The 'fire' at Nibelheim
- Thread starter sleeping-lionheart
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With the whole fire occurring and the cover-up by ShinRa hires, it just all seems to add to Cloud's already messed up memory. I mean he's wondering around the World, confused on so many situations, who he is, who he previously partied with, who was in charge of him, and who he grew up with, that one more lie to him just kept piling on.
Sad that not enough people survived to step up and speak out for what really happened.
Sad that not enough people survived to step up and speak out for what really happened.
poker king46
materia master
first off i advise that everyone go play though and watch the special cinema
2nd)read through the stragty guide
3rd)sephy did have a tat on his hand but thats been covered
4th)where did you get the idea of shinra covering it up?if memory serves correct(and it usually does) sephiroth was one powerful badass,meaning that with the power of jenova he could recreate many things cuz thats what jenova cells do: they take the shape of whatever the controller needs(for lack of better name) and by many things that could mean the power to recreate and entire town like oh say nibleheim.
5th)zack did die right in front of midgar(or rather with midgar in the backround)
i do not know if any of this helps but i sure hope it does.
oh and as for the who or what are the party chaseing that is jenova as sephiroth so in a sense it IS sephiroth but at the same time his body is in the northern cave.
2nd)read through the stragty guide
3rd)sephy did have a tat on his hand but thats been covered
4th)where did you get the idea of shinra covering it up?if memory serves correct(and it usually does) sephiroth was one powerful badass,meaning that with the power of jenova he could recreate many things cuz thats what jenova cells do: they take the shape of whatever the controller needs(for lack of better name) and by many things that could mean the power to recreate and entire town like oh say nibleheim.
5th)zack did die right in front of midgar(or rather with midgar in the backround)
i do not know if any of this helps but i sure hope it does.
oh and as for the who or what are the party chaseing that is jenova as sephiroth so in a sense it IS sephiroth but at the same time his body is in the northern cave.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonius
Well, almost all the survivors were rounded up and dicked about with by Hojo to test the Reunion Theory.
Sephiroth had no tattoo. The tatoo was only applied to subjects of the Sephiroth copy project. Sephiroth was not one, nor did his Jenova puppet do any real interacting with people. Number 1, who you can meet again in the crater, is just another sephiroth copy subject.
If you ask the people at the inn, they eventually let the truth slip. Its recreation by ShinRa has also been confirmed in the Ultimanias and in CC.
Now, Sephiroth is powerful, but what reason would he have to recreate and repopulate Nibleheim, and when would he have done it?
A few miles out of Midgar, actually. Cloud has to walk the rest of the way.
It's Jenova, but Sephiroth is in control of her/it. The parts you fight are different body parts that fall off as the body falls apart.
poker king46
materia master
i'll be a little bit more clear on some point(s)
yes sephiroth did have a tattoo its said so by dio of the gold saucer. the sephiroth that he speaks to is the whole jenova as sephiroth thing.and it also says so in the 1997 oficial strategy guide, i'm reading from it right now.
and as for why he would do it(as a side note after reading your post i went back and did it and your right i admit) is to mess with cloud's mind why else does he show him images of nible? to unhinge his mind(and to get the truth known but it brings about the unhingeing)
yes sephiroth did have a tattoo its said so by dio of the gold saucer. the sephiroth that he speaks to is the whole jenova as sephiroth thing.and it also says so in the 1997 oficial strategy guide, i'm reading from it right now.
and as for why he would do it(as a side note after reading your post i went back and did it and your right i admit) is to mess with cloud's mind why else does he show him images of nible? to unhinge his mind(and to get the truth known but it brings about the unhingeing)
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonius
No, Dio says
'Dio: Well, a while back, a boy your age came in and asked me if I had a 'Black
Materia'. I thought you might know who he was, seein' as how you're both about
the same age.
Cloud: Did he happen to have…a Black Cape…
Dio: Why yes, yes indeed. And a tattoo on his hand that said '1'.
The black caped / cloaked people are subject of the copy project. You can meet them, including 1, later on in the game. #1 is not Sephy.
