Sephiroth

Chocobowill

Chocobowill

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Ok i may get bashed here but Sephiroth is the necessary evil. Once the "good" reigns so far, the good becomes the bad. There is always some-one ending up with the shorter stick. Therefore is it not agreeable that to live in harmony we have to have a balanced life? And in FFVII Sephiroth is that balance to put good into its place. He makes sure that it doesn't go so far that greed, and corruption consumes them. However it already has, and his view was that he wanted to create a new land. What do you guys think? Is it really bad or is it necessary?

`Think as sephiroth as the Yin to the worlds yang. He is darkness, but with a White soul/heart.
 
Yeah. He is the Yang to Clouds Ying. He is his eternal destined enemy. They in a way, complete each other. Their many battles have proven the age old battle of good vs evil. I see what you are saying and agree completely.
 
dude, i totally agree. And Sephiroth was a big time hero before he went all psycho. He was a great person
other than him taking bad orders from shinra
who took orders as he was told and as shown in Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core, he was a good guy that origonally defended people. This was only up the point of insanity. His turn to evil does show us his true balance and insanity, so that means that in all evil there is a balancing of good. And it is both balanced by Sephiroth and Cloud, but also, Sephiroths future/present and past.
 
I don't think Sephiroth is insane. He plans and manipulates. The most you could expect an insane person to do would be to seize power. Sephiroth already had power from the Jenova experiment or learned it from the life stream. He can't be yin since he is not capable of redemption. There is no light inside of him. Only a burning hatred. Yes he started off good but his corruption was absolute. You can't redeem someone who has to remorse or regret.
 
i think that in the beginning, he was a good person, just like squee said. but i dont think that after he went crazy, he had an once of good in him. if he was good, then why did he burn the village down with no remorse what-so-ever?
 
Well after discovering his past, and being torn fro the inside out, he wouldn't have no remorse....for anyone. He basically had a huge epiphany and discovered that the rest of the world was corrupt and it was suffering. Therefore he wanted change. And doing evil was a necessary act to "purify" the world. Its just necessary evil. He thought of the bigger picture. And think about it, death is inevitable anyway. Life is Suffering....
 
I think he's so powerful he decides if he wants to be good or evil, not fate or anything else. I think he also is confused on how he thinks he was
born from Jenova and is her true son and etc when really he isn't(correct me if i'm wrong)
.

FFVersusXIII, the reason he did that is because he thinks all human life are traitors and they should be punished, it's not that he's insane, it's that he is confused, thinking that Jenova was his mother and that she was good (correct me if i'm wrong)
 
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Shadow_Hunter said:
I think he's so powerful he decides if he wants to be good or evil, not fate or anything else. I think he also is confused on how he thinks he was
born from Jenova and is her true son and etc when really he isn't(correct me if i'm wrong)
.

FFVersusXIII, the reason he did that is because he thinks all human life are traitors and they should be punished, it's not that he's insane, it's that he is confused, thinking that Jenova was his mother and that she was good (correct me if i'm wrong)
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Yeah you are somewhat correct. I read somewhere that Hojo was his father and i forget the mothers name. and while Sephiroth was still in the whom, Hojo injected him with Pure JENOVA cells. When he was born he was a more purer form then the failed experiments i.e GENISIS, and ANGEAL, later ill try to find the site with that information and post it.

Here is the link with the info, its basically the entire story to FFVII

Chocobowill said:
Here is the link with the info, its basically the entire story to FFVII
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oops sorry, here it is.

http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/ff7story.shtml
 
Please don't double/triple post. If you need to add any information use the "edit" button on the original post. Thank you.
 
You're absolutely correct, Chocobowill. In fact, this isn't a very new premise at all. You could say it's older than dirt, in fact. You could say it first appeared in the Bible, of a sort. Actually, there's a lot of religious symbolism in FF7 if you know where to look. Sephiroth's name is actually made off of the name 'Seraphim' which is the highest rank among angels.

For more examples of where this is used, see this page.

Like I said, the concept of a balance is a fairly common one, though it isn't as pronounced in some cases as it is in others. The Dragonlance series is famous for this concept -- they pretty much say outright 'there's too much of a good thing' -- literally.
 
