Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[soldier first class]

Just to clarify the fact that I'm not saying Cloud and Tifa have to be together but rather saying that I hope they do and the fact that Aerith and Cloud still supposedly love each other doesn't mean that will last forever. Men are funny as I'm one myself and would know these things. SE may put a twist that none of us could see coming. However, if Cloud and Aerith are to be together then they might as well just have Sephiroth come back and fight alongside Genesis so they can wipe Cloud out and let him go be with her I completely understand that previous quotes really enlighten us all on the feelings the two have for each other but it still doesn't make it final. I think people are going to disagree on this until it's all brought to light anyhow. Oh and thanks for the previous media that was mentioned. Already started reading Maiden and looking into the other one(s).

 

[The Witch]

Well of course it doesn't make it final But all of it adds up to a conclusion. All the quotes I'm posting and all that, I know it doesn't canonize them by those quotes alone--but I guess I'm hoping that providing those sorts of things will tell people why I believe Cloud romantically loves/cherishes/yearns for Aerith.

I take it you won't be debating any longer, tho? :/

Well, okay.

(pss, I have a feeling Cloud will die in the next installment D: )

 

[Palom & Porom]

I really didn't care much for the love triangle between Cloud, Tifa and Aerith. It was one of my least favorite aspects of the game and it took up too much of it. I always imagined Sephiroth and Aerith somehow getting together, and imagine the surprise when Sephiroth was supposed to have been her first love during the game's development.

 

[Saints&Storms]

I really didn't care much for the love triangle between Cloud, Tifa and Aerith. It was one of my least favorite aspects of the game and it took up too much of it. I always imagined Sephiroth and Aerith somehow getting together, and imagine the surprise when Sephiroth was supposed to have been her first love during the game's development.

Yeah, I actually liked that original story too, it was actually still a Love Triangle then too only it was between Sephiroth, Aerith and Cloud, either way a Love Triangle existed. Only there was no Tifa, that was the only difference.

 

[Palom & Porom]

Yeah, I actually liked that original story too, it was actually still a Love Triangle then too only it was between Sephiroth, Aerith and Cloud, either way a Love Triangle existed. Only there was no Tifa, that was the only difference.

The story would have been incredible, IMO, if it had been between Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud. Aerith, her fellow "Cetra" love, and Cloud, a guy who somehow reminds her of him.

The possibilities there....

They added Zack at the last minute, too.

I'd be all for a new "what-if" or "reality unbound" type of retelling where this scenario could occur.

 

[The Witch]

Well, to be honest, the love triangle wasn't my main interest either... Cloud was. But I played through the game and was under the impression that Cloud romantically loved, cherished, and yearned for Aerith both before and after her death.

Cloud was a pretty emotionless guy to everyone around in the first disc and to see him open up to Aerith was really touching to see. I loved seeing his cold shell break around her and seeing him turn into this caring person. She really made him a better man, as apposed to his previous show of being kinda a jackhole to people around.

 

[HighwindPilot]

… Cloud meets Aerith and he out of nowhere grows a conscious about people's safety? It's after he meets Aerith and spends a few days with her (protecting her) that Cloud says/or does something for Tifa without forcing her to practically beg or pay him (the "of course, tifa" in Don's mansion is what I'm speaking of btw)I would say that's pretty significant. (unless I somehow forgot a scene where Cloud does something like this before the don scene as well? )

You didn’t see anything like that from Cloud before because there’s no comparable situation, which was my point with the whole “How do we know he wouldn’t do the same for Tifa?” argument. Cloud’s disinterest in the planet or a job with Eco-terrorists does not speak for his response to someone’s personal trouble. This is what we know: When Aeris faced personal danger he was willing to help her out. Once Tifa, too, found herself in a potentially dangerous situation, Cloud was willing to help out just the same.

You attribute the latter scenario to Aeris’ influence and use his initial attitude towards things as support while I, on the other hand, protest that those things are not of the same nature and, therefore, prove nothing. That’s where we stand. My whole point for bringing up the (mandatory) rescues of Jessie is that he’s not below helping someone out in personal peril even at the game’s start.

Saying "No, just no." isn't rude. It's me showing disagreement with what you said--as in your statement. I'm sorry if it came off as rude, though. I wasn't aware disagreeing with arguments was rude.

