Who Was Stronger: Seifer or Squall?

[The_Oathkeeper]

Plus, Seifer has some advantages on Squall. He's a far fiercer fighter, he can use magic without GFs, etc..

Storyline-wise, I'm actually not sure that GF's are required to use Para-Magic at all. Of course I realize that, as far as gameplay is concerned, no one can use standard Magic (under normal circumstances) without a GF Junctioned. However, as far as the storyline is concerned, Para-Magic and Guardian Forces are typically referred to as separate from one-another. Though I can't remember the exact quote, I believe a tutorial in the game said that what makes Balamb Garden stand out among the other Gardens is its use of Para-Magic and Guardian Forces.

Then there's the fact that Seifer's ability to use Magic without a GF Junctioned is never mentioned in the story. Don't you think that would hold some significance in the storyline if only certain people could use Para-Magic without a Guardian Force Junctioned? Plus, if I remember correctly, I seem to remember SeeD Trainees using Magic during the Garden Wars. Of course, I don't know how much weight this holds, considering SeeD are trained in the usage of GF's from pretty much the moment they arrive at the Garden. I just think that it's unlikely that Seifer is a special case. Besides, doesn't he only ever use Fire Spells?

I'd say that GF's are neccessary in order to use stronger Magic, but, storyline-wise, most of the characters can probably use the weaker Para-Magic spells without aid from a GF. Again, I realize that this contradicts what we see in gameplay, but the storyline does refer to GF's and Para-Magic as separate abilities. Plus, I really think that, if Seifer were the only student at Balamb who could use Magic naturally, they would've pointed that out at some time during the storyline. We could always just chalk it up to an error on the part of the creators, though.

As for Seifer's insanity...Well, maybe he wasn't batshit crazy just yet, but he definitely wasn't sane enough to think clearly and fully comprehend the consequences of his actions. Yes, he knows what he's doing, but he doesn't understand the impact his actions are having on the world around him. He'd just been through so much that he finally cracked. It's not as obvious as some characters with emotional issues (like, say, Sephiroth during the Nibelheim incident), but Seifer definitely has problems.

 

[Jimmy]

I think Squall is the strongest, in their first duel Seifer uses a fire attack to throw Squall down and slashes him and then Squall slashes back, it was probably a draw.

Then in the game Squall beats Seifer one on one...and then goes on to fight Edea.

Seifer kills Odin with a single move, but then gets owned by Gilgamesh.

On the other hand Seifer was the one who was choosen to be the captain of Squad B, and i doubt it was because of his leadership capabilities since he as none, so either it was because of his streght or because Headmaster Cid wanted to give him a chance.

But Squall along the game beats a lot of powerful enemies (with help), also Squall was put in charge of the entire Garden, and as a lot of devastating attacks and combos especially Lion Heart which can beat Seifer in one round, although it's understandable that they could not make an enemy boss have such a type of attack.

But since Squall in terms of story beats Seifer alone one time i think he is the strongest, also in a one on one fight Squall could easily beat Seifer (the boss) i mean what's Seifer compared to Ultima Weapon or Omega Weapon???

 

[Nikkolas]

Like L said its retarded to judge by game mechanics, which voids your arguement.

Nope. Squall and the entire party never used magic in cutscenes. Seifer does.

Besides, game mechanics is storyline related. If it wasn’t, then Seifer vs. Odin wouldn’t be void and we know it’s Edea’s limit break she used to pwn Squall after the fight on Disk 1... Gameplay and story can be closely tied.

Storyline-wise, I'm actually not sure that GF's are required to use Para-Magic at all. Of course I realize that, as far as gameplay is concerned, no one can use standard Magic (under normal circumstances) without a GF Junctioned. However, as far as the storyline is concerned, Para-Magic and Guardian Forces are typically referred to as separate from one-another. Though I can't remember the exact quote, I believe a tutorial in the game said that what makes Balamb Garden stand out among the other Gardens is its use of Para-Magic and Guardian Forces.

