The Most Evil

[Dean Winchester]

The other character I've voted for is Sorceress Ultimecia. She had no motivation for her deeds - she just did them. Between possessing Matron and causing international war to releasing the most powerful sorceress of the time, all in hopes of accomplishing a world where only she can exist ... there's not much else but pure evil for the sheer sake of it, right there.

Well Ultimacia hated the SeeDs, all of them, mainly because she knew they were destined to destroy her. Due to that, Ultimacia slaughtered as many SeeDs as she could, as we can see when entering her castle, bodies scattered all over the place, they were White SeeDs.

Her motivation was to rule through all times, to have past, present and future merged together to spread chaos and ruin through ages.

 

[Nikkolas]

It's her fault that:
A) The SeeDs wanted to destroy her.
B) That the SeeDs were evena ble to destroy her.

By trying to prevent the thing she feared, she made it come to pass.

 

[clean_queen]

Ah, so many of you would say 'Sephiroth' -of course!...but who created him? Who maimed vincent and killed Lucrecia? Who made cloud and revived Jenova?
H-O-J-O

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Sorry Oathkeeper. Advent Children > logic.


Sephiroth: What I want, Cloud, is to sail the darkness of the
cosmos with this Planet as my vessel -- just as my mother did before long ago.

I'm going to have to agree with you on the grounds that Advent Children (and the rest of the FFVII Compilation) was complete bullshit. I can't deny that it's canon, but...god, I really wish it wasn't. I'd just like to make it known that, when I defend Sephiroth, I'm defending the Sephiroth that appeared in Final Fantasy VII. Remember him? The wonderfully-crafted villain with genuine depth and a complex personality (for the time)? Yeah. I loved him. He was awesome. Too bad Nomura took over and turned him into 2-Dimensional Prettyboy #591. I suppose it is rather unfair/closed-minded of me to not take the FFVII Compilation into consideration, but goddamnit, that sin against all that is Final Fantasy should never have existed. It tarnished the good name of a wonderful RPG. *fumes*

However, I still stand by my statement that Sephiroth is not a momma's boy. The fact remains, Sephiroth decapitated JENOVA and repeatedly tore off her body parts, sending them to do battle against a team of powerful warriors. Even if he still thinks JENOVA is his mother, he doesn't exactly treat her very well. He certainly doesn't suck up to her or depend on her in any way. So yes, as of Advent Children, perhaps he does think JENOVA is his mother, but I still can't see why anyone would call him a "momma's boy."

Of course, you can't deny that that statement is quite ridiculous. I honestly don't know what possessed Nomura to include that in the movie's script. It was obvious in FFVII that Sephiroth had come to realize that JENOVA wasn't his mother, considering he no longer thinks of himself as a Cetra. In fact, if memory serves, he blatantly refers to himself as being superior to the Cetra. Besides, logically, he should've gained the knowledge of what JENOVA really was during his time spent in the Lifestream. Of course I'm not saying that the line shouldn't be taken into consideration, but you have to admit that it doesn't make that much sense, given what we say in FFVII itself.

He was the first subject in an experiment that wrecked his mind.

You mean the experiment that Celes went through and came out of perfectly fine? Even without taking into consideration the obvious flaw there, it's still terrible storytelling in that Kefka fails to develop as a character beyond that 2-Dimensional stereotype. I still assert that he's no better than the average Captain Planet villain in terms of character depth.

Also, Sephiroth has no reason to be a villain. His only reason to be a villain is a lie that he knows is a lie. So he continues on being a villain because he's just that stupid and 2-dimensional.

Yes, nevermind the fact that he found out that everything he'd been told over the course of his life was a blatant lie and that he was a monster created for the explicit purpose of slaughtering people in the name of ShinRa. Oh, and the stress/pressure he obviously went through as the best of SOLDIER means nothing, either.

For the record...

FFVII Sephiroth>Kefka
FFVII Compilation Sephiroth<Kefka

 

[Contra Fates]

Ah, so many of you would say 'Sephiroth' -of course!...but who created him? Who maimed vincent and killed Lucrecia? Who made cloud and revived Jenova?
H-O-J-O

I'm gonna have to agree with this. Hojo was one scum-sucking douchebag, whose villainy is rather underrated.

 

[Reality.Fantasy]

I voted Kefka for basically the same reasons that Kendra outlined in the first page. He basically went on a rampage, destroying whatever he wanted whenever he wanted to. Although he's a funny character, he's still mad and his evilness knows no bounds.

