I would just like to specifically address this quote here which I neglected to do because I was pressed for time:
LOL
This is so not true. There are decisions throughout the game that can increase AND decrease all 4 scores. It's not like you're whittling away Aerith's score and there's no possible way to just add up numbers to Tifa's score until her score is higher. In fact, the only part where you actually HAVE to whittle away both Aerith's and Tifa's scores is so that Yuffie and Barret's scores can compete -- there are not as many options to add to Barret's and Yuffie's scores as there are for Aerith and Tifa.
xD
I may have indeed lowered Aerith's score by my "first option always" decision, but there's really no need to have to lower her score on purpose. Some options will detract from her score no matter what you do, same with the others in a few decisions. But it's perfectly easy to just increase Tifa's score so that it's higher than Aerith's without going out of your way to decrease Aerith's score.
xD I wasn't getting angry over anything, I was making a joke.
Okay, well "different" isn't the same as being a jagoff. I'm a naturally sarcastic person. I can't help it. I hear someone say something that could be taken a much different way, I have to say it. So does that mean I'm being snobby or mean when I select sarcastic replies in games? Not at all -- that's just what I do. There are a lot of reasons behind the way people respond, and the answer isn't always "because they're mean" or "because they're petty".
And no, you don't actually have to "go out of your way" to show affection to Tifa. Did you READ what I said? Had I actually selected one or two options differently, I would've gotten Tifa. When I totaled it all up, Aerith's score was only 3 points higher than Tifa's, if memory serves. So if I HAD selected differently in just one or two choices, I would've gotten Tifa.
And I would've done that without trying, either, since the first option wasn't always the one I liked best. You choose what you like in a situation like that -- in my case, I would've gotten Tifa had I chosen once, instead of going along with the first option. That's hardly going out of my way to get Tifa.
Big deal.
Woo.
It's a party.
I never once tried to say, "I'm gonna get TIFA this time!" In fact, I was surprised I got Tifa. I had expected it to be Aerith -- I thought that was a whole scripted scene, absent of any player influence. Only after, when I looked up a walkthrough, did I realize that all those replies determined the date.
Second, I'll assume this is from some dating guide.
Dating.
Guide.
You know what those look like, right? They say, "Do this, this, and this to get that." EVERY scenario is listed like that, including Aerith's. To look at the gamefaq's guide, it looks like you have to conciously go out of your way to not say anything to Aerith that will decrease her score, and to say everything to increase her score.
You don't need to select every option to increase her score and avoid every option that decreases her score. Same with the other three. Just because it's listed so comprehensively doesn't mean that you must make an exerted effort to get that particular outcome. You only really need the date guide anyway to get Yuffie and Barret -- which is what I used it for. Barret's date? HIL-ARIOUS!
I can use this same argument against you: I can quote a section of this guide with some of the detailed options you must pick to increase Aerith's score and say, "It seems very unlikely you didn't try to get Aerith since you have to consciously make the decisions to act romantic toward her."
It doesn't work that way. The Player chooses which options they like best and if that option adds to Tifa's or Aerith's scores, so be it. But no extreme effort is required. You don't consciously think, while playing the game, "Well, I want to date HER so I'll say everything nice to her." No. That doesn't happen. You just choose the response that you like best.
And this is exactly my point. Each side is likely to put incredible amounts of power in the least of actions. For example:
Cloud: Tifa, please pass the butter.
Tifa: Of course, Cloud.
Fan: OMFG MAKE ZE BABIES!!!!
See my point? And yes, what the Cloti's think is incredibly telling may not mean the same to the Clerith's. And what the Clarret's think is incredibly telling of their pairing won't mean the same to either Cloti's or Clerith's. This is what I've been saying all along. Too much is left up to personal interpretation, and won't translate the same implied meaning to one side as it does to the other.
Sure a lot of crazy stuff was cut, so why do the Clerith's like to use it? I've only seen mention of that stable scene ONCE. And that was two years ago. Yet I've seen on this very thread mention of scenes between Aerith and Cloud that I've never even heard before. The answer to your question is that BOTH SIDES, no matter what who they are, will resort to some truly desperate measures in attempts to prove that their pairing is the right one. This always happens. Always. Just ignore it and go on your way.
I could also argue that Aerith wasn't supposed to be in the game because she was supposed to be Sephiroth's sister, and since he has no sister, Aerith's couldn't possibly exist. It's a perpetual spiral that gets both sides nowhere, so lets not go down that yellow brick road, aye? Saves us both time, I promise. And the Highwind scene DOES exist, what it's implications are is up to the player. Needless to say, those implications can be.... exotic.
