Forum Politics Discussion

[der Astronom]

Perhaps that incident with Abel and Aerosol on ACF might ring a few bells.

Saying that the forum is "beyond repair" and that you didn't think you could change it are not quite the same. The former implies a connotation, that is possibly biased, and the other one is more neutral. Just because I can't hear you speaking the words doesn't mean I can't imply your tone.

 

[Honest Abel]

The point of the matter is simple: I'd be more likely believe the four than the one. If one person says you're a horse ignore them. If two people do you might want to check that out. If three, four or more do go eat some hay. I think you can get the concept out of that. One person is more likely to lie than four....thus making it more rational to take the word of the four.

Four people that haven't seen the news would scoff at the person who has and go eat chicken and die? I can't see that happening, to be honest.

I should hope not. See my above comment. Because one person wants another person banned is no reason for a staff member to go ahead with it. It's quite possible that said person is merely the victim of a person who goes to forum and forum to hunt said person down. It's up to a staff memeber (and ultimately the admins) to decide the member merits banning. And once that's done that should be the end of it.

I've seen this happen several times at LOCP. It happened once to me, as a matter of fact.

http://www.**************/archive/showthread.php?threadid=7317

And it wasn't really a big deal to me. I signed up again and acted like a normal intelligent person, and no problems yet. What I get out of this is, the staff are elected by the members, and so if a member has a concern, the staff are there to perform the members' bidding. This is a perfect example of the staff being lower on a "food chain" than the members, because they're really only there to make the members happy.

That wasn't the point I brought up. I asked if they were underage. If they are underage and premitted within that usergroup they run the risk of breaking a law. I might just go and investigate this. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

I'm pretty sure underage people aren't allowed to see the porn forum. Also, I'm not sure if a teenager showing another teenager porn is breaking a law.

After all, since you feel so inclined to preach this forum about how its run don't we have the same right to preach to you?

Im' not preaching to FFF, I'm speaking in very general terms that can apply to any forum.

Then why, good sir, are you here? If you don't care about FFF nor do you feel you can change anything why are posting at all? Just to preach about your forum or tell everyone else how to run their own affairs?

Once again, no. I'm here because I like talking about Final Fantasy sometimes. Just because I don't care how FFF is run (hasn't bothered me so far) doesn't mean I don't think this debate is interesting.

Certainly not. I know exactly who you are. Seen you do this on other forums too.

Really? Where do I know you from?

Also, I think the bias rule was just exclusive to LOCP and FFF to prevent personally insulting people from either side. I wasn't aware ACF had representatives here.

Perhaps that incident with Abel and Aerosol on ACF might ring a few bells.

Saying that the forum is "beyond repair" and that you didn't think you could change it are not quite the same. The former implies a connotation, that is possibly biased, and the other one is more neutral. Just because I can't hear you speaking the words doesn't mean I can't imply your tone.

Well, I just clarified for you that I meant it as neutral.

 

[der Astronom]

Well, then I guess we know that on a forum that has the purpose of making the members happy as opposed to having the purpose of discussion for a specific crowd, the staff members might be on the bottom of the food chain. But you don't necessarily see that kind of forum everywhere, and the latter kind of forum wouldn't function poorly just because it weren't more democratic.

And seeing that you've mentioned ACF, don't assume that there aren't people from other forums that are also here means that no one here knows you. We've had quite a few forum hoppers. People from EyesonFF, FFInsider, and probably tons of other Final Fantasy forums, that are run probably no differently from this forum. Have we ever had a crisis? I guess not.

 

[Honest Abel]

Ah, well I'm under the impression that pretty much everyone, including many members that post at ACF in the spam forums, will agree that ACF's staff are the pinnacle of underhanded and Nazi. That's how I meant "ridiculous" in my example, anyway.

 

[Warrior of Light]

Four people that haven't seen the news would scoff at the person who has and go eat chicken and die? I can't see that happening, to be honest.

That's only if the person actually eats the chicken and dies. It's entirely possible that he's lying through his teeh.

I've seen this happen several times at LOCP. It happened once to me, as a matter of fact.

