Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[Saints&Storms]

A friend was just asking me and he had a pretty good point....

Why is it 'Clouds' love triangle? Isn't it technically the FF7 love triangle? I mean, triangles must consist of 3 people, right? Seems unfair that Cloud get's the title.

My friend and I agree.

The title should be changed.

"The FF7 Love Triangle Debate"

Makes much more sense, IMO.

Meh, no, not really. Because Tifa likes Cloud, Cloud likes Aerith and Aerith likes Cloud back and so on and so forth; the entire love triangle revolves around Cloud, everyone likes Cloud, Aerith is over Zack hence Cali titled it "Cloud's Love Triangle" so as to avoid people beating the dead horse that is the Zack myth.

Makes much sense to me

I mean, come on -- do you see any OTHER triangles going around? Let's see...

DM, you just answered your own question. There are no other LTDs of VII so why not title it only about Cloud (the only existing one)

Honestly, that's a bit disturbing.

I mean....

*picture of bloody, dripping heart with "AERIS --SE" carved into it*

Gruesome, yes?

Actually, its a common Japanese romance trope/theme -- for example in Bleach (a Japanese manga) Rukia tells Ichigo that he is in her heart, but its not exclusive to Japanese or Asian culture its also in western media like the Britney Spears song Deep in My Heart where she sings "Deep in my heart, I know there's only you" or a Selena Gomez song titled Ghost of You where she also says "But for now there's a reason that, You're still here in my heart" as well as the infamous Phil Collins song "You'll be in My Heart" and the great Smashing Pumpkins Song "Stand inside Your Love" "Your home is here
Within my heart" -- need I go on?

There are also romantic quotes such as “When someone is in your heart, they're never truly gone. They can come back to you, even at unlikely times.” by Mitch Albom. I am going to guess you've never read Much Ado about Nothing either? Because in it is said "I will live in thy heart, die in thy lap, and be buried in thy eyes—" Benedick says it to Beatrice as well as another Shakespeare quote "Love me or hate me, both are in my favor..If you love me, I'll always be in your heart..If you hate me, I'll always be in your mind" I am pretty sure there is more too...just can't think of them


I can't for the life of me comprehend how that is disturbing at all, its quite romantic -- I mean look at all these love songs

Are you saying Phil Collins is disturbing?

 

[Dragon Mage]

DM, you just answered your own question. There are no other LTDs of VII so why not title it only about Cloud (the only existing one)

Right. So. Why specify Cloud? I mean, not like it's going to be between a chocobo and it's unrequited love for Bahamut and Bahamut pining away for the Tonberry, right?

(FYI, this was me, making a joke. The joke continues to be made. Nice joke. Goooood joke. I laugh at joke. )

Actually, its a common Japanese romance trope/theme -- for example in Bleach (a Japanese manga) Rukia tells Ichigo that he is in her heart, but its not exclusive to Japanese or Asian culture its also in western media like the Britney Spears song Deep in My Heart where she sings "Deep in my heart, I know there's only you" or a Selena Gomez song titled Ghost of You where she also says "But for now there's a reason that, You're still here in my heart" as well as the infamous Phil Collins song "You'll be in My Heart" -- need I go on?

There are also romantic quotes such as “When someone is in your heart, they're never truly gone. They can come back to you, even at unlikely times.” by Mitch Albom. I am going to guess you've never read Much Ado about Nothing either? Because in it is said "I will live in thy heart, die in thy lap, and be buried in thy eyes—" Benedick says it to Beatrice as well as another Shakespeare quote "Love me or hate me, both are in my favor..If you love me, I'll always be in your heart..If you hate me, I'll always be in your mind" I am pretty sure there is more too...just can't think of them


I can't for the life of me comprehend how that is disturbing at all, its quite romantic -- I mean look at all these love songs

Are you saying Phil Collins is disturbing?

I'm fairly certain all those references meant 'in my heart' metaphorically. Not physically engraved. That'd just be.... odd. I mean, I LOVE chocolate, but I don't go getting it tattooed on my liver or anything.

Stop killing my jokes, dammit! Or I will be forced to take immediate action with flying monkeys and cream pies!

And if you wonder WHY I come in here and make a joke, it is because I think that every now and then, this place needs a good laugh. I mean, honestly, there's no real reason to get so upset about this silly topic, is there?

See, even this image of a Dancing Cloud is happy about my making fun!

Whoop whoop! Shake dat' thing, cloud!

See? We should all be like this cloud and get jiggy wi' it in this thread once and a while.

Remember folks! You are ultimately debating over the theoretical romantic inclination of pixels!


In the grand scheme of things, this debate is not that important.

"But Dragon Mage," you say, "How can you say that?"

That's easy, padawan.


Perspective!

Know what happens if this debate ever comes to a close? Know what the world will do!?

The world will turn to you and say, with utmost sincerity:

So don't take it too seriously. In the grand scheme, this thread will never pay bills, provide chocolate, or make babies; the three most important things in life!
Forums are for FUN! And you can't have fun if you look like this guy:

In fact, if you are doing this, you should stop! RIGHT NOW! Because it isn't healthy and forums shouldn't cause agony, they should be friendly communities where people gather to have weird conversations. And post funny pictures.

So remember people, make sure that you're computer looks like this:

And not like this:

Nothing that happens in this thread is ever important as what happens in real life -- just keep that in mind and remember to have fun!

 

[Master Cat]

@Dragon Mage - Thank you for your post! I 100% agree with everything you've stated about not taking this topic too seriously...

I've been reading over this thread since yesterday and I've actually taken a lot of time to read everyone's posts. Not just skimming, but actually actively reading.
Much of what I have read has been very enjoyable and I've become a lot more knowledgeable on both sides of the LTD.

In fact, I'd like to thank everyone who has ever posted in this thread for providing such valuable information (mainly quotes and descriptions of scenarios) from the numerous and supportive FFVII materials, be it the game, AC, Ultimania, or novellas.

I've been meaning to throw my 2cents in here, but honestly I'm a bit afraid of my argument being ripped to shreds! xD;
I've never been much of a "debater." Plus, many of the things I would have said have already been mentioned and regurgitated a million times by CloTi fans (hint hint on which pairing I support!).

For the sake of staying on topic, I will say this about the LTD overall (including outside of this particular thread): I feel as though CloTi fans are fighting a lost battle - it's a hopeless cause; a lost case.

Why? Because it seems as though Square-Enix has already decided which pairing reigns supreme in the FFVII world, and that is obviously Clerith (much to my dismay).

Since the first time I had played FFVII back when I was 7 years old, I had always fantasized that Cloud and Tifa would become a couple by the end of the game.
I was obviously biased since I disliked Aeris' character with a passion even I couldn't understand. (Was it the long pink dress? The innocent, "goody-two-shoes" persona? I'm still not quite sure.)

CloTi always seemed to make sense to me - even while watching Advent Children.
However, after reading through these posts, I feel as though CloTi doesn't truly stand a chance. :/

The original storyline of FFVII (meaning, just the game itself) was a bit more flexible. I honestly believe that both Tifa and Aeris stood a fair chance at becoming Cloud's lover because there is evidence to support both pairings. If there weren't, then this debate wouldn't exist in the first place. ^^;

Although I will admit that the game included a few key scenes in which Cloud and Aeris bonded on a deeper level, Tifa also played a significant role in supporting Cloud throughout the game (I would cite the numerous instances, but I'm sure we can at least agree on that... xD) and their relationship can easily be viewed as beyond platonic and at least on the verge of romance.

Since the release of the game, consequential works related to FFVII have favored the idea of Clerith over CloTi, yet the writers at Square Enix seem to enjoy teasing CloTi fans with the notion that perhaps Cloud will simply settle down with Tifa as they act as surrogate parents to Marlene and Denzel and run a delivery service/bar together, all the while keeping Aeris in their loving memory. It actually frustrates me a bit because the actualization of a Cloud x Tifa relationship is so close, yet so far away due to Cloud's guilt/Aeris' lingering spirit/etc.

Perhaps if Tifa were more direct about her feelings and not so "demure," and perhaps if Cloud wasn't so introverted and guilt-ridden, then her feelings could have been expressed and he would be able to reciprocate them without much hesitation on his part.

But love shouldn't be that complicated, right? Because if Cloud truly loved Tifa, he should be able to sense it. He should be able to express his own feelings without her initiation.
...Then again, Cloud could be a bit dense at times. I mean, Aeris was quite straightforward about her feelings and attraction to Cloud. I also imagine her to be somewhat of a cutesy flirty type, based solely upon her dialogue throughout the game. So perhaps her extra "push" helped him along the way?

Plus Cloud had already felt rejected by Tifa during his childhood, so perhaps he felt as though he didn't stand a chance and it never occurred to him that Tifa would develop such strong, romantic feelings for him years and years later as they became young adults.

In any case, I am and will always be a CloTi fan, no matter if it goes against the facts.
I suppose it's more of a preference for me as opposed to a logical conclusion at this point. ^^;

 

[Saints&Storms]

@Dragon Mage

Right. So. Why specify Cloud? I mean, not like it's going to be between a chocobo and it's unrequited love for Bahamut and Bahamut pining away for the Tonberry, right?

(FYI, this was me, making a joke. The joke continues to be made. Nice joke. Goooood joke. I laugh at joke. )

Why not specify Cloud? He is after all the only one its all about; its a two way street honestly, that kind of Patayto - Patahto kinda thing, you know? Not really a difference here or there

But I think in all good-heartedness Cali was probably having fun with the title, you know for fun thats all

I'm fairly certain all those references meant 'in my heart' metaphorically. Not physically engraved. That'd just be.... odd. I mean, I LOVE chocolate, but I don't go getting it tattooed on my liver or anything.

Stop killing my jokes, dammit! Or I will be forced to take immediate action with flying monkeys and cream pies!

And if you wonder WHY I come in here and make a joke, it is because I think that every now and then, this place needs a good laugh. I mean, honestly, there's no real reason to get so upset about this silly topic, is there?

Ah, okay, I see why you're confused now let me explain that better; I doubt the staff of FFVII was being drop-dead literal about her being literally engraved in his heart, I mean when people say you'll be in my heart they don't mean another being will live inside of their organ etc. etc. its a metaphoric thing.

The actual quote goes like this;

"Aerith Gainsborough - A girl with the blood of the Ancients flowing through her veins, who is engraved in Cloud's heart for the rest of his life." ~ DoC manual

And others about her living on in his heart

It doesn't mean she has literally been stabbed and hacked into Cloud heart of course, that's like when someone says an image has burned into their mind; that their brain is on fire -- that's just silly to take that far-fetched meaning.


Like I said though; its not like Phil Collins is saying he's trapped another human to live inside his organ. Its a metaphorical engraved; let alone the self-explanatory reasoning that Cloud would die had someone literally tattooed or carved someone into his heart

As much as I agree that we should keep it civil and light-hearted in here; I think spamming in here with joke's and off tangent posts should be avoided at all costs; I would for one hate to see this thread closed for disorderly conduct and stuff.


Also DM, I don't really know why you feel the need to put ginormous font and pictures with the word "Fuck" in it? I don't see the reasoning behind that sort of behavior or why really it was necessary to tell me to calm down seeing as I wasn't really...uncalm -- but posting huge pictures and such was truly unnecessary. But if something was said that made you upset enough to make a long stretched post and cuss when we can probably handle it privately as opposed to taking it to this thread, I'd be glad to sort it out. But clearly you are pissed and I don't really know why...?

I just want the thread to stay peaceful and on-topic (with out the F word being tossed around)

 

[The Witch]

@ Tori & DM

I do agree that people should remain lighthearted in my thread but... seriously the whole warning was outta nowhere and really just unnecessary. No one is taking this too seriously. It's not like someone is posting a lot of angry pictures and big font while debating the LTD. There's no need for someone to come in here when everything is calm and just start telling people to calm down... when they're already calm.

So, unless you see people getting out of hand and actually freaking out (which hasn't happened yet) then there's seriously no need for someone to come in here and tell others to calm down.

Now icba to read your guy's rants thoroughly but let's just drop it

That said, DM about your thread name question, I called it Cloud's Love Triangle because I was tired of people coming into the LTD thread and saying that the LTD was about Aerith and Tifa having feelings for Cloud when really the LTD is about who CLOUD loves and has feelings for. I don't give a crap for Zack's feelings because he's been long since kicked outta Aerith's love life (by Aerith!) so I wanted to avoid people coming in here talking about their feelings when I want people to discuss CLOUD'S feelings.

Does that make sense?

well, whatever--let's discuss the ltd!

CloTi always seemed to make sense to me - even while watching Advent Children.
However, after reading through these posts, I feel as though CloTi doesn't truly stand a chance. :/

I read your post but what about the posts here made you feel that way about Cloti not standing a chance, if I can ask? ( I mean, I agree) but I'm just curious.

(I don't really intend on debating you either, I am just interested in your opinion, is all )

 

[Master Cat]

I read your post but what about the posts here made you feel that way about Cloti not standing a chance, if I can ask? ( I mean, I agree) but I'm just curious.

