how so?

But then, if he lacks morality, because he does not have a heart, should we not feel sympathy for him, because it's the only thing he knows? Sora managed to show him a little leniance, after he was defeaten the first time around, so why can't we?

I'm not saying that we should love them to pieces and create fanbases for the misunderstood's of KH2, but I thought it would be interesting to bring this idea to people's attention.
 
Riku said:
Cheap shot? With what, and how so?

But then, if he lacks morality, because he does not have a heart, should we not feel sympathy for him, because it's the only thing he knows? Sora managed to show him a little leniance, after he was defeaten the first time around, so why can't we?

I'm not saying that we should love them to pieces and create fanbases for the misunderstood's of KH2, but I thought it would be interesting to bring this idea to people's attention.
Click to expand...

My small error regarding the contradictory "feel". Let's forget that though; moving on:

Sora did express some leniencey, but only because Xemnas, in vain, attempted to use rage to destroy Sora, like trying to be one who knows the heart. It was sad to know that Xemnas will never understand or remember how it's like to have a heart, but as the battle progressed, Xemnas only showed more contempt for Sora, meanwhile claiming to be eternally in the Twilight between the perpetual Darkness and Light.

Anyway, I'm not saying you can't sympathize. I'm just giving my take on it. I would eliminate Xemnas because he is dangerous. Does he seem pitiful for lacking morality and a heart, yes, but I cannot avoid the fact that he is just dangerous. He is not supposed to exist, and thus being the Nobody he is, its only right, I think, that Sora and Riku put an end to him. Hah, perhaps it is also because of pity that I'd wipe them (Nobodies) out.
 
Last edited:
Vegnya said:
My small error regarding the contradictory "feel". Let's forget that though; moving on:
Click to expand...
Sorry if that came across in a bad way. I didn't intend for that to be seen as a cheap shot, but it kind of backed up my argument by derailing yours, so I had to bring it up :P

Vegnya said:
Anyway, I'm not saying you can't sympathize. I'm just giving my take on it. I would eliminate Xemnas because he is dangerous. Does he seem pitiful for lacking morality and a heart, yes, but I cannot avoid the fact that he is just dangerous. He is not supposed to exist, and thus being the Nobody he is, its only right, I think, that Sora and Riku put an end to him. Hah, perhaps it is also because of pity that I'd wipe them (Nobodies) out.
Click to expand...
LOL, good recovery at the end there ;)
 
The poor guy just wants a heart, a life and sora just takes his hopes and his life away. Just let the poor guy do his plan. He doesn't kill people, only the heartless.
 
Huh?
well he orders the kidnap for kairi dont foget AND in FM he fights sora 'just to see and test his strength' so he attacked sora first when sora hadn't done anything to him.
And xemnas has 2 lightsabers so thats unfair to sora ^_^
And what do you mean he dosnt kill people?
What would happen is ansem the wise hadnt destroyed kingdom hearts?
Xemnas would have been whole again and would wreck havok.
He would try to kill sora because saix says 'Organisation XII has no further use for you' so they would have destroyed sora after he got the hearts for kingdom hearts.
And yeah he is hard on proud mode even with riku on your team :(
If anything is poor i say poor roxas cause Ansem the wise sent him to alternate twilight town to stay there
 
I had a lengthy analysis typed up in approach to this, but it got lost in logout.

So, for today, I shall just say, yes, I did pity him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top