This could be true. It’s been a long time since I played the game.

Then there's the fact that Seifer's ability to use Magic without a GF Junctioned is never mentioned in the story. Don't you think that would hold some significance in the storyline if only certain people could use Para-Magic without a Guardian Force Junctioned? Plus, if I remember correctly, I seem to remember SeeD Trainees using Magic during the Garden Wars. Of course, I don't know how much weight this holds, considering SeeD are trained in the usage of GF's from pretty much the moment they arrive at the Garden. I just think that it's unlikely that Seifer is a special case. Besides, doesn't he only ever use Fire Spells?

A. Good point.
B. Yes, that seems to be his preference.

As for Seifer's insanity...Well, maybe he wasn't batshit crazy just yet, but he definitely wasn't sane enough to think clearly and fully comprehend the consequences of his actions. Yes, he knows what he's doing, but he doesn't understand the impact his actions are having on the world around him. He'd just been through so much that he finally cracked. It's not as obvious as some characters with emotional issues (like, say, Sephiroth during the Nibelheim incident), but Seifer definitely has problems.

Well obviously. He and Squall both had issues. Squall just had the benefit of coming to terms with them and not constantly having his former love beat him up. (If you choos eto fight Seifer with Rinoa anyway)

But since Squall in terms of story beats Seifer alone one time i think he is the strongest, also in a one on one fight Squall could easily beat Seifer (the boss) i mean what's Seifer compared to Ultima Weapon or Omega Weapon???

Well he’s a lot faster for one. Odin could kill Squall with his Zantetsuken and Seifer’s move is even faster.
.

 

[Jimmy]

He might be faster, but he is a lot weaker in fact as a boss he is one of the weakest. And he only uses the move he used to counter Odins attack against Odin, when fighting the others he uses a different attack "Demon Slice" or something like that.

 

[Nikkolas]

He used Bloodfest on the party in the final fight where he kills Odin. He uses Demon Slice in the second fight.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

This could be true. It’s been a long time since I played the game.

To tell you the truth, it is mainly speculation on my part. I actually heard the idea from someone on the GameFAQ's forums, and it just...made sense to me. I figured, if GF's and Para-Magic really are referred to separately, and we see SeeD Trainees using Para-Magic, then perhaps it really was true. Still, it isn't outright confirmed in the game itself. You kind of have to read between the lines a little bit and fill in a few of the blanks for yourself. Still, it does clear up one or two plotholes concerning the usage of Para-Magic. The biggest plothole would probably be the fact that Galbadia soldiers can use basic Para-Magic spells like Fire, Thunder, and Blizzard, when they certainly don't have access to GF's.

My theory is that a person can be trained to use "standard" Para-Magic (such as Firaga, Thundaga, Silence, etc.) without the use of a Guardian Force. However, to use the more advanced spells (Ultima, Flare, Meteor, etc.), a person needs to be Junctioned to a GF. That's why Balamb Garden is still considered superior to other military forces. Since it practices the usage of both Guardian Forces and Para-Magic, its SeeD have access to a wider range of more powerful Spells as opposed to the standard-issue magic found in the Galbadia Military and such.

Well obviously. He and Squall both had issues. Squall just had the benefit of coming to terms with them and not constantly having his former love beat him up. (If you choos eto fight Seifer with Rinoa anyway)

Yeah, that'd be a real kick to the crotch, proverbially speaking...Though I don't know if Seifer was still that interested in Rinoa, I think this supports my "adrenaline rush" theory. If your ex-girlfriend, your friend/rival, and your other acquaintance arrived solely to kick your ass, don't you think you'd be a bit tense? Though Seifer appeared calm on the outside, I really do think that his "fight or flight" instinct kicked in and helped him to defeat Odin.

Well he’s a lot faster for one. Odin could kill Squall with his Zantetsuken and Seifer’s move is even faster.