And here I thought you said you wouldn't mention forum names again...?

And it wasn't really a big deal to me. I signed up again and acted like a normal intelligent person, and no problems yet. What I get out of this is, the staff are elected by the members, and so if a member has a concern, the staff are there to perform the members' bidding. This is a perfect example of the staff being lower on a "food chain" than the members, because they're really only there to make the members happy.

Wrong. There was more than one person in that thread that asked for a banning. Again, numbers do matter--and ultimately it's up the admins to decide. And, again wrong, as the staff work with the members on a equal footing. People do not cease being members the moment they become staff. They aren't just their memebers happy--they are also their to enjoy their time.

I'm pretty sure underage people aren't allowed to see the porn forum. Also, I'm not sure if a teenager showing another teenager porn is breaking a law.

That's strange. There was an earlier comment about how "if a person is deemed mature they can see the porn forum". I'll go check to see who made that comment. And providing porn to a minor is felony, IIRC.

Im' not preaching to FFF, I'm speaking in very general terms that can apply to any forum.

Why don't you let the staff and the majority of the members decide what they want?

Once again, no. I'm here because I like talking about Final Fantasy sometimes. Just because I don't care how FFF is run (hasn't bothered me so far) doesn't mean I don't think this debate is interesting.

No, good sir, don't evade the question-Why are you here in this thread telling the staff how to run FFF if you don't care? This debate is interesting? That's all you got for me?

Really? Where do I know you from?

Didn't you just say that you knew me from a "ridiculus" forum?

Also, I think the bias rule was just exclusive to LOCP and FFF to prevent personally insulting people from either side. I wasn't aware ACF had representatives here.

So we can go ahead and insult ACF all we want? I suspect the Admins aren't gonna approve. They have a good many members from ACF (as I'm sure you well know) and they won't offend them in such a manner.

Well, I just clarified for you that I meant it as neutral

And everything I said was said with a complete straight face.

Ah, well I'm under the impression that pretty much everyone, including many members that post at ACF in the spam forums, will agree that ACF's staff are the pinnacle of underhanded and Nazi. That's how I meant "ridiculous" in my example, anyway

That's your opinion. Don't pretend you know what everyone thinks.

And you said that you weren't insulting anyone. *rolls eyes*

 

[Honest Abel]

It's possible that he can lie, but his friends would have to look up the information. Already said this.

I just made the point that we can use forums for examples. In my case, there were a few people that said ban him, but I'm pretty sure it was done after the first person said it. In any event, I've seen other cases where one person wants it, and it happens, just because the staff and the members are friendly with one another and don't mind. As soon as someone disagrees and offers a valid reason why a person shouldn't be banned, they will all listen to reason and unban that person. I know it's hard to fathom such a lovely thing happening between staff and members if you're from ACF like you claim, but it happens regularly.

I'm not sure if anyone else is reading my comments the same way you are, but I'll say it again: I'm not telling FFF how to run its forums, I'm perfectly fine here and have nad no problems with their system. I'm speaking in general terms that can apply to any forum. I guess you can ask Sephiroth if he still sees my comments as personally insulting to FFF, but that's not my intent and I hope you'll stop pinning that on me.

I said I knew you from a ridiculous forum like ACF. This could include FFR, FFE, ACF, EoFF, but I wasn't sure. I infer now that you are from ACF.

 

[Warrior of Light]

It's possible that he can lie, but his friends would have to look up the information. Already said this

And like I said: the four triumphs the one when all you have is their word.

I just made the point that we can use forums for examples.

And didn't the admin just point out that we aren't suppose to?

In my case, there were a few people that said ban him, but I'm pretty sure it was done after the first person said it.

So basically if Member A has a feud with Memeber B then all have to do is ask the staff to ban Member B...? And the staff aren't suppose to consider whether or not it might be a vendetta on the part of Member A?

In any event, I've seen other cases where one person wants it, and it happens, just because the staff and the members are friendly with one another and don't mind.

That's called favoristim. The staff are not suppose to ban people unless they break rules or otherwise are disruptive to the forum.