There’s no need to apologize, because I’m not offended. Just don’t act like it’s a simple means of disagreeing, unless you were out sick when your elementary school teacher(s) taught the etiquette of debate?

…Because Tifa was just as devoted to it as Barret was. I'm a little confused at how you can deny that part of the story?

Wow; dig up a single statement from me in which I have denied Tifa’s devotion to Avalanche. I’ll save you the trouble: I haven’t. But devotion to a cause does not equate to ownership. Again, she presented it to Cloud as a job and he took it as such, with Barret as his employer no less.

But the very next scene is Cloud upstairs, where he's about to leave when Tifa rushes to him and begs him to stick around and help, he says no and Tifa (using desperate measures) brought up their promise, hoping it would be enough to make him stay... kinda like a guilt trip. Then after she reminds him of the promise he forgot about, Barret throws his pay at Cloud and Cloud finally verbally agrees to help out again... but with money as his reward too.

I’m trying to figure out how to best summarize things, since this portion of your post and the subsequent blocks are all pretty much indicative of the same thing...

My gripe here is that you continue to make his initial rejection about Tifa when it in all likeliness had everything to do with what had gone on downstairs. At this point in the story he’s at complete odds with Avalanche and he has no real attachment to their mission statement in the first place. Tifa interjects with personal feelings here, yes, I’m sure I’ve attested to that numerous times, but the point is that these personal affairs were not shown to be his basis for departure. As such, even if she is asking, it is not as simple as turning her down as it is turning AVALANCHE down. And yes, I know she has her devotion to this cause, but as far as we know this is the first time she’s spoken up about her personal interest in his stay and that does not void all of the issues between Cloud and the group.

Even so, it’s by way of personal affairs that she ended up swaying him (even in part) to stay. I don’t care if this might be considered a guilt trip; the fact is that when she brought up the promise he no longer even motioned towards leaving.

Either way Cloud still wasn't willing to stick beside his friend's side and help her out this once, was he? Not really. He demanded pay in order to help out with one more mission on top of her guilt tripping him.

Do we know that it was merely one more mission? I don’t think so. Cloud merely told Barret the price for his next mission. And I’m pretty sure he did stick beside his friend for another time, there was just also a price for the job, the “morality” of which is something you and I will not agree on.

He's a mercenary. Mercenaries take jobs--any jobs. And here was a job willing to pay him AND he could be helping out his childhood friend at the same time--in yet he refused more than once to continue to do so. Cloud said it best himself, after he was going to get his pay from Barret
Cloud: "I don't care what your names are. Once this job's over... I'm outta here."

This is before anything is made personal. You can imagine all you want the type of off-screen conversations Cloud and Tifa had about the meaning of Avalanche but this is what we know: She presented it to him as a job; he accepted the job with Barret as his employer; Tifa interjects with personal feelings only once Cloud has decided to leave. So that comment about taking off is prior to the situation getting personal.

In fact, you would seem to agree with this line of thinking based on this comment:

But it WAS about helping out Tifa. The moment she said to Cloud "Listen, Cloud. I'm asking you. Please join us." was when the circumstances switched over to something personal Tifa was seeking his help in and for.

But you’d proceed to mention that he still says “No”, which, again, I contest was not simply a rejection of her feelings but of everything else up to that point. He had clearly already made up his mind, of course it was going to be difficult to change it, personal or not.

No one's saying it did have anything to do with her.

Okay! So then what does it matter that he said no if it wasn’t about her unless you’re under the impression that he should have based his answer solely on her (which would utterly ignore everything else at hand)?

But his "desire" to stay wasn't because of her alone either. Cloud likes the cash, I suppose.

Yes, one of intelligence would typically like compensation for their work.

I'm not denying that part of it was due to Tifa asking, just saying that it wasn't solely Tifa who made him stay.

Okay then, that’s all that needs to be said, because that this allows us to isolate our real disagreement. You feel that Cloud should have simply done the job with no compensation because it meant helping Tifa. I think that, in addition to helping Tifa, he was right to accept pay because Avalanche was still a job for him.

This disagreement has a big impact on our overlying viewpoints because you see his accepting money in this instance as a sign of cold behavior in contrast to the generosity he showed in a willingness to protect Aeris for no compensation, which means that he must have been attracted to her.

