Seymour

looneymoon said:
I genuinely believe that if he were eliminated it would likewise eliminate alot of the exposition of Yuna's character (who IS detrimental to the story). That's what character foils are for - think Cloud to Zack, Seifer to Squall, Brahne to Garnet etc.
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For me, Seymour seemed to be the opposite of Yuna, like a ying vs yang type thing.

Yuna - half Al Bhed = Non exceptance.
Seymour - Half Guado = Non exceptance.
Yuna - Daughter of a High Summoner.
Seymour - Son of a Maester.
Yuna - Trying to ease Spira's suffering by defeating Sin. (bringing the calm)
Seymour - Aiming to ease Spira's suffering by becomming Sin. (ending life)

You could probably find more opposites/similarities.

So for Yuna to show the good, Seymour is showing the bad. Thus bringing forward Yuna's character more and making her look stronger.
 
looneymoon said:
But then, you could also argue that FF7 could have been told with only half the main party. All you really need to make the plot is Cloud, Barett, Aeris, Sephiroth, Jenova, Shinra and Hojo. None of the other characters affect the main plot, so why have them? In fiction, the majority of secondary characters don't have a significant impact on the overall plot, but their presence heightens the conflict and often give futher insight to overall themes.
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Not to cut your incredibly long post down to brass tax, but I disagree with this statement. Therefore, the rest of your argument is meaningless to me. lol You can't argue that none of the main cast does not progress the plot and are insignificant. Whereas other characters are purely there for aesthetic appeal, main characters are not. They do serve to progress and develop the plot. As much as I love the Turks, their removal from the plot would not hinder Sephiroth, JENOVA, Cloud, or any lifestream plot. There're superficial, although incredibly badass.

To take this conversation back to Seymour, while his story developed in similar circumstances to the main plot... he could have been removed and it never would have impacted Tidus, his motivations, Jecht, Yu Yevon's plot, or any of the main characters. The only tie he had to the leading characters, good or bad, was through Yuna... and that was only to have a wedding and serve as a distraction. Sure you can argue that he was unique and crazy... but so was the "I are sick" guy in FFVII. That doesn't make him crucial to the plot.

EDIT: DLFlux, that was her point. That's what the word exposition means... but thanks for bringing it up because it's nearly fucking impossible for me to argue against. Meanie...
 
Seymour is definately one of my favourite villains. I love his story and he's a pretty unique looking character. He was fun to use, even if it was just once and his overdrive is badass. While he was very annoying with his battles, he was very memorable for me and had some cool quotes.
 
Not to cut your incredibly long post down to brass tax, but I disagree with this statement. Therefore, the rest of your argument is meaningless to me. lol You can't argue that none of the main cast does not progress the plot and are insignificant. Whereas other characters are purely there for aesthetic appeal, main characters are not. They do serve to progress and develop the plot. As much as I love the Turks, their removal from the plot would not hinder Sephiroth, JENOVA, Cloud, or any lifestream plot. There're superficial, although incredibly badass.
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Fair enough. TURKS are a good example of characters that don't do much to the plot, and their presence is probably only a superficial one (I'm not sure what the creator's may have had in mind with them but... eh). I wouldn't remove them either - they add flavour.

To take this conversation back to Seymour, while his story developed in similar circumstances to the main plot... he could have been removed and it never would have impacted Tidus, his motivations, Jecht, Yu Yevon's plot, or any of the main characters. The only tie he had to the leading characters, good or bad, was through Yuna... and that was only to have a wedding and serve as a distraction. Sure you can argue that he was unique and crazy... but so was the "I are sick" guy in FFVII. That doesn't make him crucial to the plot.
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He did have impact on the main plot because he had impact on Yuna, who is crucial to the plot. The difference being with FFX is that we don't see the story unfold from the "hero's" POV, so the impact of the character foil isn't quite as explicit (which doesn't make him useless, as I said before character foils give added depth - in this case, Seymour is a foil to Yuna).

FFX is told in first person minor objective. I think sometimes people fail to realize is that Yuna almost equally shares the main character spot with Tidus. Yes, in FFX we see everything unfold with Tidus' personal story, but it gets intwined into Yuna's much bigger "save the world" story. It makes the narrative different from previous FFs because while Tidus is the protagonist, he doesn't play the role if the figurehead hero.

Think of it this way: had FF4 been told from another character's point of view, suddenly Kain's role as Cecil's foil would seem less significant. This seems to be the case with FFX. Here's a story where we have this messiah figure, but we don't actually witness the story firsthand from her. Here we have a problem - because of the narrative style, there would be a bit of problem in developing her personality without giving the plot away. That's where we have Seymour who adds as a character foil. He serves his purpose because he helps characterize Yuna (refer to DLFLux post for specifics). Therefore, you can't say he plays the role of an aesthetic distraction (ie. TURKS FF7) because he does have a role, it just doesn't direct directly to the plot. Removing Seymour would compromise part of Yuna's story.
 
I think his main involvement in the plot was more of an interruption than anything. Sure you could have taken Seymour away from the plot, but it's true the plot would have been a bit more boring with Seymour out of the way. He got in the way of the main characters focusing on defeating Sin because he wanted to chime in and steal the thunder/be the hero/be in the spotlight.

Without Seymour, the main party's pilgrimage would have been too easy. Wow, just what i want to do. Face Belgemine a few times, a Hyena here and there, and then punch a goose in the face and the games over. Seymour came at the party from all angles. He tried to be the superior Maester who lent his hand out to help the summoner Yuna and Co. He tried to become more intimately involved in their efforts and take the lead role by marrying Yuna and forming the love bond. Then when all else failed for Seymour, he took the forceful way by attempting to fight his way through Yuna's crew and selfishly be the center of attention.

