Rinoa Rant

[Ashe B'nargin]

Does anybody feel like Rinoa is a bad female lead ?

Feel like Rinoa could be the worst Final Fantasy lead lady.

- When Rinoa and Squall meet each other. Rinoa is already dating Seifer and really at that moment she really has no reason to reject the guy. But just feel a little ticked off that she flirts around with Squall like she isn't dating anybody. I mean, argh. Poor Seifer.

- During the Parade she runs off alone to see a dangerous Witch by- herself ? And then ends up causing trouble for both Squall and Irvine. Mean Rinoa almost screwed up, Squall and Irvine's undercover mission. Both of them could of gotten caught and shot. Not to mention she made both Irvine and Squall panic and stress out.

- She doesn't try and stop Seifer from turning away from Evil ?- In fact she really doesn't care about Seifer at all anymore - ? Okay Seifer's gone bad, let's jump towards the next attractive guy in the flock ? ( Squall )

-When both of the main Gardens head into war. The only thing Rinoa cares about is Squall's ring ? and makes Zell panic and and stress out in the middle of chaos so he can grab a copy of Squall's Ring for Rinoa ?

- Then even though she's scared of fighting/ dislikes seeing violence. She Fights in a war anyways and when she gets into trouble (AGAIN ) She creates more panic for everybody. More Panic for Zell and make Squall stress out to the max.

- Yeah falls into coma. Squall is worried. More panic/ stress for Squall. >_>

- When she gains the powers that were once from Edea/ Marton. Just feel like Rinoa brings more sadness and heavy emotions onto the group. Everybody is trying to be strong and get ready to fight the final last evil. But just feel like Rinoa's rants about saying how she could die/ Squall's going to end up killing me. Just brings down the group a little bit.

- She's way too open about her feelings and HER emotions. What about Irvine's sadness, what about Zell or Seifer or even Quistis's feelings ? Selphie's ?

If you feel like you agree/ disagree on this please speak up/ share your views :3
[ Especially you Rinoa lovers/ Haters out there ]

Just feel like Rinoa was a major stepdown from the strong and mighty Tifa we saw and witnessed kicking Shrina/ Sephiroth butt in VII.

 

[MVP]

I like Rinoa. She's a little unique compared to other lead females. She does some dumb stuff, but her personality is her own, and it fits well with Squalls, to make it a good story.

 

[Robbiedbee]

Great post!

I have to agree on pretty much all points. I particularly didn't like the way she messed Squall about with regards to Seifer. I don't remember so well, but I remember her asking about Seifer on one of the first times she and Squall meet. She is naive, petulant and childish.

Plus, like you say, he flaunts her emotions around a lot, and it's Quistis that I feel for. Like FFVII, there is a nasty little love triangle in FFVIII, and although Quistis can be a little naive herself (for an instructor, at least) she is a lot more sensitive, as you can tell from her meeting with Squall following his graduation ball when they go through the training area. Plus, I feel a little sorry for Squall, because he makes a song and dance of the fact that he is quiet, if a little socially inept, and I don't feel it is fair on him, because in the main, it only serves to make it more and more reclusive.

 

[Totoro]

Great post!

I have to agree on pretty much all points. I particularly didn't like the way she messed Squall about with regards to Seifer. I don't remember so well, but I remember her asking about Seifer on one of the first times she and Squall meet. She is naive, petulant and childish.

Plus, like you say, he flaunts her emotions around a lot, and it's Quistis that I feel for. Like FFVII, there is a nasty little love triangle in FFVIII, and although Quistis can be a little naive herself (for an instructor, at least) she is a lot more sensitive, as you can tell from her meeting with Squall following his graduation ball when they go through the training area. Plus, I feel a little sorry for Squall, because he makes a song and dance of the fact that he is quiet, if a little socially inept, and I don't feel it is fair on him, because in the main, it only serves to make it more and more reclusive.

Interesting. I mean I also thought she was a bit whingy, but I've never considered this. She IS very open about her thoughts and feelings, but I think it's perhaps it's what Squall needed to shake him up a bit, make him realise that you are stronger if you depend on people, and them likewise.

Poor Seifer! HA! He never seemed to care about anyone else about from himself, pursuing his own dreams without regard for anyone else. So I doubt his attachment to Rinoa was anything long lasting.

 

[Platinum_Lies]

I never felt that Rinoa and Seifer were dating. For me, that relationship always seemed more like freinds, especially once I read the original Japanaese dialogue that dealt with this issue. Also, the fact that she doesn't react strongly to his defection definetely implies a more platonic relationship.

If it were more romantic on Rinoa's part, it was far more an unrequited love, seeing as Seifer never stayed around to long (both in game or from what little can be gleamed about their time spent together).