To tell you the truth, I'm not really sure if that was actual speed. Seifer just kind of...stood in one position and let Odin cleave himself in half. At least that's what it looked like. If he were moving at supersonic speeds or something, you'd think his position would've...I dunno...changed just a bit. In fact, I'm not quite sure what Seifer does that results in Odin's death. It doesn't look like speed, anyway, considering he's in the exact same place after the "attack" as he was before it. Honestly, he didn't move so much as a millimeter. Unless Seifer has some sort of magical ability that causes his opponent to gravitate toward his Gunblade or something...

...Go ahead. Make a sex joke. I dare you. >.<

Anyway...

I feel it's worth noting that the Japanese characters that appear on the screen read something along the lines of "Zantetsuken Reverse." Maybe that technique was developed for the sole purpose of countering Zantetsuken. I'm not sure why Seifer would take the initiative to develop a technique for the sole purpose of countering Zantetsuken, but it's the only theory I've got at the moment. *shrug* Any ideas?

 

[Nikkolas]

Well here’s my idea. Up to you if you want to subscribe to it.

If you want a real world explanation of why we don’t see Seifer move, it’s an in-battle scene on a Playstation 1 game. Graphical limitations.

From a more story perspective, look at the vid exactly

The crux of my point is that we don’t even see what happens to Odin. We see him charge at Seifer, than a flash, then he’s passed Seifer and is cut in two.

This is a somewhat common dramatic element I’ve seen in a few places. Here’s another example of it from the video game Tekken Tag Tournament

See how we see the two opponents charge and slash at one another but don’t see which one of them connected? They are actually passed each other and the suspense builds as the viewer wonders which one dealt the fatal blow.

I felt this was the effect they were going for in that scene with Odin; minus the fact Seifer didn’t appear to move.

Still speaking in story, there are plenty of times in fiction where characters don’t appear to move but that’s just because our eyes can’t follow. Citing DragoN Ball Z, there’s a very famous scene with Goku fighting the Ginyu Force. He is standing still to the rest of us but actually moving.

That’s just my theory on the whole shebang. Up to you all to decide.

As for Seifer’s Zantetsuken Reverse, I just view it as Seifer’s version of the Zantetsuken. He’s developed his own insta-kill move just like Odin or Yojimbo have. I don’t view it as specifically a counter for Odin’s move but that’s just me.

Also, literally translated, the characters mean “cutting iron sword” for Zantetsuken and for Seifer’s move, they add “return” or “reverse”.

Finally, Zantetsuken Reverse is a fan name from what I've seen. It's perfectly possible all Seifer actually did was a normal swipe with his gunblade and not some special technique. The kenji appear because they always appear when Odin slashes. But because this time it was Odin who got killed instead of the opponent, they added the "reverse" symbols.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

You could very well say that it was graphical limitations that prevented them from accurately displaying his speed, but don't you think they could've at least shown him in a different position than the one he was in before the attack? I don't see why they'd have him remain perfectly still as Odin charges head-first into his blade. Besides, even if they wanted him to move at DBZ-like speeds, how difficult is it to portray Seifer disappearing from where he's standing and then reappearing in a different location? If he had moved at all, his arm would've at least changed its position to show that he'd slashed with his sword or something like that.

Your example from Tekken Tag Tournament is accurate in that it has been used many times in Japanese media, but the fact that, as you pointed out, Seifer didn't move is pretty significant. I mean, what could he possibly have done? What kind of finishing blow could he possibly have dealt that didn't involve any motion on his part? There was no reason for him to return to that exact same position after the attack, unless he wanted to psyche Squall and co. out with his "Magical Invisible Sword Strike" or something like that.

As for the "DBZ Speed" thing...I really doubt that Seifer could be moving that fast. Besides, that sort of "speed" doesn't make any sort of logical sense. Even if he traveled fast enough to leave an afterimage, it would only have lasted for about a split-second, at the most. I don't see how he could be moving around freely, yet still appear to be standing still for more than a few seconds. Even so, if he had Dragonball Z-level capabilities, I really don't think Squall and co. would've had a chance against him.

