N o t . I n t e r e s t e d - A Cloud Strife Club

[Abstract Debauchery]

PAGE 60 GET.

Also, Cloud sucks.

 

[Alak]

What about you guys @Alak @Dragon Mage @Psalm 14:1

My opinion on the Advent Children outfit? Hmm... let me show you my ranking of Cloud's outfits to date:

1) KH Vincent-inspired outfit
2) FFVII SOLDIER outfit
3) Advent Children/KH2 original outfit
4) Crisis Core Shinra soldier outfit
5) Little kiddy Cloud outfit

With that being said, I have sort of neutral feelings about the AC Cloud. I liked that he got a new set of clothes because he really needed to break ties with his past. I highly doubt he'd want to remain dressed as a Shinra employee. Therefore, the change in itself is good even though I prefer the old design due to my biased, purist nature. I think the sleeve is unnecessary now that he no longer has the geostigma, and it only makes him look that much more depressing. Without it, he actually begins to resemble is FFVII self. The fabric around his legs probably serves as protection from kicked up dirt and shrapnel similar to the kama worn by Phase II Clone Troopers in the Star Wars franchise. Although, the material has... questionable durability. While it would probably be useful in fights, it'd be a terrible clothing choice for riding a motorcycle.

As for weaponry, I'm glad he replaced the Buster Sword for something far superior. Let's face it: Cloud's skilled enough to carry and switch between 6 different swords. The potential of variability gives him such a huge advantage in combat... if it weren't for stupid plot devices such as self-doubt, making the villains seem tough, etc. Customizing the Fenrir to accommodate each of these blades was a good touch, too.

Speaking of the Fenrir, let's talk motorcycles. I love the Daytona, but the problem with bringing it into Advent Children is that 1) The original was a stolen vehicle and 2) Cloud sort of lost it as soon as he left Midgar. He did the next best thing, buy a new one and customize it. On the other hand, while I do think the Fenrir was a logical choice, I'll admit that I don't like its design. I thought he'd pick something as grungy and tough-looking as the Daytona as opposed to something more sleek and organic as the Fenrir. That's just me, though.

Dual-wield does not equate to more damage. That's just a fictional thing, and I personally think it's much more effect to wield a single sword in a 1 vs. 1 confrontation. Swords are surprisingly heavy, and even though I myself can utilize a steel katana with ease, I find holding 2 of them to be much more difficult (i.e. - dual-wielding =/= more speed). I still support the fusion swords since Cloud is outnumbered a lot and he could use the additional weapons to keep opponents at bay. He still has the option of combining them to create one very massive and very dangerous sword.

Anyway, what else is there to talk about with this outfit? I like the emblem on his pauldron, but I don't like how it looks like a door knob. I like his sun glasses. I like his phone. I don't like the lack of materia slots in his sword or bike. I miss the gauntlet. Oh, and I still love the KH outfit:

The poncho! The claw! The non-sensical bandaged sword! The retaining elements of his SOLDIER costume! The demonic wing!

 

[The Witch]

PAGE 60 GET.

Also, Cloud sucks.

Get out Ringo. Or I will kick you swiftly in your butt.

Speaking of the Fenrir, let's talk motorcycles. I love the Daytona, but the problem with bringing it into Advent Children is that 1) The original was a stolen vehicle and 2) Cloud sort of lost it as soon as he left Midgar. He did the next best thing, buy a new one and customize it. On the other hand, while I do think the Fenrir was a logical choice, I'll admit that I don't like its design. I thought he'd pick something as grungy and tough-looking as the Daytona as opposed to something more sleek and organic as the Fenrir. That's just me, though.

Agreed. I'd prefer for him to have his rougher and grungy looking Daytona but I still like Fenrir. I think Fenrir is like the muscle car of motorcycles as apposed to the truck-like daytona... if ya catch my drift.

Honestly I think Cloud(if he saves up enough green) he'd own both a daytona and his new motorcycle so either one is good to me.

Although, I can't lie, when I write a fanfic I'm usually thinking of daytona if I'm writing his motorcycle in a fic. (but I still like Fenrir )

Dual-wield does not equate to more damage. That's just a fictional thing, and I personally think it's much more effect to wield a single sword in a 1 vs. 1 confrontation. Swords are surprisingly heavy, and even though I myself can utilize a steel katana with ease, I find holding 2 of them to be much more difficult (i.e. - dual-wielding =/= more speed). I still support the fusion swords since Cloud is outnumbered a lot and he could use the additional weapons to keep opponents at bay. He still has the option of combining them to create one very massive and very dangerous sword.

But we don't have Mako in us. Obviously it lags people down in the real world, but in Cloud's world it allows more damage to be given to enemies. Like when he was fighting Loz and Yazoo. Both were attacking Cloud at once but because he had two swords he could keep up with them.

I think the sleeve is unnecessary now that he no longer has the geostigma, and it only makes him look that much more depressing.

Am I the only one who likes it there? It seems very samurai-ish to me.

 

[Saints&Storms]

They did well with Cloud's face.

But, what happened here?!!?

