FF began to suck balls? yes no?

Having started with the SNES game, I'm going to have to say that every game after VI depends on the game. Unlike everyone else here, I mostly disliked VII. Also unlike everyone else here, I loves me some XI and XII. Really, just paying attention to the story is bad for almost any game in any Genre, as if you're just going to tell a story as opposed to making a fun game AND telling a story you might as well just forgo making it a game at all and just make an anime, and that really wouldn't be a good thing.
 
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^So, you didn't like VII's gameplay? Really? Because it was essentially VI's. Both games used the active time battle system, so I don't really see how you could complain about one and not the other? I loved VI, I mean, I think it's my favorite Final Fantasy, but the differences between it and 7 are minimal at best. Both tell engrossing stories, use the ATB system, and sport a cast of lovable characters. VI used a chapter-like system to tell its story, and VII's was more linear. I just don't see how people can hate VII if they like VI, but that's your opinion.

I don't think the series has ever sucked balls. Just because none of the games following your favorite live up to it in your eyes doesn't mean they suck balls. Try and be a little more open to change and stop comparing games to your favorite. Nothing can live up to nostalgia. Nothing.
 
I'll admit that I exaggerated my negative opinion in my post. FFVII on its own isn't REALLY a bad game, it's just that it really isn't as good, IMHO, as its reputation would suggest and the undeserved hype around it makes me feel some resentment toward it I really shouldn't. Sometimes I post without fully thinking, sorry.

It's not the ATB system, it's the Materia system. It simply didn't offer as many options as, say, the Job System or FFVI's cast's individual abilities. One of the reasons I liked FFVI is stuff like Sabin's Blitzes or Setzer's slots, and that a lot of that shunted off into limit breaks or not used at all in VII was a turn-off for me.
And I'm just going to flat out disagree with you about the story and characters, as I wasn't really compelled by any of them, except maybe Tifa and Cid.
 
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It did offer as much customization as the job system. You could essentially make your character a fire mage that still kicks ass in battle, or a summoner who is also a healer. And VI did have individual abilities, but I'd argue that Tifa's limit break is Setzer's slots. And each character had limit breaks specific to them. VIII did it even better, but that's beside the point. I can't argue with you about the story and characters as that is your opinion and can't really be argued. However, I would like to point out which Final Fantasy is most popular. If someone said "name a place in Final Fantasy" 9 times out of 10 it would be Midgar. "Name a character in Final Fantasy" 9 times out of 10 it would be Cloud. "Name a villain" Sephiroth. While this doesn't mean that the story is good in your eyes and it probably won't change your opinion, it does mean that many people felt differently. I'm not one trying to be a fanboy, I'm just pointing out that people love VII so much that it has actually become too popular. But I digress, since it probably won't affect your opinion of VII. Like I said, VI is my favorite too.
 
I dont think the numbered FF's(XI dont exist though) have gone down hill have gone down hill at all, though i think they have lost a touch of the magic that VII to IX had, they dont seem to blow me away now as much as the PS1 era did. hopfully XIII brings back the standard VII-IX did

still one of the best series to grace a console
 
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I think FF11 and F12 were pretty bad (I don't like MMOs, so maybe I shouldn't comment on that one), and a lot of non-numbered FFs have been really bad, but 13 will hopefully turn things around. The characters look interesting anyway. :highfive:
 
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X-2 was the beginning of the downfall methinks. Dirge, while enjoyable, was also pants. XII had so much potential which it didn't live upto. XIII been getting blasted in reviews.

Seems all hope lays upon Versus. XIV may be interesting though, just gotta wait to see what the subscription charge is going to be, if there is one.
 
I liked FFX, but I will agree that it did feel like something was missing. As a video game, it was awesome, as a Final Fantasy game... I dunno.

One thing that I noticed that it did not have was the main FF theme which was kind of a disappointment for me, but something that won't get in the way of my overall enjoyment of the game.

