Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[Harlequin]

Besides, Cloud feels responsible for getting Aerith into trouble in the first place -- because she went with him, she got caught.

Cloud didn't care about saving the world when Barret explained the situation to him during the bombing mission. He cared about getting paid.

Cloud didn't care about the heat brought on the inhabitants of the sector when he bombed the reactor. All he cared about was getting the job done.

Aeris get's captured... Cloud develops a guilt complex? Nah that just doesn't wash with me. Don't get me wrong I'm not denying CxT, but Aeris is getting some special treatment there. Why?

Also, they did it to hinder Shinra's plans for her. They're mission statement is to screw Shinra over whenever possible. Besides, Barret is the leader of the group still, and he says he owes it to rescue her because she saved Marlene. It's all there in the game.

So if Barret's ordering Cloud why doesn't Cloud charge him like the first mission?

 

[Six]

A person doesn't have to "care" for Aerith as a character to see that she's not in love with Zack anymore. She moved on. And she moved on to fall deeper in love with Cloud than she ever was with Zack, as stated by SE. The past relationship between Zack and Aerith is adorable, but it's still a first love... a first love in which Aerith moves on from.

There's no denying Aerith thought she was in love with Zack, but as stated more than once, she and Zack were never serious. That says a lot about their "relationship".

I never said that she was 'still' in love with Zack, though. However, we never actually see she 'doesn't love' him anymore either. If you mean how cold she acted in Maiden, we can kinda assume Aerith didn't know Zack died, that he had simply ignored her. I can completely understand why she'd be iffy with him, seeing as she moved on. I personally, don't believe that love is gone though, the ending of AC closes the book pretty well in my opinion.

Aerith walks back towards the Lifestream, with Zack, and Cloud's "I'm back." with Tifa and the others, pretty much establishes it, for me.

I really wish fans would stop making Aerith out like she's not in love with Cloud. It's as ridiculous as a fan claiming Tifa didn't love Cloud.

It's as ridiculous as saying Cloud doesn't love Tifa. However, I never said she wasn't in love with Cloud. Obviously, she has feelings for him. I just don't think that feeling is mutual.

Tifa was the reason Cloud wanted to prove himself to 'grow strong', as his childhood crush. It's... as ridiculous as making out Cloud doesn't still carry those feelings for Tifa, once again, these are your and my opinions.

That's just opinion, though. If that crush is called dim then that means it wasn't strong. And if Cloud carried that crush till the beginning of FFVII, why is he so cold to her, he surely isn't acting like she's the crush of his life, either.

The point of those quotes being provided were to show Cloud has an attraction towards Aerith. We've never had any of that from Cloud to Tifa. If Cloud's off saying all that romantic stuff to and about Aerith... it makes it really hard to believe that Cloud is crushing on Tifa. If he was, he shouldn't be taking notice to Aerith, let alone acting this way only to Aerith.

Cloud isn't exactly nice to anyone in the beginning of Final Fantasy VII. He hasn't seen her in years, and if you remember correctly, Tifa found him at the train station all messed up, remember? So, personally, I wouldn't expect him to be all fluffy duffy all up in her face. It would seem off.

However, pointing out him saying those quotes make it a romantic relationship, I don't agree with, but saying it's being attracted towards her as well, no one's denying that. Just because (in my point of view) he's in love with Tifa, it doesn't mean he didn't care deeply for Aerith. You as an opposite shipper, probably agree, just vice versa.

Let me just make clear that, if Cloud loves Tifa, it doesn't mean he couldn't have a great friendly/close relationship with another girl. That's not a crime, as long as your heart stays true to the one you love. ♥ Which... I personally don't see him making moves on Aerith.

That's again, opinion. Like all of this is, we need proof that he only cherished her as a friend. Cloud's guilt has NEVER EVER been said to be caused by him "realizing Zack and Aerith once were in puppy love." that is just something completely without basis. Nomura and SE has said multiple times, his guilt is from failing her and blaming himself for her death. Now, why would Cloud care so deeply? That's the question. Some say he does because she's his friend, but if that were true, why doesn't he act so heartbroken over Zack's death, why doesn't he blame himself for that? Why is he able to visit Zack's grave but can't seem to bear the idea of even stepping foot in the place where "he and Aerith were separated" (CoT quote)

Sorry, if Aerith was just another friend, he shouldn't be able to tell Sephiroth that his plan of killing the planet and its people didn't mean anything now that Aerith was dead. That's not something a friend does to another friend, especially when they're supposed "crush" is right behind them.

We need proof he cherished her as a lover, and the quotes provided, or the commercials, do not prove anything. Simply because there is no 'he loved her', in there, AGAIN, this goes for both CloudxTifa, and CloudxAerith, that's why I think claiming something is canon, is a bit ridiculous, 'cause there is no actual real answer. There's hints, but both pairings have those.

Why would he have to hide he's broken by the fact he failed to protect Aerith if the woman he loves is standing right behind him? Why should he hide his feelings? Wouldn't you feel crushed and broken apart if you failed to protect someone you grew so close to, and considered part of your team, your allies? =/ Sorry, but this is what makes Tifa such a great character, even though she feels uneasy with this, because she can't know how he means it, or how Cloud feels about Aerith, she still keeps her composure, and supports him, AND thanks Aerith, in Advent Children.

Wait? Where did you get that idea? The thing that makes Cloud able to "move on" or carry on with life is knowing that Aerith is with him. Only then can "his suffering in loneliness" come to an end, as stated by SE.

That's your opinion.

My take on it, is that, Cloud is able to move on as he has seen both Zack and Aerith, and they both support him with living life to the fullest, and chasing his dreams, finishing his childhood memories. Remember what the Little Cloud told you in the Lifestream?

That Tifa should tell him, "It'd probably make him so happy" was little Cloud's response.

I think Cloud is able to move on because he knows they don't blame him, he feels 'lighter' there's no more guilt. Aerith and co. finished and succeeded what they had to do, they saved the planet.

