I'd just be interested whether or not you believe in God, and why? I'm undecided 'cause I think there is little evidence for God beyond the bible, which is questionable. God can not be the ultimate creator. This flies in the face of creation itself. If God created everything, who created God?
Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter Darkblade
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I'm going to keep this short and sweet. My thinking will not let me agree with any religion that I know of at the moment. However, I do believe in a higher power. Whether it is a being or entity named God, I am still left to discover for myself what I truly believe in. I will not be brainwashed into believing what others believe. Following an instruction manual to live a life seems ridiculous and so does the idea that we're all brains in vats.
First of all, I'm wondering where the old thread about this has disappeared to. Probably in the archives when Tethar did his rampage a few months ago.
There is a theory, known as "The Uncaused Cause" by St Thomas Aquinas. This theory talked about how everything in the world is caused by something, for example:
A butterly flapping its wings > causes a small gust of wind > causes wind to strike a flower > causes pollen to be carried off > causes a plant to be pollinated > causes a new plant to grow > causes a new medicene > causes (or rather, prevents cause) from disease > causes an increase in population > causes increased levels of pollution ......
The list is endless. Tracing these things back to the beginning was his way of trying to determine where everything started. He called the beginning of these 'causes' "The Uncaused Cause", more commonly known as God. God was not 'caused' by anything: he simply was. It was God who then caused X, which caused Y, which caused Z, so on and so forth.
However, just LOOKING at his theory, there is an immediate contradiction: he states that everything must be caused, except God. Biased, much? In my view, his theory basically just shows how much he believes in God, but in a very circularly-round-about-messy way. However, I digress.
I do not believe in God; I am a strong Atheist. I don't allow any type of religion to influence me, my beliefs, my actions or my thoughts and opinions. I never have, nor will, believe that there is, or ever will be, a God.
There is a theory, known as "The Uncaused Cause" by St Thomas Aquinas. This theory talked about how everything in the world is caused by something, for example:
A butterly flapping its wings > causes a small gust of wind > causes wind to strike a flower > causes pollen to be carried off > causes a plant to be pollinated > causes a new plant to grow > causes a new medicene > causes (or rather, prevents cause) from disease > causes an increase in population > causes increased levels of pollution ......
The list is endless. Tracing these things back to the beginning was his way of trying to determine where everything started. He called the beginning of these 'causes' "The Uncaused Cause", more commonly known as God. God was not 'caused' by anything: he simply was. It was God who then caused X, which caused Y, which caused Z, so on and so forth.
However, just LOOKING at his theory, there is an immediate contradiction: he states that everything must be caused, except God. Biased, much? In my view, his theory basically just shows how much he believes in God, but in a very circularly-round-about-messy way. However, I digress.
I do not believe in God; I am a strong Atheist. I don't allow any type of religion to influence me, my beliefs, my actions or my thoughts and opinions. I never have, nor will, believe that there is, or ever will be, a God.
Taylor Swift
A.K.A----> LuLu
I do for a couple reasons. 1) I highly doubt it that we envolved from primates because there are still primates on this earth that are still primates and not humans 2) We have documents from Rome that says he was real and that he did all those miracles. 3) And i feel like he is always with me.... I know it sound weird but i feel that way when im hurt or sad.... You might say Im weird but wat-ever
And That THAT
That theory dose not explain who the world was created or how people got on this earth or animals???
And That THAT
That theory dose not explain who the world was created or how people got on this earth or animals???
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*sigh* oh, nevermind
For a second Riku I thought you were going to try to use that to prove God. I'm glad you didn't. There are many people that should read some philosophy and read some good old fashioned debate about the nature of things. People that believe in religion should open themselves up to other religions and see the pros, cons, and flaws of each. It's upsetting that people will believe one person or thing without evaluating the arguments of their contradictor. Read a lot, take in the info, then find yourself.
Religion shouldn't be an instruction manual. It should be a way of life that you are happy with and feel that is just.
For a second Riku I thought you were going to try to use that to prove God. I'm glad you didn't. There are many people that should read some philosophy and read some good old fashioned debate about the nature of things. People that believe in religion should open themselves up to other religions and see the pros, cons, and flaws of each. It's upsetting that people will believe one person or thing without evaluating the arguments of their contradictor. Read a lot, take in the info, then find yourself.
Religion shouldn't be an instruction manual. It should be a way of life that you are happy with and feel that is just.
Eidolon
Guru
I would love to believe that there is a God. However there just doesn't seem to be any logical reason to believe there is. Every single argument for the existence of God is flawed.
The Thomas Aquinas argument as mentioned above (technically called the Cosmological Argument) cannot be taken into consideration at all realistically, since it is bending the rules for God. If you can say God was always there then you can also say the Universe was always there.
The teleological argument is based on design. It is saying that because things are so complex they must have been designed by someone/something - God. Firstly just because it is complicated does not mean it was designed. Many things are just following the rules of nature (a good example I found from some website is the design of Diamonds they are like that because of atomic structure, not because someone designed them to be like that). Furthermore it is not proof of God's existence in an way.
Some other arguments are that how is it so coincidental that life has come about on our planet. The answer to that is yes it is a coincidence. However it may be that there are hundreds or thousands of other civilizations on planets elsewhere. Just because we are here doesn't make us special. Also, if it so happens that we are the only form of life, it is possible that had the universe been formed in some other way there could be an even more advanced form of life. Why should we believe that we are the greatest of God's achievements, if there is indeed a God.
There are many more arguments, but all of them can be countered. No matter how much I want to believe in God there is just nothing to make me think in the slightest that there is. Therefore it would be silly of me to believe in God.
The Thomas Aquinas argument as mentioned above (technically called the Cosmological Argument) cannot be taken into consideration at all realistically, since it is bending the rules for God. If you can say God was always there then you can also say the Universe was always there.
The teleological argument is based on design. It is saying that because things are so complex they must have been designed by someone/something - God. Firstly just because it is complicated does not mean it was designed. Many things are just following the rules of nature (a good example I found from some website is the design of Diamonds they are like that because of atomic structure, not because someone designed them to be like that). Furthermore it is not proof of God's existence in an way.
Some other arguments are that how is it so coincidental that life has come about on our planet. The answer to that is yes it is a coincidence. However it may be that there are hundreds or thousands of other civilizations on planets elsewhere. Just because we are here doesn't make us special. Also, if it so happens that we are the only form of life, it is possible that had the universe been formed in some other way there could be an even more advanced form of life. Why should we believe that we are the greatest of God's achievements, if there is indeed a God.
There are many more arguments, but all of them can be countered. No matter how much I want to believe in God there is just nothing to make me think in the slightest that there is. Therefore it would be silly of me to believe in God.
1) Darwin never said we evolved from primates and its wrong that so many people say thats what he said. What he said was that through natural selection and time and evolution, things changed and the things that worked are still working....ok, that is a really really bad explanation. But evolution is proven I believe to be true.
2) Not going to argue with that cause I have no knowledge of that evidence. I have learned something new today.
3) That is good. I'm happy that you believe that. You must have true faith in what you believe in.
Also, that theory is in support of God. It says that the farthest back you can go is God so he must be the creator or something.
I barely remember at the moment the philosophy I've read and the classes I've taken and the discussions I have had with my more educated peers in the subject. By the way, they're not all atheists or whatever. One was a hard determinist, the other is zen, and the other has no idea either even though he went to catholic school.
I hope this is not a 2x post and someone posted before I did again
Eidolon
Guru
Actually I disagree. I think the fact that religion does guide you is good for people. It allows them to be part of a community, and it can open their minds to something perhaps they have not thought of before. I have always found that I need a bit of a push to discover something, and the Church or equivalent in other religions do a good job of encouraging and planting (harsh word but you know what I mean) ideas in people's minds.
Actually, I think it can be more harmful. I said up above that my friend went to Catholic School cause his parents made him. He hated it with a passion and found the whole system a joke. Yet, he was stuck with that community. My hard-determinist (which is typically a very material science belief) friend has a family of christians. He had to read the bible and go to church. If anything, religion wedged them as a family. And I've never really been pushed to believe in one, yet I still look. I didn't need to be placed into a religion.
But I think I am getting off-topic.
I'm going to ask a question and I want a simple answer. No maybes or depends. Just yes or no.
Do you believe someone that says they can hear God talking to them?
Eidolon
Guru
To be honest I don't think that is the fault of the Catholic Church. No offence or anything but I blame that entirely on his parents. If you think that the Catholic Church had not given his parents "guidelines" on religion, and instead they had completely independently come to the conclusion that the catholicism was right, wouldn't they still have sent him to a catholic church?
The Catholic church didn't make your friend go to a Catholic school, the judgement of his parents did. And how their attitudes were affected by the church is a different matter, since that is the way they have chosen to live their life.
We are all affected by those around us, and in that way religion is no different to law or morality or just common sense.
I absolutely believe that they think they can hear God. However since I do not believe in God I don't actually believe God is communicating with them.
We didn't evolve FROM the primates. Both the primates and ourselves are descendants from one common ancestor.
"We have documents from Rome that says he was real"
So if I went to Jerusalem, printed off some sheets of paper that said "GOD IS NOT REAL" in a fancy font, could it be used in an argument?
Reading between the lines, it says that God caused everything. I disagree with the theory because, as stated, it is flawed - the theory bends the rules in favour of the belief of God.
Naw, just an informed answer to Darkblade's question :]
Taylor Swift
A.K.A----> LuLu
How do u know that we didnt envolve from primates were is the proof. Dont u think they checked to make sure the documets were from the real time
There is another theory, which suggests that people who claim to have had a 'religious experience' are, in fact, insane; that is to say that these people have some form of a mental problem. I wouldn't quite agree with the wording of the theory, but I certainly consider the concept to be entirely possible. Afterall, 'hearing voices' isn't good for your sanity - religious or not.
Taylor Swift
A.K.A----> LuLu
I dont take that offence because im not catholic. I dont belive in some thing that the catholic churches belive in
Oh, I see. So writing a consistent date on a piece of paper proves that God exists. Your point is so much more structured, now. [/sarcasm]
You want to see proof of evolution? Research Darwin's theory of Evolution. It's more reliable than these "Roman" documents, anyway.
Taylor Swift
A.K.A----> LuLu
I read darwin theory and i belive one on is theory and that the theory of natual selection. I dont belive in the other ones
Thats what i was talking. srry for not putting that in the post. But if jesus did these miracles and said that he was the son of god. Then god most be real in some form or another
Thats what i was talking. srry for not putting that in the post. But if jesus did these miracles and said that he was the son of god. Then god most be real in some form or another
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the Theory of Natural Selection is the whole bit that proves that evolution is real. I don't understand why you're still trying to argue about the primate thing. We're from the same ancestors. Hence, we're in the Homo category. It never said we evolved from apes. It says that we all may have originated and evolved from the same beings.
I'm still jumbled up. I cant even remember what the scientific name of primates are.
I'm still jumbled up. I cant even remember what the scientific name of primates are.
Taylor Swift
A.K.A----> LuLu
so if we envoled from an "Ancestor" were did they envolve from and were did that thing envolve from. It all leads back to The creation of earth and the creation of animal by god