I think one thing that the villians seemed to be lacking. I think Yu Yevon needed to be fleshed out more instead of just killing him at the end. He never really came off as that big of a threat. Yeah I know Sin destroyed many towns and killed many people... but I dunno. I think the game would have been better if it was decided that Yu Yevon was evil more in the middle of the game and more stuff in the plot could have happened. (Such as only the playable characters feeling this way and not so much the rest of Spira which could add more conflict. You could have revisited places and the game would not have felt like one big long walk.) I did like that
In the end he was just a bug, which was disappointing to the characters because that is what they had been worshipping
I also never understood Seymore's motivation. Was he supposed to be some Bizzar anti hero? And the voice they game him never made him seem all that sinister to me.

Also the main character. I would have liked it better if Tidus weren't so annoying. His whining got on my nerves. They could have made him a well meaning character who could kick serious ass.

And finally, i really did not like the whole dream thing. I just couldn't wrap my head around it. And it made the whole romance between Tidus and Yuna just seem very strange in the end.
I'd rather that Tidus had just been real
And a world map and controllable air ship would have been fun. Spira never felt real because I could never properly explore it without walking on a long path.

X2 was just ridiculous. Yuna and Rikku were beyond annoying. I get that it was supposed to be a care free world but you can be care free with out acting like a retard.

XII was just boring. There was no character development and the plot was just boring. I didn't care for anyone or what happened to anyone. And worst of all, through most of the game it felt like absolutely nothing happened. The game became so much of a chore to play that I gave up. I didn't care for the gambits that much or the licenes board.
 
Newer Final Fantasy games=awful. Am I the only one who feels this way?

I guess I don't really belong here, because I'm not really a gamer anymore. I just don't like newer games, RPGs or otherwise. They are way way too complicated. But because I grew up on the original FFs which were fantastic games I feel cheated somehow that it has turned into the commercialized, dumbed-down franchise it has.

The series began to go downhill with VII, which was horribly overrated. The game is just too easy! VIII and IX were okay, (I thought IX was great actually), X was so-so, X-2 pure crap-- a disgrace to the genre. VI wasn't that great either. I played through it without using Espers and it was no more difficult that way!

IV for DS took perhaps the best RPG ever made and butchered it by adding useless abilities that do nothing to make the game better, and only serve to make it more confusing, and easier. RPGs originally challenged the mind. Now they may be insanely complex, but when it comes down to it, they're too easy-- it's just a bunch of button mashing.

I gave up on the series after X-2, never played XI or XII. But I was watching a YouTube video of FFXII's gameplay and couldn't understand the battle system at all. It's so insanely fast-paced, you can't even tell what's going on, who's doing damage to who, just a bunch of lines and numbers and whatnot, pure overload on the screen. Do you get used to this or something? What am I missing?

Someone back me up here... and of course I'm ready to be flamed :-D there are obviously a lot of diehard FF fans here. But can you honestly tell me a game with hundreds of useless abilities that are basically all the same is better than an 8-bit gem that actually takes some sort of skill?

I love the Dragon Quest series though, it stays true to its old-school roots and I can't wait for DQ6 to finally come out in the US.
 
I agree that the games made since Square Enix came about have been worse, but I actually loved FF7-10 much more than the classics. I liked the classics, but they were womewhat lacking in story, which is necessary for a modern RPG.

And in FF12, the battle system is pretty much exactly the same as in every other FF. Choose a command and who to use it on. I guess you have to get used to having the numbers springing up everywhere...it's only confusing if a load of enemies join in the battle at one time.

An 8-bit gem that takes skill? You mean, patience to sit around for hours and hours, until you are a high enough level to beat a boss? That's the same in FF12, so you may like that. Not many skills are useless in any FF, except maybe FF8, but even then the magic can be used for junctioning, so they still have a use. Sorry, which exact skills are we talking about?
 