Forgive my bluntness but smeg your guide. 10 to 1 it's the bradygames guide, but in any case, it is not an authoritative source. They are made totally independently of the company that made the game, and often get major plot points wrong.
But why would he recreate THE REAL Nibleheim and then HIRE PEOPLE to act like its inhabitants?
And again, these people admit to having been hired if you talk to them enough. We know from in game that ShinRa rebuilt Nibleheim as a coverup.
poker king46
materia master
are yoiu really going to THAT sepicific abouit what dio says? when he mantions the "boy aobut your age" we all know hes talking aboiut sephiroth and as for the whole major plot thing, i don't entirely agree its been correct95% of the time.what i don't see at all is how his tattoo has anything to do majorly with the plot, could yoiu elorbate on this please?
what i meant by that was that would be the reason as to why did youi not read my post?i went back and did talk to everyone enough times and got the truth on it, but if it were not that way it would be to totally F*** with cloud's mind. it was a totally hypothetical situation.
what i meant by that was that would be the reason as to why did youi not read my post?i went back and did talk to everyone enough times and got the truth on it, but if it were not that way it would be to totally F*** with cloud's mind. it was a totally hypothetical situation.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonius
Except we all don't.
Sephiroth isn't even remotely close to Cloud's age. He was a war hero before Cloud even left Nibleheim.
I never said this was a major plot element. I said that they often do get major plot elements wrong, and your chances for the details are even worse.
Besides, 3rd party guides simply cannot trump the source materials. I shall rest upon my laurels of meeting #1 in game. It's not Sephy.
Yes, but you still didn't answer the when question, or why he would rebuild a real Nibleheim when he can just create an illusory one. Even in your total hypothetical, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
poker king46
materia master
i know that he wa sa war hero b4 cloud left nible but just like vincent he is physcially close to cloud's age.(i do vincent is 30 physcially but it was a example)
and i am sorry that i misunderstood you but just make sure i did misunderstand what you meant.and actually,considering what it is, it is a pretty discrptive guide.and i agree thats source materials trump the 3rd partys but it most certinaly is sephiroth and he does have a tattoo.
as to the nible burning down thing why would he? simply because while he is powerful, it is extreamly if not impossible to keep up an illsion of that size.
and i did answer the why, it is to mess with his head, the when, well i would immagin sometime shortly after the fire.
and i am sorry that i misunderstood you but just make sure i did misunderstand what you meant.and actually,considering what it is, it is a pretty discrptive guide.and i agree thats source materials trump the 3rd partys but it most certinaly is sephiroth and he does have a tattoo.
as to the nible burning down thing why would he? simply because while he is powerful, it is extreamly if not impossible to keep up an illsion of that size.
and i did answer the why, it is to mess with his head, the when, well i would immagin sometime shortly after the fire.
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonius
So, would you say Cid is close to Cloud's age? Because that's the exact sort of gap we're talking about.
Where is Sephy's tatoo, then? Seriously? I see no tattoo when we actually see his hands, uncovered, in the crater.
And why do we meet #1 in game?
Yes, but the question is why go to the effort in the first place. In either case, it's a waste of resources he can expend more effeciently.
Yes, but he can mess with Cloud's head in a number of other ways too, including appearing only to Cloud. It makes no sense for him to fool everyone that comes through if his goal is Cloud and Cloud alone.
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poker king46
materia master
no i would not,what source are you getting sephiroth's physical age?when i see for myself then i'll fully answer your queston.
the sephy with the tattoo is the when you chase throughout the game, the jenova one the one you meet in the crater(and i'm asumeing you mean at the end of the game) is his real body in which i do not believe that it has a tattoo.
the sephy with the tattoo is the when you chase throughout the game, the jenova one the one you meet in the crater(and i'm asumeing you mean at the end of the game) is his real body in which i do not believe that it has a tattoo.
Sephiroth's age is unknown. I got that from the game manual book but you can give him an age in CC [I think]
I never did see a tattoo on the final Sephiroth and not like you have enough time to actually look at him. The battle ends as soon as it starts even if you stall and such v.v;;
~Tifa~
I never did see a tattoo on the final Sephiroth and not like you have enough time to actually look at him. The battle ends as soon as it starts even if you stall and such v.v;;
~Tifa~
Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonius
I can give you a minimum of 30 years, given that's how long Vincent was interred for, and the fact that Lucrecia was already pregnant when Hojo shot him.
