Does God Hate Bisexuals and Homosexuals?

[Rockman X]

Hi Vegeta, I bolded the part that I'm a bit confused about. You see in my bible(I own it for the sake of owning one), it says spanish-english "The men of Sodom knocked on Lots door, and asked if he had any male residents staying with him, Lot replied "yes", and the men asked if the residents could spend some time with them, The men of sodom wanted to have sex with them."

Theres no mention of any angels, only that the City of Sodom and Gommorah(spelled wrong prolly) were to be destroyed because of homosexuality, Lots wife was also killed, because she looked back after God said not to.

So you claim you own alot of bibles, could you look into that? I only own one, and thats what it says, which is what leads to these arguments, since their all translated differently. Either though your point is valid.

- Kuja

Ah, sorry. I should have probably clarified that I was using the NIV version, which says in Genesis 19:1 "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground." And in verses 4-5 it says "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

If you go by the King James version (probably the other most widely used version in English) verse 1 again makes mention of the angels, and verses 4 and 5 say the same thing, albeit in fancier speech: "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them." Knowing them is of course referring to having sex, it was the nice way of putting it.

I find it kind of odd that your Bible makes no mention of the angels, are you sure you just missed it? It actually only refers to them as angels in verses 1 and 15, all other verses just refer to them as men. If you'd like to sift through other versions for yourself, this site is pretty handy, it has an immense amount of different translations on it, including several Spanish ones.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Ah, sorry. I should have probably clarified that I was using the NIV version, which says in Genesis 19:1 "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground." And in verses 4-5 it says "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

If you go by the King James version (probably the other most widely used version in English) verse 1 again makes mention of the angels, and verses 4 and 5 say the same thing, albeit in fancier speech: "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them." Knowing them is of course referring to having sex, it was the nice way of putting it.

I find it kind of odd that your Bible makes no mention of the angels, are you sure you just missed it? It actually only refers to them as angels in verses 1 and 15, all other verses just refer to them as men. If you'd like to sift through other versions for yourself, this site is pretty handy, it has an immense amount of different translations on it, including several Spanish ones.

Hey vegeta, or should I say Meta Knight =P,

I looked over two bibles, one spanish, and one a "kiddie" bible, and It seems I feel kind of dumb. Both speak of two men who were angels in disguise, I don't remember reading that part so I can only assume I missed the part >.>. However what i said above happened just without the visitors part .

Thanks for the link, it also said the same thing give or take.

- Kuja

 

[Auronlu]

δ Kuja Ω -- saying that you have to obey ALL the Old Testament also means you have to obey the laws about owning slaves, about killing your children and wife, about not eating pork, about keeping kosher, about wearing certain types of fabric, about using different plates for dishes using milk products and those with meat... there's tons and TONS of rules in the Mosaic Code that only the most orthodox Jews still follow.

All Christians are selectively chucking out most of the rules of the Old Testament; I don't know ANY Christian that follows them or thinks they're necessary... I'm sure you don't keep all the laws of the Mosaic code, do you?

My family doesn't, and we're a mix of Jews and Methodists.

In fact, that's what Jesus was saying -- those nitpicky rules didn't make you holy; what was important could be boiled down to loving your neighbor and treating people with respect, even people like prostitutes.

He did advocate upholding the Ten Commandments, however; they're the basics of the basics. But they don't have anything to say about homosexuality or bisexuality.

Regarding the story about Sodom and Gomorrah, it's condemning the people of the city for being promiscuous... and mainly for being wicked enough to demand the rape of guests. In the ancient world, the sanctity of guests was paramount. The Odyssey is one of many stories where abuse of hospitality, of guests, was a terrible crime. There were no hotels and precious little law enforcement, so travel and commerce relied entirely on the rule that you received visitors with hospitality. It's not surprising that the Bible has a story about the violation of the guest/host custom -- most of the cultures of the world have stories about that, and in all those stories, the ogre/bad hosts get what's coming to them for violating that cardinal rule of decency. The homosexuality aspect of the story is really rather irrelevant; the point was that guests were being threatened.