I, on the other hand, do not see his acceptance of money as anything cruel and, therefore, see no reason why he wouldn’t be willing to help a girl out in danger (like Aeris) even if no romantic implications are involved. I also see no comparison between seeing a girl home from chasers and repetitively sticking your neck out for a group and cause you don’t personally believe in.

We clearly will not agree on this.

On the request of his childhood friend Tifa, Cloud assists the anti-ShinRa organization “AVALANCHE” led by Barret. At first he has little interest in their goal of ‘protecting the planet’.
Aerith, who is pursued by ShinRa for her ability to hear the voice of the planet. Cloud’s meeting with her lead him on a new path. ~Cloud's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania

When they talk about protecting the planet it seems to me that they’re referring to the “big picture”, not instances like that of Sector 7, which has more to do with personal matters.

And you know, it’s interesting, because even though I’ve professed to agreeing with you on this matter (because I do feel that he came to care about the planet because of Aeris), I’m pretty sure Cloud contradicts these sentiments multiple times later. Just about any time I can think of in which the group discusses their reasons for journeying, Cloud almost always attributes his to settling the score with Sephiroth.

On the request of his childhood friend Tifa, Cloud assists the anti-ShinRa organization “AVALANCHE” led by Barret. At first he has little interest in their goal of ‘protecting the planet’. But after meeting Aerith, an Ancient, and reuniting with his fated rival Sephiroth, he throws himself fully into the battle to save the planet. ~Cloud's character profile, 10th Anniversary Ultimania
The first quote says even after Cloud stayed and helped due to Tifa's request he still had little interest in their goal of protecting the planet

It’s actually funny of you to point that out, because you’re inadvertently suggesting that it was because of Tifa that Cloud assists Avalanche. As you and the text point out, he had no interest in their objectives, but apparently helped out on the request of Tifa, hmm…

either way, the first quote helps prove Aerith is what got him invested in the planet's safety and the people on it so early in the game.

But how? It says after meeting Aeris and reuniting with Sephiroth, the latter of which didn’t happen until much later. Again, I think it’s clearly referencing the broader scope of things. Also, I don’t see one thing about “people”, though I suppose I could understand your inclusion of such as part of the planet (and Cloud in AC does say that bit about cherishing everything).

My bad, I worded that wrong. Yeah, I agree, it is because of Tifa bringing up the promise that Cloud finally says he'll stay but he's still doing it with money involved. For Aerith, Cloud just agreed to protect her for nothing at all. Again, that's the point in all of this, remember?

Right, and my point was/is that these situations are not comparable, and that there is nothing wrong with his acceptance of money (which I have accepted as an unyielding disagreement between us).

Whoa, there. Cloud standing there doesn't imply he's decided to stay.

Uh? My words exactly: “she asks him again if he’ll stay and he stands there with his head down before Barret appears and Cloud implies to them both that he’s agreed to stay.” Notice that I said after Barret appeared, by which time he did, in fact, let them know he would stay by talking about the next mission.

He didn't demand pay with Aerith. He just outta nowhere started to protect her.

Outta nowhere, huh? So it had nothing to do with the scary Shinra guy showing up and Aeris asking him about being a bodyguard which would indicate that she sees said man as a threat? Okay.

Yeah... what parts did you cut out, though? Because in debates you're supposed to counter all of it. I'm not sure what you just skipped past. It could have been good points on my part, even.

Oh boy. I clearly stated that I was cutting past that which was dreadfully *repetitive*. Anyone following this debate, whether invested in it or not, could see that the first half of each of our last few posts (including this one unfortunately) have all adhered to the same few points in a manner that has entailed reiteration and reemphasis. I got rid of that which had already been said.

That's SQUARE ENIX for you. They say contradictory stuff from time to time.

I’m just glad you can admit to that fact. It’s when they contradict stuff that there’s a problem. During such instances, I couldn’t care less about their intent if execution begs to differ.

But he would take precious school funds from a lil girl Tifa cares for?

Pretty sure Barret whispered that to Tifa (as indicated by parenthetical encasing) ; we don’t know that Cloud was even aware that the money was coming out of Marlene’s funds.

Quote? I would love to see that. And you're right. There is no canon couple.

A Final Fantasy VII fan interviewed Tetsuya Nomura for Dorimaga magazine and asked "How many girls has Sephiroth ever loved?"