Why would Aerith tell him he's a little too big to adopt, if she's in over her ears about him? For me that was a cute, Zerith moment. (That's just 'cause I enjoy THAT pairing, and because I took it that way, because it's how it came over to me.)

Maiden and OTWTAS are canon, though

Like I said before, 8, 9, and X's commercials all portrayed their canon couple, why is that VII's commercial is supposedly the only one that is wrong... in three different countries no less. And can I have something from SE that says commercials don't mean something when in relation to VII?

Lol, then we can both agree both pairings are canon. OR, that there is no actual canon, pairing.

And, if that's all so canon to you, Cali... There was this page where Cloud and Tifa were shown, either in the Gondola, or under the Highwind, yet that seems irrelevant to the CloudxAerith supporters, even though all the canon couples were shown there?

With that remark I'm not saying that Cloud and Tifa ARE the canon couple, what I'm saying is, because of this, maybe there is no canon couple.

As I've said many times about the date, there's no canon if there's other options available. (Shrugs)

So once again; somebody paid for the ad to run; who else would do that beside...well, the company and producers that own the game? We can all agree that Final Fantasy VII is Square Enix's product, so who would PAY to advertise an item of someone else? And even more importantly, Square Enix felt the need to use Cloud and Aerith to make the game more appealing...? Whether or not its canon aside, they practically shoved Cloud x Aerith down people throats with the commercials, they used that specific pairing to make Final Fantasy VII attractive and to gain buyers.

Because it's tragic a character dies. We've never seen that happen the way it did in Final Fantasy VII, why else is it one of the highest rated FF's out there? Just because it makes a game more appealing in advertisement, it doesn't state Cloud loves her, or that she loves Cloud. However, we all know she does, we just can't say the same about Cloud.

And before I get the smile like a flower tossed at my head, save it please. I've read it multiple times, and I've given my reasons.

With all due respect, of course.

-

Also, Harlequin

Aeris get's captured... Cloud develops a guilt complex? Nah that just doesn't wash with me. Don't get me wrong I'm not denying CxT, but Aeris is getting some special treatment there. Why?

I think this is because, 1. He feels guilty that he failed to protect her. 2. He has the weight on his shoulders, that her adoptive mother asked him to leave during the night, and he got her mixed up in this still, so he failed her mother's wishes. 3. It's SHINRA. .....Yeah, I'd be pretty worried.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Saints&Storms]

You've just defined lust, not love.

So, when Cloud boinks Tifa on pointy rocks its "love" but when he's going after Aerith its...just lust

They went in for reasons not pertaining to any romantic interest. Cloud may be cool and badass, but he isn't without a soul. Besides, Cloud feels responsible for getting Aerith into trouble in the first place -- because she went with him, she got caught. Also, they did it to hinder Shinra's plans for her. They're mission statement is to screw Shinra over whenever possible. Additionally, Barret is the leader of the group still, and he says he owes it to rescue her because she saved Marlene. It's all there in the game.

So your calling it straight up business for Cloud going to save her? I don't think so, Cloud himself acted indifferently to Tifa; I mean not long after Tifa herself was kidnapped Cloud is ignoring both her and Barret only thinking of Aerith.

Tifa "...are you saying it's our fault? Because AVALANCHE was here? I
nnocent people lost their lives because of us?"
(Barret stands up and shakes his head.)

Barret "No, Tifa!"
"That ain't it! Hell no!!"
"It ain't us! It's the damn Shinra! It's never been nobody but
the Shinra!"
(Cloud steps back, facing away from Barret and Tifa. Barret faces away
and raises his arms.)

Barret "They're evil and destroyin' our planet just to..."
"build their power and line their own damn pockets with gold!"
"If we don't get rid of them, they're gonna kill this planet!"
(Barret turns around.)

Barret "Our fight ain't never gonna be over until we get rid of them!"
(Tifa shakes her head.)

Tifa "............I don't know."

Barret "What don't you know!? You don't believe me?"

Tifa "It's not that. I'm not sure about ... me. My feelings."
(Barret faces Cloud, whose back is still turned.)

Barret "An' what about you?"
(Cloud looks up, still not turning.)

Cloud "..........."
(He leaves the playground.)

Without so much of a "Goodbye", Cloud leaves, and Tifa was back there
having a pretty heartfelt and guilt ridden scene of her own, and it
appears Cloud couldn't give two shits less. Cloud Only had Aerith on his mind now
and he only had Aerith on his mind when Tifa was at the Dons.

And in regards to Aeriths kidnapping, he sound more than personally involved in her, he is willing to die going into
the Shin-Ra headquarters to save her, and says this when regards to what he wants;

Cloud: in Aerith’s house

If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means! ~ Cloud Strife, Dismantled.

Nope, don't see anything about giving a shit about Shin-Ra's plans for the future I mean after all what did he say when she died? "The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing." So, he can care more about Shin-Ra's plans. Also in regards to the Planet dying little by little "The only thing I care about is finishin' this job before security and the Roboguards come." and in regards to Shin-Ra itself;

『Cloud "Shut up!"
"I don't care about either Shinra or SOLDIER!"
"But don't get me wrong!"
"I don't care about AVALANCHE or the Planet for that matter!" 』

​

Barret said he'd come along as well because Aerith saved Marlene however
Cloud initially wanted to save Aerith alone, and initiated saving Aerith in the first place.
Also, Cloud wasn't getting paid to go save Aerith; Cloud was the one who wanted to save Aerith,
not AVALANCHE; I say this because AVALANCHE's objective is to screw Shin-Ra over,
Cloud doesn't share this objective; like he said He doesn't care about Shin-Ra or AVALANCHE

...just their cash.

Barret: "You gonna go help Aerith, right? She's done so much for me...."
"If it's the Shinra you're dealin' with, I can't just sit here!
I'm comin', too!"

Barret is coming along with Cloud...not the other way around.










