Racism

[SaShman]

Ok I know that we have had a few threads on racism in the past, however while those threads have tended to deal with racism as a whole, the purpose of this thread is to focus on racism at a more personal level.

Anyway have you experienced racism? Have you ever personally been discriminated against because of your race? Have you ever witnessed an act of racism or heard about one from a first hand source?

My only run in with racism occurred when I was about 13. I was the only white person on a bus. Basically as I was getting off the bus someone said something to the effect of "On your way, you white motherfucker." At which point someone immediately responded "Enough with this colour bullshit." So objectively speaking, it wasn't that big a deal; I got off the bus, walked to my friends house and that was that.

I have heard a lot of stories about racism though. For example a few of my friends believe that they have been turned down from entering places like night clubs because of their race.

But I've also seen a great deal of racism first hand. From my experience, it would seem as though racism towards indigenous Australians is quite common in my age group. Often people who I hardly even know will utter racist phrases and expect me to just accept them as if they are ok.

Even though I've only been on the receiving end of racism once, I'd say that racism is quite strong where I live. Naturally, not everyone here is racist. But it isn't very hard to find if you look for it. But anyway, I'm interested to hear about your personal experiences with racism.

 

[Morrigan]

Personally I don't think I've ever been discriminated,except if I'm missing something.Me and my family are immigrants.We moved to another country for a better life,although I do have roots of the country I'm currently living in.The country where I was born in is kinda infamous from an incident long ago and not very favorable from the people of the people in my current country.My people have to deal with a lot of discrimination in their job and even in their everyday life.My mom has been discriminated as well when she was looking for a job once.It's something I hate and that I'm scared of.

 

[Not of Rust]

I grew up in a very rural area of the northeastern United States - racism was/is very common, and people were fairly open about it, probably because the area was 99% white at the time and they felt there was no one around to offend.

It's kind of surreal looking back, sitting there in Jr High and High School classes, and hearing classmates drop racial slurs right out in the open. The worst part is that teachers would generally respond with little more than "Don't use that word!". They looked at it as little more than a mild curse (hell, damn, etc).

I'm sure it's much different now as sensitivities have grown exponentially over the last decade.

In the workplace I've seen it on one occasion but that's it. I've seen many instances of cultural dominance or disproportion but not overt hate or discrimination. Oddly enough - the instances go against traditional race/cultural imbalances.

The first company I worked for - their finance department was absolutely dominated by Scots. Not without merit as they were all absolutely qualified to be where they were - just disproportionate seeing as we were as US company headquartered in Austin, TX. The CFO, 4 of 5 VPs and many, many directors were Scottish. The parent company had significant operations in East Kilbride and that campus did produce a large number of highly talented people which is probably the root as they did promote global rotation.

My current company - the other primary office in my part of the organization is in New Jersey. Both finance managers there are Chineese and roughly 70% of their team of about 20 analysts are Chineese which is way out of wack with the job pool. The non-Chineese employees are all long-term people that they inherited - their new hires are almost strictly Chineese. One of the managers is an absolutely brilliant guy but doesn't have a filter on what he says - he's made several comments about feeling that those of East Asian background perform better and has made some subtle indications that he's not a fan of several races as well as women. Honestly, I'm surprised the situation hasn't been flagged when data for diversity planning is reviewed.

 

[Vice Nebulosa]

I am currently a member of that most loathed "white guy" category, and I grew up in a fairly conservative small town populated by more of same: not much racial discrimination to be had. Religious, maybe, but the material for racial hatred, for the most part, was not there. I seem to remember one of my more damnable classmates remarking to the effect that "now that Obama is president, an African-American insurrection is now a possibility", though. *Rolls eyes*

Racism . . . frankly, I don't see the point -- who loses is obvious, but who wins by the activity is somewhat more ambiguous. "White Power" is one of the more obvious examples of modern racial hatred, and a ridiculous one, at that; if Europeans are somehow "superior" to blacks at this point (and here your criteria for saying so would need to be pretty precise), then it is for only one reason: luck of the geographic draw. They crossed the Atlantic first, had their New World fun, and constructed their sundry, productive little societies, whereas native Africans were brought into the fold as slave labour. Had conditions been more conducive thereto, Africans might have beat the Euros to the party (by which I mean conquering and genocide of North American natives), and "Black Power" would be the credo, and it would be equally illegitimate a statement as the "White" variant we know so well.