If you take out Seymour from the story, you miss a huge void with the re-curring boss. Sure you may not like him, have your own negative opinions about him because he doesn't stand up in your mind to the epitome of your favorite villain, but he's FFX's villain. You hate Seymour. You hate his laugh, his voice, his intentions, his actions, and his fake tattoos. Without him, you've got no really villain that hates your party. YUnalesca tries to get you to go about completing the Final Summon the traditional way and only fights because she thinks the party is commiting blashphemy against Yevon. Sin has no meotional hatred towards your party, he's just in it to destroy all and all because of the heavy machina use.

Anyone can argue that Seymour has his flaws, as does any character or villain in an FF game, but it's all opinion. Saying Seymour's or anyone else is useless is just words out of your mouth or words from your fingers in our case. He's the presence of evil in FFX, and those who doubt that are most likely just stuck on their fan-boyism from another game's villain.
 
I actually quite liked Seymour. <3 I liked his style, and his persistance. It did rather startle me with the marriage perposal, but... I did like how Yuna escaped. <3
 
To Busta and looneymoon's point both, I'm not really arguing that he didn't make the game more interesting. He did. But there are two separate plots - one dealing with "oh noes, I am summoner cat. I am in ur Spira, killing teh Sin", while the other is about Yu Yevon and the secrets of Spira in general. Seymour is only involved in the former plot, not the second. So when I say you can remove him, I mean from the second plot. The first plot is only to establish how the world of Spira is seen by the everyday citizen. In that one, he does play a role... but it's beneath the importance of the latter plot, so his removal would ultimately not affect the story's main plot to be told.
 
I think Seymour was a fun distraction to the story. I enjoyed how tough his battles were but his persistence got boring by the end. I understand his motives but they did not seem persuasive enough for how pushy he was. He wasn't at all important to the story in my opinion though :-\
 
I kinda liked Seymour. I dont know if it was his look or his voice. But using him in Operation Mi'ihen made me like him more.
 
Remember at the Operation M'ihen were you had to fight alongside Seymour? I always kill him before I defeat the monster. Mainly because my characters are already strong enaugh. Also, if you let him help you, Seymour will level up and will probably be a harder boss in Macalania. To change this I kill him and let Auron and Yuna finish off the boss.
 
Lol! I didn't do that because my characters were strong enough or anything, just because I didn't want to let a villain help me.

As a result, i had to retry a couple of times before i could complete.
 
Okay, for seriously- Seymour was probably the worst side-villain to a game EVER for me, apart from "Dr." Cid in XII.

I mean, when he first got off that boat- I was like, hm, he could be cool. Then I noticed the antlers. ...
And his voice made me want to punch anything in reach. It sounded like Bob Dylan, if Bob Dylan was a woman with a very heavy chest cold.

Plus, he was just incredibly unthreatening, unintelligent, and not powerful. Just watching him do cheap moves like stabbing my entire party with a poison lance thing made me angry. ...Plus his hair always seemed to get bigger and bigger with each fight.

Not that your party did much about him. There were like, 20 DIFFERENT TIMES that Yuna could've sent him, but they wasted time talking to him first. Then after 5 minutes, Tidus was like- "Yuna, now!" And she was like, huh? wha? Oh, yeah, ok... And then off Seymour would go.

Gah...so irritating.
 
I personally don't think that Seymour's character does the Guado justice. But anyway, his voice made me wanna bash my controller into the TV. It would have been better if it was more cynical. I thought he was very unique looking, a very colorful villain. :) I can't say I pity him much because although his background was unpleasant, his twisted mind surpassed that. But what good villain isn't twisted?

However, his battles are another story. I enjoyed them, although some may have taken longer than others, there was always a new twist to every one. (Not only because I'm an elemental freak.) I liked them because they involved more than just pummeling him with a bunch of spells and overdrives. You had to think in order to figure out his patterns. Anima was also awesome. But he gets boring, and his persistence is very aggravating. If I could describe him in one word, it would be determined.
 
the one where he kept inflicting the zombie status then healing you was really annoying and it was like his 7th form. I was like enough already I beat you twice before STAY DOWN!
 
grr his stupid voice and his stupid hair and what the fuck is on his face does he have like veins stickin out or sumshit o_O i didnt find him that hard well the 1st time he was but the 2nd time verry easyy cause i knew what to do but it was so fucking random he just full on asks yuna will u marry me and he has only met yuna like once or twice o_O
 
I hated him. The first couple of fights against him were easy, but the last ones were harder than hell because he kept pwning my guys like nothing.

Finally, I decided, screw this, I'm gonna level up some more before I try this shit again.
 
i got soooo irritated by seymour in the game.... first time i had real issues with him was at gagazet mountain... oooh so hard... i just retried over and over and in the end i just paid yojimbo enough for zanmato... but he was realy overpowered.

But at mi-ihen(or something like that) i realy needed his help because i would die if he didnt :P
 
Seymour was the worst FF villain i ever thought his voice annoyed me his motive annoyed me and his clothes is just..i couldn't help but laugh when i first saw him he reminded me of a horrible love child of Kuja and Sephiroth.
 
Hey what was up with Seymour Omnis he was so easy I beat him first try. Is it just me or was Omnis the easiest seymour battle? As for Seymour I did not like him one bit. Seeing as he just married Yuna I wanted to do something to him. But Yuna planned it all right and she got on top of valefore. She was tricking seymour by suicide but it was all a plan.
 
I loved Seymour. He was dark and twisted without being completely over the top (like Sephiroth for example). I loved the way he came across as being calm and in control yet completely insane at the same time.

I think he's really underrated as far as villains go. Don't forget he managed to fool most of the world into believing he was a good guy, plus he was one of the few storyline bosses to actually provide a challenge (with the exception of his final battle, which was suprisingly easy).
 
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