Its all in the game ...but I am basically only repeating what Harlequin said...


​

 

[Dragon Mage]

So, when Cloud boinks Tifa on pointy rocks its "love" but when he's going after Aerith its...just lust

Whether or not they actually fucked each other is debatable. I, for one, don't think they did. But if that image makes your day, be my guest. Hell, why not have Cloud quietly rape Aerith when he stays at her house while you're at it too? As long as we're flinging around bullshit, right?

So your calling it straight up business for Cloud going to save her? I don't think so, Cloud himself acted indifferently to Tifa; I mean not long after Tifa herself was kidnapped Cloud is ignoring both her and Barret only thinking of Aerith.

Besides the pressing desperation he has to rescue Tifa the moment he sees her on the carriage?

Nevermind. Going up there served Cloud's own purposes. He said he wanted to get answers from the President. He wanted to return Aerith to her home. The two were incidental to each other.

This part doesn't have a whole lot of interpretation to it, Cali. It's explicitly stated WHY the went to go rescue Aerith. Several times, in fact. So there's not much interpretation to it. There's not much play to be had in this particular, narrow instance. Simple as that.

 

[The Witch]

Whether or not they actually fucked each other is debatable. I, for one, don't think they did. But if that image makes your day, be my guest. Hell, why not have Cloud quietly rape Aerith when he stays at her house while you're at it too? As long as we're flinging around bullshit, right?

Besides the pressing desperation he has to rescue Tifa the moment he sees her on the carriage?

Nevermind. Going up there served Cloud's own purposes. He said he wanted to get answers from the President. He wanted to return Aerith to her home. The two were incidental to each other.

This part doesn't have a whole lot of interpretation to it, Cali. It's explicitly stated WHY the went to go rescue Aerith. Several times, in fact. So there's not much interpretation to it. There's not much play to be had in this particular, narrow instance. Simple as that.

It's never stated. Cloud just says he has to by all means rescue Aerith. Never says why, in my opinion it's cuz Cloud was growing very very fond of her.


Also, you just ignored my last post. :/

 

[Dragon Mage]

Sorry, pages moved so quickly. I'll reply to it in full a bit later, it's a long post.

No, they actually did state why they were going to rescue Aerith. It's all there during the conversation after the collapse of the plate and later in Aerith's house.

 

[The Witch]

Sorry, pages moved so quickly. I'll reply to it in full a bit later, it's a long post.

No, they actually did state why they were going to rescue Aerith. It's all there during the conversation after the collapse of the plate and later in Aerith's house.

Lol, it's okay. Take your time.

Also, where is it stated, just post the quotes? I obviously don't know what you're talking about so I can't find it xD

 

[Harlequin]

[/COLOR][/FONT]I think this is because, 1. He feels guilty that he failed to protect her. 2. He has the weight on his shoulders, that her adoptive mother asked him to leave during the night, and he got her mixed up in this still, so he failed her mother's wishes. 3. It's SHINRA. .....Yeah, I'd be pretty worried.

Just my opinion though.

Yeah I agree on why he did it but what I don't get is him suddenly feeling this way about someone other than himself. The mercenary Cloud we knew in the beginning of the game wouldn't have concerned himself with such a daring mission unless the pay was astronomical... now he's not even getting paid? He might have done the same for Tifa, or any other of his friends, but I think it was telling that he was so ready to risk his life for Aeris.

I know her mother told him to leave, I know he might feel responsible, but we're talking about the same Cloud who (I dunno if it's optional or not don't come down too hard if it is) doesn't care about charging Barret into Marlene's school money, etc... Why would he care about who he puts in danger?

 

[The Witch]

It's not optional, Tom. It's forced if anything. And that's one of the things I wonder about too. Why would he care for someone if he, a day before, couldn't care less for anybody.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Whether or not they actually fucked each other is debatable. I, for one, don't think they did. But if that image makes your day, be my guest. Hell, why not have Cloud quietly rape Aerith when he stays at her house while you're at it too? As long as we're flinging around bullshit, right?

What with the tude?

Besides the pressing desperation he has to rescue Tifa the moment he sees her on the carriage?

Aerith "That girl in the cart was Tifa? Where was she going? She looked
kind of odd..."
(She hops down and chases the cart.)

Cloud:"Wait!"
"I'll go on alone! You go home!"
(She doesn't listen. She chases the carriage offscreen. Cloud shakes his
head and goes after her.)

Pressing desperation? The first thing that came out of his mouth was in concern for Aerith going after the carriage, not Tifa, then they dwindle the time away dressing Cloud up as a woman just so Aerith doesn't go in to the Don's Mansion alone.
​

​

Aerith
"Hey, this looks like the Don's mansion. I'll go take a look."
"I'll tell Tifa about you."

Cloud
"No!! You can't!!"

Aerith
"Why?"

Cloud
"You DO know... what kind of... place this is, don't you?"

Aerith
"Then, what am I supposed to do? You want to go in with me?"

Cloud
"Well being a man, that'll be pretty hard. Besides if I bust in
there, it'll cause too much commotion."

(Aerith is giggling.)

Cloud
"But, I just can't let you go in alone... Oh, man......"
"First, we'll need to find out if Tifa's alright...."
"What's so funny, Aerith?"

​

Nevermind. Going up there served Cloud's own purposes. He said he wanted to get answers from the President. He wanted to return Aerith to her home. The two were incidental to each other.

Cloud: in Aerith’s house

If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means! ~ Cloud Strife, Dismantled.

Where do you see anythin g about the President, I don't think you read the part where Cloud doesn't give a shit about Shin-Ra, AVALANCHE or the Planet. If that's all he wanted then why do they leave Midgar together? Cloud screwed over all chances of staying in Midgar just to save Aerith.

This part doesn't have a whole lot of interpretation to it, Cali. It's explicitly stated WHY the went to go rescue Aerith. Several times, in fact. So there's not much interpretation to it. There's not much play to be had in this particular, narrow instance. Simple as that.