And will you please knock it off with the "Why do the Cloti's do this?" and "Why do the Cloti's do that?" What you're claiming that Cloti's do is, in fact, what every pairing does, not just limited to FF7. This includes Clerith's. I've once seen someone actually trying to verify the Clerith pairing by quoting a Clerith fanfic. That was about the point I started bashing my head on the table. I only brought up that cut scene that was in the draft because I was unsure of what you were referring to when you said, "romantic scene." I don't see the Highwind scene to be very erotic, so I was rather confused.
Don't look too much into it. I'm not claiming that it supports the pairing, or any pairing for that matter. Please remember that my being here is to argue that any pairing isn't very canon, and it's the individual opinion that really determines what is and isn't canon. For example, I don't like tragic couples. I just don't. It's a thing. So I like the idea of Cloud and Tifa better than I like the idea of Cloud and Aerith. Did I cite any information for that? Of course not. That's just my decision. I don't really feel the need to try and prove it to anyone because -- in all honesty -- your opinion on the outcome of the game will determine which pairing you like. And no one can convince you to like something you dislike -- like you trying to convince me that tragic couples are better. It isn't going to work. And there you have it.
Aerith's date is NOT default -- it's just easier. If it were default, I'd have to go out of my way to make it otherwise: Which I've clearly already established is not the case. And the creators didn't say it was default, they said it was basically typical. Not the same as default.
No, it isn't an entirely different comparison. It's very true. Let's say that I like Coke. Whenever given the option, I drink Coke instead of Pepsi. Then I turn around and say that because I selected Coke, it's the real soda drink and Pepsi isn't a real soda. This is exactly what trying to use the date scene to prove a pairing is like. It's making an arbitrary claim based solely on biased evidence. You can't hope to prove something with that kind of evidence -- and mind you, this means Cloti's as well as Clerith's, no sides are exempt here.
And again. No one said it was default. That's just how you interpreted it. I interpreted it differently.
Which again leads me back to the same thing as before -- such evidence is so incredibly swayed by the individual's interpretation that it may as well be no proof at all.
I know how the LTD can be ended. It can be ended right now, in fact.
How about both sides just agree that both girls have the hots for Cloud and go draw funny pictures of them making him wear a dress? How about us fans, like the characters we so dearly love, just get along and not fuss about it any more? The day THAT happens is the day the LTD will finally come to a close -- it will no longer be needed.
Terra said:The second date is because you decided to increase the level for Tifa by decreasing the default level between Aerith and Cloud.
LOL
This is so not true. There are decisions throughout the game that can increase AND decrease all 4 scores. It's not like you're whittling away Aerith's score and there's no possible way to just add up numbers to Tifa's score until her score is higher. In fact, the only part where you actually HAVE to whittle away both Aerith's and Tifa's scores is so that Yuffie and Barret's scores can compete -- there are not as many options to add to Barret's and Yuffie's scores as there are for Aerith and Tifa.
xD
I may have indeed lowered Aerith's score by my "first option always" decision, but there's really no need to have to lower her score on purpose. Some options will detract from her score no matter what you do, same with the others in a few decisions. But it's perfectly easy to just increase Tifa's score so that it's higher than Aerith's without going out of your way to decrease Aerith's score.
Um.... there's no possible way to play the game without somehow, in some way, increasing or decreasing Aerith's, Tifa's, Yuffie's and Barret's scores. Impossible. There's no "free pass" option. Whatever choice you make WILL affect the scores. So, I'm rather confused how you say that is otherwise.The options you pick to get Aerith, are default to all characters. You don't have to pick to show romance to Aerith to get Aerith, do you? No, you go through the story being "nice" to who ever and whenever you are shown an option to pick from.
Well of course you don't slap Aerith in the face or anything like that, I was just trying to make a point. There's no need to get angry over it, jeez.
You have to be considerably "different" (since you think "mean" isn't suitable here) in the game to Aerith in order to finally get a date with Tifa. That's all I meant.
xD I wasn't getting angry over anything, I was making a joke.
Okay, well "different" isn't the same as being a jagoff. I'm a naturally sarcastic person. I can't help it. I hear someone say something that could be taken a much different way, I have to say it. So does that mean I'm being snobby or mean when I select sarcastic replies in games? Not at all -- that's just what I do. There are a lot of reasons behind the way people respond, and the answer isn't always "because they're mean" or "because they're petty".
Please quote me in full when you use quotes. Aerith is NOT default. In choosing the first option every time, I actually lowered her score several times, and randomly bumped it up several times; same with Tifa and Barret and Yuffie. It was like THE mixed-message relationship. XDOkay, so you agree. Aerith is default. Do you know what default means? Its in the creator's own words, she's the normal date out of them all. But if you want Tifa, you have to really try and show romance to her.