As to some of the other points... well, love is a bit complex and often irrational, so when Rinoa focuses on Squall over other situations it isn't that horrible. Her feelings about the whole Ultimecia deal are completely understandable. I would be freaked out and anxious about the whole ordeal as well, maybe eve to a near crippling degree.

Some of her hypocritical stances aren't all that noteworthy, especially in regards to pacifism. True pacifists are rare. Most declared pacifists seem to act just as Rinoa does when confronted with similar situations. Human nature is reliant on the desire to protect oneself and those one loves; if violence is required, then most people would use it.

 

[EVA]

No offense to anyone who likes Rinoa, but I have to completely agree that she is an absolutely horrid main lead. There is absolutely no excuse I'm willing to give her, to act the way she does. :/

I don't like how wishy-washy she is between Squall and Seifer. I mean, when Seifer 'dies' she says she doesn't know if she loves him or not. Something along those lines, and, it's like 'O he's dead now time for moar Squall lol'. Of course, not in that manner... but she is a very immature character, quite irresponsible, and a prime example of someone incredibly weak. I found it very mature of Quistis to apologize to Rinoa during the time at the mansion, especially since Rinoa didn't deserve it. =/ I can't believe she'd get so pissed off at her father for simply trying to protect her. I don't know how she can find so much to complain about, when everyone around her is having their own struggles, some much larger than hers. She's got people hypnotized into calling her Princess, for goodness sake.

Irvine didn't deserve to be kicked around either. =P

 

[Fusionist]

Hm, interesting replies. I admit that at one point I thought she was kewl, and then I really hated her, but I've settled now on just irritation of her character.

In general, she doesn't really feel like a female lead I could enjoy. She's the cliche damsel in distress no two ways about it. I don't entirely hate damsels in distress but most of the situations where she needs saving was put into motion by her own actions.

I know that she is sincere with wanting to help in majority of the situations, but she's just so damn bratty and childish more often than not. I really find it hard not to believe that her opposition against Galbadia's rule was just a way to go against her father for their own stunted relationship.

I think I could have enjoyed her more if she didn't come off as whiny, bratty, and especially nagging.

I know people say she's letting her feelings out as a way to get through to Squall, but honestly I just sympathize with Squall with having to put up with her untimely bitchin'.

Not to mention I loathe the idea of Squall and Rinoa paired together. It's canon, but I still hate it so DAMN much. The progression as a pairing annoyed me since although Squall/Rinoa was the main focus of FFVIII, I just didn't enjoy how it happened over-all.

Squall first met when Rinoa was still "with" Seifer. I'll concede that I'm not sure if I could call them in a dating status, but we know at the very least they were intimate with eachother and that they two had mutual feelings of some sort for eachother. With how Rinoa discloses to the group after they find out Siefer was supposedly executed of fond memories "in the summer", and how Seifer taunts her about it if she's in your party when you confront him in Disc 2. As well at the part before Seifer throws Rinoa to Adel, there was brief "moment" that shows gamers that Seifer isn't such a selfish jackass (I really do sympathize with the poor guy a lot >.<).

I'm not saying that Rinoa should "stand by her man" when he was lured by Ultimecia (when she was controlling Edea anyways), but she gave up so easily on Seifer, and it really did seem like she attached herself quickly to Squall after the fact.

Someone else said it on this site and it stuck with me since I thought it made a lot of sense, but Rinoa's character was really defined by her role in the story as the eventual love interest of the hero. They just tried to make her more important by making her a sorceress, and if it wasn't for that part, I find it really hard for her to have as much face time in the game as she did

 

[Platinum_Lies]

The English translation lent itself to a love triangle, but the original Japanese leans far more heavely to friendship, but possibly a minor dating relationship. In the original version, there is no real implication of true love or physical intimacy between Seifer and Rinoa. Hell, in both versions there is no physical intimacy between Rinoa and anyone until the last cutscene.

Also, despite his flaws, Seifer is not the type to so casually drop an intimate relationship on the level many gamers ascribe to Rinoa and him. He is very much a romantic at heart. As quick as some point to Rinoa "dumping" Seifer, Seifer was apparently just as quick to turn to Edea. If anything, that furthers the theory that the relationship had progressed no further than the initial stages.

 

[Ashe B'nargin]

Not to mention I loathe the idea of Squall and Rinoa paired together. It's canon, but I still hate it so DAMN much. The progression as a pairing annoyed me since although Squall/Rinoa was the main focus of FFVIII, I just didn't enjoy how it happened over-all.

Yeah dislike Rinoa x Squall too.

They hate each other/ fight with each other all through the game. Until Rinoa falls into coma. Then POOF !- They both magically love each other .

Poor Seifer! HA! He never seemed to care about anyone else about from himself, pursuing his own dreams without regard for anyone else. So I doubt his attachment to Rinoa was anything long lasting.