But why would Sephiroth display his hand with a 1 when he himself has none, and his Jenova puppet otherwise is an accurate protrayal to his real self?
poker king46
materia master
again not really answering my queston in terms of source but true. and is 9 years really that much?people,no matter where, are a bad judge of age. i myself have been asked if i was 23 or 24 when in reality i'm only 17,so about 6 or 7 years adding another two years is not that much,like i said 9 years is not a very large age gap
thats the 64 million dollar question now isn't it?my only answer is sioply that i do not know, what i do know is that he has a number 1 tattooed on his hand throughout the game.(the jenova one i mean)
thats the 64 million dollar question now isn't it?my only answer is sioply that i do not know, what i do know is that he has a number 1 tattooed on his hand throughout the game.(the jenova one i mean)
joeyfinalfantasygod
White Mage
It did happened the thing is shinra managed to rebuild it very fast to hide the fact it was all their fault all theirs left then is sephiroth clone failures and shinra workers.
Most of what Dragon Mage said is right and had some interesting theories in there.
Sephiroth isnt half Jenova though. Hojo and Lucrecia had a kid and Hojo injected jenova cells in lucrecia's womb.
You dont even see the real sephiroth until you give him the black materia. Otherwise he is using Jenova body parts as morphed selfs. Hence why he can fly around and disappear and do silly things. Sephiroth himself didnt have a tatoo just his remote-controlled shadows with frequency jenova on them. (in a sense)
Also Cloud really didnt lie or create anything by observing zack. It looks like it because of the coincidence of him working with Zack but it isnt the case. After Cloud ran off and passed out at the train station you will see him absorb tifa's memories of him. He also does it periodically through the game. Kind of like a brain drain from the person next to him. Evidence to support the theory goes to when cloud makes sure tifa stands outside the mako reactor but has first hand knowledge of what are in the test silos. Sephiroth even explains the jenova workings to him about his voice, appearance etc changing. It could very well be that Cloud starts remembering his own past, but i think it deteriorated to almost nothing and he had to relearn what everyone else knew about him throughout the game. He even remembered saving "himself" when he was passed out on the floor during the nibelheim incident.
Some problems ive come up with were when he was trying to remember how he got in to SOLDIER, and he came to the conclusion
"i didnt have to worry about it because..."
like everything would be alright? Who screwed with his head?
Good guess could be hojo. Could also show some light what Sephiroth meant about how Hojo created him piece by piece. (Even though we know he really was born)
I dont see Cloud lying to himself. His memories were unintentional imo. Then again it could just be another story hole and they didnt know where to go with it.
I dont think the other tatted clones died because they didnt have anything to look forward to. I think alot will be shown to light when we know who cloud's mom and dad really are.
Sephiroth isnt half Jenova though. Hojo and Lucrecia had a kid and Hojo injected jenova cells in lucrecia's womb.
You dont even see the real sephiroth until you give him the black materia. Otherwise he is using Jenova body parts as morphed selfs. Hence why he can fly around and disappear and do silly things. Sephiroth himself didnt have a tatoo just his remote-controlled shadows with frequency jenova on them. (in a sense)
Also Cloud really didnt lie or create anything by observing zack. It looks like it because of the coincidence of him working with Zack but it isnt the case. After Cloud ran off and passed out at the train station you will see him absorb tifa's memories of him. He also does it periodically through the game. Kind of like a brain drain from the person next to him. Evidence to support the theory goes to when cloud makes sure tifa stands outside the mako reactor but has first hand knowledge of what are in the test silos. Sephiroth even explains the jenova workings to him about his voice, appearance etc changing. It could very well be that Cloud starts remembering his own past, but i think it deteriorated to almost nothing and he had to relearn what everyone else knew about him throughout the game. He even remembered saving "himself" when he was passed out on the floor during the nibelheim incident.
Some problems ive come up with were when he was trying to remember how he got in to SOLDIER, and he came to the conclusion
"i didnt have to worry about it because..."
like everything would be alright? Who screwed with his head?
Good guess could be hojo. Could also show some light what Sephiroth meant about how Hojo created him piece by piece. (Even though we know he really was born)
I dont see Cloud lying to himself. His memories were unintentional imo. Then again it could just be another story hole and they didnt know where to go with it.
I dont think the other tatted clones died because they didnt have anything to look forward to. I think alot will be shown to light when we know who cloud's mom and dad really are.
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Psychomaze
Chocobo Inbreeder
Government cover up by Shin-ra.... go to Tifa's room (present day) and read a letter on the desk since it's a status report and pretty much spills the beans
In addition, in Crisis Core, if you find a reporter snooping around and NOT turn him in... his investigation mentions that why did the whole population no longer has the local ' accent' and knows nothing about the geography around the area, unlike the real natives do.
Then after the Sephiroth incident in Crisis Core, Shin-ra stepped in immediately for 'damage control' - picked up anyone who still had a pulse (at least I think...) to prepare them for the Sephiroth Clone Project (the name is revealed in the core game) As this is being done, a Turk (I don't remember who, but I think it's one of the unnamed ones from Before Crisis) reports that the rebuilding of the town will start immediately.
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Ryushikaze
Deus Admiral Parsimonius
He did absorb some of Tifa's memories of him, but he ALSO copied Zack's memories and persona and absorbed them into his own, along with Tifa's memory and his own idealized version of how he wanted to be.
Zack's memories, natch.
Sephiroth was toying with Cloud's. His word is less than reliable.
He WAS lying to himself, just not consciously.
His dad died when he was young and his mother raised him alone in Nibleheim. She died in the Nibleheim fire.
Everything Ryushikaze said is the truth. Thank you.
Okay, fine. You're the one who wanted to get technical here, not me!
I was saying that Sephiroth is 'half-Jenova' because that easily describes his realtion to the creature. He had Jenova cells injected into him when he was still developing, as you've noted. This means that those cells have been integrated into his DNA.
This process is called 'grafting'. They do this to make winter-hardy roses and to make crossbreeds of fruit. You basically take a (for example) an orange tree. Not a special breed, but a normal orange. Then you make a small slice in the tree at the base of the branches when the tree is still young and you put in a small piece of core from another tree, like lemon or apple. The resulting fruit of that tree will be an orange/lemon crossbreed.
This is essentially what happened when the Jenova cells were injected into Lucrecia's womb. The alien cells were grafted into the human cells.
This basically makes Sephiroth more alien then any of the other clones. He's actually got non-human DNA, whereas the 'clones' can only have their own--entirely human--cells be affected by the Jenova cells.
So, I said that Sephiroth is half-Jenova because Jenova is actually a part of him. He may not be entirely 'half' or even 'quarter' but it's still there in his genetic code.
Has that been cleared up now?
rrutter81 said:
Okay, fine. You're the one who wanted to get technical here, not me!
I was saying that Sephiroth is 'half-Jenova' because that easily describes his realtion to the creature. He had Jenova cells injected into him when he was still developing, as you've noted. This means that those cells have been integrated into his DNA.
This process is called 'grafting'. They do this to make winter-hardy roses and to make crossbreeds of fruit. You basically take a (for example) an orange tree. Not a special breed, but a normal orange. Then you make a small slice in the tree at the base of the branches when the tree is still young and you put in a small piece of core from another tree, like lemon or apple. The resulting fruit of that tree will be an orange/lemon crossbreed.
This is essentially what happened when the Jenova cells were injected into Lucrecia's womb. The alien cells were grafted into the human cells.
This basically makes Sephiroth more alien then any of the other clones. He's actually got non-human DNA, whereas the 'clones' can only have their own--entirely human--cells be affected by the Jenova cells.
So, I said that Sephiroth is half-Jenova because Jenova is actually a part of him. He may not be entirely 'half' or even 'quarter' but it's still there in his genetic code.
Has that been cleared up now?