(I don't really intend on debating you either, I am just interested in your opinion, is all )

Well, there is a substantial amount of evidence in favor of Cloud x Aeris. More importantly, most of the Cloud x Aeris argument is oriented in the present (FFVII)/future (FF:AC), whereas the Cloud x Tifa side of the argument can only be supported by details from the past a.k.a. their childhood, which is subject to a lot of criticism and doubt.

For instance, many Cloti fans (including myself at one point) believe that Cloud and Tifa shared a sort of childhood romance together; I believe it's even referred to as a "dim crush." Although I wish that their feelings could have flourished since childhood, I'm a bit reluctant to even fathom the possibility now. Cloud was a shy, introverted little boy that was not able to hang out with Tifa because most of the time she was surrounded by the other village children. According to that fact, he was barely even able to spend time with her, let alone become true friends with her.

So, I sort of question the legitimacy of their childhood friendship/relationship. He may very well have had a crush on her. She may have acknowledged his existence, and she may have made that promise under the well with him, but were they really that close of friends? I'm not so sure...

Especially if you reflect upon the lifestream and flashback segments within the game, in which Tifa reveals that Cloud had never even been in her room before. Did he falsely create those memories in order to fill the empty gap between his childhood and his mako-infused SOLDIER days...? I'm still not sure about Cloud's past really.

So, I guess my main reason is the lack of evidence in favor of Cloti, especially within the context of Advent Children because it's almost the perfect scenario for Cloud and Tifa to be together. They live together for goodness sake. And years and years later, he still hasn't made any moves? It's pretty disappointing, but that's the way the story is meant to be, I suppose.

Perhaps there is hope for Cloti within yet another addition to the FFVII storyline, but for now, it sadly appears to be unrequited love on Tifa's part. I'm actually pretty open to the idea of Tifa x Reno though, so if Cloud wants to remain faithful to Aeris, then Tifa should be able to find love in another person. That's the least that could happen. She's such a loving character, y'know? I feel like it's a shame that she's just settling with her unrequited feelings. x__x

*Note - Jeez, I didn't realize I wrote this much... x__x Kudos to anyone who actually reads it! xD

 

[Harlequin]

I feel as though CloTi doesn't truly stand a chance. :/

Not saying cloti's canon or anything but.. no chance? lets get serious people!!

 

[Master Cat]

Not saying cloti's canon or anything but.. no chance? lets get serious people!!

Mehh, I guess that's a bit extreme for me to say, huh? xD; I feel like I'm losing my faith in Cloti, that's all. Maybe I need to be inspired by other Cloti fans. ^^;
I still love the couple, but I'm not willing to suggest that it's likely in the grand scheme of things (although I wish it were!).
I can still immerse myself in Cloti fanfiction to keep the pairing alive.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Mehh, I guess that's a bit extreme for me to say, huh? xD; I feel like I'm losing my faith in Cloti, that's all. Maybe I need to be inspired by other Cloti fans. ^^;
I still love the couple, but I'm not willing to suggest that it's likely in the grand scheme of things (although I wish it were!).
I can still immerse myself in Cloti fanfiction to keep the pairing alive.

I always thought that AC painted Tifa and Cloud in an almost-relationship light. It's obviously never going to actually be said, because there's far too much debate going on with fans over the LTD. Saying it's not likely though - how is it not likely? It certainly can't be less likely than Clerith because Aerith is dead and Cloud is alive, you need two living characters for a relationship. If you're talking about in the context of VII, I would say neither is more likely than the other - the game was made so that depending on the players choices Clouds relationship leans toward one girl or the other. As for CC, well Cloti would have to win that one since Cloud and Aerith never even met in it (as far as I know) and Aerith was in a relationship with Zack. Unless you're talking simply about Clouds feelings, in that case it's even more complicated - did he like Aerith, was he confused about his persona, did she flirt with him because he reminded her of Zack, does Cloud think of her because he was in love with her or because of his guilt?

What I think is clear and has always appeared clear to me in the game is this - Tifa likes Cloud, Cloud liked Tifa when he was younger, Aerith likes Cloud, and depending on the players decisions Cloud returns the affections of one girl.

Xx..xX

 

[Master Cat]

I always thought that AC painted Tifa and Cloud in an almost-relationship light. It's obviously never going to actually be said, because there's far too much debate going on with fans over the LTD. Saying it's not likely though - how is it not likely? It certainly can't be less likely than Clerith because Aerith is dead and Cloud is alive, you need two living characters for a relationship. If you're talking about in the context of VII, I would say neither is more likely than the other - the game was made so that depending on the players choices Clouds relationship leans toward one girl or the other. As for CC, well Cloti would have to win that one since Cloud and Aerith never even met in it (as far as I know) and Aerith was in a relationship with Zack. Unless you're talking simply about Clouds feelings, in that case it's even more complicated - did he like Aerith, was he confused about his persona, did she flirt with him because he reminded her of Zack, does Cloud think of her because he was in love with her or because of his guilt?

What I think is clear and has always appeared clear to me in the game is this - Tifa likes Cloud, Cloud liked Tifa when he was younger, Aerith likes Cloud, and depending on the players decisions Cloud returns the affections of one girl.

Xx..xX

It's true that you need two (alive) people for a relationship, but you really only need one person to feel love for another person - dead or alive, lol. And if Cloud is truly in love with Aeris ("engraved in his heart" and whatnot), then it'll be pretty difficult for him to be involved in a relationship with someone else. Similar to how a widow/widower remains faithful to his/her true love and soul mate.

Honestly, Aeris' death really complicates things because, as you had mentioned, it's difficult to tell whether or not Cloud's feelings are so strong because of his guilt or because he actually harbors such passionate feelings for her.

I've always wondered, hypothetically, whether or not things would be different if Aeris had remained alive until the end. Would Cloud and Aeris live happily ever after in the end while Tifa just watches from the sidelines? Or would Cloud feel psychologically fulfilled (a.k.a. not guilt ridden), and therefore not obsessed with Aeris' death, such that he would be able to acknowledge and reciprocate Tifa's feelings more readily? Who knows.

Orrr perhaps Aeris' death actually makes Cloti possible because technically she no longer poses a challenge... Of course, the only conflict left is understanding Cloud's feelings, which is at the heart of the LTD. x_X

I wish that his smile at the end of AC represented his willingness to move on from Aeris, 'cause if it did, then it would pave the way for Cloud and Tifa to build upon their partnership (which indeed they already have throughout AC) and eventually their romantic relationship.

I really need to be more optimistic about this! xD;

 

[Sheechiibii]

It's true that you need two (alive) people for a relationship, but you really only need one person to feel love for another person - dead or alive, lol. And if Cloud is truly in love with Aeris ("engraved in his heart" and whatnot), then it'll be pretty difficult for him to be involved in a relationship with someone else. Similar to how a widow/widower remains faithful to his/her true love and soul mate.

Honestly, Aeris' death really complicates things because, as you had mentioned, it's difficult to tell whether or not Cloud's feelings are so strong because of his guilt or because he actually harbors such passionate feelings for her.

I've always wondered, hypothetically, whether or not things would be different if Aeris had remained alive until the end. Would Cloud and Aeris live happily ever after in the end while Tifa just watches from the sidelines? Or would Cloud feel psychologically fulfilled (a.k.a. not guilt ridden), and therefore not obsessed with Aeris' death, such that he would be able to acknowledge and reciprocate Tifa's feelings more readily? Who knows.

Orrr perhaps Aeris' death actually makes Cloti possible because technically she no longer poses a challenge... Of course, the only conflict left is understanding Cloud's feelings, which is at the heart of the LTD. x_X

I wish that his smile at the end of AC represented his willingness to move on from Aeris, 'cause if it did, then it would pave the way for Cloud and Tifa to build upon their partnership (which indeed they already have throughout AC) and eventually their romantic relationship.

I really need to be more optimistic about this! xD;

I agree, it's Cloud's feeling that are at the heart of everything and that's what gets most fans, because depending on how a player plays the game Clouds feelings are different. If you play the game towards Tifa, Aerith barely exists in the game at all and I'm sure it's the same way if you play the game towards Aerith. I believe that his feelings now for Aerith have and probably always will be riddled with guilt. I don't mean to say he didn't care for her, I think he did, I think he cared a lot for her and was really hurt by her death but I think the way it happened had a lot more to do with it than what Clerith fans try to say. The last time Cloud saw Aerith he beat her, yes she contacted him in his dream but that didn't exactly clear anything up did it? Then she was killed right in front of his face and he'd nearly been the one to do it then just stood by and did nothing. His weakness in that situation is what makes him suffer so much over the death of someone he really cared about.

If Aerith had lived then I think the game would have played out the way it did originally, dependant on the player. Everything after the initial VII game will never give us a true answer because of the debating over it. I do believe the smile at the end of AC (and most of AC in general) strongly pointed towards Cloud finally coming to a realisation that it wasn't his fault that Aerith died and that she is at peace and so should he be. I mean, Aerith and Jack leave together and then Cloud turns and smiles at Tifa; it looks like the two pairings have just been given to us without being given to us, because they'll never actually say it because that would cause outrage with fans.

Xx..xX

 

[Omegadruid]

I laughed my ass off with the "Aerith or Jack" typo.. Being it intentional or not !
Regarding the love triangle. I have stated many times that I am leaned towards Cloti. I mean... We hardly can take any factual evidence from the game as it is completely ambiguous depending on the player choices. On advent children..Atleast the perception I got was that Cloud had warm and friendship feelings for Aerith but more importantly he was feeling guilty and he could not move forward with his life until he got rid of that guilt.. He was uncapable of facing the people he loved thus he isolated himself in the church. The lonely place where he could be with his own guilty and distorted feelings. He thought himself not worthy of being with Tifa or his friends. As sheechiibii said in the end his smile might be the rid of his guilt, the end of the struggle and ultimately the realization that he can move on with his life.
Conclusion
Cloud/Aerith - Ultimate friendship and guilt feelings that tormented Cloud
Cloud/Tifa - Blooming and potential feelings of love that probably after the AC events would turn into a full blown relationship

 

[Sheechiibii]

I laughed my ass off with the "Aerith or Jack" typo.. Being it intentional or not !

Oops that's embarrasing. Agree with everything you said though, that's what I feel about the LTD too.

Xx..xX

 

[Saints&Storms]

I agree, it's Cloud's feeling that are at the heart of everything and that's what gets most fans, because depending on how a player plays the game Clouds feelings are different. If you play the game towards Tifa, Aerith barely exists in the game at all and I'm sure it's the same way if you play the game towards Aerith.

While I agree it is Clouds feelings that matter most; I don't see how something like this can be said and then followed by something like all romance inclinations toward her are optional or don't exist if you choose Tifa mostly; that's actually not true. Its non-optional that Cloud accepts a date from her, goes on a date with her and become her bodyguard [risking his like at Shin-Ra HQ for her] as well as numerous more non-optional things both in game/movie or guidbooks/novella's.

Its non-optional that Cloud tells her he's there for her around the bon-fire at Cosmo Canyon, its non-optional to have their marriage affinity read, its non-optional that Aerith is proclaimed as dear to Cloud, it's non-optional that he doesn't care about the planet after her death, its non-optional that Cloud says he thinks of her all the time, its non-optional that Tifa had to beg him to help them and he did it easily for Aerith and more improtantly its non-optional that Cloud fights Sephiroth for revenge for Aerith's death and ends up wanting to meet her in the Promised Land/heaven its practically shoved down the gamers throat. So, no, Aerith isn't barely existant if you so choose; she's pretty much the center of the game.

I believe that his feelings now for Aerith have and probably always will be riddled with guilt. I don't mean to say he didn't care for her, I think he did, I think he cared a lot for her and was really hurt by her death but I think the way it happened had a lot more to do with it than what Clerith fans try to say. The last time Cloud saw Aerith he beat her, yes she contacted him in his dream but that didn't exactly clear anything up did it? Then she was killed right in front of his face and he'd nearly been the one to do it then just stood by and did nothing. His weakness in that situation is what makes him suffer so much over the death of someone he really cared about.

No, sorry I have to just say no here; Nomura (The creator) has said Clouds feelings for Aerith are undying and different/genuine than that her friends (AVALANCHE) had for her. Clouds feeling of guilt was relieved in AC so his feelings for her are something much more.

Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

So, Clouds feelings for her being watered down as to just guilt is just plain wrong; they have a bond and it goes far beyond him simply feeling bad for being the one who nearly killed her and thats it, he lost his mind and a part of himself when she died, he told Sephiroth that his plans for world destruction meant nothing now that Aeriht was gone -- and I am supposed to believe it was simply because he "beat" her and he never got to clear it up after so? Nuh, uh. No way. But my personal feelings and opinion are beside the point; Nomura pretty much dispelled this himself.

Yes, Aerith and Cloud did talk and clear it up, Aerith spoke to him in his dream, and to his heart; Cloud apologized and he and Aerith talked like they normally do. Let alone the fact that this has never been remotely adressed anywhere by Cloud, I think its a bit farfetched to say this :/

I mean, Cloud simply says nothing matters now that Aerith is gone; not because he had almost killed her himself (though undoubtedly this adds to the angst and bittersweetness) -- simply because she is no longer with him, he doesn't even know what to do after she's gone...this alone proves its more deep for Cloud.

