FF began to suck balls? yes no?

Well, it's been a bumpy ride for me. I love Final Fantasy, but it's not the only gaming Franchise in existence.

Final Fantasy has felt steady to me for a while, and I feel that a large majority of their released Final Fantasy titles have felt like they're above average and playable. Frankly, I'm a lot more disappointed with some of their other releases.
 
I also started with VII and then played VIII, IX. VI, and X.

I agree with you that X was definitely not right for me. Something was wrong. I haven't played XII yet, but I'll probably play XIII first because I already have a ton of games to play until its release.
 
I think the problem being is the length of time it's being taken to release Final Fantasy titles, take the fanboys out of Final Fantasy VII and it's a very good game as are Final Fantasy VIII and IX. Then you start looking at the release of major titles after that, Final Fantasy X was released in what, 2001/2002? Then Final Fantasy X-2 was released in 2003/2004 so that in itself is a good 2 or 3 years for a game that is generally looked down upon and to a certain degree is only a spin-off anyway. So if you take FFX-2 out of the equation, Final Fantasy XII was released in 2006/2007 making it around 5/6 years since the release of FFX. That in itself is a massive amount of time between two major titles and the expectation was huge but it was a love-hate title, especially since it was the last PS2 release of FFXII.

Then Final Fantasy XIII is being released in 2010 making that another 3/4 years from the last major release. To me, the problem isn't that the franchise is going downhill, it's due to the time taken to release games which makes expectations soar, especially in terms of FFXII. Had that been released a year or two after FFX then there wouldn't have been half as much criticism towards it.

Yes, you can look at the amount of remakes they've made; Final Fantasy I, II, III and IV but they're still games from a long time ago. People would much rather see new, original games than remakes.
 
i kindda agree... through the years they have been getting alittle worst.. but ffXIV has me alittle excited... i actually cant wait to play it with my friends
 
I don't think that Final Fantasy is getting worse. Every game is different. The only way in which they're really related is by recurring characters and cliches. Times change. You can't expect everything to stay simple with the way technology is changing.

Example. Chrono Cross used to be one of my favorite games. Just like every other RPG I played, I spent a lot of time with CC staying up all night and having a blast and all that goodness. I actually bought a new copy last year from the import store and I couldn't bear with it for more than 30 minutes. The battle system was horrendously boring. The gameplay was tedious. I was surprised because my adoration for the game had completely changed.
Like broccoli. I used to hate broccoli. Now I eat it with carrots and bell peppers. O_O

The only way I'll sit down and play one of the SNES or PS1 generation games is if I have the ISO on my PSP. Or if I have a really long, dreadfully boring vacation.

FFXII wasn't a bad game either, it was just different.
 
Howl said:
I don't think that Final Fantasy is getting worse. Every game is different. The only way in which they're really related is by recurring characters and cliches. Times change. You can't expect everything to stay simple with the way technology is changing.

Example. Chrono Cross used to be one of my favorite games. Just like every other RPG I played, I spent a lot of time with CC staying up all night and having a blast and all that goodness. I actually bought a new copy last year from the import store and I couldn't bear with it for more than 30 minutes. The battle system was horrendously boring. The gameplay was tedious. I was surprised because my adoration for the game had completely changed.
Like broccoli. I used to hate broccoli. Now I eat it with carrots and bell peppers. O_O

The only way I'll sit down and play one of the SNES or PS1 generation games is if I have the ISO on my PSP. Or if I have a really long, dreadfully boring vacation.

FFXII wasn't a bad game either, it was just different.
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Just because things are different doesn't mean that something can't be worse them something else. The fact they are different games, which is ridiculously obvious, doesn't mean one can not be better or worse. In fact if they weren't different would be the only way they could not be better or worse then each other because then they would be the same.

I also have to disagree about the PS1 games and SNES games because so far the PS2 games and after can't even hold a candle to those games but this threads not about that. I havent played XII but the PS1 FF's and Chrono Cross are leaps and bounds better then FFX, and no doubt make up a majority of Squaresoft/Square-Enix's best work. There really aren't RPG's on Xbox or PS3 that even compare to the PS1 group at least not more then maybe a handful. At least as far as RPG's are concerned, but I'd agree almost every other genre has improved quite a bit on the more recent consoles. I do not think that RPG's have really improved at all.