You don't have to do that to Aerith. :/
And no, you don't actually have to "go out of your way" to show affection to Tifa. Did you READ what I said? Had I actually selected one or two options differently, I would've gotten Tifa. When I totaled it all up, Aerith's score was only 3 points higher than Tifa's, if memory serves. So if I HAD selected differently in just one or two choices, I would've gotten Tifa.
And I would've done that without trying, either, since the first option wasn't always the one I liked best. You choose what you like in a situation like that -- in my case, I would've gotten Tifa had I chosen once, instead of going along with the first option. That's hardly going out of my way to get Tifa.
Um.... were any of those the first options? The first time I played, I gave Marlene the flower. The second time I played, I gave Tifa the flower. Why? To jazz it up. Not be repetitive. I chose. I had no idea at the time that it would add to Tifa's score, or that it would result in extra dialogue. I chose answers that I liked if I didn't like the first option, and that happened to mean I got Tifa.So you didn't deliberately pick to give Tifa the flower? You didn't deliberately take Tifa's underwear and you didn't deliberately say she's your girlfriend?
I find that hard to believe as you picked to show romance between them. :/
Big deal.
Woo.
It's a party.
I never once tried to say, "I'm gonna get TIFA this time!" In fact, I was surprised I got Tifa. I had expected it to be Aerith -- I thought that was a whole scripted scene, absent of any player influence. Only after, when I looked up a walkthrough, did I realize that all those replies determined the date.
First, link your sources.It seems very unlikely you didn't try to get Tifa since you have to consciously make the decisions to act romantic toward her.
Second, I'll assume this is from some dating guide.
Dating.
Guide.
You know what those look like, right? They say, "Do this, this, and this to get that." EVERY scenario is listed like that, including Aerith's. To look at the gamefaq's guide, it looks like you have to conciously go out of your way to not say anything to Aerith that will decrease her score, and to say everything to increase her score.
You don't need to select every option to increase her score and avoid every option that decreases her score. Same with the other three. Just because it's listed so comprehensively doesn't mean that you must make an exerted effort to get that particular outcome. You only really need the date guide anyway to get Yuffie and Barret -- which is what I used it for. Barret's date? HIL-ARIOUS!
I can use this same argument against you: I can quote a section of this guide with some of the detailed options you must pick to increase Aerith's score and say, "It seems very unlikely you didn't try to get Aerith since you have to consciously make the decisions to act romantic toward her."
It doesn't work that way. The Player chooses which options they like best and if that option adds to Tifa's or Aerith's scores, so be it. But no extreme effort is required. You don't consciously think, while playing the game, "Well, I want to date HER so I'll say everything nice to her." No. That doesn't happen. You just choose the response that you like best.
No, the C/A date is significant to one side and not the other; The C/T date is significant to one side and not the other. The two are mutually exclusive. Just because it means a lot to you doesn't mean it'll have the same meaning to everyone else.What? So if its not significant to the Cloti side, its not...important? I'm sorry, but how does that make sense...?
It doesn't matter if evidence isn't considered significant enough to one side of two sides. If we left what's important to be determined by one side and not the other, what's left to debate, hmm?
But going by that, what you and the Clotis think is significant or important to your "side", isn't really because its not significant to the Clerith's? Right...?
I'm talking about the same fictional sex scene I and Cali quoted and the same fictional sex scene we have been discussing recently. The one where Clotis think Cloud and Tifa did the nasty on sharp pointy rocks. :/
Yes...a lot of crazy stuff was cut, so why do Clotis like to use it? Could we also discuss that Tifa wasn't even suppose to be in the game if Clotis like to use pieces of cut story and scenes that doesn't really exist (I'm talking about the Highwind scene )? If that holds any relevance to the discussion, this Tifa tidbit should. Right?
Why bring up stuff that's been cut out of the story? Obviously it doesn't exist anymore and was decided it was bad for story. Why do Clotis hang onto a draft?
And this is exactly my point. Each side is likely to put incredible amounts of power in the least of actions. For example:
Cloud: Tifa, please pass the butter.
Tifa: Of course, Cloud.
Fan: OMFG MAKE ZE BABIES!!!!
See my point? And yes, what the Cloti's think is incredibly telling may not mean the same to the Clerith's. And what the Clarret's think is incredibly telling of their pairing won't mean the same to either Cloti's or Clerith's. This is what I've been saying all along. Too much is left up to personal interpretation, and won't translate the same implied meaning to one side as it does to the other.
