FFXIII-2 Worst FF yet.

[Sheechiibii]

Ok screechiibii. You basically tried to defend xiii-2 by using a mess of litttle bits of positive to make up for the bigger ones.
Characters: i like them because their unique appearance (which any character will have in FF) And unique weapons. Then you defend their personalities such as nnoel being kind hearted and not a cry baby but to me, that just dullens the character. Its why people hate zack for not really being that unique. Noel has no balance of good/bad qualities hes not that interesting and for him to be such a relevantt character? The last human being always throws me off. If it wsnone of the last, then it would sound reasonable. Overall he does have bad qualities, like Snow he also tries to be the hero in everything.

Time travel was included in the first final fantasy however it made sense in the first kne, this one just made u a story based on it but not really being relevant.

The setting of it is fantasy like and sc fi like just like its predessessor, however we still dont have a fricken clue what makes this a final fantasy xiii title. The series never holds balance and the jump between xiii and xiii-2 throws us off even more to believe any ff fan can like it.

I didn't use a mess of little bits - the reason I have certain things there and not others is because I was replying directly to the op, as those were the opinions he asked to be challenged on. There are many other reasons why I liked the game other than the ones I stated above. I never said I liked the characters because of their weapons or appearances, I simply refuted the opinions in the op, who stated their weapons were all the same and that they didn't look unique. I mentioned not being a crybaby because, again, it was a point made in the op.

How can a story based around time travel have time travel be irrelevant? All the time travel in the story was relevant to the plot, so I'm not sure what you mean by that, if you could explain I'd be happy to hear what you mean. I only mentioned games VII and above because I haven't played the ones before so couldn't comment on them. I honestly don't care about the jump from XIII to XIII-2 because I hate XIII. The fact that XIII-2 was so completely different was welcome for me. I do think that this title could have easily been an entirely new game in itself, and perhaps the plot even started out that way, but obviously they decided to link it to XIII and until the series (Returns) is finished we can't really say how well it all goes together because it isn't complete yet. I don't think that detracts from this game itself anyway, it may detract from the XIII franchise but as I said, I could care less. I will never touch XIII again and as far as I'm concerned XIII-2 is a game that's easily good enough to stand on its own.

I disagree about Noel wanting to be the hero. If he hadn't lived the life he had he wouldn't have wanted to be the one to save the world, he was the last human left, the only one who could do anything to change the fate of the world. It wasn't wanting to be a hero that made him go on the quest, it was wanting a life, not wanting everyone else in the world to die off. If he wanted to be a hero he would have killed Caius no problem from the beginning, to gain the power and be the hero, but he didn't want that, he didn't want to be a powerful hero, even in the end he just wanted a world where he wasn't alone. He wanted to protect the people he cared about, but who doesn't, so did Serah, so did Hope, so did Allyssa. When you care about someone you want them to be safe, that's not trying to be a hero. He's an incredibly relatable character imo which may be what makes him such a good one to me. All the way through the story I found myself wondering at how different he was to the usual heroes of FF, who tend to be brash and heroic. Noel is certainly more like a normal boy placed in incredible circumstances which makes his story all the more interesting to me.

 

[Razberry Knight]

The term hero inwas going for is the simplistic shallow "good guy"

The idea of time travel was unnecessary. The story couldbe been completely differemt.

I have limited time to talk.

 

[Lirael]

The term hero inwas going for is the simplistic shallow "good guy"

The idea of time travel was unnecessary. The story couldbe been completely differemt.

I have limited time to talk.

Time travel had to happen in this story...

Story spoilers!

Spoiler

The story revolves around Caius and Yeul; Yeul dies because she sees changes in the timeline, which ripple up and down when things change or are changed. The reason Lightning is taken by Etro relates to Caius and his desire to destroy the world. He wants to save Yeul, to end her suffering, but this can only be achieved by stopping time itself. When Etro takes Lightning, she causes another major change and thus a major shift in the timeline. This probably kills Yeul at some point, and it makes the timeline unstable. Serah and Noel have to fix it. Lightning chooses Noel to work with Serah, possibly because he knows Caius and Yeul. Additionally, he knows what lies in the future and wants and needs to save the future.

Sheechiibii Am I forgetting anything? I haven't played the main story of XIII-2 since the week of release 'cause I completed it within three days.

Every story that has ever been told could have been completely different!

 

[Sheechiibii]

The term hero inwas going for is the simplistic shallow "good guy"

The idea of time travel was unnecessary. The story couldbe been completely differemt.

I have limited time to talk.

Ah, because you compared him with Snow I thought you meant that he tried to do everything himself and tried to be the one who is better than everyone else. That kind of hero. Well, it's all well and good to criticise Noel for being a good guy, but can you tell me a lead FF character who isn't good? Nobody wants to play as someone who is horrible, I certainly wouldn't want to anyway. And he has flaws, he's very judgemental for starters, and he tends to be impulsive, like every good character with depth, they have weaknesses as well as strengths, but his weaknesses and his strengths aren't things you often see in the traditional FF hero, and I liked that about him. Besides, XIII-2 did something no other FF game I've played has done, they gave you a villain who wasn't evil. Caius is certainly a very unique villain in that his reasons for what he does are selfless and noble.

The story could have been completely different, but so could XIII's, or VII's, or any other games. But then they wouldn't be the same game, so I don't really see the point you're trying to make. If you just don't like time travel that's your opinion, but what is it about time travel that you think detracts from this game? What is it that is irrelevant to the plot?

@Lirael No I think you said most of what needs to be said about why time travel is so imperative to the story of XIII-2 Without it the story would have had to be completely different, so much so it would have had to be an entirely different story altogether. In which case you could say the same for any other FF title. VIII didn't need to have sorceresses in it, X didn't need to have the Faith, IX didn't need to have space travel etc...

 

[Razberry Knight]

Hes a straight forward guy. A ZACK FAIR. Theres no distinct.


The reason why ffXIII-2 is criticized is because you ignoee the main aspect. That its associated with the original and insread of going in a "what xiii had was good and we can prove it" they went to "we'll take what you said, and in fact make it look like as if it wasnt a xiii"


You ignored alot to enjoy it and many people havent. Time travel as part of the gameplay is what im referring to. Also you comparingnoriginal games to this "sequel"

 

[Steve-O]

am I one of the only FFXIII-2 fans, I liked the game, yep the story a bit random, but I liked the time travel concept

anyway, mine has to be FFXII, i hated the characters 'vann', i found the game pl;ays itself with the garnet system or whatever it was, and mrrrr at the story, but i got to admit, the international version does look intresting

 

[greenyxi]

I personally thought 13-2 was the best FF since 10-2, and that was a damn long time ago. The gameplay was addictive (both battles and time traveling etc), the music is nice enough (certainly an improvement on 12 and 13), the graphics were fine and the monster collecting was a nice addition to keep the battles fresh.

The story WAS the downside, but it was enough to keep you going through the game. Again, it's not the best FF by a long shot, but I thought it was actually quite fun to play

 

[Sheechiibii]

Hes a straight forward guy. A ZACK FAIR. Theres no distinct.


The reason why ffXIII-2 is criticized is because you ignoee the main aspect. That its associated with the original and insread of going in a "what xiii had was good and we can prove it" they went to "we'll take what you said, and in fact make it look like as if it wasnt a xiii"


You ignored alot to enjoy it and many people havent. Time travel as part of the gameplay is what im referring to. Also you comparingnoriginal games to this "sequel"

Well maybe you should give some reasons for why you think that? Like I have given reasons for my opinions, instead of just putting them out there as if they're fact. I didn't ignore anything in enjoying the game. I never once ignored that it was connected to XIII, but I didn't dwell on it, I moved forwards with the new characters and setting and didn't try to find faults or compare it to the first game because it isn't the first game, it's a new game and I don't see why it should be criticized for things people disliked in XIII.

I agree with Toon Link, it's the best FF game we've had in a long time, I'd even say the best since X.

 

[Linnaete]

I do have a copy of the game at home, but I have only ever got up to somewhere in the Bresha Ruins with little intention of carrying on.

It could be because I have been so jaded with FFXIII and the state of things lately with how much SE seem to enjoy destroying their reputation day by day, or that I'm determined only to dislike it, that I just can't seem to go on. Serah's random magical girls transformation sequence GO! - because, lulz, paradox? - moment had my face on the table and I just knew that this wasn't for me anymore.

Sorry, FFXIII-2. There's probably something decent under that hood, but you're just not for me. I've also taken a look at what you call a "story" and I just find the lazy handwaving of all sorts of phenomena as "paradoxes" that you can inexplicably solve just by killing things 500 years earlier or later or whatever; a disregard and even a contradiction of some Fabula Nova Crystallis mythology (yes, Etro. Give your heart - that is fundamental to order and stability - to a man who was a Pulse L'Cie (who in the mythology should be hunting down and killing Etro), because that can't possibly bring forth anything calamitous!) and...well, just everything else. Like everything Hope does.

I now wonder if I can actually play Lightning Returns for more than an hour...

I will still maintain that FFXIII is the worse game, even if it is very technically polished and has more of a story than its sequel. At least FFXIII-2 does try to diverge from its predecessor in some way. FFXIII was just up to 40-50 hours of masturbatory flashiness and pretty things from a team screaming "HEY, LOOK AT OUR SHINY ROCKS!" while you as the player are stuck on a conveyer belt going in one direction only in a hallway.

anyway, mine has to be FFXII, i hated the characters 'vann', i found the game pl;ays itself with the garnet system or whatever it was, and mrrrr at the story, but i got to admit, the international version does look intresting

The Gambit system. It gets so much shit for making the game "play itself" when you can just not set up a gambit deck if you want to have as much control of the combat if you want (though since the game pretty much expects you to use Gambits, I understand that this would be very clunky and not intuitive. It's still do-able though, if you absolutely do not want the game to take any control from you whatsoever...). And I just appreciated the flexibility of the system as you can be as comprehensive as you can with your Gambit deck or just have very few to suit you, and AI programming is cool. I wish another game would borrow this mechanic and build upon it.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Well maybe you should give some reasons for why you think that? Like I have given reasons for my opinions, instead of just putting them out there as if they're fact. I didn't ignore anything in enjoying the game. I never once ignored that it was connected to XIII, but I didn't dwell on it, I moved forwards with the new characters and setting and didn't try to find faults or compare it to the first game because it isn't the first game, it's a new game and I don't see why it should be criticized for things people disliked in XIII.

I agree with Toon Link, it's the best FF game we've had in a long time, I'd even say the best since X.

same meaning different word. Not the best one in a while. The plot was confusing through time travel and made it overly complex for something that couldve been more simpler. Similar to the third birthday that added contradicting storyline. The time travel wasnt necessary because the plot was wasnt that complex. Caius and Yuels motives.

Not only that but the mythology of fabuka nova crystallis was usedextensively but at the same time more superficial as etro was used in such a lesser form than the mythology led on.


Noel and Serah didnt really strike me as main characters, no complexity, no hidden attribute, what we see in the first five seconds is what we see throughout the game. Amd worst there is the option to make these characrers look like foolsno...this game just throws up all over its predessessor. Snow never ends up marying Serah.


What i hate about xiii-2 is that it holds nothing close to the orginal nor does it stay true to the ending. Final Fantasy 7:AC may not have been the best film but for the most part stayed true to its predessessor and even gives some open space so that the story can progress.

Gameplay sure its decent. But still as tedious as its predessessor. The whole monster thing was decent but not groundbreaking. That time gauge was rather lame. I gave my reason time and time again screechiibii....i think you know my reasons more than anyone here

 

[Sheechiibii]

same meaning different word. Not the best one in a while. The plot was confusing through time travel and made it overly complex for something that couldve been more simpler. Similar to the third birthday that added contradicting storyline. The time travel wasnt necessary because the plot was wasnt that complex. Caius and Yuels motives.

Not only that but the mythology of fabuka nova crystallis was usedextensively but at the same time more superficial as etro was used in such a lesser form than the mythology led on.


Noel and Serah didnt really strike me as main characters, no complexity, no hidden attribute, what we see in the first five seconds is what we see throughout the game. Amd worst there is the option to make these characrers look like foolsno...this game just throws up all over its predessessor. Snow never ends up marying Serah.


What i hate about xiii-2 is that it holds nothing close to the orginal nor does it stay true to the ending. Final Fantasy 7:AC may not have been the best film but for the most part stayed true to its predessessor and even gives some open space so that the story can progress.

Gameplay sure its decent. But still as tedious as its predessessor. The whole monster thing was decent but not groundbreaking. That time gauge was rather lame. I gave my reason time and time again sheechiibii....i think you know my reasons more than anyone here

Well the things you didn't like about it seem to be some of the reasons I liked it. If it had been handled like XIII then I doubt I would have liked it, imo there was nothing good about XIII in any way and I have even played it a second time trying to find something of worth. I like that XIII-2 branched away from what we saw in XIII, I do think they stayed true to the initial mythology. The time travel aspect means that of course there are going to be a lot of changes.

I disagree completely with what you say about Serah and Noel being what you see at the beginning is what you get. Noel is pretty mysterious for most of the game, you don't know much about him at all and as the game goes on you learn more and you see more of his character, at the beginning of the game all you see of him is that he is quite in control and resolved, but you learn much more about him, you learn about him hurting over his past, about his fear of being alone, about his humility and dislike of taking life, about his anger and frustrations, about his judgements and his own impulsiveness. Serah especially is like an entirely different person by the end of the game. She starts of as a whiny little girl who wants someone to protect her, who just wants to sit at home and let men take care of her problems, by the end she is capable and happy chasing her own goals and working towards what she wants, being her own hero in a way.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Well the things you didn't like about it seem to be some of the reasons I liked it. If it had been handled like XIII then I doubt I would have liked it, imo there was nothing good about XIII in any way and I have even played it a second time trying to find something of worth. I like that XIII-2 branched away from what we saw in XIII, I do think they stayed true to the initial mythology. The time travel aspect means that of course there are going to be a lot of changes.

I disagree completely with what you say about Serah and Noel being what you see at the beginning is what you get. Noel is pretty mysterious for most of the game, you don't know much about him at all and as the game goes on you learn more and you see more of his character, at the beginning of the game all you see of him is that he is quite in control and resolved, but you learn much more about him, you learn about him hurting over his past, about his fear of being alone, about his humility and dislike of taking life, about his anger and frustrations, about his judgements and his own impulsiveness. Serah especially is like an entirely different person by the end of the game. She starts of as a whiny little girl who wants someone to protect her, who just wants to sit at home and let men take care of her problems, by the end she is capable and happy chasing her own goals and working towards what she wants, being her own hero in a way.

Serah still acts like that near the end.
Noel's personality remained the same talk big, heroic words etc. "If you want her, you have to go through me!" And so on....his past wasnt all that impressive (nor realistic). But overall, he just didnt have a single thing that made him unique or main character worthy, he seemed like he was there just to support Serah. And Serah had some growth but nothing thayvmade her shine. It was a stwady growth equal to Lightning's

Its just too superficial....its like saying " i hate legend of zelda series but i liked the sci fi version of it" XIII-2 still holds strong connections to its predessessor. And the story doesnt make much sense. The explanations of time and how Noel and Serah magically understand it.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Serah still acts like that near the end.
Noel's personality remained the same talk big, heroic words etc. "If you want her, you have to go through me!" And so on....his past wasnt all that impressive (nor realistic). But overall, he just didnt have a single thing that made him unique or main character worthy, he seemed like he was there just to support Serah.

Its just too superficial....its like saying " i hate legend of zelda series but i liked the sci fi version of it"

Well you think they didn't grow I think they did. In fact that's one of the reasons why I like XIII-2 but didn't like XIII. It has nothing to do with the time travel or being sci-fi or not. I didn't like XIII because the story was lacking, it didn't make me care about the characters, the characters didn't grow themselves or develop with each other, the world was just a series of pretty pictures in the background, you weren't allowed any choice in the levelling system until you were at the end of the game, there was virtually no sidequests of any sort until right at the very end. It has nothing to do with being fantasy or sci-fi - both of which have always been in FF anyway. XIII is the worst game in the series for me but I don't think it's fair to say that XIII-2 is a failure simply because it doesn't continue the awfulness that was XIII's story. X-2 had a different story as well and I didn't think it was a bad thing either.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Well you think they didn't grow I think they did. In fact that's one of the reasons why I like XIII-2 but didn't like XIII. It has nothing to do with the time travel or being sci-fi or not. I didn't like XIII because the story was lacking, it didn't make me care about the characters, the characters didn't grow themselves or develop with each other, the world was just a series of pretty pictures in the background, you weren't allowed any choice in the levelling system until you were at the end of the game, there was virtually no sidequests of any sort until right at the very end. It has nothing to do with being fantasy or sci-fi - both of which have always been in FF anyway. XIII is the worst game in the series for me but I don't think it's fair to say that XIII-2 is a failure simply because it doesn't continue the awfulness that was XIII's story. X-2 had a different story as well and I didn't think it was a bad thing either.

Its completely fair. X-2 still connecred to X.

Xiii had the potential to do more but didnt, everything we couldve seen in XIII couldve also been on XIII-2 but we didnt see it. We had to see other characters, the only exception to this is Hope but overall, these characters didnt grow on me. The decisions these characters had to go through was mostly influenced by the player, meaning it looked like hard decisions but they were hard on the player not on the character such as Noel or Serah. And of course the option to make them look like idiots.

Overall, Noel didnt seem genuine to me, and Serah was always a lil too weak even in her stronger moments.

 

[Jacqui]

It really irritates me that people keep giving this game good reviews. I don't understand how people are ok with it. I am going to list every aspect of this game that disappointed me and I would like people to defend their own opinion if they disagree with any specific thing I say.

Firstly, people are OK with this game, and are giving it good reviews because they liked it. I'm not keen on the way that you are irritated about people giving the game good reviews, because it's all about opinion and taste, everyone has a different taste in things, and I feel that you should be accepting of that, even though you personally disliked the game.

Characters:

Noel and Serah look very generic. They don't look like you'd expect classic FF heroes to look like.(by classic I mean FF2-9) There isn't really anything special about them at all. Noel just looks like a rip off of a Kingdom Hearts character, and Serah just looks like an ordinary girl with a white skirt.
The dialog and voice acting between these two is so childish it's painful to listen to most of the time. It reminds me of watching old school Power Rangers when i was 7 years old. A Final Fantasy character should be original, look bad ass, and his actions should also reflect that same attitude. In FF13 and 13-2, all the characters are a bunch of cry baby pussies that do nothing but struggle with their emo problems the entire time. The only one who has even the slightest bit of a bad ass quality is Lightning, and even she acts like she's on her period half the time.

I totally disagree. First of all, the outfits mean nothing. It doesn't matter what they are wearing to me as long as it's not obscene or offensive. I don't think that the voice acting is childish. I think that it's normal voice acting within a game. There are other games around that have worse voice acting than others.
I find your comments on the characters very stereotyping, and frankly I find the comments about "a bunch of pussies" and Lightning "being on her period" offensive. Lightning isn't even there throughout 90% of the game, and the stereotypical way you describe her is not necessary. I'm not the biggest fan of Lightning in the world, but I do think that she is undeserving of your description. I think that it was necessary for her to act the way she did- during the entire gameplay she is stuck in Valhalla fighting, and it's not exactly easy for her.
Regarding the other characters, I felt that they were fairly well developed, not the best characters in the series, but interesting enough. I liked the way that Noel's backstory was filled in during the game, and his relationship with Yeul and Caius was predictable, but interesting. Serah irritated me somewhat at the beginning of the game, but once they started going through the gates, I felt that she was growing up a bit. I do think that the characters are flawed, but what character isn't? It makes them more interesting to me.

The Story

people seem to think that a far out, complex story is automatically a good one. This story is so "out there" that it's hard to follow at times. The characters also come to conclusions that no one could possibley reach with the given information. The whole time I'm just struggling to keep up with Noel and Serah's random epiphanies. Maybe it's because at some point I lost the will to pay attention, but I still don't understand how or why Lightning came to be in Valhalla, what the real purpose of Yeull's existence is, or why she needs Caius to protect her.

I don't find the story hard to follow at all. I think that there has to be some leaping to conclusions to keep the story flowing, but they weren't so far out as to be impossible to come up with. Lightning's appearance in Valhalla is explained in a flashback to the events at the end of XIII at some point, and it's also described many times throughout the storyline, as I remember it. Also Caius and Yeul's storyline is explained at different points in the game, perhaps sometimes not as clearly as it could be, but it's definitely there.

Capturing Monsters

Originally I liked this idea, but they screwed it up. From my experience, the first Medic, Commando, and Ravager you capture will remain your best 3 monsters until you get to the end of the game. Even powerful monsters you capture half-way through the game don't compete with the original 3 you get as long as you've been leveling them up properly. I didn't switch my 3 monsters 'til I got the Gold Chocobo near the end of the story. The game should have found a better way to encourage the use of more monsters.

OK, I agree with this one to an extent. Apart from the DLC "monsters" you can get, I generally stuck with the three monsters I originally captured, although I did get stuck levelling them up at some stages because I didn't have the parts.

Soundtrack

some of the songs were just re-used from the previous FF. The first time I got on a Red Chocobo and herd the screamo song I laughed. the lyrics are so weak it still makes me shake my head everytime I hear it. Pretty much every other song in the game just kinda reminds me elevator music. It's just kinda background noise I don't even really notice is playing. Whatever happened to brilliant soundtracks like FF7 and 9? The music in those games actually fit what was happening in the game and helped set the mood for certain situations. Like the song playing in FF7 when Aeris dies actually sounds tragic.

OK, I admit it. I love the Red Chocobo theme. But it's there to show you that those Chocobos are not your run of the mill birds- they're wild and they're greedy, and I think that the music shows that. I do think that certain parts had bland music, but not exactly terrible. Other parts (like a Dying World) I thought that the music fitted perfectly.

Post-Game Play

After defeating the final boss, there is really no reason whatsoever to play this game anymore. The end boss is the hardest in the whole game, so if you beat him then there really isn't any other way to prove yourself. I found no reason to even bother 100% filling out the crystarium, or bothering to find the perfect combination of monster fusions. I even downloaded a couple of the Coliseum fights hoping they would be a challenge but both fights took 1 attempt, 3-4 minutes, with no character/monster even close to maxed out....absolutely no sense of accomplishment.
Everyone was talking about how this game wasn't going to have the same problem being too linear like the previous title, but they still failed to give any real incentive to do any side missions. All you get out of it are stupid fragments that really don't help you with anything. I found that straying off the main story line path was just a waste of time.

Maybe we have different battle styles, but post game, I still found it difficult to battle some of the optional bosses- I still haven't beaten Omega or Long Gui...mainly because I haven't tried doing it for a while. But I admit, I was hoping for more of a post game storyline.

Classic Final Fantasy Elements

I don't understand why this game deserved a "Final Fantasy" title...they should have just called it something else. It's missing way too many classic elements that make a game a Final Fantasy. There are no summon abilities, no conventional towns with different shops, no open world to explore, no airship, not being able to choose a party from 7-8 different characters, all the weapons look the same, no challenging optional bosses, and they've done away side quests that are only open for certain windows of time throughout the story that actually provide you with useful items. (secret quests, as they might be called)

Side Note - I'm not a fan of the whole theme of the last two games...It's called "Final FANTASY" not "Final Science Fiction Story."

Hmm...I've said this before, but any game that bears the FF title deserves to be called Final Fantasy purely because that was what it was developed as. Seriously, look around the subforums for the other games, chances are you'll find someone claiming that one game or another was not deserving of the FF title

And IMHO, Scifi is a form of fantasy, what with imagined technology that doesn't yet exist. I might be alone in that though

 

[Ultimaja]

Wow, the OP seems to go out of it's way to desperately sack XIII-2.

*Noel's character sucks because his outfit is blue, and I don't like the color blue*

That's sort of how the entirety of the OP reads to me.

 

[Sunowo]

It really irritates me that people keep giving this game good reviews. I don't understand how people are ok with it. I am going to list every aspect of this game that disappointed me and I would like people to defend their own opinion if they disagree with any specific thing I say.

Ok, since I loved the game, I will try to answer to what you are going to say.

Characters:

Noel and Serah look very generic. They don't look like you'd expect classic FF heroes to look like.(by classic I mean FF2-9) There isn't really anything special about them at all. Noel just looks like a rip off of a Kingdom Hearts character, and Serah just looks like an ordinary girl with a white skirt.
The dialog and voice acting between these two is so childish it's painful to listen to most of the time. It reminds me of watching old school Power Rangers when i was 7 years old. A Final Fantasy character should be original, look bad ass, and his actions should also reflect that same attitude. In FF13 and 13-2, all the characters are a bunch of cry baby pussies that do nothing but struggle with their emo problems the entire time. The only one who has even the slightest bit of a bad ass quality is Lightning, and even she acts like she's on her period half the time.

I think Noel is not a generic character. I mean, no more than any other final fantasy character. He is a boy, he behaves like one, but he is not generic at all. We see his struggle with Yeul throughout the game, his rivalry with Caius, his growing love towards Serah, etc. I think the character is good written, his aim is clear, his personality, his inspirations, his traits. I think everything is perfectly clear. His relationship with Serah is also good developed, if not, it would feel like Serah feels the same towards Noel than towards and any other character, and this is clearly not true. About him being a classic FF hero, maybe you feel he doesn't follow the same pattern as classic FF protagonists, but I don't feel there's even a pattern, since all FF protagonists look pretty different to me. About Serah, she is clearly not like any other FF protagonist, yes she's weak at first, but you see throughout the game how she grows stronger, especially if you take into account that she couldn't even fight in FFXIII. The dialogue seems a bit childish because they both are too young, although I don't consider their story infantile at all.

About XIII characters being cry baby pussies, I think that's out of line. Lightning is not a cry baby, Snow is not a cry baby either but he just lost his fiancee, I don't think showing his feelings is being an emo. Fang is not a cry baby either, not even Vanille is a pussy. The only annoying person there is Hope, but he slowly gets better. Lightning surely has anger problems, but I don't see how that's a negative aspect of her personality.

The Story

people seem to think that a far out, complex story is automatically a good one. This story is so "out there" that it's hard to follow at times. The characters also come to conclusions that no one could possibley reach with the given information. The whole time I'm just struggling to keep up with Noel and Serah's random epiphanies. Maybe it's because at some point I lost the will to pay attention, but I still don't understand how or why Lightning came to be in Valhalla, what the real purpose of Yeull's existence is, or why she needs Caius to protect her.

I agree the story being told in such a retrospective way makes it hard to follow. This is the typical game that is much better understood if played a second time. Caius wants Cocoon to be destroyed, and so when Lightning and her party save Cocoon, Caius uses Chaos to create a distortion that sucks Lightning inside the Unseen Realm. If Lightning never existed, then Cocoon won't be saved. But between the Unseen Realm and the Real World is Valhalla, and there lies Etro. Lightning meets Etro and FFXIII-2 starts.

About Yeul. What do you mean by "purpose" of Yeul's existence? Yeul is the container of the Eyes of Etro, which alow her to see into the future. Caius is the container of the Heart of Etro, which makes him immortal. Their "purpose" is that those two are the last parts of Etro that remain, and Etro is needed for the world to remain intact. We see that when Caius dies, the world collapses because Etro dies too. As for why Yeul has a guardian, this comes from her original tribe, which assigned a L'cie protector to her because she was able to predict the future. At a certain moment, an enemy army attacks the tribe, Yeul's protector dies, and his focus jumps to Caius. Caius summons Bahamut at the cost of his life to destroy the enemy army. Moved by his dedication, Etro refuses to let Caius die, and grants him her heart to turn him immortal so he can protect Yeul's reincarnation forever.

Capturing Monsters

Originally I liked this idea, but they screwed it up. From my experience, the first Medic, Commando, and Ravager you capture will remain your best 3 monsters until you get to the end of the game. Even powerful monsters you capture half-way through the game don't compete with the original 3 you get as long as you've been leveling them up properly. I didn't switch my 3 monsters 'til I got the Gold Chocobo near the end of the story. The game should have found a better way to encourage the use of more monsters.

Well that didn't happen to me, I don't even remember which were my first monsters. But I think what you are saying makes sense, since it means you can basicly use whatever monsters you like if you level them properly, which is something I see as a positive aspect.

Soundtrack

some of the songs were just re-used from the previous FF. The first time I got on a Red Chocobo and herd the screamo song I laughed. the lyrics are so weak it still makes me shake my head everytime I hear it. Pretty much every other song in the game just kinda reminds me elevator music. It's just kinda background noise I don't even really notice is playing. Whatever happened to brilliant soundtracks like FF7 and 9? The music in those games actually fit what was happening in the game and helped set the mood for certain situations. Like the song playing in FF7 when Aeris dies actually sounds tragic.

I liked the soundtrack although a lot of songs are versions of FFXIII, which is something I think they made on purpose. But I can not agree the soundtrack is bad lol. Serah's theme, Caius theme, Noel's, Yeul's, Yokusoku no Basho... Those are among my top FF songs ever. And nother thing I have to say about the sound is general, is how nice dubbed are characters. [h=1][/h]

Post-Game Play

After defeating the final boss, there is really no reason whatsoever to play this game anymore. The end boss is the hardest in the whole game, so if you beat him then there really isn't any other way to prove yourself. I found no reason to even bother 100% filling out the crystarium, or bothering to find the perfect combination of monster fusions. I even downloaded a couple of the Coliseum fights hoping they would be a challenge but both fights took 1 attempt, 3-4 minutes, with no character/monster even close to maxed out....absolutely no sense of accomplishment.
Everyone was talking about how this game wasn't going to have the same problem being too linear like the previous title, but they still failed to give any real incentive to do any side missions. All you get out of it are stupid fragments that really don't help you with anything. I found that straying off the main story line path was just a waste of time.

I had quite a few quests left, like the Lightning squad story, and some alternate endings like the pudding one. Of course it is up to you how to play the game. Some people make sure they do all the side-content before the final boss, some people don't. Point is, you can end FFXIII-2 and skip a lot of content that you can do after you beat the game.

Classic Final Fantasy Elements

I don't understand why this game deserved a "Final Fantasy" title...they should have just called it something else. It's missing way too many classic elements that make a game a Final Fantasy. There are no summon abilities, no conventional towns with different shops, no open world to explore, no airship, not being able to choose a party from 7-8 different characters, all the weapons look the same, no challenging optional bosses, and they've done away side quests that are only open for certain windows of time throughout the story that actually provide you with useful items. (secret quests, as they might be called)

Side Note - I'm not a fan of the whole theme of the last two games...It's called "Final FANTASY" not "Final Science Fiction Story."

The weapons do not look the same... And about the "not challenging" optional bosses that's just you, other people may find the game overall pretty easy, and other pretty hard. And the side quests are amazing imo, a pity that in LReturns are not half as good.

And to sumarize I can agree the game is definetly not a classic, but not that I consider that to be a negative aspect. I liked the whole saga and I don't usualy approach a game with expectations about how the game will be, I just play it and discover it myself. So I rarely get upset about those kind of things. I think FFXIII-2 is the best of the three both in gameplay and story.