In terms of difficulty and length, I agree with you completely: newer FF games are just not up to scratch. However, the same can be said of practically every game that comes out these days - too easy, too short, too much attention on pretty graphics and not enough on the gameplay. The "quality vs quantity" argument really does not apply when you consider that older games had both of those attributes.

However, in terms of storyline, I think Final Fantasy games have gotten better overall. Comparing something like FFXII with FFIV, XII just feels a lot more...epic. Graphics and cutscenes have been good for one thing only, and that is enhancing the storyline. It definetely has a lot more impact and drama when its in a cutscene and not a few sprites occasionally ramming into one another...I'm not going near voice acting, because I'll start ranting.

The RPG genre seems to be leaning further and further towards being an interactive movie rather than a game. I suppose whether this is a good thing or not depends on how much you value the storyline of an RPG over the gameplay. I'd say it was an even trade-off if it wasn't for the difficulty and length issues. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but...eh, there we are. I grew up in a different age.

On a side note, I think we've got a similar topic going here already...
 
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I won't say the newer FF games are awful, because frankly, they're not. They're still great games- perhaps not the best- but still games worthy of my enjoyment. I just feel that ever since FFVII brought the advent of lush, 3D graphics, Square has taken the route of style-over-substance. I've noticed that with FFXIII's story. It has failed to really captivate me based on the spoilers I have seen. I just have a feeling that SE have put the most effort on presentation rather than the content itself.

This is the reason why I loved FFVI (tut tut, FFVI wasn't that great, really? :P). It may not have been the most challenging game out there, but nevertheless I love its story and its diverse range of characters. Without the fancy graphics, you can see that Squaresoft worked hard to compensate for this by focusing their all on the game's content. I actually enjoyed FFVI's story moreso than many of the newer ones, bar FFX.

I want SE to consider this: less emphasis on presentation and fancy graphics. I would like the idea of HD graphics (don't get me wrong), but I'd rather SE focus more on substance over style.

I for one, love the useless abilities you mention. I don't think it brings anything that confusing once you get into the game and get used to it. So far, I'm really interested in how FFXIII works. It looks really convoluted on video, but it's not really a fair way to judge just by watching it. You have to actually play it to really see for yourself.
 
I have to say I'm pretty keen on what I've seen and played bar 11 and 12. I can't say 12 impressed me at all and truly seemed like a step down.

I think it's also easy to forget sometimes that each game is essentially meant to be a completely different 'game', if that makes any sense. We see it as a series but some of them are too diverse to truly even be compared with each other. I like what I've seen of the originals, loved IX and VII, and also think X has a lot of good stuff to offer. XIII looks like a solid style that doesn't look like it can go much further- I see no reason why we shouldn't see something a bit more classical come into its own later. Especially if it works.

The only thing I'm against now is less emphasis on stories that are able to drag in all kinds of people. The original games all seemed to have worlds we could fit ourselves into, even as newbies. Before I played FF7 I thought I'd have to be really into it to get what the heck was going on before even playing it, and then it turned out to be very simple. FFXII or what I've read of XIII on the other hand...it's like they're trying to be too deep without actually having any substance to them. I personally think it all kicked off with KH2. KH was fine and did its job of having a plain new cast to adapt to the meat of the game well, but when it let its own convoluted and frankly endless and pretentious continuity take over I became completely disinterested.
 
I agree with the OP that Final Fantasy games have been getting progressively worse; in most areas, but most noticeably in characterization and plot, and this became especially apparent with the uninspiring cast of FFXII. Even though I don't dislike the characters in FFXII, none of them are as memorable as the characters in the older games (i.e. Cait Sith, Cloud, Squall, Barret, Auron, etc), and the antagonists in recent FF games haven't really invoked any strong emotions in me, not like Sephiroth or Kefka. Seymour came across as a bit camp and that guy in FFXII (with the unpronounceable name) was a personality-devoid meathead. Another gripe I have is that the games have been getting easier too, which is a widespread problem, and probably has something to do with games becoming more mainstream and developers being too afraid to make their games too hard in case they put gamers off buying future instalments. FFXII was woefully easy. On a side note, I just finished reading an import review for FFXIII in UK PLAY and they only awarded it 79%. Tragic.
 