All your comparison proved is that tastes change. Not that things get better or worse with time. I don't really see any relevance to the topic at hand. Of course tastes change over time, but they don't always. I used to hate FPS but now I love them. That doesn't mean they haven't great improved over time just because my taste changed.

Though I'd like to change my answer from my post on the first page. I can not agree they have gotten worse because there were only two main games in the FF series on the PS2 and none on the PS3 yet. I didn't like X but a lot of people did. So in my opinion we don't really have enough information to judge if they have gotten better or worse, because there will always be certain games in the series that some certain people don't like.
 
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I dont believe the series went downhill from IX. If anything, it went uphill. X was an ungodly game in terms of graphics and gameplay and 12 rocked. Regarding the first poster, you must be an old fashioned gamer, no offense. You must like the well developed stories that the earlier instalments provided. Thats well and good, but gamers today (well me anyway) like the games that can balance graphics with a new innovative battle system and gaming environment. Hopefully, the impending 13 can change your thoughts on the progression of the series.
 
Last Tsurugi said:
I dont believe the series went downhill from IX. If anything, it went uphill. X was an ungodly game in terms of graphics and gameplay and 12 rocked. Regarding the first poster, you must be an old fashioned gamer, no offense. You must like the well developed stories that the earlier instalments provided. Thats well and good, but gamers today (well me anyway) like the games that can balance graphics with a new innovative battle system and gaming environment. Hopefully, the impending 13 can change your thoughts on the progression of the series.
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X had better graphics I will give you that, and there were some battle system changes, but the fact you didn't need to master the battle system because all of the battles in the game were so easy, and leveling up was pretty simple made it irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the battle systems are new if you don't even need to be fully aware of what they are capable of.

Also we are talking about RPG's. It's role playing, and that means that story development is the most important part of the game. For example a game like Kingdom Hearts has plenty of fans and the only thing you do in that game is mash the X button over and over. Having a great battle system and great graphics doesn't even tackle 1/2 of what it takes to be a great RPG.

Graphics are always going to get better with each new installment, but that really has no effect on whether the game is good or not. Graphics are really the least important basis on which a game can be judged, because better graphics doesn't make a game more fun.
 
Well,I wouldn't say so.You can't expect it to always stay the same.
They're looking to attract new fans so significant changes must be done and thus it should "evolve".
I believe FF started changing after X and there's no going back.Be it FFXIII,versus or even XIV.They might be good but they'll never feel like the old FF to me,the one that every 3 minutes you'd have to fight the monsters that appear in an old-styled way.The one that had people who looked like kiddies and the one that made you feel all those great feelings.
I don't mean to sound rude,but most gamers don't care about those anymores.They want extreme gameplay,nice graphics and whatever has to do with killings.So SE has to deal with that,they can't always make games for the FF fans,otherwise they'll close down.
 
Truthfully, FFXII wasn't my favorite, but I don't think SE is going to be helping themselves by sticking with the same old stuff on every Final Fantasy. X was a great hit, even though they switched to the sphere grid instead of leveling up. Many people liked that change, while others didn't. Like XII, who had a more political plot instead of centering on romance, something the older FFs are known for. Many people hated that, others were glad for it. So, basically, Final Fantasy doesn't suck, it's just changing (a pro & con).
 
Final Fantasy VIII.... might have to be my favorite. THIS is the kind of game all FFs should be like from now on. The music, the story, the cinematic-ness of the game... It's just everything I could wish for. X wasn't THAT BAD... but I did feel as if something WAS missing... I prefer the PS1 Final Fantasy games over all the others. I love the pre-rendered backgrounds and no voice acting. Am I the only one?
 
well I think FFX was the last decent final fantasy title, a friend of mine bought FFXII and he told me it was horrible so I never played it but FFXIII looks amazing
 
Nokoi said:
Final Fantasy VIII.... might have to be my favorite. THIS is the kind of game all FFs should be like from now on. The music, the story, the cinematic-ness of the game... It's just everything I could wish for. X wasn't THAT BAD... but I did feel as if something WAS missing... I prefer the PS1 Final Fantasy games over all the others. I love the pre-rendered backgrounds and no voice acting. Am I the only one?
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I like those FFs as well.It was better with no voices,maybe because it sounded more like a narration and usually you get drawn in it.Or it could be that you imagine their voices differently or how they talk.I believe this could be it.
I really liked it when they didn't have voices.So much better.
 
