Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[The Witch]

About the advertisements, you have never seen any advertisement in your whole life that has not exaggerated qualities of a product to sell it. Advertisements are always honest. It must be it...

Was VIII, IX, X's commercials lying? No D: Then that's all that matters. Do you have anything from Square Enix stating commercials cannot be used or that they are not reliable? Again, no. It's kinda funny, you say everything is left to interpretation so it can't be used, but here you are using your opinion to determine whether or not the commercials can be used. Watch out bro, that's a little wishy-washy. D:

If your opinion was truth, then you could say Cloud's reaction proves he loved Aerith in a romantic way. In many people's opinions, it doesn't prove. As long as you use your personal opinion as an argument, it will be worthless. It doesn't change a thing that three or four of your friends back your opinion. It is still just an opinion.

I'm not using my opinion, bro. It is not MY opinion when I take the commercials saying Cloud and Aerith are a story of love and I literally take it to mean that. That's me taking Square Enix's words at face value. My opinion has nothing to do with anything. If you think it's a biased statement about Cloud and Aerith take it up with Square Enix and Nomura... they're the people that said it, not me.

You are very disrespectful too. And through the whole thread, with many, many people. It is not my fault that I pointed an error of logic in one part of a comment and a whole horde of people started attacking me personally. No one answered directly my argument. You all keep attacking aimlessly anyone who doesn't say Cloud X Aerith isthe only acceptable interpretation. You are acting foolishly because I have not even said your opinion that Cloud x Aerith is not valid, I am just telling something obvious: nothing in the game makes your opinion the only one valid. If it was so, there wouldn't be all that silly war between "Clotis" and "Cleriths".

Seriously? I am? I'm disrespectful. I'm sorry, dude. Where did I disrespect you, I'll happily apologize. I'm attacking people? This is a debate thread. No one's attacking anyone. I'm attacking arguments, not people. How can it be many people, I think there's only two or three C/T fans in here, right? :/

Everyone is answering your "arguments" but dude, they're not arguments, it's you saying things are our opinion. You've yet to provide any evidence against or for either pairing.

Acting foolishly? Riiiight. Sure, what ever, dude.

Again, I am not, and never will claim my "opinion" is more valid than anybody else. All I'm doing and all I've ever been doing is providing evidence and having people tell me obvious facts aren't meaning what they mean. That's like a C/T kiss scene existing and I claim it's Cloud preforming CPR rather than taking her in some romantic embrace. See how whack that is, man?

I think it would be more useful just to acknowledge that there may me different opinions instead of mass attacking everybody that disagrees. Forum-wise, this thread is really sad.

Then leave if you don't like it. If you stop arguing against us this thread will undoubtedly die. :/

I really hate when people bring this up (Just so you know, I don't support CloudxAerith or CloudxTifa)

Of course Cloud is going to cry over his friend's death! I don't see why people keep bringing this up. None of his other friends died in the game for you to even compare his grief to.

Um, yes there is. When Cloud thought Tifa was a "goner" did he break down or have his heart shatter? No.

He could have cried more if Tifa died, he could have cried more if Barrett died, you don't know that so you can't compare this scene to anything or say it means love! Everyone cries when someone close to them dies (unless you're heartless)

I just did. He didn't do half the stuff he did for Aerith to Tifa when he thought she was dying, did he? No.

Instead, it's Aerith's death that broke his heart and it's Aerith's death that made him say Sephiroth's plan to kill the world and its people didn't mean crap now that Aerith was dead.

If Cloud would have treated anyone else the same way as he did with Aerith when she died, why in the heck would Cloud say during her death that it was her death that made him not give two craps whether or not the world died now? If he would treat them the same as her if they died, then he sure as hell shouldn't be throwing their lives aside when she all of a sudden dies.

He was practically throwing their lives away after she died. Again, if Cloud's heartbreak would be the same for the rest of his friends, why is it he can so boldly say to Sephiroth that his plan to destroy the world and its people didn't mean anything now that Aerith was gone?

That right there proves he felt more love for Aerith than anyone else on their planet. Otherwise if he didn't, he wouldn't be throwing their lives away so easily just at her death, would he?

He cried because his friend died. He cried because he probably blamed himself. It was obvious he was closer to Aerith than any of the others were close to her, but that doesn't mean he wasn't also very close to Tifa and if she were to die he would he would probably cry just as much.

Crying over a friends death in such a circumstance does not = Love or romance in the slightest D:

I just wanted to put that out there.

THAT is all mere opinion. Like I said above, Cloud didn't treat Tifa or Zack the same way as he did with Aerith when she died. So, I actually have a foundation behind my statements. We've literally seen Cloud act much much much more differently over Aerith's death than he did with Tifa when he thought she was dying or over Zack. So, the burden of proof is among you now.

Mind providing quotes or scene references saying Cloud would treat Tifa or anyone else the same as he did with Aerith?

Also wasn't he still 'Zack' at that time? (I can't quite remember)

No. He was never Zack. in the first place. That's just some weird thing fans spread around with no basis behind it in any such way.

 

[Terra Branford]

@Terra Branford

It was harder on him that she died because he was closest to her obviously, we all go that much from the game I am sure but that doesn't say how he would react if any of his other friends were to die.
Also like I said, he probably blamed himself. I would cry a lot more than anyone else if i was the reason for a friends death.

Also wasn't he still 'Zack' at that time? (I can't quite remember)

Feeling more attached to her (closer)? Shouldn't that be seen as it is? Combine this obvious (as you said

) attachment greater than the others to everything else like the quotes we provided, the examples, the other games, the books, the creator quotes, the movies and everything else we listed...doesn't that paint a picture much greater than just friendship?

And I don't believe it was Zack at that specif time. And I don't think he was ever "Zack" besides him taking his job position and his Sephiroth relationship. I've never really seen anything to suggest he was "Zack" in all the senses it suggests.

(If) Even if they were identical to the core and whatnot, why would Aerith separate the feeling between the two? Doesn't that also mean that she loved Cloud (which she admitted the feeling) and not Zack? And that she knew the "real" Cloud and loved the "real" Cloud...?

EDIT:
Grammar xD

 

[tilinelson2]

No, I think you are mixing up definitions. An opinion of the statement you made would be; "I didn't see any romantic interaction between in the game!" The difference is that you presented this "opinion" as a statement, something that is true and official. I will repeat your "statement" (not opinion):

If you had meant it to be an "opinion" you would have said it that way, instead you said it as a statement of truth, as if it was official. I didn't see an opinion on the matter. What I saw was the opposite; a statement of what it is. Can you have your own opinion? Of course, I'm not stopping you nor am I making you stay here to express your opinion. Did you phrase your statement into an "opinion"? No...no you didn't.

That is biased.

I'll not comment about your drama. Everything a person says in a dicussion is his own opinion. You are just avoiding the debate.

Not really. Interpretation is not up for you to decide of another person's creation unless strictly told to do so. You can say it, yes, but it doesn't make it true.