That's really what confuses me the most. Squall and co. are, physically speaking, not that much higher than "peak human" in terms of their own capabilities. Seifer was always portrayed the same way. In fact, he was weak enough for Squall to defeat in one-on-one combat not too long ago. I don't see how he could've suddenly upgraded to DBZ-level strength in such a short amount of time. What's more, I don't see how Squall and co. could've beaten such an opponent.

I suppose it's reasonable to assume that Seifer had just developed his own version of Zantetsuken, but it would have to have been slow enough for Squall and co. to evade in the first place. Seifer didn't seem like he had any intention to hold back, after all.

 

[Nikkolas]

You could very well say that it was graphical limitations that prevented them from accurately displaying his speed, but don't you think they could've at least shown him in a different position than the one he was in before the attack? I don't see why they'd have him remain perfectly still as Odin charges head-first into his blade. Besides, even if they wanted him to move at DBZ-like speeds, how difficult is it to portray Seifer disappearing from where he's standing and then reappearing in a different location? If he had moved at all, his arm would've at least changed its position to show that he'd slashed with his sword or something like that.

Logical error in Final Fantasy is not too new, though.
Best answer I got sadly.

Your example from Tekken Tag Tournament is accurate in that it has been used many times in Japanese media, but the fact that, as you pointed out, Seifer didn't move is pretty significant. I mean, what could he possibly have done? What kind of finishing blow could he possibly have dealt that didn't involve any motion on his part? There was no reason for him to return to that exact same position after the attack, unless he wanted to psyche Squall and co. out with his "Magical Invisible Sword Strike" or something like that.

Well, it's obvious Seifer did something. If we just humor the thought Odin charged and killed himself, he'd be impaled, not bisected from top-to-bottom.

That's really what confuses me the most. Squall and co. are, physically speaking, not that much higher than "peak human" in terms of their own capabilities. Seifer was always portrayed the same way. In fact, he was weak enough for Squall to defeat in one-on-one combat not too long ago. I don't see how he could've suddenly upgraded to DBZ-level strength in such a short amount of time. What's more, I don't see how Squall and co. could've beaten such an opponent.

They also beat Ultimecia. That's far more insane than beating someone with DBZ strength.

I suppose it's reasonable to assume that Seifer had just developed his own version of Zantetsuken, but it would have to have been slow enough for Squall and co. to evade in the first place. Seifer didn't seem like he had any intention to hold back, after all.

Possibly but he never tried it on them. Remember, if he kills Odin, it's Gilgamesh who finishes him off, not the party. Perhaps the technique was too much for the party kinda likw how Trance Kuja holds off the ENTIRE fight with the party before using Ultima.

Also, did you see my edit in my last post?

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Logical error in Final Fantasy is not too new, though.
Best answer I got sadly.

Yeah, you've got me there...It is called Final Fantasy, after all. Still, most things in the series make some sort of logical sense or can at least be explained in some way. What Seifer does just...doesn't make sense. He stands still and cleaves Odin in half with a sword that's nowhere near as large as Odin himself is...Well, I guess it's about as logical as Cloud and co. beating the WEAPONS using swords and bullets that are about 1/10000th their size.

Well, it's obvious Seifer did something. If we just humor the thought Odin charged and killed himself, he'd be impaled, not bisected from top-to-bottom.

Yeah, he must've done something, I just don't see what he could possibly have done. He was in the exact same position before and after the attack. As amusing as the idea of Odin impaling himself on Seifer's Gunblade is, you're correct in saying that he wouldn't have been bisected. I mean, I guess he could've...parried Odin's Zantetsuken in a way that made it cut him in half? No, now I'm just grasping at straws...

They also beat Ultimecia. That's far more insane than beating someone with DBZ strength.