Wut? Whats wrong with his face there, he looks very masculine, what am I supposed to see here; this picture, even if it IS re-painted fanart, doesn't look the least bit contrast to manly. :dave:

• The flap of cloth on Cloud's leg could get caught in the wheels or snag on something causing serious bodily harm!
• The style of Cloud's bike is completely different. The chassis is covered with paneling. The styling of the original FF7 bike is so much better. :x
• The alloy shoulder protector / dueling sleeve is gone and replaced with a leather one. Downgrade!
• Cloud's sword is replaced with a swiss army knife inspired gizmo that splits into multiple swords. Boo, I say. Boo.

• Actually no, Clouds side-cape isn't nearly long enough to stretch that far, it would have to drape to the floor like a wedding train for it to be THAT long, or even get caught in his wheel.

• Seeing as Cloud is riding his bike up and through debris and fighting with it quite a lot (his fight with Kadaj as well as his fight with Loz and Yazoo) and jumping around with it, I'd say yeah, he's gonna want that armor like shell for to act as as a shield.

• His shoulder pad is plated in leather but I don't think we know whats underneath ACTUALLY, leather plated armor is an actual thing I am pretty sure xD

• Why "Boo" if Cloud had only his buster sword he wouldn't have been able to THIS with just one sword, he would have been crushed by rubble. His First Tsurugi is not only more efficient but cooler in my opinion.

Did I say bandana? I meant to say: poncho. :x

Anyway, I can't say I care much for the KH styling, either.

The Cloud I know would chop that wing off and feed it to Kadaj and the Sephiroth rejects for dinner.

KHI Cloud is the closest thing to FFVII Cloud since FFVII itself, everything else has been damn near butchered to pieces in my honest opinion. But to get to Cali's question I say Advent Children Cloud has MY favorite outfit of the series; it all Cloud it wasn't Zacks or anybody else' - so it just gives of the original Cloud vibe.

 

[The Witch]

Wut? Whats wrong with his face there, he looks very masculine, what am I supposed to see here; this picture, even if it IS re-painted fanart, doesn't look the least bit contrast to manly. :dave:

It's still fanart but yeh, I agree. It's not NOT manly. :

• Actually no, Clouds side-cape isn't nearly long enough to stretch that far, it would have to drape to the floor like a wedding train for it to be THAT long, or even get caught in his wheel.

Thank you for the picture. T_T I knew it wasn't that long.

• Seeing as Cloud is riding his bike up and through debris and fighting with it quite a lot (his fight with Kadaj as well as his fight with Loz and Yazoo) and jumping around with it, I'd say yeah, he's gonna want that armor like shell for to act as as a shield.

Good point. Never really thought of that before. But you got a point. The motorcycle will have to be able to endure dangerous landscapes and fights with monsters. The whole reason Cloud got Fenrir was to be able to travel the dangerous world(while most people didn't want to)... so the armor-like-look of Fenrir makes it more durable and like an all-Terrain-vehicle. It's very practical.

• Why "Boo" if Cloud had only his buster sword he wouldn't have been able to THIS with just one sword, he would have been crushed by rubble. His First Tsurugi is not only more efficient but cooler in my opinion.

Ooh, good poooooooooooint! If Cloud didn't have his duel wield he would have died so many times. I think Tsurugi is so much cooler than buster sword. Like you said, it's Cloud's own thing. It wasn't Zack's weapon, it was just something that solely belonged to Cloud and I think that's why I like it more than buster sword.

KHI Cloud is the closest thing to FFVII Cloud since FFVII itself, everything else has been damn near butchered to pieces in my honest opinion. But to get to Cali's question I say Advent Children Cloud has MY favorite outfit of the series; it all Cloud it wasn't Zacks or anybody else' - so it just gives of the original Cloud vibe.

I couldn't agree more. VII was Zack's uniform. KH was taken from Vincent's. But AC was just all Cloud. It wasn't Zack's sword, motorcycle, or clothing--it was all genuinely Cloud's. Not an ounce of anything he had in AC belonged to anyone else.

It was like the real stuff Cloud had was finally starting to make an imprint visually.

 

[Alak]

Well, let's remember that it's a generic SOLDIER uniform. Actually, there are some minor changes such as Cloud's incessant need to make everything asymmetrical (seriously, why is that?!) so he only has one pauldron and a gauntlet. Other than that, the core design is prevalent among most SOLDIERs. That's probably why I tend to refer to the uniform as the "Shinra employee" outfit. Who needs to look at his eyes to know that he's SOLDIER, just check out the clothes lol.

As for the whole dual-wielding, yeah being superhuman definitely helps out a lot. I even said that multiple swords help him when facing multiple opponents, but if you're going against godly fast and powerful opponent like Sephiroth then a single sword is better imo. That's another cool thing about the fusion swords because he can choose to have one or two depending on the scenario.

Oh, and in yet another effort to advertise Cloud's poncho outfit (yes, I'm calling it that from now on) I shall post more pictures!!!

Ponchos are awesome

Don't hate the poncho

Cloud approves of the poncho

Mini-Poncho?

Forget the poncho, how about that hair?