Tsk tsk, I never stated through this entire debate which I believe to be "teh canonz" couple, nor have I hinted toward any particular pairing to be standing for. What I have done was ask questions, state facts (not opinions) and debated how one thing could be told isn't canon or shouldn't be used simply because a side doesn't want it to be used.

People generally don't date a single person twice if they don't feel anything for that person (before you say it, friends don't go out on romantic dates on some stupid roller-coaster thing or in a park) nor do they treat a person the way Cloud/Aerith does to Aerith/Cloud.

How could "But I'm..." not be romantic? Do you know of what he was about to say? Just because he didn't verbally continue and finish his sentence of "But I'm here for you" doesn't mean he didn't feel it.

Compare the grief Cloud feels about Aerith's death to that of say, Tifa or Yuffie's grief. Much, much different. Yet the furthest we get out of this discussion is "well, Cloud was Aerith's friend".

If this is so, why is it that her death was the hardest on him? Why is that her death made this man cry -- who according to some Cloti views was just a "friend" -- but no other "friend" of Aerith's reacted to her death the way Cloud did (what he said, crying -- all that jazz)? How is it that the only other person who cried (I believe?) was Yuffie, a young woman (teenager)?

Yet all of Aerith's "friends" felt this grief but the creators singled Cloud out just to bawl his eyes out, feel the great lost of never seeing her eyes/smile or hearing her voice again etc etc. Did the creators just single him out...just because?

Illogical.

Your opinion again. Why can't a person date another twice without loving this person? People even marry on these grounds. You are being illogical here.

So you know what Cloud had in mind but didn't say. And this is not opinion. Very strong argument.

Just because Cloud was the lead character of the game and only he got words in that scene doesn't say a thing. Besides that, nothing he says makes it obvious enough about his feelings. It is only your opinion on the scene. Come on, you didn't come with any arguments.

I didn't change any focus, though I see the game being played here.
I already gave examples of their love through my last post and all my other posts here. Short of that, I would have to play FF7 and record the entire play-through and post it here. You wish to see the evidence to this as otherwise, aka, as "non-romantic interaction".

Now it is your turn in the debate; give me the evidence that supports the conclusion that Cloud and Aerith didn't love each other or had any romantic interaction in the game. You decided to bring this statement up, back it or simply don't bring it up. That is how debates work. Simple as that.

Evidence is that Cloud never says he loved Aerith in a romantic way and she doesn't say she loved Cloud in a romantic way. Check your playthrough. You are allowed to think he did, but to say it is proven by the game, you never proved with any of your arguments, so you first need to do so. Logic is that, baby.

Oh...so you are personally attacking me then? And I'm the disrespectful, naive, far-fetched, silly, ridiculous person in the thread? Exactly what have I done to win such heated feelings from you other than disagree with you? That qualifies as "disrespectful" to you?

I didn't force anything down anyone's throat. Show me where I have tried to force something down someone's throat. I have done the exact opposite, actually. I want to know why the Clotis see what I brought up the way they do. If debating and disagreeing with you makes you think the person is disrespect I don't think you should be in this debate because that same thing will continue to happen.

Again, you twist my words. You want to place yourself in the position of a victim, but you disrespected me. You are saying that pointing you disrespected me is an attack. Then you pick words from a whole text and take them out of context to say that I used them against you. This IS RIDICULOUS (and the way you work with your fallacy, you will say that I'm saying you are ridiculous, but everybody knows that ridiculous is refering to your illogical argument).

Now you attack me again in stating that I feel insulted just because people disagreed with me, but it was you that insulted me when I disagreed with you. Funny, isn't it?

My insults? Seriously...? Your allegations are getting worse, Tilinelson. I have never insulted you or anyone in this thread. Though you have to me...I didn't twist anything you said. Seriously Tilinelson, where is this all coming from...? Did you honestly say all of this against me simply because I disagree?

What question have you asked me other than accusing me of things I haven't done? :/

It doesn't matter what you say. If Bin Laden said he was not a terrorist, but a humanist, that would make him a humanist? You insulted me and you attacked personally many times the author of the posts, instead of their argument. You are victimizing yourself like Bin Laden said he was being persecuted for being muslin. If there is something you really are is unfair. Tone down your ego.

We have answered you. You took it as an attack. No one here is attacking you, tilinelson2, we are just answering your posts with reasons/evidence/videos/quotes/commercials etc etc. No one is attacking you. The only person who has been insulting thus far has been you...

If you mean me saying "you must have played--" is an insult, please don't take it as such. I explained what I meant by it and if that is what you feel is the insult, then I offer my humble apology. That was not my intention with it and I never thought it would be taken as such....

I would like this debate to be actually contributing something. So instead of accusing me of actions I haven't done, stay to the topic please Until then, I think it best we don't continue our discussions...

You insulted me first and then the "Clerith gang" just came and insulted me further. No reasons/evidence/quotes were presented to discredit my statement that were not personal opinions or things that didn't apply to the context. Of course you will post an answer because I've followed this thread enough to know you will always answer, mostly twisting the meaning of the posts, as if posting last would mean you won the discussion. Anyway, I have nothing to add to the discussion itself till you show a real proof that the game script contains a line like "Cloud really loved Aerith." or something like that.

 

[The Witch]

@tilinelson2, I used my time to write up a reply to you. Could you at least warn me when you'll ignore what I've said.

Well, there is the fact that Tifa isn't dead. Why would he speak about Tifa's smile or laugh or eyes? She's right there in the room with him. There's no reason for him to really bring it up, unless he's feeling particularly randy or something. I'm sure he'd be just as remorseful if Tifa died and Aerith lived (for whatever reason).

Again, I see SE at work -- they're describing the personal loss of a character in order for the player to gain empathy for that character, and increase the hate toward the villain. I know this technique -- I've used it myself in my writing. It really works a treat!

Well, I wouldn't be too certain about this. From my objective viewpoint, and with my host of writing techniques, I see this as the creators merely describing what Aerith is like to the player. This is necessary considering the limitations of the graphics at the time. While Yuna could look plenty pretty and innocent, we only had a blocky, unemotive face to try and see that in Aerith. So, characters need to be described by other characters out loud.

I can prove this! Aerith does the exact same thing when asking Cloud about his glowing eyes. We can't see he's got glowing eyes. There's no way that's ever indicated in the game. If it weren't for the text -- if it weren't for Aerith actually describing him out loud -- we wouldn't know. So, it was necessary for Aerith to say it so that we would know.

Also, it's really easy to make a character look like a asshole right from the get go, but something more complex like innocence is harder. Apparently, the guys at SE really wanted to hammer that in, so they made other characters comment on that particular aspect of Aerith.

Sorry, I just have to say one thing to this post.

If I told you you have a nice avatar and I liked your post, would that count as character development for you?