One thing that I noticed that it did not have was the main FF theme which was kind of a disappointment for me, but something that won't get in the way of my overall enjoyment of the game.
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It was present in the game, at the very very beginning where Zanarkand (gameplay wise not FMV) is shown...its really easy to miss hearing it because it's not done like other FF titles, the theme is really remixed and after listening to FF X OST I was able to confirm it.

Anyway, I don't feel like FF has gone down hill, for the simple reason that every last one of them (expect FF 11) has a somewhat okay...decent...great story. I will agree with someone's post about FF X's ending and story, once it was reveal that Titus was a dream of the faith used to rid Sin...I was very irked but this type of story telling. FF 12 IMHO is NOT boring, although I'm still playing it and having finish it...I bet it will surpass FF X and FF VIII in terms of story (not gameplay) maybe it's because I enjoyed FF tactics alot, but I like the judges and even Vayne because he is soo greedy for power and even slain his family for the throne.

Overall, my only beef with our most recent installment is the sci-fi tech appeal that SE has thrown together, I'm not asking for more kingdoms and saving the princess BS but c'mon...just by looking at the summons and their usage has anger me a little bit, I just hope that SE has still remain some of the traditional elements that has made this series great.
 
Rydia said:
One thing that I noticed that it did not have was the main FF theme which was kind of a disappointment for me, but something that won't get in the way of my overall enjoyment of the game.
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The prologue theme was there (remixed) but not the main theme. But then I don't remember hearing the main theme in VII either.

DMark said:
IV for DS took perhaps the best RPG ever made and butchered it by adding useless abilities that do nothing to make the game better, and only serve to make it more confusing, and easier. RPGs originally challenged the mind. Now they may be insanely complex, but when it comes down to it, they're too easy-- it's just a bunch of button mashing.
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I would also be interested to know what 'useless abilities' you mean here - do you mean the Augments?

I agree that VII was incredibly easy, but I found XII to be one of the most difficult in the series, if not the most difficult of the ones I've played. Of course, experiences differ. I found the original Final Fantasy pretty hard in the beginning but once I reached a certain point in the game it got a lot easier.
But I was watching a YouTube video of FFXII's gameplay and couldn't understand the battle system at all. It's so insanely fast-paced, you can't even tell what's going on, who's doing damage to who, just a bunch of lines and numbers and whatnot, pure overload on the screen. Do you get used to this or something? What am I missing?
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I had the same feeling when I watched videos of the gameplay, but when I played the actual game it was fine and I really enjoyed the battle system. I'm pretty sure you can adjust the battle speed just like you can with the other FFs.

But can you honestly tell me a game with hundreds of useless abilities that are basically all the same is better than an 8-bit gem that actually takes some sort of skill?
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Admittedly some of the FFs have lots of abilities that you generally never use, but they still have the same ones that the original FF had so I don't see how it can have a negative effect. I think FFXII does return to the series' roots in some respects because it is quite difficult, very strategic, it has a lot of dark and mystical dungeons from which to retrieve arcane artefacts and a fairly token plot (although a lot deeper than FFI or III).

Martel said:
In terms of difficulty and length, I agree with you completely: newer FF games are just not up to scratch. However, the same can be said of practically every game that comes out these days - too easy, too short, too much attention on pretty graphics and not enough on the gameplay. The "quality vs quantity" argument really does not apply when you consider that older games had both of those attributes.
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I can appreciate that difficulty level has gone down (with the possible exception of XII) but overall game length has undoubtedly gone up. I took about 25 hours to complete the original FF and about 100 to complete XII (then I spent another 100 hours on XII doing the rest of the optional stuff). But I don't think a difficult game is necessarily a better game - it depends.