Seifer may of seemed arrogant. But really, the man was just up in ''Fantasy Land ''
He just liked to pretend that he was the Hero/ savior of the damsel. Ultimecia abused his dreams and ambitions and just turned him into, basically her personal puppet.
But yeah, most of the time- Seifer wasn't really in Balamb, he was up in the clouds.

Plus, like you say, he flaunts her emotions around a lot, and it's Quistis that I feel for. Like FFVII, there is a nasty little love triangle in FFVIII, and although Quistis can be a little naive herself (for an instructor, at least) she is a lot more sensitive, as you can tell from her meeting with Squall following his graduation ball when they go through the training area. Plus, I feel a little sorry for Squall, because he makes a song and dance of the fact that he is quiet, if a little socially inept, and I don't feel it is fair on him, because in the main, it only serves to make it more and more reclusive.

Yeah ^^ feel really sorry for Quistis too. In Final Fantasy VII Aerith and Tifa both knew that they liked Cloud. But they understood that, and managed to become friends.
But Rinoa didn't really care about Quitstis's emotions at all. Remember the bit at the beach where Quistis admits that she liked Squall until Rinoa came into the picture.
And Rinoa just changes the subject. Tifa and Aerith would of spoke to each other. ^^

Yeah Squall does try and mention to Rinoa several times that he struggles to be social and haves issues trusting people. But she just keeps on brainwashing him/ hitting him on the head with the frying pan until she has her way, so to speak. She just tries to make Squall automatically become social and outgoing, so he is datable for her.

 

[Totoro]

Yeah ^^ feel really sorry for Quistis too. In Final Fantasy VII Aerith and Tifa both knew that they liked Cloud. But they understood that, and managed to become friends.
But Rinoa didn't really care about Quitstis's emotions at all. Remember the bit at the beach where Quistis admits that she liked Squall until Rinoa came into the picture.
And Rinoa just changes the subject. Tifa and Aerith would of spoke to each other. ^^

I think Quistis is confused about her feelings. She's drawn to Squall but doesn't know why, she thinks she loves him, but tells herself its wrong as he is one of her pupils.

Spoiler

When they eventually discover that the use of GF's erase parts of the memory, and when they all start to remember bits about the orphanage, Qusitis remembers that she was always looking after Squall when Sis(Ellone) leaves and Squall needs comforting but ends up going inside himself

So I never thought there was much of a love triangle going on, well not be the end of the game anyway.

 

[noctits]

It is obligatory that I post in this thread. What with a signature that speaks heavily for itself.

Hm, interesting replies. I admit that at one point I thought she was kewl, and then I really hated her, but I've settled now on just irritation of her character.

In general, she doesn't really feel like a female lead I could enjoy. She's the cliche damsel in distress no two ways about it. I don't entirely hate damsels in distress but most of the situations where she needs saving was put into motion by her own actions.

I know that she is sincere with wanting to help in majority of the situations, but she's just so damn bratty and childish more often than not. I really find it hard not to believe that her opposition against Galbadia's rule was just a way to go against her father for their own stunted relationship.

I think I could have enjoyed her more if she didn't come off as whiny, bratty, and especially nagging.

I know people say she's letting her feelings out as a way to get through to Squall, but honestly I just sympathize with Squall with having to put up with her untimely bitchin'.

Not to mention I loathe the idea of Squall and Rinoa paired together. It's canon, but I still hate it so DAMN much. The progression as a pairing annoyed me since although Squall/Rinoa was the main focus of FFVIII, I just didn't enjoy how it happened over-all.

Someone else said it on this site and it stuck with me since I thought it made a lot of sense, but Rinoa's character was really defined by her role in the story as the eventual love interest of the hero. They just tried to make her more important by making her a sorceress, and if it wasn't for that part, I find it really hard for her to have as much face time in the game as she did

This, to the power of infinity. I want to particularly highlight the last paragraph though: Rinoa isn't a character, she is a plot hook. Molded and shaped up for the benefit of Squall's development. Which brings up another post I found:

"I've always felt JRPGs tend to depict female leads in context with their male counterparts. That is to say, female leads in many JRPG games fail as standalone characters and need the male lead to fully complete their personalities... and define them as women. I absolutely resent that."

I'll just save myself the effort and serve a copypasta from another similar thread in another forum, of my thoughts on Rinoa:

'Try this: a spoiled, forceful idiot with no respect who thinks the world turns around in her palm, and just can't stay in her goddamned place when told to. Said forceful little brat always has to have it her way; she's like the spoiled rich kid who throws a tantrum when being rid of attention despite good reason and is the first to bawl for help the minute shit goes wrong, despite the shit serving her right. And, I say this is as fact, she is an idiot. Aside from captivating Squall's loner heart with her cheap awesome powerzzzz (which I am persuaded it was strictly by witchy manipuation, there is no other reason for Squall's 180 spin, if just really shitty writing) and being a later plot device (Sorceress lol), she doesn't bring much else to the game as a character. I think she's a tool, in every sense of the word.

