Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[Fr4nk]

You can tell why most of the votes go towards Cloud + Aerith and i know the exact reason for that, The Reason is because since the beginning of the game i had a feeling the game was going to have a strong story connection between Cloud and Aerith as its hard to miss with the flashbacks cloud has in the game and also the emotion,connection he had with Aerith, I could go on and on but I'll keep it short since most people have probably mentioned some things I was going to say and i haven't played FF7 in a long time.
I think Cloud and Tifa would of worked well but she's probably more of a child friend to cloud and since they killed off Aerith he had no choice but to choose Tifa, I feel if they didn't have killed off Aerith the story would of went further between those two.
Hope my theory has made you guys think about it.

 

[Lirael]

After playing Crises Core, I was very much a ZackxAerith girl. Consequently, the idea of Aerith falling in love with Cloud seemed less ideal and less plausible, particularly when supported by the scene in Advent Children when Aerith walks towards Zack.

However, I am beginning to fall into the CloudxAerith club.

Reading through these posts, I do feel there is more evidence to support the idea that, although Aerith loved Zack originally and Cloud loved Tifa in his childhood, the two have since moved on and in FFVII find love together.

I believe Cloud and Tifa were childhood sweethearts. Tifa still harbours her past feelings for Cloud, but I'm not convinced Cloud feels the same way. The journey with Zack shifted his concerns and he grew distant from her. He becomes distant on the whole, really, until he meets Aerith. Whilst playing through the first few hours of the game, I couldn't help but feel that Cloud found Aerith a little strange, quirky, yet also sweet, cute and unique. I sensed that he was intrigued by her.

If my memory serves me, as Cloud and Aerith journey together, Cloud grows a little more positive and does open up. One could argue that Cloud and Aerith begin to find love through Zack. They both harbour memories of him, both love him and both lament his death. However, when they meet in FFVII, they can share in their grief and are also able to find something positive - Zack was heroic and whilst his death is tragic, he died fighting for what he believed in. His life, his efforts and his attitude should be celebrated. His role in their lives should be celebrated. They should move on, not forgetting him, but living happily as he would have wanted them to. I believe they do begin to do this, and they begin to fall in love.

SPOILER

Spoiler

Until Aerith dies! Cloud suddenly loses another loved one, someone else he feels he should have protected. He has not only lost the person he is falling in love with; he's over-ridden by guilt.

Oh yeah, Whether or not Cloud and Aerith quite reach that 'in love' stage is something I have yet to decide on... I feel they certainly head that way... I suppose this is partly why Cloud becomes so distant again! He hasn't fully healed before disaster strikes so hasn't found that strength within himself.

By the end of VII, I feel Tifa comes to accept Cloud's love for Aerith. When she says 'yeah, let's go and find her,' I feel she understands that Cloud loves her. She realises that she should support him in finding her because, ultimately, that's what will make Cloud happy and what will bring him peace. However, she is still very much in love with him and stays by his side to support him.

In Advent Children, I sensed that Tifa loves Cloud deeply, but has distanced herself a little and has learnt to live with Cloud as a close friend. However, because she loves him so deeply, his distant nature pains her. She longs to see him smile again...

When Aerith tells Cloud at the end of Advent Children that everything is alright, then walks towards Zack, she is perhaps telling Cloud that they are both happy and both watching over him - he doesn't need to feel guilty anymore. She helps him find peace, which is something Tifa can't do...

If Cloud was in love with Tifa, I feel she'd be able to alleviate his pain more. Cloud spends more time in the Aerith's church, doesn't he?

 

[Sheechiibii]

If Cloud was in love with Tifa, I feel she'd be able to alleviate his pain more. Cloud spends more time in the Aerith's church, doesn't he?

I don't want to start an argument just wanted to say that the way I see this is that Cloud still harbours a really strong guilt because of what happened the last time he saw her. That's why he spends time at the church and thinks of Aerith, because she was very dear to him and the circumstances of her spoiler left Cloud very much faced with guilt over what he'd done.

You mentioned how Cloud opened up during his journey with Aerith, but Tifa was on that journey too and there's nothing that really tells us whether Cloud was being helped by one girl or the other unless the player chose that via the options given. The connection between Cloud and Aerith at the start of the game is also heavily affected by the options the player picks.

I do think that Aerith liked Cloud romantically, but I think a lot of that is because he acts so like Zack, she actually mentions this to Cloud when they first meet. From Cloud's side however, I can't think of anything that indicates returned feelings unless it's input by the player. This is probably because the last time I played I never chose to entertain Aerith's affections and never had her in my party and as such barely saw her at all. In AC I distinctly got the feeling that Cloud and Tifa were a couple at that point but were having a lot of difficulties because of Cloud's regret, confusion, anger, guilt over all that had happened in the past.

Xx..xX

 

[Lirael]

You mentioned how Cloud opened up during his journey with Aerith, but Tifa was on that journey too and there's nothing that really tells us whether Cloud was being helped by one girl or the other unless the player chose that via the options given. The connection between Cloud and Aerith at the start of the game is also heavily affected by the options the player picks.

I do think that Aerith liked Cloud romantically, but I think a lot of that is because he acts so like Zack, she actually mentions this to Cloud when they first meet. From Cloud's side however, I can't think of anything that indicates returned feelings unless it's input by the player. This is probably because the last time I played I never chose to entertain Aerith's affections and never had her in my party and as such barely saw her at all. In AC I distinctly got the feeling that Cloud and Tifa were a couple at that point but were having a lot of difficulties because of Cloud's regret, confusion, anger, guilt over all that had happened in the past.

Xx..xX

You make very good points. Perhaps it's meant to be open to interpretation. People can choose their favourite pairing. That's rather good writing, actually, since it allows gamers to have a personal experience and they can believe in the couple they prefer. One could also argue that it's the two girls together which sort of draw Cloud out: the way they respond to him - there are times when Tifa and Aerith encourage one another to behave in a certain way as they fuss over him Both girls are open with him, which is what draws him out of his shell over time. Perhaps he falls in love with both as he perceives unique, beautiful qualities in both.

I really do need to complete FFVII. I have not yet reached the fateful moment with Aerith.

 

[The Witch]

If Cloud was in love with Tifa, I feel she'd be able to alleviate his pain more. Cloud spends more time in the Aerith's church, doesn't he?

Wow, Judy. I think you have a very well written and ACCURATE detailing of everything. You had me gushing as I read it!

And yes, he does spend a lot of time in Aerith's church, BEFORE and AFTER he gets geostigma. There's also a quote from one of the ultimanias stating that Cloud can hear Aerith's soft whispers there and that he feels at "peace" there.



And since Clerith points have been debated twice now I am going to reply...

You mentioned how Cloud opened up during his journey with Aerith, but Tifa was on that journey too and there's nothing that really tells us whether Cloud was being helped by one girl or the other unless the player chose that via the options given.

That's not true. It was Aerith that Cloud decided to protect for NOTHING at all. It was only AFTER Aerith was kidnapped by Tseng that Cloud was willing to risk himself for someone else, even Barret mentions this and says what a shock it is. Aerith was the only girl Cloud told in the entire game that HE was there for HER. None of those scenes are optional, they're the only choices and they forced on the player and they do indicate that Cloud only opened up to Aerith or at least that SHE was the starting point for him opening up.

Goodness, Tifa herself even says that Cloud becomes more reticent after Aerith's death. That says a lot about Cloud's openness.

The connection between Cloud and Aerith at the start of the game is also heavily affected by the options the player picks.

Some nonoptional romantic scenes/facts between Cloud and Aerith during VII are:

1. Cloud saying that her eyes are impressive and that her smile is a good purchase
   
2. Cloud saying that meeting her was amazing
3. Cloud ACCEPTING the date that Aerith offers him
   
4. Cloud breaking that bad boy "I don't care about anyone else" attitude and caring about someone else for the first time, who happens to be Aerith.
5. Cloud risking his own life and freedom just to save her "by all means".
   
6. Cloud telling Aerith that HE'S there for her.
   
7. Cloud's heart shattering at her death (as stated in the official novella).
   
8. Cloud telling Sephiroth that his plan to destroy the world means nothing now that Aerith is gone.
   
9. Cloud saying that he's fighting to unfreeze Aerith's smile.
   
10. Cloud saying he thinks about Aerith a lot.
    
11. Cloud saying that he'll never hear Aerith's laugh again (missing it).
    
12. Cloud saying that Aerith's smile was like a flower.
    
13. Cloud sharing a two person world with Aerith, which Tifa is jealous of.
    
14. Cloud and Aerith having an AFFINITY and Marriage prediction, saying that their stars are PERFECT for one another.
    
15. A piece of Cloud being gone after losing Aerith (stated in DISMANTLED).
    
16. Cloud telling Tifa that he wants to meet Aerith in the promised land.
    
17. Cloud asking Aerith who he is.
    
18. Cloud hearing/feeling Aerith in his soul.
    
19. Cloud feeling at peace in Aerith's church.
    
20. Cloud's first laugh/smile was with Aerith.
    

There's more but that would mean I include a longer list involving the rest of the compilation and I just wanted to provide what was in VII. But if you want to go on the "optional" basis, then what are some non-optional scenes between Cloud and Tifa during VII that makes you think he lovers her? D:

I do think that Aerith liked Cloud romantically, but I think a lot of that is because he acts so like Zack, she actually mentions this to Cloud when they first meet.