"The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing."
"Aerith is gone." "Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry..."


So; No, absolutely not -- he doesn't suffer over her death because "his weakness", he suffers because she is gone, no longer with him, will never smile, laugh, cry or get angry; Cloud never once mentions only suffering because his weakness...He suffers because he lost her -- even Tifa gets that.

Tifa said Cloud was even more reticent after Aerith's death. She failed finding suitable words to console him, because "he didn't seem to lose Aerith only, but a piece of him also seemed lost." She kept saying that she'd never forgive Hojo. ~Tifa's monologue in Icicle Village, FFVII Dismantled

If Aerith had lived then I think the game would have played out the way it did originally, dependant on the player. Everything after the initial VII game will never give us a true answer because of the debating over it. I do believe the smile at the end of AC (and most of AC in general) strongly pointed towards Cloud finally coming to a realization that it wasn't his fault that Aerith died and that she is at peace and so should he be. I mean, Aerith and Jack leave together and then Cloud turns and smiles at Tifa; it looks like the two pairings have just been given to us without being given to us, because they'll never actually say it because that would cause outrage with fans.

Xx..xX

I disagree, because we have gotten answers on some things, definite answers at that, during and after the initial FFVII; both in official guidebooks and the video game ads themselves and novels/novella's.

Also I have to point something out -- Cloud actually doesn't smile at Tifa after he smiles at Aerith...at all, he smiles at and after Aerith told him everything is alright and then finally comes to terms that he isn't alone and the screen fades to white. Cloud let go of his "guilt" way before the end of the movie; that's what him and Vincent talked about. But here are some gifs of he scene; I could get a link to the video too --

​

-- he doesn't look at anyone afterwards he smiled at everyone around the room beforehand; and again he's not at peace because he loses his guilt -- he's at peace now because Aerith has convinced him inadvertently that he's not alone...anymore, as Cloud put it. I can't see how it is any sort of romantic inclination towards Cloud/Tifa when it took another woman to convince him he's not alone. I mean, come on Tifa was there for him if need be the whole time -- he chose not to answer her calls and leave 7th Heaven to go live in Aeriths church...

I think Square-Enix will and always has done what they like; I mean they released world-wide commercials defining the two (Cloud, Aerith) as a love story when the original game itself was released -- no fans were outraged then.

But I can't help but wonder -- if Tifa and Cloud were a "Blooming Relationship" status -- why are they still not together in Dirge of Cerberus? Why is it he couldn't be bothered to answer her phone calls [Tifa herself said he never calls in ACC and we see him ignore her call in the AC opening] and even moved away calling Aeriths church "His place"? Why is it one of the children they were "raising" even said they don't get along? Why does Tifa have to ask if he loves her and not even have the courage still to ask?

These things at the very least do not define a relationship.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

Now that I've finally seen the quote it's nothing like what Clerith fans make it out to be. There's nothing there about Cloud's feelings being different or even stronger than the love each of her comrades felt, it certainly doesn't mean he was in love with her, merely that he'd never forget her and cared about her dearly.

I mean, Cloud simply says nothing matters now that Aerith is gone; not because he had almost killed her himself (though undoubtedly this adds to the angst and bittersweetness) -- simply because she is no longer with him, he doesn't even know what to do after she's gone...this alone proves its more deep for Cloud.

"The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing."
"Aerith is gone." "Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry..."

You see it one way and I see it another, but there is nothing in the game that proves it's one or the other. It's completely obvious that he feels deep guilt (to say otherwise is a bit ridiculous given he almost killed her himself and beat her up last time they met) and that someone he cared about deeply was just killed in front of his face. These things alone would warrant his reaction, the question of him loving her is in no way proven by this in any way, it's just your interpretation that his feelings were that of love but it's as likely that they weren't.

So; No, absolutely not -- he doesn't suffer over her death because "his weakness", he suffers because she is gone, no longer with him, will never smile, laugh, cry or get angry; Cloud never once mentions only suffering because his weakness...He suffers because he lost her -- even Tifa gets that.

Tifa said Cloud was even more reticent after Aerith's death. She failed finding suitable words to console him, because "he didn't seem to lose Aerith only, but a piece of him also seemed lost." She kept saying that she'd never forgive Hojo. ~Tifa's monologue in Icicle Village, FFVII Dismantled

Again, none of that actually points to Cloud's feelings being that of love, losing a piece of himself and not being easily consoled is kind of a given if he was guilt ridden and had just lost a precious friend. Being in love with her is not necessary to explain any of these quotes you've provided.

Also I have to point something out -- Cloud actually doesn't smile at Tifa after he smiles at Aerith...at all, he smiles at and after Aerith told him everything is alright and then finally comes to terms that he isn't alone and the screen fades to white. Cloud let go of his "guilt" way before the end of the movie; that's what him and Vincent talked about. But here are some gifs of he scene; I could get a link to the video too --







-- he doesn't look at anyone afterwards he smiled at everyone around the room beforehand; and again he's not at peace because he loses his guilt -- he's at peace now because Aerith has convinced him inadvertently that he's not alone...anymore, as Cloud put it. I can't see how it is any sort of romantic inclination towards Cloud/Tifa when it took another woman to convince him he's not alone. I mean, come on Tifa was there for him if need be the whole time -- he chose not to answer her calls and leave 7th Heaven to go live in Aeriths church...

I apologise, I was wrong about the AC scene, I checked it on youtube and Cloud smiles at Tifa before he sees Aerith and Zack. My point is still there though, just the other way round, Tifa and Cloud smle at each other and then Aerith leaves with Zack.


Yes it was Aerith who put his mind at rest, but that makes sense because who's death is haunting him? Tifa can't exactly help him get rid of the guilt over Aerith can she? He distances himself from people because he feels he doesn't deserve their friendship after the things he's done. He needed the closure to be at peace, but that doesn't have to have anything to do with being in love with her unless you want to see it that way, there's nothing that you've provided yet that hasn't been up to interpretation and could very well just be completely platonic.

I think Square-Enix will and always has done what they like; I mean they released world-wide commercials defining the two (Cloud, Aerith) as a love story when the original game itself was released -- no fans were outraged then.

I'd like to see these. I didn't play the game until years after it was released and have never seen promotion labelling Cloud and Aerith as a love story.

But I can't help but wonder -- if Tifa and Cloud were a "Blooming Relationship" status -- why are they still not together in Dirge of Cerberus? Why is it he couldn't be bothered to answer her phone calls [Tifa herself said he never calls in ACC and we see him ignore her call in the AC opening] and even moved away calling Aeriths church "His place"? Why is it one of the children they were "raising" even said they don't get along? Why does Tifa have to ask if he loves her and not even have the courage still to ask?

These things at the very least do not define a relationship.

Well, it wasn't me who said they were in a bloomng relationship. He didn't answer his phone in AC because he was distancing himself from people, he was avoiding everyone, Tifa wasn't the only one. He called Aerith's church his place because that's where he went to be alone, where he felt at peace because he's so bothered by her death still. The whole if AC highlighted how bad Cloud had it when it came to how Aerith died and how during the course of the film he slowly comes to realise that it wasn't his fault and that he can move on and live, that his friends are there for him and that he does deserve them.


AC paints a picture of them being in an almost-relationship but having major problems on Clouds side as far as holding back is concerned. I'm not saying that's fact, that's my interpretation, just like you have your interpretation that he was in love with Aerith and is not bothered just by guilt and loosing a dear friend but that he actually loved her. Neither version is wrong, Square has deliberately left this ambiguous because that's the smart thing to do. Ever since the first game, Clouds feelings were up to the player. The way he and Aerith meet hardly counts as development unless you think he fell in love with her in 5 minutes and that's as deep as his feelings go. I played the game recently and believe me, Aerith was barely there at all after the first meeting.

Xx..xX

 

[EnigmaPhenomenon]

That's actually not true at all not only has Nomura himself said that Aerith knew the real Cloud and saw through his "fake persona" which was only half who he was, the REAL Cloud came through a lot of times; this again has been stated by the man

I sense a lot of hostility in your post. I’m going to clear up a few things.


Nomura never stated that Aerith knew the real Cloud. All that is stated is that Aerith perceived Cloud had lost himself, and knew that the Cloud she was talking to and interacting with was indeed not the real Cloud. Aerith knew there was a real Cloud, that’s true, Nomura states that Aerith had seen glimpses of the real Cloud, that’s true. Aerith DID NOT know the real Cloud, she never got the chance to meet him.


Her feelings she had for Cloud were originally because he reminded her of Zack, this changed later when she realized that the Cloud who reminded her of Zack was NOT the real Cloud, and that’s when she started to grow curious and attracted to the real Cloud. She wanted to KNOW him, she was attracted to that mysterious part of him, but as for actually knowing him…she didn’t. She only knew the existence of real Cloud. She knew OF him, but didn’t actually know him. Its also stated that the reason Aerith was able to sense the real Cloud is because of her ability as a Cetra so it’s not something specific to Cloud and only Cloud.


looking for you."..."So you won't have a beakdown." - what Aerith told Cloud had many deep meanings. Aerith detected that the present Cloud is not the real him during their encounters. She knows it because of her mysterious, inherent ability. ~pg. 29, FFVII Ultimania Omega

“So you won’t have a breakdown..”
Aerith appears in Cloud’s dream, and she seems to console him with such advice. This line can infer that Aerith has seen through to the essence of Cloud. ~pg. 156, FFVII Ultimania Omega


Beneath a quote of Aerith's words in the gondola:
When Aerith thinks of Cloud and Zack's similarities, she sees through to the fact that the present Cloud is not the real Cloud. Her meaningful words like saying "I'm searching for you" and "I want to meet you" mean that she has discovered the existence of the real Cloud, which he's not aware of himself.. ~pg. 31, FFVII Ultimania Omega

Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud is because he behaves like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him. ~pg. 31, FFVII Ultimania Omega


Even when Cloud behaves weirdly, she tries to console him with such words and doesn't fight back when being attacked by Cloud, who has been lost his mind. That's because she knows that this Cloud, who has become a copy of Sephiroth, is not the real him. She tries her best to decrease his anxiety. ~pg. 31, FFVII Ultimania Omega


Detected: Perceive the existence of
Essence: identifying nature: the quality or nature of something that identifies it or makes it what it is
Existence: being real: the state of being real, actual, or current


There’s official quotes backing everything I said in the first few paragraphs. She never knew Cloud but she knew his existence, she knew there was a real Cloud. The only thing Aerith was able to perceive was who Cloud WASN’T not who he was. She did see glimpses of the real Cloud, because the real Cloud was present. Cloud DID NOT become Zack. It was simply a false persona and real Cloud was in there somewhere. We learn this in the lifestream sequence.




FF7 Sector 5; Aeris’ Story

Marlene:
Guess what? Guess what? Aeris was asking me lots of questions.
Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!

If Aerith knew the real Cloud why would she be asking a 4-5 year old what kind of person Cloud is? Aerith should have all ready have known right? Or at least have a broad idea on what type of person the REAL Cloud was. Again, she knew of him, but didn’t know him.


Maiden of the Planet.

Aerith cried as she thought about the shattered Cloud that even her prayers wouldn't reach. His wrecked character could no longer be fixed. If he wasn't Cloud in the first place then, who was he? Knowing him only as a former member of Soldier, there was no way she could guess. She embraced the feeling of helplessness that she couldn't put into words.


"Cloud... I miss you. I miss the real you..."


Her whispers and thoughts became expanded into waves and spread out in the Mako.


Her memories of being with Cloud came to mind again. Her impression was that even though he wasn't very social, there was some cheerfulness about him.


"I felt something odd about him but, was everything really just made up and part of his false character? Cloud wasn't real at all? ...No, that can't be true. There were things that only Cloud could think of. Things that he done because he was Cloud. He was never an empty vessel to begin with!"


But she couldn't figure out the truth. Her thoughts just went in circles. Aerith delved into her memories again. Memories that showed Cloud's individuality. The way he walked. She remembered all his actions one by one...

Here again, if he wasn’t Cloud in the first place then who was he? She then says she misses the real him and she remembers a glimpse of the real Cloud she was able to see. Aerith goes on to say that she felt something odd about him, and even wonders if that was just part of his false persona as well. She then starts doubting that there’s a real Cloud. So she argues with herself back and fourth and finally starts to think of things that were Cloud’s. Things she remembered about him and that showed Cloud’s individuality. So her memories make Zack show up, the person who was the base of Cloud’s false persona, the person Aerith saw in Cloud. So much for Cloud’s individuality.

Aerith "You were there at the time, Zack? Then what about Cloud...?"


Zack "Woah woah, hold it there! How do you know about Cloud too? And is he safe?!"


Aerith "You know Cloud too. There really is a Cloud, isn't there?"

Does she really know Cloud? While she was alive her ability allowed her to sense the existence of the real Cloud. Now she’s dead and in the lifestream and as she thinks about it more she becomes confused, because she doesn’t really know Cloud. Aerith being a Cetra, she has a solid form in the lifestream and isn’t dissolved right away like other spirits, so her confusion can’t be from that.

but I can't see how Cloud faking a persona interferes with the way he FELT; the way he acted had absolutely no influence on his memories and feelings toward Aerith. The two things just don't interfere.