Yeah, but they were fated to defeat Ultimecia. Regardless of how much more powerful than them she was, the party was going to emerge victorious in that battle. However, they weren't fated to defeat Seifer or anyone other than Ultimecia, really. The first battle against Edea proved that they could still lose a battle if their opponent was superior to them. Fate didn't make it so that they went undefeated until they fought Ultimecia, it just kept them alive.

Possibly but he never tried it on them. Remember, if he kills Odin, it's Gilgamesh who finishes him off, not the party. Perhaps the technique was too much for the party kinda likw how Trance Kuja holds off the ENTIRE fight with the party before using Ultima.

Yeah, but Kuja was messing around with them (or at least he purposefully avoided using Ultima). The thing is, if Seifer had an attack that would instantly annihilate the party, I don't think he would've hesitated to use it. It couldn't have been "too much for them," because getting hit once with a one-hit-kill attack results in...well...getting killed. What's more, the party didn't appear at all fatigued after the battle. If Seifer had used a version of Zantetsuken on them, don't you think they at least would've appeared somewhat winded? It just doesn't seem logical to assume that Seifer had a one-hit-kill move at his disposal, yet he refused to use it against Squall.

Also, did you see my edit in my last post?

Yeah, it's true that the kanji characters are the same as the ones that appear during Odin's animation, but don't those characters say "Zantetsuken" themselves? That's what I always thought, anyway.

 

[Nikkolas]

Yeah, you've got me there...It is called Final Fantasy, after all. Still, most things in the series make some sort of logical sense or can at least be explained in some way. What Seifer does just...doesn't make sense. He stands still and cleaves Odin in half with a sword that's nowhere near as large as Odin himself is...Well, I guess it's about as logical as Cloud and co. beating the WEAPONS using swords and bullets that are about 1/10000th their size.

Is Odin really that big?
Plus, did Seifer cut Odin's horse in half too...? I can't tell.

Yeah, he must've done something, I just don't see what he could possibly have done. He was in the exact same position before and after the attack. As amusing as the idea of Odin impaling himself on Seifer's Gunblade is, you're correct in saying that he wouldn't have been bisected. I mean, I guess he could've...parried Odin's Zantetsuken in a way that made it cut him in half? No, now I'm just grasping at straws...

Well, I'm still subsribing to my idea of the "fatal strike" clash cliche. Seifer was quicker on the draw with his blade.
Plus it looks like his sword changed position when the kenji appear.

Yeah, but they were fated to defeat Ultimecia. Regardless of how much more powerful than them she was, the party was going to emerge victorious in that battle. However, they weren't fated to defeat Seifer or anyone other than Ultimecia, really. The first battle against Edea proved that they could still lose a battle if their opponent was superior to them. Fate didn't make it so that they went undefeated until they fought Ultimecia, it just kept them alive.

Point.

The thing is, if Seifer had an attack that would instantly annihilate the party, I don't think he would've hesitated to use it. It couldn't have been "too much for them," because getting hit once with a one-hit-kill attack results in...well...getting killed. What's more, the party didn't appear at all fatigued after the battle. If Seifer had used a version of Zantetsuken on them, don't you think they at least would've appeared somewhat winded? It just doesn't seem logical to assume that Seifer had a one-hit-kill move at his disposal, yet he refused to use it against Squall.

Well we know he never did use the move on them so they don't have to appear wounded from something they never got hit with.
As for why he never used it, same reason kuja never used Ultima. You're on a real stretch saying Kuja was playing around. He said right before the battle "time to die, everyone!" and he was in a state of absolute nihilism after what happened on Terra. THere's nothing to suggest he was playing around anymore than Seifer. Both Seifer and Kuja seemed deadly serious.

Speaking of attacks that would own the party but never were used, what about Edea's "freeze" spell? She held the whole party at her mercy but miraculously never used this ownage spell again.

Yeah, it's true that the kanji characters are the same as the ones that appear during Odin's animation, but don't those characters say "Zantetsuken" themselves? That's what I always thought, anyway.

斬鉄剣 = Zantetsuken "cutting iron sword."

The extra kenji for when Seifer kills Odin

返し = 'return" or "reverse."

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Is Odin really that big?
Plus, did Seifer cut Odin's horse in half too...? I can't tell.

Nope. That was an exaggeration.

Well, I'm still subsribing to my idea of the "fatal strike" clash cliche. Seifer was quicker on the draw with his blade.
Plus it looks like his sword changed position when the kenji appear.

True...I mean, we don't know how much time passed when the screen flashed white. For all we know, a few seconds could've lapsed during which Seifer simply proved himself quicker to the draw. Come to think of it, upon watching the video again, I've realized that a fairly significant portion of time passes when the screen flashes. I suppose Seifer could potentially have done something during that time, but I'm not sure what. I mean, the fact remains that, though he had enough time to act, his position didn't change at all during the "attack" itself.

Well we know he never did use the move on them so they don't have to appear wounded from something they never got hit with.
As for why he never used it, same reason kuja never used Ultima. You're on a real stretch saying Kuja was playing around. He said right before the battle "time to die, everyone!" and he was in a state of absolute nihilism after what happened on Terra. THere's nothing to suggest he was playing around anymore than Seifer. Both Seifer and Kuja seemed deadly serious.

I don't mean that Kuja was fooling around in the same way that, say, Sephiroth would fool around. Kuja was definitely taking the fight seriously. However, he did "hold back" in the sense that he didn't use Ultima right away. Instead, he waited until he was on his last leg and, himself, on the verge of death. If he really wanted everyone to die as soon as possible, I think he could've just used Ultima right off the bat. He was definitely using his most powerful attacks (except, of course, Ultima) to their greatest potential, but the fact remains that he waited until the end of the fight to pull out the really big guns.

Speaking of attacks that would own the party but never were used, what about Edea's "freeze" spell? She held the whole party at her mercy but miraculously never used this ownage spell again.

I don't know...I like to think that it was one of those "They broke free with their sheer determination" things that you see all the time in Shounen anime. By Anime Logic, stuff like telekinesis and Stop Spells can be countered simply by out-willing the caster. It's demonstrated in good Shounen manga like Rurouni Kenshin as well as terrible Shounen manga like Naruto. As an alternative explanation, perhaps the fact that the party, themselves, use Magic offered them some sort of protection against Edea's Stop Spell. Maybe their GF's had something to do with it.

斬鉄剣 = Zantetsuken "cutting iron sword."

The extra kenji for when Seifer kills Odin

返し = 'return" or "reverse."

So, basically, "Zantetsuken" itself translates to "cutting iron sword." It's the same thing, really.

 

[Nikkolas]

I don't mean that Kuja was fooling around in the same way that, say, Sephiroth would fool around. Kuja was definitely taking the fight seriously. However, he did "hold back" in the sense that he didn't use Ultima right away. Instead, he waited until he was on his last leg and, himself, on the verge of death. If he really wanted everyone to die as soon as possible, I think he could've just used Ultima right off the bat. He was definitely using his most powerful attacks (except, of course, Ultima) to their greatest potential, but the fact remains that he waited until the end of the fight to pull out the really big guns.

And maybe Seifer planned on using his Zantetsuken Reverse on Squall but never got the chance due to Gilgamesh showing up?

So, basically, "Zantetsuken" itself translates to "cutting iron sword." It's the same thing, really.

Yeah. But my original point was that calling what Seifer did to Odin the "Zantetsuken Reverse", as in some made up technique, is simply fan speculation. It can easily be interpretted as Seifer just cut Odin up and they put the keni up as always with Odin but added the "reverse" symbols because it was Odin who got sliced and diced, instead of the enemy.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Now that we've discussed this over MSN, Nik, I think you were about right. Seifer probably just used a particularly strong regular attack, but he used it before Odin could use Zantetsuken. I mean, as far as we can tell, a significant amount of time passed between Odin's death and Gilgamesh's arrival, so I really don't think that Seifer just didn't have the chance to use this "one-hit-kill" technique on Squall and co. To be honest with you, Seifer, at that point, seemed like he was going for the kill at all costs. If he had a technique that could instantly kill his opponents, he would've used it as soon as possible. He wouldn't have waited for around ten minutes before using it.

