Something I find typically annoying with atheists.

[Squid]

God or no god, I find the presumption that the universe came out of nowhere ridiculous.

Firstly no one said the universe came out of no where...scientists are actually trying to figure out how the universe came to be and they've even found evidence that there was more before the big bang.

And the sad part is that I, myself, am only agnostic. But you know what keeps me from being an atheist? The fact that, with our current knowledge of the universe, a supreme deity is actually a plausible explanation. Can anyone prove it wrong? If you can, there's a Nobel Prize waiting for you.

but can you prove it true that there is a deity?? on either side no one can actually prove anything so i don't really get what you're trying to say.

Yeah, I'll just go ahead and believe something that has also yet to be proven. Forget this huge monument, I'm going to trust this tiny little brick on the side instead.

I think its funny that you're picking on Atheists but you've got pretty extreme opinions for an Agnostic... Religious people believe in god because the bible...a random book made a few thousand years ago tells them too... Atheists believe in science because they are actively coming up with new theories everyday.

If nobody could look up at the sky, does that mean the sky isn't blue?

sorry... I had to lol

Atheists believe that the universe just happened, but physics say that it came from something. So what is atheism really?
It's contradiction sprung from contradiction. Technically, it's better to have blind faith than to believe something that isn't stated in any book at all.

What do you mean it has to be stated in a book for us to believe it?? are you sure you're not religious?? and once again Atheists do not believe the universe came from nothing, We believe it came from something, everything comes from something... we just don't believe it came from an all knowing, angsty man in the sky....

and while we're at it... where did god come from?? why is it ok for you to diss what we believe in but its ok for god to one day just pop up and that doesn't get argued against?? I freaking hate that, its such double standards.

When you tell me where god came from I'll tell you where the universe came from.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

A straw man argument at it's finest..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sgruj
If nobody could look up at the sky, does that mean the sky isn't blue?

sorry... I had to lol

I'm sorry you think that's funny, because that's exactly how atheists think. And theists can be just as bad, to be honest., I'm not justifying either side. Agnostics are the only real thinkers.

Originally Posted by Sum1sgruj
Yeah, I'll just go ahead and believe something that has also yet to be proven. Forget this huge monument, I'm going to trust this tiny little brick on the side instead.
I think its funny that you're picking on Atheists but you've got pretty extreme opinions for an Agnostic... Religious people believe in god because the bible...a random book made a few thousand years ago tells them too... Atheists believe in science because they are actively coming up with new theories everyday.

Theories are exactly that.. theories. And they mean precisely,, nothing. In fact, theoretical science only comes to play when everything else is a dead-end. There are anomalies in every theory. Otherwise, it would be a law. String theory and super-symmetry= theory. Hell, even general relativity is theory, and we find uses for it. That's how much we don't know.
That's like a caveman rolling an object on square wheels. We don't know.

Originally Posted by Sum1sgruj
Atheists believe that the universe just happened, but physics say that it came from something. So what is atheism really?
It's contradiction sprung from contradiction. Technically, it's better to have blind faith than to believe something that isn't stated in any book at all.
What do you mean it has to be stated in a book for us to believe it?? are you sure you're not religious?? and once again Atheists do not believe the universe came from nothing, We believe it came from something, everything comes from something... we just don't believe it came from an all knowing, angsty man in the sky....

and while we're at it... where did god come from?? why is it ok for you to diss what we believe in but its ok for god to one day just pop up and that doesn't get argued against?? I freaking hate that, its such double standards.

When you tell me where god came from I'll tell you where the universe came from.

How do atheists believe we came from 'something'? Before the big bang.. what was there? Multidimensional cross-sections of strings and branes which sprung the big-bang? Where did they come from? Do you even know what that is? I'd say no, because atheists choose not to believe in anything else that may be an inconvenient truth.
I don't have double-standards about anything. I just wished that atheists would stop denying the slightest possibility that there may be divine workings within our existence. That doesn't mean to be religious, it means to explore new depths that atheists clearly lack the ability to do.