You’re right, how would Cloud having a fake persona effect the way he felt?


Ultimate Omega

Jenova has a mimic ability which allows it to read the memories and feelings
of others, then adjust its appearance, speech and behaviour accordingly to
immitate what it has seen. Jenova once used this ability to get close to the
Ancients and infect them with its virus, which killed many of them.


This ability is not limited solely to Jenova itself, for those who have its
cells within them possess it as well, though in an incomplete form.
Immediately prior to the start of the game, when Cloud's mind was shattered,
he ran into Tifa and seemed to immediately return to "normal" (-->P.13); this
was because the mimic abilities of the Jenova cells inside Cloud read her
mind, seeing her memories of him, which were then combined with his own ideal
vision of himself, fashioning a new personality for him.


(Accompanying screenshot caption 1)
According to Ifalna, the Ancients infected with the virus lost their sanity
and turned into monsters.


(Accompanying screenshot caption 2)
As Sephiroth said in the Whirlwind Maze, when Cloud met Tifa, he formed a new
personality.

That’s how.


When Cloud ran into Tifa the Jenova cells read her mind and Cloud formed a new personality with an ideal vision of himself. So, Cloud is now the strong and confident soldier he always wanted to be. So when Cloud met Aerith the Jenova cells would have read her mind and see memories of Zack. Zack is someone who both Aerith and Cloud have memories of, and in Aerith’s case had romantic feelings for. Its stated Jenova can read memories and FEELINGS, and those with Jenova cells have this ability as well, though in an incomplete form. Obviously Cloud can’t shape-shift into Zack, and he didn’t become Zack like the actual Jenova could, but his feelings could be faked.


He formed a new personality when he met Tifa, and when he meets Aerith Cloud changes again. He becomes more warm when he meets Aerith, and becomes more caring, which is different then how he was in the beginning. it’s the work of the Jenova cells. If it happened with Tifa why wouldn’t it happen with Aerith? Keep in mind Jenova would have known Aerith is a Cetra, and Jenova is responsible for making the Cetra extinct. Also it’s stated by Ifalna that Jenova could impersonate loved ones in order to get close to the Cetra then infect them.

When the Cetra... were preparing to part with the land they loved...
That's when it appeared!
It looked like... our... our dead mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us spectres of their past.


He first approached as a friend, deceived them, and finally...... gave them the virus.
The Cetra were attacked by the virus and went mad... transforming into monsters.

There its stated Jenova would approach them as a friend then infect them. Cloud isn’t Jenova so he can’t shape-shift or infect Aerith with the virus to turn her into a monster, but the Jenova cells could read her mind, see she’s the last Cetra, see her affection for Zack, see that Cloud also knew Zack, and form another persona within him. This persona feeling affection for Aerith and exhibiting behaviors like Zack that Aerith
is attracted to.

I can't see how, how is it Cloud and Tifa make more sense or come off romantically involved; when one of the very "they are raising" said herself that the two of them Cloud/Tifa don't get along. I don't think Cloud's afraid to be in a relationship especially when he lies and runs away from her and doesn't even answer he phonecalls. Nothing about that makes sense :/

Maybe I should rephrase something from my last post, Cloud and Tifa make more sense romantically to ME. I have not once said “CLOTI IS CANON! CLOTI IS TRUE! CLERITH DOESN’T HAVE A CHANCE! CLOTI YAAAAAY!!!!!” I apologize if it came off as me sounding like that. In the post above I never said “I KNOW Cloud’s in love with Tifa” I said that I BELIEVED that he was, and I NEVER disproved Aerith as a love interest or possible love interest. I never stated what “was” just what I believe. And as I stated before, I’m not arguing which one is true or intended, I’m merely stating my opinion. I have no intention of telling you Clerith is wrong. If you like Clerith, ok, I won’t bombard you with reasons why you can’t like it or why it’s not possible because FF7 is meant to be open ended. Its true Nomura never made either official, so I never say Cloti is more official than Clerith. Again, I apologize if I sounded like that, I really do. As for Cloud being afraid of being in a relationship, I say that because Cloud and Tifa aren’t a canon couple so MY conclusion is that they’re too shy to be in a relationship but are friends yet at the same time have romance like they’re more than friends. Just my take on it, I’m not saying this is how it is.


Also, he doesn’t answer calls from anyone. He’s not purely ignoring Tifa, he shut himself off from the world and lives in isolation.


Even if you’re not a fan of Cloti, Cloud isn’t desperate to get away from Tifa and she’s not some demon woman who wants his eternal soul. Leaving the love discussion completely out of this part: Cloud was fighting inner turmoil in ACC.


And I don’t remember Cloud ever lying to Tifa. Sure he may have hid things from her but in the end he always confessed what it was. We all know Tifa’s in love with Cloud in FF7 (leaving Cloud’s feelings out of it for a moment) and she did her share of hiding things and lying to him, does that mean she’s not in love with him?

Marlene told Barret that they were adopting Cloud and Tifa even calls Cloud a big kid -- and one of those kids /Marlene even said that the two of them don't get along, I wouldn't call that raising kids together, especially when Cloud doesn't even answer her calls >.>

Because a little girl has the power to make that decision. If Marlene wants to adopt Sephiroth into the family does that mean he’s part of the family? She also says she’ll take care of Cloud and Tifa but does she? She’s a little girl. For Marlene saying those things its sentimental not literal. As I recall Marlene was a bit of a brat to Cloud in FF7. Barret is Marlene’s adoptive dad and the only father she knows while Tifa is a mother figure to Marlene, where does that leave Cloud? I think Marlene simply adopted Cloud as a second father figure. Cloud is NOT part of the family because Marlene said so.


Cloud doesn’t answer calls from anyone because he shut himself off. In ACC he tells Marlene the reason he left was because he thought he couldn’t look after any of them because he couldn’t even look after himself. In the Ultimania it’s said that the reason Cloud leaves is because of his Geostigma and that he was happy with Tifa and the children but the happier he is the fear grows of him losing them so he decides to live alone waiting for death.
Also, I know many say that Barret is also part of the family of Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel but in the profiles Barret is never mentioned as part of the family. All that’s ever said is Barret left Marlene to Cloud and Tifa.

she lived together with Cloud, Marlene and Denzel, a boy who had sought shelter at the slum’s Church.


Together with the help of her friends from two years ago, she stands at the battlefield in order to protect the present and future of her “family.”


The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge.


She was given custody of Marlene from Barret, who had left on a journey. Together with Cloud, the three of them began living together.


Cloud brought Denzel back from the slum’s church and from then, it became the four of them living together.


She went to welcome Cloud who had returned after settling his personal battle.


-Tifa’s 10th Anniversary Profile and timeline

Now running a delivery business while helping out Tifa with the newly opened “Seventh Heaven” bar, Cloud, Tifa, Marlene and Denzel lived together like a family.


The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…


Failing to protect people important to him is his sin… Convincing himself of this, Cloud shuts himself off.


With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.


After visiting various locations with Tifa and Barret, Tifa opened the “Seventh Heaven” bar. Before setting off on a journey, Barret left Marlene in Cloud and Tifa’s care, and the three of them began living together.


Because he contracted Geostigma, he left Tifa and the children, and began living in the Slum church.


He defeated Sephiroth after his Advent, and returned to Tifa and the children.


-Cloud’s 10th Anniversary Profile and timeline

In both Cloud and Tifa’s profiles Barret is never mentioned as part of the family. Cloud is described as returning to Tifa and the children, not Tifa, Barret, and the children. In Tifa’s it describes her welcoming him back after he resolved his turmoil. The family is constantly referred to as “Cloud’s” family.

The hot-blooded man who returns to the battlefield,
To protect the city where his daughter lives.


he left Marlene in Tifa’s care and set off on a journey in search of an alternative source of energy in place of Mako. Upon finding out that Edge was under attack during the midst of his travels, he rushed over towards the crisis faced by his family and companions.


Even while fighting against Bahamut SIN, his head appears to be filled with thoughts of his beloved daughter as usual.


No matter how far apart they may be,
Marlene remains his beloved daughter.


Although Marlene is not his real daughter, Barret has a deep affection towards her. If possible, he would have liked to be together with her all the time, however, he could not bring her on perilous trips and their time spent living apart is actually longer. Entrusting Marlene to Elmyra’s care in FFVII and Tifa’s in AC, he fights hard day after day for the future of his “daughter.”


In order to search for an alternative energy source to Mako, he leaves Marlene in the care of Tifa
and Cloud before setting off on a journey.


-Barret’s 10th Anniversary profile and timeline

Here in Barret’s profile the only time “his family” is mentioned is once. The crisis of his family and companions, ok so you could say that the family is Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene, however in the rest of the profile its stated that he returns to protect the city where Marlene lives. Everything else about Barret’s profile is centered around his love for Marlene.

Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma-- his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live. He realizes that he was able to forgive himself.

His “family” were waiting, Barret is not mentioned. And in CoT, Cloud and Tifa WEREN’T getting a long. Tifa herself felt the turmoil. There’s even a quote saying there’s a premise things aren’t going well, because they’re not! It’s not because Cloud is unhappy with Tifa, it’s stated he’s very happy living with Tifa but can’t let go of the past, it’s stated he feels he can’t protect anyone. It’s never stated that he wants to be with Aerith or is in love with her, only that he wants her forgiveness. His guilt is constantly referred to by his own personal battle, and at the end he goes back to living with Tifa and the children…where he “belongs.”

In the end he became a hero who saved the life of the planet, but what he lost during that battle took a heavy toll, and Cloud’s heart continued to be tormented by a deep sense of regret and blame towards himself. It was during this that he met Denzel, a boy inflicted by “Geostigma,” a mysterious illness believed to be caused by Meteor. And so Cloud leaves and struggles to find a cure for this illness. However, he finds himself infected by Geostigma, and as if fleeing he removes himself from the presence of his friends. Cloud suffers at the thought of being unable to save anybody. His heart remains trapped as it was 2 years ago…
-Cloud’s ACC profile

It’s all already been stated.

What, mutual feelings? I don't remember that,

The mutual feelings they share under the HW.

(FFVIIUO, pg. 15)


"Declares that the team should dissolve in the final hours before the final battle, and communicates his feelings together with Tifa, who remains behind at the airship with him."




(FFVIIUO, pg. 27)
"When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. "




(FFVIIUO, pg. 27)


"If Tifa's affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm that their feelings of desire/wanting for one another match."




(FFVIIUO, pg. 198)


"When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa are the only two to remain behind. They reveal their mutual feelings in their final hours, and......."




(CCU, pg. 33)


"She communicates her feelings together with Cloud in the final stages of the story, and in AC and DC they live together."




(FFVII 10th AU, pg. 118; pg. 120 in the Revised Edition)


"Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match."




(U20 Scenario, pg. 232; main body of story summary)


"And when Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, they disclose that their feelings for each other match."




(U20 Scenario, pg. 394)


"VII - The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."




(FFVIIUO, pg. 27; complete entry)


"When Cloud proposes that the group separates temporarily, she remains behind at the airship and communicates her feelings together with Cloud. The next morning, she departs for the Northern Crater along with her companions, who returned.


'Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you're thinking......'
-Said to Cloud, when he is at a loss for words while they're alone


If Tifa's affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm their matching feelings of desire/wanting to one another. This line is said by Tifa at the conversation's end. Immediately after saying it, Tifa forms a striking smile that summarizes everything."




(FFVIIUO, pg. 39)


"Yuffie is unaware that Cloud and Tifa had just spent the night together. Woman's intuition is as perceptive as ever, no?"




(FFVIIUO, pg. 198)


"Night before the final battle......
After stopping Hojo's recklessness and before heading to the Northern Crater, the conversation scene with Tifa can diverge drastically depending on Tifa's affection rating. When the affection rating is low, the conversation scene where the two spend the evening is candid and rather short. In the scene on the bridge the next morning, Tifa asks 'Were you listening?' and taps her foot. On the other hand, if the affection rating is high, the two spend the evening in focused conversation, and on the bridge, Tifa asks 'Were you watching?' and collapses in embarassment."




(FFVIIUO, pg. 201)


[Screenshot caption]


"Before the final battle......
Variations determined by Tifa's affection rating apply from the beginning of the evening with Cloud and Tifa on the grassland until the conversation where they reunite with their companions on the airship. If the affection rating is high, Cloud and Tifa convey their feelings in powerful lines.


[Screenshot caption]
Upon returning to the airship, Yuffie will say 'Gee, Cloud...... that's so nice of you to say that. ......You sick?' regardless of the contents of the conversation of Cloud's conversation."

Those mutual feelings. In U20 on the for the one I love page features the HA HW version on a page dedicated to romantic love (with the exception of Terra’s portion) and it says Cloud and Tifa share mutual feelings for each other. We know Tifa’s in love with Cloud, so mutual meaning Cloud feels the same. How do I know it wasn’t of friendship or support? Because they were already friends and already supported each other. Furthermore, how would you convey feelings of friendship or support without using words? And it seems like showing feelings of friendship and support wouldn’t need a fade to black scene after saying “words aren’t the only way to tell someone how you feel”.


