i enjoyed this game precisely because i didn't expect it to sweep me off my feet and make me a sandwich while giving me a scalp rub all at once. if you hold the FF series to that high of a pedigree then you will be disappointed more than once. it's an RPG franchise just like any other
Why FFXIII is a GOOD game
- Thread starter strifehart
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I agree with Tmoo. Final Fantasys like FFVII, FFVIII or FFX are placed rather highly while FFXIII seems to be a 'disappointment' to everyone else. If I had never played a Final Fantasy game before, I would have still found it a good game and played again in future. Each game in the series is different to me and I treat it the same as any new game I may buy without knowing what is ahead for me. No high hopes, just curiousity. I didn't buy it for it's title or graphics - the story appealed to me as well as the characters involved.
strifehart
Blue Mage
DuesExLamina, I had the desire to finish the extra stuff from the rewards the provided. The skins for the PS3. I'm surprised that any hardcore gamer could pass up 'free' rewards like that.
Aerith brings up an awesome point. Every Final Fantasy game is unique. It's a staple of the series. Why do you think they try to reinvent their systems for each installment? Any why each one has a new story that has nothing to do with its predecessors? It's because that's the nature of series. So you can't play a FF game expecting to get the exact experience you had with FFVII or FFVIII. That's just plain unreasonable. It's like playing Gran Turismo and being pissed that there's no leveling or dungeons. OK, maybe that's a bit extreme, I'm not trolling I promise. But you get my point.
Aerith brings up an awesome point. Every Final Fantasy game is unique. It's a staple of the series. Why do you think they try to reinvent their systems for each installment? Any why each one has a new story that has nothing to do with its predecessors? It's because that's the nature of series. So you can't play a FF game expecting to get the exact experience you had with FFVII or FFVIII. That's just plain unreasonable. It's like playing Gran Turismo and being pissed that there's no leveling or dungeons. OK, maybe that's a bit extreme, I'm not trolling I promise. But you get my point.
Great post if I understand correctly:
1). FFXIII is a good game.
2). Most FF games are great.
3). So, FFXIII is a disappointing FF game.
Sorry others, but I have to agree with this.
DeusExLumina
Dragoon
I'd never refer to myself as a hardcore gamer. I don't play games to be rewarded, or to get things from the game. I play for enjoyment, just like I wouldn't expect a great movie or book to give me anything except a good time. I'm by no means a casual gamer *shudder*, but I'm not on the level of most "hardcore" gamers.
I played it on the 360 anyway.
Mr. Gorilla
Ex-Soldier
Heavily disagree with this.
The gameplay was terrible; it could've been something great, if a little more time and effort was put in to it, but what was released is simply unacceptable. Abilities/skills have little variation and the entire thing doesn't allow for any strategic depth; battles simply consist of "uh oh my main's dying paradigm shift lol." Very mediocre stuff.
The plot started strong, but it was ruined by a fair number of plotholes and repetitive plot points (We get it, Snow, you want to be "durr hurr the hero," and yeah, Hope, your mom died; we don't need it shoved in our faces constantly).
The character development was absolute crap. The only character with any real depth was Sazh; the rest seemed like underdeveloped stock characters from some random anime shit.
The music was horribly repetitive; most FFs do have a recurrent "main melody," but fuck, it was the whole soundtrack this time around. Not to mention the "lol pop" sound was disappointing.
The gameplay was terrible; it could've been something great, if a little more time and effort was put in to it, but what was released is simply unacceptable. Abilities/skills have little variation and the entire thing doesn't allow for any strategic depth; battles simply consist of "uh oh my main's dying paradigm shift lol." Very mediocre stuff.
The plot started strong, but it was ruined by a fair number of plotholes and repetitive plot points (We get it, Snow, you want to be "durr hurr the hero," and yeah, Hope, your mom died; we don't need it shoved in our faces constantly).
The character development was absolute crap. The only character with any real depth was Sazh; the rest seemed like underdeveloped stock characters from some random anime shit.
The music was horribly repetitive; most FFs do have a recurrent "main melody," but fuck, it was the whole soundtrack this time around. Not to mention the "lol pop" sound was disappointing.
I've platinumed it, and yes, yes and yes. At least 4 of my paradigms were the same from chapter 11 onwards, it didn't take a guide to work out the paradigm system and the game was arguably one of the easiest games I've played. Certainly the easiest Final Fantasy title to date; it was just button mashing from pretty much start to finish.