10 Quotes To Put the “Aerith loves Zack!” argument to rest.
​

• 1. “Cloud is the woman’s(Aerith's) friend, lover (koibito)—-a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect.” CASE OF LIFESTREAM: WHITE
  

• 2. “Although called my first love, that doesn’t mean that we(Zack&Aerith) became particularly intimate. I encountered him by chance as a flower vendor in Midgar. It was good for a little while, so I thought.” - DISMANTLED

• 3.”At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack,“ - AERITH ABOUT LOVING CLOUD IN DISMANTLED

• 4. “Despite his cold behavior in several scenes, Cloud is essentially popular with members of the opposite sex. In addition to FFVII’s heroines Tifa and Aerith both having feelings for him,” - 10th ANNIVERSARY ULTIMANIA

• 5. “FFVII: Both Aerith, who is forthright, and Tifa, who is demure, have feelings for Cloud but he is none the wiser to them.” - CLOUD’S CHARACTER PROFILE, 10th ANNIVERSARY ULTIMANIA

• 6. “Even though Aerith perceived that Cloud had lost sight of his true self, she still has great affection for him. As an Ancient, Aerith had planned to accomplish the mission. On the one hand, her last concern is Cloud.” -AERITH’S CHARACTER PROFILE, 10th ANNIVERSARY ULTIMANIA

• 7. “Both of them share feelings for Cloud — Tifa was close to Aerith, who can also be called a love rival. With that point in mind, they were also good friends. Nevertheless, it is not hard to imagine that she carries complex feelings as a woman toward Aerith, who had built up a special bond with Cloud that was different from Tifa’s.” -TIFA’S CHARACTER PROFILE, 10th ANNIVERSARY ULTIMANIA

• 8. “So you won’t have a breakdown..” Aerith appears in Cloud’s dream, and she seems to console him with such advice. This line can infer that Aerith has seen through to the essence of Cloud. -PG.156 FFVII ULTIMANIA OMEGA

• 9. “Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaved like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.” -PG.31 FFVII ULTIMANIA OMEGA

• 10. “Aerith was in even greater pain when she thought about Cloud. She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren’t similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person… But it soon didn’t matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn’t get away from danger. She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him. She wanted to stay by his side forever if she could. She really wanted to.“ -MAIDEN OF THE PLANET

So, Aerith loved Cloud for who he was, genuinely and undoubtedly. No ifs ands or buts

From Cloud's side however, I can't think of anything that indicates returned feelings unless it's input by the player.

Some nonoptional romantic scenes/facts between Cloud and Aerith during VII are:

1. Cloud saying that her eyes are impressive and that her smile is a good purchase
   
2. Cloud saying that meeting her was amazing
   
3. Cloud ACCEPTING the date that Aerith offers him
   
4. Cloud breaking that bad boy "I don't care about anyone else" attitude and caring about someone else for the first time, who happens to be Aerith.
   
5. Cloud risking his own life and freedom just to save her "by all means".
   
6. Cloud telling Aerith that HE'S there for her.
   
7. Cloud's heart shattering at her death (as stated in the official novella).
   
8. Cloud telling Sephiroth that his plan to destroy the world means nothing now that Aerith is gone.
   
9. Cloud saying that he's fighting to unfreeze Aerith's smile.
   
10. Cloud saying he thinks about Aerith a lot.
    
11. Cloud saying that he'll never hear Aerith's laugh again (missing it).
    
12. Cloud saying that Aerith's smile was like a flower.
    
13. Cloud sharing a two person world with Aerith, which Tifa is jealous of.
    
14. Cloud and Aerith having an AFFINITY and Marriage prediction, saying that their stars are PERFECT for one another.
    
15. A piece of Cloud being gone after losing Aerith (stated in DISMANTLED).
    
16. Cloud telling Tifa that he wants to meet Aerith in the promised land.
    
17. Cloud asking Aerith who he is.
    
18. Cloud hearing/feeling Aerith in his soul.
    
19. Cloud feeling at peace in Aerith's church.
    
20. Cloud's first laugh/smile was with Aerith.
    

Can you show me non optional scenes of "romance" of Cloud --> Tifa? D: & Besides, if there was "nothing" between Cloud and Aerith, then why is Tifa jealous of her so much?

 

[Sheechiibii]

@The Meddler: Truthfully I personally don't have any proof to back up what I've said, the things I mentioned were only what I remembered from the game and my feelings on that. I can't tell you a list of non optional Cloti moments because every time I've played the game I've played it with Tifa in my party and I've always been nicer to her than Aerith, so I don't know what comes up and what doesn't as far as non optionals. Truthfully I am sceptical about all those points you listed - some aren't even romantic (thinking of her a lot, of course he would after what happened) - because I just finished playing the game about a month or so ago and I swear I saw her at the beginning of the game but after leaving Midgar barely saw her until the Temple of the Ancients and half of that list I can't remember ever having happened. I felt I should respond to you though, because you took the time to give really detailed points for Clerith and I needed to acknowledge that, but the truth is I'm not enough of a fan of FFVII to go and find proof to debate with you I hope someone else will reply in my place who knows more about what they're talking about though

Xx..xX

 

[The Witch]

^Well, I understand that
You could always join Kira's Cloti club and discuss there to become more aware of Cloti points, though. But I disagree that what I listed isn't romantic. Since you singled out one specific thing I want to comment on it, Cloud is the only one said to think of Aerith a lot, and she's the only one he does think about a lot. He watched Zack die and felt it was his fault so why not think about Zack all the time too?