You called me Cali xD

I know why, I have shown why, you however have been mistaken more than once, first you thought it was Clouds duty to AVALANCHE, then it was all Barrets plan etc. etc. it keeps changing.

Seeing as Cloud already got his payment, a date, and he keeps saving Aerith and insisting he's her Bodyguard, and states he doesn't give a shit about Shin-Ra, The Planet, AVALANCHE...I'd say yeah its not interpretable at all; he went to get Aerith or in his words he's taking her back Just like Nomura said; Aerith is dear to him, and like Tifa said Cloud and Aerith became close fast.

No, they actually did state why they were going to rescue Aerith. It's all there during the conversation after the collapse of the plate and later in Aerith's house.

Sorry, your wrong, Barret says he's going along with Cloud to repay his debt to Aerith, Tifa says she's going along with Cloud because she needs to push herself to the limits, all in all Cloud initiated going to save her first, its all there during the Playground scene and Aerith's origins scene.

Tifa
"You're going after Aerith, right?"

Cloud
"Yeah."

Tifa
"I'm going with you."

Cloud
"We're going right into Shinra headquarters. ...You gotta be
prepared for the worst."

Tifa
"I know."
"Right now, I feel I have to push myself to the limit."
-----
Barret
"Cloud!"

(Cloud turns.)

Barret
"You gonna go help Aerith, right? She's done so much for me...."
"If it's the Shinra you're dealin' with, I can't just sit here!
I'm comin', too!"
---

Cloud initiates and leads going into the Shin-Ra headquarters to save Aerith, seeing as both Barret and Tifa say they are going along with him that makes Cloud was the one who wanted to save her, and no Cloud doesn't state WHY he wants to save her, but he does however say this;
​

Cloud: in Aerith’s house

If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means! ~ Cloud Strife, Dismantled.

But I digress, like Cloud says; He doesn't care about AVALANCHE, Shin-Ra, or the destiny of the Planet. Just his cash...and Aerith.
​

 

[Dragon Mage]

Pressing desperation? The first thing that came out of his mouth was in concern for Aerith going after the carriage, not Tifa, then they dwindle the time away dressing Cloud up as a woman just so Aerith doesn't go in to the Don's Mansion alone.​

Thank you for your selective quoting. Quoting only where it suits your own needs is a neat trick, isn't it? Sadly, it does not work.

Where do you see anythin g about the President, I don't think you read the part where Cloud doesn't give a shit about Shin-Ra, AVALANCHE or the Planet. If that's all he wanted then why do they leave Midgar together? Cloud screwed over all chances of staying in Midgar just to save Aerith.


I know why, I have shown why, you however have been mistaken more than once, first you thought it was Clouds duty to AVALANCHE, then it was all Barrets plan etc. etc. it keeps changing.

Seeing as Cloud already got his payment, a date, and he keeps saving Aerith and insisting he's her Bodyguard, and states he doesn't give a shit about Shin-Ra, The Planet, AVALANCHE...I'd say yeah its not interpretable at all; he went to get Aerith or in his words he's taking her back Just like Nomura said; Aerith is dear to him, and like Tifa said Cloud and Aerith became close fast.

Oh, that's right, you wouldn't know, would you, since you just read the stuff that serves your purpose. In any case, it was a combination of all these factors that motivated them to rescue her. Besides the obvious fact that she's a main character so of course they must rescue her. As for why they all leave Midgar together is, as they say during the cutscene after the motorcycle minigame:

Barret: Well, what do we do now?

Cloud: Sephiroth is alive. I…I have to settle the score.

Barret: And that'll save the Planet?

Cloud: …Seems like it.

Barret: Awright, I'm going!

Aerith: I'll go too. …I have things that I want to find out.

Cloud: About the Ancients?

Aerith: ……Many things.

Tifa: I guess this's good bye, Midgar.

So, as you can see, there's a reason why they all left. Barret is mad, Cloud has a score to settle, Aerith wants to find out about some things, and Tifa has nowhere else to go. Simple.

Of course, you're never mistaken, are you? Oh my, what a humble and generous soul we have here, people! Look at him! Bow and scrape before his boots as he dispenses his unquestionable wisdom to us! /sarcasm

Please. Everyone makes mistakes, don't act like you are immune.

You called me Cali xD

No, I was speaking TO Cali. But whatever.

Also, where is it stated, just post the quotes? I obviously don't know what you're talking about so I can't find it xD

Here is where Barret expresses his debt and need to rescue Aerith

Barret: Marlene!! Aerith was caught because of Marlene!? I'm sorry. Marlene's
my daughter. I'm …really…sorry…

(later)

Barret: (to Cloud) Cloud! You gonna go help Aeris, right? She's done so much
for me… If it's the Shinra you're dealin' with, I can't just sit here! I'm
comin' too!

Tifa and Cloud discuss a little....

Tifa: You're going after Aerith, right?

Cloud: Yeah.

Tifa: I'm coming with you.

Cloud: We're going right to Shinra Headquarters. …You gotta be prepared for the
worst.

Tifa: I know. Right now, I feel I have to push myself to the limit. If I stayed
here…I'll go crazy.

Hmmm. You are correct, Calico. I am mistaken.... Cloud says he wants to talk to the President earlier. My bad. However, that's pretty much the reasons you're given for why they're going after Aerith -- Barret is still the leader, he has a debt to repay, and Cloud isn't going to argue since she got caught because she followed him anyway. It's his problem too. Does this hold romantic interest? I highly doubt. We all know how Cloud is about debts and failing his promises. The man just doesn't take to it very well at all. Why should this moment be any different?

And furthermore, I would like to add the interesting foreshadowing that this has: Cloud promised to protect Aerith, and fails. Later on, we discover that Cloud had promised to protect Tifa and fails. It's a theme for him. Interesting, but not really relevant.