 

[Erythritol]

Gee, Erythritol, you sure are cool and edgy because you can hate something popular. */blatant sarcasm*

Would you please explain to me why you think that Sephiroth is a whiny momma's boy? First of all, he doesn't actually think JENOVA is his mother beyond the event in Nibelheim. After that, he comes to realize that JENOVA is not related to him in any way and recognizes her as merely a means to an end. Besides, last time I checked, momma's boys didn't decapitate their mothers and rip off her body parts to do battle with his enemies. Not once over the entire course of the game does Sephiroth show any dependency on JENOVA whatsoever. In fact, it's JENOVA who's being used by Sephiroth to achieve his own ultimate goal. So, let's see here...Sephiroth cuts off JENOVA's body parts, sends her to her death, and uses her to try and take over the world. Yeah. He's totally a momma's boy.

As for the whiny part...I don't understand that, either. Sephiroth is one tough cookie. Let's see you get stabbed through the back with the Buster Sword (thus severing your spinal chord) and still manage to lift someone off the ground with one arm while limping out of what is essentially a nuclear reactor except even more dangerous. If you think Sephiroth is whiny, I really don't see how you could like Kefka. Need I remind you that, every time Kefka encounters the party before the final battle, he either runs away or falls over/gets defeated? Yeah. Kefka sure is tough. I don't honestly know why people accuse Sephiroth of being a sissy when he takes huge amounts of physical punishment in the Nibelheim Reactor alone.

Furthermore, yes, Sephiroth went insane. He'd just discovered that everything he'd ever been told about himself was a blatant lie, and that he was created for the sole purpose of killing people for ShinRa. That's it. That was the only reason he existed. If you found you that you existed for the sole purpose of slaughtering other people, I don't think you would be all smiles and sunshine, either. Sephiroth deemed himself superior as a coping mechanism. He didn't want to believe that he was a monster, so he subconsciously convinced himself that he wasn't. Besides, he doesn't actually whine at all. He goes outside and promptly kills everyone in Nibelheim without a moment's hesitation and doesn't complain a single time. Explain to me how that's "whiny."

Besides, Sephiroth was a SOLDIER. I don't think people realize the stress that comes with being even a regular soldier in our world. Marines are often put under extreme stress and commonly suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder once they come home. Since Sephiroth was the best of SOLDIER (and thus, put under the most pressure), it's only safe to assume that he had a lot on his plate. When he found out that he was created for the explicit purpose of manslaughter (and nothing more), he finally snapped.

Again, I turn your attention to Kefka, who went insane without any reason. How is Kefka less whiny than Sephiroth? He was psychotic without a reason to be psychotic in the first place, at least not that we know of. He whines, complains, and throws hissy fits whenever he gets sand in his boots. Now, as entertaining as that scene was, it doesn't exactly show any integrity on his part.

Honestly, I don't mind if someone doesn't like Sephiroth. Really, I don't. As stated many times, he's not even my favorite villain in the series. But at least get your facts straight before you bash his character.

Oh thank god! Someone thinks I'm cool!

I don't dislike Sephiroth because iM LyKe So tReNdY. I think he's a shit villain. When I was playing FVII, I was just bored. Aside from the fact he's cool looking, I didn't care about him at all. I didn't even understand his motivation. Okay, you went through some files and figured out you were an experiment. And that's a problem why...? It doesn't alter your appearance, and it gives you superhuman powers. Boohoo? Why is that such an issue? (And why didn't they shred or, I don't know, FIND A BETTER HIDING PLACE for such super sensitive files?) So because he finds out he's an experiment, he goes crazy and starts killing everyone (including his friends? hello?) and burning shit down? Um..did I miss something here? How is that a reasonable reaction? You say he went crazy because he thought he was created just for manslaughter. So of course the reasonable thing to do then is.......kill people...because if the thought of existing solely to kill people upsets you...you definitely go right out to kill others, starting with your friends? Makes perfect sense.......right? No.

Oh, and he has the personality of a wet mop. He just stalks around with his serious face all the time, talking about crazy ass shit that makes him sound like he's part of some cult. "I'm going to become one with the planet!!" Okay...you do that, pal.

I love when a villain isn't pointlessly evil and has some sort of explanation, honestly. But seriously, if you're going to explain his motivation...have it make sense please. Sephiroth's motivation just didn't make any sense to me. He also didn't seem that evil. It seemed more like he was taking revenge...which, I guess, makes sense. ...Although he was taking some pretty drastic meteor-summoning revenge.

