I also know all this, was just putting the point across that summoning doesn't have to deplete all your MP, you have enough time to use a load of ethers and so on before the espers time runs out or they are KO'd. As for attacking yourself to get down to 10% of their maximum health, that isn't necessary. Just summon when you are at 10% of your HP and get out the way. Quick way of dealing a large amount of damage. Could be risky though.
XII Ruined Summoning
- Thread starter Jasmine You
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I also know all this, was just putting the point across that summoning doesn't have to deplete all your MP, you have enough time to use a load of ethers and so on before the espers time runs out or they are KO'd. As for attacking yourself to get down to 10% of their maximum health, that isn't necessary. Just summon when you are at 10% of your HP and get out the way. Quick way of dealing a large amount of damage. Could be risky though.
Yeah, i usually do that. or the other way, when the Enemy is Near-Death call
and he finishes the Job.
I wouldn't mind summoning them all the time, at least of they only had Infinite time or some Item/Accessory/Ability that increased drastically the Summoning time.
And the worst thing ever done by SE, release FFXII International Zodiac Job System only on JP
I would be happy with that version, and my point of view towards FFXII would increase a lot.
Zalera
I wouldn't mind summoning them all the time, at least of they only had Infinite time or some Item/Accessory/Ability that increased drastically the Summoning time.
And the worst thing ever done by SE, release FFXII International Zodiac Job System only on JP
I would be happy with that version, and my point of view towards FFXII would increase a lot.
Vauel-Faur
Knyht Cissuhan
I dislike FFXII summons, as they seem to be more of a hindrance than anything. Summoning in this game just leaves me feeling crippled, and I can't honestly say that I have ever needed to use Espers. Then again, I haven't done everything in the game, so who knows? They might be useful at one point or another.
the summoning in this game totally blows!!!!. everytime i summon an esper it gets killed or the summoner gets killed before it can do any thing.... It is enough to drive a person crazy
Hippie Kev
The Hippie
I loved my MP gauge way too much to lose it all on an ineffective summon. They were nice for the eye candy factor and it made the battle music more exciting but other than that I found summoning to be too expensive for what it was.
Awesome Reno
Blue Mage
Hmmm i wouldn't say it sucked but it wasn't the best, it was a farce trying to get the later espers (zodiarc and ulitima) to unleash their "finishing" move ulitma more so, but the entire summoning just didn't have control to it, you basically summoned a creature to go mad upon your enimes, you couldn't tell it what to do which is what dropped it in the ranks for me.
Yea, summoning in FFXIII was absolutely pointless. I remember collecting each one with eager anticipation of their usefulness only to find that each one sucked more than the last. Actually, I remember racing BustaMo. Each new summon cost more to cast, did less damage, and reminded me more and more of how I hated FFXII's mp system.
I didn't use the summons as much as I used them in previous FF Games, and apart from that part of the game where you needed to use Belias to carry on - I never used them.
I think they messed up trying to make them different. If they had it like FFX's system - where you can fully control them - I think it would have worked better.
And, if they didn't have a ridiculously high MP cost
I think they messed up trying to make them different. If they had it like FFX's system - where you can fully control them - I think it would have worked better.
And, if they didn't have a ridiculously high MP cost
McMoogle
Don't look now...
The main problem with the espers was the gambit system didn't really work to fit them in
there's no point in summoning something if you can't control it at all
plus you sacrificed two of your characters( and a crapload of MP) to get an ally that is useless against anything stronger than your run-of-the-mill enemies.
there's no point in summoning something if you can't control it at all
plus you sacrificed two of your characters( and a crapload of MP) to get an ally that is useless against anything stronger than your run-of-the-mill enemies.
While I don't completely agree with this post, it was freaking HILARIOUS.
I know exactly what you're talking about. You'll see some baddie in wastes and you could easily just take him down but you've got a full bar of MP and why not waste it on a summon. So you summon your creature to take down 2 or 3 baddies that you could've beaten back at lvl 20 and you watch your summon struggle. He dances around, not really attacking, manages to get one hit on a creature, and then disappears because his time is all used up. It's like watching a baby attack a dragon... just so pathetic.
I have to think too that maybe FFXII was trying to make Summons a little bit less dependable after FFX. I mean FFX you could whip out a summon in an extremely hard boss battle, and that summon could last the whole fight; it wasn't on a time-table.
I'm not saying Summons were the sole way to win battles in FFX, but they sure were the most useful summons out of any FF game I think. Sure FFVII ahd KotR which was a winner overall, but to date, FFX has the most useful. I think Summons in FFXII were mroe for nostalgia and adventure than actual use. The paths you had to take to get to some of these Espers was such a challenge in itself aside from the main story-line, and each Esper had its own story and participation back in the beginning of time when the gods were the lone beings.
I'm not saying Summons were the sole way to win battles in FFX, but they sure were the most useful summons out of any FF game I think. Sure FFVII ahd KotR which was a winner overall, but to date, FFX has the most useful. I think Summons in FFXII were mroe for nostalgia and adventure than actual use. The paths you had to take to get to some of these Espers was such a challenge in itself aside from the main story-line, and each Esper had its own story and participation back in the beginning of time when the gods were the lone beings.
Summons had become almost an embarrassment for FF in many peoples' eyes. The series was often criticised for basically having a battle system which consisted of nothing but watching summoning animations. I think they were just trying to address that but overdid it.
However, some of the summons can be pretty powerful if you know how to use them. For example, Zodiark will do Final Eclipse, dealing 50,000 damage, if the summoner is petrified. All you have to do is put a Nihopalaoa on the summoner, use a Gold Needle on them and they'll be petrified. There, 50,000 damage to a group of enemies! Then just take off the Nihopalaoa and use another Gold Needle.
Also, in Final Fantasy XII: International, you can control both the summons and the guest characters. I really wish they'd release that version in North America or Europe; they really fixed a lot of the things that marred FFXII for me. It does actually come with the English voice acting but all the text is Japanese, meaning not only the menus going to be hard to navigate and the items hard to identify, all the non-voiced dialogue is also going to be incomprehensible.
However, some of the summons can be pretty powerful if you know how to use them. For example, Zodiark will do Final Eclipse, dealing 50,000 damage, if the summoner is petrified. All you have to do is put a Nihopalaoa on the summoner, use a Gold Needle on them and they'll be petrified. There, 50,000 damage to a group of enemies! Then just take off the Nihopalaoa and use another Gold Needle.
Also, in Final Fantasy XII: International, you can control both the summons and the guest characters. I really wish they'd release that version in North America or Europe; they really fixed a lot of the things that marred FFXII for me. It does actually come with the English voice acting but all the text is Japanese, meaning not only the menus going to be hard to navigate and the items hard to identify, all the non-voiced dialogue is also going to be incomprehensible.
I've recently started a new game of XII for two main reasons, the first of which was to actually complete all of the hunts this time and not give up and go in the huff because I can't beat one of the last three.
The other reason was to prove that Summoning isn't as bad as people profess it to be. I used to rely on Quickenings to get me through a lengthy or complicated boss and, usually, a concurrence would annihilate said boss. However, since I'm refusing to use them, I've had to rely on other measures and I've found that Summoning is almost the next best thing, even for regular battles.
I'm not a strong magick user and I rarely ever use long-ranged weapons (I go straight from regular weapons -> three Demonsbanes -> three Deathbringers -> Legendary Weapons) and, without quickenings, Espers are my next best bet for beating aerial foes.
When I'm trekking through a long map, I occasionally get bored with my three characters and, so, I'll call an Esper and have him do the work for me. I realise that they can occasionally be slower at killing enemies than if you had a team of three but I tend to exploit elemental weaknesses and I've had few problems.
In situations, such as the ridiculous number of dividing Flans in the Henne Mines; unless I relied on a Quickening chain and a consequent concurrence, I'd have to attack all of them, heal, cure my status ailments...and, by this time, twice as many flans have appeared. So, how to defeat them? With no magickal purchases, and no access to Fira(/ga), the best option was Belias. He quickly lost a lot of health but not enough to kill him; alas, he used Hellfire and killed all of the enemies.
As a bonus, I discovered that experience is shared amongst your active party members, by default, and I was unaware of this. Summong merits your summoner 100% of the experience - so, instead of my characters getting 300exp each for defeating 20 flans, Balthier received 1200exp for the same 20 flans. It's a faster way of levelling up your characters.
So, my conclusion is that Espers are great IF YOU USE THEM. It annoys me now because no one complains about Quickenings but it's the same principal; it consumes all of your MP, is unpredictable and very reliant on chance.
Simply: Espers > Quickenings, imo.
The other reason was to prove that Summoning isn't as bad as people profess it to be. I used to rely on Quickenings to get me through a lengthy or complicated boss and, usually, a concurrence would annihilate said boss. However, since I'm refusing to use them, I've had to rely on other measures and I've found that Summoning is almost the next best thing, even for regular battles.
I'm not a strong magick user and I rarely ever use long-ranged weapons (I go straight from regular weapons -> three Demonsbanes -> three Deathbringers -> Legendary Weapons) and, without quickenings, Espers are my next best bet for beating aerial foes.
When I'm trekking through a long map, I occasionally get bored with my three characters and, so, I'll call an Esper and have him do the work for me. I realise that they can occasionally be slower at killing enemies than if you had a team of three but I tend to exploit elemental weaknesses and I've had few problems.
In situations, such as the ridiculous number of dividing Flans in the Henne Mines; unless I relied on a Quickening chain and a consequent concurrence, I'd have to attack all of them, heal, cure my status ailments...and, by this time, twice as many flans have appeared. So, how to defeat them? With no magickal purchases, and no access to Fira(/ga), the best option was Belias. He quickly lost a lot of health but not enough to kill him; alas, he used Hellfire and killed all of the enemies.
As a bonus, I discovered that experience is shared amongst your active party members, by default, and I was unaware of this. Summong merits your summoner 100% of the experience - so, instead of my characters getting 300exp each for defeating 20 flans, Balthier received 1200exp for the same 20 flans. It's a faster way of levelling up your characters.
So, my conclusion is that Espers are great IF YOU USE THEM. It annoys me now because no one complains about Quickenings but it's the same principal; it consumes all of your MP, is unpredictable and very reliant on chance.
Simply: Espers > Quickenings, imo.
The_Bard
Materia Hunter
Very good point Vayne 
I like the Espers, but certainly not as much as I hoped I would. When I summon one, I find it's a good idea to cast bubble on it immediately, then cure when necessary until they use their strongest attack.
They're helpful in some hunts, too!
I like the Espers, but certainly not as much as I hoped I would. When I summon one, I find it's a good idea to cast bubble on it immediately, then cure when necessary until they use their strongest attack. They're helpful in some hunts, too!
Heh, I hardly EVER use summons in FFXII... I just find them an absolute waste of time. Sure, handy VERY rarely... but for all the trouble you have to go through to get some of them (example: Ultima) and then summon them to use them... well she hardly ever lasts 5 seconds anyway.
I agree FFXII ruined summoning... It'd have been better if they had just stuck to the Call Summon > Summon uses attack > summon leaves...
I agree FFXII ruined summoning... It'd have been better if they had just stuck to the Call Summon > Summon uses attack > summon leaves...
Only time I had summoned Espers was to see their appearence and their quickenings. =).
Also, I have not played in awhile but do the Espers use the 4th level elemental magic? I don't remember them using them after you acquired them. =/. Now I find that to be quite lame.
Went through all that trouble and nothing....
Also, I have not played in awhile but do the Espers use the 4th level elemental magic? I don't remember them using them after you acquired them. =/. Now I find that to be quite lame.
Went through all that trouble and nothing....
I think they're supposed to have the -aja spells... but I don't think I saw them either... It's been a while though. I'll have to go back and look at that.
and I kinda don't feel complete without Ifrit and Shiva as summons. Sure we hav Belias and Mateus... but they're not the same.... Ifrit and Shiva to be make up a staple of the FF series.
Also, initiating some of the final moves of Summons can be SO ANNOYING!
and I kinda don't feel complete without Ifrit and Shiva as summons. Sure we hav Belias and Mateus... but they're not the same.... Ifrit and Shiva to be make up a staple of the FF series.
Also, initiating some of the final moves of Summons can be SO ANNOYING!