I think you missed out on a lot of details on who Cloud's love is because you just refused to allow Aerith to have a chance. Like you said, you ignored Aerith and avoided any interactions with her at all costs--it's no wonder you feel the way you do about the LTD. If only you allowed BOTH women to interact with Cloud you'd see how differently he treated Aerith. :C

 

[Gaz]

Woah, hello forums!

If Cloud was in love with Tifa, I feel she'd be able to alleviate his pain more. Cloud spends more time in the Aerith's church, doesn't he?

This is really how I feel about it all.

I think every pairing here has something going for it (Zack and Aerith did date for awhile, even) but I don't think anything's been permanently written in stone. I do see Cloud loving Aerith though. I saw a big connection between them that he didn't really have with anybody else, but that's just me.

 

[Sheechiibii]

^Well, I understand that
You could always join Kira's Cloti club and discuss there to become more aware of Cloti points, though. But I disagree that what I listed isn't romantic. Since you singled out one specific thing I want to comment on it, Cloud is the only one said to think of Aerith a lot, and she's the only one he does think about a lot. He watched Zack die and felt it was his fault so why not think about Zack all the time too?

I think you missed out on a lot of details on who Cloud's love is because you just refused to allow Aerith to have a chance. Like you said, you ignored Aerith and avoided any interactions with her at all costs--it's no wonder you feel the way you do about the LTD. If only you allowed BOTH women to interact with Cloud you'd see how differently he treated Aerith. :C

I believe that Cloud's thinking of Aerith a lot is because of the guilt, it's different with Zack because there was no reason to believe he was responsible for it. The last time Cloud saw Aerith

Spoiler

he battered her,

she was a good friend of his and he hurt her like that and then never saw her again, I think it'd be strange if he didn't think about her.

The first time I played the game I played it equally, I knew nothing about the game, hadn't seen any spoilers back then and so played it on neutral ground. After the first playthrough I always got the feeling it was Tifa he was meant to be with and so since then have been more biased.

Like I said though, I haven't played the game that many times (twice) and don't love it enough to really get into the discussion. I've never seen a proper LTD discussion (argument) so will probably just sit back and watch from now on.

Xx.xX

 

[The Witch]

I believe that Cloud's thinking of Aerith a lot is because of the guilt, it's different with Zack because there was no reason to believe he was responsible for it.

But Cloud DOES feel guilt for Zack, and he DOES blame himself. Nomura (the creator) has said it. So... if both Zack and Aerith are just friends to Cloud, how come Cloud clearly treats one much much different? Like I said, we don't see Cloud saying he thinks of other friends that have passed away a lot, or recalling their little actions and missing them. I do not think that Aerith is friend zoned here, if she was--Cloud wouldn't act this way over her specifically, especially if she's supposedly just a friend to him, like Zack was.

The last time Cloud saw Aerith

Spoiler

he battered her,

she was a good friend of his and he hurt her like that and then never saw her again, I think it'd be strange if he didn't think about her.

I understand that. But, after he beat her, Cloud met up with Aerith in his dream in the forgotten forest--during that scene he tells her that he's sorry for hurting her and Aerith tells him that he shouldn't worry about--he already got closure for that moment(hitting her) so it's not what fuels his actions/words/feelings towards her during and after her death. His guilt that he carries for her is caused because he thinks he failed to protect her. He feels that he "let her die" (as stated by Cloud himself in AC). It's her just being gone that gives him guilt, as he tells Tifa in COT his problem will never go away because he can't make somebody "unlose their life".

The first time I played the game I played it equally, I knew nothing about the game, hadn't seen any spoilers back then and so played it on neutral ground. After the first playthrough I always got the feeling it was Tifa he was meant to be with and so since then have been more biased.

But you said yourself that you never took Aerith with you and never had her tag along and chose to always be extra nice to Tifa over Aerith... that's not neutral.

Like I said though, I haven't played the game that many times (twice) and don't love it enough to really get into the discussion. I've never seen a proper LTD discussion (argument) so will probably just sit back and watch from now on.

Xx.xX

Alright. I guess just, like, disregard this post then.

 

[Sheechiibii]

But you said yourself that you never took Aerith with you and never had her tag along and chose to always be extra nice to Tifa over Aerith... that's not neutral.

The last time I played I never took her with me or chose her over Tifa. The first time I played I knew nothing about anything and was neutral, something in that first game made me prefer Cloti and since then the one other time I've played it I played it more towards her.

Xx..xX

 

[Ilyena]

​*Threads Merged*

 

[GreyGardens]

What’s clear to me is that Squaresoft wanted Aerith to be the heroine of Final Fantasy VII from the very beginning. The opening scene of the game revolves around Aerith, with the “Loveless” sign appearing above her. The juxtaposition of Aerith walking the streets of Midgar, with Cloud simultaneously jumping from the train, sets these two up as the primary characters and love interest of Final Fantasy VII.