Then of coarse there’s page 232 that shows both version of the scene. Here’s the thing, there ARE 2 versions. Page 232 is just giving extra information about the 2 scenes because the game is under player control. The same can be said for the Clerith date, it’s under player control. Now, the FTOIL page shows romantic love and the HA HW scene is on it as well as the Clerith date. This page proves that both the Clerith date and HW scene are canon. Under the screenshots there’s captions to explain the scene. Under the HW scene it says:

The night before the final battle


Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.

There it confirms they share mutual feelings. Now for the Clerith date it says:

At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.

All this shows is that nothing romantic was going on between Cloud and Aerith during the date. It doesn’t even reference feelings on Aerith’s side, at all! Which is pretty puzzling. You’d think on a page with mainly romantic love they’d make some sort of romantic connotation between Cloud and Aerith or drop hints like


“Aerith discovers the true Cloud and realizes she’s in love with him. While Cloud is able to be his true self around her.”


Doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything actually. It just sounds like the date is suppose to be purely optional, but we know it’s not because the game favors Aerith’s date, and why would they feature an unconan date? So yes, the Clerith date is canon…but the captions don’t tell us of any romance between Cloud and Aerith.


If the HA HW scene is purely optional then why doesn’t it say “Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself and will either share feelings or the conversation will end abruptly depending on the level of affection.”


That’s pretty ambiguous and just reinforces the scene is optional, and the screenshot has Tifa leaning on Cloud’s shoulder which happened in both versions, so they very well could have put such an ambiguous caption…but…they didn’t. Also the line about Cloud and Tifa having mutual feelings is referenced more than the LA scene. I already provided you with those so I won’t post it again.

I remember Cloud being the "loser" of Nibelheim and having no friends least of all Tifa and a dim unrequited crush on her, I remember Cloud not even being good enough for her until he was going off the join SOLDIER.

The “loser” of Nibelheim?

Cloud
Tifa always used to be with this three-some.


Tifa
...That's right.


Cloud
I used to think... they were all stupid.


Tifa
What!?


Cloud
You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing.


Tifa
But we were children, back then.


Cloud
...I know. I'm the one that was stupid.
I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group.
Then later... I began to think I was different...
That I was different from those immature kids.
That then... maybe...


Just maybe, they would invite me in.
I thought that might happen, so I hung around...
Cloud
I was so prejudiced. And... weak.

Here Cloud fully admits that not being allowed into the group was his fault. He says he wanted to play with everyone but never was allowed into the group but why? He thought they were all stupid and childish, and even says he thought if he acted different from those “immature” kids that they might like him. Cloud even says HE was being prejudice, stupid and weak.


And a dim crush? He would stand outside Tifa’s house and stare up at her window. That sounds pretty obsessive. Also, when Tifa traveled to MT. Nibel her three friends warned her how dangerous it was and how no one has crossed the mountains alive. Her three friends who she hung out with ALL the time eventually bailed on her, but Cloud didn’t. If it was such a dim crush why would he waste his time following her on such a dangerous adventure? And last longer than any of her actual friends?


As for not being good enough for her, Cloud thought that, no one else told him he wasn’t good enough for her. The only one who I can think of that was hostile towards Cloud regarding Tifa is her father.

Tifa's Father
Cloud! Why'd you bring Tifa to a place like this!
What the hell's the matter with you!?
What if she dies!?


Cloud
Tifa was in a coma for seven days.
We all thought she wouldn't make it.
If only I could've saved her...
I was so angry... Angry at myself for my weakness.
Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me...
I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who it was.


Cloud
That was the first time I heard about Sephiroth.
If I got strong like Sephiroth, then everyone might...


Cloud
If I could just get stronger...... Then even Tifa would have to notice me...…

Cloud thought Tifa blamed him and hated him, which we all know she didn’t. If she hated him and blamed him why did she show up to the well in the first place? Her accident wasn’t even Cloud’s fault in the least but he still felt like it. A dim crush, yet he sounds desperate for her acknowledgement. During that time, Tifa isn’t even aware that Cloud liked her. She was surprised when he told her why he joined SOLDIER, and she was surprised that Cloud suddenly called her out to the well, which is a date spot, and I’ve never heard of Tifa going there with anyone else other than Cloud. When she showed up at the well she had no idea Cloud was leaving for SOLDIER, so why did she if she thought he wasn’t good enough for her?

I mean, I am not trying to jump down anyones throat but I hear these misinterpretations and things that never happened all the time; its both confusing and frustrating.

To tell you the truth, you did come off as a bit hostile, but now that I have provided information backing up my conclusion I hope that cleared things up. Misinterpretations? Things that never happened? Yes those are incredibly annoying, I’ve heard a few myself here and there. I don’t believe I misinterpreted anything. With the LTD it’s left up to our interpretations, I’d say a misinterpretation is if Cloud ate strawberry ice cream and start yelling that it’s Clerith proof, or Cloud walking down the alcohol aisle in the store and saying it’s Cloti proof. As for things that never happened I already backed up my reasoning. My first post was pretty vague wasn’t it…? Well hopefully now you see where I’m coming from. Again, I don’t claim which one is canon, true, or intended, but Cloti makes the most sense TO ME. It is merely my own conclusion, nothing more.

 

[Saints&Storms]

I sense a lot of hostility in your post. I’m going to clear up a few things.

I don't know how you could possibly sense hostility if you read my entire post, I clearly said;

I mean, I am not trying to jump down anyones throat but I hear these misinterpretations and things that never happened all the time; its both confusing and frustrating.

Nomura never stated that Aerith knew the real Cloud. All that is stated is that Aerith perceived Cloud had lost himself, and knew that the Cloud she was talking to and interacting with was indeed not the real Cloud. Aerith knew there was a real Cloud, that’s true, Nomura states that Aerith had seen glimpses of the real Cloud, that’s true. Aerith DID NOT know the real Cloud, she never got the chance to meet him.

The real Cloud was out and about all the time in FFVII, you could call it the real him seeping out, things like him telling wedge to "Blow Off" were the REAL Cloud, I can't believe I am even using that stupid term "REAL" Cloud it makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. Aerith says in FFVII that the little things Cloud does "Gestures, language etc. etc." were similar to Zack but she came to realize that they were completely different. If "little glimpses" as you wanna call it came out; that indeed means she met the real Cloud, and if that doesn't put that argument to rest Aerith gets to know him even more from the Lifestream, I mean come on; how is it even logical to say and use "Aerith never knew him" as an argument -- she's already declared her love for him several times as have the creators themselves.

”At first when I met Cloud, I believed he was similar to Zack. Little actions, the way he spoke… his kindness. But Cloud is Cloud. I, now undoubtedly, love Cloud much more than Zack,“ - Aerith in DISMANTLED

And even more so when we look at the interview with Nomura himself; proving even further that the real Cloud did come out all the time, especially when he was a jerk or distant like he usually was on DISC 1

In the scene when the young Cloud explains his mental state by saying "I used to think people around me were foolish", surprisingly, he shows the posture of shrugging his shoulders.
If we consider this, the part of his coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting "not interested" all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells, They belong to the real Cloud's personality.
(FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 180)

Her feelings she had for Cloud were originally because he reminded her of Zack, this changed later when she realized that the Cloud who reminded her of Zack was NOT the real Cloud, and that’s when she started to grow curious and attracted to the real Cloud. She wanted to KNOW him, she was attracted to that mysterious part of him, but as for actually knowing him…she didn’t. She only knew the existence of real Cloud. She knew OF him, but didn’t actually know him. Its also stated that the reason Aerith was able to sense the real Cloud is because of her ability as a Cetra so it’s not something specific to Cloud and only Cloud.

Once again I reference the above, Aerith says in Dismantled that she loved Cloud for Cloud, at the point in the game where you enter Gongaga for the first time, considerably that is a very early time to love Cloud for the real Cloud, especially considering she saw through his "false persona". So I really have to insist she did indeed see through and get to know the Cloud we all love. I never said her being able to see through him was specific for Cloud; but Aerith talking to Clouds heart at the Temple of The Ancients is exclusive to Cloud; many other things as well. So, once again, yes Aerith loved Cloud for Cloud and knew him.

There’s official quotes backing everything I said in the first few paragraphs. She never knew Cloud but she knew his existence, she knew there was a real Cloud. The only thing Aerith was able to perceive was who Cloud WASN’T not who he was. She did see glimpses of the real Cloud, because the real Cloud was present. Cloud DID NOT become Zack. It was simply a false persona and real Cloud was in there somewhere. We learn this in the lifestream sequence.

Once again, read the quotes I have posted, I assure they prove Aerith truly knew Cloud and loved him genuinely, not to mention that actually saw more than just glimpses of him. And I feel compelled to ask how exactly does a false persona affect the way someone feels? And outward action wouldn't change or affect said persons inward feelings and memories. I know Cloud wasn't Zack...did I say he was? I don't think I ever did.

If Aerith knew the real Cloud why would she be asking a 4-5 year old what kind of person Cloud is? Aerith should have all ready have known right? Or at least have a broad idea on what type of person the REAL Cloud was. Again, she knew of him, but didn’t know him.

Eh? What? That's relatively EARLY in the game, of course she hadn't known much about him at that time, they knew each other for a day at most; I think bringing that up at all was kind of...silly, since that's just after they met. So , again, when Aerith spent time with Marlene and asked such things; Cloud and Aerith knew each other for 2 days at most.

"I felt something odd about him but, was everything really just made up and part of his false character? Cloud wasn't real at all? ...No, that can't be true. There were things that only Cloud could think of. Things that he done because he was Cloud. He was never an empty vessel to begin with!"


But she couldn't figure out the truth. Her thoughts just went in circles. Aerith delved into her memories again. Memories that showed Cloud's individuality. The way he walked. She remembered all his actions one by one...

Everything Aerith says here prove once again she saw, met and knew the real Cloud. She even said she misses the REAL Cloud, how can you miss someone you don't and never have known anyway? Let alone the fact that she recalls his individuality at the ending there. I mean if that doesn't prve it I don't know what will. Nobody is saying Aerith knew the real Cloud the second they met eachother; we're saying over the course of the first disc Artith DID infact get to see and know the true Cloud, Zack appearing proves absolutely nothing; speculating that that proves she was thinking of "Zack" and not Cloud; is just that speculating.

“Although in the beginning, Aerith felt close to Cloud because he behaved like Zack, her interest in Cloud himself grows and she is attracted to him.” -PG.31 FFVII ULTIMANIA OMEGA

Here is yet another quote that go on to straight up contradict your predictions and speculations.

Does she really know Cloud? While she was alive her ability allowed her to sense the existence of the real Cloud. Now she’s dead and in the lifestream and as she thinks about it more she becomes confused, because she doesn’t really know Cloud. Aerith being a Cetra, she has a solid form in the lifestream and isn’t dissolved right away like other spirits, so her confusion can’t be from that.

What? She's confused thats all, she's if anything proving to both the viewer and herself that she was right all along, and there was nothing to worry about; how does that at all prove she doesn't know him? She's actually taking it all in and finally concluding she was right the first time; She DID know Cloud and there was a real Cloud .

Jenova has a mimic ability which allows it to read the memories and feelings
of others, then adjust its appearance, speech and behaviour accordingly to
immitate what it has seen. Jenova once used this ability to get close to the
Ancients and infect them with its virus, which killed many of them.

No, just....no.


I'm sorry, but what? Its say right there she can mimic and read their memories and feelings and allow her to ALTER or ADJUST APPEARANCE, SPEECH and BEHAVIOUR based on what IT/SAID PERSON has seen; not alter the feelings of said person person. So once again how does adjusting a persona/behaviour/speech/appearance affect at all the way Cloud would FEEL & REMEMBER Aerith?

Maybe I should rephrase something from my last post, Cloud and Tifa make more sense romantically to ME. I have not once said “CLOTI IS CANON! CLOTI IS TRUE! CLERITH DOESN’T HAVE A CHANCE! CLOTI YAAAAAY!!!!!” I apologize if it came off as me sounding like that. In the post above I never said “I KNOW Cloud’s in love with Tifa” I said that I BELIEVED that he was, and I NEVER disproved Aerith as a love interest or possible love interest.

Okay, like I said I was confused and not trying to jump down anyone's throats. This is the debate thread so I assumed you were debating.

Also, he doesn’t answer calls from anyone. He’s not purely ignoring Tifa, he shut himself off from the world and lives in isolation.

Even if you’re not a fan of Cloti, Cloud isn’t desperate to get away from Tifa and she’s not some demon woman who wants his eternal soul. Leaving the love discussion completely out of this part: Cloud was fighting inner turmoil in ACC.

Okay, I agree competely, Tifa is just like everyone else to him, he ignores; Yuffie, Barret, Cid, Cait Sith etc. etc. Nothing special or else he wouldn't ignore her calls and lump her with his pals. Because going to Aeriths Church while he is ignoring Tifa and Co. shows us the only person he was't ignoring; was Aerith.

I'm not saying she is, I like Tifa but I am not going to deny what Cloud does to her or lack there of because I like her. All I know, is before he was "fighting his inner turmoil" or contracted Geostigma he wasn't answering her calls as well as not even calling her.

And I don’t remember Cloud ever lying to Tifa. Sure he may have hid things from her but in the end he always confessed what it was. We all know Tifa’s in love with Cloud in FF7 (leaving Cloud’s feelings out of it for a moment) and she did her share of hiding things and lying to him, does that mean she’s not in love with him?

Um, yes. It means her "Love" wasn't genuine. Not to mention Cloud didn't even tell Tifa he was ill, he kept that lie, so no -- he doesn't always confess as well as not telling her he wnt to Aerith moms -- although, I say its not really her buisiness since they aren't dating.

Because a little girl has the power to make that decision. If Marlene wants to adopt Sephiroth into the family does that mean he’s part of the family? She also says she’ll take care of Cloud and Tifa but does she? She’s a little girl. For Marlene saying those things its sentimental not literal. As I recall Marlene was a bit of a brat to Cloud in FF7. Barret is Marlene’s adoptive dad and the only father she knows while Tifa is a mother figure to Marlene, where does that leave Cloud? I think Marlene simply adopted Cloud as a second father figure. Cloud is NOT part of the family because Marlene said so.

Yes, she does; I mean this kid ran 7th Heaven at the age of 4 while Tifa went out with AVALANCHE blowing up reactors, she detectds when Tifa's lonely and Tifa even recognizes she's a mature kid. I'd say she's pretty mature. Though of course she didn't literally adopt Cloud, but she and Tifa certainly view him as a big child addition to the family. I say the Guy Marlene calls "Daddy" is the father figure, since she indeed calls him just that -- but I wan't speculate that Cloud is a "father" to her since she never addresses him as such.

Cloud doesn’t answer calls from anyone because he shut himself off. In ACC he tells Marlene the reason he left was because he thought he couldn’t look after any of them because he couldn’t even look after himself. In the Ultimania it’s said that the reason Cloud leaves is because of his Geostigma and that he was happy with Tifa and the children but the happier he is the fear grows of him losing them so he decides to live alone waiting for death.
Also, I know many say that Barret is also part of the family of Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel but in the profiles Barret is never mentioned as part of the family. All that’s ever said is Barret left Marlene to Cloud and Tifa.

Again with the call thing? Cloud doesn't call Tifa before he ever contracts Geostigma; when he finds Denzel -- before he ever got Geostigma -- Denzel picks up Clouds phone outside Aeriths Church -- where he was living -- and Tifa answers saying "Cloud, You never Call!" so once again; he didn't pick up the phone or call her at all before he ever got Geostigma; he just didn't call her. Point blank.

In both Cloud and Tifa’s profiles Barret is never mentioned as part of the family. Cloud is described as returning to Tifa and the children, not Tifa, Barret, and the children. In Tifa’s it describes her welcoming him back after he resolved his turmoil. The family is constantly referred to as “Cloud’s” family.


Here in Barret’s profile the only time “his family” is mentioned is once. The crisis of his family and companions, ok so you could say that the family is Cloud, Tifa, and Marlene, however in the rest of the profile its stated that he returns to protect the city where Marlene lives. Everything else about Barret’s profile is centered around his love for Marlene.

Speculation at best; Marlene calls Barret "Dad" hence making him a part of the Family as well as the Father of the Family; as well as telling Marlene to be good to the Family. I don't care how many times its mentions -- Barret is Marlenes Father in FFVII theres no getting rid of him; SHe doesn and never has called Cloud "Dad" -- and be it one mention or not -- its still is called his family.

He's still in the family. He is the Father. End of Story.

His “family” were waiting, Barret is not mentioned. And in CoT, Cloud and Tifa WEREN’T getting a long. Tifa herself felt the turmoil. There’s even a quote saying there’s a premise things aren’t going well, because they’re not! It’s not because Cloud is unhappy with Tifa, it’s stated he’s very happy living with Tifa but can’t let go of the past, it’s stated he feels he can’t protect anyone. It’s never stated that he wants to be with Aerith or is in love with her, only that he wants her forgiveness. His guilt is constantly referred to by his own personal battle, and at the end he goes back to living with Tifa and the children…where he “belongs.”

And? You already proved yourself Barret is mentioned other times, Barret doesn't know Denzel how could he be the one or one of many longing for him to be healed? They never met, once again how does that mean anything? He was living there before and they weren't "in love" then nothing has changed now. Of course He was happy he has a family, you can be happy with people and not love them; or else that makes Cloud equally in love with Children...which is creepy. It's never said anywhere he loves Tifa either but It has been stated Cloud is Aeriths lover/koibito.

It’s all already been stated.

Cloud wasn't answering or calling her before he ever met Denzel or got Geostigma; Cloud was at Aeriths Church, Denzel found his phone; Tifa says "Cloud, You never call", he found Denzel believing Aerith had given him to him, brought him home, got Geostigma, left again. Thats how it went.

The mutual feelings they share under the HW.

Actually that's completely incorrect if you'll read below

"The night before the final battle

Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match."

The claim that these feelings MUST be of love and because they are confirmed without words, it must have been physically, which HAS to mean sex in the blackout cause we didnt see it happen. I say thats a load of BS.

First of all, take a good look at the scene in the picture, its the scene AFTER the so called "sex time blackout" (after tifa says "Words arent the only thing that tell people what you're thinking"), its when the scenario changes to Tifa standing up, to sitting beside cloud. This is the dialogue in the HA version;

"Tifa
"Umm... G, good morning... Cloud."
"Give me a little longer... Just a little bit longer..."
(She rests his head on his shoulder again.)

Tifa
"This day will never come again ... So let me have this moment..."

(He nods)

Cloud
"Yeah... okay."

(He lowers his head again.)

Cloud
"This is probably the last time we'll have together......"

Take a good look at the bolded parts of the dialogue. Cloud and Tifa clearly show they agree about the same thing, the share the SAME FEELINGS with one another and TELL each other that. Then afterwards, tifa stays next to Cloud and just enjoys the moment without saying ANYTHING ( this is portrayed by the second blackout, where tifa goes off to snooze, so no sex there boys and girls ). Also, if it was the blackout that showed these explicit scenes, then why did tifa mention THIS MOMENT, the moment she is sitting next to cloud, and its just them two, and not the blackout scene? Makes no sense.

In BOTH the HA and the LA scene, that dialogue above is said in BOTH versions. The ONLY difference is Cloud's last line.

In the HA scene, Cloud says this in reply to tifa's "Let me have this moment";
Cloud "Yeah... okay. This is probably the last time we'll have together......"

In the LA scene, Cloud says this in reply to tifa's "Let me have this moment";
Cloud "............"

As you can see, in the HA scene Cloud SHARES the same feelings as Tifa ( about this day not happening again or last day they will have/together ), and in the LA scene, he does not. The only part of the WHOLE scene in where Cloud and Tifa SHARE the same feelings is in the HA scene where Cloud agrees to what tifa says.

So im guessing, IF the HA scene is meant to be romantic, it is "Clouds last line" that makes it so. IF its not meant to be romantic, then "Clouds last line" is meant to suggest the "strong and deep" feelings SE mentioned about the scene. Either way, they didnt have sex like clotis say, nothing happened in the black out, and the feelings ( romantic or not ) SE states are the ones we SEE, not the ones we dont.

http://www.yinza.com/Fandom/Script/44.html#speech

So basically, in the HA scene, Cloud will let Tifa have this moment ( which is her sitting next to cloud in an "intimate way" NOT SAYING ANYTHING ) which means he shows his feelings without using words by letting her do that. BUT for the LA scene, Cloud doesnt share the same feelings as Tifa and replies very blankly and quickly.

All this shows is that nothing romantic was going on between Cloud and Aerith during the date. It doesn’t even reference feelings on Aerith’s side, at all! Which is pretty puzzling. You’d think on a page with mainly romantic love they’d make some sort of romantic connotation between Cloud and Aerith or drop hints like

Doesn’t say that. It doesn’t say anything actually. It just sounds like the date is suppose to be purely optional, but we know it’s not because the game favors Aerith’s date, and why would they feature an unconan date? So yes, the Clerith date is canon…but the captions don’t tell us of any romance between Cloud and Aerith.

#111 The Planet's largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. A promised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now... " - FFVII ART COLLECTION

Least of all the fact that is was a date; which are in and of themseleves romantic. I eman Cloud and Aerith are the canon date this much is known, and whether or not you thinks its romantic is up to you but offcially its a date that ends magically, in the city of desire.

Here Cloud fully admits that not being allowed into the group was his fault. He says he wanted to play with everyone but never was allowed into the group but why? He thought they were all stupid and childish, and even says he thought if he acted different from those “immature” kids that they might like him. Cloud even says HE was being prejudice, stupid and weak.

WHAT!? How can you say them excluding Cloud is his fault? Thats the most warped thing I've ever heard. "...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group." > He clearly says he wanted in but was never allowed in because he was different from them, he even waited outside Tifa's house and was never allowed in. And then he goes on to say he was different even more and that "Just maybe, they would invite me in. I thought that might happen, so I hung around..." if he wasn't different. And this is Clouds fault? Wow, juts, wow.

And a dim crush? He would stand outside Tifa’s house and stare up at her window. That sounds pretty obsessive. Also, when Tifa traveled to MT. Nibel her three friends warned her how dangerous it was and how no one has crossed the mountains alive. Her three friends who she hung out with ALL the time eventually bailed on her, but Cloud didn’t. If it was such a dim crush why would he waste his time following her on such a dangerous adventure? And last longer than any of her actual friends?

"(Crisis Core Ultimania, Tifa's profile) Before leaving Nibelheim, Cloud declared that "I'll be a SOLDIER" to a village girl, Tifa, whom he had a dim crush on"

Yes, it has officially been labeled a dim crush. Wow, still going on with the Cloud bashing I see. But that just proves even more he tried and wanted to be friends and was still shunend by them; because they didn't like him. Crushes are imprtant to kids; Cloud was a kid -- not to mention one that had no friends. I think he'd go do anything for a friend, since he had none.

As for not being good enough for her, Cloud thought that, no one else told him he wasn’t good enough for her. The only one who I can think of that was hostile towards Cloud regarding Tifa is her father.

Cloud himself said they'd referring to [Tifa's Group] would not allow him in, let alone when he waited outside her house and was never invited by Tifa herself. They shunned Cloud not the other way around.

A dim crush, yet he sounds desperate for her acknowledgement. During that time, Tifa isn’t even aware that Cloud liked her. She was surprised when he told her why he joined SOLDIER, and she was surprised that Cloud suddenly called her out to the well, which is a date spot, and I’ve never heard of Tifa going there with anyone else other than Cloud. When she showed up at the well she had no idea Cloud was leaving for SOLDIER, so why did she if she thought he wasn’t good enough for her?

I'm not the one who called it a dim crush that would be the creators themselves, In the Crisis Core Ultimania, so arguing it with me is pointless; its not an opinion of mine its cold hard facts. Cloud was a kid with a crush they do immature things when they are kids, who doesn't? Rationalizing the actions of a child is silly, I take them with a grain of salt myself.

To tell you the truth, you did come off as a bit hostile, but now that I have provided information backing up my conclusion I hope that cleared things up. Misinterpretations? Things that never happened? Yes those are incredibly annoying, I’ve heard a few myself here and there. I don’t believe I misinterpreted anything. With the LTD it’s left up to our interpretations, I’d say a misinterpretation is if Cloud ate strawberry ice cream and start yelling that it’s Clerith proof, or Cloud walking down the alcohol aisle in the store and saying it’s Cloti proof. As for things that never happened I already backed up my reasoning. My first post was pretty vague wasn’t it…? Well hopefully now you see where I’m coming from. Again, I don’t claim which one is canon, true, or intended, but Cloti makes the most sense TO ME. It is merely my own conclusion, nothing more.

Sorry you took it that way. If someone says something they usually mean it, especially myself, I just come off really brash over the internet; I thin that can't be helped. Yes, things that aren't' true and never happened; Aerith not know the "Real Cloud" etc. etc. I have know Idea about the whole Icecream/Alcohol thing, don't even know what you're getting at there.

I never said or accused that you claimed it was canon, I just said that I don't get how it "makes sense" that Cloud and Tifa love each other, because it doesn't -- what makes sense to one person is complete madness to another. I saw what you did say and you said it makes sense like anything contrary is "senseless", ne?



@Sheechiibii

Now that I've finally seen the quote it's nothing like what Clerith fans make it out to be. There's nothing there about Cloud's feelings being different or even stronger than the love each of her comrades felt, it certainly doesn't mean he was in love with her, merely that he'd never forget her and cared about her dearly.

Well, its pretty self explanatory; If Cloud has a feeling for Aerith that is different than what her friends have; what else could it be? Either all her friends lover her romantically and Cloud harbors friend feelings or vice versa; Her friends are exactly that Friends and Clouds feelings are different than her Friends. How does undying feeling somehow translate to never forget? If Nomura wanted to say "He'd never forget her" he would habe said that -- like he has in other interviews/compilations additions.

