Final Fantasy has gone down-hill

[Evee]

How will we know if we don't like a game if we don't play it? I didn't like FFXIII, but I bought FFXIII-2 because FFX-2 was a massive departure from FFX, and was hoping for something equally as radically different.

We're fans, we buy the games, it's what we do. An online community like this one represents the diehard fans of the series, and will in the main buy most stuff Squeenix will throw at us.

Basically we can't decide about a game if we haven't played it before. So I agree even if i haven't bought neither FFXIII nor FFXII-2 ect. since I don't have PS3. Plus, I think a fan keep on buying his favourite game despite the quality. A fan will ever be a fan
Then, that's normal he will complain if the game doesn't respect his expectation. But, I think it's only because of his "fan attitude".

 

[Millim]

I tend to fall in that category that enjoyed XIII. While I can't say it was the best game for this Gen or even RPG. It was sure as hell miles better then most other games this Gen. The biggest problem that people had was how linear it was. And while I admit that was a disappointment, the Story, the Music, the Graphics, the World was just as good as any other Final Fantasy Game. While XIII-2 did have DLC, most of these weren't crucial and there was only three you had to buy to expand the story. I remember a lot of people complaining that the ending had to be bought through DLC, but no one had shrugged at the fact that Fallout 3 did the same thing. So, while we're not getting the best of Final Fantasy at this moment, lets not forget that XIII was the only FF game in the main series that people didn't like. And I have to hand it to Square Enix to try something new and it failing. But like I said, I enjoyed the game myself and I look forward to Final Fantasy XV.

 

[Shaissa]

How will we know if we don't like a game if we don't play it? I didn't like FFXIII, but I bought FFXIII-2 because FFX-2 was a massive departure from FFX, and was hoping for something equally as radically different.

We're fans, we buy the games, it's what we do. An online community like this one represents the diehard fans of the series, and will in the main buy most stuff Squeenix will throw at us.

You kinda made my point, it doesn't matter how much people hate XIII or XIII-2, I feel like they will buy XIII-3 hoping that it will be better than the two that they hated... it is a series... if you didn't like the first two in the series why would you get the third one? Yet I know many people well just because it is Final Fantasy...

I liked XIII and XIII-2, so if I ended up getting XIII-3 it would be a different deal... it is like.... if you don't like... let say... Dynasty Warriors series... yet you buy the latest one expecting it to change... yet you know deep down it wont...

As far X-2 is concern with how much it changed from X, I think that is what people didn't like about it, how dramtic it change for a true sequel to a Final fantasy game.

 

[Robbiedbee]

As far X-2 is concern with how much it changed from X, I think that is what people didn't like about it, how dramtic it change for a true sequel to a Final fantasy game.

Yeah, actually that's why myself, along with a load of others didn't like it. But honestly, the fact that X-2 was such a departure from X gave me hope that XIII-2 would be so different from XIII that I would actually enjoy it. Know what I mean?

 

[Shaissa]

Yeah, actually that's why myself, along with a load of others didn't like it. But honestly, the fact that X-2 was such a departure from X gave me hope that XIII-2 would be so different from XIII that I would actually enjoy it. Know what I mean?

I understand, but my point with the XIII thing, is that people are hating on it so much and saying that Final Fantasy is going "downhill" yet here they are talking about getting XIII-3 when they don't even like the characters or the story for the XIII saga so far, as if a third one will make them love the whole series again.

 

[Sheechiibii]

You kinda made my point, it doesn't matter how much people hate XIII or XIII-2, I feel like they will buy XIII-3 hoping that it will be better than the two that they hated... it is a series... if you didn't like the first two in the series why would you get the third one? Yet I know many people well just because it is Final Fantasy...

I liked XIII and XIII-2, so if I ended up getting XIII-3 it would be a different deal... it is like.... if you don't like... let say... Dynasty Warriors series... yet you buy the latest one expecting it to change... yet you know deep down it wont...

As far X-2 is concern with how much it changed from X, I think that is what people didn't like about it, how dramtic it change for a true sequel to a Final fantasy game.