The creators of Final Fantasy VII have stated that Aerith, Barret and Cloud were the original three characters created for the game. This confirms, to me anyway, that Squaresoft always intended Aerith to be the central female character and love interest for Cloud. Just look at the original and official artwork Squaresoft produced. It’s all of Cloud and Aerith together! So the bottom line is this: virtually every Final Fantasy game has official artwork of the two intended love interests. Final Final VII’s original artwork shows Cloud and Aerith. ‘Nuff said.


Given the importance of Aerith during the opening scene, and the fact that Aerith was one of the three original characters, points to the theory that Cloud and Aerith were meant to be together from the start. Sadly, I’ve discovered on numerous forums that the majority of Final Fantasy VII fans prefer the pairing of Cloud and Tifa. This has led me to a state of shock and bewilderment. What seems so obvious to me —the pairing of Cloud and Aerith— is not what the majority of fans see.


From beginning to end, I always felt Cloud and Aerith were meant to be together. Cloud chose to be Aerith’s bodyguard with the promise of one date. When Tifa asked Cloud to join AVALANCE, he only did so when Barret promised him a large sum of money. See the difference?


And while Cloud was growing up, him and Tifa were childhood acquaintances, not friends or lovers. Tifa ignored Cloud when they were kids, and they only had one conversation together — a conversation Cloud doesn’t remember. During this conversation, Cloud makes a friendly promise to Tifa, a promise Tifa begged Cloud to make. Hardly a childhood romance.


The facts are, Cloud only laughed and cried for one character — Aerith. This suggests his emotional connection to Aerith was deeper than his emotional connection to Tifa. When Aerith dies Cloud exclaims: “My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”


The fact remains, Aerith is the only character Cloud comes close to revealing his true feelings for. In Cosmo Canyon Cloud says, “But, I’m —I mean— we’re here for you, right?”…The reason Cloud comes close to revealing his true feelings for Aerith is because of the wonderful chemistry and love the two have together.


Those that say Aerith was meant for Zack are also mistaken. Aerith states that she recognizes Cloud is different than Zack, saying to Cloud, “But you’re different. Things are different…” — Aerith loved Cloud for who he was and recognized that the past was the past. Aerith also states in the game that she wasn’t in a serious relationship with Zack, and that he was a ladies man who had probably moved on. In addition, during Aerith and Cloud’s Golden Saucer date, Aerith claims that she wants to get to know the ‘real’ Cloud.


And finally, the official commercial approved and released by Squaresoft states: “A love that could never be…” — obviously referring to Cloud and Aerith. Cloti supporters can dispute this all they want, but the official commercial approved by Squaresoft includes the word “Love” during the scene when Cloud holds Aerith in his arms. I need no more proof than that. But if all this still doesn’t convince you, just go look at the official artwork.


I’ll end this with…
Cait Sith:
“Looks good. You are perfect for each other!”
“Aerith’s star and Cloud’s star! They show a great future!”
—You can claim Cait Sith isn’t always accurate with his predictions, but this was obviously an attempt by Squaresoft to further illustrate that Cloud and Aerith were meant to be together—
Cait Sith: “Poor Tifa!”

Why The Lifestream article is wrong! The Love Triangle debate is NOT over!
Here is a link to the false article: http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...9/this-just-in-the-love-triangle-debate-over/


1. All of the romantic couples shown on the Romantic Couples page in the Ultimania are not in variable scenes, except Cloud x Tifa and Cloud x Aerith. So although the Romantic Couples page shows all of the romantic Final Fantasy couples, the Ultimania makes sure to point out on page 232 that the pairing of Cloud and Tifa is an optional romance depending on which Highwind scene occurs. Omitting Tifa and Cloud from a page discussing Final Fantasy romance because the couple is based on a variable scene doesn’t make sense, but does warrant a distinction. A distinction Square was happy to give us.




2. Why would Square point out this distinction on page 232 if it wasn’t a valid distinction? I’ll tell you why: because it is a valid distinction. It’s a valid distinction because Final Fantasy VII is a story that incorporates the use of a love triangle. Square wants all of us to understand that although the other Final Fantasy couples are NOT optional; Tifa and Cloud are, in fact, an optional romantic couple that depends on which Highwind scene occurs. 




3. Square also included a picture of Aerith and Cloud on the Romantic Couples page. Cloud is the only character shown with two different women, and he is also the only character show in two variable scenes (his scene with Aerith is the variable date scene, and his scene with Tifa is the variable Highwind scene). This seems to follow along with the idea that Cloud is in a love triangle and that it is up to each player to decide who he loves more. Why else would Square show Cloud with two women in two variable scenes on the Romantic Couples page? I’ll tell you why: Square wants to show that Cloud has love for both women and that it is each players choice to decide who he loves more. 




4. Most everyone would agree that Cloud loves Tifa to some degree. This page is simply stating what we already knew based on the high affection Highwind scene. It is also stating the obvious because Cloud is involved in a LOVE TRIANGLE. Cloud loves both women.




-But how does Cloud’s love for Tifa take away from his love for Aerith?


-Hasn’t the story of FFVII always been about a man who loves two women?

-How does the high affection Highwind scene prove Cloud loves Tifa more than Aerith?