No. It might possibly be development for me as it says what I like. Which if we were to apply back to the source, we're not getting development for Aerith. We're getting development for Cloud, as what we're seeing explains what HE likes and feels. ... which in this case is Aerith.

 

[Amne]

I don't think Cloud was in the right mind set to be in love with anyone in the game. Cloud is a little crazy so I thought Cloud saw himself as Zack for some time so maybe Zack told Colud about Aerith and he just thought he had feelings for her... or he was trying to make Zack's feelings live on. That what I was thinking when it comes to Cloud and Aerith. Also I think he felt he killed Aerith she was his friend and he was ment to be looking after her. But I feel that he never had real feelings for her over then friendship that was his own. It is all about Zack and Aerith and they walk off together at the end of AC.

In FFVII:AC I know it is never said but I got the feeling that Tifa and Cloud where already together. Before AC they where living together they have photos of them two and the kids. I really thought they where a couple.

 

[Six]

I feel the same way, Amne. Personally, I never cared for Aerith's character individually, but I think the relationship portrayed with her and Zack is gorgeous. I never played Crisis Core, but reading about it, and seeing them interact, is just so sad. Was a really deserved relationship, and you could really see Zack cared for her, as did Aerith for zack, her 23 tiny wishes, put in to one, that she wanted to spend more time with him. ♥

As far as Tifa and Cloud go, I think these two have been through so much together, that even with taking in to consideration that Cloud might have said things about Aerith's smile, and the likes, I don't think it's possible to beat your childhood crush, that is still fighting along your side even after all these years.

I am not denying Cloud didn't love Aerith, but I think he loved her for who she was, and he cherished having her as a friend. When playing Final Fantasy VII, this is how it came over to me. I think during FF: VII, and onwards, Cloud realized Zack and her were 'involved', and I think it fuelled his guilt as well. He promised to protect her along the way, he promised Zack he'd be his living legacy, but as we all know, Cloud is a different person, and he isn't Zack.

I think Advent Children portrayed guilt on Cloud just right, you can see that, knowing Aerith is in good hands, and knowing he is where he wants to be, he realizes he can move on without having to feel guilty. He can give 'life' and the people around him, his all basically. That is why I think Tifa and Cloud are such a gorgeous couple, and why Tifa is the actual love interest.

They're gorgeous. I don't think I've ever loved a pairing more.

And, just a little note on the advertisement... Just because Square Enix gives the OK, it doesn't mean it's canon. That would make On The Way To A Smile: Case of Tifa, canon, as well as Maiden. They were only OK-ed, for commercial use. Advertisement that interests both sides. I think the commercial itself is really attention grabbing, but just because it's stated there's a love that can never be, and because it was okayed by Square Enix, it doesn't make it the 'canon' of all 'canons'.

That's just my opinion, my two cents, really.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Sorry, I just have to say one thing to this post.

If I told you you have a nice avatar and I liked your post, would that count as character development for you?

No. It might possibly be development for me as it says what I like. Which if we were to apply back to the source, we're not getting development for Aerith. We're getting development for Cloud, as what we're seeing explains what HE likes and feels. ... which in this case is Aerith.

That quote.... was a really long time ago. The blue, it did come from.

In this theoretical situation you are proposing, it would be my reaction that would be character development for me. Unless the given comment is insulting or doesn't require response, a reply will most likely be given. Character interaction usually works to portray development of both partners in dialogue; even non-reaction is a part of development -- Just look at Squall. The number of silent facepalms speak for themselves, but he doesn't technically say anything. Still, we get a sense of who he is and what he's like just by that simple reaction. 90% of communication is body language after all!

But.... going along with the situation, I would say thank you and tell you that the glorious Kira made this set for me. My set.... is prrrecious to me.... *pets sig and avvie*

Oh, I'm sorry, what were you saying?

 

[The Witch]

That quote.... was a really long time ago. The blue, it did come from.

In this theoretical situation you are proposing, it would be my reaction that would be character development for me. Unless the given comment is insulting or doesn't require response, a reply will most likely be given. Character interaction usually works to portray development of both partners in dialogue; even non-reaction is a part of development -- Just look at Squall. The number of silent facepalms speak for themselves, but he doesn't technically say anything. Still, we get a sense of who he is and what he's like just by that simple reaction. 90% of communication is body language after all!

But.... going along with the situation, I would say thank you and tell you that the glorious Kira made this set for me. My set.... is prrrecious to me.... *pets sig and avvie*

Oh, I'm sorry, what were you saying?

You know, instead of using sarcasm(witless at that), you could just say you were wrong when you claimed that Cloud's attraction/thoughts towards Aerith's attributes were done merely for her character development rather than Cloud's thoughts/feelings for Aerith.

Since all those quotes weren't done for her character development that means all of the previous quotes I provided(that you deemed unromantic by saying it was done solely for char development) means all of those quotes proves Cloud carried some feelings for Aerith, romantic feelings to be specific. :/

Which, can undoubtedly prove Cloud and Aerith are the couple of the game, hence me bring this up again.

 

[Dragon Mage]

You know, instead of using sarcasm(witless at that), you could just say you were wrong when you claimed that Cloud's attraction/thoughts towards Aerith's attributes were done merely for her character development rather than Cloud's thoughts/feelings for Aerith.

Since all those quotes weren't done for her character development that means all of the previous quotes I provided(that you deemed unromantic by saying it was done solely for char development) means all of those quotes proves Cloud carried some feelings for Aerith, romantic feelings to be specific. :/

Which, can undoubtedly prove Cloud and Aerith are the couple of the game, hence me bring this up again.

Um..... I wasn't being sarcastic. Not at all. I resolved to use sarcasm tags, remember? No sarcasm tags means no sarcasm.

I had no idea where you were trying to go with that comment on that old quote. Now that I know what your goal is now, I see what you meant by saying what you did. It was rather out of context so I didn't see what you meant until you added this.

In any case.

I didn't deem it unromantic entirely. Just to me. And others that may see it as something other than romantic dialogue. Certainly, it is romantic dialogue, but that will depend upon personal predisposition. Personally? I don't see it as being incredibly romantic. But since I'm also a writer and a Troper, I see things instead of going along with the story. It's called TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life. In essence, I can identify techniques and conventions instead of just ignoring them. So, because of my unique experience, I simply don't come to the same conclusion that you do.

Is their dialogue romantic? Certainly, at least some of it. Will ALL of their dialogue be interpreted the same way? Definitely not.

That's all I was saying. By no means was I attempting to say that CxA wasn't canon by that. However, I'm not saying that it is canon either. We'll really have to wait for SE to announce which is canon, so until then, both are virtually fan-canon, and that's good enough for me.

 

[The Witch]

Dragon Mage,

I didn't deem it unromantic entirely. Just to me. And others that may see it as something other than romantic dialogue. Certainly, it is romantic dialogue, but that will depend upon personal predisposition.