Well I did buy XIII-2, even though I loathed XIII. What made me buy it? I can't say for sure, a lot of things. The price had gone down a lot, reviews said it was much improved, the last FF sequel was a lot different to it's main title (X-2), it was focused on different characters than XIII. I tried to replay XIII, thought it was just as bad as I remembered, but then I thought to myself, why not just give XIII-2 a chance, the storyline seemed completely changed, the main characters weren't even playable characters in the first game. So I gave it a go and I absolutely loved it. The only thing good about XIII is XIII-2 imo. So...I hear what you're saying, and that's the reason I didn't buy XIII-2 as soon as it came out, but I wouldn't tell anyone they shouldn't get a sequel just because they didn't like the first, because I loved one and hated the other, my feelings on these two games couldn't be more opposite.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I understand, but my point with the XIII thing, is that people are hating on it so much and saying that Final Fantasy is going "downhill" yet here they are talking about getting XIII-3 when they don't even like the characters or the story for the XIII saga so far, as if a third one will make them love the whole series again.

Thats not the case for XIII anymore.....people are now renting more than buying....and again...compare XIII's initial sales with XIII-2. The chancss of people of buying XIII-2 are even lower for those who havent bought XIII-2 (which I dont doubt for a second that DLC was meant for compensating for sales)

 

[Cardinal Copia]

SE needs to remember this: If you're a video game company and your game lack story/have no story then your game is pointless.
That was my biggest beef with XIII. I absolutely hated the story and the characters were unbearable. I've never played a game(especially a FF game) to where I could sit there and say that I hated 99% of the characters. No open world exploration, no airship, no NPC's to talk to, the crystarium is so fucking linear that its borderline sickening, and the character that wasn't even the main focus gets all the attention and gets thrown in our face. When in fact she's a terrible excuse of a character.
I can only hope that the whole XIII focus and the massive boner they have for Lightning is done with after LR.

 

[Squalllionheart]

I completely agree, I think after FFX it just went to pot, I don't know if it's just me getting older and having less time for games in general due to other commitments or just losing my passion for games (unlikely as I still play hours worth of other games) but when I brought a Final Fantasy game it wouldn't leave my playstation until I had completed it from start to finish, the story, characters, combat and everything about that world would almost force me to keep playing because I wanted to know what happens and what's going on and how the main character is going to cope with problem A and B.

When I played FFX-2 I still enjoyed it somewhat, but I didn't feel the same, maybe because it was a spin off and had some characters that acted quite differently and looked much different, lets take Yuna for example, in X she was caring and sweet and loving and dressed like a respectful young woman In X-2 however, she was more like a bounty hunter looking for the next bit of loot and the way they made her dress was massively different (hot pants?!). Compare the two and tell me that by that point they weren't going down a "sex sells" path. Anyway thats just the art style.

I picked up XII and was quite excited as I missed out on XI because it's an MMO, I pretty much had to force myself to play through it, the characters weren't as interesting and the combat was..different, Ivalice is one of my favourite lands in all FF's but it just didn't fancy exploring much and I lost the will to play even though I got up to the last section of the game.

XIII again same thing, the characters were a little bit more interesting but the world and gameplay/combat couldn't hold my attention for a long period of time.

On the other hand, are you going to play the HD remake of X? (WHY NOT 9 OR EVEN 7?!!?!?!) Do you think you'll feel the same you did back then?

 

[Omega Mark VI]

I hate to say it but with out the people who really had a passion for the games (Hironobu Sakaguchi, and Nobuo Uematsu) they may not feel the same ever again. Also I agree that maybe its my own perception of the games since I'm older now and technology leaves less to the imagination than it did in the late 80s early 90s. I feel like everyone worries too much about graphical polish these days. I'm sure if they released a top down turn based FF again, even if it looked like crap, I'd play through twice just to make sure I didn't miss anything

 

[ShakaFlocka]

idk ff13 was ok to me it was linear but it was alright they did a lot better with 13-2 i like both of them i never thought they were going downhill maybe they got lazy but with lightning returns and ff15 being announced i know they will climb back up to the top tier especially with ff15 i have been waiting for that game forever and after seeing the trailer and nerding out im gonna go ahead and say it will be the best one to date

 

[Cardinal Copia]

idk ff13 was ok to me it was linear but it was alright they did a lot better with 13-2 i like both of them i never thought they were going downhill maybe they got lazy but with lightning returns and ff15 being announced i know they will climb back up to the top tier especially with ff15 i have been waiting for that game forever and after seeing the trailer and nerding out im gonna go ahead and say it will be the best one to date

Going out a limb to call a game the best one to date that hasn't even come out yet is kinda ridiculous. I'd really draw the horse back on that. Awful hasty there aren't we?

SE has really fallen as a FF gaming franchise so I'm not expecting much honestly(that is of course if it ever even comes out anytime soon). Outside of a game that looks graphically sexy, but has a story as interesting as watching paint dry.