You see it one way and I see it another, but there is nothing in the game that proves it's one or the other. It's completely obvious that he feels deep guilt (to say otherwise is a bit ridiculous given he almost killed her himself and beat her up last time they met) and that someone he cared about deeply was just killed in front of his face. These things alone would warrant his reaction, the question of him loving her is in no way proven by this in any way, it's just your interpretation that his feelings were that of love but it's as likely that they weren't.

Its not my view Cloud says himself why he feels the way he does about Aeriths death and why he's exactly angry; he tells Sephiroth his plans for world destruction don't mean anything -- where has Cloud ever even come close to stating he's only guilty because he nearly killed her himself? I never recall him or creators saying anything like that.


"She watched Cloud's face which looked as if his heart was going to fall apart from the sadness of losing
her, the anger and hate he had for her being taken from him." ~ Maiden of The Planet

Maiden of the Planet as well already tols us WHY he was suffereing; and its because she and he are separated, not because he had unresolved guilt for beating her -- He already got to apologize for this -- its redundant to insist this of all things is the reason he suffers in lonliness over Aeriths death.

Cloud: ...Shut up. The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing. Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry...... What about us...... what are WE supposed to do? What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!

Nope, never once did he say anything about having nearly killed her himself; only thing that matters as he has said is that Aerith is gone -- and now the plans Sephiroth had to desroy the world mean nothing. Saying otherwise is just putting words in Clouds mouth.

Again, none of that actually points to Cloud's feelings being that of love, losing a piece of himself and not being easily consoled is kind of a given if he was guilt ridden and had just lost a precious friend. Being in love with her is not necessary to explain any of these quotes you've provided.

I know I don't have my heart shatter over anything; hearts shatter and break over love and romance, and Clouds heart shattered when Aerith died, or like Maiden Of The Planet said; when HE lost her. I already told you is feelings are undying and opposite of friend feelings like Nomura said in the 2007 interview. Put two and two together Undying Feeling + Opposite to Friend feelings.

I apologise, I was wrong about the AC scene, I checked it on youtube and Cloud smiles at Tifa before he sees Aerith and Zack. My point is still there though, just the other way round, Tifa and Cloud smle at each other and then Aerith leaves with Zack.

Denzel is healed, everyone cheers and Cloud smiles to everyone around the church, not once does he solely smile at Tifa. He smiles at Aerith. This is a fact, you try to make it sound as if Cloud: Smiles, sees Aerith and doesn't give a second glance no. He smiles at Aerith.

My point stands also; Aerith was the only woman in FFVII/AC to make Cloud feel like he was no lopnger alone.

Yes it was Aerith who put his mind at rest, but that makes sense because who's death is haunting him? Tifa can't exactly help him get rid of the guilt over Aerith can she? He distances himself from people because he feels he doesn't deserve their friendship after the things he's done. He needed the closure to be at peace, but that doesn't have to have anything to do with being in love with her unless you want to see it that way, there's nothing that you've provided yet that hasn't been up to interpretation and could very well just be completely platonic.

And all this is the way you want to see it, there IS evidence to prove Cloud and Aerith are in love and that Cloud himself feels and holds romantic feelinsg for her; because like I said; He's got an undying feelings different than friendship, his heart shattered for her, HE was separated from HER, He is called her LOVER in CoL:White, the international comercials call them a "LOVE", she's in his heart, they went on TWO dates etc. etc.

You keep moving the goal post; one moment He only smiles at Tifa and that equates love somehow but when his heart shatters for Aerith, it means nothing xD Its both impossible and kind of annoying.

He never even answers Tifa''s phone calls and somehow they are in love? If you love someone they should and are supposed to be able to help you through any and all problems you have. Especially if said person lpoves them back. Or at least answer the phone.

-クラウドは女の友人であり、恋人であり——大切なものの象徴であり、守るべき存在だった。
-Cloud wa onna no yuujin de ari , koibito de ari —— taisetsu na mono no shouchou de ari , mamoru beki sonzai datta
-Cloud is the woman's friend, lover (koibito)---he is a symbol for something important, an existence that she must protect.
- Case of Lifestream: White

The above was written my Nojima himself, and somehow they aren't in love? I can't possibly see how you can be lovers and not be in love; I mean thats a little odd. This among many other things (going on dates) have established Cloud and Aerith shared a romance.

And when he turns around--- "she" is starting to leave. Together with the friend who had given Cloud his life. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness... And so they too go back to where they belong. ~ ~FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania (Revised Edition) AC Playback

I also can't see how he'd suffer in lonliness if he had the woman he loved -- allegedly Tifa in this case -- with him, I mean she always wanted to talk and try to help, but he's still suffering in lonliness?

“there seems to be something between them”. [Aerith’s info page, FFVII Ultimania Omega]

Again, how can there be something between them, and not have romane between them; on one hand we have a guy who goes on dates with her, keeps her in his heart, has an undying feeling/opposite friendship for her, and had his heart shatter when she only left his side....?

It’s just that...I was displeased at the way Cloud and another girl soon became good friends.
Well, Aerith is a very good girl, I was fond of her soon, too. No wonder…
-- Tifa, DISMANTLED

Even Tifa noticed there was something between them almost immediately; like we have established Tifa obviously liked/loved Cloud and she saw reason between Cloud/Aerith to be jealous and sidpleased at their interest in eachother and closeness.


Seeing Cloud and Aerith developing their world together before her eyes, she inadvertently lets slip her peevish feelings. ~ Final Fantasy VII 10th Anniversary Ultimania

Not only are they buidling a two-person world, but its one even Tifa is jealpous of; and as I said above we all know Tifa like or loved Cloud; and now she's jealous and insecure about Aertih?

It leaves, not a dramatic feeling, but a feeling of emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think 'If I had knowni this was coming I would have done things differently.' -- Nomura, concerning Aeriths death, Edge, Magazine, 2003

If Cloud didn't and doesn't love her, why and how exactly is there a connection between losing someone you love very much and the way Cloud lost Aerith? Personally, if Nomura himself is going to see the obvious similarities between Cloud/Aerith and A love Story, I will to.

I'd like to see these. I didn't play the game until years after it was released and have never seen promotion labelling Cloud and Aerith as a love story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q94akM503ek

Here it is. As well as the French version;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_kY7U6jeSU

Well, it wasn't me who said they were in a bloomng relationship. He didn't answer his phone in AC because he was distancing himself from people, he was avoiding everyone, Tifa wasn't the only one. He called Aerith's church his place because that's where he went to be alone, where he felt at peace because he's so bothered by her death still. The whole if AC highlighted how bad Cloud had it when it came to how Aerith died and how during the course of the film he slowly comes to realise that it wasn't his fault and that he can move on and live, that his friends are there for him and that he does deserve them.

Oh I know that was really to the person who said that, not really sure who it was now that I think about it. I just saw it somwhere here.

Thats the thing, Cloud doesn;t answer the phone BEFORE he ever finds Denzel, or contracts Geostigma -- not only is he not calling her during Advenmt Children, he wasn't calling her long before that.
When Cloud first meets Denzel; it was when the kid was on his phone to Tifa; and Tifa had just finished saying "Cloud? You never call!", this is a flashback scene Denzel has in ACC.

Actually yes, Cloud does go there because he feels peace; thats actually true.

If Cloud loves Tifa shouldn't he feel peace with her? I mean once again here he is needing to run to Aerith to feel better, feel peace and have some sort of comfort, I mean Tifa did try -- but Cloud ignored her.


What about Zack? Cloud let Zack die and you don't see him living on the hill where he was laid to rest? Why is Aerith so special? Why does Cloud & the Creators specify HER death being the reason he shuts himself off and falls into suffering lonliness? Cloud never even grieved over Zack -- so WHY is Aertih special.

AC paints a picture of them being in an almost-relationship but having major problems on Clouds side as far as holding back is concerned. I'm not saying that's fact, that's my interpretation, just like you have your interpretation that he was in love with Aerith and is not bothered just by guilt and loosing a dear friend but that he actually loved her. Neither version is wrong, Square has deliberately left this ambiguous because that's the smart thing to do. Ever since the first game, Clouds feelings were up to the player. The way he and Aerith meet hardly counts as development unless you think he fell in love with her in 5 minutes and that's as deep as his feelings go. I played the game recently and believe me, Aerith was barely there at all after the first meeting.

I never said he wasn't bothered by losing her, ofcourse he was! He suffers in lonliness without her; I just don't agree with the way you say he only "suffers because he beat her/nearly killed her"; thats not only wrong but never even stated anywhere and totally obscure from what actually was said and happened -- Cloud heart shattered because HE was separated from HER, because he lost her, because like he said she was gone.

Well it "hardly being development" is your opinion, because the creators themselves said; something was between them, hell, even Tifa saw that rigth away.

I am playing it right now and believe me; she's heavily there, like all the time. I mean Cloud went to SHinra risking his own life and freedom for her, when on a date in the park, learned about her history from Elmyra, dressed as a guy for her, left Midgar and ultimately cared about the Planet because her and many other things JUST for her.

 

[The Witch]

View attachment 1866

Not saying cloti's canon or anything but.. no chance? lets get serious people!!

Super bowl bet of 2010, you lost it and by binding law you are a Clourith.

For instance, many Cloti fans (including myself at one point) believe that Cloud and Tifa shared a sort of childhood romance together; I believe it's even referred to as a "dim crush." Although I wish that their feelings could have flourished since childhood, I'm a bit reluctant to even fathom the possibility now. Cloud was a shy, introverted little boy that was not able to hang out with Tifa because most of the time she was surrounded by the other village children. According to that fact, he was barely even able to spend time with her, let alone become true friends with her.

*I'm not really debating just talking with you *

I agree. It's a bit strange to see a C/T fan admit this. But I'm glad someone of the fandom sees how they weren't exactly friends then. Cloud had a dim crush on her, like you said, but they only spoke once before he left the town.

So, I guess my main reason is the lack of evidence in favor of Cloti, especially within the context of Advent Children because it's almost the perfect scenario for Cloud and Tifa to be together. They live together for goodness sake. And years and years later, he still hasn't made any moves? It's pretty disappointing, but that's the way the story is meant to be, I suppose.

I completely agree. and it's this reason that they have this "perfect" situation and yet they're not together, let alone saying the most important three letter words that Tifa herself asked Cloud about but was too afraid of his answer to fully ask him. I think if Cloud and Tifa loved each other that he would have at least been able to answer her when she asked him "Do you love me" during Case of Tifa. I've seen Clotis say that Cloud couldn't answer that because he was sick or afraid to lose her or whatever, but then--if that was so why aren't they together in Dirge of Cerberus? That's three years after VII, a year after AC--and yet they're not together yet?

It just doesn't seem like they're going to start up a relationship ever. :/

I always thought that AC painted Tifa and Cloud in an almost-relationship light.

That is not how I saw it. I saw Cloud and Tifa having to force themselves to talk to one another (like the novella said), I saw Cloud turning his back on her and shutting her and the rest out of his life, I saw Cloud not answering her phone calls for months on end (as proven in AC), I saw Cloud hiding and lying to Tifa (she didn't even know he had geostigma), and I saw Cloud wanting Aerith's forgiveness more than anything, I saw that it was Aerith that made Cloud's pain/guilt/and suffering in loneliness end. More importantly, I saw Cloud struggling with guilt over failing the woman he loved. I saw Cloud turning away from his family of friends (as Tifa calls the family in CoT) because how sad and alone he had become over Aerith being "taken from him" (as Tifa says in CoT).

I just don't understand how two people not talking, lying, leaving each other, running to the comfort of another woman, and giving up all hope and wanting to die, on top of Cloud not answering her calls or calling her back and not even telling her that he loves her after she asked is the making of a romantic couple? That screams unrequited love.

And I think with DoC showing them still not together proves they're not in love or a "budding" relationship. :/

Saying it's not likely though - how is it not likely? It certainly can't be less likely than Clerith because Aerith is dead and Cloud is alive, you need two living characters for a relationship.

Ever played 10? It's a tragic love story just like Cloud and Aerith. Like Cloud, two years after the death of the person Yuna loved (Tidus) she believed he was dead and she still continued to love him. Tidus returned to her, yes, but during the years she thought he was dead Yuna still loved him. So what's stopping Cloud? Like Tidus, Aerith came back but only spiritually. Like Sephiroth, Aerith can manifest and become solid--hence how she was able to speak to living children and help boost Cloud up towards Buhamut.

Death ends a life, not relationship.

Life is temporary and death is eternal... until you reach the promised land (heaven) and we ALL know that when Cloud reaches his promised land he wants to find and meet Aerith there. Can you believe that? Cloud has said to Tifa (the woman people expect me to believe he loves) that he (Cloud) wants to find and meet Aerith in his place of supreme happiness--that, in itself, proves that Cloud loves Aerith and will always love her.

As for CC, well Cloti would have to win that one since Cloud and Aerith never even met in it (as far as I know) and Aerith was in a relationship with Zack.

Well, yeah CC takes place before Cloud and Aerith meet--and it takes place when Cloud had a dim crush on her.

It's true that you need two (alive) people for a relationship, but you really only need one person to feel love for another person - dead or alive, lol. And if Cloud is truly in love with Aeris ("engraved in his heart" and whatnot), then it'll be pretty difficult for him to be involved in a relationship with someone else. Similar to how a widow/widower remains faithful to his/her true love and soul mate.