 

[Squid]

Once again you tell me how God was created and I'll tell you how the Universe was created.
You can't make that argument about one side and not the other... that is double standards

 

[Sum1sgruj]

Once again you tell me how God was created and I'll tell you how the Universe was created.
You can't make that argument about one side and not the other... that is double standards

And once again, straw man argument. I advocated neither side.
You have yet to say anything that really justifies atheism except trying to shoot down theism. The only double-standard is your argument.

This kind of proves my point exactly, actually.

 

[Squid]

Actually all you've said is how Atheists suck and how Agnostics are the best. you sound like a religious person calling themselves 'agnostic'

 

[Sum1sgruj]

Actually all you've said is how Atheists suck and how Agnostics are the best. you sound like a religious person calling themselves 'agnostic'

That's because I know the definitions of 'possibility' and 'impossibility', unlike atheists.

 

[coffeecup]

Well, I think there are degrees of atheism (or maybe agnosticism if you want to flip it around). Instead of looking at the issue of whether you either (a) believe in some divine entity, or (b) you don't; it's more realistic to look at the issue on a spectrum of belief.

For example, many atheists I know could be characterized as agnostics that just put down a presumption of "no god." It's difficult to just go through life and make decisions without establishing some kind of firm base. Many use the unbiased methodology of science, and scientific procedure generally requires you to prove the "existence of" (rather than going in the opposite direction of disproof of...since it's not really possible to do so with 100% certainty). Naturally you can't prove the negative of anything, so in reality anything can exist. God, two Gods, unicorns in space, an alternate dimension where FFXIII is awesome, etc... but the general idea is that if something exists, it should be able to be found. So in short, many atheists I know are actually agnostics that are something like 99.999% belief that God doesn't exist and .001% that God could exist.

They just like to call themselves atheists because it's a more accurate classification (in their minds) since they are w/ a heavier biased against the existence of God than for it. So don't get hooked on the semantics, because I doubt (from personal experience) that a lot of the atheists out there are going around saying 0% existence of God. It's more like 0.0001%. Put them in the narrow categories if you want, but most of the times the actual classification isn't as important rather than the underlying justification of the belief. So like I said, most atheists I know aren't saying that there isn't a possibility that God exists, it's just a very heavy biased against it.

 

[Squid]

thats right, coffeecup, you said that really well

if someone could show me some kind of proof of god like actual proof I would have no issues believing... although I wouldn't like him much as a person... sorry religious people but god is a dick...

for now, I have no proof, I enjoy the scientific finds of evolution and the big bang theory and what came before and for now that is what I believe in.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

They just like to call themselves atheists because it's a more accurate classification (in their minds) since they are w/ a heavier biased against the existence of God than for it. So don't get hooked on the semantics, because I doubt (from personal experience) that a lot of the atheists out there are going around saying 0% existence of God. It's more like 0.0001%.

The likeliness of God existing is no less than the universe coming from nothing. It's laughable, it really is, to see all these proclaimed atheists try to prove a point through unproven idealism and theory.
The point is this: How can you 'lean' towards something that is as unlikely as what you are leaning against? The 'proof' or 'likeliness' that you think you have amounts to nothing.
Atheists are just afraid of the little gray area between the black and white, where someone like me unravels the reality that pure atheism is like putting a ball-and-chain around your brain.

You think you know by experience, but I study religion, physics, and philosophy religiously, and if there's one thing I've come to notice, it's that there is a stalemate between theism and science.
Science has come to no conclusion how the universe began, if there's a creator, or even any kind of probability that what little they've discovered even fits in with any kind of grand unification.
You know why I like atheists less than theists? Because they think that they can have the benefits of denial without consequence, whereas a theist believes they will face a consequence if they succumb to denial. In other words, atheists just like to cause a shit-storm simply because they are bored.
And then people like me, who have some insight, fall through the cracks and everyone eats up this big, scientific lie.

 

[Squid]

argh you're really annoying, seriously. First you complain about Atheists being too forward with their 'beliefs' but you shoving yours onto people is absolutely fine?? how about you let us have our beliefs and you continue to 'sit on the fence' although you're seriously sounding like a religious nut, bashing everything except religion and what you believe in!!

I hate people who think they're all that, which you do "people like me who have insite" what the hell? Because you study religion it gives you insite? it gives you insite to one side. Wow Humble...modest much??