Okay, normally I really hate when a villain is just like "I'm evil! Muwahaha! Why? Just because I'm evil!" but Kefka is a total exception. He was so damn funny in a horribly sinister way! He killed people and laughed while doing it. He had no problem poisoning a town for no reason, but threw a fit if sand got in his boots. That just makes him interesting. He also had such style! Any man who dresses like that with complete and utter confidence is awesome, in my opinion. That just makes you bad ass. Oh, he also had a cult in the game, AND he achieved god-hood. He also succeeded in destroying the world. Kefka was just an interesting character, and I was entertained any time he was on screen. It wasn't like *sigh* okay....man with silver hair ran thata way...oops, no, now he ran the other way...*sigh*....just missed him again but there's his giant sword... I just found Sephiroth boring. Kefka was colorful.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Oh thank god! Someone thinks I'm cool!

I don't dislike Sephiroth because iM LyKe So tReNdY. I think he's a shit villain. When I was playing FVII, I was just bored. Aside from the fact he's cool looking, I didn't care about him at all. I didn't even understand his motivation. Okay, you went through some files and figured out you were an experiment. And that's a problem why...? It doesn't alter your appearance, and it gives you superhuman powers. Boohoo? Why is that such an issue? (And why didn't they shred or, I don't know, FIND A BETTER HIDING PLACE for such super sensitive files?) So because he finds out he's an experiment, he goes crazy and starts killing everyone (including his friends? hello?) and burning shit down? Um..did I miss something here? How is that a reasonable reaction? You say he went crazy because he thought he was created just for manslaughter. So of course the reasonable thing to do then is.......kill people...because if the thought of existing solely to kill people upsets you...you definitely go right out to kill others, starting with your friends? Makes perfect sense.......right? No.

Well, again, I can't fault someone for just not liking Sephiroth, but your reasons still don't make much sense. You seem to be under the impression that superpowers make everything better. If that were the case, then we'd probably never have any supervillains, because they'd all be too busy being happy about their neat powers to destroy the world. Sephiroth was a genuine freak of nature. That he had superhuman abilities didn't make up for the fact that basically everything he'd been told about himself was a lie. And...a better hiding place? Excuse me, but didn't ShinRa lock those files in a laboratory hidden deep underground behind a secret door? And yes, he goes crazy and starts burning shit down. I told you, it was essentially a coping mechanism. Sephiroth didn't want to believe that he was created to serve ShinRa, so he convinced himself he was superior to ShinRa. In fact, he had to convince himself that he was superior to the entire human race so he didn't have to deal with the harsh reality of his identity.

I agree that Sephiroth isn't the most realistic villain ever, but you have to remember that this game was made in 1997. At the time, RPG's were still a developing media. Before villains like Sephiroth and Kefka, the typical RPG villain acted more along the lines of ExDeath. They were shadowy figures without identities who operated from the shadows. Just like Kefka was one of the first RPG villains to have an actual personality, Sephiroth was basically the first RPG villain who actually had a backstory of some sort. Everyone has to start somewhere. For the time of his creation, Sephiroth was an incredibly complex villain and character.

Oh, and he has the personality of a wet mop. He just stalks around with his serious face all the time, talking about crazy ass shit that makes him sound like he's part of some cult. "I'm going to become one with the planet!!" Okay...you do that, pal.

No personality? 2-Dimensional character? Why, I do believe that sounds exactly like Kefka, good sir! He went around talking about killing, and...that's basically it. That's all there is to him. Oh yeah, and he dresses like a psychotic clown. Because we've never seen psychotic clowns before. *coughStephenKingcough*

In any case, if that's all you saw in Sephiroth's character, you should probably pay more attention to the actual dialogue. Yes, Sephiroth talked about becoming one with the Planet...because that was his goal as a villain. That's because, within the FFVII Universe, that's a perfectly reasonable goal for a villain to have. Kind of like how ExDeath wanted to become one with the Void, Ultimecia wanted to compress time, and Kefka wanted to...err...destroy the world *coughblandcough*.

Besides, Sephiroth actually had...you know...style. Unlike a lot of villains, he really served to intimidate a lot of players during their first playthroughs. He had a sort of presence that wasn't really replicated by any other RPG villains at the time. Still, it's pointless to try to convince you of that, because you just didn't like the personality that he did have. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, but you really should know that there was definitely more to his character than "creepy cult member."

I love when a villain isn't pointlessly evil and has some sort of explanation, honestly. But seriously, if you're going to explain his motivation...have it make sense please. Sephiroth's motivation just didn't make any sense to me. He also didn't seem that evil. It seemed more like he was taking revenge...which, I guess, makes sense. ...Although he was taking some pretty drastic meteor-summoning revenge.