If the basis of your hatred is luck, then you, as a white-collared, white-faced upper classman, may comfortably sit back and look down upon the dark folk, thankful that the dice emerged as they did, perhaps believing that you "earned" it in some way. The "dark folk", on the other hand, are probably justified in the hatred they give in return. Go figure.

I'm sure it's much different now as sensitivities have grown exponentially over the last decade.

True, that. I am assuming that you mean this in a sense not entirely positive? Sensitivity and tolerance have officially gained priority for the global community, but let us be honest; the feelings that speech-givers and politicians are so ready to bemoan as having given rise to racism have not disappeared, or even necessarily receded. They have been masked -- public racial discrimination is deplored, by and large -- but it is analogous to the situation of making certain buildings "smoke-free"; the offending parties have been shoved out of sight of the normal populace, but it is not as if humankind has "evolved" out of smoking. The smokers are still there, standing the required ten meters from where the normal people go.

And with this body comes all sorts of tentacles; we cannot call it a "Christmas tree", because we want to appear as if we are a liberal civilization, on the cutting edge of tolerance. One should not criticize Mormon beliefs about Native Americans to passing evangelists, because, although you may genuinely dislike the connotations of those particular beliefs, other people might misconstrue it as hate speech. We must thus fear other people for their potential stupidity. We are becoming our own police, and we are liberal about when the guns come out.

 

[Exoskeleton]

I gues you could say I look like a "black guy" but I'm technically more Native american than anything. But anyway yea I've had soooooooo many people avoid me because of my race. I tend to be into things that are more related to...well...white people.

It's bad, yes I know but the easiest thing to do is shrug it off. If someone is discriminating against you, go to their superiors. We could do alot more about the issue if we started doing something to solve the problem....We could talk more about how to solve the problems of the world....

 

[Ohri-Jin]

@Vice Nebulosa - You speak with knowledge, where did you learn this?

I live in Holland/Netherlands and racism is one thing that excists in every part of the world, even races discriminating their own kind for example being in another tribe.

It is fear and envyness, jealousy .. You have Black ppl and White ppl, what does tht make me? Brown? I dont even know what to call myself, but I'll just call myself Black

anyways come to the netherlands ! most of the time here we from different kinds are united, mostly in coffee shops , I tell ya you see weird ppl in there...even hillbilly's

 

[CassinoChips]

if Europeans are somehow "superior" to blacks at this point (and here your criteria for saying so would need to be pretty precise), then it is for only one reason: luck of the geographic draw. They crossed the Atlantic first, had their New World fun, and constructed their sundry, productive little societies, whereas native Africans were brought into the fold as slave labour.

There is some evidence that a group of Afro-Phoenicians crossed the Atlantic in 600 BCE, about 1600 years before the Scandinavians did. Also, in terms of colonizing, there was a small group of about 100 Africans who were "dropped off" in what is now South Carolina in the early 1500s, and constructed a colony.

The difference between the African colony and the Europeans that would follow is that the African colony (and likely the Afro-Phoenicians) were absorbed and assimilated into their contemporary Native American tribes. The Europeans, on the other hand, consistently distanced themselves from the Native Americans, except when it was convenient and/or they could exploit them.

So it's not so much luck as it is an overarching desire to subjugate a supposedly inferior people.

 

[Vice Nebulosa]

You speak with knowledge, where did you learn this?

I speak with theory, and I am in fact a Wikipedia bot.

There is some evidence that a group of Afro-Phoenicians crossed the Atlantic in 600 BCE, about 1600 years before the Scandinavians did. Also, in terms of colonizing, there was a small group of about 100 Africans who were "dropped off" in what is now South Carolina in the early 1500s, and constructed a colony. The difference between the African colony and the Europeans that would follow is that the African colony (and likely the Afro-Phoenicians) were absorbed and assimilated into their contemporary Native American tribes.

What, seriously? Are you aware of what tribe that was? Sounds like a subject worth reading up on . . .

The Europeans, on the other hand, consistently distanced themselves from the Native Americans, except when it was convenient and/or they could exploit them.

So it's not so much luck as it is an overarching desire to subjugate a supposedly inferior people.

Well, granted, but I wonder what is being proposed here. Are we to believe that Africans possess(ed) some innate humanitarian qualities that prevented a massive African expansion early on, or do you not think that geographical considerations were responsible for shaping this mindset to begin with?