 

[Rockman X]

No problem, we all forget stuff

I did some more reading of Leviticus, and my lord, I found some insanely sexist shit (even moreso than the passage I quoted earlier about womens' time of the month). I know we're not talking about sexism in this topic, just prejudice against sexual orientation, but most homophobes gain their views on the matter from the Bible...and the Bible is just so full of appalling views that it just loses all credibility in my eyes.

(1)The LORD said to Moses,
(2) "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.
(3) On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.
(4) Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over.
(5) If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.

This is just incredible, really. A women is unclean either way if she gives birth, but if she has a son she's only unclean for one week and has to wait a month to be purified. If she has a girl, she's unclean for two weeks and has to wait two months to be purified. Think about what that must have felt like to be a pregnant mother. You're already feeling like shit from crazy hormones, then you're told you're unclean. And if you have a girl, you're TWICE as unclean as you would be if you'd had a boy.

*sighs*

I really don't understand it. The Old Testament is a perfect record of the values and morals of a barbaric, 3000+ year old society of desert nomads. The New Testament is an incredible contradiction of the Old, it's a mish-mash of old and new beliefs, false hopes and prejudice hidden under the guise of "caring for one's soul." I don't see why anyone could glean ANY of their values from the Bible. Obviously it has some good values in it, but it's all general stuff taught in cultures world-wide: respect your elders, be faithful to your spouse, be honest, don't murder, etc. Basic instinctual things. Of course the sixth commandment (don't murder) sort of falls by the wayside most of the time when Jehova commands the Jews to go raid a town because they believe in Baal. Jews really love to make themselves seem like they've been victimized all through history, especially because of the holocaust, but the Old Testament shows them to be just as violent as any other tribe in the region. The book of Judges is a fabulous example of this. In the words of George Carlin, it's a struggle between different desert tribes shouting "my god has a bigger dick than your god."

(1) These are the nations the LORD left to test all those Israelites who had not experienced any of the wars in Canaan
(2) (he did this only to teach warfare to the descendants of the Israelites who had not had previous battle experience):
(3) the five rulers of the Philistines, all the Canaanites, the Sidonians, and the Hivites living in the Lebanon mountains from Mount Baal Hermon to Lebo Hamath.
(4) They were left to test the Israelites to see whether they would obey the LORD's commands, which he had given their forefathers through Moses.

It just confuses me why people would take their views on homosexuality from a violent tribe of people commanded by their "god" to fight others, to kill homosexuals, that women were unclean just from being pregnant, etc. I don't want to offend anyone by this, but in my opinion it would take a fool to believe this and extract any aspect of their values from this horrible book.

*EDITING because Auronlu ninja'd me*

You're right, Christians pick and choose. That's what makes believing in the Bible even more silly. The entire religion is a hodgepodge of values that do and don't apply to modern day life.

As for Sodom and Gomorrah, you are correct in saying hospitality and sanctity of guests was paramount in those days. My problem with the story is that there's a 99.9% chance of it being a lie. Do you honestly think an entire city's male population is going to come out of their homes hellbent on raping two strangers? It's a ridiculous prospect and it portrays gays like they're all insatiable sexual predators. The only way that situation is possible at all is if the entire populous had severe mental issues, and that in itself is extremely improbable.

 

[the real CloudStrife]

ok this wont end the debate BUT

god hates not the homos or the Bis

he just wants the world to repopulate and thus homosexuals cannot repopulate the bible tried to warn people off of being gay.,

 

[Rockman X]

he just wants the world to repopulate and thus homosexuals cannot repopulate the bible tried to warn people off of being gay.,

A valid argument, and goes along nicely with what God said to Noah in Genesis 9:7, "as for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it." It's quite possible god himself (assuming that the Jewish/Christian god actually exists) doesn't hate bisexuals and homosexuals, and it was insecure people like Moses who spread the notion that they were detestable.