I've seen arguments that the FF series has 'irreversibly gone downhill' after FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFIX and FFX: there's considerable disagreement about when this 'terminal decline' actually started. I think it is far better, however, to treat each game on its own. Personally I enjoyed every FF I've played - but they're all very different from each other.
 
Kitab said:
I think it is far better, however, to treat each game on its own. Personally I enjoyed every FF I've played - but they're all very different from each other.
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YES. someone else shares my point of view! let's dance and sing :gasp:

in just about everything there are factions of people, those who want change and those who dislike change, or those who want change but want it to change their way, or...the list goes on. in the end you either like it or don't.

put bluntly...no one has a right to say anything 'sucks', per se. if you do, you need 1) a basis for comparison (i use this phrase an awful lot nowadays) and 2) a bunch of people who agree with you, so that you can look like you know what you're talking about. cheers :wacky:
 
Anything pass IX (If I push it, X) sucks horrible. Although XII (It was good, I just don't see it as a true FF game) was good, I knew everything else after would suck horribly.

I told all that would listen that XIII would be so freakin' bad, and now I mostly see people complaining about it and I want to say "told ya so". But I won't...I guess.

Now, SE is concentrating on graphics and Cloud-look-ah-likes. The new games are horrible rip-offs (or really, really try to be) of FFVII and end up failing really bad.

I personally think all the older games are the best and I'd rather get remakes than new games if they continue to shell out this...this shite. :(
 
The whole "useless abilities" thing really started with VI. From very early on, when you could use Edgar's Auto Crossbow or Sabin's Fire Dance and end random battles with one swoop, the game was too easy. Seriously, did anyone ever actually use spells like "Muddle" or "Slow?" I played through the game using NO Espers and the difficulty level was exactly the same-- maybe even easier, because I didn't have to waste time scrolling through worthless spells to get to what I needed.

VII was even worse. 90% of the Materia, like sleep, confuse, were totally useless. They were a waste of space-- why bother with them, when you could just as well attack, and end the battle twice as fast. All the summons were basically the same. Use any of them once and the battle is over. Chocobo racing required no skill, it was purely a matter of having enough gil to feed your bird the best greens and it was an easy win.

IX was a breath of fresh air. I loved the game, and though it had lots of abilities few were truly useless. I had some hope that perhaps the series was going back in the right direction-- but then came X and the unforgivably awful X-2. I mean, come on. Who actually used the "gates" on the garment grids to get a +5 strength bonus? To get through X-2, all you had to do was pick 5 to 10 abilities/items out of hundreds of them, button mash, and the game was over. That's not fun and it requires no skill or strategy. That's a chore with no reward system.

I haven't played XII, nor will I ever. I simply have no interest in the series anymore. So I guess I don't have a right to be as hard on the game as I have, but from the gameplay videos I have seen I know I won't enjoy it. Part of what ruined X-2 was the fast-paced battle system. When I played the game the first time I was like "What just happened...?" Even slowed down they are just too fast and there's too much overload. That's not how games should be, in my opinion. They are WAY more enjoyable when you actually know what's going on.

Like I said before, I feel cheated. FFIV (2 on the SNES, when I played it originally) was a *masterpiece*. It required skillful use of virtually every spell your characters knew (with the exception of Rydia's "Poison") and the storyline was as engrossing as a Hollywood epic. And the final dungeon, and end boss... very difficult, as it should be. Kefka? Dead in four rounds. Sephiroth? ONE hit from KOTR-- done.

It is just really too bad, because the series had so much potential. VII in particular, great storyline butchered by bad translation; great concept with the Materia system, but it was just TOO EASY!

It all began with the dark triad of overloaded abilities, extraneous minigames, and that whole New Game + thing. And the super-hard "extra bosses", if beating them added something to the endings or some new storyline twist that would be one thing, but they never do. I am just floored these games are being rated as 9 out of 10 by gaming publications, that the bar has been set that low.

Well that rant should sum up my beef with the series pretty well...
 
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