I dunno...I don't agree with this. Hope didn't really shove the fact his mom died in the gamers' faces me thinks. If anything, he was pretty subtle with his feelings over his mom's death-that was a lot of what made up his pseudo murder plot he had going against Snow too
And again, here's a teenage boy who was living a perfectly normal Cocoon life, albeit with some tension with his father, so his mom's death was all the more traumatic. I can't NOT sympathize, you know?
strifehart
Blue Mage
If you don't like (or at least can tolerate) the anime style, then I don't think this series is for you. Watch an anime and tell me the themes/styles aren't reflected in nearly all FF games starting from FFI. You can't. If you don't like it, play western rpgs like Fallout or Oblivion or Mass Effect (which is a good game).
Mr. Gorilla
Ex-Soldier
I dunno...I don't agree with this. Hope didn't really shove the fact his mom died in the gamers' faces me thinks. If anything, he was pretty subtle with his feelings over his mom's death-that was a lot of what made up his pseudo murder plot he had going against Snow too
And again, here's a teenage boy who was living a perfectly normal Cocoon life, albeit with some tension with his father, so his mom's death was all the more traumatic. I can't NOT sympathize, you know?
Yes, it's realistic for a teenage boy to be all upset about it and shit, and I don't mind the story touching upon it. The thing is, though, is that realism is often the exact opposite of quality in story-telling; especially for multiple-hour epics such as Final Fantasy. Touching upon death/loss of innocence is a good plot point, and can add emotional depth, but not when it's constantly repeated and rehashed (Because shoving it in someone's face just gets old).
Hope didn't shove it in the gamers' faces, but the game sure did; the first half of the game pretty much revolved around that "I'm so depressed I wanna kill Snow" subplot. At least for every scene involving Hope, making him a one-note character.
For contrast/comparison, FFVII featured the death of Aeris, and the game let us know that Cloud wasn't happy about it. Thing is, though, it didn't patronizingly shove that fact in our face throughout the remainder of the game; it was brought up a few times to remind us that Cloud was unhappy, but Cloud wasn't whining about it every step of the way.
That's an example as to how emotional/traumatic events are handled well in long, stretching plots, and it's within the same series as FFXIII. Let us know that that the charater is unhappy, but don't let it take up the entire screen time. We can let Cloud whine behind the scenes.
strifehart said:
I think you completely missed the point. I don't dislike FFXIII for being anime-influenced; I dislike it for being crappy anime-influenced.
There's anime that I like, such as Cowboy Bebop and (Most of) Hayao Miyazaki's stuff. That stuff is very good, and you know why? They're not caught up with the fact that they're anime. They don't sacrifice quality story-telling and character development to appease Otaku "umg animu" fanwhores.
And that was generally what FF was like pre-FFXIII; sure, there were some archetypes here and there, and the visual style was anime-influenced, but at least FF had its own identity. And even if they did borrow alot from anime (All works are derivative in one way or another), at least they borrowed from the good shit (Like FFVII's Neon Genesis Evangelion influences). Earlier FF titles weren't caught up with being "as anime as possible," and the series speaks for itself: if you can't see the difference in mood/atmosphere between games like FFIV, FFVI, FFVII (The difference in feel between the original FFVII and its Compilation is also another great example), FFIX and games like FFXIII, you're blind. Now FF seems like it's just trying emulate Saturday morning action shit like One Piece or Naruto, with some melodrama mixed in to fake emotional depth.
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Bloodred
Staring at an endless sky
I personally loved the game. I think there could have been much more to the battle system other then tapping X, it was like a hack N slash made simple. The story was spot on in my opinion, maybe there were a few one liners that I thought were cheesy and could have been avoided but I could look past them. Gran Pulse is what the rest of the game should have been to me, free roam. Great scenery, big scary monsters and plenty of side missions to do. The graphics were top notch, I couldn't fault them in any way. To be honest the music didn't stick with me as with previous titles in the series and I was quite disappointed.
I have to agree with Aerith, if I had never played a Final Fantasy before I would have thought this was an outstanding game, but based on the fact I have I found it fun.. just fun, fun enough to see it through till the end. I do however think this game deserves more credit then it seems to be getting.
I have to agree with Aerith, if I had never played a Final Fantasy before I would have thought this was an outstanding game, but based on the fact I have I found it fun.. just fun, fun enough to see it through till the end. I do however think this game deserves more credit then it seems to be getting.
@Mr. Gorilla I'd have to kinda disagree with this....Again I don't think Hope or the game shoved it in the gamers face. And comparing his mothers death to Aerith's is entirely different. Hope is a weak little boy and Cloud is an EX-soldier (
well he's not really but he acts and is as strong as one.
But I'd like to bring up another thing here and that is.....Hope just thought Fuck it,by the time they reached his house in Palumpolum. He went from a vengful monster back to a little weakling,after forgiving Snow.I did expect something even bigger to happen,but Hope seemed to not care when forgiving him and his father just had a little cry and got over it.
So after all Snow was forgiven thats all,which seemed like a complete waste of time watching all the cutscenes leading up to this big moment when we was meant to see Hope kill Snow,which never happened (unfortunately).
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Bloodred
Staring at an endless sky
So you would have liked to see snow killed off? It would have add to the story with a decent twist I'll admit. I agree though, it seemed like a big build up that ended almost instantly with forgiveness, I believe Square Enix could have kept the hate Hope had for Snow and ended it in a much better way than they did. When Hope had the knife out to Snow I was like yes maybe Snow will now realize how Hope feels and understand what has gone on from his point of view, but no they fell and Snow being Snow played the hero and shielded Hope.
Please Square Enix, don't build up great tension between 2 characters and end it so abruptly.
Please Square Enix, don't build up great tension between 2 characters and end it so abruptly.
Mr. Gorilla
Ex-Soldier
I know that; I'm not talking about whether or not Hope should be less emotional, though. I'm talking about how the narrative is structured and how much screen time it gets.
For all I know, Cloud could have been crying his eyes out when off-screen; the game didn't show us that, though, because we already knew enough about how Cloud felt.
I honestly believe the amount of screen time Hope's subplot got could have been halved and we would've known the same amount about him.
@Bloodred Well seriously talking about it......It probably could of been a big twist,but unlike Aerith's death I doubt he wouldve been missed. He wasnt a hero,he's not that strong in battle,and most of all people hated him.
If he died the story wouldve been more focused on saving the world than saving Serah.....I think as the game went on,when Lightning percieved the falcie's true intents she was more focused on protecting Orphan than Serah. However this had no effect on Snow.....it was all Serah,Serah, Serah for him.
@Mr. Gorilla yeah maybe so,but that again is back to the sudden end of this subplot......If Hope was to kill Snow, I think the cutscenes couldve been justified. As in we really did see Hope develop from a weakling to a strong-willed individual, but we never got that. So all that chit-chat between him and Lightning was for nothing at the end.
If he died the story wouldve been more focused on saving the world than saving Serah.....I think as the game went on,when Lightning percieved the falcie's true intents she was more focused on protecting Orphan than Serah. However this had no effect on Snow.....it was all Serah,Serah, Serah for him.
@Mr. Gorilla yeah maybe so,but that again is back to the sudden end of this subplot......If Hope was to kill Snow, I think the cutscenes couldve been justified. As in we really did see Hope develop from a weakling to a strong-willed individual, but we never got that. So all that chit-chat between him and Lightning was for nothing at the end.
Altair
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.
I agree with you on some points but on others not. I do agree that this game had some of the best music in the series. The main battle theme did seem to get your blood pumping a bit. And if you summoned Odin at the right time during the boss theme, it is epic and gives you goosebumps.
There have been allot of critisims about the new battle system. About how you can just select auto battle and let the game play itself. I really Don't like that system, but I do realize that for us old FF cronies you can still manually imput commands. I think the only time I ever used autobattle is during the Bart fights, when there was so much other shit to concentrate on.
As far as charecter development I didn't see much of it. Hope did develop a bit. But that was at the beginning. And everyone else developed like a slingshot in chapter 11/12. This made it not really interesting.
I do agree that while a bit linear, it was a good story. I just wish it could have been less linear. For example FFX had so many twists and turns, and they were so dramatic you looked around searching for the person who smacked you in the face. Linearity is what ruins a FF game in my opinion.
I do want to throw in a little bit about some of the monsters. Like vampires for example. Very easy to beat but they take forever because of thier high hp. This was annoying, especially when you had to fight four hundred thousand of the damned things to get to the end of Oerba.
There have been allot of critisims about the new battle system. About how you can just select auto battle and let the game play itself. I really Don't like that system, but I do realize that for us old FF cronies you can still manually imput commands. I think the only time I ever used autobattle is during the Bart fights, when there was so much other shit to concentrate on.
As far as charecter development I didn't see much of it. Hope did develop a bit. But that was at the beginning. And everyone else developed like a slingshot in chapter 11/12. This made it not really interesting.
I do agree that while a bit linear, it was a good story. I just wish it could have been less linear. For example FFX had so many twists and turns, and they were so dramatic you looked around searching for the person who smacked you in the face. Linearity is what ruins a FF game in my opinion.
I do want to throw in a little bit about some of the monsters. Like vampires for example. Very easy to beat but they take forever because of thier high hp. This was annoying, especially when you had to fight four hundred thousand of the damned things to get to the end of Oerba.
Not gonna be a long post.
Oh, you did not just say that.
I'm sorry, what? Since when is FFXIII an anime-influenced game? God, when I went to Metacritic.com, it said that, and I can quote:
Well, think of it this way, if FFXIII was influenced by anime, what was anime influenced by? That's right, us, the people. For instance, take Hope (<3) and his reactions. That's basically what happens when
Blah, skip.
At the bit before this, remember that: 1. every game in the franchise is a unique game; 2. SE are just trying to appeal people of these times. The times they are a-changing.
Which brings me onto my next point.
ONE PIECE IS NOT 'SATURDAY MORNING SHIT', NOR IS IT 'SOME MELODRAMA YADA YADA YADA.'
I am a devoted fan. You can't say I'm biased; I have been there since Ch./Ep. 1. And boy, it's full of action, depth and emotions.
Take Zoro, who was so saddened by his loss which made him want to achieve his dream even more. Take Robin, once Baroque Works, on the run, then in Enies Lobby, we see the true colours. The fillers just expand the characters' depth, and think of how much action there is throughout. God, there are tonnes of deaths, especially- no. But you can empathise it throught the character development, similar to FFXIII's.
And it's these kinds of anime which influenced FFXIII - if any at all, not saying that Cowboy Bebop didn't, which I never read, so this is
/my opinion
Oh, you did not just say that.
I'm sorry, what? Since when is FFXIII an anime-influenced game? God, when I went to Metacritic.com, it said that, and I can quote:
Well, think of it this way, if FFXIII was influenced by anime, what was anime influenced by? That's right, us, the people. For instance, take Hope (<3) and his reactions. That's basically what happens when
someone close to you dies.
Blah, skip.
At the bit before this, remember that: 1. every game in the franchise is a unique game; 2. SE are just trying to appeal people of these times. The times they are a-changing.
Which brings me onto my next point.
ONE PIECE IS NOT 'SATURDAY MORNING SHIT', NOR IS IT 'SOME MELODRAMA YADA YADA YADA.'
I am a devoted fan. You can't say I'm biased; I have been there since Ch./Ep. 1. And boy, it's full of action, depth and emotions.
Take Zoro, who was so saddened by his loss which made him want to achieve his dream even more. Take Robin, once Baroque Works, on the run, then in Enies Lobby, we see the true colours. The fillers just expand the characters' depth, and think of how much action there is throughout. God, there are tonnes of deaths, especially- no. But you can empathise it throught the character development, similar to FFXIII's.
And it's these kinds of anime which influenced FFXIII - if any at all, not saying that Cowboy Bebop didn't, which I never read, so this is
/my opinion
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Mr. Gorilla
Ex-Soldier
Well, firstly, I'm confused; what relevance does that Metacritic quote hold?
Secondly, why does what Metacritic says matter? This is about your own opinions, my own opinions, and everyone else's in this thread.
Doesn't necessarily justify something's quality.
Insane Clown Posse was "influenced by the people," because people are buying their music and keeping them in business. Doesn't change the fact that they're idiots and their music is terrible.
Again, there is a difference between good anime and bad anime; it would've been better for FFXIII to look to something like Cowboy Bebop than something generic like InuYasha.
I've already addressed this. Hope was portrayed realistically, but note that no matter how realistic it is, if it isn't portrayed in a way that is beneficial to the story, then it's flawed.
Let's say there's a movie about a man whose wife was recently killed. Would you enjoy it if it was just him sitting around in his bedroom in depression for an hour, with no actual plot development?
Of course.
By that logic, it would be alright if the next Final Fantasy game focused on one of Justin Bieber's concert tours with him as the protagonist (After all, SE would be trying to appeal the people of these times and the times are a-changing).
Come to think of it, S-E may very well go in that direction.
Liking a series from the start and sticking with it for years, if anything, implies bias.
All well and good, but I can assure you, there are much better cartoons and anime out there that have touched upon similar issues and have done far better jobs at it, with far better character development and narrative depth.
^ I'm a Westerner, and it's not really the linearity that's the problem for me (I love FFX, and it's linear). I just think the game sucks. Well, sucks in comparison to other FF titles. Not really a bad game, it just had a lot to live up to, and ended up being pretty disappointing.