Zack vs. Cloud: Who's Stronger?

I'm just gonna go with Cloud. Based on;

  • You don't ever play Zack. (I think)
  • Cloud killed Sephiroth.
  • Cloud is the main character.
That's why I think Cloud is stronger, based on playing him more and the fact that you don't get a choice to play Zack.

That's my opinion anyway. My facts may be fiction.
 
Vesphyr said:
I'm just gonna go with Cloud. Based on;
  • You don't ever play Zack. (I think)
  • Cloud killed Sephiroth.
  • Cloud is the main character.
That's why I think Cloud is stronger, based on playing him more and the fact that you don't get a choice to play Zack.

That's my opinion anyway. My facts may be fiction.
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In Crisis Core He's implied to be almost on par with Sephiroth, Angeal, and Genesis. Then you fight the three of them later in the game.
 
the comparison shouldn't be about who was able to kill who, it should be a direct measure of strength between them and their abilities, AKA which one would win in a fight, NOT "cloud killed sephiroth so he's stronger!" or "zack weakened sephiroth for cloud so he's stronger!". Those statements are full of bias and add no helpful contribution to the debate.

We need a basis for comparison to determine the winner. The trick is agreeing on a basis for comparison that is fair to both sides. If we use the in-game systems, each of them has the potential to reach lv99 with 9999/999 hp/mp and 255 stats, so it's null in that case. Judging by accomplishments is also a fallacy since it doesn't directly determine who would win in a fight, it just determines who's accomplished more or who has more man points, etc.

So what everything comes down to is a matter of opinion, meaning that a decided victor will never happen until SE either 1) makes another Dissidia or FF game with Zack and Cloud in it to compare stats/abilities, or 2) Tetsuya Nomura tells a magazine which one is stronger.
 
The only way to possibly judge Cloud/Zack is by who they fought. Cloud beats Seph, Zack gets one-shotted by Seph. So I believe Cloud>Zack. Obviously, I am judging Zack's strength before his death, and Cloud's strength during FFVII. Also, Cloud appears to be stronger during his cinematic scenes (most notably Advent Children) than Zack does during his (Crisis Core).

That said, there is no conclusive, solid evidence to point to either being stronger than the other, just that Cloud has slightly more in his favor than Zack does.
 
cloud by a long shot if your going after crisis core and beyond however during or pre cc cloud was weaker no arguemants on either way now for explanations -

after cc - he not only KILLED sephiroth twice but he could take on zacks becuse he knows everything zacks knows in combat after cc and more.

during/pre cc - zacks has loads more going on than cloud in almost every perspective infact i cant realy think of anything cloud was better at then zacks during/pre cc

and thats looking at it in a realistic perspective if thats how you are trying to think about it but in reality the only way those 2 would even think about attacking each other is do to being possed with tottaly no control of them selv's and every one who played both gmes and finished them knows it.
 
I believe Cloud to be the strongest FF Character.

This is what I believe. Whether its due to cloud possessing some hidden power or an emotional anime type scene, whats important is that a lv 1 pierced (not nicked) a lv 50 and then tossed him like a doll after being stabbed himself by a lv 50. Clouds wasnt even on Sephiroths meter, and then boom, off the scale! Thats why Sephiroths been obsessed with Cloud ever since, he knows hes special, tremendously so.

Though Tifa survived too, a full on slash, that could be due to her martial arts training, I cant remember if that was before or after, it could be why she was trained in the first place, maybe the master saw something in her. Its not really covered in the series so its up to speculation, maybe Sephiroth didnt use much effort, sure looked like he did. Zack curiously was only slapped and couldnt get back up. (FFVII version) But I guess due to exhaustion versing Sephiroth over and over he couldnt go on, which he should have been able to do more given his higher lever..

Cloud could easily beat Zack or anyone else given the proper motivation, regardless of level. All he has to do is tap into that power.
 
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Cloud was stronger at the begginning of FFVII I think. When Cloud was altered by Hojo, he became much stronger... just retarted. After he knows what he's doing, he's obviously stronger.
 
It's a moot point in the end. Short of having the two of them clash in their prime there is no real way to say who is stronger. However if you are going to base it on accomplishments then Cloud would have to take it especially for Advent Children. He fights the remnants Bahaumut SIN and Sephiroth in the span of a few hours and practically solo's all of them. Even if Sephiroth supposedly didn't take Cloud seriously you would think he would after Cloud shows himself to be on his level. Sephiroth is arrogant not stupid he's already been killed by Cloud before and I don't know about you but someone who killed me once can probably do it again... I would take that seriously.

Also end result is Zack died retardly and Cloud is still alive despite massive amounts of bullshit and shennanigans. I don't see him taking on the evil Tonberry's so gotta give it to Cloud.
 
I dont think the arena is not set properly, it should'nt be Cloud vs Zack should it?

Comparisons vs different enemies are a good way to compare them, Dissidia would not prove it either given user preference and skill level of different players. I'm not sure there is a way find who is superior.

I like to look at this way, Cloud took on Sephiroth and Shinra and Zack took on Sephiroth and Shinra and fell in battle, However Cloud took on the same Shinra Army and Sephiroth and managed to defeat both without failing(he had help).

But in the end Cloud defeated Sephiroth on his own.

Its hard to gain a single decisive point into this argument.
I'm gonna explain this with pictures lol

:cloud:+:zack: = :seph:killer
 
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I dont know man, different circumstances etc...
Cloud was younger and Zack older.. when Sephiroth fell into the lifestream at the reactor he died right? I guess that was just Cloud's luck, what if he got killed by Seph then?

About Cloud defeating Seph at the end of FF7 ,yeah maybe that was strong of him.but was it Seph's real body? I dont know (I never finished FF7) and in FF7 AC that Sephiroth was not real IMO..

So I think CLoud was just waaayy lucky ass, Zack is much stronger IMO, but maybe he was just too old or something lol.
 
Ohri-Jin said:
I dont know man, different circumstances etc...
Cloud was younger and Zack older.. when Sephiroth fell into the lifestream at the reactor he died right? I guess that was just Cloud's luck, what if he got killed by Seph then?

About Cloud defeating Seph at the end of FF7 ,yeah maybe that was strong of him.but was it Seph's real body? I dont know (I never finished FF7) and in FF7 AC that Sephiroth was not real IMO..

So I think CLoud was just waaayy lucky ass, Zack is much stronger IMO, but maybe he was just too old or something lol.
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Funny that Cloud gets all these asterisks and outer-locus explanations in his multiple defeat of Sephiroth, but this same treatment isn't given to Zack in his fight with Sephiroth?

How do we know that Sephiroth wasn't just toying with Zack? How do we know that he even gave a shit? How do we know that he wasn't preoccupied with his mother, or that he severely underestimated Zack?

This isn't really meant as anything directly against you, as I've seen this type of approach applied 100x over by users in here. This particular double standard just didn't really catch my eye until now.

I'm aware that it's easier to play the game with Cloud in their initial, respective throwdowns with Seph of the Crisis Core arc, but it still just seems a task that people undergo in trying to find all these answers around something rather than taking the scene for what it is.
 
Ohri-Jin said:
I dont know man, different circumstances etc...
Cloud was younger and Zack older.. when Sephiroth fell into the lifestream at the reactor he died right? I guess that was just Cloud's luck, what if he got killed by Seph then?

About Cloud defeating Seph at the end of FF7 ,yeah maybe that was strong of him.but was it Seph's real body? I dont know (I never finished FF7) and in FF7 AC that Sephiroth was not real IMO..

So I think CLoud was just waaayy lucky ass, Zack is much stronger IMO, but maybe he was just too old or something lol.
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Quoted for the Lulz.

Alright, alright, let's pick this apart then.

Cloud younger and Zack older? First of all, age doesn't mean jack, unless you expect Cid to be able to beat Sephiroth on his own. For all purposes, he's older. Even Red XIII is older than Sephiroth.

Cloud defeated Sephiroth multiple times, and yes he did come back. But you're quite underestimating the word "defeated" here. Most people on Earth in Final Fantasy VII would be extremely lucky to survive seeing Sephiroth, and Cloud defeated him 5 times, regardless of whether he came back or not. And no, Sephiroth didn't die when he fell into the Mako in Nibelheim Reactor.

And yes, that was indeed Sephiroth's real body. I don't even know what kind of theory you can be looking at by thinking it's not.
And yes, the Sephiroth in Final Fantasy Advent Children is real.

Let's also not forget that whereas Zack is by all means a great Warrior to have fought Sephiroth alone once and come out of it alive, but without any training whatsoever, Cloud also managed to pick up THE Buster Sword, sneak behind Sephiroth with it, and pierce him through and through. And let's not forget that Zack was SOLDIER. Cloud wasn't, and never even made it to SOLDIER, contrary to popular belief.
Also, it's pretty much official trivia that ShinRa operatives are NOT able to pick up and wield the Buster Sword. Cloud not only picks it up, he strikes Sephiroth with it. Again, most people wouldn't survive seeing him. Well, most people didn't.

Also, I cannot stress enough that Zack IS NOT THAT MUCH OLDER THAN CLOUD. There's really no use calling him "lucky" because luck had nothing to do with it. Honestly, with all due respect, you really don't even qualify as someone who can be sure of which of either are stronger because you, yourself said, that you haven't even finished Final Fantasy VII. And that ending pretty much puts shit down as to who the hell is indeed stronger.

And if we're gonna be picky about it then, tell me. Who's alive? And who's dead?

PS: It's Sephiroth. Not Seph.
 
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HighwindPilot said:
This isn't really meant as anything directly against you, as I've seen this type of approach applied 100x over by users in here. This particular double standard just didn't really catch my eye until now.
Click to expand...

That's because people who use this approach haven't completed FF7 or never even touched it at all. They play/watch the spin-offs and feel more attachment to these minor characters.

I completely agree that luck is not part of Cloud's success. He received more severe wounds than Zack (being impaled and all) and still defeated Sephiroth without SOLDIER enhancements. He beat Sephiroth in Bizarro form and in Safer form with no breaks in between (both were with the party's help, but each form was stronger than the original Sephiroth). Cloud is then immediately forced to use willpower to overcome his enemy in a mental battle (see "Who's Willpower is Stronger" thread to understand how difficult this is). Then, Sephiroth returns from the lifestream 2 years later only to get sent back by Omnislah Version 6.

According to the original game, Zack lasted less than 10 seconds against Sephiroth. In their primes, Cloud is obviously more powerful.
 
Cloud who was Once a Puppet and All Found out all these Secrets about himself,he Surpassed zack easily And Plus Comeon Crisicors's Zack special moves Suck he look like a Queer in every Move and Cloud- Knights of a Round+ Omnislash= Kills anyone
 
Ok here is my opinion Zack is really strong and so is Cloud but Cloud is the way he is because of Zack think about it cloud was like in a long sleep leaving zack to do all the fighting and because of zacks death cloud went on to become stronger for him think about it if zack did not die were would cloud be i zack did not die but still if he did not die cloud would not be here as he is

oh and plus even if cloud still went on to learn how to use a sword and zack was still alive think about it hard and tell me who would win my guess zack cause he had the more training same results if both use normal sword

Mod Edit: Please do not double post.
 
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final overlord said:
oh and plus even if cloud still went on to learn how to use a sword and zack was still alive think about it hard and tell me who would win my guess zack cause he had the more training same results if both use normal sword
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Ok then. Zack lands more blows on Cloud since he's more experienced. Cloud's limit gauge fills quicker. Cloud uses Omnislash. Zack realizes that there are indeed worse ways to die than being shot.
 
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Akamaru said:
Quoted for the Lulz.

Alright, alright, let's pick this apart then.

Cloud younger and Zack older? First of all, age doesn't mean jack, unless you expect Cid to be able to beat Sephiroth on his own. For all purposes, he's older. Even Red XIII is older than Sephiroth.

Cloud defeated Sephiroth multiple times, and yes he did come back. But you're quite underestimating the word "defeated" here. Most people on Earth in Final Fantasy VII would be extremely lucky to survive seeing Sephiroth, and Cloud defeated him 5 times, regardless of whether he came back or not. And no, Sephiroth didn't die when he fell into the Mako in Nibelheim Reactor.

And yes, that was indeed Sephiroth's real body. I don't even know what kind of theory you can be looking at by thinking it's not.
And yes, the Sephiroth in Final Fantasy Advent Children is real.

Let's also not forget that whereas Zack is by all means a great Warrior to have fought Sephiroth alone once and come out of it alive, but without any training whatsoever, Cloud also managed to pick up THE Buster Sword, sneak behind Sephiroth with it, and pierce him through and through. And let's not forget that Zack was SOLDIER. Cloud wasn't, and never even made it to SOLDIER, contrary to popular belief.
Also, it's pretty much official trivia that ShinRa operatives are NOT able to pick up and wield the Buster Sword. Cloud not only picks it up, he strikes Sephiroth with it. Again, most people wouldn't survive seeing him. Well, most people didn't.

Also, I cannot stress enough that Zack IS NOT THAT MUCH OLDER THAN CLOUD. There's really no use calling him "lucky" because luck had nothing to do with it. Honestly, with all due respect, you really don't even qualify as someone who can be sure of which of either are stronger because you, yourself said, that you haven't even finished Final Fantasy VII. And that ending pretty much puts shit down as to who the hell is indeed stronger.

And if we're gonna be picky about it then, tell me. Who's alive? And who's dead?

PS: It's Sephiroth. Not Seph.
Click to expand...

Yes Ive stated I havent even finished FF7 ever.
About the buster sword, I wasnt aware non soldiers could not even pick it up etc. So you have good arguements indeed, and thus maybe cloud was better however I posted me opinion, who are you to say whose qualified or not lmao, even though from my perspective (despite I havent finished ff7 yet) I am entitled to post my opinion here wether I finished ff7 or not.
We can read everything on zack and cloud on the internet as well, so there are many ways to check it out about etc. or am I wrong?

IMO and in my eyes I dont take Cloud in high regard, but when it comes to hardcore facts I have to agree with you. Cloud is the better man, you convinced me.

But you could have adressed me in a different tone, you act like it was a personal attack on your favo game of all time and you are treating me the same way.

The ps part is nothing but nonsense coming out of your mouth, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN WITH SEPH, even the poster above me used SEPH

LMAO for you.
 
true but remember that zack can use other moves too if you played game like he can copy sephs octoslash and other as well so he could maybe block or dodge omni slash
who knows there is a chance
 
Sephiroth, the best SOLDIER Shinra ever had as well as the guy who gave Zack a beating, was killed by Omnislash the very first time it was used against him. That level of power caught him off guard, and while he fended it off the second time (Advent Children Complete), Cloud merely surprised him with Omnislash Version 6 instead.

To our knowledge, Zack has never faced Omnislash. His best move is Octoslash (8 hits) while Cloud's limit has 15 hits (most powerful limit in the entire game). His facial expression before his death will that of surprise.
 
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