 

[The Witch]

of course it has. it's a japanese RPG game in a day in age where games like battlefield and uncharted exist. they were amazing back in the day but they only take you so far before people start saying they're button smashers or whatever. they're rpgs. they age. they are an acquired taste.

 

[Dionysos]

They are probably still playable (I haven't played one since FFXIII, and I never completed FFXII beforehand), but for me the magic is gone.

There was something very special with the Final Fantasy series when I was younger, and I don't think it is merely nostalgia (though it undoubtedly plays its role). My first Final Fantasy was VII, and I fell in love with it absolutely. Then I played FFVIII, then IX, then VI, V, IV, I, II. I found that especially with FFIV-IX there was something very magical about the series.

The stories were good. The characters were fantastic. The music was brilliant. There was a mixture of darkness and humour. The comedic value was particularly strong (something which FFVII spin-offs would take away from the FFVII universe, but had been very much present in FFVII itself).

For me, Final Fantasy did for games what Disney used to do for cartoons in its heyday and renaissance period. There was a certain magical non-vulgar, pure, quality to it. It's hard to pin it down exactly. It's easy to get carried away with terms such as 'magical' etc, but that is all I think of to term it.

I don't feel that with the recent FF releases. I enjoyed FFXIII as a game, and had it not been an FF game I would have thought that it was great, though very linear. But as a Final Fantasy it just seemed to lack the magical quality that earlier FFs had.

The freshness of the series also helped earlier FF games. Nowadays when a new FF game comes out there tends to be lots of spin-offs (FFX, FFXII, FFXIII all had spin-offs of a sort). New releases are rarely as exciting for me, especially when the aspects which spin-offs want to expand on are often the duller, weaker aspects of the series for me (or a dulled down and weaker version of aspects that had been strong for me in the original game, i.e the treatment of Cloud).

On the whole, I am no longer excited by FF news. It's sad, but I'm lucky and glad that the FF series existed in the first place, as FFs 1-IX are fantastic games, and if I have the time I'd like to play them all again. FFX onwards are good games too, but they lack the 'magic' that the earlier games had for me, and as the series goes on that magic continues to be sapped from Square-Enix's veins.

 

[Linnaete]

If the E3 reactions to Final Fantasy XV are of any indication, then the IP at least continues to command significant - online at the very least - short-term euphoria and excitement at certain rare occasions, but it needn't be pointed out that Final Fantasy as a whole is barely haemorrhaging mainstream coverage. The other side of the FFXV euphoria coin is the realisation that the only concrete "big" new thing to look forward in the franchise is a repurposed, numbered action spinoff game that was announced more than seven years ago, still without even the vaguest release window thrown around.

FFXIII-2 elicited only a lukewarm response if sales figures and reports of overshipping are of any indication. It pulled off the worst sales performance since anything before FFVII, and now we have Lightning Returns, which is dead set to do just as badly, or worse. There's minimal coverage or excitement for Lightning Returns except in the most hardcore of Square-Enix or JRPG fansites, and I've never seen momentum building up for new info, trailers, and launch dates for a Final Fantasy game to be so muted. Let's be frank here. There's only one way I can properly sum up Lightning Returns: utter apathy.

As positive the feedback for the FFXIV beta has been so far, it's hard to be optimistic for its long term success when World of Warcraft and EVE Online appear to be the only viable MMOs with monthly fees, and even then, both aforementioned MMOs are showing signs of decline in subscriptions. They made FFXIV in the first place because FFXI was a goldmine, and it's so far been an expensive disaster, with a radical revamp that has internally shaken the company, leading to huge disruptions in terms of manpower priorities and the cancellation or indefinite delays of other projects. Furthermore, the MMO market has critically changed since the last decade. I don't even know if Square-Enix is aware of the shifting market paradigms at work here, or if they're just hiding in a bubble as long they can, hoping that a nuked-and-reset MMO will be an instant, long-term success.

As people say, there doesn't seem to be that same "magic" anymore. I've played FFXIII-2. I'm looking at Lightning Returns now. Neither of which will be remembered for being genre-defining games that are inspiring other studios to take up arms and produce their own responses. Final Fantasy back in the day was influentially genre-defining and led the way. Heck, they even produced a Lord of the Rings RPG with FFX's turn-based battle system. FFXIII-2 feels like half a JRPG and clumped with features that you can find in other games, and done infinitely better in those games. Now, Toriyama wants Lightning Returns to "beat" Skyrim (lololololol). There's none of that creative gravitas to the IP anymore because it's a reactionary move after another. It's become increasingly synonymous with mediocrity, and if Square isn't careful, this will perpetuate and intensify the older and smaller the traditional fanbase becomes through time.

Yes, FFXV can possibly turn things around. It still commands much anticipation and excitement, despite how absolutely frustrated virtually everyone is with its development life. But Square's going to have to do more, otherwise this action-RPG will become simply lost in a mire of other action-y next-gen games, most of which will be western. Final Fantasy as an IP needs to find a way to look and to be genre-defining again, and not just a "me too!" like Lightning Return's ambition to respond to Skyrim like its Dragon Age and Witcher counterparts (though to be fair, Witcher 3 isn't necessarily being a simple Skyrim "me too" game, and looks a hell of a lot better!).

I just don't know if Square-Enix is up for the task...

 

[ff1-10]

FFX onwards are good games too, but they lack the 'magic' that the earlier games had for me, and as the series goes on that magic continues to be sapped from Square-Enix's veins.

I agree with most of the things that you said, but seriously!? You didn't think X had that magic!? I feel like X was the last one to have that magic, and then it spiraled down after that. I'm not against your opinion; I'm just saying.

 

[Dionysos]

I agree with most of the things that you said, but seriously!? You didn't think X had that magic!? I feel like X was the last one to have that magic, and then it spiraled down after that. I'm not against your opinion; I'm just saying.

FFX certainly had more of that magic than FFXII onwards (and FFXI if you count that!).

I'd say that plot-wise, music-wise, and character-wise, the magic was still there. The only reason I do not think FFX worked as well as the earlier FF games is because of the gameplay. Less freedom. No world map. No airship. They were able to largely hide this by dressing it up as a pilgrimage, so it was expected to largely be following a road, so it worked for the story itself, I guess. It was still a shame to see those elements vanish though.

Still a magical game, but it was the start of the change, for me.

 

[Shaissa]

Kinda related to all this "going downhill" stuff...

This is something that Yoshinori Kitase (Director of Final Fantasy VI) had to say in an interview a few days ago..

“It’s maybe strange to say [this], but I miss the limitations of making games in those days,” Kitase acknowledges. “The cartridge capacity was so much smaller, of course, and therefore the challenges were that much greater. But nowadays you can do almost anything in a game. It’s a paradox, but this can be more creatively limiting than having hard technical limitations to work within. There is a certain freedom to be found in working within strict boundaries, one clearly evident in Final Fantasy VI.”

Also he said that FFVI took about a year to make... a year... not... 2.. not 3... not... 7+ *cough* Versus... or XV *cough*

Could this be a problem with this generation? That Square can do almost anything and is trying to do everything, and that is halting the advancing of more variety of FF games not just... XIII.. and now probably a bunch of XV stuff (if them trademarking Versus is giving us a hint on anything...)

 

[Evee]

Kinda related to all this "going downhill" stuff...

This is something that Yoshinori Kitase (Director of Final Fantasy VI) had to say in an interview a few days ago..

“It’s maybe strange to say [this], but I miss the limitations of making games in those days,” Kitase acknowledges. “The cartridge capacity was so much smaller, of course, and therefore the challenges were that much greater. But nowadays you can do almost anything in a game. It’s a paradox, but this can be more creatively limiting than having hard technical limitations to work within. There is a certain freedom to be found in working within strict boundaries, one clearly evident in Final Fantasy VI.”

Also he said that FFVI took about a year to make... a year... not... 2.. not 3... not... 7+ *cough* Versus... or XV *cough*

Could this be a problem with this generation? That Square can do almost anything and is trying to do everything, and that is halting the advancing of more variety of FF games not just... XIII.. and now probably a bunch of XV stuff (if them trademarking Versus is giving us a hint on anything...)

Maybe that's the true source of the downhill: having the possibility to have too much things to realize. It's normal, when you have many things to do and you can reach them easly, falling in a sort of confusion and in a state of laziness and so your mind doesn't work anymore. Your mind doesn't need to imagine to create things because you already are spoon-fed. As a result, Square Enix's staff has become lazy and bored.
At the beginning creating a FF game was a challenge (it challenged their minds), now it is only a means to earn money and make profit.

 

[Razberry Knight]

its important to note that important figures of SE have left the company, and these were people who had great ideas aswell. The FF side are really just a handful of creators, we don't get to see new people, thanks to Yoshi-P we get to see FF XIV to it's full glory. The "enix" side is very small, but i don't even believe their working on anything.