Cosplayed poncho

^ all those are DeviantART links so that we can also appreciate the artists who drew them.

 

[The Witch]

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=Cloud+Strife+Kingdom+Hearts#/dct9yu

that picture does so many things to my ovaries.

Alak, you brought up an awesome question in another thread so I wanna ask it again but in the club so everyone can answer.

Who do you think is the better fighter Sephiroth... or Cloud? I suggest everyone look at the thread to get a full reasoning behind the question, but maybe everyone can answer here and there.

 

[Dragon Mage]

@f a r f a l l a

I do my best to please!

Its possible listening to Justin Bieber music comes with an entirely new definition of pain and suffering.

YES! A THOUSAND TIMES, YES!

However, I think I like the AC design the best. Sure, the manskirt-cape was kinda odd. But I tend to think of it as a more futuristic/abstract take on a trenchcoat/duster than a cape. In that regard, it just makes Cloud all the more sexily bitchin'. Booya!

The fenrir... Can't say I like it..

Get.

Out.

Now.

You hate everything beautiful in this world and I shall not associate with you further.

(But, you can bribe me with chocolate....)

It's never been leather. The part that covers his arm is cloth... unless you're talking about the shoulder pad--that is leather and it's always been leather. The one from VII was made of metal.

I believe it's called a pauldron.

Also, I thought the AC pauldron was metal myself, covered with a layer of leather. Such things are not unheard of, and in fact makes for a pretty good light armor.

He replaced buster sword with a newer sword that was more handy for him to duel wield since he's ambidextrous. It allows Cloud to do double the damage which makes him quite manly--especially since he's lifting and swinging both 50-60 pound weapons around in both arms.

I say yay.

I kinda like the Fusion Swords, honestly. It's like he took a level in badass, which offically upgrades him to ultimate badass. Also, considering his track record of losing his sword/weapon, I think it's only prudent that he pack as many weapons as he can into one. If one gets knocked out of hand, he's got another! :dave:

But I don't think they weigh 50-60 pounds. Your average sword only weighs about 3-5 pounds. I think all totaled, the fusion swords would weight about 20 pounds.

Still a lot of weight to swing around, though.

Wut? Whats wrong with his face there, he looks very masculine, what am I supposed to see here; this picture, even if it IS re-painted fanart, doesn't look the least bit contrast to manly. :dave:

FINALLY. I swear, that shot may not be the best of him, but it looks manly to me. I mean, Cloud is only 23, right? Shit, he's practically a kid still. He's only been able to drink legally for 2 years! I don't expect him to quite have the hard, weathered look of a matured adult quite yet. He looks plenty manly for his age and condition (because keep in mind, ridiculously fit people always look a few years younger).

I hate it when people expect 19-25 year olds to look like grungy adults. They're still quite young for crying out loud. I have a few friends that are 23 and they've yet to even grow out a full beard, for shit's sake.

I hate it when people say that Cloud doesn't look masculine. I think he's doing just fine (yum yum!) for where he's at.

*staunchly defends Cloud's masculinity unabashedly*

I say Advent Children Cloud has MY favorite outfit of the series; it all Cloud it wasn't Zacks or anybody else' - so it just gives of the original Cloud vibe.

This. So very much.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Thank you for the picture. T_T I knew it wasn't that long.

Am I weird for being ready to post such an image/scan? :whacky: But yeah, no Cloud's side skirt/thing isn't that long, no longer than Japanese Hakama in my personal opinion.

And if Batman's cape doesn't get caught in HIS wheels neither will Clouds xD

Since Fenrir looks like that Mach Ness-ish Batman Bike from the Dark Knight.

Okay, this is like the most annoying thing about the FF7 fandom. No one knows armor terms.

It's a pauldron. PAULDRON. Please, call it a pauldron.

Also, I thought the AC pauldron was metal myself, covered with a layer of leather. Such things are not unheard of, and in fact makes for a pretty good light armor.

That's just crazy, not every one is going to know the terms for armor and such just because it annoys you, if people want to call it a 'Shoulder-Pad' they can call it that, hell if they wanna call it 'arm dingy' they can call it that too but don't expect everyone else to care enough to call it a Pauldron especially when we won't be bothered to research the titles of such ridiculous things -- Because someone can easily turn around and say; that's wrong and that its in fact and actually a spaulder.

But who wants to get that technical?

But anyway I agree, I always believed it would be armor plated with leather or such :/

I hate it when people expect 19-25 year olds to look like grungy adults. They're still quite young for crying out loud. I have a few friends that are 23 and they've yet to even grow out a full beard, for shit's sake.

I hate it when people say that Cloud doesn't look masculine. I think he's doing just fine (yum yum!) for where he's at.

I think people just get looking younger than most men confused with looking effeminate or something. Which is silly nonetheless.

---
​

Who do you think is the better fighter Sephiroth... or Cloud?

I think technique-wise Cloud is definitely better but experience wise Sephiroth may just be at Clouds level if not higher, Sephiroth has years of training and age on his side so its definitely hard to decide, Buuuut Cloud is obviously the stronger one of the two but judging from alone experience -- its too hard to say

 

[The Witch]

But yeah, no Cloud's side skirt/thing isn't that long, no longer than Japanese Hakama in my personal opinion.