Looking at this from a current environmental standpoint, however, makes me think god would probably be in favor of MORE buttsecks and less multiplying. As a species we're multiplying too much and rapidly depleting resources we depend on. We're eventually just going to kill ourselves off if we keep it up, so a gradual decline in childbirth due to conscious decisions would be much preferable to humankind suffering through what happens when a population becomes too dense.

 

[the real CloudStrife]

true but buttsex is a detestable way to think of it its anal sex lol

and straight people can have anal

i personally think its detestable ( no im not a homophobe im just a normal straight bloke but i think of it as putting my penis in sh*t so im gonna stick with the normal sex lol)

anyways back onto the topic

i agree noah is a homophobe lols ( i know that probz isnt what you mean)

but anyways i think god ( if he exists im not sure im not too religious myself) just wanted more people because as we die and "return to the plannet" in a way god learns all that we learned during our life and thus he is changeing as we change and he is develping as a god and a day is a second a year an hour ect.

 

[Rockman X]

true but buttsex is a detestable way to think of it its anal sex lol

and straight people can have anal

I actually don't understand the purpose of the term "anal sex." It's tossed around so commonly, either in reference to gay sex or in porn. But why? People don't typically say "zomg dude, i had teh best VAGINAL secks with my gf last night." It's like the term is in place just to keep the taboo branded onto that type of sex. And the term oral sex is just dumb, because there's no penetration going on.

i personally think its detestable ( no im not a homophobe im just a normal straight bloke but i think of it as putting my penis in sh*t so im gonna stick with the normal sex lol)

Then make sure the person goes to the bathroom first and takes a shower I'm not sure if this is entirely appropriate to say or not (forgive me if it isn't), but go watch an anal porn clip sometime. Unless of course your morals conflict with that sort of thing, in which case just take my word for it. Nine times out of ten, when the guy pulls out, his weewee isn't covered in chocolate.

but anyways i think god ( if he exists im not sure im not too religious myself) just wanted more people because as we die and "return to the plannet" in a way god learns all that we learned during our life and thus he is changeing as we change and he is develping as a god and a day is a second a year an hour ect.

So your view more or less is that God is more of an ambiguous collection of all the life in the planet, past and present? It's a nice idea, a god (or force, if you will) of that nature definitely would not begrudge people simply because they happened to like the same sex. I think there's some sort of god out there, more of an actual entity than a force, but I don't think it's the Jewish god and I don't think it would hate people just because of their sexual orientation.

 

[the real CloudStrife]

i wish i could say that as scientifically as that lol

anyways

i dont think that god hates them as such i just stick with what i said before

 

[Auronlu]

Even if the mission to repopulate the world has more than succeeded, and in fact the world is now being destroyed by overpopulation?

If you look at non-human species, there's always a certain amount of homosexual behavior, which gives the lie to the old "it's not natural!" argument. It looks like it's yet another mechanism to make sure that a population doesn't outstrip its resources.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

δ Kuja Ω -- saying that you have to obey ALL the Old Testament also means you have to obey the laws about owning slaves, about killing your children and wife, about not eating pork, about keeping kosher, about wearing certain types of fabric, about using different plates for dishes using milk products and those with meat... there's tons and TONS of rules in the Mosaic Code that only the most orthodox Jews still follow.

All Christians are selectively chucking out most of the rules of the Old Testament; I don't know ANY Christian that follows them or thinks they're necessary... I'm sure you don't keep all the laws of the Mosaic code, do you?

My family doesn't, and we're a mix of Jews and Methodists.

In fact, that's what Jesus was saying -- those nitpicky rules didn't make you holy; what was important could be boiled down to loving your neighbor and treating people with respect, even people like prostitutes.

He did advocate upholding the Ten Commandments, however; they're the basics of the basics. But they don't have anything to say about homosexuality or bisexuality.

Regarding the story about Sodom and Gomorrah, it's condemning the people of the city for being promiscuous... and mainly for being wicked enough to demand the rape of guests. In the ancient world, the sanctity of guests was paramount. The Odyssey is one of many stories where abuse of hospitality, of guests, was a terrible crime. There were no hotels and precious little law enforcement, so travel and commerce relied entirely on the rule that you received visitors with hospitality. It's not surprising that the Bible has a story about the violation of the guest/host custom -- most of the cultures of the world have stories about that, and in all those stories, the ogre/bad hosts get what's coming to them for violating that cardinal rule of decency. The homosexuality aspect of the story is really rather irrelevant; the point was that guests were being threatened.

First of all, you should read what I say before going on a ridicolous pointless rant, I'm somewhat annoyed you posted this.

I was asking Vegeta, aka Meta Knight about that particular scripture in the Old Testament, no where did I say anytihng about following it word for word.

Honestly I question why you posted this ridicolous, and pointless bit of information. I am not christian, nor I condemn Homosexuality.

On a side note I want to capitalize on what Karl said.

The question do we hate homosexuals is an unanswerable one.

The bible wasn't written by god, it is Gods word interpretted by man, as such its not gods word, its mans word. As such we can't truly just say "zomg it says it right here god hates homos!".

Now the people who say that god can't possibly hate homos because to them it doesn't make sense are also wrong. We don't even know if God is real, as he is more of a figure of faith. As such we don't know. Some people also criticize mormons, or other faiths for condemning homosexuality, as such you guys are no different from them. Your basically saying its bad to be part of that faith.

With that said, lol about the anal sex comment. Before it was linked with homosexuality or with porn, it was a form of contraception. It is still practiced that way in many parts of Europe(or so I hear ).

Again I have no idea why you posted all that factual yet useless bit of information. Judas please explain your treachary. I am a proud philophical nontheist, and you sir are a clueless skeptic who had no right saying this, as it didn't apply to me.

You have some explaining to do, If this is a touchy subject for you, and your passionate debating about it, guess what dude? Thats fine, but read what other people have to say before speaking out of your ass. If your ready to say "sorry I didn't read what you said" I accept =)

- Kuja

 

[the real CloudStrife]

lol i laugh at that ( in a non offensive way) thank you for making my day

now i just want to point out that generally nowdays homosexuality is accepted by religious biblical peoples ( i cant be botherd findin the correct terms) and i know christian catholic whatever people who are freinds with a homosexual that i absolutley hate

now im not a homophobe my father ha some freinds who are homos that i get along with they aint freaky people

if your wandering why i hate this homo

1) he stalked me and my freind
2) he googled me and my freind
3) threatened 2 rape me
4 ) threatened to rape some of my freinds
5) hes a freak altogeather.

now if anyone disagrees then please i welcome a chalange

 

[Auronlu]

Kuja, you called my post a "ridiculous and pointless rant."

Perhaps it was ridiculous, and perhaps it was largely pointless -- I'm sure many of my students have thought as much of my lectures! But I assure you, while the internet sometimes obscures tone, and while I tend to be as longwinded as Cicero, it wasn't a rant.

I admit, I am mildly taken aback by your calling me "treacherous" and "Judas." That is very strong language, accusing someone of being a backstabbing, greedy coward who would have friends killed for twenty bucks. Or worse. Judas is one of the most appalling figures of mythology, and I am startled that my offering a few thoughts about the thread topic incensed you so much that you called me that, and several other things besides.

Well, well, the internet is, again, a poor medium of communication, so I'll assume misunderstanding. However, you'll have to pardon me if I don't apologize, since I don't think it's really that treacherous, offensive, and heinous for me to enter into a discussion and offer a few crumbs of thought.

I was responding generally to the discussion that had gone before, and specifically to your post here:

No offense dude, but Vegeta is right. The bible is the damn bible. What difference does it make when the laws were made, your basically saying that the Ten Commandments, which God gave to Moses in Exodus isn't valid because it was made before Jesus's time.

I was pointing out that while "the Bible is the Bible," as you say (you'll have to pardon me if I don't "damn" it), that doesn't mean all parts of it are regarded and weighted equally. Maybe that's exactly what you meant, but by saying it that way, it sounded as if you were bringing up the common literalist argument that one can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow or to ditch.

Other parts of my post were addressed more to the discussion at large, and I'm sorry if my addressing you over that first point led you to think that my scholarly blatherings were a rant aimed in your direction. No. I was commenting on the discussion at large, and (I am afraid) too lazy to go back through and quote ALL the posts that had stirred me to respond.

I was trying to make two points, which your post in particular but also several others had triggered as I was skimming through the thread:

1. Many Christians who say that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible point to the proscriptions against it in the Mosaic Code chapters of the OT, where Jewish Law is laid out. I was pointing out that this argument is inconsistent, since many other parts of the same code are rejected by Christians.

That doesn't tell us what God thinks of all this (if there is one), but it does address what many Christians think.

2. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion of the Sodom and Gomorrah episode, which is a Biblical fable that many Christians interpret as proof that God hates homosexuals (which is the topic of this thread). This episode was a topic of discussion in a Biblical Studies seminar I attended last year, and that seminar had given me a fresh perspective on which to view that fable and the Old Testament in general. The social context of the Bible tends to be ignored in favor of moral and religious interpretation. But viewed from its social and historical context, that fable's thrust is not so much that God hates homosexuals as it is proof that God hates people who violate the guest-host relationship.

That argument may strike you as ridiculous, but I don't see that it's altogether pointless, since it addresses the point of the thread.

Beh. Now I have to get back to work. If I sound a little stuffy right now, I do apologize -- I've just spent most of the day in the throes of dissertation research, and even when I try to take a break I sound like the articles I've been reading.

 

[FF7Guru]

I'm agnostic, and even I can see that everyone is only talking about the Christian and Jewish God. Technically, they are the Muslim GODS and the Hindu GODS, so there is no such thing as 1 god.

Therefore, there is no way of knowing which God we want to know about. And it doesn't matter if God hates homo- and bi-sexuals, because we're going to hell anyway, on account of the fact that more than 1 religion says "If you aren't part of our religion, you will go to hell", and we can't be part of more than 1 at a time.

Prepare for hell/the netherworld/the fiery pit etc.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Kuja, you called my post a "ridiculous and pointless rant."

At the time I read your post I was kind of angry, I apologize for my tone, I am not that kind of person.

Perhaps it was ridiculous, and perhaps it was largely pointless -- I'm sure many of my students have thought as much of my lectures! But I assure you, while the internet sometimes obscures tone, and while I tend to be as longwinded as Cicero, it wasn't a rant.I admit, I am mildly taken aback by your calling me "treacherous" and "Judas." That is very strong language, accusing someone of being a backstabbing, greedy coward who would have friends killed for twenty bucks. Or worse. Judas is one of the most appalling figures of mythology, and I am startled that my offering a few thoughts about the thread topic incensed you so much that you called me that, and several other things besides.

I apologize if you perceived my comment that way, I was kidding around, and I wasn't trying to insult you.

Well, well, the internet is, again, a poor medium of communication, so I'll assume misunderstanding. However, you'll have to pardon me if I don't apologize, since I don't think it's really that treacherous, offensive, and heinous for me to enter into a discussion and offer a few crumbs of thought.

Your correct, again I am sorry.

I was responding generally to the discussion that had gone before, and specifically to your post here: I was pointing out that while "the Bible is the Bible," as you say (you'll have to pardon me if I don't "damn" it), that doesn't mean all parts of it are regarded and weighted equally. Maybe that's exactly what you meant, but by saying it that way, it sounded as if you were bringing up the common literalist argument that one can't pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow or to ditch. [/quote

I was merely claiming the Ten Commandments are a good key to good morals, nothing more nothing less.

Other parts of my post were addressed more to the discussion at large, and I'm sorry if my addressing you over that first point led you to think that my scholarly blatherings were a rant aimed in your direction. No. I was commenting on the discussion at large, and (I am afraid) too lazy to go back through and quote ALL the posts that had stirred me to respond.

Its all good sir, I apologize for thinking your post was directly aimed at me.

I was trying to make two points, which your post in particular but also several others had triggered as I was skimming through the thread:

1. Many Christians who say that homosexuality is condemned in the Bible point to the proscriptions against it in the Mosaic Code chapters of the OT, where Jewish Law is laid out. I was pointing out that this argument is inconsistent, since many other parts of the same code are rejected by Christians.

That doesn't tell us what God thinks of all this (if there is one), but it does address what many Christians think.

2. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion of the Sodom and Gomorrah episode, which is a Biblical fable that many Christians interpret as proof that God hates homosexuals (which is the topic of this thread). This episode was a topic of discussion in a Biblical Studies seminar I attended last year, and that seminar had given me a fresh perspective on which to view that fable and the Old Testament in general. The social context of the Bible tends to be ignored in favor of moral and religious interpretation. But viewed from its social and historical context, that fable's thrust is not so much that God hates homosexuals as it is proof that God hates people who violate the guest-host relationship.

That argument may strike you as ridiculous, but I don't see that it's altogether pointless, since it addresses the point of the thread.



Beh. Now I have to get back to work. If I sound a little stuffy right now, I do apologize -- I've just spent most of the day in the throes of dissertation research, and even when I try to take a break I sound like the articles I've been reading.

Again I apologize if I came off as rude, I just read what you said and my angry switch turned on, if you read some of my other posts I'm in fact sweet as sugar . You sound, and I believe you are an intellectual person, I'm sorry if you feel I posted that stuff without a given reason, because quite frankly anger doesn't justify anything.

My dearest apologies my friend, I hope this settled any issues, or doubt.

- Kuja

 

[Auronlu]

Gah, I didn't stop by here for a few days because I don't like getting into political/religious debates online (or anywhere) and figured there were better ways to spend my down time than arguing.

But thank you very much for your apologies! I'm very glad that your feathers were not permanently ruffled! Alas, net communications are in their infancy, and it's not the first time I've seen both sides misconstrue words as angry/frustrated that weren't.

*exhales*

Back to the thread topic, the "God hates homosexuals" argument -- or, more immediately, "the Bible condemns homosexuality" is a subject I worry about, with so many friends in the gay community (and me, though I'm not so worried about that) being the target and topic of this fiery debate. Children, families, loved ones, property and health coverage are regulated by society's opinion of us, so even if we don't believe God hates us (and/or we're not Christian), we still have to pay attention to those who DO believe it.

I've got a lot of queer friends who have absolutely no patience with those who condemn gays on religious grounds. "What right do they have to interfere with our personal lives?" asks my ex. Personally, though, I can understand why many conservative Christians are staunchly against homosexuality and say God is too, even if I don't agree. Even more, I can understand many people's fear of behavior they find creepy/disgusting/alien. Sex is a deep, intensely personal, and irrational instinct, and it brings up a lot of charged emotions, feelings, fears and passions. Any debate touching on it is bound to stir up strong emotions, fears, passions too! Combine that with the religious aspect -- religion being another non-rational part of our lives, based on faith rather than logic -- and you're bound to get fierce arguments in which the two sides simply canNOT see things from the other side's perspective.

And yeah, there's the unfortunate part that one form of gay male sex is using the poop chute, which is yet another charged taboo subject. It's not just gays that do that, though! I don't have much to say on that subject since it's not my thing, but... whatever. As long as it's not hurting anyone and is between consenting adults, it's not my business. And I just can't imagine a God that obsesses over human plumbing the way we do.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Gah, I didn't stop by here for a few days because I don't like getting into political/religious debates online (or anywhere) and figured there were better ways to spend my down time than arguing.

But thank you very much for your apologies! I'm very glad that your feathers were not permanently ruffled! Alas, net communications are in their infancy, and it's not the first time I've seen both sides misconstrue words as angry/frustrated that weren't.

*exhales*

Back to the thread topic, the "God hates homosexuals" argument -- or, more immediately, "the Bible condemns homosexuality" is a subject I worry about, with so many friends in the gay community (and me, though I'm not so worried about that) being the target and topic of this fiery debate. Children, families, loved ones, property and health coverage are regulated by society's opinion of us, so even if we don't believe God hates us (and/or we're not Christian), we still have to pay attention to those who DO believe it.

I've got a lot of queer friends who have absolutely no patience with those who condemn gays on religious grounds. "What right do they have to interfere with our personal lives?" asks my ex. Personally, though, I can understand why many conservative Christians are staunchly against homosexuality and say God is too, even if I don't agree. Even more, I can understand many people's fear of behavior they find creepy/disgusting/alien. Sex is a deep, intensely personal, and irrational instinct, and it brings up a lot of charged emotions, feelings, fears and passions. Any debate touching on it is bound to stir up strong emotions, fears, passions too! Combine that with the religious aspect -- religion being another non-rational part of our lives, based on faith rather than logic -- and you're bound to get fierce arguments in which the two sides simply canNOT see things from the other side's perspective.

And yeah, there's the unfortunate part that one form of gay male sex is using the poop chute, which is yet another charged taboo subject. It's not just gays that do that, though! I don't have much to say on that subject since it's not my thing, but... whatever. As long as it's not hurting anyone and is between consenting adults, it's not my business. And I just can't imagine a God that obsesses over human plumbing the way we do.

Hi Auron,

I'm glad we could settle this missunderstanding we had =).

Now, I just have a few question for you, answer them all, in any order, I honestly could care less lol.

1. While I agree with you on the bible, how we truly know God does/doesn't hate homos?

2. Are the people who claim Mormons(for example) are bad people for condemning homosexuality hypocrites?

3. If god really does hate homosexuals where do you think they go when they die?

I have a lesbian female cousin, and I have no problem with her lifestyle, homosexuals can be homosexual for all I care. But thats a different matter, were argueing here If God does, or doesn't hate Homos, in my opinion nobody knows.

As I previously mentioned, the bible isn't gods word since he didn't write it. So..we can't truly know if thats what he truly thinks. If you refer to Exodus where it says "thou shall not suffer a witch" passage was actually changed in the 16th century from "thou shall not suffer a poisoner" aka somebody who poisons. It seems things have gotten changed along the way because somebody wanted to control/shun others.

Now I think people who criticize or condemn Mormons(again for example), or other homosexuality condemning faiths are no different from them. Their basically saying its not ok to be a <insert faith here>, when we meet our maker we'll find out =).

I look forward to your response, I apologize again for my rudeness, I gave you a rep point to counter the bad one I previously gave you.

Oh and I hear in Europe Anal Sex is quote common ^^.


- Kuja

 

[Roy Mustang]

Does God hate Bi's and Homo's...

Well, IMO if God is truly the person his thought out to be, he should accept everyone not mattering on there sexual orientation.

I'm not religious in any way, but if i did believe in God, i would think...If God did hate Bi's and Homo's then where would they go if they died? Would they go straight to hell because they love the same sex?

 

[TheRealTrxd]

The idea that god hates homosexuals is one of the main things that made me realise christianity was not the right path. I still belive in god but i dont belive in any religion because it is impossible to know that much about him/her.

 

[Mitsuki]

First of all, you should read what I say before going on a ridicolous pointless rant, I'm somewhat annoyed you posted this.

Honestly I question why you posted this ridicolous, and pointless bit of information. I am not christian, nor I condemn Homosexuality.

Again I have no idea why you posted all that factual yet useless bit of information. Judas please explain your treachary. I am a proud philophical nontheist, and you sir are a clueless skeptic who had no right saying this, as it didn't apply to me.

You have some explaining to do, If this is a touchy subject for you, and your passionate debating about it, guess what dude? Thats fine, but read what other people have to say before speaking out of your ass. If your ready to say "sorry I didn't read what you said" I accept =)

- Kuja

I do NOT want to see anything like that again. I realize that matters have been settled now between you and Auronlu, but that post there was way out of line. There was absolutely no reason for you to say that as there was nothing wrong with Auronlu's post. No demeaning name callings and please watch your tone with members.

In the future, please make sure to read the rules here: http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/religious-debate/religious-debate-guidelines-1304.html