Tetsuya Nomura: What kind of question is that? I've never thought about it. Honestly, I don't care who loves whom. I think you could imagine the scenarios that we don't mention however you want to. You could enjoy talking about that with friends. For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don't have any clue. ~Nomura interview, Dorimaga magazine,

If we can't use the developer's comments and statements in our debate... what sh

ould we use?

Uh? The material? Anyway, I have no problem with developer comments. It’s when their comments, half of which are made well after the original product’s release, contradict their work that it becomes pointless.

Does he? I remember it being optional for all three.

It’s not. One’s even a cut-scene.

He is though in the beginning.

Then what’s that with Jessie?

As you can clearly see, Cloud and Barret do not fight, nor is a fight between them the reason Cloud wants to "rage quit" the job. The moment the job begins is when Cloud declares that after the jobs over he's "outta there".

That’s my bad. I forgot that Cloud initially declared the first job as his only, so that stuff in the basement was after his mission was complete. That was obviously the fight I was referring to. The rest of the point remains.

You seem to be missing my point, though. Cloud should have accepted the job and stayed for free. like he did with Aerith. After all, it was Tifa who asked him to stay. That should be enough for Cloud... like it was with him and Aerith.

Um? What? No, it’s your opinion that he “should” have stayed. And I’m sure your retort is something along the lines, “well if he truly cares about Tifa”, which would again be your attempt to blend the business and personal aspects of things but the fact is Tifa does not equate to Avalanche and Cloud already had his mind set on leaving prior to her interjection of personal matters.

And yes, that was enough for Cloud to see Aeris home, and you have yet to properly illustrate how that is comparable to the job with Avalanche despite your claim that they are identical (in weight or otherwise).

Are you trying to compare the two scenes?

No, I’m comparing his behavior. Not once does Cloud suggest that he’ll stick around with or see Aeris again upon attempting to depart with her. I recognize that he was worried about her safety and such, but if he liked her as much as you claim at that point why was it so easy for him to part with her without any mention of seeing one another again?

But, if you play and watch Crisis Core-- Zack and Cloud kinda have a bromance going on.

Sounds like an exaggeration. How many scenes did the two have together prior to Hojo’s collection of them?

Again, I'm just saying we can't claim anything about anything unless we're ready to accept what other people conclude too.

Did I ever outright dismiss your opinion on the matter or did I offer my perspective? I’m pretty sure I started off my argument suggesting there were different levels of platonic relations, not by claiming, “I’m right, you’re wrong”.

There's nothing to suggest that Cloud feels deeper platonic feelings for anyone in avalanche more than the other, unless he's obviously in love with them.

You would think that if Zack really resonated with him the way others might he would not have completely erased his existence from memory to begin with. Even upon remembering him there was no big deal made about their friendship.

They live in a fantasy realm.

Wow, this coming from the girl who attempted to apply Freudian thought to psychoanalyze the character’s speech?

That's not why Tifa is "dodging" his question.

I never said it was.

She's dodging it because she can't fully explain how Cloud has memories of things he wasn't apart of. That's the whole point of that scene. To convey how Cloud's memories are messed up and aren't adding up with correct memories. Not to show... Cloud thinking it'd be great to hang with her.

I understand what the scene is meant to illustrate, but that doesn’t mean the latter concept is non-existent. Did Cloud’s not suggest to his self that it would have been great to see her alone? Did he not concur with this thought? Did she not inevitably dodge his question? The overall purpose of the scene does not refute the content.

And back to why we originally brought that up, you said Cloud and Tifa can love each other but not get together due to being fickle or shy... but Tifa has told Cloud how she feels. Like the above quote said. "....Tifa has expressed her feelings plainly to Cloud a number of times. ~Nojima; Reunion Files, pg. 20

When did she ever do this in-game? All we ever see throughout the course of FFVII are examples of what I’m referring to. At Cosmo Canyon, the Highwind scene, across their history we see a struggle of communication between the two.

In any case, back to my initial point, your “if–then-why” argument about the state of their relationship is not an argument. One could easily rebuttal that if Cloud loved Aeris, why doesn’t he simply say so? See why that’s a slippery slope?

No, Nojima is saying he's not going to talk about love and marriage. You completely just turned that quote into something else, something it's not even really saying.