Anyway in all honesty that wasn't even my main problem with her. She would've been less hateable if she just wasn't this Godly encompassing being who dwarfed anyone that wasn't named Squall. Her (shitty) one-note character gets so much emphasis it's sick and disgusting, they force so much Rinoa in your face that as an end result, depending on whether you didn't particularly like her, she looked much worse than she should've. She, along with her romantic interest, take priority over pretty much everything in the game and sacrifice other characters from being fleshed out and having any real significance - it's like they dedicated the entire game to evolve this one character (Squall) and absolutely forget about everything else as if that's perfectly cool and ok to do.

Oh and no one likes damsels in distress. No one. Rinoa is just that.

But despite all the attention thrown her way this tart gets no character development whatsoever. As already mentioned she's pretty much just a tool used to build Squall's character and nothing more. The only thing I ever really liked about Rinoa (well more like concurred with but whatever) was when she mentioned Squall was the best looking guy at the ball. yeah. I could easily agree on that.'

That said, I should also mention that while I find Rinoa incredibly annoying, I don't particularly hate her (that spot is reserved for Tifa!). I used to hate her with a burning passion but now it's just i dunno, half there.

 

[Ziggles]

Reserved for Tifa! lol
But you do have a great point. I agree 99.9%

 

[Vladislak]

Hmmm... Well my biggest problem was that she seemed like an empty shell. She seemed to exist for the sole purpose of giving Squall a love interest. Sure she had the sorcerer thing but that seems to have just existed to fuel Squall's determination.

It's not like the others. Yuna very clearly was a strong willed person with a mind of her own, she could easily stand on her own.
Garnet had to find purpose outside of being a princess, she had to deal with choosing between doing what her heart told her and what she felt she was obliged to do.
Tifa and Aerith were also both very independent of Cloud.
There really was no lead male or female in VI, and there wasn't a whole lot of personality from characters in games that came before it.

That being said, what was Rinoa? She was just... There. She never truly developed, and her relationship with Squall was the only really defining quality she had. So it seemed like she was just a placeholder, that she was "the love interest" and nothing else.


Perhaps if they had built upon her character more and developed it as the story progressed... But they didn't. >_>

 

[Bambi]

Reserved for Tifa! lol
But you do have a great point. I agree 99.9%

Posts simply saying ''I agree'' are generally discouraged, please try to add your own thoughts to the topic, thank you ^^

 

[The Illusive Man]

Well for me on the whole I felt the buck didnt just stop with Rinoa being an overly rushed character, there was a lot of rushed work with the character personalities on FF8 with most of them either having very bland personalities, to them having transplanted personalities from previous FF characters.

Rinoa was just the embodiment of what happens when the writers are being lazy, she could have actually been a pretty great character, unfortunatley she turned out to be extremely Cliche and annoying.

 

[Pikazoid]

...I fully agree with you.

When I first saw Rinoa's face, I thought she would be an acceptable character.
But not until I actually played FF8 and she was a very disappointing character.

I personally thought Rinoa is really annoying because she constantly gets into huge trouble and causes stress for all the other characters in FF8. And she's like a robot with only one aim on her mind, Squall.

 

[Flagg]

I really liked Rinoa.

What I dislike about a lot of female leads in games, films or any sort of fiction is how they all have to be total bad asses or bitches who are capable of destroying multiple enemies or opponants much bigger than themselves. It's so generic, repetitive and boring.

She was clumsy, awkward and a bit naive but completely optimistic. That made her very real and believable to me.

 

[simon ross]

when i first started playing the game i liked Rinoa. but when i played the game a second time i got annoyed with her.

i have now played the game a few times now and just restarted a new game and i hate her with a passion.

good things i liked about her.
1) She wears blue.
2) Angelo. i love animals so yeah.
3) She is fighting for what she believes in.
4) Self trained. well it seems that way

bad things about the blue cow.
1) how she stands
2) her weapon
3) the stress she puts on the others
4) the coma
5) she is so annoying
6) the big one for me is why the hell is she wearing leg warmers on her arms.

 

[Mikko]

I liked Rinoa for about... 5 mins of the game.

I really dislike her. What is she? She never really fits in. She's always awkwardly left out. She's annoying, whiny, moaning all the time, a flirt... She just annoyed me to no end.

 

[stinger]

I've gone through stages of both liking and disliking her.

In the end it seems like she really is just there to create problems for the group during the story, she rarely contributes anything. Having said that I think she was a neccesary character to bring out a different side in Squall. The two really do contrast each other in a way, he is the lone-wolf style fighter and she is the needy damsal in distress, I'm not sure what else they could have done that would have lent itself to Squall developing the way he did.