And if Batman's cape doesn't get caught in HIS wheels neither will Clouds xD

Since Fenrir looks like that Mach Ness-ish Batman Bike from the Dark Knight.

Yeah, I agree about the batman cape bit. If Batman's cape doesn't get sucked into the engine or wheel, neither will Cloud's. but I think that picture is Tron's cycle. THIS is batman's http://easyz.net/uploads/2011/08/batcycle-badpod-motorcycle-batman.jpg

looks JUST like Cloud's!

Okay, this is like the most annoying thing about the FF7 fandom. No one knows armor terms.

It's a pauldron. PAULDRON. Please, call it a pauldron.

Sorry that annoys you I did know what it was called, though. But most people don't, so as a way to avoid any unnecessary confusion I say shoulder pad.

Hmph!

But anyway I agree, I always believed it would be armor plated with leather or such :/

&

Also, I thought the AC pauldron was metal myself, covered with a layer of leather. Such things are not unheard of, and in fact makes for a pretty good light armor.

really? I disagree with both of you. I always thought it looked too limber to be made of anything other then leather. I know it makes sense for it to have metal under it, but leather is just as much as a shield as metal, not as much, but still quite protective (if i remember right, it's why cowboy boots were made of it, because snakes couldn't bite through them) But who knows

I kinda like the Fusion Swords, honestly. It's like he took a level in badass, which offically upgrades him to ultimate badass. Also, considering his track record of losing his sword/weapon, I think it's only prudent that he pack as many weapons as he can into one. If one gets knocked out of hand, he's got another! :dave:

This!! I totally agree with. Something about seeing Cloud powerful and confident enough to wield two swords at once just makes my fangirl heart flutter.

But I don't think they weigh 50-60 pounds. Your average sword only weighs about 3-5 pounds. I think all totaled, the fusion swords would weight about 20 pounds.

Still a lot of weight to swing around, though.

I always thought it weighed more?
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/6/61/FirstTsurugiDiagram.JPG

Cloud's five foot eight, and the sword is about five feet long judging by this image. The thing that would make Cloud's First Tsurugi heavy is that it has a bunch of small swords in side. I knew someone that had a replica of the sword and it weighed about 30-40lbs and I should mention that the replica was a lot smaller than the real thing and had less pieces. So if a smaller version weighed that much Cloud's full version would be a heavier.

We have to think of width, length, and thickness of the sword. Cloud's sword is about 5 feet, maybe 4-5 inches wide and maybe an inch thick... if a bowie knife weighs about 11oz at the length of 8 inches then Cloud's sword should weigh at least 70 pounds. (at least judging from a bowie knife.)

FINALLY. I swear, that shot may not be the best of him, but it looks manly to me. I mean, Cloud is only 23, right? Shit, he's practically a kid still. He's only been able to drink legally for 2 years! I don't expect him to quite have the hard, weathered look of a matured adult quite yet. He looks plenty manly for his age and condition (because keep in mind, ridiculously fit people always look a few years younger).

I hate it when people expect 19-25 year olds to look like grungy adults. They're still quite young for crying out loud. I have a few friends that are 23 and they've yet to even grow out a full beard, for shit's sake.

I hate it when people say that Cloud doesn't look masculine. I think he's doing just fine (yum yum!) for where he's at.

*staunchly defends Cloud's masculinity unabashedly*

I am so freaking happy someone else has said this. It bothers me so dang much when people say Cloud looks feminine. How so? Cuz of his short messy hair? his stoic expressions? Just cuz Cloud doesn't have a big ugly scar on his face or some scraggly beard that doesn't mean he looks feminine. He looks mighty damn fine, if I do say so myself.

Cloud's the manliest FF main hero if you ask me.

 

[Richard B Riddick]

Who do you think is the better fighter Sephiroth... or Cloud? I suggest everyone look at the thread to get a full reasoning behind the question, but maybe everyone can answer here and there.

Sephiroth is hopped up on steroids / Jenova cells.

His success and achievements aren't due to individual skill nor competence so much as him being a genetic monster with superhuman physical attributes.

Cloud is hands down the better fighter.

Subtract the steroids and Sephiroth is likely to be average at best.

 

[The Witch]

That's a good point. Without Jenova cells would Sephiroth even be as good a fighter as he is anyway? Probably not.

COPY & PASTE
I think that Sephiroth is quite honestly the better fighter under the right circumstances. I know! I know! That sounds absurd coming from a HUGE Cloud fangirl but lemme explain.

In both versions of AC you see Cloud getting his ass handed to him left and right, yes by the good graces of God Cloud was able to dodge a few of those major attacks--but for the most part, Cloud was getting owned. Just ask yourself this, who had visibly more damage done to them? Cloud. Who had more attacks on them-self? Cloud. Who looked pretty much scratch-less? Sephiroth. Who appeared as if they weren't even trying? Sephiroth.

(and yes Nomura said he wanted to portray Sephiroth as if he wasn't trying during the fight--it was to contrast to Cloud appearing as if he was on the verge of dying--in other words, Sephiroth was supposed to come off as if he was toying with Cloud.)

However, Cloud is the type of hero that can't just whip out his Goku-power up every chance he gets. The human quality about Cloud is that to win a fight he really has to have his all involved, in other words, he has to be pushed to the very edge before he reaches his limit of power. Cloud was losing badly against Sephiroth until Sephiroth said something that triggered Cloud to unleash the power in himself that could defeat him.

In this case, Sephiroth's "what do you cherish most" line triggered Cloud to really put the hurt on the silver-haired baddie. And in ACC, it took speaking with Zack as well for Cloud to finally get that winning attack against Sephiroth. It's a combination of seeing people he cares about taken from him and knowing his friends are behind him that really gives Cloud the strength to win a fight.

And when Cloud has that strength, Sephiroth will always be the loser.

But very honestly, I think Cloud's ability to duel wield and jump around and endure tons of pain makes him a wayyy better fighter than Sephiroth.

-----------------

Adding to what I originally said, I think being a better fighter includes more than just brute strength or techniques. Cloud has been in a lot and he has endured a helluva lot more than Sephiroth ever has or will, and I think it's because of that that Cloud is the better fighter on the grander scale of things.

 

[Alak]

***WARNING: THIS POST IS CRAZY LONG. FEEL FREE TO SKIP***


Gah, sorry if I'm going to come across as anal-retentive, but I must make corrections!

- Cloud is 5'7". He's probably one of the shorter human protagonists in the franchise.
- The Buster Sword's weight is often debated, but I've seen calculated estimates ranging from 70-105 lbs. The fusion swords combined have more mass than the Buster Sword based on appearances only. We know it can't possibly be lightweight material since it's a weapon designed as a crusher rather than a slicer (i.e.- user can't risk it breaking upon repeated impacts). Any living being that falls victim to it will most likely be pulverized. My personal estimates for the fusion swords is 80-100 lbs.
- Arguing over Cloud's sword's weight is probably futile since he's strong enough to wield it like a feather.
- "Steroids" is also a useless variable in a Cloud vs. Sephiroth argument because both combatants are superhuman experiments of Shinra. They both have S-cells, mako showers, etc.
- Different people age differently, but let's remember that Cloud is a Japanese-created protagonist with obvious anime inspirations. He's going to look like a 25 year old when he's 50.


Now onto Cloud vs. Sephiroth (as sword fighters)

- No materia
- No summons
- No magic
- No entering god-mode
- Limits allowed

I'm going to try to restructure my argument here since I just rewatched Advent Children: Complete last night. I also rewatched the Reminiscence videos that came with the disc and they showed Cloud vs. Sephiroth on Nibelheim as well as at the Northern Crater.

Sephiroth is the better technical swordsman. Granted, both characters have different styles, but if you watch the fight from beginning to end, you can see that Sephiroth clearly has superior technique. He has control over his finesse and doesn't even release any audible grunt or similar indication of struggle/fatigue. Each stroke and stab resonates with precision and we can see that especially in the sequence where Sephiroth attempts finish Cloud off the first time. Another advantage about being such a technical fighter is that Sephiroth is able to plan ahead of his opponents. He can predict movements so well that he can fight off even the toughest opponents with a smile on his face. Rewatch every fight he's been in. Sephiroth has fought Angeal + Genesis (winner), Genesis (interrupted), Elfie (interrupted), and Zack (winner)... and he never broke a sweat. His level of preparation is also seen in Advent Children: Complete when he instantly recognizes Omnislash and parries the majority of the blows. When Cloud throws in the final slash, Sephiroth readily counters and shish kebabs his attacker with a smirk.

Cloud's advantage is that he's got heart. Don't call this factor stupid, because it is very real and I can attest to that. As a person to goes to the gym 4-5 days a week, I personally know how much of the battle is mental. For example, on a regular day I will probably call it quits at 205 lbs. on the bench press. When I have a lifting buddy who gives me confidence, I am able to break my perceived limits (no pun intended) and knock out 225 lbs. Cloud is the perfect example of how heart and motivation can lead to a shocking underdog victory over and over again. Omnislash didn't work? He'll just invent a new version of it! Not surprisingly, Cloud's display of impressive feats all come from his encounters with Sephiroth. In Nibelheim, he musters up the courage to attack his childhood hero after the latter burns his hometown, kills his mother, nearly kills Tifa, and nearly kills Zack. He picks up an absurdly large sword, runs it through Sephiroth (who's facing towards or away depending on the game), endures what's supposed to be a lethal wound, overpowers a superhuman (without powers), and defeats Sephiroth in this very first fight. Cloud nearly dies because of this, but he has never illustrated this type of power as a regular soldier (in neither Before Crisis nor Crisis Core).

So I think my main two points are clear now. Sephiroth is an unmatched technical fighter while Cloud is a fighter who has a big heart. Does this tell us who's better? Not exactly, but we can look at more examples to determine who's better. Based on what I've said thus far, I'll stick with my original opinion that Sephiroth is far superior than Cloud on paper. He's the one with the better fight record. He's the one who's had more formal training than pretty much anyone else in the FF7 universe. He is clearly faster than Cloud. His sword's function allows him to strike quicker than Cloud. By the time we see him in Advent Children: Complete, Sephiroth has forsaken all that was human about him and gained supernatural abilities such as flight. We also know that his cardio endurance is superior to Cloud's since the latter was struggling to stand by the time the battle was nearing to an end.

However, that's what it looks like on paper. Stats and records only affect predictions from a 3rd party perspective, but they mean nothing to the fighters in the ring. We know that while Cloud gets tossed around a lot, he has exhibited outbursts of raw power. An example in ACC was when he literally pushed Sephiroth through the concrete wall and out the building. He also displayed such raw power at Nibelheim when he overpowered Sephiroth. You can argue that Sephiroth was injured and was holding his sword with only one hand. I will counter that Cloud was responsible for said injury, and Cloud threw him while the Masamune was literally stuck inside his body. We should all be able to conclude that Cloud has the "I'll do whatever it takes" mentality. It doesn't matter if his opponent is faster, stronger, more durable, or just flat out better, Cloud will do whatever it takes to win. That reason alone is why Cloud is undefeated against Sephiroth (with or without help). When Sephiroth tried to kill him the first time, Cloud actually used his hand to stop the sword from running through his head. When Sephiroth tried to kill him the second time, Cloud met him head on and unleashed a never seen before limit break.

Seriously, just put yourself in this scenario for me. Imagine we're living in the year 1998 after FF7 came out. I give you this exact same scenario (see rules above). However, I include the fact that Sephiroth is not only able to deflect Omnislash, but he's also able counter it. Then, I throw in the tiny fact that Nomura says this is the most powerful incarnation of Sephiroth yet (in humanoid form). Would you honestly think that Cloud has a chance of winning alone? If we were in Vegas, would you put money on Cloud as a winner? Heck no! That's because we had no idea Cloud could perform a new Omnislash that he's never even tried before. Just like when Sephiroth confronted him at the end of FF7, Cloud was able to perform Omnislash (even if you didn't unlock it) and catch Sephiroth off guard. That's because Cloud has the heart to win it all. Bring on a new movie and Sephiroth will easily be able to fend off Omnislash Ver. 6, but I'm willing to bet that Cloud will still win because he'll invent yet another limit break that makes the old one obsolete.

If you're going to ask me who's the better sword fighter, my vote goes to Cloud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HusTZVx_z_E

^ Omnislash Ver. 6. When Cloud growls at you, that's when you know all hope is lost.



Btw, if you were to ask me who was the more powerful character, I'd say Sephiroth curbstomps Cloud. I'll save that discussion for later.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Sorry that annoys you I did know what it was called, though. But most people don't, so as a way to avoid any unnecessary confusion I say shoulder pad.

Hmph!

Ah, I understand. No worries. You are forgiven~

But please, spread the awareness! Call it a pauldron. For my sanity.

Please.

really? I disagree with both of you. I always thought it looked too limber to be made of anything other then leather. I know it makes sense for it to have metal under it, but leather is just as much as a shield as metal, not as much, but still quite protective (if i remember right, it's why cowboy boots were made of it, because snakes couldn't bite through them) But who knows

Limber?



I never saw it bend. It's definitely rigid and unmoving, which speaks of metal to me. Also, leather would have to be pretty thick to support the weight of that Fenrir thing without buckling or sagging, and we can tell it isn't nearly that thick. Nor does it buckle or sag.

Nah, I think it's metal.

Cloud's five foot eight, and the sword is about five feet long judging by this image. The thing that would make Cloud's First Tsurugi heavy is that it has a bunch of small swords in side. I knew someone that had a replica of the sword and it weighed about 30-40lbs and I should mention that the replica was a lot smaller than the real thing and had less pieces. So if a smaller version weighed that much Cloud's full version would be a heavier.

We have to think of width, length, and thickness of the sword. Cloud's sword is about 5 feet, maybe 4-5 inches wide and maybe an inch thick... if a bowie knife weighs about 11lbs at the length of 8 inches then Cloud's sword should weigh at least 70 pounds. (at least judging from a bowie knife.)

Hmmm, true. But remember, the swords all put together make a big ass sword that is about an inch thick on one side. If you have the base blade that is 15 lbs, and the others are somewhere between 5-8 lbs....

That's 35 to 45 lbs.

Hmm, you're right. But hey, I was close! lol

XD Eh, I always figured that ShinRa would make the swords out of some lightweight futuristic carbon steel. I rationalize shit like that so much, I make it an art.

I am so freaking happy someone else has said this. It bothers me so dang much when people say Cloud looks feminine. How so? Cuz of his short messy hair? his stoic expressions? Just cuz Cloud doesn't have a big ugly scar on his face or some scraggly beard that doesn't mean he looks feminine. He looks mighty damn fine, if I do say so myself.

Cloud's the manliest FF main hero if you ask me.

Happy to oblige, sister! I'm constantly defending Cloud from one friend of mine (who's only a year older than me) and I'm always like, "Jon, you do know you shouldn't be casting stones when your living in a glass house. The only think keeping you from looking mighty 'feminine' right now is that scraggly-ass beard your grooming."

But with a lot more tact and not so blunt lmao.

I mean, damn, people. Cut the man some slack. He's young. I think he's got some time to grow into his 'look'. Not that I'm encouraging such a thing.....

And you got that right, sister! Cloud can also smoke and drink legally too!

Stick that in your ass and smoke it, Squall! HA!

That's just crazy, not every one is going to know the terms for armor and such just because it annoys you, if people want to call it a 'Shoulder-Pad' they can call it that, hell if they wanna call it 'arm dingy' they can call it that too but don't expect everyone else to care enough to call it a Pauldron especially when we won't be bothered to research the titles of such ridiculous things -- Because someone can easily turn around and say; that's wrong and that its in fact and actually a spaulder.

I consider it my god-given right to enlighten the ignorant!

Also, it isn't a spaulder. It is a pauldron.

*Dragon Mage produces pictorial evidence!*

Here is a spaulder:

Here is a paudron:

Here is what Cloud's got:

Please note the way the pauldron curves to cover the front and back of the shoulder as well as the side and top. As a spaulder provides only the top and some limited side protection (depending on how many leaves you put under it) it is in clear evidence to me that he is wearing a pauldron.

Avast!



XD Okay, now on to some serious shtuff.

Who do you think is the better fighter Sephiroth... or Cloud?

A difficult question that requires a great deal of complexity in answering. But overall, I think the answer is Cloud.

Allow me to explain.

First off, as others have already pointed out, Sephiroth is inhumanely strong. Every enemy he's come against has gone down in just a few hits. And thanks to his inhuman speed, he's been able to move faster than his opponents without ever being hit.

We know that Sephiroth is also a war hero, has fought countless battles. But there's one thing Cloud has that he doesn't.

Experience. I know it sounds like a contradiction to what i just said, but think about it.

All of Sephiroth's enemies have been killed almost before the battle even begun. In short, Sephiroth has never had a challenge. So when he does get a challenge (Cloud) that means the only thing he can really do is rely upon his physical superiority, throw out a few moves he's picked up and overwhelm or wear down his opponent until they can't fight back then move in for the kill.

As we see in AC, this is exactly what Sephiroth does. Cloud is on the offensive the whole freaking time he's fighting Sephiroth. Only near the absolute end does it become clear that Cloud is worn out and that's when Sephiroth moves in for the kill, taking advantage of the result of Cloud's very, very, very long day. Also, Cloud probably didn't even get any sleep the night before because he shows up just in time to kill Bahamut and says Marlene is safe, which means he must've been driving that whole time.

So, Sephiroth is fighting a man that's been through at least 3 heavy battles in the last 24 hours, running on little to no sleep or rest, and Cloud STILL kicks his ass up between his ears.

And that was when Sephiroth did pretty much nothing but defend against Cloud's constant barrage of attacks. Just looking at what Sephiroth does, tactically, against a skilled opponent tells me something. Sephiroth relies on his physical superiority. Cloud has to rely on every scrap of strength, stamina, and skill he's got. That same skill is what allowed him to get around Seph's constant defensive tactic by doing something that only a skilled and veteran warrior would know.

Cloud has had to fight hard and dirty for all the experience and skill he has and that means he can improvise on the fly. Seph can't do that. He's just too used to wearing out his enemies or killing them in one hit. Overwhelming strength does not mean overwhelming capability or skill.

Also, speaking a little more metaphysically here, Cloud has a lot more reasons to fight then Seph does. Sephiroth is motivated by pure hatred and madness. Cloud has a real axe to grind, sure, but in AC we know that last push he needed was love for his friends and family. It wasn't just himself on the line anymore -- when Sephiroth mentioned destroying all the things (including people) that Cloud held dear, that was when the gloves came off.

But Sephiroth? He has nothing in his fight. He puts nothing into it. He has nothing to lose and nothing to really win. He's an empty fighter, if you will -- no motivation he actually believes in like Cloud does.

Anyone can tell you that a soldier like that is a soldier that will die, no matter how well you train him, or what equipment you give him. He's just as dead as if you shot him in the head yourself.

I guess that sounds like a pretty lame reason at the end, but when it comes to life-and-death situations, it's generally the motivation that makes some people fail and others survive the worst situations. A knife may help you survive in the wilderness, but a picture of your family will help make you want to survive, if that makes sense.

herpa derp.

 

[Alak]

You think he was on the offensive the entire time? My opinion changes from time to time, but as of last night it appeared to go back and forth to me.

- Cloud begins on offense while they're both leaping upward, but while airborne, Sephiroth counters and knocks Cloud back.

- Sephiroth goes on the offensive and does a flying strike that punches Cloud straight into a building. Sephiroth pursues while Cloud falls back and Sephiroth becomes the obvious predator. They eventually clash swords.

- Cloud goes on the offensive by pushing Sephiroth through the wall and out the building. He pursues his nemesis until he hears a noise from above.

- Sephiroth takes the offensive by laying a trap that consists of a large portion of the building falling on top of Cloud. He pursues, pushing Cloud back with blow after blow.

- Cloud counters and a variation of Blade Beam and forces Sephiroth to go on the defensive. This is short lived as Sephiroth cuts away the building again.

- Sephiroth returns on the offensive while pursuing Cloud in an aerial chase sequence. Cloud manages to push Sephiroth away, but the latter still chases him. Cloud pushes him away yet again.

- Cloud is now on the offensive while Sephiroth is cutting away structures to hinder the former's movement. With a quick swing, Sephiroth turns the tables and knocks Cloud downward. The latter manages to save himself by using his own sword as a ledge on the side of the Shinra building.

- Sephiroth takes the offense here when the top of the building collapses. I'm not sure if he was responsible for its collapse, but he sure acted like he knew it was going to happen. Cloud is forced to defend himself from both falling rubble as well as an offensive Sephiroth. The two clash until Cloud retreats to the top of the building and begins to succumb to fatigue. Sephiroth meets him there and smacks him into the pile of rubble.

- Cloud decides to take the offensive back into his hands and unveils Omnislash. He tries and fails to strike Sephiroth with it, and the latter impales him.

- Offense belongs to Sephiroth again. Sephiroth throws Cloud into the sky and slashes him a total of 8 times (Octaslash maybe?) before flinging him back down.

- Both Cloud and Sephiroth have a short moment where they lunge at one another with offense in mind. In this game of chicken, Cloud wins and Sephiroth is forced to veer off.

- With the offense regained, Cloud delivers his hidden masterpiece: Omnislash Version 6.


So there you have it, I'd have to say that both opponents had their fair share of offense and defense from beginning to end.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Alak

Okay, you got me. On semantics.

What I should have said, Sephiroth was on the defensive most of the time and Cloud was on the offensive most of the time. They both deflect each others attacks and go to better ground for fighting, and they also both instigate the next attack.

Half of what you detailed though I'm not too sure about. It sounds like your going off of ACC and I only have seen the vanilla version. :\

 

[Alak]

Only vanilla??? Nooo we have to find a way to get Advent Children: Complete! It's so much better and the story actually makes more sense this time around. I have a new life goal: get you Complete

 

[Dragon Mage]

I have a new life goal: get you Complete

Let it be known that I am 100% okay with this plan.

 

[Saints&Storms]

I consider it my god-given right to enlighten the ignorant!

You aren't enlightening the "Ignorant" as you put it, when you yourself said you did it because it annoyed you, not because those more ignorant and lesser than you needed enlightening.

Calling a Spaulder a Shoulder Pad doesn't make her ignorant, she isn't ignorant when she knows what it is and just calls it another name. Sorry, but that's just offensive.

Also, it isn't a spaulder. It is a pauldron.

*Dragon Mage produces pictorial evidence!*

Here is a spaulder:

Here is a paudron:

Here is what Cloud's got:

Please note the way the pauldron curves to cover the front and back of the shoulder as well as the side and top. As a spaulder provides only the top and some limited side protection (depending on how many leaves you put under it) it is in clear evidence to me that he is wearing a pauldron.

Avast!

Now, I guess I'll have to do some enlightening, with text edited pictorial evidence

You've cleverly cut the image off from beneath Clouds shoulder where we'd see that the spaulder doesn't cover any further, a Pauldron tends to be larger and usually covers more vast areas like the arm-pit and lower still onto the bicep area, like the picture of the Pauldron you posted with the metal dropping off lower.

Maybe Kingdom Hearts I Cloud comes pretty close to having a pauldron but FFVII and AC Cloud both have Spaulders, not a Pauldron.

And just to give a little more insight, I mean its not like I'm saying ChaCha answers is and end all be all but you know it doesn't hurt to show a liitle more; link
Its like I said, pauldrons are LARGE and spaulders are SMALL and limited to covering nearly and almost always just the shoulder as does and similar to the one single spaulder that Cloud wears in nearly all of his outfits.


But I digress.

So there you have it, I'd have to say that both opponents had their fair share of offense and defense from beginning to end.

Alak, I agree, the fight between Sephiroth and Cloud they both seemed to deliver and even amount of the defense and offense, but in my personal opinion Cloud was on the stronger defense of the two of them, even those they both delivered and even and distributed amount of the tactics, Cloud did it better is what I was saying xD

 

[Alak]

By the way, for anyone who's interested in seeing what the new retcon is for the Sephiroth vs. Cloud battle, here's a low resolution stream:

http://www.gametrailers.com/user-movie/advent-children-complete-fight/314726

The video itself doesn't include the finishing move, but refer to my older post for a high quality video of that limit break. Aside from the ending, the fight itself is essentially the same. I'd recommend watching the full movie to see how the scenes were reordered along with the additional scenes. That's how I better understood what was going on in Cloud's mind during this time of his life. Story-wise, I felt the original Advent Children was a confusing train wreck.