Admittedly I remembered the quote wrong. I thought he said he didn’t intend to implement his views, which, coupled with his laughter, would seem to imply that he inevitably did so. Still, why does he use the word “intend” or even discuss such things if there’s no basis for romantic context in his story?

Did I hit a soft spot?

Not at all, that was just one of the more ridiculous claims you made because it transcends this silly LTD to imply that writers don’t possess foresight. Even the most self-righteous story-tellers take into account their audience. To suggest that there’s no such thing as appealing to a fan-base that has not yet been established is ridiculous, especially when Square had their experience with a triangle in the form of Rydia/Cecil/Kain and proceeded to do another (albeit lesser) one in Squall/Rinoa/Seifer.

They, of course, gave the option for the player, but SE seems to favor Cloud x Aerith as canon/default.

Because her points start higher? You do realize that this could be over-turned with like 3-4 decisions involving Tifa and that the player could have a pro-Tifa romance by the time you reunite with her after the fall right? Bear in mind that you spend more time with her than you do Aeris because you meet her first. I’d wager that this is the cause for Aeris’ higher base value, but who knows?

But let's play by your rules. You say we should dismiss this because it's done solely for Aerith because it's a "Aerith-centric" part of the game. You realize we can do that for just about anything pro-C/T, right?

Uh, yes, which is why I’m not the one who defaulted on why the developers decided included something. You did, however, after multiple people questioned your “belief” in Cait Sith, lol, who basically admits to Cloud and co the lengths to which he went through to tag along with their party as a spy.

Though, even then, it’s not quite the same since I don’t think Tifa ever has a mandatory slot alongside Cloud the way other members do.

Her end of the promise of him being a soldier is still intact.

Okay.

What Cloud did and said at Cosmo Canyon to Aerith...that is a Freudian slip.
"Probably" was thrown into the sentence by Cloud to show he wasn't sure if it would be as positive as he would think.

I’ll ignore for a second that we’re talking about characters in a video game and humor you. Use of the term “probably” could easily be attributed to Cognitive Dissonance on Cloud’s part, which is a conflict of behavior and attitude that would fit perfectly in the scene. Furthermore, “probably” in this case is used by the child form of an inner-Cloud, whom we know to be anti-social and shy (based on other Lifestream scenes), and he could easily slip in the word to off-set the boldness of his statement. Finally, “probably”, unlike “maybe”, is not so lofty and actually does indicate likeliness.

As for the “Freudian Slip” idea: The concept explains that the unintended-yet-honest word is supposed to stem from the “unconscious” if I’m not mistaken, or the “ID” as Freud referred to it. Both of which have been dismissed as rubbish by modern cognitive scientists (based on bio-psych finds). This is not unlike Freud his self actually, who, despite retaining his title as a “Godfather” of psychology, had most of his theories and ideologies ultimately belittled. As such, it’s interesting that you’d use a concept of his here. Have you taken Psychology? Honestly curious.

Question, did you read AerithG's post? She made a lot of good points.

I read her post.


Anyway, this thread no longer interests me in the slightest. I’ve pointed out the major points on which we disagree for interpretational reasons and I can accept that there’s no severing them. That’s fine with me, I’m done here anyway.

 

[The Witch]

Since you're not going to respond back, I suppose I shouldn't either? Unless you want me to?

I mean I have replies for all of it... but I don't feel like wasting my time if I don't get a reply back. And I'm in no way trying to badger you into posting here if you don't want to.

I guess we're going to agree to disagree.

 

[Lirael]

CloudxAerith vs. CloudxTifa (and ZackxAerith)

Okay, I expect to see a lot of debating in here. Let's be sure to keep it civil, and please use spoiler tags!

Which couple do you prefer? CloudxTifa or CloudxAerith?

Why?

Regardless of your preference, who do you think Cloud loves the most?

Does anyone here feel Aerith and Zack are more suited to one another?

 

[Martel]

*subscribes to this thread in anticipation of the thundercloud that is going to strike it when the hardcore fans catch wind of it*

Since originally it was going to be Aerith x Sephiroth, which resulted in Zack, i.e. Zack was created for the specific purpose of being Aerith's lover (and to have an actual personality since that was something Cloud lacked) I don't see where the debate is here...I've never seen where the debate is here.

...although I seriously don't care; FFVII sucks, romance in video games sucks. I just wanted to point out the evidence that Cloud x Aerith fans are deliberately turning a blind eye to. Plus I actually enjoyed Crisis Core more than I did FFVII, and CC quite blatantly pairs Aerith up with Zack, Cloud doesn't even factor into it...which, I imagine, is why I enjoyed Crisis Core more than I did FFVII.

 

[Starships]

Cloud and Aerith because they're sweet together and have a connection. However I did support Cloud x Tifa in the past. I jumped ship because I feel personally that SquareEnix puts a lot of effort and clues to point towards Cloud and Aerith having feelings for each other. Just some small clues like Cloud has engraved Aerith in his heart for all of time . Now that's deep.

Not to mention Cloud and Aerith sort of feels like those old sweet Fairy Tale pairings and Romeo and Juliet. The handsome rouge bodyguard saving the long lost princess. It feels romantic.

Advent Children personally doesn't feel like Cloud and Tifa love each other personally. Cloud and Tifa feel distant and like there's this space between them. Cloud seems to be more focused on his career and motorbike while Tifa is holding back wondering when Cloud is going to say those 3 words to her. Tifa and Cloud personally feel almost like Squall and Quistis to me. Especially in Case of Tifa. Tifa tried to giggle and flirt with Cloud several times; but like Squall with Quistis- Cloud just never got the hints and just wasn't interested imo.

About Zerith. It's a cute pairing but Aerith sort of makes it clear in FF 7 that she's over Zack and more into Cloud. In Maiden of the Planet Aerith mentions that she has stronger feelings towards Cloud.

However if Cloud and Tifa became official I personally wouldn't mind. I love Tifa and it would stink for her to feel rejected and lonely. She should be happy with somebody. I don't get this "Oh no, the another shipping might become official " !!

Because as longs as the characters are happy within their relationship, it shouldn't be shudded or pushed away. I also like the idea of Tifa x Reno because in Advent they sounded like they really got along and Reno is a good guy now so... it could happen. Maybe.


Just my 2 gills on this.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Cloud and Tifa for sure. I got the feeling from playing the game that Cloud loved Tifa when they were young, part of the reason why he wanted to be a hero was so that his feelings would be requited. By the time he met Aerith he had mostly forgotten who he was and hadn't seen Tifa in years. I never got the feeling that he liked Aerith as anything more than a friend, and I think she liked him mostly because he reminded her of Zack. After Cloud regained his memories and when they were getting ready to go after Sepheroth (under the Highwind) I think it was made clear that Tifa and Cloud loved each other. I also think it was pretty obvious in AC that Tifa and Cloud were together at that point.

The thing is, depending on how each person plays the game, there are differences in the story so that doesn't help prove one over the other. I think that's the way it's meant to be, the player can decide for themselves who they want the love story to be between.

Xx..xX

 

[Tucker]

CLOUD X AERITH
Aw naw, Clerith all the way

When I first played FF7, I was a huuuuuge Cloti shipper, and even then I was like "UGH Cloud stop having your romantic moments with Aerith...you love Tifa!" Even as an 8 year old I saw that Cloud and Aerith's relationship wasn't just as friends.

Aerith opened Cloud up, as before he was cold and heartless. Even if you add gazillions of points to Tifa throughout the game (relationship/romantic points or whatever) there will still be special Clerithy moments. There are so many to list, but there are plenty in the Clerith club

I love Tifa, I think she's a great character. I think sure, she could have some romantic feelings toward Cloud. But Aerith and Cloud always seem to overshadow Cloud and Tifa's relationship.

Don't even get me started on the way Cloud acts after Aerith

Spoiler

dies.

Soooo....yeah. Clerith all the way

 

[Omegadruid]

cloud and tifa definately.. The way I see it aerith got feelings for cloud when he was imitating zach thus reminding her of her old love. Furthermore it is Tifa who helps Cloud find himself again and they share romanting scenes during the end of the game.. Even if Cloud doesnt show his affection many times it is super implicit that Tifa loves him like there is no tomorrow. Cloud and Aerith seems like a bad relationship considering it started when cloud psychological state was broken, nearly schizoid if you ask me

 

[Sheechiibii]

CLOUD X AERITH
Aw naw, Clerith all the way

When I first played FF7, I was a huuuuuge Cloti shipper, and even then I was like "UGH Cloud stop having your romantic moments with Aerith...you love Tifa!" Even as an 8 year old I saw that Cloud and Aerith's relationship wasn't just as friends.