-Did Cloud’s love for Aerith simply disappear after this scene takes place?




These questions have always been at the very crux of this debate, and have yet to officially be answered by Square. All Square officially said was that Cloud loves Tifa in the optional HIGH AFFECTION Highwind scene (they point out this distinction clearly on page 232). So in my mind, all Square did was confirm what we already knew: that Cloud loves Tifa if you play the game a certain way. Square did not say, however, that Cloud doesn’t have a separate love for Aerith — a love that is clearly established throughout the game and is at the very core of the love triangle. This is also why a picture of Cloud and Aerith is also included on the Romantic Couples page.




5. Square has always given mixed messages about who the canon couple is for Final Fantasy VII on purpose because the story of Final Fantasy VII revolves around a love triangle. It is a story about a man who loves two women for different reasons, and the level of love, and the kind of love he has for each woman is purely a matter of opinion and the decisions each player makes during the game. This is why Square employed the use of affection points! The Romantic Couples page in the Ultimania is simply more evidence that Square has always given us mixed messages.




6. In many ways, I feel as though the low affection Highwind scene is more accurate judging by the relationship shown between Cloud and Tifa in Advent Children. I just can’t help but feel that the relationship shown in Advent Children is anything but romantic. Barret is also apart of Cloud and Tifa’s family, and nowhere does it show any intimate scenes between Tifa and Cloud. If anything, it appears as if Tifa and Cloud have a complicated and sometimes hostile friendship with one another.




Also in Advent Children, Cloud’s feelings toward Aerith are shown to be of guilt and remorse. But I also think they are feelings of love, and a desire for this love to continue in the Promise Land. In numerous material that Square has released since Final Fantasy VII, it shows Cloud searching for the Promise Land due to his guilt and desire for forgiveness. But Cloud’s guilt and remorse seem directly linked, in my opinion, to his never-ending infatuation, love and quest to be with Aerith in the Promise Land.


7. This all boils down to a matter of opinion and that’s why this debate continues to rage on. For anyone to use this single page as the end-all-be-all in declaring which couple is canon doesn’t make sense to me. And I don’t think Square intended for it to be used that way, especially because of the distinction on page 232 that they provided.



I also don’t believe that one single page in the Ultimania proves Square officially believes Cloti is canon. It just doesn’t add up to me. If they truly wanted to come out with an official position, I don’t think they would have chosen to do it so ambiguously on one single page (a page, I might add, that’s in Japanese and could easily be missed by millions of Final Fantasy VII fans). If they were to make such a bold declaration, I believe they would have done it differently and probably through a different platform. I also don’t think they would have included a picture of Cloud with Aerith on the same page!


The importance of this page seems to be over inflated; but I can understand why considering how long this debate has been raging. 

I truly believe if you asked Square about the page personally, they would be shocked to find out so much hoopla has been made over it. I don’t think they ever intended for this page to be used as official evidence to declare that Cloti is canon.


Cloud is the only main character on the Romantic Couples page to be shown with two different women in two variable scenes. If that doesn’t show that Square is continuing with the love triangle idea, I don’t know what does.

It should seem obvious to anyone that Square purposely included Cloud with two women in two variable scenes to continue along with the love triangle idea.

Clerith forever! Aerith is, afterall, ENGRAVED in his heart according to Square.


Mod Edit: I merged your posts. In the future, if you feel you need to add more to a post there is an edit button at the bottom. Thanks. =)

 

[The Witch]

From beginning to end, I always felt Cloud and Aerith were meant to be together. Cloud chose to be Aerith’s bodyguard with the promise of one date. When Tifa asked Cloud to join AVALANCE, he only did so when Barret promised him a large sum of money. See the difference?

!
I completely agree! To me, this really showed me that Cloud felt strongly for Aerith. Why else would he accept to be a stranger's bodyguard(for practically free) but then made someone he knew(tifa) practically beg for him to help them?

I think Cloud felt something click in him and I think he felt the connection and that's why he was willing to protect her so easily.

And while Cloud was growing up, him and Tifa were childhood acquaintances, not friends or lovers. Tifa ignored Cloud when they were kids, and they only had one conversation together — a conversation Cloud doesn’t remember. During this conversation, Cloud makes a friendly promise to Tifa, a promise Tifa begged Cloud to make. Hardly a childhood romance.

This!
I am SO happy someone else brought this up. One of the biggest misconceptions for VII is that Cloud and Tifa were friends... when they weren't. Like you said, they were acquaintances. Cloud only knew her from a distance, and besides the ONE time they spoke at the well scene, they never spoke before that. One time speaking does not make them friends, especially if all Tifa could talk about was her dream for ANY knight to come and save her, it just so happened to be Cloud that was aiming to be a first class soldier. Tifa would have made that promise to anyone.

And like you said again, Cloud didn't even remember the promise that Tifa strong armed him into--she had to remind him of it.

The facts are, Cloud only laughed and cried for one character — Aerith. This suggests his emotional connection to Aerith was deeper than his emotional connection to Tifa. When Aerith dies Cloud exclaims: “My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!”

The fact remains, Aerith is the only character Cloud comes close to revealing his true feelings for. In Cosmo Canyon Cloud says, “But, I’m —I mean— we’re here for you, right?”…The reason Cloud comes close to revealing his true feelings for Aerith is because of the wonderful chemistry and love the two have together.

I could not agree more! Another fine sign of their chemistry is that there is an official quote of the creators saying that Cloud and Aerith have a wedding in the future and that their stars are perfect for eachother. I think this shows very clearly the wonderful romantic connection between them.

And finally, the official commercial approved and released by Squaresoft states: “A love that could never be…” — obviously referring to Cloud and Aerith. Cloti supporters can dispute this all they want, but the official commercial approved by Squaresoft includes the word “Love” during the scene when Cloud holds Aerith in his arms. I need no more proof than that. But if all this still doesn’t convince you, just go look at the official artwork.

I could not agree more! I never really cared for any excuses fans have made to explain the commercials--the fact of the matter is that Square Enix(soft) approved three different commercials saying that Cloud and Aerith are a love story.

The creators didn't make a mistake three times and publish something they didn't want. They knew that the commercials said;

The north American version: A story of a love
The European Commercial: A bitter war of love and hate (love appears while showing Cloud reaching towards Aerith & hate appears while showing Sephiroth)
The French Commercial: An Impossible love story

Square knew very well what these commercials portrayed to buyers and they approved them.



6. In many ways, I feel as though the low affection Highwind scene is more accurate judging by the relationship shown between Cloud and Tifa in Advent Children. I just can’t help but feel that the relationship shown in Advent Children is anything but romantic. Barret is also apart of Cloud and Tifa’s family, and nowhere does it show any intimate scenes between Tifa and Cloud. If anything, it appears as if Tifa and Cloud have a complicated and sometimes hostile friendship with one another.

I couldn't agree more. This conclusion of hostility between Cloud and Tifa is even more apparent when you read the novella Case of Tifa. In that book (and I'm probably telling you something you already know because you seem really well rounded in the LTD) Tifa has to force herself to talk to Cloud and on top of that, Cloud just stops paying attention to her entirely. I do not think this is healthy for a couple and I don't think this shows Cloud and Tifa in love either. In fact, I feel it shows the complete opposite--Cloud and Tifa are terrible for each other.

Clerith forever! Aerith is, afterall, ENGRAVED in his heart according to Square.

With an UNDYING feeling for her that is different from the platonic love of their friends.

Also, I agree about everything you said about the TLS article. It's a load of hooey. But have you ever heard of the Dismantled quote of Aerith recalling her and Cloud's date in the dream scene that Cloud has in the forgotten city? She tells Cloud that she'll never forget their date at gold saucer or him. It might just be me, but doesn't it prove the Clerith date is the canon outcome if the date is spoken of in a canon scene?

 

[Six]

Lets get a few things straight here, people.

Cloud was the one that invited Tifa over to the well. What you think of 'her forcing him to make that promise' is a matter of opinion, and how you read the dialogue. I don't think, a guy who is crazy about her, 1: would come over with the "huh" as if he didn't know what she was talking about, rather be surprised she's asking. Her "come oooon-- promise meee--" might as well be a simple play around with him asking huh and being surprised, she's like "Come on, don't act so surprised, just promise! " I don't think anyone against the CloudxTifa pairing ever looks at it like that, but they do double back up the fact that he 'agreed' to date Aerith in return to be her bodyguard?

Sorry, his fingers flicking thing coulda just been a "So you expect me to pay a date, and be your bodyguard?", rather shallow, right? So why even assume it was forced? Really guys, they were teenages. Get it together.

I definitely agree with SE making it a LTD on purpose, who knows that the intended pairing could/should've been, maybe it was Aerith, but they decided that that wouldn't work, after all, they considered AerithxSephiroth as well, so who knows, maybe they brought Tifa in not just for having another female, but for having the main character "Cloud" have an actual Love interest. Questions, and assumptions, people.

Either way, I should really start reading some more sites and stuff to get in to full detail, but to be quite frank I haven't in ages, therefor no quotations of book length in my post.

 

[The Witch]

The Meddler, you should join this very active Cloud x Aerith board.

I already am! I'm Calilily over there. What's your account there?

Cloud was the one that invited Tifa over to the well.

We're not denying that. He had a dim crush on her, it's no surprise he wanted to ask the most popular girl in town out to the popular date place. Lots of guys before Cloud called Tifa out to the well and even had ongoing letters with her that doesn't mean it's true love.

What you think of 'her forcing him to make that promise' is a matter of opinion, and how you read the dialogue. I don't think, a guy who is crazy about her, 1: would come over with the "huh" as if he didn't know what she was talking about, rather be surprised she's asking. Her "come oooon-- promise meee--" might as well be a simple play around with him asking huh and being surprised, she's like "Come on, don't act so surprised, just promise! "

The creator himself said she strong armed him, though.