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I don't know if you would call it necessary evil. The world was already being taken over(in the process of it) by an evil company named Shin-ra. So I don't think it was a necessary evil. I also don't think Sephiroth went insane at any point. He just changed his point of view and objective.

Sephiroth went around causing all sorts of destruction and mayhem and slaughtering people after he changed. I don't think that can ever be called justified when you are talking about killing innocent people on a mission to destroy the world.

There was plenty of evil in the world of FFVII. The amount of destruction the Sephiroth was causing and planned to cause wasn't necessary for balance, and for one find it hard to believe that balance by killing innocent people for the balance of good and evil could ever be necessary.

So no. I think calling his evil deeds necessary is ridiculous in that sense.

If you mean necessary to making a great video game then yes!
 
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Dragon Mage said:
You're absolutely correct, Chocobowill. In fact, this isn't a very new premise at all. You could say it's older than dirt, in fact. You could say it first appeared in the Bible, of a sort. Actually, there's a lot of religious symbolism in FF7 if you know where to look. Sephiroth's name is actually made off of the name 'Seraphim' which is the highest rank among angels.

For more examples of where this is used, see this page.

Like I said, the concept of a balance is a fairly common one, though it isn't as pronounced in some cases as it is in others. The Dragonlance series is famous for this concept -- they pretty much say outright 'there's too much of a good thing' -- literally.
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Yeah thank you. And thanks for the link. This is exactly the stuff im talking about, there just has to be balance. So sephiroth is still deemed "evil" but is it not a factor of life? or a necessity?
 
Apparent Amarant said:
I don't know if you would call it necessary evil. The world was already being taken over(in the process of it) by an evil company named Shin-ra. So I don't think it was a necessary evil. I also don't think Sephiroth went insane at any point. He just changed his point of view and objective.

Sephiroth went around causing all sorts of destruction and mayhem and slaughtering people after he changed. I don't think that can ever be called justified when you are talking about killing innocent people on a mission to destroy the world.

There was plenty of evil in the world of FFVII. The amount of destruction the Sephiroth was causing and planned to cause wasn't necessary for balance, and for one find it hard to believe that balance by killing innocent people for the balance of good and evil could ever be necessary.

So no. I think calling his evil deeds necessary is ridiculous in that sense.

If you mean necessary to making a great video game then yes!
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Yeah, that's the thin, the innocent people, are sitting in the middle of it all, getting hit with everything. In this story's fantasy sense, sephiroth wanted create a bright new future, not only on that planet, but around the cosmos. Basically sacrifice has to be made, one planets suffering cannot measure up to all of suffering of the rest of the universe. Kinda like how our suffering cannot make up for the rest of millions on earth. But i agree its cruel, and that's what cloud fought for. But i like to think of it as looking at the bigger picture. If only there was another way...
 
Chocobowill said:
Yeah, that's the thin, the innocent people, are sitting in the middle of it all, getting hit with everything. In this story's fantasy sense, sephiroth wanted create a bright new future, not only on that planet, but around the cosmos. Basically sacrifice has to be made, one planets suffering cannot measure up to all of suffering of the rest of the universe. Kinda like how our suffering cannot make up for the rest of millions on earth. But i agree its cruel, and that's what cloud fought for. But i like to think of it as looking at the bigger picture. If only there was another way...
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I don't really understand what you are saying. Sephiroth's goal was not to create any form of peace. It was to become a god-like being by using meter damage the planet. When the planet released some of the life energy running through it to heal itself his plan was to absorb it all. He was planning on killing everyone to add to that energy. If he absorbed the life-stream the planet would have become a lifeless ball of dirt. His ability to absorb it came from the planet's lifestream being tainted by Jenova who had died and been absorbed into it. Her cells tainting it enable Sephiroth to absorb it.

Cloud and co. defeated Sephiroth though and the lifestream was able to divert meteor.

There was no nobility in his goal whatsoever. He wasn't looking to improve on the planet or the cosmos just become a God like being. There was absolutely nothing necessary about any of his actions in the FFVII. His motives were strictly selfish.

Also the idea of necessary evil is is also a warped one. There really aren't any necessary evils I can think of. War for instance is most commonly called a necessary evil however the side that's fighting out of necessity is almost always forced to fight. That really can't ever be evil. Defense isn't evil.
 
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Apparent Amarant said:
I don't really understand what you are saying. Sephiroth's goal was not to create any form of peace. It was to become a god-like being by using meter damage the planet. When the planet released some of the life energy running through it to heal itself his plan was to absorb it all. He was planning on killing everyone to add to that energy. If he absorbed the life-stream the planet would have become a lifeless ball of dirt. His ability to absorb it came from the planet's lifestream being tainted by Jenova who had died and been absorbed into it. Her cells tainting it enable Sephiroth to absorb it.

Cloud and co. defeated Sephiroth though and the lifestream was able to divert meteor.

There was no nobility in his goal whatsoever. He wasn't looking to improve on the planet or the cosmos just become a God like being. There was absolutely nothing necessary about any of his actions in the FFVII. His motives were strictly selfish.

Also the idea of necessary evil is is also a warped one. There really aren't any necessary evils I can think of. War for instance is most commonly called a necessary evil however the side that's fighting out of necessity is almost always forced to fight. That really can't ever be evil. Defense isn't evil.
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He wanted to use their planet as a vessel to ride in the cosmos, just as jenova did. Subsequently, his mission would begin there. It stated that at the end of AC.
 
Chocobowill said:
He wanted to use their planet as a vessel to ride in the cosmos, just as jenova did. Subsequently, his mission would begin there. It stated that at the end of AC.
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The last thoughts of Geostigma's death... those remnants will join the lifestream and girdle the planet; choking it; corroding it. What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as my vessel. Just as Mother did long ago. then one day we'll find a new planet and on it's soil we'll create a shining future. Is this the quote you are referring to?

I think it's more likely the "new future" he was trying to create was one that he ruled with absolute power. Not one without suffering and all life-forms were full of joy and everything was peaceful. Jenova didn't really surf the cosmos. She roamed them looking for planets that she could devour the energy from. The ancients on earth stopped her though. She had no righteous cause behind her and I don't think Sephiroth did either. I really don't think that the Sephiroth line I quoted is one is where is is referring to creating new life that will live in peace and harmony. I think he means a shining new future for himself, because that makes more sense along with his previous mission to get become as close to a God as possible.

Either way the balance of good and evil isn't something humans are supposed to strive for. It's a by-product of trying to spread good, and the fact it's impossible to eradicate evil from the world.
 
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Apparent Amarant said:
The last thoughts of Geostigma's death... those remnants will join the lifestream and girdle the planet; choking it; corroding it. What I want, Cloud, is to sail the cosmos with this planet as my vessel. Just as Mother did long ago. then one day we'll find a new planet and on it's soil we'll create a shining future. Is this the quote you are referring to?

I think it's more likely the "new future" he was trying to create was one that he ruled with absolute power. Not one without suffering and all life-forms were full of joy and everything was peaceful. Jenova didn't really surf the cosmos. She roamed them looking for planets that she could devour the energy from. The ancients on earth stopped her though. She had no righteous cause behind her and I don't think Sephiroth did either. I really don't think that the Sephiroth line I quoted is one is where is is referring to creating new life that will live in peace and harmony. I think he means a shining new future for himself, because that makes more sense along with his previous mission to get become as close to a God as possible.

Either way the balance of good and evil isn't something humans are supposed to strive for. It's a by-product of trying to spread good, and the fact it's impossible to eradicate evil from the world.
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Yeah i see what your saying. But Jenova was actively trying to destroy planets. But sephiroth wanted to create something better. And yes that is the quote i was referring to. But something we both dont know is what he really wanted to do. I mean he bore witness to the evil of humanity, and realized he was engineered through a biological matter. In my opinion, thats where he got his anger and he wanted to...purify everything. But on the other hand, he could have wanted to go planet to planet to destroy them. But i wanna think that he wants to make everything better....idk though. Either way there is death, and birth.
 
Also, however, to Sephiroth, he was not doing evil. He felt he was purifying the world and making himself the new god. He was not being evil, he just had the ability to gain power, and saw the corruption everywhere, and decided he would be a better god. So he tried to make it so. He thought he was being a saint. it was from everyone else's point of view.
 
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