So... Cloud saying Aerith's eyes are impressive, noting them being radiating with innocence, comparing her smile to that of a flower(something associated with beauty) saying how he'll never again hear her laugh or see her smile, showing how much he would miss those attributes of her... all that you believe can be "interpreted" as something other than romantic interest?

I'm sorry, but there's no interpreting things like this. Fact is, Cloud says Aerith's eyes are impressive, he compares her smile to something beautiful, and he's shown deeply missing small things like her laugh and smile--all that, I don't understand how that CAN'T be romantic.

If this stuff isn't romantic, then what is? What finally makes quotes romantic with no other interpretation? Just how much is left up to interpretation of the player... where is the line drawn?

Personally? I don't see it as being incredibly romantic.

What's the difference between romantic and "incredibly" romantic? The point of the matter is that Cloud says romantic things to and about Aerith and only to Aerith. Whether or not it's "incredibly romantic" or just plain ol' romantic is just your mere opinion. No matter what though, those quotes are indeed romantic. And that's all that matters. :/

But since I'm also a writer and a Troper, I see things instead of going along with the story. It's called TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life. In essence, I can identify techniques and conventions instead of just ignoring them. So, because of my unique experience, I simply don't come to the same conclusion that you do.

Are you implying that I'm ignoring something just because I take romantic quotes at face value?

Is their dialogue romantic? Certainly, at least some of it. Will ALL of their dialogue be interpreted the same way? Definitely not.

That's not the question. The matter at hand is dealing with whether or not Cloud shows romantic interest in Aerith(non-optionally, which he does) with these quotes as he says things about Aerith he's never said to anyone else, including Tifa.

All I wanted all those pages back were for these quotes to not be brushed off as being done merely for "Aerith's character development". I'm glad you kinda agree now.

I don't know about any of you, but Cloud saying/thinking all of this stuff proves he has feelings for her, heck, I think it proves who he was always intended to love--Aerith. And if this much is said to be just my opinion, I say that's not fair. I'm only making that conclusion because I don't quite believe these quotes can be interpreted as anything else but romantic. And if someone says they can be platonic, I say, BS. That's like me saying Tifa asking Cloud if he loved her isn't romantic from Tifa>Cloud.

It might not be romantic on Cloud's part, but in Tifa's point of view, she was trying to be romantic to Cloud. Which is the same thing that's going on with Cloud's quotes about Aerith... they're romantic.

That's all I was saying. By no means was I attempting to say that CxA wasn't canon by that. However, I'm not saying that it is canon either. We'll really have to wait for SE to announce which is canon, so until then, both are virtually fan-canon, and that's good enough for me.

That's the whole point why I brought these quotes up. Clearly they're romantic, as you and I have agreed on. Now the problem is... has Cloud ever done or said any of the same for or to Tifa? I don't think so(could be wrong, but I've never had any C/T fan throw it at me, and if it existed they definitely would love to toss them at me in a LTD, so I'm sure it's safe to say until quotes surface they don't exist.)

I only brought up those previous quotes because I was using them to prove Cloud loves Aerith. If they're obviously romantic, and if Cloud never said or did the same to anyone else, then that means he non-optionally showed romantic interest/thoughts/feelings to Aerith, and no one else.

Which, in itself proves who Cloud loves. Hence my whole point in bringing them up in the LTD.

 

[The Witch]

@Kaie , Yup, that's kinda spam dude. :/ I suggest filling your post out or it'll probably be deleted.

With that said, I have a question to ask. We all know most of the stuff in this LTD can and will be interpreted differently with each player, but when do we draw the line? When does something become uninterpretable other then one solid conclusion?

For example...Tifa asking Cloud if he loves her is obviously romantic on her part, Tifa>Cloud, that imo is something that undoubtedly shows her affections for Cloud. Sure it doesn't say anything about Cloud's feelings but for Tifa it does. Just like Aerith's "I, now, undoubtedly love Cloud much more" line shows her love for Cloud, as well. Both of those instances(imo) are interpreted in one way and that's as romantic from each woman TO Cloud... as they should be.

But, when exactly does interpretation stop? When exactly does a quote or scene become something with solely one interpretation? Or will we always play the "I didn't interpret it as romantic" card?

How does a person prove something romantic is romantic without officials literally saying "oh, by the way this is romantic"? is it fair we have to rely on the creators as if we can't put two and two together?

 

[Valvalis]

Just wanted to make another note for everyone to please try to keep things polite in here. Also, just a reminder that non-staff members pointing out spam posts of other members is considered pseudo-modding and is against forum rules. Thanks =)

 

[The Witch]

I don't think Cloud was in the right mind set to be in love with anyone in the game. Cloud is a little crazy so I thought Cloud saw himself as Zack for some time so maybe Zack told Colud about Aerith and he just thought he had feelings for her... or he was trying to make Zack's feelings live on. That what I was thinking when it comes to Cloud and Aerith. Also I think he felt he killed Aerith she was his friend and he was ment to be looking after her. But I feel that he never had real feelings for her over then friendship that was his own. It is all about Zack and Aerith and they walk off together at the end of AC.

In FFVII:AC I know it is never said but I got the feeling that Tifa and Cloud where already together. Before AC they where living together they have photos of them two and the kids. I really thought they where a couple.

Cloud wasn't crazy. He was literally confused on who and where he came from. He never thought he was Zack of Nibelheim. The problem Cloud faced was whether or not he was a real person. He always knew he was Cloud Strife, so saying he felt Zack's feelings is very very stretched. The most that happened to Cloud was that he thought he had Zack's legacy of being a first class soldier--something Cloud always wanted to be. He never felt Zack's emotions or thoughts. He merely abducted Zack's occupational legacy. If Cloud really thought he was Zack, therefor taking on his emotions/thoughts then Cloud would have introduced himself as "Zack Fair from Gongaga" he would have already knew Aerith, and wouldn't have done anything he did in the game. And, he didn't call himself Zack, nor did he previously know Aerith therefor he wasn't feeling Zack's thoughts or emotions towards Aerith. His feelings were real.

Once again, all that happened to Cloud was that he took Zack's occupational legacy, he never became Zack or taking his feelings/thoughts ever.

Just so you know, Aerith moved on from Zack, she no longer loves him but instead she "undoubtedly loves Cloud much more"--that's from the mouth of the creators. So you can't say "it's all about Zack and Aerith". Not to mention, in AC, Zack is only there so he could help Cloud, not try and be with Aerith, especially since Aerith has already told Zack that she's over him. So it's not all about them.

That's good you think they were a couple before AC. But nothing says they are. Nomura even said to a fan once that he had no idea whether or not Cloud were together. If Nomura doesn't know, then it's not happening... at least not yet.

Besides, that, one of those kids is Barret and Tifa's not Cloud and Tifa's. To make matters more confusing. The family you saw in those pictures was started by Barret and his daughter Marlene, to which Marlene adopted Cloud into the family. If Barret and Tifa raise Marlene, and you all claim it's romantic for Cloud and Tifa then that must mean it's romantic for Barret and Tifa, too, huh?

@Six,

I feel the same way, Amne. Personally, I never cared for Aerith's character individually, but I think the relationship portrayed with her and Zack is gorgeous. I never played Crisis Core, but reading about it, and seeing them interact, is just so sad. Was a really deserved relationship, and you could really see Zack cared for her, as did Aerith for zack, her 23 tiny wishes, put in to one, that she wanted to spend more time with him. ♥

A person doesn't have to "care" for Aerith as a character to see that she's not in love with Zack anymore. She moved on. And she moved on to fall deeper in love with Cloud than she ever was with Zack, as stated by SE. The past relationship between Zack and Aerith is adorable, but it's still a first love... a first love in which Aerith moves on from.

There's no denying Aerith thought she was in love with Zack, but as stated more than once, she and Zack were never serious. That says a lot about their "relationship".

I really wish fans would stop making Aerith out like she's not in love with Cloud. It's as ridiculous as a fan claiming Tifa didn't love Cloud.

As far as Tifa and Cloud go, I think these two have been through so much together, that even with taking in to consideration that Cloud might have said things about Aerith's smile, and the likes, I don't think it's possible to beat your childhood crush, that is still fighting along your side even after all these years.

That's just opinion, though. If that crush is called dim then that means it wasn't strong. And if Cloud carried that crush till the beginning of FFVII, why is he so cold to her, he surely isn't acting like she's the crush of his life, either.

The point of those quotes being provided were to show Cloud has an attraction towards Aerith. We've never had any of that from Cloud to Tifa. If Cloud's off saying all that romantic stuff to and about Aerith... it makes it really hard to believe that Cloud is crushing on Tifa. If he was, he shouldn't be taking notice to Aerith, let alone acting this way only to Aerith.

I am not denying Cloud didn't love Aerith, but I think he loved her for who she was, and he cherished having her as a friend. When playing Final Fantasy VII, this is how it came over to me. I think during FF: VII, and onwards, Cloud realized Zack and her were 'involved', and I think it fuelled his guilt as well. He promised to protect her along the way, he promised Zack he'd be his living legacy, but as we all know, Cloud is a different person, and he isn't Zack.

That's again, opinion. Like all of this is, we need proof that he only cherished her as a friend. Cloud's guilt has NEVER EVER been said to be caused by him "realizing Zack and Aerith once were in puppy love." that is just something completely without basis. Nomura and SE has said multiple times, his guilt is from failing her and blaming himself for her death. Now, why would Cloud care so deeply? That's the question. Some say he does because she's his friend, but if that were true, why doesn't he act so heartbroken over Zack's death, why doesn't he blame himself for that? Why is he able to visit Zack's grave but can't seem to bear the idea of even stepping foot in the place where "he and Aerith were separated" (CoT quote)

Sorry, if Aerith was just another friend, he shouldn't be able to tell Sephiroth that his plan of killing the planet and its people didn't mean anything now that Aerith was dead. That's not something a friend does to another friend, especially when they're supposed "crush" is right behind them.

I think Advent Children portrayed guilt on Cloud just right, you can see that, knowing Aerith is in good hands, and knowing he is where he wants to be, he realizes he can move on without having to feel guilty. He can give 'life' and the people around him, his all basically. That is why I think Tifa and Cloud are such a gorgeous couple, and why Tifa is the actual love interest.

Wait? Where did you get that idea? The thing that makes Cloud able to "move on" or carry on with life is knowing that Aerith is with him. Only then can "his suffering in loneliness" come to an end, as stated by SE.

And, just a little note on the advertisement... Just because Square Enix gives the OK, it doesn't mean it's canon. That would make On The Way To A Smile: Case of Tifa, canon, as well as Maiden. They were only OK-ed, for commercial use. Advertisement that interests both sides. I think the commercial itself is really attention grabbing, but just because it's stated there's a love that can never be, and because it was okayed by Square Enix, it doesn't make it the 'canon' of all 'canons'.

Maiden and OTWTAS are canon, though Like I said before, 8, 9, and X's commercials all portrayed their canon couple, why is that VII's commercial is supposedly the only one that is wrong... in three different countries no less. And can I have something from SE that says commercials don't mean something when in relation to VII?

 

[Dragon Mage]

I'm sorry, but there's no interpreting things like this. Fact is, Cloud says Aerith's eyes are impressive, he compares her smile to something beautiful, and he's shown deeply missing small things like her laugh and smile--all that, I don't understand how that CAN'T be romantic.

If this stuff isn't romantic, then what is? What finally makes quotes romantic with no other interpretation? Just how much is left up to interpretation of the player... where is the line drawn?

Well, I was speaking of their dialogue in general, since there were no given examples. Some is undeniably romantic. One could argue that Cloud's discussion with Tifa in the Lifestream also had romantic elements -- but even so, this is subject to personal viewpoint, so as strongly romantic as any dialogue may seem, there is the possibility that there will be those that do not see it in the same light. It may not be a very large possibility, nor a large amount of people, but still it is there and must be considered.

What's the difference between romantic and "incredibly" romantic? The point of the matter is that Cloud says romantic things to and about Aerith and only to Aerith. Whether or not it's "incredibly romantic" or just plain ol' romantic is just your mere opinion. No matter what though, those quotes are indeed romantic. And that's all that matters. :/

Well, in the full scope of things, "incredibly romantic" would constitute things like love-letter poetry. Cloud does recall her eyes, he does speak of her smile -- but he doesn't wax poetic about them as you would find in some of Dante's sonnets or something. Such heavily romantic prose isn't seen, so therefore not incredibly romantic, and I think you'll agree in this perspective, considering how incredibly dense and saccharine love-letters can be.

Also, whether or not Cloud trades romantic dialogue with Aerith solely and no other character is (obviously) a subject of debate, which I believe best left to personal liking. The weight behind the words is entirely subject to the player's personal preference and opinion on the matter.

Are you implying that I'm ignoring something just because I take romantic quotes at face value?

Not at all! Nothing of the sort! I'm saying that you are taking the evidence the way anyone normally would. But because I've a certain experience and background with the "behind the scenes" techniques, as it were, I'm more skeptical about these quotes and dialogue. I'm more inclined to see deeper into the intent of things, and thus question the full import of their commonly interpreted meanings. I'm a skeptic, through and through, because I have certain knowledge that enables me to see things that any normal player/audience member wouldn't notice. That is why I cast such doubt on any and all evidence. Everything in a story has multiple purposes, and I'm more inclined to take all those purposes into account at once. But that's just because of my experience -- it will differ for everyone, some similar to mine, some similar to yours, some utterly different from us both and everything in between.

That's not the question. The matter at hand is dealing with whether or not Cloud shows romantic interest in Aerith(non-optionally, which he does) with these quotes as he says things about Aerith he's never said to anyone else, including Tifa.

All I wanted all those pages back were for these quotes to not be brushed off as being done merely for "Aerith's character development". I'm glad you kinda agree now.