Besides, getting hit with a sword in gameplay and in the storyline are, as we said on AIM, two totally different things. Whereas a basic sword slash in gameplay will cause around 4000-5000 damage at the most, getting slashed across the chest in the storyline will pretty much always result in death. So I think that the most likely explanation for Odin's death is that Seifer, as you put it, simply hit Odin with his Gunblade before Odin could hit him. As for why he was bisected from top to bottom...err...We could just write that off as a plothole. I really don't see how Seifer could, realistically, slice something of Odin's size in half with his Gunblade regardless of how fast or strong he was. The fact remains, Odin was physically larger than the Gunblade, so one attack couldn't possibly have cleaved him in two. It was probably just exaggerated for gameplay purposes.

 

[Ruud Love]

First impressions are everything (why not). Seifer for me.

-Sir Balthier
​

 

[Nikkolas]

Now that we've discussed this over MSN, Nik, I think you were about right. Seifer probably just used a particularly strong regular attack, but he used it before Odin could use Zantetsuken. I mean, as far as we can tell, a significant amount of time passed between Odin's death and Gilgamesh's arrival, so I really don't think that Seifer just didn't have the chance to use this "one-hit-kill" technique on Squall and co. To be honest with you, Seifer, at that point, seemed like he was going for the kill at all costs. If he had a technique that could instantly kill his opponents, he would've used it as soon as possible. He wouldn't have waited for around ten minutes before using it.

Besides, getting hit with a sword in gameplay and in the storyline are, as we said on AIM, two totally different things. Whereas a basic sword slash in gameplay will cause around 4000-5000 damage at the most, getting slashed across the chest in the storyline will pretty much always result in death. So I think that the most likely explanation for Odin's death is that Seifer, as you put it, simply hit Odin with his Gunblade before Odin could hit him. As for why he was bisected from top to bottom...err...We could just write that off as a plothole. I really don't see how Seifer could, realistically, slice something of Odin's size in half with his Gunblade regardless of how fast or strong he was. The fact remains, Odin was physically larger than the Gunblade, so one attack couldn't possibly have cleaved him in two. It was probably just exaggerated for gameplay purposes.

That's fair enough. But now I also have another feat I think puts Seifer above Squall: Seifer survived a hit from Gilgamesh and the Zantetsuken. Notice that Gilgamesh never actually hits someone with any of his swords like Odin did. He just picks it up, waves it, and the energy/wind from it does the killing. When he confronted Seifer, he did an especially powerful version of the insta-kill Zantetsuken strike that only put Seifer down for lik ea minute at most. After that minute, Seifer literally sprang up in one quick movement and was running around.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Well...I chalk that up to the fact that Gilgamesh doesn't actually make contact with his sword or strike Seifer in any way that would, storyline-wise, kill him without fail. For example, getting cleaved in half by a giant sword would kill someone regardless of how tough they are. However, getting blown away by a massively powerful gust of wind is, as far as the storyline is concerned, perfectly survivable so long as you have the appropriate determination. Obviously, Gilgamesh's attack is an insta-kill move gameplay-wise, but if a particularly strong creature got hit with it in the storyline, I think that they could survive quite easily.

Clearly, Seifer has incredible determination, but again, a lot of that could be attributed to the fact that he has nothing left to cling to except for his sorceress. Considering he'd just lost everything to Squall and his friends, and was currently in the process of fighting tooth and nail to protect his last remaining shred of hope, I don't think he's going to go down quite as easily. Once again, I consider that the result of an adrenaline rush of sorts on Seifer's part. His brain knows that he his choices are now limited to "fight," "run," or "die." He knew that he couldn't overpower Squall and co., but he manages to summon the determination to get back on his feet and run. It was, quite literally, a "fight or flight" instinct. At first, Seifer chose to fight, but once that proved to be a terrible decision, he made a break for it.

 

[Nikkolas]

Well he had no reason to stay there and fight Squall. He was there to get Rinoa to Adel and Rinoa had walked away.

Also, from a storyline perspective, Gilgamesh never used his attack on another character so it be hard to compare unless we take into consideration the game mechanics.

 

[The_Oathkeeper]

Does Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken-attack work on bosses? If it doesn't, then that might explain why Seifer survived. I mean, I don't think Odin could appear in boss battles at all, which could mean that he just wasn't strong enough to take out those bosses in one hit. That might also explain why Seifer was able to counter Zantetsuken so easily; because Odin really isn't all that powerful from a storyline perspective. I know that Squall and co. could be killed by Zantetsuken, but that's not an unavoidable occurance. I just seriously doubt that Odin was, storyline-wise, more powerful than the likes of Edea or Bahamut, both of whom Squall and co. defeated (I know Bahamut was just a sidequest, but bear with me here. If we're assuming that Squall and co. did the Odin Sidequest, I think we can assume they did the Bahamut sidequest).

Gilgamesh, however, is a bit different in that he can appear during boss battles. Now, I can't say that I've ever actually done the Odin sidequest. I think I only played through FFVIII twice, anyway, and both of those times I was just trying to get through at as low a level as possible. So I really don't know the specifics of Gilgamesh's gameplay mechanics. If he can use Zantetsuken to insta-kill bosses, then...that's even more confusing, to be honest with you, because it means he has the potential to instantly wipe out the likes of Ultimecia. If he can't use his Zantetsuken on bosses, then I think that might explain why Seifer was able to survive; he was just stronger than the random monsters you find.

 

[Nikkolas]

Does Gilgamesh's Zantetsuken-attack work on bosses? If it doesn't, then that might explain why Seifer survived.

Yep, it works on bosses. I've heard it defeated Omega Weapon if it connects.

I mean, I don't think Odin could appear in boss battles at all, which could mean that he just wasn't strong enough to take out those bosses in one hit. That might also explain why Seifer was able to counter Zantetsuken so easily; because Odin really isn't all that powerful from a storyline perspective.

Well, the only reason the heroes even beat Odin is because he let them. Unlike every other boss in the game, he doesn't so much as poke them with his horns or whatever. But we see quite clearly when the time runs out why that is - if he did attack them, they all die instantly.

I mean, I don't think Odin could appear in boss battles at all, which could mean that he just wasn't strong enough to take out those bosses in one hit. That might also explain why Seifer was able to counter Zantetsuken so easily; because Odin really isn't all that powerful from a storyline perspective.

What did Edea do that hints she's stronger than Odin? I mean, end of Disk 1 Squall survived her Limit Break. But he can't survive Zantetsuken.

Plus the Zantetsuken cut a hole in reality just by flying out of Odin's hands...what do you think actually getting cut by that thing would do to someone?

As for Bahamut, it's possible that he's stronger than Odin. The fact remains Bahamut attacks the party while Odin just kinda plays with them.

. So I really don't know the specifics of Gilgamesh's gameplay mechanics. If he can use Zantetsuken to insta-kill bosses, then...that's even more confusing, to be honest with you, because it means he has the potential to instantly wipe out the likes of Ultimecia. If he can't use his Zantetsuken on bosses, then I think that might explain why Seifer was able to survive; he was just stronger than the random monsters you find.

I can't personally testify but I've heard on a few forums about how Gilgamesh, if he connects, can kill bosses instantly with Zantetsuken.
I heard he can't beat Ultimecia's final form though.

Anyway, new reveal....

From the official guide to FFVIII, for the first boss fight with just Seifer and Squall.

Seifer wasn't training while Squall was.