As soon as someone disagrees and offers a valid reason why a person shouldn't be banned, they will all listen to reason and unban that person.

Banned, unbanned, banned, unbanned, banned...An endless cycle of two members having a feud with each other. I should think the staff would rather follow a system of rules and keeping the forums drama-free.

I know it's hard to fathom such a lovely thing happening between staff and members if you're from ACF like you claim, but it happens regularly

More insults at ACF? Wow, you're really burned, Aerosol. ACF follows a system of break a rule/cause drama and you're banned.

BTW, I thought this wasn't suppose to be a promotion fest for FFR, LOCP, etc or an insult thread for ACF?

 

[der Astronom]

For your information, if you thought the moderators at ACF were Nazis, think again when you meet the moderators from places like icyforums.com.

Anyhow, I would prefer if you left the insults of other forums out of this discussion. It doesn't further the debate very much.

 

[Honest Abel]

I don't see why you think of providing a reason as "feuding." There's no favoritism involved in the example of a member pointing out someone should be banned; the democratically-elected staff member woudl logically appraise the situation; I'm just saying that it usually turns out the member and staff person are in agreement. Then if someone comes around claiming that the new member is their friend, the banned member would be unbanned, and that's the end of it. I wasn't particularly invited to LOCP when it happened to me, so I just gave up.

For the record, I think Dragon is accusing me of being aerosol. I am not a fan of FFR, mainly because Jay (aerosol) is the one who screwed it up and pretty much went against all he preached on ACF. I guess he finds humor in scaring all the activity away from forums. He definitely pulled a Mazen.

Sorry, Seph, for bring up other forums still, but you can tell I'm just trying to defend myself against Dragon in an aside.

 

[der Astronom]

I don't agree with unbanning someone just because they have a friend on that forum. It defeats the purpose of banning that person, and just because they have a friend on that forum doesn't mean the majority of forum members would care to have them back. If that member has caused enough trouble on that forum, it doesn't matter if he has a friend there; he gets banned to prevent him from causing more trouble, and because if he weren't banned, many members wouldn't be happy.

 

[Honest Abel]

I thought what I said would be taken that way. Let me explain what I meant:

In my example, the newb is banned because member A dislikes him prejudicely and member A asked a staffer to ban him. Then Member B comes along and says, hey wait a minute, I invited that newb to the forums, he's cool, he's with us. So then the staffer and Member A say, oh, sorry, welcome newb!

It's happened a few times, and nobody is hurt in the situation.

 

[Words of Ivory]

I don't agree with unbanning someone just because they have a friend on that forum. It defeats the purpose of banning that person, and just because they have a friend on that forum doesn't mean the majority of forum members would care to have them back. If that member has caused enough trouble on that forum, it doesn't matter if he has a friend there; he gets banned to prevent him from causing more trouble, and because if he weren't banned, many members wouldn't be happy.

Lennon Legend spring to mind?

"I know, lets unban the one person that drives us away from our forum in the first place!"

I think you'd fit in well there, Clotifan. Why haven't you joined, yet?

By the way, anyone is welcome to join LOCP and argue that your fascist style of government is better than our Athenian Democracy.

LOL, INTERNETZ!

*sits back and watches* This is the best thing I've read in weeks.

 

[Warrior of Light]

I don't see why you think of providing a reason as "feuding." There's no favoritism involved in the example of a member pointing out someone should be banned; the democratically-elected staff member woudl logically appraise the situation; I'm just saying that it usually turns out the member and staff person are in agreement. Then if someone comes around claiming that the new member is their friend, the banned member would be unbanned, and that's the end of it. I wasn't particularly invited to LOCP when it happened to me, so I just gave up.

I think Seph adequately answered that but I thought to add: If a member feels another member is a nuisance it is their duty to take the appropriate action--reporting each post that may or may not warrant warnings. If one member and one staff are in agreement that a member should be banned is a likely case of favoristim. What's the harm in letting the staff figure it out for themselves? If the member really is ban-worthy he'll make it obvious enough. Doing this ban-unban-ban-unban-ban-etc. is just a waste of staff time and resources that could go to better use on the forums.