Oh! Well, why didn't you say that before? Of course they were meant to indicate Cloud's romance toward Aerith. How far that romance goes will always be a matter of debate, but it's undeniable that he has strong feelings for her -- but I will not commit any more than that. Whether or not he loves her, romantically and intimately, is still going to be up to personal decision on the matter. Some may not find all the evidence convincing; others find it more than enough evidence to support the romance. It is that tipping point where I say, "Here is personal preference and interpretation," which really decides which side one will fall on.

As I said earlier, how much weight is put behind these bits of dialogue is entirely up to the player's predisposition. It cannot be helped.

I don't know about any of you, but Cloud saying/thinking all of this stuff proves he has feelings for her, heck, I think it proves who he was always intended to love--Aerith. And if this much is said to be just my opinion, I say that's not fair. I'm only making that conclusion because I don't quite believe these quotes can be interpreted as anything else but romantic. And if someone says they can be platonic, I say, BS. That's like me saying Tifa asking Cloud if he loved her isn't romantic from Tifa>Cloud.

Ah, I see where you're concerned. It goes without saying that Cloud has affection for both girls, yes? It doesn't have to be romantic affection, but simply affection -- this general statement is true. The depth of the affection -- and towards whom -- is what the debate is about.

To allay your suspicions on how some things can be seen as anything but romantic, I will say simply this: Everyone develops their particular opinion and preference for a reason. No one just arbitrarily decides "I'm going to support this!" for no cause. The reason such opinion is developed is by observing certain things in the game, and how they are interpreted personally, and how much weight is given to those things. So all the things you say are there -- romantic quotes, concern for another, and so on: Yes, those are certainly there in the game, no question. It's just that some people may not consider it as weighty as others do. They may be more convinced by contrary evidence that points another direction, for whatever reason.

If Cloud clearly did not show a whiff of affection for Tifa, do you think there would be such a strong ship to support the pairing? Of course not (discounting trolls, of course). There must be something in the game that made people believe so strongly that this particular pairing is the true one. Likewise, the same can be said of CxA. You, Calico, did not just pick CxA to support on a random whim -- you were convinced that it is the canon pairing by the various interactions presented to you in the game.

Both sides are correct to a point -- namely, by saying that Cloud has affection for both girls. This is a true statement. Taking that a step farther, however, is where things get fuzzy, because it is then that preference and opinion step in. And the rest is history.

That's the whole point why I brought these quotes up. Clearly they're romantic, as you and I have agreed on. Now the problem is... has Cloud ever done or said any of the same for or to Tifa? I don't think so(could be wrong, but I've never had any C/T fan throw it at me, and if it existed they definitely would love to toss them at me in a LTD, so I'm sure it's safe to say until quotes surface they don't exist.)

I only brought up those previous quotes because I was using them to prove Cloud loves Aerith. If they're obviously romantic, and if Cloud never said or did the same to anyone else, then that means he non-optionally showed romantic interest/thoughts/feelings to Aerith, and no one else.

Though I urge you to keep in mind that I'm not debating any ship here, I can easily say that yes, Cloud and Tifa do share some romance, at least insofar as is comparable to the quotes that you have provided.

The Lifestream scene plays a fairly big role here -- Cloud recalls that the entire reason he want on this adventure was to gain Tifa's attention, though he didn't know that he needn't really apply so hard for it. Even in Crisis Core, we see that Cloud still has very strong feelings for Tifa, as he mentions the "promise" at least once. This means that for at least his entire childhood and well into his career, he still had affection for Tifa. When he stabs Sephiroth, he says, "Mom.... Tifa... the town.... give it back." He mentions his mother, Tifa, and his home: The three most important things to him. This would also indicate some romance on his part toward her; that her loss was a devastating blow to him. So clearly, there is some romantic involvement between Cloud and Tifa. (Is it as much as CxA? More? Less? I cannot say -- that is decided by preference and opinion.)

While I will not provide direct quotes, as that is my stated purpose not to do, suffice it to say that there is enough evidence in the game to convince half of the players that he is more romantically interested in Tifa. This conclusion would not have come from the air, it came about for a specific set of reasons, prompted by a number of interactions seen in the game.

Should you wish to delve deeper and examine those reasons specifically, I'm afraid I will be unable to oblige you. I've become quite comfortable to the fact that neither side will be beyond any question to its authority unless SE decides to announce it; but the way things are now, both sides can be content, which is perfectly fine for me. I'm sorry if this impedes your point in any way.

 

[Saints&Storms]

And, just a little note on the advertisement... Just because Square Enix gives the OK, it doesn't mean it's canon. That would make On The Way To A Smile: Case of Tifa, canon, as well as Maiden. They were only OK-ed, for commercial use. Advertisement that interests both sides. I think the commercial itself is really attention grabbing, but just because it's stated there's a love that can never be, and because it was okayed by Square Enix, it doesn't make it the 'canon' of all 'canons'.

That's just my opinion, my two cents, really.

...What? Its official and that is all we need to know, its called an advertisement for a reason; advertisements are meant to and made for the sole purpose of persuading people to see a product a certain way. This commercial ad is what SE released to announce their product to viewers and gamers and they really hit it home by putting it in several countries/languages.

The advertisement was allowed to play, in several countries and languages, it was more than "okay'd" they personally sent the message out there in thick bold letters.

Maiden who Travels the Planet and Case of Tifa are canon by the way...as if ACC didn't already prove that for Case of Tifa, because it lines perfectly with the movie and even had a short added in, as well as Maiden Who Travels the Planet lining up perfectly with Dismantled and FF;VII.

Excuse this bold suggestion, but; who says whats canon exactly then, you, a fan who has absolutely no consolation on how the story of FFVII goes?

There are two things that boldly suggest the Commercial Ad is not only official but canon as well; that is Square Enix allowing its release in the first place and then simultaneously releasing it in other countries & languages.

ad·ver·tis·ing
  /ˈædvərˌtaɪzɪŋ/ Show Spelled[ad-ver-tahy-zing] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the act or practice of calling public attention to one's product, service, need, etc., especially by paid announcements in newspapers and magazines, over radio or television, on billboards, etc.: to get more customers by advertising.

ad·ver·tise
   /ˈædvərˌtaɪz, ˌædvərˈtaɪz/ Show Spelled [ad-ver-tahyz, ad-ver-tahyz] Show IPA verb, -tised, -tis·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.
to announce or praise (a product, service, etc.) in some public medium of communication in order to induce people to buy or use it: to advertise a new brand of toothpaste.
2.
to give information to the public about; announce publicly in a newspaper, on radio or television, etc.: to advertise a reward.

So once again; somebody paid for the ad to run; who else would do that beside...well, the company and producers that own the game? We can all agree that Final Fantasy VII is Square Enix's product, so who would PAY to advertise an item of someone else? And even more importantly, Square Enix felt the need to use Cloud and Aerith to make the game more appealing...? Whether or not its canon aside, they practically shoved Cloud x Aerith down people throats with the commercials, they used that specific pairing to make Final Fantasy VII attractive and to gain buyers.

What else do we need; they even stamped their name on the product advert, it says "Squaresoft" [which was the official company's name at the time.] - meaning they had to have been with the deal -

 

[Harlequin]

is it fair we have to rely on the creators as if we can't put two and two together?

Yeah that really is the bottom line. I think there's something goin on between him and Tifa don't get me wrong, but he's obviously got romantic feelings for Aeris too. Let's not pretend we can't read between the lines people, shit you don't have to find proof to know that Don Corneo's a pervert, or that Elena's incompetent. Cloud was cold as ice in the beginning, there's no way - with his mercenary attitude - he would've been tied down being her 'bodyguard' if he wasn't chasing tail. Oh what so this pragmatic mercenary with a stone heart saddles himself with some random chick for friendship? lol.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Cloud was cold as ice in the beginning, there's no way - with his mercenary attitude - he would've been tied down being her 'bodyguard' if he wasn't chasing tail.

You've just defined lust, not love.

 

[Harlequin]

Yeah, but I also only described the initial stage of their relationship.

Cloud only cares about gettin paid, but when she's kidnapped suddenly he wants to charge into the Shinra building to rescue her. I wouldn't call that lust, but whatever floats your boat. :dave:

 

[Dragon Mage]

They went in for reasons not pertaining to any romantic interest. Cloud may be cool and badass, but he isn't without a soul. Besides, Cloud feels responsible for getting Aerith into trouble in the first place -- because she went with him, she got caught. Also, they did it to hinder Shinra's plans for her. They're mission statement is to screw Shinra over whenever possible. Additionally, Barret is the leader of the group still, and he says he owes it to rescue her because she saved Marlene. It's all there in the game.

 

[The Witch]

Dragon Mage,

Well, I was speaking of their dialogue in general, since there were no given examples.

Oh, okay...

Cloud when meeting Aerith:
"Here I met a flower girl.
She’s a girl with impressive eyes. She’s around my age, or elder by one or two years. But the innocent radiance in her eyes simply makes her suddenly look younger.
Maybe she’s pleased that the flower was sold, because the worried look on her face had vanished. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase."



CLOUD: Aerith used to smile like a flower, all the time... But, Aerith won't smile anymore.
I won't ever hear her innocent laugh again.
What did she do?
Why did Aerith have to die? -DISMANTLED
​

There in the first quote we see Cloud call Aerith's eyes "impressive" he then notes the innocence radiating in them. And then after he purchases a flower from her she gives him a smile to which Cloud says her smile was a good purchase. Then in the second quote Cloud compares her smile to that of a flower, and then he adds the most heartbreaking thing; he says "I won't ever hear her innocent laugh again".

First and foremost, he's, in so many poetic words, saying Aerith's smile is beautiful, since flowers are considered to be symbols of beauty. He says her smile is a good purchase, for it to be a good purchase that must mean he liked that attribute about her. And then on top of that he notices her eyes and thinks to himself how impressive they are and then says after she dies how he'll never get to hear her laugh ever again.

I'm sorry, that sort of stuff just can't be interpreted as something purely done out of friendship. At the time Cloud says her smile is a good purchase and says how impressive her eyes are Cloud is still a heartless jerk, the very same heartless jerk that told people he didn't care for their names. It seems a little strange that Cloud would act so sweetly to a woman he literally just met and didn't know the name of if he didn't have attraction/affection/adoration growing for her.

Some is undeniably romantic. One could argue that Cloud's discussion with Tifa in the Lifestream also had romantic elements -- but even so, this is subject to personal viewpoint, so as strongly romantic as any dialogue may seem, there is the possibility that there will be those that do not see it in the same light. It may not be a very large possibility, nor a large amount of people, but still it is there and must be considered.

Sorry, nothing in the Lifestream scene(as far as I remember) is as unarguably romantic as the quotes I just provided above. Here, lemme give you an example.

If there was a scene of Cloud and Tifa lying in bed next to each other lovingly, and Cloud rises and sees Tifa there and I choose to interpret it as something completely unromantic, does that make my accusation logical or correct? No of course not. Of course if Cloud and Tifa shared a bed it would be romantic.

The same can be said for those quotes I provided for Cloud to Aerith. If Cloud says Aerith's eyes are impressive it's him showing a liking/attraction of her attributes. If Cloud says he thinks her smile was a good purchase that means he must have enjoyed/liked her smile. If Cloud takes the time to think of a poetically descriptive symbol of beauty to compare Aerith's smile to, odds are he thinks her smile is as beautiful as the thing he just compared it to.

Now, the home run moment is WHY would Cloud think any of this if he thought of Aerith merely as a friend? Better yet, why would he think and act this way just to Aerith and not towards anyone else, more specifically, why doesn't he do anything of the such for or to Tifa?

Well, in the full scope of things, "incredibly romantic" would constitute things like love-letter poetry. Cloud does recall her eyes, he does speak of her smile -- but he doesn't wax poetic about them as you would find in some of Dante's sonnets or something.

For starters Aladdin says almost the same stuff as Cloud does for Aerith but about Jasmine...

ALADDIN: Beautiful. She's got these eyes that just...and
this hair, wow...and her smile.

CLOUD: She’s a girl with impressive eyes. If this smile costs only one gil, it is a good purchase.
Aerith used to smile like a flower, all the time. I won't ever hear her innocent laugh again.

And he doesn't even say what he likes about them he just mentions them. See, when in love Aladdin says almost the same stuff, now, why is Cloud saying this stuff again?

Just because some poet didn't write it doesn't make it any less romantic, just makes Cloud his own poet when talking about Aerith. And I don't know, Cloud making a comparison of her smile being like a flower is pretty poetic. Can someone even tell me how Cloud even made that comparison, cuz I'm still confused how a smile could ever be like a flower? D:

Such heavily romantic prose isn't seen, so therefore not incredibly romantic, and I think you'll agree in this perspective, considering how incredibly dense and saccharine love-letters can be.

Says you. Cloud didn't write a love letter. Instead he thought to himself all of those things, making it all the more special.

Also, whether or not Cloud trades romantic dialogue with Aerith solely and no other character is (obviously) a subject of debate, which I believe best left to personal liking. The weight behind the words is entirely subject to the player's personal preference and opinion on the matter.

Well, do you have anything of the such for C/T? Does Cloud say how impressive Tifa's eyes are? Or how her smile is comparable to a flower? Does he say anything like that to Tifa?

Like I said before, certain things aren't left up to interpretation.

Not at all! Nothing of the sort! I'm saying that you are taking the evidence the way anyone normally would. But because I've a certain experience and background with the "behind the scenes" techniques, as it were, I'm more skeptical about these quotes and dialogue. I'm more inclined to see deeper into the intent of things, and thus question the full import of their commonly interpreted meanings. I'm a skeptic, through and through, because I have certain knowledge that enables me to see things that any normal player/audience member wouldn't notice. That is why I cast such doubt on any and all evidence. Everything in a story has multiple purposes, and I'm more inclined to take all those purposes into account at once. But that's just because of my experience -- it will differ for everyone, some similar to mine, some similar to yours, some utterly different from us both and everything in between.

Okay

Oh! Well, why didn't you say that before? Of course they were meant to indicate Cloud's romance toward Aerith. How far that romance goes will always be a matter of debate, but it's undeniable that he has strong feelings for her -- but I will not commit any more than that. Whether or not he loves her, romantically and intimately, is still going to be up to personal decision on the matter. Some may not find all the evidence convincing; others find it more than enough evidence to support the romance. It is that tipping point where I say, "Here is personal preference and interpretation," which really decides which side one will fall on.

How far? And again, I'm bringing those quotes up because they can help prove who Cloud loves. It's evidence to support our pairing which in hand proves who the couple is.

As I said earlier, how much weight is put behind these bits of dialogue is entirely up to the player's predisposition. It cannot be helped.

As I said... when do we draw the line in the sand separating "interpretation" and "how it really is?"

Like I said above, if Cloud kissed Tifa and I interpreted as CPR rather than a display of affection does that mean I'm right in my interpretation?

Ah, I see where you're concerned. It goes without saying that Cloud has affection for both girls, yes? It doesn't have to be romantic affection, but simply affection -- this general statement is true. The depth of the affection -- and towards whom -- is what the debate is about.

Yes.

To allay your suspicions on how some things can be seen as anything but romantic, I will say simply this: Everyone develops their particular opinion and preference for a reason. No one just arbitrarily decides "I'm going to support this!" for no cause. The reason such opinion is developed is by observing certain things in the game, and how they are interpreted personally, and how much weight is given to those things. So all the things you say are there -- romantic quotes, concern for another, and so on: Yes, those are certainly there in the game, no question. It's just that some people may not consider it as weighty as others do. They may be more convinced by contrary evidence that points another direction, for whatever reason.

but that's what I'm asking you, Dragon Mage. When do we draw the line in the sand between interpretation and how it really is?

If Cloud clearly did not show a whiff of affection for Tifa, do you think there would be such a strong ship to support the pairing? Of course not (discounting trolls, of course). There must be something in the game that made people believe so strongly that this particular pairing is the true one. Likewise, the same can be said of CxA. You, Calico, did not just pick CxA to support on a random whim -- you were convinced that it is the canon pairing by the various interactions presented to you in the game.

Point taken, Dragon.

Both sides are correct to a point -- namely, by saying that Cloud has affection for both girls. This is a true statement. Taking that a step farther, however, is where things get fuzzy, because it is then that preference and opinion step in. And the rest is history.

Not exactly. Usually, both sides will just deny something blatant.

Though I urge you to keep in mind that I'm not debating any ship here, I can easily say that yes, Cloud and Tifa do share some romance, at least insofar as is comparable to the quotes that you have provided.

Can you give me one? One that shows Cloud's clear cut attraction/liking to Tifa?

The Lifestream scene plays a fairly big role here -- Cloud recalls that the entire reason he want on this adventure was to gain Tifa's attention, though he didn't know that he needn't really apply so hard for it. Even in Crisis Core, we see that Cloud still has very strong feelings for Tifa, as he mentions the "promise" at least once. This means that for at least his entire childhood and well into his career, he still had affection for Tifa. When he stabs Sephiroth, he says, "Mom.... Tifa... the town.... give it back." He mentions his mother, Tifa, and his home: The three most important things to him. This would also indicate some romance on his part toward her; that her loss was a devastating blow to him. So clearly, there is some romantic involvement between Cloud and Tifa. (Is it as much as CxA? More? Less? I cannot say -- that is decided by preference and opinion.)

Not just Tifa's, but the whole town. but to be fair, I'll give you that. But, all of what you just mentioned takes place in the past... before he met or knew Aerith. That was all during his dim crush.

Can you show me something like that after Cloud knows Aerith?

While I will not provide direct quotes, as that is my stated purpose not to do, suffice it to say that there is enough evidence in the game to convince half of the players that he is more romantically interested in Tifa. This conclusion would not have come from the air, it came about for a specific set of reasons, prompted by a number of interactions seen in the game.

Well, if you don't provide quotes it just looks like opinion VS the quotes I'm providing, and that can't win a debate nor get the upper hand.

Half the time, fans who support CxT always doubt or act like what Cloud feels and does towards Aerith is all thanks to Zack(which is false), so by their logic they have no reason to believe Cloud harbored any feelings for Aerith since they're always saying it's cuz he was Zack.

But, the debate sparks up when a Clourith that knows Cloud acted that way had nothing to do with Zack says they're wrong in their accusation, but at this time the C/T fans have already allowed themselves to buy into the idea that Cloud was Zack during the first 2 discs of the game therefor clouding their judgment on whom Cloud truly loves. It's a misunderstanding to say the least.

Should you wish to delve deeper and examine those reasons specifically, I'm afraid I will be unable to oblige you. I've become quite comfortable to the fact that neither side will be beyond any question to its authority unless SE decides to announce it; but the way things are now, both sides can be content, which is perfectly fine for me. I'm sorry if this impedes your point in any way.

It doesn't. But the point of this thread is to argue our side's point to try and prove one of their pairings.

Harlequin

Yeah that really is the bottom line. I think there's something goin on between him and Tifa don't get me wrong, but he's obviously got romantic feelings for Aeris too. Let's not pretend we can't read between the lines people, shit you don't have to find proof to know that Don Corneo's a pervert, or that Elena's incompetent. Cloud was cold as ice in the beginning, there's no way - with his mercenary attitude - he would've been tied down being her 'bodyguard' if he wasn't chasing tail. Oh what so this pragmatic mercenary with a stone heart saddles himself with some random chick for friendship? lol.

QFT

Also, Dragon Mage, saying someone is back paddling is a bit much, don't you think?

They went in for reasons not pertaining to any romantic interest.

What happened to different interpretations, Dragon? D: And no, sorry, there's no proof for your claim, either.

Cloud may be cool and badass, but he isn't without a soul. Besides, Cloud feels responsible for getting Aerith into trouble in the first place -- because she went with him, she got caught. Also, they did it to hinder Shinra's plans for her. They're mission statement is to screw Shinra over whenever possible. Additionally, Barret is the leader of the group still, and he says he owes it to rescue her because she saved Marlene. It's all there in the game.

Actually, Cloud was as cold as ice before he met Aerith. Need I bring up all the times he portrayed his jackass persona to those around him? Cloud went in there for reasons all on his own. Barret even acts surprised when he learns that even Cloud will fight for someone else, aka Aerith when they're heading off to save her from Shinra. So, Cloud did genuinly care for Aerith at this time.