Sure a lot of crazy stuff was cut, so why do the Clerith's like to use it? I've only seen mention of that stable scene ONCE. And that was two years ago. Yet I've seen on this very thread mention of scenes between Aerith and Cloud that I've never even heard before. The answer to your question is that BOTH SIDES, no matter what who they are, will resort to some truly desperate measures in attempts to prove that their pairing is the right one. This always happens. Always. Just ignore it and go on your way.
I could also argue that Aerith wasn't supposed to be in the game because she was supposed to be Sephiroth's sister, and since he has no sister, Aerith's couldn't possibly exist. It's a perpetual spiral that gets both sides nowhere, so lets not go down that yellow brick road, aye? Saves us both time, I promise. And the Highwind scene DOES exist, what it's implications are is up to the player. Needless to say, those implications can be.... exotic.
And will you please knock it off with the "Why do the Cloti's do this?" and "Why do the Cloti's do that?" What you're claiming that Cloti's do is, in fact, what every pairing does, not just limited to FF7. This includes Clerith's. I've once seen someone actually trying to verify the Clerith pairing by quoting a Clerith fanfic. That was about the point I started bashing my head on the table. I only brought up that cut scene that was in the draft because I was unsure of what you were referring to when you said, "romantic scene." I don't see the Highwind scene to be very erotic, so I was rather confused.
Don't look too much into it. I'm not claiming that it supports the pairing, or any pairing for that matter. Please remember that my being here is to argue that any pairing isn't very canon, and it's the individual opinion that really determines what is and isn't canon. For example, I don't like tragic couples. I just don't. It's a thing. So I like the idea of Cloud and Tifa better than I like the idea of Cloud and Aerith. Did I cite any information for that? Of course not. That's just my decision. I don't really feel the need to try and prove it to anyone because -- in all honesty -- your opinion on the outcome of the game will determine which pairing you like. And no one can convince you to like something you dislike -- like you trying to convince me that tragic couples are better. It isn't going to work. And there you have it.
Fair enough, no harm done, but know that a rabid fan mindset does not distinguish between the pairing at hand. Have you SEEN the debate raging between the romance between Yukimura and Kunoichi? INSANITY. It isn't even a game like that, it's a hack 'n slash game for crying out loud!I wasn't directing it personally at you, but at the Cloti mindset. I thought it was clear, I'm sorry if I had confused you. I hope I cleared myself up.
Yes and no. We are in agreement, but you misunderstand that Aerith's date is default. Its only optional once you force another date out of the situation so you no longer get the default date.
Creators have said it. Unless they come out again saying otherwise, that's how it is and will remain to be so...
Aerith's date is NOT default -- it's just easier. If it were default, I'd have to go out of my way to make it otherwise: Which I've clearly already established is not the case. And the creators didn't say it was default, they said it was basically typical. Not the same as default.
I say it doesn't make proof on the basis that I'm not trying to push ANY pairing here. It really is rather pointless to discuss in the LTD because it all depends on YOUR -- the player's -- personal choices and likes. We OBVIOUSLY know where allegiances stand here, so it's like saying that what you like is better than others because you like it.Wait, may I ask something? Who are you to say it doesn't make "proof"? Its important enough to discuss in the LTD.
It seems like nit-picking to me....
That is an entirely different comparison, Dragon Mage. Please don't play games with me.
Your cat comparison isn't a game created by a certain someone in which he/she clearly stated that certain "thing" was default and more normal than the others. Your comparison is that of personal opinion, but in this case the creators (the people who made the game lol) said it was default and normal.
Your comparison would have been better if it was, for example, God who had picked a cat.
It can be ended. Its the matter of which side will learn and accept? Oh...that and when SE/Nomura will stop trolling people and milking FF7. xD
No, it isn't an entirely different comparison. It's very true. Let's say that I like Coke. Whenever given the option, I drink Coke instead of Pepsi. Then I turn around and say that because I selected Coke, it's the real soda drink and Pepsi isn't a real soda. This is exactly what trying to use the date scene to prove a pairing is like. It's making an arbitrary claim based solely on biased evidence. You can't hope to prove something with that kind of evidence -- and mind you, this means Cloti's as well as Clerith's, no sides are exempt here.
And again. No one said it was default. That's just how you interpreted it. I interpreted it differently.
Which again leads me back to the same thing as before -- such evidence is so incredibly swayed by the individual's interpretation that it may as well be no proof at all.
I know how the LTD can be ended. It can be ended right now, in fact.
How about both sides just agree that both girls have the hots for Cloud and go draw funny pictures of them making him wear a dress? How about us fans, like the characters we so dearly love, just get along and not fuss about it any more? The day THAT happens is the day the LTD will finally come to a close -- it will no longer be needed.
Last edited: