Guardian_Angel
Newbie
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ITS DIGUSTING GAY ERR MARRIED ERR
The Unforgiven Edit: Link has been taken out.
The Unforgiven Edit: Link has been taken out.
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Homosexual marriage - do you agree?
- Thread starter Davey Gaga
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Motogawa
Newbie
I guess somebody doesn't like the idea in a sense it's people with close minds that make the world it is today... sure guys like when two lesbians go at it but if it's two guys it's like "OMG OMG OMG OMG" like their cheerleaders on a binge. Basically learn how to open your mind also religion has a big in the whole "Homosexual Marriage" issue. Most religions think it's bad and "sinful" but everyone does bad things and really if god is a "forgiver" then why would he hate against the gays. Simple as that.
Love is love thats what you need to learn. People have free will and that everyone says the United States is free but look at that happends to stop same sex marriages or even when they had inter-racial marriages look how long that took but it's going to go down the same way.
I'm not forcing you off on your ideas but it's just an opinion laced with some facts so thanks.
QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
So Riku’s idea is that everyone has the power of choice and will over themselves to decide whoever/whatever they want to be and how to life their lives regardless of any sociological condition, did I get that right?
I kind of agree and disagree with this, Riku, first it is true that everyone has free will, everyone can think for themselves, everyone can decide what their want their “fate” to be, maybe is even possible to someone to decide to be a homosexual even at a subconscious lever, and thus would be possible to decide not to be one at the very same subconscious lever.
Now the problem with this theory/ideology is that nowadays people don’t really like to think by themselves, maybe is just easier to do what society wants you to do, copy what they do instead of just being yourself, you probably have notice this with people who listen to music, and like fashion, even politics would be a good example of how people tends to copy what others say and make that their opinion and not try to and decide for themselves.
I have a theory myself, I believe that many people who claims to be gay actually are not, these people (In my opinion) simple had some estrange experience or maybe “wicked thoughts” at some time of their lives that made them believe that they were gay, and because now a days there is much of these “gay rights movements” and stuff the concept of being a gay person doesn’t carry as much weigh as before, for example 50 years ago if you would have find out that you were gay the thing that you were more likely to do was to deny it to yourself and try to eliminate every though of it from your mind because society would never accept you, it was the end of the world for you, but nowadays there is much more “freedom” today is not the end of the world if you are gay, and people is encourage to respect you even with your sexual preferences.
Not only that, nowadays they are trying to give this image to this homosexuality:
1- It is something as natural as heterosexuality
2- There is nothing to be ashamed of
3- You didn’t ask to be gay; you were born like this thus you can’t do anything against it, you can’t change it.
4- If you ever thought that your male room partner was hot and you are a man, then you are definably gay, but hey there’s no problem with that.
So in this situation someone could come to the wrong conclusion of being gay, but them they would be so trapped into their own lies that they would have no way to come out of it, I think I said something similar in another of my post in this thread, again I repeat this is just speculation and my personal opinion.t
Those who know me know that I don’t like to go into religious debates, am not very religious myself, but am part of a religion (because all in my family are of that religion) but I just wanted to point out one thing.
In other to obtain forgiveness you must regret of your sins, and since Homosexuality is a sin (in most religions anyway) a person would need to regret being gay (and stop being it I would guess) in other to receive the forgiveness for their sin.
No intention to offend, just pointing that out, in most religious movies that I seen even a murderer could go to heaven, but they always regret their sins at the end (and conveniently right before they die)
I kind of agree and disagree with this, Riku, first it is true that everyone has free will, everyone can think for themselves, everyone can decide what their want their “fate” to be, maybe is even possible to someone to decide to be a homosexual even at a subconscious lever, and thus would be possible to decide not to be one at the very same subconscious lever.
Now the problem with this theory/ideology is that nowadays people don’t really like to think by themselves, maybe is just easier to do what society wants you to do, copy what they do instead of just being yourself, you probably have notice this with people who listen to music, and like fashion, even politics would be a good example of how people tends to copy what others say and make that their opinion and not try to and decide for themselves.
I have a theory myself, I believe that many people who claims to be gay actually are not, these people (In my opinion) simple had some estrange experience or maybe “wicked thoughts” at some time of their lives that made them believe that they were gay, and because now a days there is much of these “gay rights movements” and stuff the concept of being a gay person doesn’t carry as much weigh as before, for example 50 years ago if you would have find out that you were gay the thing that you were more likely to do was to deny it to yourself and try to eliminate every though of it from your mind because society would never accept you, it was the end of the world for you, but nowadays there is much more “freedom” today is not the end of the world if you are gay, and people is encourage to respect you even with your sexual preferences.
Not only that, nowadays they are trying to give this image to this homosexuality:
1- It is something as natural as heterosexuality
2- There is nothing to be ashamed of
3- You didn’t ask to be gay; you were born like this thus you can’t do anything against it, you can’t change it.
4- If you ever thought that your male room partner was hot and you are a man, then you are definably gay, but hey there’s no problem with that.
So in this situation someone could come to the wrong conclusion of being gay, but them they would be so trapped into their own lies that they would have no way to come out of it, I think I said something similar in another of my post in this thread, again I repeat this is just speculation and my personal opinion.t
Those who know me know that I don’t like to go into religious debates, am not very religious myself, but am part of a religion (because all in my family are of that religion) but I just wanted to point out one thing.
In other to obtain forgiveness you must regret of your sins, and since Homosexuality is a sin (in most religions anyway) a person would need to regret being gay (and stop being it I would guess) in other to receive the forgiveness for their sin.
No intention to offend, just pointing that out, in most religious movies that I seen even a murderer could go to heaven, but they always regret their sins at the end (and conveniently right before they die)
Tristis Miles
Ex-Soldier
I knew vaguely of them before entering this topic. Over time and browsing a few links, it's pretty unnerving to find some of the things they do to homosexuals =/ So inhumane.
That's the major factor in keeping it suppressed: the only one, I think. If society was open and accepting of things, not just homosexuality, the world would be a better place to live without a doubt. People would be comfortable and feel supported throughout life. In my eyes though, I don't see this ever happening. But more on topic: this rejection action that society takes causes one to feel self-hatred, does it not? Hence one is capable of hating being homosexual.
Hm, well when I think of the word 'choice,' I think it as a conscious decision between a set of paths. But does a man really wake up in the morning and think "I'm not going to love women, I'm going to love guys"? Same question to a heterosexual: do they wake up and think "I'm going to love the opposite"? I know I haven't done such a thing, have you?
As to your example, that's quite true, but there're some key differences. Firstly, just to put it out there: one can't ever be in complete control of their body. Some things are just automatic or set, like breathing, heartbeat, your involuntary muscles, height. Secondly, with smoking, the person wasn't born into doing such a thing. They chose to do so, got hooked on the nicotine, and lived life from there: which yes, it would be a choice to continue or discontinue such matters.
The thing with sexuality though is that it's not really something you can tell at birth. The hormones don't really kick in until about teenage years, and at that time the kid is just generally perceived as young, naive, immature and incapable of concluding something solid and meaningful (don't you love that?). That's why I think the question of "is homosexuality granted at birth or not?" is in existence. Think about it though: do you 'choose' to be heterosexual?
When you say the person 'wants' to be homosexual, you're referring to whether or not they accept their sexuality, right? If so, then yeah, nothing can hold them back from living their life how they see fit. When you say that last line there though - that something you 'can't fight' - do you really think it should have to be fought? Your mind versus your body if it were a choice? The most logical solution when you make a choice/decision is the one that offers the least conflict/resistance; the one that is most peaceful. To choose the path which society has clearly labeled forbidden goes against logic, therefore wouldn't that make it "pre-decided" - out of your control?
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Religion seems to keep popping back up in here, so I'll just shove in some food for thought: If God created all, why would God create something he or she hated?
Why not, the whole thing is stupid, why should marriage be confined to two people of different sexes. I thought the whole point of marriage was two consenting adults expressing there love for each other.
I'm a christian and heard many sermones about how its bad and wicked. I find it funny that a religion that preaches love and forgiveness feel so much hate and closed mindedness.
And i know it says in the bible that its a detestable sin but the bible is not the "Word of God" its the translated "Word of God", it was written by men.
I also have a theory, you don't chose to be gay, its either something you are or are not, so in essence your created that way, but if you say that God created people in a way that they intentionally sin, and that they have a flaw then its essentially blaspheming saying God is imperfect.
I'm a christian and heard many sermones about how its bad and wicked. I find it funny that a religion that preaches love and forgiveness feel so much hate and closed mindedness.
And i know it says in the bible that its a detestable sin but the bible is not the "Word of God" its the translated "Word of God", it was written by men.
I also have a theory, you don't chose to be gay, its either something you are or are not, so in essence your created that way, but if you say that God created people in a way that they intentionally sin, and that they have a flaw then its essentially blaspheming saying God is imperfect.
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QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
Good idea for a new thread!, if God created all, and God is prefect then why there is impefection (Evil) in the world? there would only be 2 or 3 logical answer for this.
1. God is not perfect, nor entirely good, thus his creations reflect the same imperfection
2. God is perfect but he wanted to create an imperfect world for reasons beyond our understanding (maybe a perfect world would be too boring), he also gave us us free will so we could decide by ourselves regardless of what he wanted us to do, this way he would be sure to have created actually worthy beings
3. The world is actually perfect, what we percive as imperfection and evil is actually part of God's plan, humans need the influence of evil in order to grow and choose the right path, there is evil so people can know it and decide to avoid it, by themselves, and with this experience becoming what God really wants them to be.
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I was totally offtopic there so to go back with this homosexual marriage thing, if we all (the people in this planet) just would agree that homosexuality is a bad thing, then we would just have to forbid i, that way people hwould have no hoice but to "follow the right path"
This one's a tricky... To start off, I would like to say from a personal and Christian standpoint, I do believe that homosexuality is a sin, and morally wrong, yaddayaddayadda, you get the picture. However, I also believe that God created people with free will so they can do as they want so they will hopefully come to their own conclusions and awakenings, and, due to those conclusions, hopefully repent. To make things short, I think it's wrong, but they should be allowed freedom to do as they choose as God willed.
Tristis Miles
Ex-Soldier
You forgot the other logical explanation: God doesn't really hate gays.
As you say, free will: choice. "So we can decide for ourselves regardless if it's what he wanted us to do" ("regardless if it's right or not.") If we chose wrong, how would we be "actual worthy beings"?
Your third item of logic contradicts itself QuickSilverD. You said the world was in fact perfect, then started on about evil. If it was perfect, there'd be no evil: Gays then in fact not evil but simply perceived to be so.
The discussion isn't really getting off topic if you think about it. It's still about homosexuality: maybe not the marriage aspect, but then we've never really stuck to that aspect have we? Marriage is somewhat linked to religion as Christians and others are so appalled, hence we talk into that.
As you say, free will: choice. "So we can decide for ourselves regardless if it's what he wanted us to do" ("regardless if it's right or not.") If we chose wrong, how would we be "actual worthy beings"?
Your third item of logic contradicts itself QuickSilverD. You said the world was in fact perfect, then started on about evil. If it was perfect, there'd be no evil: Gays then in fact not evil but simply perceived to be so.
The discussion isn't really getting off topic if you think about it. It's still about homosexuality: maybe not the marriage aspect, but then we've never really stuck to that aspect have we? Marriage is somewhat linked to religion as Christians and others are so appalled, hence we talk into that.
QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
Sorry I wasn't really talking about gay people, I really really went offtopic there, but I did made a new thread
No, it doesn't it states: Evil is not an imperfection is part of the world's perfection, Evil in this case works as a motivator you could say, to learn to grow
Yeah I know, This was about marriage, but is hard to talk about if is right or not unless that you first disscuss the matter of homosexuality itself,
This topic already has over 260 replies, many or most of them "good posts" and I've read them all from the first page till now and still we haven't get to any conclution, probably we will never will
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UltimaNatus
Ex-Soldier
If you really believe in GOD (again for the people that keep saying they do and he dislikes it) ... then you will believe he has chosen everyones path, and that what happens to you in your life is his will. So what makes you able to say that he hasnt made Gay people the same. The biggest sin is HATE/EVIL. And people who judge others for being who they are are the biggest sinners going ...... LET HIM WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE.... meaning do not comment on the paths i have chosen for others until you learn to let live those who may be different. If you cannot do this then you are sinful.
I do believe God made us, and chooses our options in life, besides that, it's our choice. I don't hate gay people, I just believe it's wrong. Believe me, I'm not prejudice, I have friends who are like that or Bi.
I don't hate them because they have a sin, because I have my own I have to overcome as well. For example; When I'm really angry, I tend to cuss. God never said that any sin was 'better' than another, so my cussing on those occaisions when I'm angry is just as bad as me murdering somebody or anything else. And I wasn't being judgemental on gay people when I said that I believe being gay is a sin, so, please don't spout outbursts at me. Thank you!
I do believe God made us, and chooses our options in life, besides that, it's our choice. I don't hate gay people, I just believe it's wrong. Believe me, I'm not prejudice, I have friends who are like that or Bi.
I don't hate them because they have a sin, because I have my own I have to overcome as well. For example; When I'm really angry, I tend to cuss. God never said that any sin was 'better' than another, so my cussing on those occaisions when I'm angry is just as bad as me murdering somebody or anything else. And I wasn't being judgemental on gay people when I said that I believe being gay is a sin, so, please don't spout outbursts at me. Thank you!
Surely you can't be comparing a word which is "frowned upon" to homocide? Relgious or not, there is a -CLEAR- difference and comparison. For starters, "Thou shall not cuss" is not in the ten commandments, but can you say the same for muder?
Therefore, we can conclude that -some- sins are worse than others.Actually, 'I Shall not cuss', as you put it, is there, but in the form of 'do not take the Lord's name in vain'.Surely you can't be comparing a word which is "frowned upon" to homocide? Relgious or not, there is a -CLEAR- difference and comparison. For starters, "Thou shall not cuss" is not in the ten commandments, but can you say the same for muder?
Gee, God sounds an aweful lot like a dictator...
I can see why some homosexuals would want to be married under the laws of their chosen religion...
However...I don't understand why a homosexual would follow a religion which preaches against his personal beliefs...
In today's society, it's perfectly fine to write your own version of the bible and start your own bloodyreligion, so...I don't see why a homosexual hasn't done this yet...
Yes but the religion wouldn't last long, seeing as the people who founded it wouldn't have any children before they all died. (Sorry, bad joke, but I wanted to get it off my chest somehow.)
Everyone can believe what they want to believe and personally, I believe god does NOT exist at all.
I believe it's just a way people try to explain things they don't understand, by thinking everything was created by some "god" while there is absolutely no proof of that creature existing at all.
One thing is for sure though, the world we live in today would not have been the same without religion, and for that I am thankfull. Still wont believe in a "god" though. So I guess I'll burn in hell then. ey?
Well, I guess that's the terrible risk I'll have to take xP
sorry for being a bit off-topic here.
uhm gay marriage? As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't mind it.
I believe it's just a way people try to explain things they don't understand, by thinking everything was created by some "god" while there is absolutely no proof of that creature existing at all.
One thing is for sure though, the world we live in today would not have been the same without religion, and for that I am thankfull. Still wont believe in a "god" though. So I guess I'll burn in hell then. ey?
Well, I guess that's the terrible risk I'll have to take xPsorry for being a bit off-topic here.
uhm gay marriage? As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't mind it.
'Oh shit'. Well, will I apologise to God now, or go to confession?
My point here is that it's different to say that as it is to say "Jesus Christ, STFU!" or something along those lines.Can I just ask, I'm curious: where does it say in the Bible that Homosexuality is a Sin in the eyes of Christianity? Or even, where does it suggest this?
QuickSilverD
I Think... Therefore You Are
'Oh shit'. Well, will I apologise to God now, or go to confession?
Can I just ask, I'm curious: where does it say in the Bible that Homosexuality is a Sin in the eyes of Christianity? Or even, where does it suggest this?
Oh my friend Riku, I had already pointed this out, so let me quote mysefl on this one.
Why do you think people keep mentioning religion so much?
It's as Rhea said before. They want to get 'married'. Marriage deals with the religion, as it is normally religious figures that marry people together... It really dosn't make sense to me why they'd want to get married anyway... Just so they could say they're more than 'domestic partners'?
Silver, those quotes seem a tad ambiguous to me. To have brought a debate this far with religion, someone has really been trying hard to do so. Nothing is mentioned directly, however, until practically the last two or three lines. And, yet again, only -SEX- is mentioned.
Myself said: