Remastered Rant

[Pascal Lindner]

Hello fellas,


I am in great need to pass on my opinion about the Remaster.
I was replaying the Classics 7-10 since the holidays, but when trying to play either Remaster, 8 and 10, I just couldn't. Been a Fan of the Series since I was a child, so I've been playing the ps1 titles since release. I've completed all of them at least 6-7 times, and @ Gamescom while I was standing in line to play the 7 Remake, I came upon the 8 Remaster and went with it.

Goddamn, such a mistake. Missing dialogue, missing npcs, and no option to turn of the sissy R3 button, which will be pressed accidentally from time to time. I had to uninstall and instead had a wonderful 2013 + RaW version run. My 9 run was splendid, had Treasure Rank S and already missed the playthrough while still at it.

Yesterday I wanted to start FF 10. I used some Mods for the Remaster, such as the 8k textures and the "ps2 Tidus by Ruz". but to no avail. I still had to quit about when reaching kilika temple. For this entry my concern is Yuna's face. The Remastered version just

doesn't make you fall in love with Yuna like it used to!

After quitting cause it messed up my masculinity, really badly, I had to start up some dark souls and watch crank to get over the influence even.
It's no joke. I'm a rather sensitive person plus what you would consider alpha, so... it messed up my dingdong and I felt a malicious cruelty behind it.

No worries though, I downloaded the FF 10 iso and emulate the PS2, opened up the intro and... YUNA LOOKS GREAT again!
without her original face, we cannot direct the self-insert sexuality of Tidus to the obvious love-interest Yuna any longer. It becomes a ... cuc to play a whimpy crybaby that... also wears ridiculous shoes in HD, has a less masculine appearance than Auron and Kimahri, doesn't know anything, is just a lost kid they'd have to daycare.
Even Lulu is more emancipated.

The thesis is that for SQEN to cash in money from remastered titles, they'd have to give in to some kind of gay toll.
Don't get me started on Kingdom Hearts, I despise it. Never liked anything Disney in the first place. Is it the Enix in Square thats the problem maybe? with x being close to s, it is one letter short of another meaning...
I just feel like the industry got some kind of regulation police or sth. or it's a western - asian thing, I don't know.

Forgive my wording if it upsetted anyone. I just felt that I needed to put my opinion on things out there. Can't let the embers of hope go cold.
The original titles are still alpha as fudge. Pass them on to your offspring!

I'll be enjoying my ps2 spira now, so I won't bother to answer right away. Anyways, please take my posting more as a warning rather than an offense.


God bless and have an otherwise wonderful evening, Pascal

 

[Interlude65]

I TOTALLY agree with everything you've said! Hence why I've been playing FFX in it's original glory on our PS2 thru an HDMI adapter, and getting to see Yuna's cute and pretty face exactly like it should be. I've said this already elsewhere on the forum, but as far as the FFX/X-2 HD remaster is concerned, a lot of the games' original assets were found to be lost when the remaster was made, and because of that, most of them had to be re-created from scratch. Sad, isn't it? Ah well...shit happens, I guess!

 

[Paddy McGee]

Seems a bit silly to me, honestly.

Personally? The changes don't really bug me at all - I play the game for the story and the characters themselves. A little change around the chin or eyes doesn't bother me (I think I'd take more exception to the lazy-ish VA work from the game, honestly).

There are clearly changes though (of course there is). You can see it below.

For context for people who've not actually played the remasters or the originals:

Yuna's face, as that's what has previously been mentioned:

Source is Digital Foundry's video:

 

[Pascal Lindner]

Thank you for your replies!

The handed comparision is a perfect demonstration. The remaster makes me wonder if yuna's intentions are good in the first place.
She could have some twist to her personality, simply by jugding the face.
Whereas in the ps2 version, she's pure, way gentler and more humane.
Not as stiff, cold, god-complex and narcisstic.

You would recognize a hint of sorrow in the ps2 expression, appropriate to the scenario.
In the remaster, that's not the case. That epiphany is creeping actually.

Their personalities are not the same.