For the record, I think Dragon is accusing me of being aerosol. I am not a fan of FFR, mainly because Jay (aerosol) is the one who screwed it up and pretty much went against all he preached on ACF. I guess he finds humor in scaring all the activity away from forums. He definitely pulled a Mazen.

You're not a fan of FFR but you continue to insist that the forums are so much better? Btw, he didn't scare away all the activity from ACF as I'm sure you know. 4000 to 5000 posts a day and over 20 000 members sure proves that comment wrong.

Yeah, I'll stop mentioning forums if you do....Clotifan.

 

[Honest Abel]

Or we can just talk via IM!

 

[Warrior of Light]

About what?

 

[Words of Ivory]

Or we can just talk via IM!

Or you could stop avoiding everything that points out all the ridiculous flaws in your arguments.

Suggestion for staff: If you want to be sure if this is aerosol or not... tell a black joke.

 

[Honest Abel]

Okay, to continue with the topic:

I think Seph adequately answered that but I thought to add: If a member feels another member is a nuisance it is their duty to take the appropriate action--reporting each post that may or may not warrant warnings. If one member and one staff are in agreement that a member should be banned is a likely case of favoristim. What's the harm in letting the staff figure it out for themselves? If the member really is ban-worthy he'll make it obvious enough. Doing this ban-unban-ban-unban-ban-etc. is just a waste of staff time and resources that could go to better use on the forums.

Because in a fun-loving environment, people are banned because of their taste in music or whatever trivial reason anyone wants to bring up. A staff member might not think to ban someone for things like that, so the members are there to help out. It's all to promote comedy. The person getting banned is most-likely a nobody with malicious intent anyway. For a forum to keep their memberbase intelligent, it's best to keep the membership open to invite only, unless a totally new member proves himself in an interesting way (which is why I've always been for the idea of a noob forum, where noobs have to prove themselves before being allowed access to the other parts of the forum).

 

[Warrior of Light]

Because in a fun-loving environment, people are banned because of their taste in music or whatever trivial reason anyone wants to bring up. A staff member might not think to ban someone for things like that, so the members are there to help out. It's all to promote comedy. The person getting banned is most-likely a nobody with malicious intent anyway. For a forum to keep their memberbase intelligent, it's best to keep the membership open to invite only, unless a totally new member proves himself in an interesting way (which is why I've always been for the idea of a noob forum, where noobs have to prove themselves before being allowed access to the other parts of the forum).

WTF? People are banned because they have a different taste in music?! That's a better reason than say...joining for the sole person of disrupting the forum and being a nusiance to the mods like say....someone in this thread? WTF?! Banning someone because they "might" be a malicious person is riddiculous. People should be banned on what they do--rather than what they might nor might not do.

And noob forum is downight discrimintaroy. Segeration in a forum, particularly if said subforum is made strictly to consider some members sub-par to others, is deterimental to the forum in whole. It brings hostiltiy. Again, FFF is not some other forum. The admins and mods (with sensible input from members) will decide what is implemented and what is not.

 

[Words of Ivory]

And noob forum is downight discrimintaroy. Segeration in a forum, particularly if said subforum is made strictly to consider some members sub-par to others, is deterimental to the forum in whole. It brings hostiltiy. Again, FFF is not some other forum.

It's a process used on LOCP.

Considering that's their idea of a quality forum, well...

 

[Honest Abel]

No need to bring up FFF, we already decided FFF isn't going to change based on tihs thread.

I know it seems out of this world to you, but when banning is used in such a trivial way, it degrades the value of it and makes members less afraid of it. Nobody wants to post on a forum where their words are dictated by fear!

I don't think a noob forum is that discriminatory. When you play a lot of online games, the characters under level 10 or whatever, for example, are kept to a certain area or can't become a certain class. It's for them to get used to the place, and to prove that they're not just going to enter and spam the place up.

LOCP doesn't actually use it anymore. Some people were opposed to it, so others (like myself) let the idea drop. We acheived such a thing through reasoning and discussion.