In any case, when you get right down to it, this was how the writers justified them going after Aerith. in the large sense of things, a terrorist group doesn't care who gets hurt -- but Aerith is the exception because 1) They all feel guilty for the plate collapse, and 2) Barret personally is indebted to her. But the question of whether or not they were going after her was never really doubted at all -- they have to; she's a main character. This bit of motivation fluff was covering up the obvious, to be quite honest.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Thank you for your selective quoting. Quoting only where it suits your own needs is a neat trick, isn't it? Sadly, it does not work.

I was working off of a script I found on Google, inaccuracies are my bad, I hardly call it selective quoting though, eh, its your prerogative.

Touchy

My stance still stands though, despite my mistake, for caring about Aerith so little, he immediately switches his cares on to Aerith, while Tifa is in danger and wastes a few days just so Aerith doesn't get endangered.

Oh, that's right, you wouldn't know, would you, since you just read the stuff that serves your purpose. In any case, it was a combination of all these factors that motivated them to rescue her. Besides the obvious fact that she's a main character so of course they must rescue her. As for why they all leave Midgar together is, as they say during the cutscene after the motorcycle minigame:

You hung up on that aren't you?

A combination of all of them? Proof please, because honestly, thats your opinion. Because this isn't the case I say -- No, Cloud said from the moment he ignored Barret and Tifa in the Park, that he was going to save Aerith Barret and Tifa only stated they would come along after the visit to Elmyra --

Barret
"An' what about you?"

(Cloud looks up, still not turning.)

Cloud
"..........."
​

(Cloud leaves the playground.)

Barret
"Yo!"
"Where's he think he's goin'?"

Tifa
"Oh! Aerith!"

Barret
"Oh yeah, that girl. What's up with her?"

Tifa
"...I don't really know... But she's the one I left Marlene
with."
---


"Cloud!"
(He turns to see Barret and Tifa run up.)

Barret
"Take me to Marlene!"

Tifa
"You're going to help Aerith?"

Cloud
"Yeah.... But before that, there's something I want to know."
​

I'll say it again since you seem to have lacked the comprehension, Cloud was a one time paid Mercenary for AVALANCHE, he isn't a part of their group he has said that quite a few times, he only wanted the money, so no, Barret is not his leader; were this the case Barret would have initiated the mission to save Aerith, but Cloud did hence;

Tifa
"You're going after Aerith, right?"

Cloud
"Yeah."

Tifa
"I'm going with you."

Cloud
"We're going right into Shinra headquarters. ...You gotta be
prepared for the worst."

Tifa
"I know."
"Right now, I feel I have to push myself to the limit."
-----
Barret
"Cloud!"

(Cloud turns.)

Barret
"You gonna go help Aerith, right? She's done so much for me...."
"If it's the Shinra you're dealin' with, I can't just sit here!
I'm comin', too!"

So, as you can see, there's a reason why they all left. Barret is mad, Cloud has a score to settle, Aerith wants to find out about some things, and Tifa has nowhere else to go. Simple.

Of course, you're never mistaken, are you? Oh my, what a humble and generous soul we have here, people! Look at him! Bow and scrape before his boots as he dispenses his unquestionable wisdom to us! /sarcasm

Please. Everyone makes mistakes, don't act like you are immune.

Holy hell, he risked and lost all priveladge to stay in Midgar for Aerith and he only learned Sephiroth was alive AFTER risking his life to save Aerith, so I don't know what your trying to get at there. I know the reason they left, but I'll say it again; Cloud risked and lost it for Aerith.

So, lets clear up what we are talking about, since you seem to want to go off topic; Why did Cloud Go save Aerith?, Cloud went and initiated saving her, Barret and Tifa just came along.

You must have made that bold assumption yourself, man, Because I never said anything like that. But who am I to turn down a compliment. :3

Barret: Marlene!! Aerith was caught because of Marlene!? I'm sorry. Marlene's
my daughter. I'm …really…sorry…

(later)

Barret: (to Cloud) Cloud! You gonna go help Aeris, right? She's done so much
for me… If it's the Shinra you're dealin' with, I can't just sit here! I'm
comin' too!

Here is where Barret expresses his debt and need to rescue Aerith

Tifa: You're going after Aerith, right?

Cloud: Yeah.

Tifa: I'm coming with you.

Cloud: We're going right to Shinra Headquarters. …You gotta be prepared for the
worst.

Tifa: I know. Right now, I feel I have to push myself to the limit. If I stayed
here…I'll go crazy.

Tifa and Cloud discuss a little....

Copy pasta much? I already posted both of those quotes, none of which insinuate or clue to Barret initiating Aeriths rescue or declaring that he wants to go save her and that he's the leader, like I posted Tifa and Barret follow the leader; Cloud.

Hmmm. You are correct, Calico. I am mistaken.... Cloud says he wants to talk to the President earlier. My bad. However, that's pretty much the reasons you're given for why they're going after Aerith -- Barret is still the leader, he has a debt to repay, and Cloud isn't going to argue since she got caught because she followed him anyway. It's his problem too. Does this hold romantic interest? I highly doubt. We all know how Cloud is about debts and failing his promises. The man just doesn't take to it very well at all. Why should this moment be any different?

And furthermore, I would like to add the interesting foreshadowing that this has: Cloud promised to protect Aerith, and fails. Later on, we discover that Cloud had promised to protect Tifa and fails. It's a theme for him. Interesting, but not really relevant.

In any case, when you get right down to it, this was how the writers justified them going after Aerith. in the large sense of things, a terrorist group doesn't care who gets hurt -- but Aerith is the exception because 1) They all feel guilty for the plate collapse, and 2) Barret personally is indebted to her. But the question of whether or not they were going after her was never really doubted at all -- they have to; she's a main character. This bit of motivation fluff was covering up the obvious, to be quite honest.

Sorry dudette, Cloud initiates going to save Aerith back when Barret, Tifa and himself were in the Playground, and then in Aeriths House, Barret and Tifa ask him if he's going to save Aerith and then join HIM, not the other way around, I have already posted this a great many times. Barret is the leader of AVALANCHE a group which Cloud does NOT belong to but merely went on a mission with them in exchange for some deniro. So, once again I'll say it again, Cloud Strife initiates going to save Aerith, not Barret, not Tifa.

Your opinion. Keep it out of a debate. Because he was a cold jackass who didn't give a crap about the planet, AVALANCHE or anyone else before he met Aerith, and now he's risking his freedom and life for her.

Yeah, we all know how Cloud is about failing, but debts? C'mon now. Oh and about promises too, he forgets them. Yeah, we know you Cloud.

Aeriths paying Cloud in dates for his protections of her, its hardly promising but thats a romantic way to see it, and I'd like to add this; Cloud already got his payment but here he is insisting to go after Aerith at the cost of his life.

Once again, it doesn't matter what Bareet was going along with Cloud for, because Barret followed Clouds lead in going after Aerith, actually no, Cloud just allowed them to assist him. Because Cloud initiated going after Aerith. and quit with the "She's a main character, of-course they have to" we are talking on a character and story line basis not developmental base.

The question is WHY Cloud cared so much, not whether or not they would save Aerith, I am starting to see where your confusion is coming from. Like I posted before and will now post again; Cloud was the one Barret and Tifa asked if he was going to save Aerith not the reverse.

Before
In the Playground

Barret
"An' what about you?"

(Cloud looks up, still not turning.)

Cloud
"..........."
​

(Cloud leaves the playground.)

Barret
"Yo!"
"Where's he think he's goin'?"

Tifa
"Oh! Aerith!"

Barret
"Oh yeah, that girl. What's up with her?"

Tifa
"...I don't really know... But she's the one I left Marlene
with."
---

​

"Cloud!"
(He turns to see Barret and Tifa run up.)

Barret
"Take me to Marlene!"

Tifa
"You're going to help Aerith?"

Cloud
"Yeah.... But before that, there's something I want to know."

​

So, once again, Barret may be the leader of a group Cloud is not a Member of and doesn't care about, but he isn't the leader of Cloud, Cloud initiated saving Aerith Barret later on in Aeriths House, states he's coming along for the ride as well as Tifa. This is before Cloud learns that Sephiroth is still alive, before the plot thickens, before Aerith was kidnapped Cloud didn't give a shit therefore it was Clouds personal objective to go save her.

After
Later on in Aeriths House


Tifa
"You're going after Aerith, right?"

Cloud
"Yeah."

Tifa
"I'm going with you."

Cloud
"We're going right into Shinra headquarters. ...You gotta be
prepared for the worst."

Tifa
"I know."
"Right now, I feel I have to push myself to the limit."
-----
Barret
"Cloud!"

(Cloud turns.)

Barret
"You gonna go help Aerith, right? She's done so much for me...."
"If it's the Shinra you're dealin' with, I can't just sit here!
I'm comin', too!"

​

Firstly, Barret and Tifa care about everyone and the Planet, its just Cloud who up until he met Aerith didn't give a shit, Cloud didn't even speak a word of guilt toward the plate collapse. So, 1) Cloud caring for Aerith has nothing to do with the plate collapse 2) Barret comes along with Cloud 3) The developmental intentions don't really matter in a debate about inner characters and story-line.

Also, incase you still insist that Barret is commander of Cloud; I will post what Harlequin said again;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Also, they did it to hinder Shinra's plans for her. They're mission statement is to screw Shinra over whenever possible. Besides, Barret is the leader of the group still, and he says he owes it to rescue her because she saved Marlene. It's all there in the game.

So if Barret's ordering Cloud why doesn't Cloud charge him like the first mission?

 

[Ryotaken]

You guys do know that Cloud, at the time, was an estranged personality created to mimic Zack right? I mean, It's obvious he would've rescued Aerith, he was taking on the duty of continuing Zacks life, and that entailed protecting Aerith, whom Zack loved.

And that's ages before he even finds his real self.

Honestly, sounds like an entirely moot point discussing that. I mean, do you honestly think that if Tifa had been captured Cloud would be like: "Meh, screw her". Lol, of course not.

Personally, to me It's transparent that after Tifa pieces Cloud's mind again, he loves her. The Ultimania translation say their feelings matched and they disclosed that without words.

In AC, Cloud's overwhelmed by guilt and leaves his family because he couldn't cure Denzel and himself. In the end, he wasn't seeking Aerith's forgiveness, because Aerith assured him there was nothing to forgive, he was really trying to forgive himself.

Then AC/C ends, Cloud goes back to his familiy, takes a day off, Denzel has an interview with Reeve, and at some point Cloud takes him to Zack's grave.

The End.

(until Genesis's crappy sequel is made)

 

[Saints&Storms]

Page 156, the marked part
“So you won’t have a breakdown..”
Aerith appears in Cloud’s dream, she seems to console him with such advice. This line can infer that Aerith has seen through the essence of Cloud.

No, Ryotaken, I am pleased to be able to say that Cloud taking on Zacks outward persona while having his true self come through as well, still, does not affect his inward feelings about others around him. No where in the Game or Ultimania's is it said that Clouds feelings are Zacks feelings only that his persona is influenced by the Jenova Cells to take on Zacks life/persona etc.; which is an outward thing, affecting how others see him not how he sees or feels about other, in this case Aerith.

Cloud didn't save Aerith because its what Zack felt or would have done, because; Cloud took on pieces of Zackz personality; not his feelings.

Page120, the marked one
The fortune telling with deep meaning.
Cait Sith’s divination about the direction toward Sephiroth turns out three consequences. Disregard the previous two, the noticeable one is the third result which becomes the chance for him to follow the party—“What you’re looking for would be yours, but you’ll lose something very dear.”
As the storyline moves on to the event of Forgotten City, the “something very dear” can be read as losing Aerith, and it also hint the event of Cloud’s reaching his self breakdown when the story goes to the Northern Crater.
​

Not only is Aerith "very dear" to Cloud but Aerith has seen through to the real Cloud and grows to love him for his true self and as put in her Dismantled Profile "Undoubtedly much more than Zack". And on the note of Cloud not having his own feelings for her; this doesn't make sense because no where is it ever stated that his feelings are not his own, only that his persona was influenced by the Jenova cells, and that's all.

Page 180, the marked part
The origin of the saying “Not interests.”
"In the scene when the young Cloud explains his mental state by saying “I used to think people around me are foolish”, surprisingly, he shows the posture of shrugging his shoulders. If we consider this, the part of his coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting “Not interests” all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells, they belong to the real Cloud’s personality."
​

Cloud finding his "true self" didn't happen ages after he meets Aerith, possibly a few months or weeks if we go by the Ultimania's and to what effect this has on Aeriths Feelings for Cloud and Clouds feelings for Aerith is unseen by me.

But even despite this; we have more proof that Cloud "true self" or full self rather feels for Aerith; going on to say he remembers and thinks of her a lot, fighting Sephiroth to unfreeze her smile above all else and having an undying feeling for her all his own/contrast to that her comrades carried.

Nomura Check in Playstation Magazine:
It's a piece of magazine report from 電撃PlayStation Vol.385, 386, 387, titled "DESIGNER'S NOTE

"Nomura : I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day... It's relations with this church scene is... Yup. I'll leave this part to your imagination. (Laughs)"

And in one of the latest Novella's; Case of Lifestream White, a novella basically for Aerith; SE had this to be said for what the two of them are together and to eachother;

Case of Lifestream; White
Cloud is the woman's friend, lover---he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect.

クラウドは女の友人であり、恋人であり——大切なものの象徴であり、守るべき存在だった。

---
​

None of us ever said he wouldn't go save Tifa as well; just because we said he did it for Aerith, doesn't mean we said that he'd leave Tifa to die; he just so happens to have had a striving need to save a girl he knew for little under a week from a filthy rich and powerful company after which he refused to save the planet from with AVALANCHE and Tifa -- despite practically being begged to.

Funny you mention that "feelings matching" thing, because not only does that page also have Cloud and Aerith on a date on it but the picture it is capped to is of the morning after when what Cloud and Tifa agree on is that that day will never come again >.>



Cloud wasn't seeking Aeriths forgiveness in AC, eh? If Cloud only leaves for your listed reasons then why is it in Case of Tifa, Cloud is already living in Aeriths Church, calling it "his place" and never calling Tifa, Pre-Geostigma? No doubt Aerith already forgave him but he couldn't accept it when he blamed himself, so he was still seeking her forgiveness. Hence him saying "I want forgiveness...hm...more then anything"

In the end Cloud finally stops suffering in lonliness, gets what he wanted most/Aeriths forgiveness, found his Promised Land in Aeriths Church and goes on in DoC to have Aerith engraved in his Heart for eternity/he'll never forget...and of course be with his family and friends.

But I like how it was officially summed up as well.

FFVII 10th Anniversary Ult. AC Playback. (revised edition)
The place where he awakens---
That is Cloud's Promised Land

As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn't belong here yet.

When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma-- his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realises where he is meant to live. He realises that he was able to forgive himself.

And when he turns around--- "she" is starting to leave. Together with the friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness... And so they too go back to where they belong.

Back to the current of life flowing around the planet---.
​

 

[Ryotaken]

Oh dear god, I'm not responding to that wall of text. It was my opinion that Cloud and Tifa do disclose love to each other in the highwind based on what I read, I'm not here to discuss that.

What I was pointing out is that Cloud choosing to save Aerith dosen't mean he "wuvs" the girl. He'd do the same thing for Tifa, or even Yuffie in that position.

Btw, you should give credit to the text(authors words) not the images.

Text under the Aerith picture said Cloud went out on a date with someone.

Text under the highwind picture said Cloud and Tifa confirmed without words they're feelings matched.

Now, I don't need anymore evidence to know Cloud/Tifa love each other. Not to say that Cloud dosen't love Aerith she's a very close person to him, like when she appeared in the flash-backs Cloud had when Seph questioned what he cherished most. Might even have loved her to a certain degree.

So, yea, I'm just pointing out that him recuing Aerith dosen't mean any romantic affections, like you guys are trying to pass along.

 

[Terra Branford]

Oh dear god, I'm not responding to that wall of text. It was my opinion that Cloud and Tifa do disclose love to each other in the highwind based on what I read, I'm not here to discuss that.

What I was pointing out is that Cloud choosing to save Aerith dosen't mean he "wuvs" the girl. He'd do the same thing for Tifa, or even Yuffie in that position.

Well its a good thing this a debate thread not an opinion thread then, right...? If you aren't here to "discuss" that issue, why are you in a debate thread? To me it makes no sense. >.<

Btw, you should give credit to the text(authors words) not the images.

Text under the Aerith picture said Cloud went out on a date with someone.

A date is something romantic, hence "date". Yet the Highwind scene never states they confirm love for each other, so I have no idea where you pulled that absurdity from...

Mind sharing the part where it says they confirm they love each other instead of them confirming a mutual feeling?

Text under the highwind picture said Cloud and Tifa confirmed without words they're feelings matched.

Now, I don't need anymore evidence to know Cloud/Tifa love each other. Not to say that Cloud dosen't love Aerith she's a very close person to him, like when she appeared in the flash-backs Cloud had when Seph questioned what he cherished most. Might even have loved her to a certain degree.

And? I confirm mutual feelings with friends all the time. You shouldn't assume they love each other over that, its not a strong point to make for their love.

I know I would appreciated it if you posted more evidence because frankly, text saying two people confirmed a feeling that was mutual means nothing romantic.

So, yea, I'm just pointing out that him recuing Aerith dosen't mean any romantic affections, like you guys are trying to pass along.

And agreeing on feelings -- not stated as love but is continued to be assumed to be -- is romantic?

Lastly, it is extremely rude to come in here and reply to people's points and then refuse to reply to posts they spent time on to reply back to you. Its disrespectful to come in, reply to them and their posts, claim it wrong, and then they reply to you and then you refuse to answer them. This is a debate thread, not a cherrypicking opinion thread.

Also an opinion is a view/belief with insufficient evidence to confirm that that opinion, is in complete certainty.

 

[Ryotaken]

We don't know who went with him on that date actually, text dosen't exemplify.

Well It was on the "For The One I Love" page.

And we all know Tifa's feelings towrds Cloud.

So pretty much. That's a pretty big implication.

And c'mon, you'd be to be trying to actually deny the implications of that one page.

Edit: Actually, I think I'm not qualified enough to debate this since there are people with much deeper knowledge of the material to do so.

I'd just be repeating the arguments from these two pages:

http://thelifestream.net/compilatio...gle-of-ffvii-an-analysis-by-squall_of_seed/2/

http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...9/this-just-in-the-love-triangle-debate-over/

Which convinced me of my opinion. So yea, I think better people have done the job, so I'm out

 

[Saints&Storms]

Oh dear god, I'm not responding to that wall of text. It was my opinion that Cloud and Tifa do disclose love to each other in the highwind based on what I read, I'm not here to discuss that.

What I was pointing out is that Cloud choosing to save Aerith dosen't mean he "wuvs" the girl. He'd do the same thing for Tifa, or even Yuffie in that position.

Btw, you should give credit to the text(authors words) not the images.

Text under the Aerith picture said Cloud went out on a date with someone.

Text under the highwind picture said Cloud and Tifa confirmed without words they're feelings matched.

Now, I don't need anymore evidence to know Cloud/Tifa love each other. Not to say that Cloud dosen't love Aerith she's a very close person to him, like when she appeared in the flash-backs Cloud had when Seph questioned what he cherished most. Might even have loved her to a certain degree.

So, yea, I'm just pointing out that him recusing Aerith dosen't mean any romantic affections, like you guys are trying to pass along.

First off that's rude, secondly; This is a "Love Triangle Debate Thread"; not a "come and tell us who you ship thread", you came into the thread saying Cloud was Zack and that he only saved Aerith based on Zacks feelings yada yada, not simply saying your opinion.

I know what you were pointing out and you were wrong about it too, because Cloud was Cloud with his ONW feelings and Aerith knows the real him.

I am showing where the quotes come from, hence the due credit, if you need more than that I can get it for you.

I already told you the picture and the caption for that Highwind Scene of Cloud and Tifa is the next morning, when they agree they will never have a calm day again, nothing more.

Lets see...Cloud and Aeriths Date in the City of Desire that ends Magically or a Cloud and Tifa's morning on pointy rocks with a feeling that matched... Kind of sells itself.

He barely knew the woman You don't risk your own life several times for anyone you just meet. And to be exactly precise, he only cared when Yuffie was captured because his materia was endanger as well, what was that about him doing it for anyone?

We never said he loved her at that time but he was definitely attracted to her and growing close to her abnormally fast and he was willing to fight Shin-Ra after refusing to without a fee for Tifa, for Aerith -- no doubt in his mind. His attraction to her is backed up not only by his actions but his words in Dismantled: Enjoying her smile, calling her eyes innocent and impressive.

If you didn't need more evidence for C/T you wouldn't have even come into this thread in the first place, but you likely won't read this either, so see ya and good-luck.

I don't need any more proof either seeing as the Original commercial calls them a "Love" and the Case of Lifestream: White calls Cloud Aeriths lover; that's not only more straight forward that "Feelings that match" but actually mentions love as well.

On the canon date though; I have to say just read this and you'll know the answer, but you probably won't read it as well as the other things I said; http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/showpost.php?p=747027&postcount=57

But to cut to the chase;

Nomura in FFVII Dismantled Caption in Picture:
1. In Aerith’s case, if you play the game normally, the partner that generally comes will be Aerith.
2. In the gondola, the line “I’m searching for you” has deep meaning. (you understand, right?)
3. In Tifa’s case, her prudent personality has no luck*, because she can’t tell him the bottom line.
4. In the end, she didn’t say it, and tucked it inside her mind.​

 

[Terra Branford]

Do we all know? Or is it biased opinion on situations just to couple them together? I'm not sure where the opinion and fact separates in this thread anymore.

There is no evidence to back Tifa's (romantic) love for Cloud, at least not thus far that I have seen. What I have been given are extremely unromantic situations interpreted as such when the context clearly states its not. I have seen Tifa's crush on Cloud and I have seen the crush Cloud had on Tifa as a kid -- but children grow up, especially when that crush doesn't even notice you are alive.

Of course Tifa and Aerith love Cloud, but each have a different love. I have never seen any sign or statement of Tifa's "romantic" love of Cloud. I have seen her express her motherly love for him, which has been stated by her own character. Aerith expressed her romantic love to Cloud and described it being stronger than it was for Zack. And I have seen unquestionable pain, grief and love expressed by Cloud whenever, basically, Aerith is mentioned or remembered.

And c'mon, you'd be to be trying to actually deny the implications of that one page.

I say again -- what implications? What I saw was something completely different than what you saw. I never read the words "mutual love" nor "romantic feelings". I read that they agreed on what they feel for each, but I never once saw anything saying they agree they love each other romantically.

Quoting Lifestream as a source for this debate doesn't help nor does it make the interpretation of that page correct.

 

[Ryotaken]

Jesus, I'm not here to debate, just stating opinion

I sitated my opinion that him saving Aerith is part of Zack's personality: not anything romantic.

I stated another opinion that Cloud and Tifa love each other, based on an author's word.

Isn't what these thread are for? To, you know, talk about opinions? Since this discussion has been done, what-alot.

Like I said, there are people who know far more than me and have already made any argument I might plagiarize.