It's your right to play the game however you'd like. No need to tell me I am silly, since I apologized beforehand.
So much for not being offended. Maybe you defend out of motives unaware, induced by what bugged me to begin with?

 

[Miko]

I haven't played the remaster for X to the very end but... I wasn't bothered by this? Is it perhaps because I'm a girl?

I looked at the three pictures McGee posted and the only difference I can see that would be maybe a bit bothersome is how her eyes are a bit more defined and sharper.

I feel like that if the things that was listed about the VIII remaster were what was wrong with the X remaster then I would maybe understand where you're coming from. Just the appearance of Yuna alone wouldn't make me personally want to ditch the game immediately and go back to the original.

But people see their favorite FF # as sacred, so I can understand why someone would be really bothered by something like this. To each their own, I suppose! But I do hope your dingdong is going to be okay!

 

[Interlude65]

Seems a bit silly to me, honestly.

Personally? The changes don't really bug me at all - I play the game for the story and the characters themselves. A little change around the chin or eyes doesn't bother me (I think I'd take more exception to the lazy-ish VA work from the game, honestly).

There are clearly changes though (of course there is). You can see it below.

For context for people who've not actually played the remasters or the originals:

Yuna's face, as that's what has previously been mentioned:
View attachment 8858
Source is Digital Foundry's video:

Ugh, that render of Yuna in the PS4 version makes me want to fucking vomit...her face is SO punchable in that version; now THAT'S something that'll make someone question whether she's a spoiled princess or not!

The remaster makes me wonder if yuna's intentions are good in the first place.
She could have some twist to her personality, simply by jugding the face.
Whereas in the ps2 version, she's pure, way gentler and more humane.
Not as stiff, cold, god-complex and narcisstic.

You would recognize a hint of sorrow in the ps2 expression, appropriate to the scenario.
In the remaster, that's not the case. That epiphany is creeping actually.

Their personalities are not the same.

Exactly!! Her face in the PS3/PS4 versions makes it seem like she's got some kind of darker, more twisted ulterior motive she's trying to conceal...

Spoiler

and for those who listened to the audio drama and read the novella, it becomes even more apparent since it is revealed in those things that she re-summoned Sin because Spira had no common enemy to channel their energy towards; in other words, she basically became WORSE than the very things she was railing against in the beginning.

 

[Ilyena]

Well, if you play a remaster, you should expect changes. They may not be to your liking but it's going to happen. Her face is softer and more child-like in the original but there's nothing inherently terrible about the remastered version.

After quitting cause it messed up my masculinity, really badly, I had to start up some dark souls and watch crank to get over the influence even.
It's no joke. I'm a rather sensitive person plus what you would consider alpha, so... it messed up my dingdong and I felt a malicious cruelty behind it.

If your dingdong is that sensitive, perhaps you should get it some therapy.

No worries though, I downloaded the FF 10 iso and emulate the PS2, opened up the intro and... YUNA LOOKS GREAT again!
without her original face, we cannot direct the self-insert sexuality of Tidus to the obvious love-interest Yuna any longer. It becomes a ... cuc to play a whimpy crybaby that... also wears ridiculous shoes in HD, has a less masculine appearance than Auron and Kimahri, doesn't know anything, is just a lost kid they'd have to daycare.
Even Lulu is more emancipated.

He's a stranger in a strange land and also a teenager who grew up with an abusive douchebag father. Cut him a little slack. As to the ridiculous shoes, all I can say is have you seen his pants? Because those are ridiculous. Lulu is an adult and a guardian; she should be emancipated

The thesis is that for SQEN to cash in money from remastered titles, they'd have to give in to some kind of gay toll.
Don't get me started on Kingdom Hearts, I despise it. Never liked anything Disney in the first place. Is it the Enix in Square thats the problem maybe? with x being close to s, it is one letter short of another meaning...
I just feel like the industry got some kind of regulation police or sth. or it's a western - asian thing, I don't know.

What?

Forgive my wording if it upsetted anyone. I just felt that I needed to put my opinion on things out there. Can't let the embers of hope go cold.
The original titles are still alpha as fudge. Pass them on to your offspring!

Again, what? Why is your sexuality so strongly tied into a video game series?

 

[Pascal Lindner]

There is no dongding therapy except letting it do its nature don't you think? I do cut Tidus his slack, in the ps2 version, that is!

The game got feminized by the remaster. future generations will experience a more beta version of the game.
It led me to conspirate about possible reasons.
It's not strongly tied, I just witnessed the immediate influence and acted upon it.

Again, you pointing out a therapy is a sign of being offended, and I clearly stated beforehand not to be. So excuse me, again.
Why so defensive? I really wonder. The remaster is terrible in my opinion.

 

[Ilyena]

The dingdong therapy thing was a joke. I'm definitely not offended. And you are absolutely entitled to to your opinion that the remaster is terrible.

I was a bit confused at your choice of wording in the second and third paragraphs that I quoted. I see now that you were trying to say that the game was more feminized. I guess I'm just not sure what that means. Tidus was definitely whiny and annoying in the original as well (and his pants and shoes were still stupid). Yuna's face is much different in the remaster as well. It looks like they tried to make it slimmer and her lips smaller. And overall it's more defined because of the better graphics but I don't really see that as feminizing. Almost like they were trying to make her sexier, maybe.

As for Kingdom Hearts, well, it was definitely an attempt to cash in but I think more so with younger people, especially those that grew up watching those 80's and 90's Disney movies and cartoons.

 

[Pascal Lindner]

I appreciate.

I am saying the same about the 8 remaster, maybe there it's a little bit more apparent? Foremost because of that stinky R3 button that heals your party, and cannot be removed, no matter what you try.

I played until the bossfight where you protect ellone from monsters in the training grounds and then accidentally pressed R3. It immediately ruined the sense of challenge or having a masculine experience to me. At this point, I uninstalled the game.

As the character designs in the remasters are more closely to an KH-esque style, I feel a general direction that SQEN is pushing, but I dislike it very much.

Thank you

 

[Dionysos]

I’ve never played the Remastered version, but seeing the screenshots and comparison clips I can agree on some points.

I doubt there were any deliberate attempts to make the characters look gay or anything. I don't understand that point.

Although I checked with Dr. Google and found this:

I guess Tidus had a squarer jaw in the PS2 version which got lost over time? I do prefer the PS2 appearance, but maybe because that was the appearance I grew up with. The others look more childlike by comparison, so maybe that might be part of your issue with the redesign here.

Many details are improved by the Remaster. The bubble effects on Tidus’ Brotherhood sword are easier to notice and are significantly more impressive, for example.

I can agree that the softer definitions work better for a character like Yuna. For her face at least. As Ilyena says, maybe they were trying to make her more sexy by some standards, but in my opinion I prefer her original appearance. While the upgrade hasn’t messed up my dingdong, Yuna looked more 'natural' in her original PS2 form. Her eyes in the other screenshots are a bit harsher and I can see that the emotion is conveyed slightly differently. Probably not enough to notice if I wasn't comparing it closely, but in a subtle way, perhaps.

The change was probably just an attempt to make them look higher definition and forgetting that certain features of their faces could be lost.

 

[Pascal Lindner]

I regret having indroduced the blupblip as a thread theme, but thank you for your reply nonetheless.

I really do think the changes were concerning.
The original textures have less resolution, maybe the eyebrows are a bit blurrier (when playing), but that's about it.
Upscaling the emulated resolution, to me, the ps2 faces have more detail.

On the Nexusmods page where you find the remastered mods, there are 3-4 entries for making his face ps2 like again.
Somehow this face became an issue for a handful of eager redesigners...
I started the thread because even with those installed, Yuna's face instead became an unerasable issue that cut the deal.

The remaster Tidus isn't much of a ladiesman.
Deliberate or not, the final result went from a spark in his eye to a stare.
The hair as well. Went from sunnyboy to wet dog.

Staring into the abyss I am coming close to vomitting.

They used motion capture, so the cutscenes are elaborate and rich in emotional response.
The remaster took much away from it. Playing the games in comparison would be the go-to here. Nevermind though. ^^

How the original Tidus is all alone by himself on his outdated platform whilst the
uncanny valley drained of emotion remaster Tiduses have gained in numbers on all platforms available.
Fuel of nightmares.

We all agree that the emotionality conveyed by both versions is differing from one another.

When they made the original game, which took time to complete, those character designers were in argument with the whole team
until they finalized their decision and made him look this way. In accordance to what they all thought was the best solution.

Years later, they came up with that, under the same premise.


What the heck

 

[ravensecho]

I'm going to be honest: I played through and completed the originals when they came out. my playstation 1 was played up until... maybe a year ago? and i only stopped because the laser got screwed up and wont read my discs any more. So it was only then that i started looking elsewhere for the chance to play them. ff7 and 9 were really easy to get my hands on but i couldnt believe they hadnt ported ff8, then i heard about what happened with the files for ff8 (apparently a huge amount got deleted somehow over the years so they needed to build it back up more or less from scratch)

And as a fan of both the old days and the new graphics i dont really understand where you are coming from. Yuna now makes me feel the same way she did back on the ps2 days. Tidus was always less manly than kimahri and auron, he does have a swimmers physique and not a warriors one after all. as for missing NPC's that you mentioned,can you tell me where they might be? I havent seen any difference between my ff8 on ps1 and my remaster on ps4. and the same goes for my ffx/x-2 bundle

Remasters/remakes are a good thing when executed correctly. the new crash and spyro for example reintroduced those characters to the world. players new and old came back to the series which reinvigorated them. This new version of ff7 could do the same! I think it sucks that its not going to be ATB and they will probably make it into a series off ff7 games (apparently the first 'installment' is just up to when you leave midgar) but thats fine in the long run.

 

[Pascal Lindner]

I am glad you can enjoy them. But there is an evident difference that can also make a difference for each individually.

Yeah, when you finish the dollet mission and return to balamb, in the hotel there is a man at the reception, but in the remaster, there isn't. It straight up was the case in my playthorugh, don't know if there are any conditions to be met. It's haunting, because it would give the new versions a vibe of undead presence. That's what I felt at least. Had a shiver.

This was the first and only I noticed, but definitely enough to tell me it's a trash port.
You could argue they didn't want(?!) to redo the models, but in effect it breaks your perception of the game.
Subconsciously you'd remember someone standing there. And that's trash to me. No excuse.
I am glad you asked, cause you will believe me on this one at least.


The remake will be awesome! I've had the chance to play the inner reactor part of the opening bombing mission at gamescom.
The recent trailers got me mega hyped!
As for FF7, they cannot screw up. It's a new rendition and will work as an addition to the game, not as a replacement. 7 is my favourite btw.


The only thing that ever bugged me was that bugenhagen called life energy "spirit energy", which was poor wording similar to
"he-man". The only language I could ever see mocking the game's meaning and philosophy was "spirit energy".

HEY! if you wanna conspirate about sth...
There is an actual oil drilling company called "Spirit Energy" - just like Shinra! Reallife Shinra! They founded 2017!
IS THAT ON PURPOSE?! To oppress Final Fantasy? Like WUT?


What a huge striking coincidence.

haha I almost forgot to tell anybody about this. Thanks a lot! Makes me happy. We should go out and bash Spirit Energy sometimes.

Very glad you will see there are actually NPC's missing. Finally someone!

 

[ravensecho]

#lifestreamnotspiritstream

But yeah, Ill take a closer look when i play it next, was just wondering what you had seen that i had failed to spot, but then again i am taking my time with the remaster 8 purely because i waited so long for it to come out XD Also wanted to try the "OP by level 3" plan at some point so i was going to try that

 

[Dionysos]

I am glad you can enjoy them. But there is an evident difference that can also make a difference for each individually.

Yeah, when you finish the dollet mission and return to balamb, in the hotel there is a man at the reception, but in the remaster, there isn't. It straight up was the case in my playthorugh, don't know if there are any conditions to be met. It's haunting, because it would give the new versions a vibe of undead presence. That's what I felt at least. Had a shiver.

I’ve tried but I can’t find anywhere that lists other instances of missing NPCs. I guess it might not be documented yet and it takes people like yourselves (people who remember some of the more obscure NPCs in the original game) to draw attention to their absences.

Do you happen to know if there are many instances of this? Or only a handful?

Maybe they decided to remove some characters when they decided that they had ran out of time to update their models. I know there are also some NPCs that haven’t been rendered to the same quality and have just been left in their original forms.

For example:

Source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/09/03/final-fantasy-8-remastered-pc-graphics/

The contrast can be a bit unsettling. They probably decided that they couldn’t simply delete half of the class of students so they left that bit in, but in other cases maybe they figured that they could get away with it.

I’m not sure. Again, I don’t know how common this issue is throughout the entire Remaster.


So a bit like the FFX remaster, some details might be lost, but others might become more defined and improved. It would be interesting to weigh up the pros and cons of these remasters.

 

[Pascal Lindner]

Hi!

Unfortunately I didn't play through the remaster. I quit after noticing.

A scene where Headmaster Cid was pixelated as in your example was the worst- His depleted dialogue was something like "go now".
Because he looks a lot like Robin Williams, who took his own life, it was horrifying.
Pressing the button again and again felt like being repelled.

They look lifeless.

Only this one example, but I won't bother myself to research. I am happy to see your engagement though!

 

[Ilyena]

I’ve tried but I can’t find anywhere that lists other instances of missing NPCs. I guess it might not be documented yet and it takes people like yourselves (people who remember some of the more obscure NPCs in the original game) to draw attention to their absences.

Do you happen to know if there are many instances of this? Or only a handful?

Maybe they decided to remove some characters when they decided that they had ran out of time to update their models. I know there are also some NPCs that haven’t been rendered to the same quality and have just been left in their original forms.

For example:

Source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/09/03/final-fantasy-8-remastered-pc-graphics/

The contrast can be a bit unsettling. They probably decided that they couldn’t simply delete half of the class of students so they left that bit in, but in other cases maybe they figured that they could get away with it.

I’m not sure. Again, I don’t know how common this issue is throughout the entire Remaster.


So a bit like the FFX remaster, some details might be lost, but others might become more defined and improved. It would be interesting to weigh up the pros and cons of these remasters.

This is bizarre and just strikes me as lazy. It's very jarring to have two very different graphic-quality characters side by side in the same scene. Good lord, I just viewed that whole article and I just don't see the point. If you're going to do a shoddy job, why even bother?

 

[Dionysos]

This is bizarre and just strikes me as lazy. It's very jarring to have two very different graphic-quality characters side by side in the same scene. Good lord, I just viewed that whole article and I just don't see the point. If you're going to do a shoddy job, why even bother?

Yeah, it is odd and does strike me as rushed. Whether that is down to laziness and hoping that people wouldn't notice, oversight, or maybe that the pressure was on and they had a deadline to reach, we might never know.

Though I do have to emphasise that I haven't yet played the Remaster, so this is only something I have found which has been said about the game with a number of screenshots as evidence. I have heard great things about the Remaster from many others who have played it and enjoyed it. I wonder if, on balance, these oversights might be slight and not have an adverse effect on the product as a whole. Opinions will differ on this point, naturally.

They don't look slight in the screenshots, but there are many examples where things have improved too. I guess people would have to play the game with these issues in mind and then they might not get disappointed when they encounter a blurry character talking to a higher quality enhanced character.

 

[Pascal Lindner]

When your character is detailed and you approach these others, who are glued to or enwebbed in their surroundings, they don't even seem to be able to open their mouths. they're just part of a panorama. Like immobile objects filled with an unholy spirit, as if they were ghosts.

The models were technically well humanized for their time. They were one of the mayor eye-catchers of the game. It was a sexy game because of them.
The theme of the remaster became death very easily by tweaking the models here and there to create a chasm of familiarity or bewilderedness.
Missing persons, people who don't look alive, people who died in real life.

Really messes me up.