No way. I started when I was a kid on FFI, and then later came back to the series during seven, but I have played almost all the FF titles now. I think they are equally good for the most part. X-2 was different, but that was expected to me. People tend to look down on the spin-off games as being crappy, but Crisis Core is awesome, and Revenant Wings was good. Given, X-2 and Dirge of Cerberus weren't great, but there have been worse games. and XIII is set up to be revolutionary, along with XIV being an MMO that I plan to be able to play(Unlike XI). I really hope that XIII does all they talked about.
 
Last Tsurugi said:
Regarding the first poster, you must be an old fashioned gamer, no offense. You must like the well developed stories that the earlier instalments provided.
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Wow. I fail to see how a preference for substance over "flare" constitutes you as an old-school gamer. Story and characters are arguably at the very foundation of RPGs and FFs.

Thats well and good, but gamers today (well me anyway) like the games that can balance graphics with a new innovative battle system and gaming environment.
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But that's just it, many here seem to have argued that the newer FFs don't do these things.

The graphics have been great, yes, but the balance is awful at times. With the release of X, Square got excited with all the aesthetics they could begin to offer with their games and decided to rape us with cinema. The gameplay and other aspects seemed backburner to this new-found obsession with in-game movies, which is bound to bother RPgamers (not to say that you're not one if you fancy this type of thing).

Innovative battle systems are great - if done well. X's turn/count system felt so eased, and I never really bought the whole "it emphasizes strategy more" excuse. And then you have the D20/Gambit system, which isn't new by the way, KOTR did it (and they got it from a Star Wars RPG that based it on D&D), except KOTR did it a lot better in that it was a lot faster and coordinated functions better.

Finally, I think gaming environments are great (especially in RPGs), which is why the newer ones seem to disappoint in this area compared to the past. Prior FFs felt like fully explorable universes. It was as though this entire cast of people really existed in this fully dimensional and fully functional world. Come X, and you can't even go on a World Map anymore? Everything became linear, and places couldn't even be revisted until later in the game. XII had maps, but was still an A-to-B style. The beauty of RPG is that you get to make decisions, but this format has largely restricted that and the environments altogether.

The above is just my opinion, of course, and it would seem particular others seem to believe similarly. There's nothing wrong with adapting to innovative technology, but that shouldn't be at the expense of substance, nor an incentive to abuse the latest whatever. Too many games do that now, and I'm afraid of FFs heading towards that.
 
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While I do feel that FFIX was one of the most "fantasy-like" feeling games in the series, I don't agree that it "sucked balls" after that.

I think we are so stuck on how great games felt the first time we played through them (our first FF games played), and we try to set the bar so high that every game we play in the FF series has to be our new favorite or "best". It's not gonna happen. I know it may seem a bit biased, but FFIX and FFX were my first 2 FF games I played and completed, and they are my 2 favorites. I think they are the best.

So of course as time goes on we're gonna feel that, "meh, these games aren't as good as the older one", but it's because I feel we are so stuck on our "firsts" that it shades our image of new games being released.

I think the newer games coming out are great. Sure, not my favorites or what I consider "best", but they adapt to fit what gamers haven't experienced yet. Squenix needs to keep throwing us new material instead of the same old gameplay and characteristic.
 
Well, FFXII is one game. You can't say "OMG, THIS SERIES SUCKS NOW!" after one game. Unless you count X-2, but I just want to forget that game.
 
Um, no. Not really. Mean Final Fantasy XII was just a experiment really. Square/Enix need to try new things, and see what works so they can make a prefect game. Final Fantasy X is just a matter of opinion. But Square was new to the PlayStation 2 and to voice acting, they have never had done voice acting before so you can't be brilliant at something straight away. Even high money- making compaines need practice..

Think the only regret have with SE is FF X- 2 and the Final Fantasy VII spin offs. Dislike FFX2 because, dislike how the game treats woman. It's almost making a mockery of the gender. We don't all go around making up words like "Superiffic " and wearing almost bare- all nothing, and hehe </giggle/> she is so- cool- like- totally !!!:srsly:

But love what SE has done with the Final Fantasy 3 & 4 remakes, and Dissidia is loved by many Final Fantasy fans, and Final Fantasy 13 looks like SE is trying to make the fans pleased. They are basing FF13 off VII one of the most loved in the series and bringing in back in the old format but with some new changes. SE are now trying to please both generations of Final Fantasy fans, the older and the newer. FF13 is solid gold proof that they are trying really hard to fix up what was lost on the fans with FF12. If FF13 was looking exactly just like FF12, would be worried and would say that yeah the series is starting to fail, but Square Enix are just upgrading and improving.
( Or trying too, anyways. )

Last Tsurugi - It doesn't matter if you are a old or younger Final Fantasy fan Dear.
Storyline and heavy emotional backstories are important in J RPGS. Plus, you can like any Final Fantasy game despite your age, you don't have to be 36 and have FF1 as your Favorite, or be 14 and have Final Fantasy XIII as your Favorite.I'm 21, and is assumed to like FFVII the best, and have the last enjoyed Final Fantasy be X.[Blah, Blah- etc, and be a HUGE FAN SUPPORTER OF SEPHIRIOTH, AUGHGH !:surprised:] But I dislike FFVII, and enjoy the original SNES Final Fantasy IV, which has terrible graphics and midi music for sound, but like FF IV the best because it has amazing character backstories and a amazing storyline.

Storylines are important, and they are the key to the Final Fantasy series. Would you play Crisis Core, if not for the Nibelheim tragedy ?
Would you play Final Fantasy VIII if Squall didn't have a change of heart and chase for Rinoa in the depths of Space ? Would you play Final Fantasy X if Tidus didn't find out what was happening to Yuna, and become a serious Guardian for her ?
Would you watch Advent Children if Cloud didn't struggle through his past mistakes and depression to battle the Remnants ??

No, and the game would be a total/ pointless bore, and would just be good for Eye candy and that only lasts for a few minutes, and you could look at the back cover for that. ^^'';
 
Nope I really liked Final Fantasy XII just cause the main villian was actually not some super monster out to kill errrbody, He wanted political control, not worlds end so I thought it was different in that part, the battle system wasn't my favourite but it was neat to try and wasn't horrible. My first FF game was 8 which is my favourite, followed by X and XII. I don't feel that the FF series has gone downhill because each FF is different, so we can't judge future projects as going downhill just yet.
 
HighwindPilot said:
The graphics have been great, yes, but the balance is awful at times. With the release of X, Square got excited with all the aesthetics they could begin to offer with their games and decided to rape us with cinema. The gameplay and other aspects seemed backburner to this new-found obsession with in-game movies, which is bound to bother RPgamers (not to say that you're not one if you fancy this type of thing).
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This is certainly a valid point, but my impression of X was that it was heavy on both cutscenes and gameplay. The battle system was as extensive and enjoyable as any other FF, if not more so, for many people: there was the ability to customise weapons and armour using items, for example, and the sphere grid certainly made the player more involved in the levelling up process. Being able to switch other characters into battle with such ease also made the battles a lot more interesting, I think. Many of the boss battles were actually quite challenging and there were plenty of optional ones that presented even more challenge if you wanted.

HighwindPilot said:
Finally, I think gaming environments are great (especially in RPGs), which is why the newer ones seem to disappoint in this area compared to the past. Prior FFs felt like fully explorable universes. It was as though this entire cast of people really existed in this fully dimensional and fully functional world. Come X, and you can't even go on a World Map anymore? Everything became linear, and places couldn't even be revisted until later in the game. XII had maps, but was still an A-to-B style. The beauty of RPG is that you get to make decisions, but this format has largely restricted that and the environments altogether.
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Roughly speaking, every FF has two sections: the first is an extremely linear story-driven section and the second is where you get autonomy over travelling the world, doing side-quests and mini-games, finding treasure, training the party etc. FFX and FFXII are no exceptions. In FFX, however, the linear section happens to last longer than in other installments. The nonlinear section is, as ever, entirely optional and you can spend as much time as you like on it; personally I devoured about 150 hours with FFX, and I really enjoyed it.

I would suggest that the decision not to have a world map was probably for technical/aesthetic reasons because navigating a world map is inherently not-in-proportion (e.g. the character/airship is bigger than the whole town; but if it were in proportion then it would take ages to get anywhere). Given the more advanced graphics (practically necessitated by the hardware), the developers probably thought it was self-evident that they could not sacrifice realism for the sake of the world map. Or: programming a version of the world map that matches the visual style of FFX or XII would probably have been a mammoth task that they didn't feel was worth it.

I do lament the lack of world map too; I'm just trying to analyse why it's the case.
 
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