Why don't you ask your point of: " How can you 'lean' towards something that is as unlikely as what you are leaning against?" to a religious person of any religion?? how come you aren't arguing that they can lean to god when apparently Atheism's beliefs and religion according to you are no different?

Stop trying to tell Atheists that our belif in science sucks but yours are absolutely fine because you're some all knowing turd who sits on the fence and pretends to debate about how both sides are equal while being absolutely bias towards religion.

I usually keep to myself about what I believe until some idiot comes along and tries to tell me my ways are wrong... well you know what?? your ways are wrong too. There might not be a god and science might not be right, there might be something completely different out there but I CHOOSE to believe in science... so STFU

btw, I had religion SHOVED down my throat as a child, yes, I was read the bible before bed every weekend, I had to go to the Kingdom Hall with my Grandma and I had to go witnessing to people's front doors and try to sell them books about shit they didn't want so I know for a fact that religious people force feed people their shit just as much, if not more than Atheists!

If you want to believe in both sides because you're indecisive then thats ok with me, just don't get all preachy on other people and act as though we are wrong and you are right.

 

[blakstang98]

Remember folks, it's a debate. There is no "I'm right and you're wrong". We share points with each other in a civil manner. Let's relax and enjoy our time debating. If we can't, then it would be best to step aside. Thank you, carry on.

Gmod edit: You ninja.

 

[coffeecup]

The likeliness of God existing is no less than the universe coming from nothing. It's laughable, it really is, to see all these proclaimed atheists try to prove a point through unproven idealism and theory.

Yes...but the difference between a quasi-speculative theory like the Big Bang and some Creator is the existence of some scientific evidence and theoretical support. I don't believe anybody who knows their science is saying that the Big Bang is 100% certain because it's essentially science stretched at its limits in cosmology. It's a very speculitive field at best, but scientists are doing what they can to figure out the big question of "why we are here." I mean the colliding universes theory or the theory Penrose came up a few weeks ago try to explain away some of the difficulties that are inherent in our current theory. Additionally, it's unknown what came before the Big Bang or whether or not our perception of it is the actual "truth," no science buff that I've met has ever even supported a view of the Big Bang that you say atheists adhere to.

I think your problem isn't really with atheists, but with people who don't understand the Big Bang theory or science in general.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

I think your problem isn't really with atheists, but with people who don't understand the Big Bang theory or science in general.

Yeah, you're probably right with the science bit. And it's not necessarily ALL atheists, it's the notion that most of them choose to lean on science without the full speculation of it. Just like how theists are well educated in every corner of their religion, atheists should be just as well educated on their side. I just figure that if both sides are far from being proven, why pick one? You don't need to be truly atheist to study the universe.

 

[Jquestionmark]

I think that expecting people to only know their side is letting them slide a bit. If you're going to deny religion and support science, you should know enough about religion to have a well founded argument for why you don't believe, and enough about science to argue for it. The same goes the other way around.

Far too many atheists/agnostics claim to be so because it's trendy/cool/rebellious, and don't learn the facts and common debates before they get started. Far too many religious people don't know the common debates either, and just pander on about what their [religious official of choice] told them.

On the topic of belief, ignoring that we have to believe certain things just to function (for example, that anything exists outside of myself), I'm going to have to tip my hat to any system (religious or scientific) that adjusts itself to new evidence and information instead of trying to explain it away. Anything that says "this is the truth" and refuses to adjust raises suspicion from me.

 

[SangueLuna]

I am an Atheist but I never crammed anything down anyone's throats. I just am, what I am. I find religion fascinating but I don't believe in a God. The problem is Atheist at one point were not like this. They never attacked anyone unless provoked. I think more people who become Atheist, the more likely hood you are going to get idiots. Most people just hitch on the band wagon and forget the principles of being an Atheist. It is not a religion and most Atheist got to stop thinking it is. That is the problem. Atheist have gatherings and codes and what not these days that I just crack up. Your an Atheist, you just need to stop making it into a religion. It is just a terminology. Once something becomes cult like, it just turns into a huge mess.

I for one never jump a band wagon. I am what I am... I decided I did not believe in a God because I could not fathom the idea. Does not make me closed minded, it just makes me think differently then others. I don't think anyone is wrong or right. It is just your opinion.