Aerith opened Cloud up, as before he was cold and heartless. Even if you add gazillions of points to Tifa throughout the game (relationship/romantic points or whatever) there will still be special Clerithy moments. There are so many to list, but there are plenty in the Clerith club

I love Tifa, I think she's a great character. I think sure, she could have some romantic feelings toward Cloud. But Aerith and Cloud always seem to overshadow Cloud and Tifa's relationship.

Don't even get me started on the way Cloud acts after Aerith

Spoiler

dies.

Soooo....yeah. Clerith all the way

On the contrary, even when playing the game towards Clerith points-wise, there are always Cloti moments too. As for the way Cloud acts after Aerith's

Spoiler

death

I think that is hugely because not only has he

Spoiler

lost a much valued friend,

but he is also extremely guilty for it. I mean, the last time he saw her before that

Spoiler

he battered her.

Xx..xX

 

[PhoenyxAngel]

Oh boy....here we go. lol. Everyone keep your cool. Just saying this ahead of time, because I've seen this discussion many, many times. It never ends well. lol

But my vote is for Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. Why? Because I like them together. I was originally a mix of Cloud/Aerith and Cloud/Tifa supporter. But then Aerith....well, you know.....

Spoiler

she dies

When THAT happens I kinda just stuck with Cloud/Tifa because that made the most sense considering

Spoiler

Aerith is dead

. And FFVII honestly showed support for both pairings, both pairings have their valid points to support them. It just comes down to personal opinion on the game, and the characters.

And then Crisis Core came out and I absolutely fell in love with Zack/Aerith. So yeah, that's my reason for choosing Cloud/Tifa and Zack/Aerith. That and

Spoiler

Aerith and Zack are reunited in death.....a very tragic/romantic type story. And I'm a sucker for those types of stories/pairings. And Cloud/Tifa are together being alive and stuff. lol XD

 

[The Witch]

Let's just ignore the THREE different commercials that say Cloud and Aerith are a "love story" cuz I wanna get to the even more romantic stuff. *faints*

I think the LTD was answered a long time ago. I feel that the LTD was answered the moment Cloud told Tifa that he wanted to be in the Promised Land with Aerith. & If that didn’t do it for me, the fact that Aerith’s soul lives on in Cloud’s soul PRETTY much put a fork in the LTD. But, then again, having Nomura say that Cloud has an undying feeling for Aerith that differs from the platonic love of their friends really REALLY ends the LTD for me. The whole “Cloud is Aerith’s friend & lover” quote from the official novella is another solid one, too.

I don't know... but, when a jerk-guy like Cloud is sitting over there comparing a girl's(Aerith's) smile to a flower, saying her eyes are impressive, feeling at peace in her church, and saying stuff like meeting her was "amazing", or telling that girl(Aerith) that HE'S there for HER, and recalling her laugh and lamenting over never being able to hear it again... I just think that's all very clear indications of Cloud's romantic feelings for Aerith & I just can't ignore that sort of stuff. No dim childhood crush could ever over shadow that. Ever.

And I do not care how many stones are tossed at me for this but I don't see anything (that's not optional) that gives me the conclusion Cloud has "feelings" for Tifa in present time. Just don't see it.

P.S. AS COUPLES LIKE TIDUSxYUNA / SHUYINxLEENE / LAGUNAxRAINE / CARAWAYxJULIA / & MARLENE'S BIO FATHER AND HIS WIFE HAVE PROVEN TO US--TRUE LOVE SURPASSES DEATH! Just because *15 YEAR OLD SPOILER-->Aerith's dead<--15 YEAR OLD SPOILER* that doesn't mean Cloud has to stop loving her. One can argue he'll have a physical relationship with someone else, sure--that'd be shallow--but that doesn't mean that stops Cloud from eternally loving Aerith and wanting to be with her when he arrives at the promised land. As Cloud has already stated, he wants to meet Aerith in the promised land... HIS promised land. In other words, when Cloud dies--he wants to be with Aerith in his promised land, the place of supreme happiness. That's love.

We have to remember life is temporary, but the "second" life in the promised land is eternal.

That said,
CLOUDXAERITH FTW, BITCHES!

 

[Dragon Mage]

Okay I'll bite, just a little.

Cloud and Tifa. I love 'em.

Why? Well, there's is an impossible love story that somehow makes it.

Let's look at it here.

First, Cloud is fixated on Tifa his entire childhood. He wants to be her hero so he can protect and comfort her. To that end, he joins the military. To that end, he ends up becoming a twisted experiment. To that end, he becomes a very broken soldier, basically everything he wanted to be, but mentally he's totally broken. Then Tifa puts him back together and they save the world.

In short, because he loved her so much, he saved the world. How awesome is that!

But really, I think it's the romanticism that gets me. These two are separated in the worst way imaginable and yet they somehow find each other again and support each other until the near apocalypse/end of days. That's just too sweet, really. And, this goes without saying but I'm a huge sucker for happy endings. I SUPPORT HAPPY ENDINGS! And it can't get happier than these two lovebirds, driven apart and yet impossibly finding each other again, getting together and massproducing spiky-haired babies! I mean, Tifa is Cloud's goal! She was the inspiration the cause of everything, and you just don't go rushing to war for a girl over a crush. That's some serious love there. Since Tifa is the only one who really understands Cloud through and through (history and everything) I don't see a better match for him.


I won't deny that he had feelings for Aerith, but was it true love? No. I don't think so. He had largely taken on the roll of Zack at the time when he met her and his persona as 'Zack' would say he's gotta be the ladies man for every girl he meets. I don't think it was necessarily him absorbing Zack's affection for Aerith just him taking on how Zack behaved toward women which was basically, "I'm always available."

Now, did Aerith mean a great deal to him? Yes. Was he horribly affected by her death? Yes. But was she his true love? No. Under all the confusion and mako poisoning, he still remembered he loved Tifa. A part of him was trying to get him to remember his past and Tifa was the lynchpin to it. Tifa was, in fact, the catalyst for everything he did in his life. That's a kind of dedication and true love that isn't just forgotten in a few years. That's heavy-duty stuff.

And for the record, yes I think Zack and Aerith were more suited for each other. Both of Cloud and Tifa are quiet, demure people who say a lot in very little. But Zack and Aerith are kinda the opposite. Also, I think Zack was totally smitten with Aerith as evidenced by the huge impact she had on him, and how much she made him change his randy ways and how he thought about her before he met his end. She meant a lot to him and it would be cheating him of his own happy ending if she were to go with Cloud.

So, there's my 2 cents, how I see it laid out.

Don't quote me, I probably won't reply. Unless there was a typo or something. Other than that, yeah. I don't really see a need to debate here, it's pretty much "speak your piece and get off the soap box."

CLOUD AND TIFA, BITCHES!

(sorry, couldn't resist! )

 

[Saints&Storms]

It should be pretty obvious...its Cloud and Aerith, hm, hm.

I always found this undeniable and pretty straightforward theme to their relationship and that was love; The only other guy than Cloud I have ever heard say "I'll miss your laugh, your smile" is Blink 182's Tom DeLonge. In a love song.

If that right there doesn't put a romantic curve to their already dynamic relationship then I don't know what does -- but I have to say I enjoy the couple appearing in things together consistently as couple, Itadaki Street Special, Parasite Eve, The Coke Ads in JP, The FFVII soundtrack, the International Disks, the Commercials (Ninja'd by Cali....you little sneak ) Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy Tactics and the little honorable mention in IX about a Flower Girl and Knight and a lot of other things help to make me love them...as well as keep me loving them :3

Moreover because they are the most tragic Video Game Couple ever. I also find it really awesome that the only obsticale that Cloud and Aerith face as being a pairing and couple is her being dead; as opposed to not getting along, lying, running from each other and fighting.

I mean come on even young little Marlene agreed Cloud and Tifa didn't get along -- I trust that little sweet heart's intuition

 

[Omegadruid]

Although both of you have very strong arguments.. I think that Cloud and Tifa as far as this discussion is concerned is winning. Furthermore if SE tend more to emphasize Cloud/Aerith .. Well to me that is just fan pleasing because the evidence in the games and movies themselves have a more solid direction towards Tifa/Cloud. But then again one cannot be entirely sure but debating is always fun