Hypothetically, if Europe and Africa switched places -- or better yet, tilt the Earth's axis a little, in such a way that Africa possessed similar geographic qualities to Europe, similar resources, etc. -- do you not believe that these "v2. Africans" would exhibit warlike behaviours analogous to those of colonial Europe? Would they, too, take an interest in the New World, and take European slaves for their own benefit? I suspect they would, else we are talking about an innately "black" and an innately "white" attitude of tolerance vs. manifest destiny, with which I tend to disagree.

We are agreed insofar that it was a militant and greedy paradigm that was responsible for European expansionism, but I would propose that such an attitude must arise from a people's exposure to certain geographical conditions -- and again, as far as we can tell, this is determined by luck. Cultures, political systems, group size, etc. are formed in response to the basic realities presented by a given group's access to food, shelter, what have you. Give Africans the same conditions as the Europeans in question, and I think this "overarching desire to subjugate" would be an African activity, as well. It all depends on what continent your infant derrière happens to land.

 

[SapphireStar]

When I lived in Bradford for 3 years I suffered some racial abuse. It was mainly from muslim girls and the odd boy, but oh my God the girls were terrible. "White bitch" was the favourite one used. And if you used a word back at them, like "packi" or something, that was it. You were dead. I hated it.

 

[Vice Nebulosa]

When I lived in Bradford for 3 years I suffered some racial abuse. It was mainly from muslim girls and the odd boy, but oh my God the girls were terrible. "White bitch" was the favourite one used. And if you used a word back at them, like "packi" or something, that was it. You were dead. I hated it.

Infuriating how that works; to hold your own in such a contest, it simply comes down to the number of people who share your race, and are supposedly "on your side". Just hearing about this sort of situation sets some unpleasant emotions roaring. Any experience with racists using their native tongues to mock you indirectly, by any chance?

*Smirk* Just realized how thoroughly racism pisses me off; it completely ignores individual merits. Instead of being loathed for some legitimate aspect of my personality, I might be given trouble simply for sharing certain pigments with frigging Joseph Smith, or something.

 

[Dionysos]

On a personal level I don't think I've felt discriminated against because of my race.
I'm white, and most of the people in the schools I went to were white also... However when I used to do running at Birchfield Harriers, of the people in my group I was the only white person for a long time. Most people were black. Yet I didn't get anything for that.

Quite a few of my friends throughout my life have been black or asian though. I tended to make friends with them more, probably because they felt like a minority (I tend to befriend those that feel left out). One of my closest friends now is asian etc too.

I don't think racism is big in this town at all, but I think it is among the older generations (in terminology at least, if not hate), but that's just because they were brought up in a world where people went to war with these people, or that Britain still owned / had recently owned their countries or had served under Britain in some way, so they were not used to them populating the country at all back then. Now everything merges into one a bit more, people that had settled here have been here for a few generations and no longer appear as much like outsiders.

However I'm aware in some areas it is worse than others. I think in areas where there are large groups of people of the same ethnicity grouped together, like in cities, racism ties in with gangs and identity. Luckily I'm not near any of that. Yeah some yobs will sound offensive words to people now and again, but they're just people that would shout offensive words to me too if they felt like it if I walked past them in a way they disliked or I caught their attention.

So I don't think racism is really that widespread here anymore. Then again, I sort of live under a log.

 

[CassinoChips]

What, seriously? Are you aware of what tribe that was? Sounds like a subject worth reading up on . . .

To be completely fair, it was a slave revolt of a Spanish colony. So it's not as if the Africans made an attempt an colonizing. But the fact remains, they lived with the local Indian tribes. As far which tribe it was, it's tough to tell, but the most likely candidates were the Pedee, the Waccamaw, and/or the Winyaw. Those were the three tribes that were in the area the Spaniards tried to colonize.

Well, granted, but I wonder what is being proposed here. Are we to believe that Africans possess(ed) some innate humanitarian qualities that prevented a massive African expansion early on, or do you not think that geographical considerations were responsible for shaping this mindset to begin with?

They were no more or less humanitarian than the Europeans. But both groups were marginalized in much the same manner by the Europeans. I just don't think that geography had anything to do with the European cultrues being more advanced than the African cultures. Because if you go back three or four hundred years, the major African cultures were far more advanced than their European counterparts. I don't know how much you know about African history, but Mansa Musa, a Malian (if I remember correctly) king, made a pilgrimage to Mecca and handed out gold like it was candy along the way. Single-handedly drove the price of gold down by 10% across the globe. Plus, Timbuktu was a renowned center of learning and culture. Enter the European slave trade, combined with the Renaissance and European imperialism, and you have a dramatic shift.

Hypothetically, if Europe and Africa switched places -- or better yet, tilt the Earth's axis a little, in such a way that Africa possessed similar geographic qualities to Europe, similar resources, etc. -- do you not believe that these "v2. Africans" would exhibit warlike behaviours analogous to those of colonial Europe? Would they, too, take an interest in the New World, and take European slaves for their own benefit? I suspect they would, else we are talking about an innately "black" and an innately "white" attitude of tolerance vs. manifest destiny, with which I tend to disagree.

Eh. I'd be reluctant to make that leap. Really, Africans could have easily been as driven to colonize, considering they were heavily Muslim in some areas, and could have furthered the Islamic diaspora had they had the technology to settle overseas. Really, if the printing press had been invented in Africa instead of Europe, I think we're writing a different story.

 

[Dee]

No, actually.

I wasn't aware of what my ancestry was until about the age of 15/16 when my mom finally met her real parents.

My mom, dad and aunt were all adopted, so even they weren't terribly sure. We found out that I was a mix of things ranging from Italian to African American. I do look like I've got a long, different line of ancestry. No one really knew what aspect of me to make fun of, lawl.

 

[Vice Nebulosa]

I don't think racism is big in this town at all, but I think it is among the older generations (in terminology at least, if not hate), but that's just because they were brought up in a world where people went to war with these people, or that Britain still owned / had recently owned their countries or had served under Britain in some way, so they were not used to them populating the country at all back then. Now everything merges into one a bit more, people that had settled here have been here for a few generations and no longer appear as much like outsiders.

Sounds like you could talk about war veterans here, as well. In their case, this "merging into one" takes place without their approval, and this must sometimes lead to racist attitudes. I imagine that, among the company of confidants, there are more than a few Vietnam vets who express hate and a sense of betrayal over the growth of the Asian population in North America. I will not defend such an attitude, but there is a sense that, once the final bodycount of such a racially-tinged war is made available, many veterans cannot re-integrate into the modern society that believes "Asians are our friends". This much is probably even justified; when one's only experience with a culture is the smile on the face of its soldier when a lucky shot kills your friend, there may be no returning from the resultant hatred. But society must move on, and it certainly will not wait for the veteran who is probably on his way out of existence by now.

Governments can anticipate this, pity it, perhaps offer some sort of compensation, but ultimately they move on to other matters. Occasionally military service demands the sacrifice of your "life" even if you are not killed in battle.

To be completely fair, it was a slave revolt of a Spanish colony. So it's not as if the Africans made an attempt an colonizing.

Yeah, that is a bit different. Would be quite something, if true, though. For a while after your appropriate post, I considered the possibility that such an attempt had been made, and it was one of those pieces of history that, for reasons that are unknown to us but probably quite specific to those who made the call, has been made to fade prematurely.

But hell, if it's the Spaniards and North America again, what else is new?

They were no more or less humanitarian than the Europeans.

Perhaps the wrong word, then. In general, I used it in response to your comment about Europeans having (and, I assumed by extension, Africans lacking) an "overarching desire to subjugate a supposedly inferior people". It seemed as if you were asserting that such a desire was "naturally European" and perhaps "naturally un-African", which I would tend to refute using previous arguments of geographical stimuli (that, if the roles and locations of Africans and European peoples were in some ways reversed, it would become clear that there are no attitudes that are simply innate to a culture without geographical, cultural, economic stimulus, as these conditions could all be hypothetically altered). But then, maybe you meant no such thing, and I set up my own argument to defeat. <_<

Eh. I'd be reluctant to make that leap. Really, Africans could have easily been as driven to colonize, considering they were heavily Muslim in some areas, and could have furthered the Islamic diaspora had they had the technology to settle overseas.

Agreed. In my view, I would simply add that "where they lived" had an invaluable impact on how the two continents and their cultures developed and advanced the way they did -- that if one race ever claimed innate superiority over the other ("White-" or "Black power" again), such an argument becomes ridiculous when you consider that Europeans would undoubtedly have pursued the same colonial treasures whether their skin pigmentation was light or dark.

 

[Exoskeleton]

There is some evidence that a group of Afro-Phoenicians crossed the Atlantic in 600 BCE, about 1600 years before the Scandinavians did. Also, in terms of colonizing, there was a small group of about 100 Africans who were "dropped off" in what is now South Carolina in the early 1500s, and constructed a colony.

The difference between the African colony and the Europeans that would follow is that the African colony (and likely the Afro-Phoenicians) were absorbed and assimilated into their contemporary Native American tribes. The Europeans, on the other hand, consistently distanced themselves from the Native Americans, except when it was convenient and/or they could exploit them.

So it's not so much luck as it is an overarching desire to subjugate a supposedly inferior people.

I'm not saying your wrong or anything but I learned something a little different...I didn't even know of "tribes" in Americas. I was told that there were some wealthy Africans and educated ones who moved to the Americas and participatey in slavery or something service...I forget what kind of service it was but it had something to do with poor people going and working for someone else....

But anyways....I hear about alot of racism from blacks and whites, but alot of minorities go through it to....Muslims ,especially un the US, are treatedpoorly because of Sept 11. But most americans who are treating them this way don't even have all their facts straight...

 

[Priestess-Mars]

I'm South Asian, meaning I'm from the "brown" decent because I'm Bengali. My skin tone is too light to be brown so I get discriminated by my own people and sometimes they think I'm half Chinese and half brown which they think is totally bad. I don't think I've ever been called any nasty names or anything except by my own people. When I went back to Bangladesh to visit my family everyone thought I was a foreigner and treated kinda badly.

 

[Apparent Amarant]

I have been discriminated against because of my poor upbringing. I also have been categorized as the same "group of person" as the other white men in my community that look down on people in my wage earnings group or the children of people who earn around my current wage. Being grouped with these people used to offend me because really we are two different classes. Just because I'm a white man doesn't mean I have more in common with another white man then I do with a black man. They view us as trash and you are treated this way in school by the majority of kids who have money and later in life as well in the work-related world. This may not be racism but it certainly exists and I realize when I was younger I myself discriminated against people with money for this reason. I thought they were all pricks and if someone had a lot of money I did not like them. A few years back(I'm 22) I did realize that this was wrong, and changed my perception. I've never been a bigot or racist. I've always been appalled by it so I realized my view towards people with money was wrong. This isn't really racism, but I did experience discrimination because of this and did also discriminate because of it.

I've encountered quite a few racist people who think they are the most open minded people in the world. They are the type to point out racism on TV or a sterotype and declare how wrong it is and then they commit small acts of racism themselves without knowing it. Any generalization about a group of people is prejudice. So many people are racist and bigots to such a small degree that even those who they judge in advance would have no idea.

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

Me and my friends joke about it all the time. I'm white, they're black and the other is Mexican. We'll tell racist jokes back to back all day. We'll even start using the most stereotypical comments about our race.

I told my black friend to shut up and go eat some chicken and drink some grape soda. I told my Mexican friend to tell his family to stop jumping the boarder. In return, they both told me to stop living in a trailer listening to country music. XD

Does my black friend only eat chicken? No.
Does my mexican friend have family that jumps the border? No.
Do I live in a trailer while listening to country music? No.

We all find it perfectly okay to talk about and we have a great time doing it.

However, when you get an actually racist person... Oi... That can be the most annoying thing ever. They'll spout off saying the first thing that comes to their head while trying to make other races feel bad about their skin color.

Racism is stupidity, and people really need to learn to drop it, and start turning it into a laugh.

 

[Vice Nebulosa]

Me and my friends joke about it all the time. I'm white, they're black and the other is Mexican. We'll tell racist jokes back to back all day. We'll even start using the most stereotypical comments about our race.

Nice. That really does seem to be the most useful way to handle it; I too find it quite fulfilling when I am able to treat something our society takes extremely seriously with irreverence, particularly if the issue in question is as misguided as racism. Provided all the victimized parties are "in" on the joke, too, the humour can only escalate as more and more outrageous stereotypes are co-opted for your amusement.

Almost a shame that you haven't alluded to having any German friends; it does not seem as if you would shy away from some lighthearted World War references.

 

[LittleMissDismissed]

Everyone experiences racism, that's why its such a joke in suburban class areas and on the internet. Sure there's those people down south who haven't gotten over the civil war, gangs, and angry white kids. But on the internet?! I'm sorry, but I see no threat from racism in this world wide web since most everyone sees it as a joke or a way to piss people off. Go make racism rallies IRL and make an actual difference won't do anything on the internet.