Yes, exactly!

Honestly, Aeris' death really complicates things because, as you had mentioned, it's difficult to tell whether or not Cloud's feelings are so strong because of his guilt or because he actually harbors such passionate feelings for her.

But they're one in the same.

Cloud feels so much guilt over her death because he loves her. Why else would the guilt be so immense? He watched Zack die and even felt guilt over his death but Nomura has said more than once that Cloud's guilt over Aerith is the thing really depressing him. His guilt for her death is so strong that he couldn't even visit the place she died at and yet Cloud easily visited Zack's grave-site--there's a contrast between how Cloud acts over Aerith and Zack's death.

Think about it.

People say that Aerith is on the same level as Zack, nothing more than a friend to Cloud. Both of these "friends" died and Cloud feels guilt over both deaths but Cloud only spirals into a deep depression, shuts himself out from his friends, and gives up living for ONE of them, and that's Aerith.

I can't help but ask, if Cloud only regards Aerith as a friend like how he does with Zack, then why does he act and treat her different? He has guilt for both and yet it's ONLY Aerith that Cloud wants forgiveness from, it's only Aerith that Cloud wants to reunite with in his promised land, it's only Aerith that Cloud has engraved in his heart, and it's only Aerith that Cloud has undying feelings for that are different from the platonic love of their friends.

I just think it's very clear why Cloud's guilt over her is so great... because he loves her. :C

I've always wondered, hypothetically, whether or not things would be different if Aeris had remained alive until the end. Would Cloud and Aeris live happily ever after in the end while Tifa just watches from the sidelines? Or would Cloud feel psychologically fulfilled (a.k.a. not guilt ridden), and therefore not obsessed with Aeris' death, such that he would be able to acknowledge and reciprocate Tifa's feelings more readily? Who knows.

Well, I think had Aerith lived Cloud and her would have been married. It's like the prediction said, they were perfect for on another and they even had a wedding in the near future. And even if you disregard Cait Sith's predictions and see them as wrong, the fact that the creator's put this in their relationship foreshadows what their relationship was--which is romantic. I doubt Tifa would have just watched from the sidelines--I think once she saw Cloud and Aerith either married or publically together that she would have inevitably let her crush die out and move on.

Cloud's guilt isn't why he can't reciprocate Tifa's feelings. Cloud loving and wanting another woman is why he'll never be able to reciprocate Tifa's feelings.

(just my thoughts)

I wish that his smile at the end of AC represented his willingness to move on from Aeris, 'cause if it did, then it would pave the way for Cloud and Tifa to build upon their partnership (which indeed they already have throughout AC) and eventually their romantic relationship.

I just doubt that'd get a romantic relationship, though. They're still not together even a year later after AC. :/

I agree, it's Cloud's feeling that are at the heart of everything and that's what gets most fans, because depending on how a player plays the game Clouds feelings are different.

I agree and that's why I base my conclusion about the LTD on non-optional, canon facts from CLOUD'S perspective. I already know both the girls love Cloud so what I focus on is Cloud's feelings. And all I've ever seen in the game and the ultimanias is that Cloud loves Aerith.

I mean... We hardly can take any factual evidence from the game as it is completely ambiguous depending on the player choices.

That's not as true. There's a lot of romantic stuff between Cloud and Aerith that isn't optional or player choice--

On advent children..Atleast the perception I got was that Cloud had warm and friendship feelings for Aerith but more importantly he was feeling guilty and he could not move forward with his life until he got rid of that guilt..

If he thought of her just as a friend then why doesn't he act the same about Zack's death? D:

The lonely place where he could be with his own guilty and distorted feelings.

It's the place he feels at peace at and also can hear her "softly whispering" to him.

He thought himself not worthy of being with Tifa or his friends.

He wanted to die because he was failing Denzel (the young boy he believes Aerith brought to him) and wanted to just end his loneliness and pain that he was suffering through because as Tifa said, Aerith was "taken from him".

As sheechiibii said in the end his smile might be the rid of his guilt, the end of the struggle and ultimately the realization that he can move on with his life.

Yes, exactly. But it's not how you think it is. Cloud's smile at the end is of happiness, happiness from finally realizing that Aerith is with him. Knowing Aerith will forever be with him is what makes him want to "move on". But it's not the type of moving on that you're thinking of, he's not moving on in the sense that he's going to "get with" Tifa. He's moving on from blaming himself and he's not wanting to die anymore, THAT'S how Cloud moved on with his life. He wasn't ending his love for Aerith or readying himself to settle for Tifa.

He just accepted that he wasn't to blame and that Aerith never blamed him and that allowed and gave Cloud strength to live--knowing that the woman he loved didn't blame him.

Cloud/Aerith - Ultimate friendship and guilt feelings that tormented Cloud

No, no, no, no, a thousand times, no. Just, no.

I've already said it twice in this post how Aerith isn't just a friend to Cloud simply by contrasting how Cloud treats/acts about Zack AND Aerith. So... yeah.

Cloud/Tifa - Blooming and potential feelings of love that probably after the AC events would turn into a full blown relationship

But they didn't, so you're wrong. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything. But when you make bold statements like that I'm gonna say something about it. Dirge of Cerberus takes place an entire year after advent children and guess what? Cloud and Tifa's "blooming" and "potential feelings" of "love" haven't lead to anything, let alone a relationship of love between them.

So conclusion: Cloud and Tifa are friends, like they've always been and Cloud continues to harbor undying feelings for Aerith and longs to be with her in the promised land.

Now that I've finally seen the quote it's nothing like what Clerith fans make it out to be. There's nothing there about Cloud's feelings being different or even stronger than the love each of her comrades felt, it certainly doesn't mean he was in love with her, merely that he'd never forget her and cared about her dearly.

Read the quote again.
Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and love for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

It begins by stating that Aerith's friends (Barret, Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, Tifa, Reeve, Red XIII) all have their own feelings and love for Aerith--obviously those feelings/love are platonic. And then Nomura says that Cloud harbors his OWN undying feeling for Aerith. Nomura made a difference between the platonic love of Aerith's friends and Cloud's undying feeling. What's oposite of platonic love/feelings?

Romantic love/feelings.

Now, let's add in the UNDYING word to this whole thing. It can be one of three feelings that can be undying for Cloud;

a.) Hatred
b.) Guilt
c.) Love

( It cannot be undying feelings of friendship because Nomura said Cloud's feelings are his own and are different from the platonic feelings/love of her friends. )

Now, it cannot and never will be undying feelings of hatred, we can all agree to that, I hope.(But please, if anyone wants to try and claim Cloud hates Aerith I will gladly prove them wrong.) Cloud's undying feelings cannot be of guilt because Nomura said that Cloud's guilt was lifted and healed after Advent Children, meaning his guilt wasn't undying. Now, the last term that could be undying is love.

Now, I believe it IS love and here's why.

Cloud has Aerith engraved in his heart (NOT LITERALLY), it's been stated that he'll never forget her, Cloud feels at peace with Aerith, and longs to be with her in HIS promised land. Those are just the three major things that can prove Cloud has an undying love for Aerith.

AND, if this quote isn't as romantic or important as you said it is, then why haven't we had something just like it or more significant said for Tifa? Cloud having an undying feeling for Aerith is far far far more than anything that's ever been said for Tifa and Cloud. So once again, if this wasn't romantic how come we haven't had something to top it for Cloud and Tifa?

***
​

I s h t a r pretty much answered the misconceptions about Cloud not being the real Cloud around Aerith. The same for Aerith loving the real Cloud for Cloud. Cloud believed he had a past that he really didn't have and that's ALL that was different about him. I've been through this before with a member on the forum called Dragon Mage so I guess I can resay what I said to her again.

The only thing false about Cloud was his PAST and what he thought was his occupational stance (being a first class soldier). His fake memories about what he did in the past has nothing to do with how he feels for someone in the present. Aerith--in the beginning of the game when they JUST met--admitted that she was first attracted to Cloud because he reminded her of Zack but she admits more than once that she now undoubtedly loves Cloud more than she ever loved Zack.

And for that matter, if you're going to use this argument against Cloud x Aerith then one can turn around and do the same for Cloti. Fans like to say that Tifa has loved Cloud since her childhood, but she didn't know him AT ALL then and by the time she meets Cloud in VII she is still in "love" with Cloud-- but, wait a minute. This means that Tifa fell in love with the fake Cloud, which you're saying is Zack's personality--so by your arugment that means she fell in love with Zack. D;

And to take this even further, Tifa falling in love with both Cloud's FAKE "personality" (that you're saying he had) AND the "real" Cloud only means her "love" for Cloud is shallow and immature, automatically lessening it then Aerith's love for Cloud.

See, this is why this argument is just silly. It hurts Cloti moreso than it helps it.

Cloud was himself and has always been himself, he just thought and believed he had a different past then he really did, that's all. His feelings and how people feel about him are genuine. :3


I'd speak more on the other subjects touched upon but once again, I s h t a r pretty much said what I would have.

 

[EnigmaPhenomenon]

Romantic love/feelings.

Now, let's add in the UNDYING word to this whole thing. It can be one of three feelings that can be undying for Cloud;

a.) Hatred
b.) Guilt
c.) Love

( It cannot be undying feelings of friendship because Nomura said Cloud's feelings are his own and are different from the platonic feelings/love of her friends. )

Now, it cannot and never will be undying feelings of hatred, we can all agree to that, I hope.(But please, if anyone wants to try and claim Cloud hates Aerith I will gladly prove them wrong.) Cloud's undying feelings cannot be of guilt because Nomura said that Cloud's guilt was lifted and healed after Advent Children, meaning his guilt wasn't undying. Now, the last term that could be undying is love.

Now, I believe it IS love and here's why.

Cloud has Aerith engraved in his heart (NOT LITERALLY), it's been stated that he'll never forget her, Cloud feels at peace with Aerith, and longs to be with her in HIS promised land. Those are just the three major things that can prove Cloud has an undying love for Aerith.

AND, if this quote isn't as romantic or important as you said it is, then why haven't we had something just like it or more significant said for Tifa? Cloud having an undying feeling for Aerith is far far far more than anything that's ever been said for Tifa and Cloud. So once again, if this wasn't romantic how come we haven't had something to top it for Cloud and Tifa?

Yes I've seen that quote about Aerith being engraved in Cloud's heart and being someone he'll never forget. And Nomura says each have there own love and undying feeling for Aerith. Notice love and undying feeling are seperated from each other. That's beside my point though, someone he'll never forget? Well hmm....she DIED right in front of him after his arch enemy tried to get him to kill her, she saved the world without asking anything in return, she sacrificed her life to save everyone else, and after she was already dead she still saved the world by using the lifestream to help holy.

Also his undying feeling, yes it's true his guilt gets healed by the end of ACC so that undying feeling isn't guilt. but...

Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him.

Here it says she lives on in the hearts of all her friends and in particular, in Cloud as a SYMBOL of his past failure. And in DoC it says that he'll never forget her, this is why. She's the symbol of his past failures. He's undying feeling for Aerith is that he'll never forget her, she'll always be someone important to him, as his symbol of failure. Being healed from his guilt doesn't mean he wants to repeat what happened with Aerith to anyone else. Being unable to save Marlene, Tifa, Denzel, or any of the other members of AVALANCHE, anyone he cares about, I mean...who would, you know? He doesn't want to make the same mistake twice. Failing to protect those he cares about.

 

[Starships]

Hello noobie deabater here so please forgive me for any errors.

@ Engima

Yes but have you seen these quotes ? I think it shows that Cloud does feel gulit towards Aerith's death. After all; who wouldn't ? Though also shows love for her as well.

Nomura: I believe, for those who formerly traveled with her as comrades and for the viewers, each carries their own feelings and loves for Aerith. In this story, Cloud also carries his own undying feeling for Aerith even to this very day. ~Nomura interview; Dengeki Playstation 2007

When talking about the "rare smile" which Aerith brings out in Cloud during the game, the FFVII Ultimania Omega says that "there seems to be something between them". ~Aerith's info page, FFVII Ultimania Omega

It mentions the images (of a face or appearance) that even now live in Cloud's heart, with images of the bottom half of Aerith's face, the flower garden and the Forgotten Capital. ~Interview with Nomura published at FFVIIAC Reunion


Also this quote :


Tifa put the paper away with the others as if nothing happened. But she was trembling severely. Transporting mail around the world meant Cloud was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn't protect Aerith. Cloud was on the verge of overcoming it but now, going back to the place where he and Aerith got separated meant that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart apart once again. ~Case of Tifa

Tifa calls it the place where Cloud and Aerith got separated. She's recognizing Aerith's death as a personal loss for Cloud. She's not saying that's when Aerith got separated from Avalanche, but from Cloud in particular.

So while Cloud does feel gulit and depression over Aerith's death, Square has also shown us that he also feels something deep towards her that isn't gulit but is instead love for her. While there is gulit; Cloud also loves her and misses not being with her like he was before. And while Avanachle has Aerith in their hearts, Cloud having Aerith in his heart is a whole different meaning.