The_Oathkeeper
Why so serious?
Dreamer- Ahem...Sephiroth was just toying with Cloud, as stated by the creators. I just thought I'd get that out of the way early on. Anyway...
As of the end of Advent Children, I consider Cloud and Zack to be equals. That's one of the underlying themes of the Final Fantasy Compilation, if you pay attention to it. I really don't see either one being weaker or stronger than the other, simply considering how the two of them are portrayed and presented to us throughout the Compilation. It's a bit difficult to describe, but Cloud really seemed to have reached a certain plateau by the time Advent Children came around, if that makes any sense. I think this is one of those times where being the main character simply gives Cloud an advantage. By that I mean that one of the messages the creators were trying to portray was that Cloud had grown significantly since the beginning of Final Fantasy VII.
Throughout FFVII, Cloud constantly talks about having the strength of a 1st Class SOLDIER, but I don't really think he had the skill to back that statement up, at least not at the beginning of the game. In the first part of FFVII, I'd consider Cloud to be a bit stronger than the average 3rd Class SOLDIER. He fights well enough to make people think that he really was a member of SOLDIER at one point in time, but he definitely isn't as strong as Zack. Around the end of Disc 1 (or halfway through the game), I'd say that Cloud has the strength of a 2nd Class SOLDIER. He's bound to have gained a bit of skill with the blade, whereas he had to rely primarily on raw strength before due to his overall lack of experience with a sword.
Towards the end of the game, when Cloud "discovers" himself during his dip in the Lifestream, I'd say that's when Cloud finally gains the strength of a 1st Class SOLDIER. Remember, the one thing preventing him from getting into SOLDIER in the first place was the fact that he doubted himself. Physically, he qualified for SOLDIER, but the candidates must qualify physically and mentally to actually get in. It's like any athlete or soldier in real life; if their heads aren't in the game and they don't have confidence in their abilities, their performance will suffer. Once Cloud conquered the mental aspect of himself, he became a stronger fighter.
However, you also have to remember that Zack was above and beyond the average 1st Class SOLDIER. He wasn't just 1st Class material, he was well above that. He was, after all, described as the 2nd best SOLDIER after Sephiroth. In other words, if there were another level above 1st Class, that's where Zack and Seph would've been. So, while Cloud most certainly had come a long way by the end of FFVII, I'd say that he still fell a bit short of Zack. This guy was just something else. He took out a small army of ShinRa MPs and three SOLDIERS (all of whom had air support), proved himself superior to Angeal, defeated Genesis in his prime...Zack was definitely more impressive a fighter than any other normal 1st Class SOLDIER.
Even so, Nomura did say that Cloud had ascended to a higher level than he achieved at the end of FFVII during Advent Children. Towards the beginning of AC, I'd definitely say that he was significantly weaker due to Geostigma. Even so, once he lost the Stigma (and also his self-doubt), that's when I think he became Zack's equal. Cloud's growth as a person and as a combatant have just been such a large focal point of the Compilation, I don't really see how he could still be weaker than Zack, from a logical standpoint.
Realistically, though, there's no way of definitively proving who's stronger. The two have both done some impressive stuff in the past to the point where they're too close to compare without bias effecting the answer. That's my real reason for writing them off as equals. They're so very close that it's basically impossible to say which is stronger without sounding like a fanboy of one of them.
As of the end of Advent Children, I consider Cloud and Zack to be equals. That's one of the underlying themes of the Final Fantasy Compilation, if you pay attention to it. I really don't see either one being weaker or stronger than the other, simply considering how the two of them are portrayed and presented to us throughout the Compilation. It's a bit difficult to describe, but Cloud really seemed to have reached a certain plateau by the time Advent Children came around, if that makes any sense. I think this is one of those times where being the main character simply gives Cloud an advantage. By that I mean that one of the messages the creators were trying to portray was that Cloud had grown significantly since the beginning of Final Fantasy VII.
Throughout FFVII, Cloud constantly talks about having the strength of a 1st Class SOLDIER, but I don't really think he had the skill to back that statement up, at least not at the beginning of the game. In the first part of FFVII, I'd consider Cloud to be a bit stronger than the average 3rd Class SOLDIER. He fights well enough to make people think that he really was a member of SOLDIER at one point in time, but he definitely isn't as strong as Zack. Around the end of Disc 1 (or halfway through the game), I'd say that Cloud has the strength of a 2nd Class SOLDIER. He's bound to have gained a bit of skill with the blade, whereas he had to rely primarily on raw strength before due to his overall lack of experience with a sword.
Towards the end of the game, when Cloud "discovers" himself during his dip in the Lifestream, I'd say that's when Cloud finally gains the strength of a 1st Class SOLDIER. Remember, the one thing preventing him from getting into SOLDIER in the first place was the fact that he doubted himself. Physically, he qualified for SOLDIER, but the candidates must qualify physically and mentally to actually get in. It's like any athlete or soldier in real life; if their heads aren't in the game and they don't have confidence in their abilities, their performance will suffer. Once Cloud conquered the mental aspect of himself, he became a stronger fighter.
However, you also have to remember that Zack was above and beyond the average 1st Class SOLDIER. He wasn't just 1st Class material, he was well above that. He was, after all, described as the 2nd best SOLDIER after Sephiroth. In other words, if there were another level above 1st Class, that's where Zack and Seph would've been. So, while Cloud most certainly had come a long way by the end of FFVII, I'd say that he still fell a bit short of Zack. This guy was just something else. He took out a small army of ShinRa MPs and three SOLDIERS (all of whom had air support), proved himself superior to Angeal, defeated Genesis in his prime...Zack was definitely more impressive a fighter than any other normal 1st Class SOLDIER.
Even so, Nomura did say that Cloud had ascended to a higher level than he achieved at the end of FFVII during Advent Children. Towards the beginning of AC, I'd definitely say that he was significantly weaker due to Geostigma. Even so, once he lost the Stigma (and also his self-doubt), that's when I think he became Zack's equal. Cloud's growth as a person and as a combatant have just been such a large focal point of the Compilation, I don't really see how he could still be weaker than Zack, from a logical standpoint.
Realistically, though, there's no way of definitively proving who's stronger. The two have both done some impressive stuff in the past to the point where they're too close to compare without bias effecting the answer. That's my real reason for writing them off as equals. They're so very close that it's basically impossible to say which is stronger without sounding like a fanboy of one of them.