 

[unadulteratedawesome]

Atheists are just afraid of the little gray area between the black and white, where someone like me unravels the reality that pure atheism is like putting a ball-and-chain around your brain.

Your view of how most atheists thinks is in no way representative of a proper scientific outlook. There is an attempt to define what we can, which is essentially anything we can perceive, and nothing beyond that. There is no "fear" of a gray area because that is exactly what is examined. If it can be proven, we attempt to do so. If we cannot do it at this time, then it is pushed aside for something more worthwhile.

You know why I like atheists less than theists? Because they think that they can have the benefits of denial without consequence, whereas a theist believes they will face a consequence if they succumb to denial. In other words, atheists just like to cause a shit-storm simply because they are bored.

Are you attempting to be pointlessly inflammatory with that last remark? And of course we can deny without consequence. What consequence are you speaking of? There is nothing terrible about being wrong when, at the time, the evidence supports a specific claim. If something is denied that is later proven true, then science corrects itself. That's all there is to it. Science changes and adapts. Granted, my post is making the assumption that most atheists obtain their beliefs and views on the world from objective, quantifiable information and observation.

And then people like me, who have some insight, fall through the cracks and everyone eats up this big, scientific lie.

You think quite highly of yourself. "Arrogance diminishes wisdom."

And yes, people who simply accept what anyone in a lab coat tells them are no better than someone who accepts what anyone in a religious garb tells them. You must examine the reasoning and evidence behind their claims.

And what exactly is this "scientific lie" you seem to think people are swallowing?

 

[Emyunoxious]

I am an Atheist but I never crammed anything down anyone's throats. I just am, what I am. I find religion fascinating but I don't believe in a God. The problem is Atheist at one point were not like this. They never attacked anyone unless provoked.

We must be living in different worlds, because I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe you just didn't notice it before, but this conflict between religion and irreligion is not new.

I think more people who become Atheist, the more likely hood you are going to get idiots.

That's probability, yes, but I'd say that if someone becomes and atheist, they've obviously grown in intellect.

Most people just hitch on the band wagon and forget the principles of being an Atheist.

... Principles?

Of being an atheist?

Keep going...

It is not a religion and most Atheist got to stop thinking it is. That is the problem. Atheist have gatherings and codes and what not these days that I just crack up.

Okay. Which is it? Are there atheist principles? Or does it not have codes?

Make up your mind.

Your an Atheist, you just need to stop making it into a religion. It is just a terminology. Once something becomes cult like, it just turns into a huge mess.

Just because you appear to have no interest in a community of like-minded individuals doesn't mean that anyone else does.

I for one never jump a band wagon. I am what I am... I decided I did not believe in a God because I could not fathom the idea. Does not make me closed minded, it just makes me think differently then others. I don't think anyone is wrong or right. It is just your opinion.

Oh, you're so individualistic and approving. So approving, in fact, that you're wrong.

Someone is wrong or right. We might not be certain which of us it is, but atheists and theists can't both be right.

It's not a matter of opinion.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

And what exactly is this "scientific lie" you seem to think people are swallowing?

The non-existent scientific analysis that there is no creator. Simply put.

And I am not arrogant. Of course I would seem that way to anyone who decides not to challenge themselves to look beyond heresy and half-baked theoretical concepts that somehow miraculously nullify the truth that science is still primitive and hasn't really done a whole lot outside of theory.

Atheists attack theists with nothing anymore tangible then what theists claim. This is why being atheist is like having a ball and chain around your mind, because you exclude the possibility of a creator. which is quite simply retarded, as religion and science do not exclude one another.

 

[Emyunoxious]

The non-existent scientific analysis that there is no creator. Simply put.

There isn't a scie... What? This doesn't even make sense. I agree. There isn't a scientific analysis of that. I don't think anyone here said there was.

religion and science do not exclude one another.

The natures of religion and science are exactly opposed.

Religion is faith, science is fact.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

The natures of religion and science are exactly opposed.

Religion is faith, science is fact.

Any biased atheist or ridiculous religious person would say that.
The truth is, neither one opposes the other. Am I right or am I right?

And an atheist cannot label religion as false by scientific standards, so why do they?
Kind of makes my point_