Sorry, his fingers flicking thing coulda just been a "So you expect me to pay a date, and be your bodyguard?", rather shallow, right? So why even assume it was forced?

Not really. He actually shakes his head up and down--which is a common show of approval. There's several quotes stating that it's because of the promise for one date with Aerith that Cloud accepts to become her bodyguard. So... if her date is the reason he accepted to protect her then that means he accepted her offer for payment(the date).

Really guys, they were teenages. Get it together.

Who Cloud and Tifa during the well? or Cloud and Aerith during the bodyguard church scene? Cuz Cloud was 21 and Aerith was 22.

maybe it was Aerith, but they decided that that wouldn't work, after all, they considered AerithxSephiroth as well,

Yes, they considered SephirothxAerith but why did they? because they wanted to build on Cloud's love FOR Aerith.

 

[Ilyena]

Let's stick to the thread topic please. Advertising is not allowed outside of the advertising board. Thanks.

 

[EnigmaPhenomenon]

I'm not going to say which one is canon or the true couple or even who was intended as the couple, because the game has been changed so many times before the finalized version. I will say that Cloti makes the most sense. I don't think the real Cloud was ever IN love with Aerith, I believe only his false persona was. However, I KNOW that to real Cloud, Aerith was an extremely important person to him.

I believe Cloud genuinely cared for Aerith in general. I think Cloud is romantically interested in Tifa still, but I think Tifa and Cloud are those people who would be too afraid to be in a relationship with each other, like...making it official.

They live together, they raise kids together, they at some point shared their mutual feelings to each other, but as for them being boyfriend and girlfriend it just seems like they wouldn't label themselves as it. If that makes any sense. Friends but at the same more than friends...Sorry if that's confusing >.>U

I am a Cloti, and Cloti does make sense...but Nomura himself doesn't even know.

 

[Saints&Storms]

I'm not going to say which one is canon or the true couple or even who was intended as the couple, because the game has been changed so many times before the finalized version. I will say that Cloti makes the most sense. I don't think the real Cloud was ever IN love with Aerith, I believe only his false persona was. However, I KNOW that to real Cloud, Aerith was an extremely important person to him.

That's actually not true at all not only has Nomura himself said that Aerith knew the real Cloud and saw through his "fake persona" which was only half who he was, the REAL Cloud came through a lot of times; this again has been stated by the man but I can't see how Cloud faking a persona interferes with the way he FELT; the way he acted had absolutely no influence on his memories and feelings toward Aerith. The two things just don't interfere.

I believe Cloud genuinely cared for Aerith in general. I think Cloud is romantically interested in Tifa still, but I think Tifa and Cloud are those people who would be too afraid to be in a relationship with each other, like...making it official.

I can't see how, how is it Cloud and Tifa make more sense or come off romantically involved; when one of the very "they are raising" said herself that the two of them Cloud/Tifa don't get along. I don't think Cloud's afraid to be in a relationship especially when he lies and runs away from her and doesn't even answer he phonecalls. Nothing about that makes sense :/

They live together, they raise kids together, they at some point shared their mutual feelings to each other, but as for them being boyfriend and girlfriend it just seems like they wouldn't label themselves as it. If that makes any sense. Friends but at the same more than friends...Sorry if that's confusing >.>U

I am a Cloti, and Cloti does make sense...but Nomura himself doesn't even know.

Marlene told Barret that they were adopting Cloud and Tifa even calls Cloud a big kid -- and one of those kids /Marlene even said that the two of them don't get along, I wouldn't call that raising kids together, especially when Cloud doesn't even answer her calls >.>

What, mutual feelings? I don't remember that, I remember Cloud being the "loser" of Nibelheim and having no friends least of all Tifa and a dim unrequited crush on her, I remember Cloud not even being good enough for her until he was going off the join SOLDIER.

I mean, I am not trying to jump down anyones throat but I hear these misinterpretations and things that never happened all the time; its both confusing and frustrating.

 

[Dragon Mage]

A friend was just asking me and he had a pretty good point....

Why is it 'Clouds' love triangle? Isn't it technically the FF7 love triangle? I mean, triangles must consist of 3 people, right? Seems unfair that Cloud get's the title.

My friend and I agree.

The title should be changed.

"The FF7 Love Triangle Debate"

Makes much more sense, IMO.

I mean, come on -- do you see any OTHER triangles going around? Let's see...

Cloud x Tifa x Barret.......no

Vincent x Hojo x Jenova..........ah, don't think so.

Ah, here's one!

Zack x Tifa x Aerith!............nah, two of them are dead.

Maybe...

Sephiroth x Jenova x Cloud..............

Something isn't right here....

Genesis x Angeal x Sephiroth?

Reno x Rude x Elena?

Vincent x Barret x Cid!?

Bahamut x Chocobo x Cloud's hair?



Yeah. I think the title should be changed.


P.S.

Aerith is, afterall, ENGRAVED in his heart according to Square.

Honestly, that's a bit disturbing.

I mean....

*picture of bloody, dripping heart with "AERIS --SE" carved into it*

Gruesome, yes?