Yes, Sephiroth isn't realistic by today's standards because RPG's are evolving. Kefka is pretty outdated, too, if you haven't noticed. However, again, both of them were created back when RPG's were a lot less complex than they are today...at least storyline-wise. You can't expect them to have completely realistic, dynamic reactions that perfectly replicate human emotion. Again, everyone has to start somewhere. Sephiroth and Kefka are still popular because they each have a redeeming quality. Sephiroth has his style, and Kefka had his colorful personality.

Okay, normally I really hate when a villain is just like "I'm evil! Muwahaha! Why? Just because I'm evil!" but Kefka is a total exception. He was so damn funny in a horribly sinister way! He killed people and laughed while doing it. He had no problem poisoning a town for no reason, but threw a fit if sand got in his boots. That just makes him interesting. He also had such style! Any man who dresses like that with complete and utter confidence is awesome, in my opinion. That just makes you bad ass. Oh, he also had a cult in the game, AND he achieved god-hood. He also succeeded in destroying the world. Kefka was just an interesting character, and I was entertained any time he was on screen. It wasn't like *sigh* okay....man with silver hair ran thata way...oops, no, now he ran the other way...*sigh*....just missed him again but there's his giant sword... I just found Sephiroth boring. Kefka was colorful.

Yes. As I've said many times, I love Kefka. I know it sounds impossible for someone to like both Sephiroth and Kefka in the same way that it sounds impossible for someone to like the Red Sox and the Yankees, but I do. While Sephiroth takes second place behind Kuja in my book, Kefka is still a wonderful villain with interesting one-liners that certainly compensated for his lack of depth. However, I realize that, when it comes down to it, Kefka is nothing more than the archetypical 2-Dimensional psychotic clown. That doesn't prevent me from liking/hating his character as a villain (depending on how you look at it), but it does prevents me from being blinded by nostalgia into thinking that he's the greatest villain to ever grace the Final Fantasy series.

Of course, it's also a mistake to claim that a villain's accomplishments make them better villains. By that logic, Dragonball Z villains would be the greatest antagonists ever because they've destroyed numerous galaxies and planets within the span of just one episode. However, I am of the opinion that the Dragonball Z villains are among the worst (except for Frieza, who will always be a classic anime villain as far as I'm concerned). The fact that Kefka destroyed the world really doesn't make him a more interesting character. Besides, there have been villains within the Final Fantasy series itself who have done more damage to space on a universal scale. Chaos disrupted the flow of time itself, ExDeath nearly absorbed the entire universe with the Void, Ultimecia had already absorbed a significant portion of time/space by the time Squall beat her, and Kuja destroyed a planet himself (hell, it's theorized that he destroyed the crystal that gave life to existence itself). Kefka really isn't even anything special in terms of what he accomplished.

Yes, I love Kefka, and no, I can't fault anyone for disliking Sephiroth. I really hope to make that clear to avoid unneccessary confrontation. However, you pretty much just over-simplified Sephiroth's personality to suit your argument. As far as the original FFVII goes, there was a lot more too him than "The psychopath with a sword." Granted, when it comes to the rest of the FFVII Compilation, Nomura basically stripped Sephiroth of any depth he might've had in the first place, but...that's a whole other argument. I'm speaking for the original Sephiroth, not the cheap knockoff we see in Advent Children and beyond.

 

[Scrutator]

I am still sticking with Sephiroth, because he wasn't just doing it for the glory, like Kefka, but he also did it for his 'Mother'.

You would consider that someone who was doing evil things for someone else more evil than someone who did it because they themselves wanted to in the first place?

 

[Busta]

Kefka's the most evil of them all.

Kuja's corrupted by greed and ambition, but deep down by the end of the game we see he's not as bad as he seems.

Sephiroth...no?

Kefka poisoned all of Doma Castle killing almost everyone incl.uding Cyan's wife and son. He also had no concern for the Esper World as he continually persued their powers in hopes of obtaining them himself in his persue of world domination. Then at the end of the World of Balance, he basically wiped it out turning it into the World of Ruin.

Kefka's the most f'ed up.

 

[Miss Valentine]

I went with Sephiroth. As much as I can understand the Kefka argument, I still need to play FFVI and figure out what the deal is with that guy for myself. Sephy is just the most impressive so far for me, with Kuja a close second. Really there aren't many other good villains out there (Seymour? Yu-Yevon? Vayne? Pah), and as much as the compilation of FFVII is milking at it's worst, you can learn more about his character that way.

But meh, I agree Hojo is much worse, experimenting psycho bastard he is.

 

[Ruud Love]

Sephiroth, he's not looking for money or absolute rule of a kingdom. He's looking for ultimate destruction.

 

[Donald Trump]

there's too many sephiroth fanboys, suprising he isn't winning.

having long hair and a big sword doesnt make an evil villain.

I voted for kefka, he is insane, and has a total disregard for human life

 

[Donald Trump]

Nihilist > whiney emo

the thing about having the most 'evil' thread is that the most of the villains have to made of fail to qualify

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Ahem...

Sgt Pepper, would you please explain to me how Sephiroth is an emo? You see, my major gripe about FFVII haters is that they seem to be under the misconception that Sephiroth spent the entire game slitting his wrists and making love to JENOVA's cold, dead corpse. However, I've played through Final Fantasy VII multiple times, and I'm sorry to say that I've never seen Sephiroth do either of those things even once. In fact, Sephiroth is distinctly anti-emo in that he only actually "complains" about anything during the first few minutes after he goes insane. Even then, it isn't so much "complaining" as it is "psychotic rage." Then again, I'd expect most soldiers would go insane after spending several painful hours finding out that everything they'd ever been told was a blatant lie and that they existed for the sole purpose of slaughtering other people under the name of a harsh dictatorship.

Looking at him under an unbiased light, Sephiroth is undeniably tough. Again I direct your attention towards the scene at the Nibelheim Reactor. Sephiroth got stabbed through the back and impaled by a sword that was easily as large as he was. This probably severed his spinal chord and definitely caused him to lose a lot of blood. Even so, he still had the strength to make his way toward the exit of a Mako Reactor and lift a man of muscular build off the ground with one hand. If nothing else, Sephiroth can take far more physical punishment than Kefka, who either falls down or runs away whenever he's confronted by your party before their final encounter. Hell, he can't even deal with sand in his boot without throwing a hissy fit (as amusing a scene as that was, it doesn't speak well for Kefka's toughness).

I'd really like to know what your definition of "emo" is...Personally, I consider someone to be "emo" when they, despite being competely sane, constantly whine about damn near everything even though their lives aren't that bad in the first place. I don't know what game you were playing, but in FFVII, Sephiroth never really complains at all. Apparently, having emotions makes you an emo, now. Really, the only reason anyone calls him emo in the first place is because he isn't a 2-Dimensional nihilist and because he wears black...or just because they can't handle the fact that he's more popular than Kefka. Then again, I suppose it can't be helped. The internet has warped the definition of the word "emo" so much that ANYONE can be called an emo now.

Oh, and by the way...

there's too many sephiroth fanboys, suprising he isn't winning.

Actually, I consider mindless Kefka fanboys far more annoying than mindless Sephiroth fanboys. I know that Sephiroth's fanbase is larger, but DAMN, Kefka's fanbase is full of smug, self-righteous elitists who think that they're superior because they are older and, as such, were old enough to understand RPG's before Final Fantasy VII came out. To them, anyone who got into Final Fantasy after FFVI is a drooling retard who doesn't deserve to stand in the presence of the Old Skool Master Race. That goes for people who have played FFI-FFVI, too. They're blinded by nostalgia and are unable to see the flaws in Kefka's character (or lack thereof).

Of course, I'd never accuse you of being one of those mindless fanboys, Sgt Pepper, so don't get the wrong idea, here. I'm just saying the Kefka's fanbase tends to have more annoying assholes than Sephiroth's.

having long hair and a big sword doesnt make an evil villain.

You're right and I completely agree with you. Having long hair and a big sword most certainly doesn't make you a good evil villain. However, having an interesting backstory, solid motivations, intimidating presence, emotional impact, and a personal grudge against the main character does make a good evil villain. The fact that Sephiroth has a stylish design is just an added bonus, though his style is probably the main selling point for his character when it comes to a lot of his fanbase in the same way that Kefka's colorful dialogue is his main selling point.

Of course I'm not suggesting that Sephiroth is more evil than Kefka. I am well-aware that this thread is called "The Most Evil" and I did vote for Kefka, considering he's basically evil incarnate. However, I have a hard time staying silent when people accuse Sephiroth of being a 2-Dimensional "emo" whose only selling points are his long hair and oversized katana when there's clearly much more to his character than that.

 

[Donald Trump]

I hate how everyone seems to fawn over sephiroth, he isnt that good, that makes me slightly biased, but then again, who we believe to be the most evil is subjective.

hows this for emo, he finds out he is an experiment, and what does he do, he destroys a whole town, wow thats mature.

and the kefka fanboys > sephiroth fanboys.
Sephy fanboys are like zOMG HE R SO HAWT!!!! OLOLOLOLOL HE HAZA BIG SWORD HE R SUPER BADASS

and what about sephiroth, he becomes bizarro sephiroth, which is fucking stupid, they have something like that on adult swim.

Tbh i dont care how tough he is.

Kefka volunteers for his experiment, and when sephy finds out, its good bye town. so what if everything he has been told is a lie, he is just a bit pathetic.

One of the only things he does well is kill aerith

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

I hate how everyone seems to fawn over sephiroth, he isnt that good, that makes me slightly biased, but then again, who we believe to be the most evil is subjective.

Yes, well I hate how all of the world's FF7 haters flock to Kefka and act as though he's the perfect villain. Honestly, yes, you may very well be biased. It isn't something that we, as imperfect humans, can easily change. However, that doesn't change the fact that you overexaggerated and oversimplified Sephiroth's character while mindlessly praising Kefka, who really is no better. It's impossible to form a completely unbiased opinion. Even so, what you're doing is just senseless character bashing.

hows this for emo, he finds out he is an experiment, and what does he do, he destroys a whole town, wow thats mature.

Yes, that is distinctly not emo. Sephiroth didn't just "find out he was an experiment". It isn't as though someone came up to him and said "Hey, Sephiroth, you're an experiment." No, he had just spent hours reading all about the project that resulted in his birth. Sephiroth (already under a lot of stress from his position in SOLDIER) had found out- in great detail- the truth surrounding his life. More specifically, he'd just read several books devoted to the fact that everything he'd ever been told is a blatant lie. He was an experiment. A monster. A killing machine designed by ShinRa to serve their twisted purposes.

and the kefka fanboys > sephiroth fanboys.
Sephy fanboys are like zOMG HE R SO HAWT!!!! OLOLOLOLOL HE HAZA BIG SWORD HE R SUPER BADASS

Yes, and Kefka fanboys are like "ZOMG KEFKA IS SO AWESUM CUZ HE KILLS WITHOUT ANY MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER! LOLOLOLOLOLOL SEPHY IS TEH EMO MOMMAS BOI AND HES TTTLY GAY 4 CLOWD. LOLOLXDROFLMAO. FF7 IS TEH SUXXORZ AND ALL THOSE WHO PLAY IT DESERVE TO ROT IN HELL!" They then proceed to rant about how they're vastly superior to any "Modern FF" fan because they had the good judgment to be born before 1985 or so. Honestly, their arguments typically consist of "______ is just an emo prettyboy", "[insert Post-FF6 game here] ruined the Final fantasy series", "_____ is only liked because of ______", or "Kefka is superior to ______ (usually Sephiroth)". At least Sephiroth fanboys, annoying as they are, don't insist upon acting like self-righteous assholes who aren't willing to accept any sort of change or any semblance of depth in their antagonists.

and what about sephiroth, he becomes bizarro sephiroth, which is fucking stupid, they have something like that on adult swim.

Wow, insulting a character based on the name of his second form. Good sir, I think your argument just might be flawless. I graciously surrender to you and your vastly superior mastry of logic.

...

Nah, I'm just kidding. That argument sucks and is flawed on even the most fundamental level.

Tbh i dont care how tough he is.

You called him whiny. I disproved that.

Kefka volunteers for his experiment, and when sephy finds out, its good bye town. so what if everything he has been told is a lie, he is just a bit pathetic.

I'm not even quite sure I understand this argument. From what I gather, you're saying that, because Sephiroth went insane, he's a bad villain? But...Kefka went insane, too. In fact, he doesn't even have a REASON to go insane.

One of the only things he does well is kill aerith

Typical FF7-hater response...

 

[Donald Trump]

well done, you've completely avoided a logical arguement.

Yes, and Kefka fanboys are like "ZOMG KEFKA IS SO AWESUM CUZ HE KILLS WITHOUT ANY MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER! LOLOLOLOLOLOL SEPHY IS TEH EMO MOMMAS BOI AND HES TTTLY GAY 4 CLOWD. LOLOLXDROFLMAO. FF7 IS TEH SUXXORZ AND ALL THOSE WHO PLAY IT DESERVE TO ROT IN HELL!" They then proceed to rant about how they're vastly superior to any "Modern FF" fan because they had the good judgment to be born before 1985 or so. Honestly, their arguments typically consist of "______ is just an emo prettyboy", "[insert Post-FF6 game here] ruined the Final fantasy series", "_____ is only liked because of ______", or "Kefka is superior to ______ (usually Sephiroth)". At least Sephiroth fanboys, annoying as they are, don't insist upon acting like self-righteous assholes who aren't willing to accept any sort of change or any semblance of depth in their antagonists.

is this relevant, wait let me think... NOOOOOOOOOOO

Yes, well I hate how all of the world's FF7 haters flock to Kefka and act as though he's the perfect villain. Honestly, yes, you may very well be biased. It isn't something that we, as imperfect humans, can easily change. However, that doesn't change the fact that you overexaggerated and oversimplified Sephiroth's character while mindlessly praising Kefka, who really is no better.

hey, me being biased against sephiroth well done, you've proved somrthing i said.
and if you read my posts properly, you'll realise i deont claim that Kefka is a great villain, i like him more than sephy, yes, but i dont mindlessly praise Kefka

Yes, that is distinctly not emo. Sephiroth didn't just "find out he was an experiment". It isn't as though someone came up to him and said "Hey, Sephiroth, you're an experiment." No, he had just spent hours reading all about the project that resulted in his birth. Sephiroth (already under a lot of stress from his position in SOLDIER) had found out- in great detail- the truth surrounding his life. More specifically, he'd just read several books devoted to the fact that everything he'd ever been told is a blatant lie. He was an experiment. A monster. A killing machine designed by ShinRa to serve their twisted purposes.

so basically, NO1 R UNDASTANDN ME. I'LL KILL TEH TOWN.

You called him whiny. I disproved that.

whiney isnt the opposite tough, you proved he was tough. You didnt prove he isnt whiney.

I'm not even quite sure I understand this argument. From what I gather, you're saying that, because Sephiroth went insane, he's a bad villain? But...Kefka went insane, too. In fact, he doesn't even have a REASON to go insane

so you dont think it effects how evil kefka is that he volunteers for this experiment, knowing that its unsafe and he becomes insane because of his lust for power.
Whereas sephy becomes insane because he finds out he is an experiment, now do you honestly think that that is evil?

Typical FF7-hater response...

lets not jump to conclusions, i dont hate FF7, i prefer Kefka to sephiroth and now i hate FF7?
Also you totally failed to understand that.
I rephrase it, so you couldnt possibly fail to understand, again.
One of the things he does which goes some way to justifying his evilness, is that he kills Aerith.
Because he is one of the few villains who kills one of the protagonist's party

 

[Rydia]

Oathkeeper, there is no need to get defensive everytime someone says that they prefer Kefka over Sephiroth.

We do not need this thread to turn into a flame fest.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Oathkeeper, there is no need to get defensive everytime someone says that they prefer Kefka over Sephiroth.

We do not need this thread to turn into a flame fest.

It's not that he prefers Kefka over Sephiroth, it's that he's bashing Sephiroth's character over things that simply aren't true. If it sounds like I'm flaming him, then I'm sorry, I'll try to tone it down a bit. However, I don't see anything wrong with a friendly debate. It's not like I've got anything against Sgt Pepper, contrary to what he may think, but sometimes it comes across as disdain when you aren't actually speaking in person.

So yeah, I'll try to take it down a notch. Sorry for the misunderstanding, Sgt Pepper. It's just that, when I put my Debating Hat on, I sometimes get a bit carried away...

is this relevant, wait let me think... NOOOOOOOOOOO

It's no less relevant than you saying, and I quote, "and the kefka fanboys > sephiroth fanboys.
Sephy fanboys are like zOMG HE R SO HAWT!!!! OLOLOLOLOL HE HAZA BIG SWORD HE R SUPER BADASS "

Honestly, you just did the exact same thing. I responded to your statement with a different- yet related- statement of my own. You provided me with a stereotypical image of Sephiroth fanboys, so I provided you with a stereotypical image of Kefka fanboys. I'm sorry, but I fail to see how I'm avoiding a logical argument. You're the one who first gave an exaggerated portrayal of Sephiroth's fanbase. If anything, you're the one who's avoiding a logical argument. Of course, I know that's not true, because we were both trying to make a point. Moving on...

hey, me being biased against sephiroth well done, you've proved somrthing i said.
and if you read my posts properly, you'll realise i deont claim that Kefka is a great villain, i like him more than sephy, yes, but i dont mindlessly praise Kefka

Now that's just plain rude, Pepper. I was only agreeing with you to an extent. I was simply saying that I couldn't blame you for being a bit biased because it's human nature to be at least a little biased. What I can blame you for, however, is senselessly bashing Sephiroth's character by oversimplifying his personality to suit your argument. I don't care that you prefer Kefka, but the way you present your point amounts to nothing more than "Sephiroth is a whiny emo and people only like him because he has a big sword". I would never try to belittle someone for preferring one character over a nother. Hell, you could say that Rinoa (my least favorite FF girl) is your favorite character for all I care, so long as you don't blatantly exaggerate the characteristics of another character to make her look better.

so basically, NO1 R UNDASTANDN ME. I'LL KILL TEH TOWN.

No, it's actually more like "I've gone insane and am not thinking clearly, so I'll kill the town out of psychotic rage." He didn't do it because "No one understandes him", he did it because he had, in his insanity, come to recognize humanity as something of a disease who had taken the planet from the Cetra (he believed himself to be a Cetra at the time, remember). Honestly, you overestimate the human mind. In real life, people can only take so much before they crack. As the best of SOLDIER, Sephiroth was already under a fair bit of stress. I'm not saying that it's a lot of stress, but it's a known fact that soldiers in our world often come home suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. However, spending several hours (maybe even days, if I remember correctly) reading about how everything he'd been told about himself was a blatant lie was what finally caused him to crack.

so you dont think it effects how evil kefka is that he volunteers for this experiment, knowing that its unsafe and he becomes insane because of his lust for power.
Whereas sephy becomes insane because he finds out he is an experiment, now do you honestly think that that is evil?

Whoa, now, slow down there, buddy. I never said that Sephiroth was more evil than Kefka. If you'd kindly direct your attention toward my first post in this thread, you'd see that I actually voted for Kefka. However, the fact that Kefka is more evil than Sephiroth does not make him a better antagonist. By your logic, the villains in Captain Planet must be the best antagonists ever.

In any case, don't you think the fact that Kefka volunteered for the experiment might've softened the blow a bit? Sephiroth didn't ask to be infused with J-Cells at birth, he was just a part of Hojo's twisted plan to make the perfect super soldier. I'm not arguing over who's more "evil". That obviously goes to Kefka. I'm arguing over who's the better antagonist. "He was in an experiment that made him go insane!" is just about the most cliche backstory in the book. It certainly doesn't help that Kefka NEVER develops over the course of the story. He's a 1-Dimensional psychopath at the beginning, and a 1-Dimensional psychopath at the end. For as great a villain as Kefka is, he is a very poorly-executed character because there's honestly nothing more to his character than "The 1-Dimensional Psychopath" throughout the whole game.

lets not jump to conclusions, i dont hate FF7, i prefer Kefka to sephiroth and now i hate FF7?
Also you totally failed to understand that.
I rephrase it, so you couldnt possibly fail to understand, again.
One of the things he does which goes some way to justifying his evilness, is that he kills Aerith.
Because he is one of the few villains who kills one of the protagonist's party

Fair enough. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

See? Ha HA! I can admit that I'm wrong! Oathkeeper isn't a TOTAL asshole! Boo yah!

Anyway...as I've said many times, I like Kefka. I think that he's a wonderfully entertaining character with a wealth of amazing one-liners and a sort of villainous cowardice that really helps to make the player hate him. Even so, I prefer Sephiroth because he actually has some semblance of character depth (as far as the original FFVII is concerned, anyway...), an intriguing backstory, a more intimidating presence, and he gets things done with style. However, that doesn't mean that I intend to constantly belittle Kefka and bash his character over things that simply aren't true. Just because I prefer Sephiroth doesn't mean that I have to argue my point by calling Kefka, for example, a "boring villain dressed up in a stupid clown costume who talks like a disgruntled poet".

So, if you prefer Kefka over Sephiroth, that's fine. It's perfectly alright. My problem isn't with people who prefer Kefka or even with people who dislike Sephiroth. My problem is that people who prefer Kefka feel that they have to constantly bash Sephiroth's character over baseless assumptions just so that they can remind everyone of their viewpoint.

Yes, there are things I don't like about Sephiroth, too. His backstory is FAR from the most realistic I've seen even if it was impressive for the time, his skintight black leather is hardly practical for combat and simply makes him look like a male stripper, that Masamune of his would easily collapse under is own weight by any real-world physics (at least judging by the way Sephiroth uses it), and in recent Compilation titles, Nomura has successfully stripped him of any depth he had in the original Final Fantasy VII. However, while he's by no means a flawless antagonist, he definitely is not a whiny emo and, contrary to popular belief, he's not a momma's boy, either.

Again, I'm sorry if I came across as overly hostile.